Expressing the wish to do something.

[dark_secrester]

OK, I don't trust tranlators or transliterators. I need to know how to express a wish to do something.
Such as:
I wish I could go to kyoto.
or
I want to go to kyoto.

I can't find it in the textbooks I have (Stupid Japanese for Busy People).

Another thing.
I used Wakan to find the word 'Crap'. On animes the subs say they are saying 'crap', but wakan has no entry for it (Wakan only has 'Damn it!' shimatte).

Thanks for the help.:wave:

[nice gaijin]

I want to go to Kyoto
京都に行きたい - kyouto ni ikitai

It'd be nice if I could go to Kyouto (said to oneself)
京都に行ければいいな - kyouto ni ikereba ii na

Slang words do not work the same way in Japanese. "shimatta" is kind of like "damn it," but more like in the sense that something went wrong, probably through some fault of your own. Translation isn't an exact science; it's just an approximation of what people are saying.

And if your book doesn't cover "I want to...," I wouldn't call it a textbook.

[Elizabeth]

It'd be nice if I could go to Kyouto (said to oneself)
京都に行ければいいな - kyouto ni ikereba ii na
And dark_secrester if you use 行ければいい I think it implies there is a reasonable chance you can actually go, maybe like a 50/50 probability.

京都に行けたら(いい)な I would use if you meant you really, really wanted to but leaving it a pie in the sky fantasy. There was no expectation it's really gonna happen.


I only point that out because Japanese distinguishes feelings and concepts in so differently the context behind your sentence could be translated a lot of different ways. These are just a couple of prime examples to consider, while you wait for a decent book.... :wave:

[epigene]

京都に行けたら(いい)な I would use if you meant you really, really wanted to but leaving it a pie in the sky fantasy. There was no expectation it's really gonna happen.

I wouldn't put it as strongly as that. It's simply an expression of a wish--whether it happens or not depends on the indivisual circumstances. So, nice gaijin's "It'd be nice to..." is a good translation.

Translation of "crap" is not that easy. First, imagine the situations you would use the word in English. In Japanese, the terms used to mean "crap" vary by situation and the individual's background, gender, etc., so there are different words used in different situations--but translated into "crap" in English.

This kind of understanding comes when you attain a certain level of language proficiency. So, when Japanese and English do not match perfectly, it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong... :relief:

[Elizabeth]

I wouldn't put it as strongly as that. It's simply an expression of a wish--whether it happens or not depends on the indivisual circumstances. So, nice gaijin's "It'd be nice to..." is a good translation.

Well, maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration. :relief: I've asked about the difference in conditionals for "wish" before, though, and there seemed to be a general feeling that the ればいい form indicated greatest likelihood, といい depended on the circumstances, and たらいい (which I always assumed most common) gave the sense of being much less probable.


But that's nothing that could be included in a textbook so I suppose it does come down to individual perception and opinion...

[dark_secrester]

Arigatou!
I still don't fully understand:
To check if this is right. using ~tai makes is a 'wish to do' version of the verb.

So would tabemasu be tabetai, and nemasu be netai?
I just realized, about 12 pages are missing from my textbook. Oh well, I'll go get another (different) textbook.

AGain, thank you all.

[shikyo]

Arigatou!
To check if this is right. using ~tai makes is a 'wish to do' version of the verb.
So would tabemasu be tabetai, and nemasu be netai?
AGain, thank you all.
You add tai after the stem of the verb (what u get from removing -masu when a verb is in present, affirmative, masu-form, ex: amu (to knit) - > ami(-masu), dekakeru (to go out) -> dekake(-masu), etc.) and it becomes I want to <verb>. tai conjugates like an i adjective.
Your examples are right.
Also, note that a verb that takes the particle wo can take either wo or ga when you use tai (I think ga is more common, but not sure).
Ex:
eiga wo miru (to see a movie) -> eiga ga mitai (I want to see a movie).

[nice gaijin]

wish!=want. Since what you seem to be driving at is "want," work on v+tai for now.

[dark_secrester]

Thank you everyone!!!
Now I ('m starting to) understand.

[Elizabeth]

Also, note that a verb that takes the particle wo can take either wo or ga when you use tai (I think ga is more common, but not sure).
Ex:
eiga wo miru (to see a movie) -> eiga ga mitai (I want to see a movie).
Use 'を' for now. One exception would be unless 映画が見たい came in response to a question marked by が such as ”dark_secresterさん、今度は、何がしたい？”　(What do you want to do this time, dark_secresterさん？).

The reason is that the feeling of desire expressed by 'が' is much stronger, more spontaneous and generally implies a more immediate need/desire than that expressed by 'を.' Meaning it can be used correctly in a narrower range of contexts.

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?



　

[Elizabeth]

I can't find it in the textbooks I have (Stupid Japanese for Busy People).

Is that the actual name of the book ? A take off from the JFBP series ? Or your own dim view of their effectiveness ?

I don't have I or II on hand at the moment, but if it's the regular JFBP books, my recollection is "want" is covered at several different places and levels. :relief:


Translation of "crap" is not that easy. First, imagine the situations you would use the word in English. In Japanese, the terms used to mean "crap" vary by situation and the individual's background, gender, etc., so there are different words used in different situations--but translated into "crap" in English.
In English there are also two major usages with unrelated meanings : as an interjection similar to "Damn !" and "Lot/Load of crap" being a totally foolish or idiotic thing (全くばかばかしい事）。

[Buntaro]

Hi everybody!

I wanted to throw in three more forms.

Kyoto ni ikou to shite imasu.

--> I am thinking of going to Kyoto.

Kyoto ni ikou to nozonde imasu.

--> I am hoping to go to Kyoto.

Kyoto ni ittara ii naa....

--> wouldn't it be great to go to Kyoto....

---

Did I get those right? Is that "ittara ii" considered Edo Ben?

[nice gaijin]

ikou to shiteimasu implies that the speaker is trying to go but it's not happening

"I'm thinking about going" = "ikou to omoimasu"

also, I don't think nozomu is used much in daily conversation...

I'm not sure what you mean by edo ben; ittara ii is part of standard Japanese...

[Elizabeth]

Kyoto ni ikou to nozonde imasu.
--> I am hoping to go to Kyoto.
I've not ever seen the volitional + to + nozonde iru, but maybe it is possible.

Generally it is set up as "Iku koto　(no) wo nozonde imasu. (or maybe "kibou shite iru" is slightly more natural but as nicegaijin mentioned neither of these are very conversational at all). Especially with "nozomu" sounds like it should be not be about the self and a relatively long distant goal or expectation. It's more the way you talk about an end to the war or a cure for AIDS or something of that magnitude.

Personally I would say instead "Kyoto ni ikitai to omoimasu (omotte imasu)."


Kyoto ni ittara ii naa....
--> wouldn't it be great to go to Kyoto....

Do you mean that it would be great but you don't have any control over the situation or necessarily expect it to happen ? Then, "iku to ii (ne, ndesuga, ndakedo, no ni (naa)...) is fine as well.
---

[epigene]

Hi everybody!
I wanted to throw in three more forms.
Kyoto ni ikou to shite imasu.
--> I am thinking of going to Kyoto.
Kyoto ni ikou to nozonde imasu.
--> I am hoping to go to Kyoto.
Kyoto ni ittara ii naa....
--> wouldn't it be great to go to Kyoto....
---
Did I get those right? Is that "ittara ii" considered Edo Ben?
"Kyoto ni ittara ii naa" would mean that you're hoping some other person will go to Kyoto (meaning good riddance!).

More correctly, it should be "Kyoto ni iketara ii naa."

Regarding Edo-ben, the accurate name is Edo-kotoba, and it points to the dialect spoken by the townfolk of old Edo, in the area that in modern-day Tokyo is the eastern part of the city roughly along the Sumida River.

Standard Japanese (hyojun-go) has developed from "Yamanote-kotoba" spoken by the middle and upper middle class Tokyoites who lived largely in the western part of Tokyo.

Although you can still hear Edo-kotoba among the elderly living in places like Asakusa and Katsushika, it is dwindling and rarely heard these days.