US House urges Japan to apologize over comfort women

[Sepiola]

The US House of Representatives has approved a resolution calling on Japan to apologize for forcing Asian women to serve Japanese soldiers in brothels during World War Two.

The House adopted the nonbinding resolution, the first of its kind, on Monday.

It says the Japanese government should formally acknowledge, apologize and accept historical responsibility in a clear manner for the suffering of the women.

The resolution's chief sponsor, Democratic Representative Mike Honda, defended the resolution as a just action needed to convey to future generations that this kind of treatment of people will never happen again.

Japan's Ambassador Ryozo Kato has said the resolution is not based on facts.

He warned that passing it would harm otherwise sound Japan-US relations.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe expressed his apologies over the suffering of the women, although he had dismissed the resolution as not reflecting facts.

In mid-June, a group of Japanese legislators, critics and others took out an opinion ad in the Washington Post denying that the Japanese military forced the women into slavery.

Democratic Representative Tom Lantos, who is House Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, called efforts to distort and deny history by people in Japan "nauseating."

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/index.html

[Sepiola]

It is a opportunity for Abe to show the true value of hanging on as PM.
He should express the refusal of the apology demand of American Congress
promptly.

[hkBattousai]

They should apologize for raped & killed women in Iraq.
US is the last country to give ethics lecture for any other.

[KirinMan]

They should apologize for raped & killed women in Iraq.
US is the last country to give ethics lecture for any other.

While that could be debated endlessly this issue is one from over 60 years ago,

Japan will wait it out as there are only a few hundred of the estimated 200,000 women left.

It is truly sad.

It is a opportunity for Abe to show the true value of hanging on as PM.
He should express the refusal of the apology demand of American Congress
promptly.

Whether he does or doesn't does not change the fact, that at least to the rest of the world, the comfort women issue will not quietly go away.

That is one issue, whether Japan chooses to acknowledge it or not, from WWII that will continue to haunt this country for many generations.

Unfortunately there will be no true peace or trust between Japan and it's neighbors until this and other issues left over from WWII are put to rest.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

US House urges Japan to apologize over comfort women

It seems all far too late in my eyes. It should have been wonderful a 50 years ago or so. Then the Japanese military who did wrong could have said that they were sorry for what happened.
It often happens that when a war is over, the enemies become partners/friends in peace time. It was then, that all war crimes should have been in the open, that would have been much better for the wrong-doers and for the victims.
But alas, many things were kept secret, and today there is a new Japanese generation who refuses to accept history. Logic because they are not guilty.

I still see it as a very big mistake that Japan was not made responsable for WWII in the same way as Germany in 1945.

[caster51]

WOW , it still gose on?:blush:

[pipokun]

Did you watch the news? I was really disapointed to see just about 10 Reps out of 435 Reps were there. I wish I could have seen more exciting discussion. And as always, few media covered it, though it is not false to write something like...
People's Daily Online, China
In a move widely viewed as a public censure of Japan's official policy on "comfort women," the US House of Representatives on Monday unanimously passed 　Yes, unanimously is a right word...

It is, however, useful to know 10 will do to pass a non-biding resolution in the US. And it is good to know a new vocabrary, voice vote.

Wondering how many members will be there for the other tax wasting resolution by Honda, thank you Japan resolution.
Maybe only two, Lantos & Honda, I am afraid.

[KirinMan]

....for the other tax wasting resolution by Honda, thank you Japan resolution.

Heck you need not worry about how American's spend their tax money I know Japan has a little itsty, bitsy, problem with it's own debt and use of tax money.

At least it shows that in America at least this issue is not going to be shoved under the carpet.

WOW , it still gose on?:blush:
Like I wrote previously it will continue until one certain country finally gets it right and admits what happened, to hell with the consequences as well.

[Han Chan]

WOW , it still gose on?:blush:

This will continue as long as there are people who try to deny the historical facts regarding the comfort issue.

Actually former PM Koizumi actually did write a letter of apology:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html

Unfortunately only very few people actually noticed that he wrote this sincere apology!

[pipokun]

At least it shows that in America at least this issue is not going to be shoved under the carpet.
Only the 10 represent the US?

Han Chan, right. The 10 guys don't know nothing.
http://fnn.fujitv.co.jp/headlines/CONN00115343.html
It is a good material to study Japanese.

[caster51]

This will continue as long as there are people who try to deny the historical facts regarding the comfort issue.

Actually former PM Koizumi actually did write a letter of apology:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html

Unfortunately only very few people actually noticed that he wrote this sincere apology!

someday, time will heal it ...........:p

[KirinMan]

Only the 10 represent the US?
Putting aside a second your sarcastic reply to Han Chan...read the following, there were more than 10, .....

A symbolic and non-binding resolution seeking an apology from Japan for the sexual exploitation of Asian women by the Japanese military during World War II was passed Monday during a vote in the House of Representatives.

More than 140 US politicians from both parties co-sponsored the non-binding resolution urging Japan to "formally acknowledge, apologize and accept historical responsibility in a clear and unequivocal manner" for the suffering of comfort women.


Taken from;
NASDAQ.com (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20070731%5cACQRTT200707310143 RTTRADERUSEQUITY_0044.htm&)

And this is an interesting blog as well.....I've highlighted the pertinent parts for you to read.
Congress has passed House Resolution 121, the "comfort women resolution," by unanimous consent — there were no nays voiced, and there was no roll call vote. According to one of my trusted correspondents, Congressman Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor, introduced the legislation by suggesting that there is no statute of limitations on apologies for these crimes and that asking for this apology is not asking too much of Japan, a friend and ally. Said Lantos: "The true strength of a nation is tested when it is forced to confront the darkest chapters in its history. Will it have the courage to face up to the truth of its past, or will it hide from those truths in the desperate and foolish hope they will fade with time?"

H.Res. 121 is an exceedingly modest piece of legislation. Non-binding, it does not request that the administration take steps to pressure Japan by linking the issue up with another bilateral issue; it appeals to Japan's good conscience to do the right thing by history, to do its duty to ensure that its children are fully aware of their country's bloody past, a burden that must be carried by every country (as discussed in this post).


Observing Japan (http://observingjapan.blogspot.com/)
It would be a noble thing for Japan to stand up and acknowledge this, it remains a blot on the honor of the people that fought and died in the war that the country refuses to admit it's faults.

someday, time will heal it ...........:p

Only when forgiveness is openly asked for AND accepted.

[caster51]

Only when forgiveness is openly asked for AND accepted.
they will die.....

I think I dont care about that whatever they want:-)
it will be ignored
it is waste of time....
I think japan had better refuse it cleary

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

WOW , it still gose on?

Caster it still goes because it wasn't stopped in 1945!!

[pipokun]

More than 140 US politicians from both parties co-sponsored the non-binding resolution urging Japan
I know it was 167, a bit more than your source. It does not matter, 140 or 167. But where on earth did they go for the very important conscience matter?

It would be a noble thing for Japan to stand up and acknowledge this
What do you think of the letter or other apology by Japan.
It is good that the US govenment has kept the document of military brothels of Japan, the US or others in WWII, but what did they do in the past? Of course, the American ones.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Caster,

You seem to be very angry and you are not polite. Please stay calm and tell us clearly why you are so angry with these poor women?

This is just the very reason why I think that it is a shame that Japan wasn't
wasn't made responsable for WWII ( and comfort women) between 1945 and 1951.
At that moment every soldier could have defended himself if found guilty of war crimes.
Now it is a younger generation that is getting frustrated by being blamed for crimes commited 65 years ago.

Maybe because I am so much older than you, and maybe because I was teenager when I became a war victim, I can overlook the generations.

Many of the girls been abused during WWII were my age at that time. It must have been so painful, so dramatic for them.

I always like to see and hear the problems in our lives from all sides. But please stay polite!

[Sukotto]

At the East Timor & Indonesian Action Network website,
there are lots of resources on this topic.
Because there are surviving victims in East Timor too.
http://etan.org/action/action3/02honda.htm

And I agree, there are many things the US needs to apologize for.
Vietnam, Nicaragua, East Timor, Iraq, Granada..., to name just a few.
In the 1990s Bill Clinton acting as president of the US, issued a formal
apology to the people of Hawai'i for overthrowing their government over
100 years ago. A bit late, but the US gov't should never have conspired to
do it in the first place.



caster51
Why don't you just claim they are liars,
instead of using derogatory language that makes you look
like a male chauvinist.



Plus these type of resolutions are passed by many different countries,
as the Japanese Diet passed some sort of resolution stating their belief
that the original trial for convicted death row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumia#International_response) was not conducted in a fair and impartial manner, and demand either a new trial or Abu-Jamal's immediate release.

[Sukotto]

What do these women have to gain?
I doubt they "hate Japan" or anything like that.


I posted the stuff on Mumia because I had just read that some nationalists call the US resolution as meddling in the affairs of Japan, but countries other countries comment on things like this all the time.
I mean, from what I understand the word "genocide" as applied to the First Nations in the US was not really discussed until the 1960s. And in Israel, some people used to deny that Palestinians used to live there before the state of Israel was formed in 194? after WW2.
Thing is, love of one's country can blind one from one's country's wrong doings.

And I refuse any more dialog with you unless you stop using the word "bitches".

no i do not support the death penalty

[caster51]

What do these women have to gain?
I doubt they "hate Japan" or anything like that.

they gain the money ....

no i do not support the death penalty

at least, we can not judge without evidence.
and the congless can not judge the history by voting

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Ouch, you seem to be full of agressive feelings towards non Japanese.
Do you know that this is very bad for your blood pressure?

[KirinMan]

i am not living in uncivilized country
You may be but your comments are from a person that is unfamiliar with civilized behaviour and courtesy towards women.

[KirinMan]

at least, we can not judge without evidence.

You know what, you repeat the same thing over and over, not only here on this thread but the "other" one as well.

I have come to the conclusion that you wouldn't know evidence even if it hit you over the head. Meaning even if a comfort woman came and sat down in front of you and told you her story, you probably would call her a liar.

Caster I am sorry but to me at least, mostly from your comments on this thread, you come across as a small man, not meaning stature, but inside, to use such language.

Caster I am sorry but I truly have pity for you.

[FrustratedDave]

??

if Japan was forced them, i think it would be shame...
they were just bitches...


I have lost a lot of respect for you.:clueless:

You could disagree with a lot more finesse than you have, very disapointing.

[Han Chan]

Maybe Jref should include bitches in the category of banned words just as it is in its singular form:

I copied this from Wikipedia:

***** is a term for the female of a canine species in general. It is also frequently used as an offensive term for a woman, taken to mean that she is malicious, spiteful, domineering, intrusive, or unpleasant. This second meaning has been in use since around 1400. When used to describe a male, it confers the meaning of "subordinate", especially to another male (as in prison). More recent variants of ***** are bitchy, ill-tempered (1925), and to *****, to complain (1930).

Sometime during the late 1990s or early 2000s, the term "*****" became more and more accepted and less offensive, and is now very rarely censored on television broadcasts or otherwise. Prior to the term's general acceptance, euphemism terms were often substituted, such as "gun" in the phrase "son of a gun". More generally the term has also acquired the meaning of something unpleasant or irksome, as in the expression "Life's a *****".

Uses

The word "*****" has long been in use to refer to a woman in contempt, as shown in an 1811 dictionary which describes ***** as "the most offensive appellation that can be given to an English woman, even more provoking than that of *****."

Meaning woman

The word ***** is sometimes used casually among hip-hop artists and followers of the culture. The term is typically used to describe a young female regardless of personality or looks. Often it is a directly negative and violent condemnation of character (referring sometimes to males as well, but especially directed at females). When used, it is sometimes meant in a more ambiguous sense, though usually it denotes ownership, therefore reinforcing cultural norms of the word as negative, especially towards the feminine. This is similar to previous feminist attempts to identify it as an epithet for a strong, self-reliant woman.

Sexual subordinacy

In the context of prison sexuality, a ***** is a lower-hierarchy prisoner, typically physically weak or vulnerable, who is dominated by more senior prisoners and forced to adopt a servile role. According to convention, these inmates are used as sexual slaves or traded as personal property. To call a male a "*****" usually suggests that he is sexually passive in this manner.

[KirinMan]

Edited to say;

Thank you to "whomever" dealt with the posts in question. I have also edited my own posts to delete the offensive words.

[pipokun]

It was by the voice vote that the resolution was passed, therefore no written record who voted it was kept.
I am looking for media coverages about the 10, but unfortunately my poor English search skill prevents it.
MSNBC shows a bit different point of views, but no follow-up coverage about the 10.
CONGRESS TAKES UP CONTROVERSIAL MEASURE
From NBC's Mike Viqueira
Many of us view the goings on here in your US House with bemusement or even disdain. The rap is that the "people's House" occupies itself with naming post offices and passing "sense of Congress" resolutions that are sops to one special interest or another and have no real impact. Everything else -- the important stuff -- gets mired in partisanship.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/30/296942.aspx
The comment from someone in Niigata is interesting to read.

Interesting enough, the Akahata, the paper of Japan Communist Party, also covered the news. JCP has been anti-US, but in this time they like the 10.

Plus these type of resolutions are passed by many different countries
Sukotto, right. I know the US passed resolutions against Chinese human right issues so many times. My concern is that some nationalistic Korean posters will claim the resolution would be the only and clear-cut evidence of this issue in years later.

It seems the thank you Japan resolution also passed, but the US greatness of political balance is not the stupid resolution (the thank you one), but the absence of majority of members.

[4321go]

In fact , as far as I know , many Comfort Women have serve for the new host of Japan - U.S.

I just saw the film about the Japanese woman of Japan in 1950 , many of them have selled the body to the U.S. army .

also you can see the film :"Memoirs of a Geisha" it also shows that many Japanese woman which so called comfort women being used by the U.S. army.

so if the US House what blame Japan , may it also punish the army of itself?

[Han Chan]

In fact , as far as I know , many Comfort Women have serve for the new host of Japan - U.S.
I just saw the film about the Japanese woman of Japan in 1950 , many of them have selled the body to the U.S. army .
also you can see the film :"Memoirs of a Geisha" it also shows that many Japanese woman which so called comfort women being used by the U.S. army.
so if the US House what blame Japan , may it also punish the army of itself?

This topic is about comfort women used/abused by the japanese army. If you want to discus the issue regarding the comfort women used by the U.S. army, please go to this thread: http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31007

"Memoirs of a Geisha" was written by an american man and can rather be seen as an american mans fantasy about geishas, :giggle:than an account of actual events!

Anyhow look at the thread and you will find plenty information about the issue.:-)

[KirinMan]

In fact , as far as I know , many Comfort Women have serve for the new host of Japan - U.S.
First I agree with Han Chan, there is another thread here discussing that issue.
I would like to clarify one thing, the term Comfort Women, is a euphemism refering to the women that serviced the Japanese Imperial Army during WWII in Asia.

euphemism The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive:

To use the term to identify other women in other situations is incorrect, unless you want to start calling all women of the willow world , throughout the world, even today, "comfort women". Which they are most definitely not, even though in some cases similarities may exist, in regards to the manner in which they have been forced into their line of work, it still is something totally different.

Let's keep the terminology accurate here as not to create an impression or misunderstanding about whom we are discussing. Thank you.

[hanbei]

About the accusation against Japan on comfort women: H.RES.121

I am angry at the arrogance of the US House of Representatives for blaming Japan on a historic issue irrelevant to US directly.
American should acknowledge their miserable history and the present atrocity in Iraq. American has no eligibility to accuse Japan for comfort women problem in the world war two, which was fabricated by false testimonies.

We Japanese blame America for slaughtering good citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki with atomic bomb. American should recognize yourself as the most atrocious rascal in the history. Your criminal deeds were not only the atomic bombings, but also enslavement of African people, blood shedding in Vietnam and Iraq, the discrimination of colored races at the present day in your own country and boosting the cycle of bloodshed with arms export in the whole world.
American are the pack of hyena, which had tore up the resources of Native American.

American have justified yourself by saying that the atomic bombs were used for sparing the lives of millions people.
Needless to say, your paradoxical excuse was the absolute bullshit added after the ending of the war.
The truth was that the atomic bombings had been conducted mainly for the experimental purpose to assess the destructive capability of the atomic bombs, and the experiment had been conducted on the ground of the racial prejudice. (Richard Rhodes. 1986. The Making of the Atomic Bomb. Simon and Schuster.)

[KirinMan]

I am angry at the arrogance of the US House of Representatives for blaming Japan on a historic issue irrelevant to US directly.
Fair enough, yet it has revelance in that the US, rightfully so or not, did not force Japan to admit to this and other atrocities committed by the Army during WWII after the US occupied Japan. Unlike what happened in Germany.

The US should have, using 20/20 hindsight here, openly pursured this and other issues then, but due to the politics of the time they were overlooked.

American should acknowledge their miserable history and the present atrocity in Iraq.
Different subject but often used by you and others here to justify the actions of the Japanese in the past, key word here is the past. We are not discussing the war in Iraq or Afganistan. Do not confuse the two please.

Also if you take a look at the politics in the US now there are probably a majority of American's that are 100% against the war. Things dont change by just snapping one's fingers and hoping that change occurs.

Wishing something to happen and having it actually occur are two different things, you can wish all you want but making it a reality is something that takes time. And BELIEVE me times are changing.

American has no eligibility to accuse Japan for comfort women problem in the world war two, which was fabricated by false testimonies.

You know I have yet to hear of anyone other than a Japanese person claim that these women were liars. There is just too much circumstantial evidence against Japan to believe otherwise.

It's kind of funny you know most Japanese people through their culture will often think of a person as guilty just by being present at the location of a crime, whether or not they were a part of it or otherwise. Yet in this situation many, not all mind you as there are many Japanese that believe these women as well. Including the former PM Koizumi.

The circumstances of their "employment" being the issue. Noone deny that there were comfort women, I find that ironic as well, that noone of you doubting Thomases, ever deny the fact that this actually occured.

We Japanese blame America for slaughtering good citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki with atomic bomb
Geez and how many good citizens of China, Burma, The Phillipines, Singapore, Korea, Great Britian, New Zealand, Canada and the USA did the Japanese slaughter? Quit hiding behind a curtain of denial, if Japan hadn't wanted to colonize all of SE Asia into it's Greater Sphere of Prosperity (?) things would have been quite a bit different. Once again 20/20 hindsight.

Of course looking back at it, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are regretable to say the least, yet dont kid yourself for one second into believing that Japan wouldn't have used the same weapons if it had the chance. Everyone pays the price during war, particularly the loosers, in this case Japan.

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 100% preventable, if you know anything about WWII you have to conceed that Japan was on the doorstep of defeat. The government could have surrendered, but choose to fight to the end. The Japanese Government at the time also is to blame for not attempting to find a peaceful solution to the end of the war.

Your criminal deeds were not only the atomic bombings, but also enslavement of African people, blood shedding in Vietnam and Iraq, the discrimination of colored races at the present day in your own country and boosting the cycle of bloodshed with arms export in the whole world.
American are the pack of hyena, which had tore up the resources of Native American.
Of course America has much in its history that is shameful, at least over time, it has taken measures to admit and correct it's wrongs. Yet for you to use these examples from history to justify the comfort women issue is ludicrous at best.

Two wrongs do not make a right, once again stop trying to justify your own country's actions by pointing fingers at someone else. It just makes your arguments sound like a child in trouble pointing at a friend and saying "well he did it too!"

American have justified yourself by saying that the atomic bombs were used for sparing the lives of millions people.
Needless to say, your paradoxical excuse was the absolute bullshit added after the ending of the war.
You must have read a different history book than I did. The war wasnt over until after the bombs were dropped not before. Dont get confused with the facts here.

Oh and whether you can admit it or not, it did save lives, both Japanese and from the US side more importantly at the time, again key word here at the time in question, more US lives were saved. If the US was truly interested in causing more pain and suffering on Japan at the time it could have easily dropped the bombs on Tokyo. Think about that for a moment, the US dropped the two bombs on strategically important military targets, that is something many naysayers conveniently forget to remember. It could have been worse. Sad as it was.

The truth was that the atomic bombings had been conducted mainly for the experimental purpose to assess the destructive capability of the atomic bombs, and the experiment had been conducted on the ground of the racial prejudice
At the time that probably was true, and at the time there was unfortunately racial discrimination throughout the entire world, even today.

And dont for one second think that Japan was blameless either in regards to racial discrimination it wasnt and isnt today as well.

There is plenty of blame to go around for all. Yet can Japan stand up and honorably admit to the faults of it's predecessors, that is one of the questions that remains today.

[hanbei]

To Obeika:
I have never heard the American apology for the atomic bombing.
You have no right to press for Japanese apology on the comfort women matter until you apology to Japan for the atomic bombings.
You blame others by shelving your own crime.
It should be called “the American arrogances.”
I predict Japan-US relationships will breakdown at dizzying speed because of US arrogances.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Obeika wrote: Fair enough, yet it has revelance in that the US, rightfully so or not, did not force Japan to admit to this and other atrocities committed by the Army during WWII after the US occupied Japan. Unlike what happened in Germany.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, yes yes! You are right, it all comes far too late. It should have all been done between 1945 and 1949. Japan started a war, just like Germany, so I have never really understood why there should have been such a difference in treatment after WWII. Japan was poor and bombed, that is a fact.
But have you seen Germany after the war? I did, in 1948! The Germans were also poor and bombed all over their country. Thousands of German women and girls were raped by the Russians.
I am still angry about the difference the world has made between Germany and Japan when World War Two was over.
Japan: apologizes, compensations or whatever?? It all comes far too late, the words sound hollow, meaningless.

Japan lost their war in many ways!

[KirinMan]

I have never heard the American apology for the atomic bombing.
Well then let me take your logic, one step further, Japan has to apologize for Pearl Harbor, Nanking, the invasion/annexation of Korea, China, Singapore, Taiwan and the Phillipines, basically for starting the war in the Pacific before the US apologizes for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.:okashii:

Do you see where the finger pointing ends, nowhere.

Btw the US need not apologize for winning, it isnt going to happen, and you know very well why. Did you even read my reply to you?

So if I take your logic one step further than if, for arguments only now, the US did apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki then the Japanese government will finally admit to the part it played in the coercion of the "comfort women"?

You know if you actually read what you wrote you are admitting that Japan is in fact guilty of the issues surrounding the comfort women.

You argue that one has to be apologized for before the other, dont you see the flaws in your logic?

Japan: apologizes, compensations or whatever?? It all comes far too late, the words sound hollow, meaningless.
Yet to the women involved in this issue, time does not heal the wounds that they suffered. I dont think any woman truly forgets being raped and abused as these women were.

Better yet would be an official recognition that this happened and that future generations of people all around the world not least Japan keep this as a part of history education in school's.

There is no need for animosity if openess and honesty is acheived. This wound will never heal, even after we are all dead and gone from here, purely because there will be those that will never allow it to be forgotten.

Japan lost their war in many ways
And still is today, and will for the future until these and other issues are finally settled.
It is sad.

[hanbei]

To Obeika:
The atomic bombings can’t compare with other offenses.
They are special, the crimes to the whole humankind, and a Christian may say “the sin against God,” and still US government and you justify them.

[KirinMan]

To Obeika:
The atomic bombings can’t compare with other offenses.
They are special, the crimes to the whole humankind, and a Christian may say “the sin against God,” and still US government and you justify them.
Then you are way off topic and should quit commenting about this issue on this thread. And btw I dont agree with you on this one either from the point of history that they happened. AND it has nothing to do with religion. Your God and my God are probably two very different dieties.

If you want to talk about crimes against humanity start your own thread and post your views there instead of on this thread.

Last edited to add; if you want to discuss the comfort women issue there is another thread here directly related to that issue do it there. If you want to discuss the house resolution some more great.

Otherwise I have no other comments to make to you on this thread. In my opinion you went one step too far in trying to talk about it from a "religious" point of view. You lost me there, bye!

[hanbei]

To Obeika:
There exist relations between comfort women and atomic bombings.
You have no right to press for Japanese apology on the comfort women matter until you apology to Japan for the atomic bombings.
You should not blame others by shelving your own crimes.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Yesterday on the Dutch TV:

A Dutch lady of 82 years old, is one of the Dutch women who were abused in Semarang, Indonesia, as comfort women said the following;

"Those Japanese military who abused me during WWII have spoiled my life forever and it is far too late to apolize now."
I know this lady quite well, I also have her book.

Once my generation has left this world, there will be no longer eyewitnesses who can tell exactly what happened during WWII in Asia.

For my generation everything comes too late, also those meaningless apologizes, because there is no feeling behind those words. Empty phrases
that is what they are and the Japanese government knows that very well.

But if a Japanese lady or man tells me that she/he is sorry for what happened to my generation, or my family, I shal aways be pleased and happy and most certainly shake hands. Luckily for me, I have met several very nice Japanese people in my life. This is how it should be, that is real life.

[pipokun]

Elizabeth van Kampen, did the woman also say that the brothel was quickly closed soon after higher ranked officials, of course Japanese ones, came to know it before the end of the war and the military officers were persecuted by the post-war trials?

[caster51]

At the least just to let you know, I personally find your insensitivety to the plight of these women that were abused and raped by the Japanese Imperial Army,
so again, where is an evidence?:blush:
Please use your brains a little more.
http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/phistory/89000/20070731118585022617021600.jpg
he is an honest man......
http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20040903000051

Sexual Assault Against Women Held by U.S. Forces

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=478

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hi Popokun,

The lady who spoke yesterday on TV, doesn't have to tell us such, because that is well known in Holland. The brothel was closed after 2½ month since that was ordered from higher officers in Japan in those days.

I know that you tell me that each time, but that does not change the fact that an innocent girls were daily raped by Japanese officers.
What Japan did with with those quilty officers is of course a matter that only concerns Japan.

Well, this is exactly why I don't believe in Japanese apologizes, you don't feel sorry for the Dutch lady who was raped as a young girl, but you do feel sorry for the Japanese officers who committed this crime.

Anyhow this lady is not waiting for apologizes from Japan, she knows just as I know that they don't mean anything at all. Besides a Japanese government will never apologize for the war crimes commited during WWII. Only a Japanese Minister might apologize but only as an individual and in those cases I believe that some of your Ministers were absolutely honest.

Not America, not any other country will be able to tell Japan that it is time to apologize towards all those poor "Comfort women".

Japanese goverments? "It didn't happen, just hallucinations, phantasy from all those women."

That is why that huge advertisement appeared in the Washington Post, it was one big denying, Japan told the world a "Not guilty!!" 62 years after World War Two.

Not only sad, but also a pity and a loss of face.

[KirinMan]

Japanese goverments? "It didn't happen, just hallucinations, phantasy from all those women."



Elizabeth, people like Caster, Pipokun, Hanbei and a few others, live in a different world and unfortunately are unwilling to accept the facts that the rest of the civilized world view as true.

No matter what we say or write here there really isnt anything that we can say that will change how they feel or think.

They will continue to live in a cloud of doubt and desperation about what their country is and has been found guilty of in the world.

No matter how many red herrings they attempt to throw our way, or how many different "stories" that they create to attempt to draw attention away from the facts, there will always be people like you and me, among a host of others will never let this issue die.

The "comfort women" will never go away, their legacy to history will never be forgotten, and as long as Japan continues to deny it's history nothing will change, no matter how much these people try to twist history to their own conclusion.

[EmperorHirohito]

On the subject of apologies I have to ask this one question.

Did Japan ever apologise to Great Britain over the deaths of the captured British forces that held in camps in Burma and such places, and were used as slave labour in the building of the Burma railway.

And sorry for being slightly off topic, but Im just curious, thats all.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Thank you Obeika,

I am very grateful for your answer. It is wonderful to know that young people like you and many other here on this Forum do understand so well what happened to my generation and my parents generation.
True history is very important for all of us, we all learn from it.

Twisted history is good for the wastepaperbasket.

[pipokun]

On the subject of apologies I have to ask this one question.
Did Japan ever apologise to Great Britain over the deaths of the captured British forces that held in camps in Burma and such places, and were used as slave labour in the building of the Burma railway.
And sorry for being slightly off topic, but Im just curious, thats all.

Do you know many solders, Japanese, Taiwanese or Korean, were persecuted by the war-criminal trials?　And in 1960, your country and Japan agreed the reparation treaty. Of course, Japan also paid money to British colonies. Tell me how much money your govenment paid to your colonies like Japan paid to Korea.
Japan Foundation has invited many ex-British solders to Japan and explained the above. They did not know the persecution.

After the Japan's surrender, your army requested Japanese women to treat British soldiers.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

EmperorHirohito,

That is a very good question. I don't really know, but I quess they didn't.

Maybe nor Great Britain nort the Netherlands did ask Japan for a apology.
Don't forget that our countries were very busy with Germany because that was European business. Japan was more American busines.

Maybe we are all beginning to wake up right now, because Japan gets in the news lately in a more unpleasant way than before. Not so?

Only we must not forget that there are also many fine Japanese.

[pipokun]

Hi Popokun,
The lady who spoke yesterday on TV, doesn't have to tell us such, because that is well known in Holland. The brothel was closed after 2ｽ month since that was ordered from higher officers in Japan in those days...

Really? I heard that the Dutch colony issue is the extremely touchy issue in your country even now.
I don't know why the independence day in Indonesia is still controversial in your country. What did your country did to Indonesian people?

And of course, Japan paid reparation to your country.

[pipokun]

Elizabeth, people like Caster, Pipokun, Hanbei and a few others, live in a different world and unfortunately are unwilling to accept the facts that the rest of the civilized world view as true.


It was just the military brothel and nobody denys the confort woman.
And you should also face the fact that the great political balance showed just 10 members were there.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun,

Do you know how much Germany has paid for its war crimes?
Do you know how much Germany is still paying today towards their victims in pensions every month again.

Question: Were the British soldiers also in Japan? Were the Japanese girls sent to England?
I ask this, because you wrote: After Japan's surrender, your army requested Japanese women to treat British soldiers.

Maybe you mean the British and Australians during the Trial? These countries didn't occupy Japan. British and Australian soldiers, POWs wanted only one thing and that was going HOME as soon as possible. At least as far as I know.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun wrote:
Really? I heard that the Dutch colony issue is the extremely touchy issue in your country even now.
I don't know why the independence day in Indonesia is still controversial in your country. What did your country did to Indonesian people?

And of course, Japan paid reparation to your country.
---------------------------------------------------

And of course the Dutch never had a KEMPEITAI !!

And of course The Netherlands has openly accepted the Independence day, the 17th of August 1945. Our then foreign Minister Mr. Ben Bot did this in name of the Dutch government on the 17th of August in 2005 while he went celebrating the Indonesian Independece together with the Indonesians.

[pipokun]

Pipokun,
Do you know how much Germany has paid for its war crimes?
Do you know how much Germany is still paying today towards their victims in pensions every month again.
Question: Were the British soldiers also in Japan? Were the Japanese girls sent to England?
I ask this, because you wrote: After Japan's surrender, your army requested Japanese women to treat British soldiers.
Maybe you mean the British and Australians during the Trial? These countries didn't occupy Japan. British and Australian soldiers, POWs wanted only one thing and that was going HOME as soon as possible. At least as far as I know.

Do you know no Japanese claim their asset in China, Taiwan, Korea or wherever?
Look at the frustration in Poland. Did German pay reparation to Dutch or Polish people? Tell me how much your Dutch govenement got money from Germany and Japan, and tell me how much reparation your govenment paid to Indonesia.

They just asked Japanese women for the brothel.

[Sukotto]

To Obeika:
The atomic bombings can’t compare with other offenses.
They are special, the crimes to the whole humankind, and a Christian may say “the sin against God,” and still US government and you justify them.



Hmm,

Would the holocaust against Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals, Roma, etc... by the Nazis, would that be comparable to the atomic bombings?

Both are crimes against humanity.

Rape as a tool of war was FINALLY acknowledged as a war crime and/or crime against humanity just a few years ago. Dang, we've not come very far, have we?

I believe they are comparable.

Both are war crimes.

[Sukotto]

It was just the military brothel and nobody denys the confort woman.
And you should also face the fact that the great political balance showed just 10 members were there.


This was just a press conference of something like that.
As noted else where, there were some 160 or so congress members who
voted for it.

This page below lists, if not all the voters, certainly those that co-sponsored it to better ensure it got a vote on the floor of the congress
http://etan.org/action/action3/02honda.htm

[Sukotto]

What did your country did to Indonesian people?


The simple answer is they denied them their right of self-determination.

Like a dictatorship, with empire there is no such thing as a benevolent one.
History has shown time and again that there is no honor in empire.
Unfortunately we have some countries today trying to repeat this.



3 in a row, sorry about that

[junjunforever]

Do you know no Japanese claim their asset in China, Taiwan, Korea or wherever?
Look at the frustration in Poland. Did German pay reparation to Dutch or Polish people? Tell me how much your Dutch govenement got money from Germany and Japan, and tell me how much reparation your govenment paid to Indonesia.
They just asked Japanese women for the brothel.

well, we dont see german chancellor say "THere is no evidence of Germans killing Polish citizens", neither do we hear the dutch politicians say "the Dutch have done nothing wrong in Indonesia." For what i know, most europeans have accepted and apologized for their mistakes, and they do not run a ad on american papers saying "Dutch and Germans are not responsible for war crimes."

Jews dont really care about monetary compensations. They're already rich anyway. But they like the fact that in German history books, it talks about the war atrocities and they are condemned. Nazisim is banned in Germany, and the nazy symbol is illegal as well.

Now compare that to japan. Abe had put pressure on NHK to not air any japanese war crime stories, revised the history books to play down the japanese role in the war crime, and they elect a semi-nazi prime minister, and a racist mayor for its capital.

THere is a reason why the neighbors of Germany likes germany and do not bring up WWII. And ther eis a reason why the neighbors of japan keep bringing up the issue.

Because japanese apology is in words only and not in action. That is not a true apology.

About the accusation against Japan on comfort women: H.RES.121

I am angry at the arrogance of the US House of Representatives for blaming Japan on a historic issue irrelevant to US directly.
American should acknowledge their miserable history and the present atrocity in Iraq. American has no eligibility to accuse Japan for comfort women problem in the world war two, which was fabricated by false testimonies.

We Japanese blame America for slaughtering good citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki with atomic bomb. American should recognize yourself as the most atrocious rascal in the history. Your criminal deeds were not only the atomic bombings, but also enslavement of African people, blood shedding in Vietnam and Iraq, the discrimination of colored races at the present day in your own country and boosting the cycle of bloodshed with arms export in the whole world.
American are the pack of hyena, which had tore up the resources of Native American.

American have justified yourself by saying that the atomic bombs were used for sparing the lives of millions people.
Needless to say, your paradoxical excuse was the absolute bullshit added after the ending of the war.
The truth was that the atomic bombings had been conducted mainly for the experimental purpose to assess the destructive capability of the atomic bombs, and the experiment had been conducted on the ground of the racial prejudice. (Richard Rhodes. 1986. The Making of the Atomic Bomb. Simon and Schuster.)

first of all, the fact that america used the Abomb is criticzable... by everyone BUT the japanese and its politicianswho dont accept their wrong doings.

What crime america has done to japan, japan has done to its neighbors... and only more gruesomely.

[KirinMan]

Has anyone actually read the House Resolution itself?

Here is a portion of the bill that was passed taken from the following link;
House Resolution 121 (http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:2:./temp/~c1104ihA4N::)

Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the Government of Japan--

(1) should formally acknowledge, apologize, and accept historical responsibility in a clear and unequivocal manner for its Imperial Armed Forces' coercion of young women into sexual slavery, known to the world as `comfort women', during its colonial and wartime occupation of Asia and the Pacific Islands from the 1930s through the duration of World War II;

(2) would help to resolve recurring questions about the sincerity and status of prior statements if the Prime Minister of Japan were to make such an apology as a public statement in his official capacity;

(3) should clearly and publicly refute any claims that the sexual enslavement and trafficking of the `comfort women' for the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces never occurred; and

(4) should educate current and future generations about this horrible crime while following the recommendations of the international community with respect to the `comfort women'.
Food for thought.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Obeika,

Thank you for sending us a portion of the House Resolution 121.

This is really good, I have forwarded it to many friends here in Holland and overseas. It should have been in our Dutch papers from the moment it was published in America, but I haven't seen it.

[KirinMan]

Obeika,
Thank you for sending us a portion of the House Resolution 121.
This is really good, I have forwarded it to many friends here in Holland and overseas. It should have been in our Dutch papers from the moment it was published in America, but I haven't seen it.

Here is the entire resolution from the link above, unfortunately the link expired and one would have to search the site to find it so I copied the bill here in it's entirety.


H. Res. 121

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

July 30, 2007.
Whereas the Government of Japan, during its colonial and wartime occupation of Asia and the Pacific Islands from the 1930s through the duration of World War II, officially commissioned the acquisition of young women for the sole purpose of sexual servitude to its Imperial Armed Forces, who became known to the world as ianfu or `comfort women';

Whereas the `comfort women' system of forced military prostitution by the Government of Japan, considered unprecedented in its cruelty and magnitude, included gang rape, forced abortions, humiliation, and sexual violence resulting in mutilation, death, or eventual suicide in one of the largest cases of human trafficking in the 20th century;

Whereas some new textbooks used in Japanese schools seek to downplay the `comfort women' tragedy and other Japanese war crimes during World War II;

Whereas Japanese public and private officials have recently expressed a desire to dilute or rescind the 1993 statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono on the `comfort women', which expressed the Government's sincere apologies and remorse for their ordeal;

Whereas the Government of Japan did sign the 1921 International Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Women and Children and supported the 2000 United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 on Women, Peace, and Security which recognized the unique impact on women of armed conflict;

Whereas the House of Representatives commends Japan's efforts to promote human security, human rights, democratic values, and rule of law, as well as for being a supporter of Security Council Resolution 1325;

Whereas the United States-Japan alliance is the cornerstone of United States security interests in Asia and the Pacific and is fundamental to regional stability and prosperity;

Whereas, despite the changes in the post-cold war strategic landscape, the United States-Japan alliance continues to be based on shared vital interests and values in the Asia-Pacific region, including the preservation and promotion of political and economic freedoms, support for human rights and democratic institutions, and the securing of prosperity for the people of both countries and the international community;

Whereas the House of Representatives commends those Japanese officials and private citizens whose hard work and compassion resulted in the establishment in 1995 of Japan's private Asian Women's Fund;

Whereas the Asian Women's Fund has raised $5,700,000 to extend `atonement' from the Japanese people to the comfort women; and

Whereas the mandate of the Asian Women's Fund, a government-initiated and largely government-funded private foundation whose purpose was the carrying out of programs and projects with the aim of atonement for the maltreatment and suffering of the `comfort women', came to an end on March 31, 2007, and the Fund has been disbanded as of that date: Now, therefore, be it


Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the Government of Japan--

(1) should formally acknowledge, apologize, and accept historical responsibility in a clear and unequivocal manner for its Imperial Armed Forces' coercion of young women into sexual slavery, known to the world as `comfort women', during its colonial and wartime occupation of Asia and the Pacific Islands from the 1930s through the duration of World War II;

(2) would help to resolve recurring questions about the sincerity and status of prior statements if the Prime Minister of Japan were to make such an apology as a public statement in his official capacity;

(3) should clearly and publicly refute any claims that the sexual enslavement and trafficking of the `comfort women' for the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces never occurred; and

(4) should educate current and future generations about this horrible crime while following the recommendations of the international community with respect to the `comfort women'.
Attest:

[pipokun]

Obeika, it was just by voice vote. And only 10 members were there.

junjunforever, just read the theads by Elizabeth van Kampen. She still feels nostalgia for their former colony, though I am fully aware of what Japan did to the Dutch people considering the most execution rate among the Allied.
Just imagine if a Japanese would open a site "good old days in Korea".

Elizabeth van Kampen, correct me if I am wrong, do you still commemorate on the former colony in your country?

[KirinMan]

Obeika, it was just by voice vote. And only 10 members were there.

Evidently you fail to understand the US system here, the vote passed without a roll call meaning that there were no dissenting votes, plus there were well over 150 signatories to the resolution.

Whether there were 10, 100 500 or 1 the bill passed and became a part of the official record of the US house of representatives.

You can keep on blabbing on about "only 10" but until you understand the system it matters nothing.

[4321go]

Obeika, it was just by voice vote. And only 10 members were there.
junjunforever, just read the theads by Elizabeth van Kampen. She still feels nostalgia for their former colony, though I am fully aware of what Japan did to the Dutch people considering the most execution rate among the Allied.
Just imagine if a Japanese would open a site "good old days in Korea".
Elizabeth van Kampen, correct me if I am wrong, do you still commemorate on the former colony in your country?

no ,I think the last invader of Korea is Japan .however,Dutch is not the last invader of Indonesia

[pipokun]

OK, where did the rest 157 members go? And why was it by voice vote which doesn't keep any record who voted it.
It was nothing but the political balance, wasn't it?

I am just scared that few media covered the situation, just 10.
It is the same if you get a different poll on the US base here when you ask anti-US activists or other Japanese.

4321go, when do you think was the independence day of Indonesia?
When you think it was soon after Japan was surrendered like Indonesian people think, the last invader was not Japan.

[junjunforever]

Obeika, it was just by voice vote. And only 10 members were there.
junjunforever, just read the theads by Elizabeth van Kampen. She still feels nostalgia for their former colony, though I am fully aware of what Japan did to the Dutch people considering the most execution rate among the Allied.
Just imagine if a Japanese would open a site "good old days in Korea".
Elizabeth van Kampen, correct me if I am wrong, do you still commemorate on the former colony in your country?
Actually, if japanese person said "although i know japan did much even in east asia, i really missed the days our family was in korea/china. The people that we encountered were wonderful" there would be no problem. Although ive not read such thread, i am sure this is where her opinion is, as ive seen her ackowledge many times what the dutch did to indonesians.

[Winger]

no ,I think the last invader of Korea is Japan .however,Dutch is not the last invader of Indonesia

Hmm, which country is now trying to grab the whole economy of north korea, and to rewrite the history of koguryo in its favour?

Evidently you fail to understand the US system here, the vote passed without a roll call meaning that there were no dissenting votes, plus there were well over 150 signatories to the resolution.
Whether there were 10, 100 500 or 1 the bill passed and became a part of the official record of the US house of representatives.
You can keep on blabbing on about "only 10" but until you understand the system it matters nothing.

Obeika, what has motivated you to post this resolution riddled with rubbish accusations against our country? Sorry to bother you but im a newcomer

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun,

Not today but one of these days I will start a thread about Japan-former D.E.I- Indonesia.
For this moment I like to tell what you already know, Japan cam e to Indonesia for the OIL. It was only when the Japanese lost the war that Sukarno got his Indepence from Tokyo.
The Independence day the 17th of August 1945.

And since this thread is about COMFORT WOMEN, Japan also abused quite some Indonesian girls. Japan sent many Romushas, (Indonesians who had to work for the Japanese outside Indonesia) to Pakan Baru on the island Sumatra and to the Burma Railway. It was Sukarno to sent these poor men to hell in order to stay friends with Japan!!

The former D.E.I. was an open country, that is to say that everyone could start a business overthere. Ha ha, that is why there were so many Japanese spies in the former D.E.I.

Someother time I will tell you why love Indonesia and the Indonesians.

[Winger]

THere is a reason why the neighbors of Germany likes germany and do not bring up WWII. And ther eis a reason why the neighbors of japan keep bringing up the issue.
Because japanese apology is in words only and not in action. That is not a true apology.


The Polish did bring up WWII at the European Summit in June didnt it? They said their vote should be increased disproportionately to their population since many Polish had been killed by the Germans in WWII.

The reason Japans neighbours keep bringing up the issue is because anti-Japan is their regimes' raison d'etre. Take a look at the history textbooks used in China and Korea for example; they are totally one-sided, of course with some truth but also with a lot of lies, and deliberately edited to nurture hatred towards Japan in many generations to come. No wonder even if they keep bringing up the issue. Another reason could be that they tend to look down upon Japan as being morally inferior and barbaristic for historical reasons, but the fact now is that that Japan is still more advanced than they are. The situation is different in Western Europe where the countries' stage of development is roughly the same.

And for apology in action, Japan concluded the basic treaty with Korea in 1965 and extended huge money to them for Japan at that time, in addition to renouncing all assets in Korea belonging to the Japanese. Unlike Germany, Japan paid the money to the state of Korea upon Korean Government's request. Has any other country extended such generosity towards former part of its own or its former colony? But the shame is that this fact was hidden by the Korean government against Korean people until recently.

And unlike Germany again, Japan paid war compensation to the countries it occupied at WWII, including Indonesia and the Philippines. Correct me if i am wrong, but I understand that Germany compensated for holocaust but not for WWII itself. You better not believe China and Korea's claims against Japan literally.

[Han Chan]

Obeika, what has motivated you to post this resolution riddled with rubbish accusations against our country? Sorry to bother you but im a newcomer
Strange question. This thread is about that very resolution, and it is therefore only logic that someone - in this case Obeika - gives us all an opportunity to actually read the text.

[pipokun]

I have yet to find any media coverage reporting the 10 sheriff situation.
No matter how much Japanese prime ministers apologise, it is impossible for both parties, Japan and Korea, to reconcile each others, for the territorial dispute is between the two.
Japan just asks Korea to go to the Hague to solve the issuse peacefully, though Korea has tried to keep silent on the matter, "no dispute between the two. But their effort ruins in front of nationalistic people. The louder they become, the more aparent it is that the dispute is there.
If Honda and the great 10 guys were the mediator, I would find the politics great, though I still like the great political balance of the politicians, the absense of the majority.

Elizabeth van Kampen, I reply you in your thread.
Dutch East Indies - Japan- Indonesia (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31972)
Edit: For Elizabeth van Kampen

[Han Chan]

The Polish did bring up WWII at the European Summit in June didnt it? They said their vote should be increased disproportionately to their population since many Polish had been killed by the Germans in WWII.

It is thrue that the polish PM came up with this as part of his negotiation tactics. However, it backfired because all other countries in EU and much of his own population were outraged.

In Europe, we are managing very well to live in the present. However, we are constantly on the look out for populistic and nationalistic politicians who try to stir up animosity against their neighbors. One of the keys to successful integration in EU is the fact that frank aknowledgement of wrongdooing in the past, and that most politicians have refrained from trying to exploit the posibility of gaining short term popularity points by blame games. One of the preconditions for this state of affairs have been Germanys aknowledgement of ist past wrongdooings.

In the former Yugoslavia we had an example of what happens when nationalistic politicians exploits and distorts the historical facts in order to gain support. Most europeans are by now "allergic" to propoganda. Maybe this is the reason why we are concerned when some politicians in Japan - a country most of us love - try to avoid the unpleasant truth about the past - in this connection the issue of "comfort women".

[JerseyBoy]

I know I am being politically insensitive. But, this issue which happened almost half a century ago should rest in history. I don't vote in Japan till to this day. But, if the Japanese government started talking about handing out the tax payer money for this, I would cast my first vote against it.

By the way, who cares about what US Congress does? It is known for pork-barrel special interest infested entity with an abysmal public opinion rating.

[Han Chan]

I know I am being politically insensitive. But, this issue which happened almost half a century ago should rest in history.
One of the reasons why this issue keeps on beeing discussed is that some japanese are trying to rewrite the history books: "Whereas some new textbooks used in Japanese schools seek to downplay the 'comfort women' tragedy and other Japanese war crimes during World War II".

If only the present leaders would demonstrate real leadership by clearly aknowledging the 'comfort women' issue, the issue could become part of the past and not the present.

By trying to deny the past, it keeps on beeing part of the present.

[pipokun]

They were just the military brothel, and nobody denys it.

China
South Korea

They are not regional players anymore. I don't know which is which, but they should play a rolel like France or the UK.
Not here, but it is interesting that I see some young Koreans claim they are Italian in East Asia.

[hanbei]

One of the reasons why this issue keeps on beeing discussed is that some japanese are trying to rewrite the history books: "Whereas some new textbooks used in Japanese schools seek to downplay the 'comfort women' tragedy and other Japanese war crimes during World War II".
If only the present leaders would demonstrate real leadership by clearly aknowledging the 'comfort women' issue, the issue could become part of the past and not the present.
By trying to deny the past, it keeps on beeing part of the present.

The truth is that China and Korea had “created” fictional histories for justification of their legitimateness.
Korea’s real history was a miserable one as a tributary state of China for thousand years and then as a Japanese colony for several decades.
This fact was too humiliating for Korean people. Therefore, they had created a splendid history for curing their injured pride.
The communist regime of present China used Japanese war crimes to give legitimacy to their rule. Their modern history had been colored with heroic battles against Japanese atrocities that had been extremely exaggerated.

For both China and Korea, Japanese history books were too embarrassing because they described a true history, which was inconsistent with their forged histories.
Therefore, China and Korea have attacked Japanese history books incessantly. Japan had not retorted because she had been paralyzed for a long time with after effects of WW2.
As a result, the whole world had accepted their lie.

Needless to say, the all testimonies with ex-whores were fabricated stories urged by Japanese left, Chinese and Korean.
There are rumors the ex-whores had stocked up a big savings owing to their testimonies.
Mr. Honda, a US congress member who has led the comfort women issue, reportedly received a large sum of money from a Chinese group established for anti-Japanese movements in US.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Mr. Honda, a US congress member who has led the comfort women issue, reportedly received a large sum of money from a Chinese group established for anti-Japanese movements in US.[/QUOT

To Hanbei

Which Chinese group do you mean? You sound like late Mr. Stalin.

[hanbei]

To Hanbei
Which Chinese group do you mean? You sound like late Mr. Stalin.
"Global Alliance for Preserving the History of WWII in Asia"
I know the URL of this group, but I couldn't post it because of the forum rule.
This is the cue: "global-alliance.net"

Why am I like late Mr. Stalin?

[Winger]

It is thrue that the polish PM came up with this as part of his negotiation tactics. However, it backfired because all other countries in EU and much of his own population were outraged.
In Europe, we are managing very well to live in the present. However, we are constantly on the look out for populistic and nationalistic politicians who try to stir up animosity against their neighbors. One of the keys to successful integration in EU is the fact that frank aknowledgement of wrongdooing in the past, and that most politicians have refrained from trying to exploit the posibility of gaining short term popularity points by blame games. One of the preconditions for this state of affairs have been Germanys aknowledgement of ist past wrongdooings.
In the former Yugoslavia we had an example of what happens when nationalistic politicians exploits and distorts the historical facts in order to gain support. Most europeans are by now "allergic" to propoganda. Maybe this is the reason why we are concerned when some politicians in Japan - a country most of us love - try to avoid the unpleasant truth about the past - in this connection the issue of "comfort women".

Whether it backfired or not, the Polish did bring up the issue didnt they? That is my point.

Unlike Europeans, the Chinese and the Japanese had not fought against each other for more than 300 years until WWII. In fact, until the late 19th century when the Westerners came to the Far East for imperialistic invasions, the people there used to live rather peacefully, or simply ignore each other. The reason why the Europeans are so sensitive about nationalism is as simple as that, thats because of the extent to which they have killed each other, and not because they are at a moral high ground I think. This is not my original argument, but the opinion of an english friend of mine actually.

By the way your view is slightly (to say the least) biased against the Japanese. There are much, much more "populistic and nationalistic politicians who try to stir up animosity against their neighbors" in the peninsula or the continent than in Japan. It is them, eg South Korean Presidents or Chinese Communist leaders, who exploit and distort the historical facts in order to gain (political) support or deflect domestic criticism. I recommend that you check with a fresh pair of eyes which side have been doing propoganda things.

Finally, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by saying "the unpleasant truth about the past - in this connection the issue of "comfort women?"" Abe, like his predecessors, did acknowledge their existence didnt he? He did not deny the fact that the military had been involved in setting up brothels. He just said that the military had never forced the women to serve there by kidnapping them by itself. As argued time and again, there is no evidence whatsoever proving such a claim, and the Korean women claiming they are victims have changed their words so often that they cannot be believed. If you dare to say "facts" or "truth", check and verify the claims by yourself and do not just believe what the one side is saying.

[Winger]

Strange question. This thread is about that very resolution, and it is therefore only logic that someone - in this case Obeika - gives us all an opportunity to actually read the text.

Please read between the lines. It is obvious that Obeika supports the resolution, which is unbelievable to me as a Japanese since the resolution is full of untruth.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

"Global Alliance for Preserving the History of WWII in Asia"
http://www.global-alliance.net/related.html
In short, the House of Representatives is an organization under Chinese Communist Party.


http://www.sankei.co.jp/kokusai/usa/070803/usa070803000.htm

[Winger]

They were just the military brothel, and nobody denys it.
China
South Korea
They are not regional players anymore. I don't know which is which, but they should play a rolel like France or the UK.
Not here, but it is interesting that I see some young Koreans claim they are Italian in East Asia.

Oh, Italians this time. they used to say they are the French. Give me a break.

Well done, hanbei, I wholeheartedly support your argument.

"Global Alliance for Preserving the History of WWII in Asia"

In short, the House of Representatives is an organization under Chinese Communist Party.
Many many thanks. I have been surfing on the web for quite some time!

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

hanbei, thank you.

Yes I know that group in Canada.

But I have really respect for Mr.Hoda, he is from Japanese origine, yet he defends the "Comfort Women", that takes some courage.

Oh Stalin did not trust anyone. Why on earth should Canadians pay an American Mr.Honda. Americans aren't anti-Japan
The Chinese Group in Canada is very serious, they won't tell us lies and they do a lot of research work about the comfort women. I trust them.

There are also many very serious and very honest Japanese historians!
I trust them also.

I love to see the whole Pacific War story told by several historians from all the countries involved by that war, sitting around the table discussing all the events, crimes and mistakes. Not by denying crimes and mistakes but admitting them is telling true history.

Making mistakes is very human, but not learning from our mistakes, THAT really is making a big mistake.

[hanbei]

hanbei, thank you.
Yes I know that group in Canada.
But I have really respect for Mr.Hoda, he is from Japanese origine, yet he defends the "Comfort Women", that takes some courage.
Oh Stalin did not trust anyone. Why on earth should Canadians pay an American Mr.Honda. Americans aren't anti-Japan

There are a wide variety of people in the world including Japanese and Japanese-American.
Plenty of communist politicians and historians exist in Japan.
They accuse Japanese war crimes conspiring with Chinese and Korean. I can’t understand their mentality. Parts of them are naturalized immigrants from Korea who inherited the hatred for Japan from ancestors.

Why are you respect Mr. Honda?

I am not like Stalin because I trust the majority of Japanese people.

Chinese-Canadian may pay all US congress members who are anti-Japan.

There are a lot of Chinese- and Korean-American who are anti-Japan.

I think you are too one-sided for understanding complicated world political affairs. You should compare the opposite opinions and analyze them. It may be tedious and uncertain, but absolutely required procedure for getting some conclusions.

[KirinMan]

Please read between the lines. It is obvious that Obeika supports the resolution, which is unbelievable to me as a Japanese since the resolution is full of untruth.
Cripes Han Chan knows how I feel about this issue very well. There is no need for your condescending attitude.

And btw you may have noticed that outside of this response I have not responded to you and any other "Japanese" poster on this thread since putting up the resolution itself.

I doubt you will figure out why, but I challenge you to figure it out. And I wont be responding to any of your replies until you get the answer right.

[Han Chan]

By the way your view is slightly (to say the least) biased against the Japanese. There are much, much more "populistic and nationalistic politicians who try to stir up animosity against their neighbors" in the peninsula or the continent than in Japan. It is them, eg South Korean Presidents or Chinese Communist leaders, who exploit and distort the historical facts in order to gain (political) support or deflect domestic criticism. I recommend that you check with a fresh pair of eyes which side have been doing propoganda things.
Finally, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by saying "the unpleasant truth about the past - in this connection the issue of "comfort women?"" Abe, like his predecessors, did acknowledge their existence didnt he? He did not deny the fact that the military had been involved in setting up brothels. He just said that the military had never forced the women to serve there by kidnapping them by itself. As argued time and again, there is no evidence whatsoever proving such a claim, and the Korean women claiming they are victims have changed their words so often that they cannot be believed. If you dare to say "facts" or "truth", check and verify the claims by yourself and do not just believe what the one side is saying.
This thread is about Japan. I do not know China first hand, so I can only base my opinion about that country on the media. I am sure the leaders in China are not better than those in Japan. When demonstraters are hurling stones and paint at the japanese embassy in Beijin, I am shure that it is staged by the political leadership there. However, Japan is a democracy and therefore one should expect higher standards.

The problem was that Aso first and the Abe said that the claims regarding the 'comfort women' were not based of facts. This sounds like a indirect way of saying that it is a lie. It that way they are trying to satisfy the right wing minority groups in Japan who claim that the Japanese army did noting wrong.

[KirinMan]

The problem was that Aso first and the Abe said that the claims regarding the 'comfort women' were not based of facts. This sounds like a indirect way of saying that it is a lie. It that way they are trying to satisfy the right wing minority groups in Japan who claim that the Japanese arme did noting wrong

However in the international world of politicians to come straight out and call someone a liar is just not done.

I personally dont think it is to just satisfy the right, but to set in motion an entirely different set of values amongst future generations of Japanese.

Considering that most of the veterans of WWII are dying out and that soon the overwhelming majority of the population will have been born after WWII the administration is working at making Japan to bee seen as the victim of WWII and not the aggressor.

Hence so many Japanese posters here not knowing how inaccurate their education has been in regards to the role Japan played in WWII.

[pipokun]

Now in South Korea, the reparation project which had long been ignored is ongoing after she disclassied the diplomatic documents.

It may be an idea if you would ask them for reparation if you're Korean Americans or immigrants. And the great 10 should support them.

It was unusal for Korea who kept silent about the reparation from Japan, so it may also be a chance for the unusual request by emigrants.

[junjunforever]

The Polish did bring up WWII at the European Summit in June didnt it? They said their vote should be increased disproportionately to their population since many Polish had been killed by the Germans in WWII.
The reason Japans neighbours keep bringing up the issue is because anti-Japan is their regimes' raison d'etre. Take a look at the history textbooks used in China and Korea for example; they are totally one-sided, of course with some truth but also with a lot of lies, and deliberately edited to nurture hatred towards Japan in many generations to come. No wonder even if they keep bringing up the issue. Another reason could be that they tend to look down upon Japan as being morally inferior and barbaristic for historical reasons, but the fact now is that that Japan is still more advanced than they are. The situation is different in Western Europe where the countries' stage of development is roughly the same.
And for apology in action, Japan concluded the basic treaty with Korea in 1965 and extended huge money to them for Japan at that time, in addition to renouncing all assets in Korea belonging to the Japanese. Unlike Germany, Japan paid the money to the state of Korea upon Korean Government's request. Has any other country extended such generosity towards former part of its own or its former colony? But the shame is that this fact was hidden by the Korean government against Korean people until recently.
And unlike Germany again, Japan paid war compensation to the countries it occupied at WWII, including Indonesia and the Philippines. Correct me if i am wrong, but I understand that Germany compensated for holocaust but not for WWII itself. You better not believe China and Korea's claims against Japan literally.

when i make a statement, i dont proclaim it as a universal truth. Compared to japan, German neighbors do not bring up the WW2, because Germany has done enough to compensate.

And like i said money is not the issue.

You also sound like those guys that once you pay money, you can deny all your wrongdoings of the past.

And i dotn believe china or korea's accusation of japan litereally by itself... but i do believe amnesty international, and countless other NPO's, countless number of well-established international media.

And virtually, all international organizations, except half the right-wing organizations in japan, agree japan has not acknowledged its past.

[hplaserjet6p]

japan acknoledges its past.

if it doesnt, why would it keep apologizing to its neighbours?

give us a break.....

[caster51]

after that I realized that this issue was finished in USA
i think USA was also annoyed by them

[brave_new_world]

US House urges Japan to apologize over comfort women but Japanese gov is not intended to apologize but keep good relationship with USA.
That's is how it is going on.

[dongdong]

US House urges Japan to apologize over comfort women but Japanese gov is not intended to apologize but keep good relationship with USA.
That's is how it is going on.

Japanese governors tried to persuade US House so hard not to pass comfort women resolution but US House eventually passed the resolution.
I wonder what would Japanese gov would do about that.