How long should it take me to speak Japanese fluently?

[Shinsan]

Well,I plan to teach in Japan in a few years so and for some reason I started with SOME Romaji and spoken language and I started with Katakana.As of now,I can read A I U E O KA KI KU KE KO in Katakana.How long should it take me to be able to read and speak Japanese fluently?

I study about 2-3 hours everyday and I can read a little tiny bit.I started with Katakana because it's pretty easy.Also,for some reason,I can also read SHI and N.

[Shinsan]

I also bought a Japanese book which teaches you the culture,It has Katakana/Hiragana charts,has a dictionary,and it also teaches you basic things.

[Tomii515]

I will take many many many many many many many years of hard practice. Any language takes a long long time to learn, exspecially if you're learning Jpanese and your first language is English.

Don't take it lightly. It will take a long long long time. Someone I know has studied Japanese for 6 years, and they're not fluent yet. Another person, 5 years, and they're still not.

[Shinsan]

Alright.I'm fine with that.Haha.I'm actually finishing up Katakana right now.It's actually pretty fun because you feel like you accomplished something when you learn a new language.

[Tomii515]

Alright.I'm fine with that.Haha.I'm actually finishing up Katakana right now.It's actually pretty fun because you feel like you accomplished something when you learn a new language.

Congratz lol

I would have suggested learning Hiragana, then Katakan, then when you've MASTERED them, start kanji. but yeah oh well lol >< :p

がんばってよね〜！

[Shinsan]

I also live in Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area!haha.Anyway,Thanks.I chose to learn Katakana first because it looked easy and I wanted to be able to write names first.

[Shinsan]

Kanji will probably take me years :( but hey,If I want to teach English in Japan,I'm going to have to do this right?

[Mike Cash]

Kanji will probably take me years :( but hey,If I want to teach English in Japan,I'm going to have to do this right?

Actually.....no, you don't.

You know, you're all over the map on this. Here are some of your statements to date:


Well,I plan to teach in Japan in a few years so and for some reason I started with SOME Romaji and spoken language and I started with Katakana.As of now,I can read A I U E O KA KI KU KE KO in Katakana.

I already read/write and speak it pretty well

Im not leaving for Japan until I speak Japanese fluently.

Im moving to Japan soon to become an English teacher.

Right now I'm working on my Japanese so I probably wont actually go there until next year.I can read Katakana,I can read SOME Hiragana and..I dont even want to get into Kanji.As for the spoken language,Im working on that as well.


How seriously is anyone really supposed to take you?

[Charles Barkley]

As Mike Cash pointed out, you do not need to know any Japanese do teach English in Japan. You will need to know some English, but even that depends on the school. There are some jobs available here where you could little English and no Japanese and be perfectly competent at your job. But, that's not really here nor there...

The point is, if you want to move to Japan and teach English, don't worry about what your Japanese is like before you go over. It will improve when you get there. Or, if you don't feel like studying while in Japan, you can give up entirely and still have a successful fun experience as an English teacher. I took a summer intensive course the other day with a guy living here 20 years and can't write out his own address. Another guy living here 10 years, doesnt know all that much, and still pronounces things like a fresh off the boat American. And those are college professors.

I hope that after 2.5-3 years of living in Japan (and a tiny bit of self study before I came), I will begin approaching a low level of fluency. Right now, its been slightly more than a year, working as an ALT. Another year as an ALT, then maybe 6 months in a hardcore language school, and we'll see where I am. If I get to the point after 2.5 years, I will be quite happy. But then again, I work very hard.

(and when I say fluency, I don't mean native level)

[Bucko]

I lived in Japan for six months without knowing any Japanese and without even bothering to pick up a text book. As did many of my friends.

[kidtokyo]

Someone I know has studied Japanese for 6 years, and they're not fluent yet. Another person, 5 years, and they're still not.

Are those people you know also 14 years old? In which case, they started learning when they were 7 and 8? I don't think they had mastered English at that age..

[JimmySeal]

What makes you assume all of Tomii's friends are the same age as him.

Back on topic, I think it's possible to become highly proficient in Japanese after 6 or 7 years with a lot of hard work and exposure.

[Mike Cash]

Thank you for using the word "proficient" instead of "fluent".

My goal when I started was "reasonable proficiency in 10 years".

[Elizabeth]

Actually.....no, you don't.
You know, you're all over the map on this. Here are some of your statements to date:
How seriously is anyone really supposed to take you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm currently studying Japanese.Do i NEED to learn Kanji if I want to move to Japan?Is it common?
It's a matter of evolving benchmarks....Understanding that kanji is common I think finally puts us all closer to the same page. :relief:

[Shinsan]

Well,I figured since I'm going to live there,I might as well learn the language because one day I'll probably get married.

[napian2000]

Hey Bikaben.
I'm napian. I live and teach in Japan.
In your native country it may take you about 1 year to read basic Japanese.
The reason i say this is because most, if not all japanese books use a combination of Kanji, hiragana and Katakana. Yes, all three.
When you read remember to verbalise what you read. It will help alot.

When i was learning, my teacher told me this:
All Kana Signs Take Note How Much You Read and Write
A K S T N H M Y R W
This is the basis for the Japanese system of reading
I recommend it.
When you start to learn kanji.
Some are picture based and others story based.
So, have fun
It's an interesting culture.

[Shinsan]

Yes,I know it is,I learned the usage of no,o,ga,desu,desuka,mashita,and more last night with the book as well as cap off Katakana.I think I'm learning in a fast pace.It's really fun because when I finally speak fluently,I'll feel like I accomplished something.I love Japan and everything about it.I can't wait until I start teaching.Arigato gozaimasu!Thank you very much.

[Mike Cash]

You can't love everything about Japan, Mr. Starry Eyes, when you know practically nothing about it.

So what concrete steps have you taken to actually come over here?

[Shinsan]

Well,I'm saving up every penny I get as well as studying the language and culture every night.Mr Starry Eyes?Why must you be so negative?This has been a dream for me for years.I'm also learning about Japanese history and such.I'm not going there without the proper knowledge I need.I'm motivated,excited,and ready to make the final step.

[Mike Cash]

Yet you're coming "soon" or "in a few years". You either already read/write and speak Japanese well or you just learned 10 katakana and the use of "desu". You're not coming without the proper knowledge, yet you're ready to make the final step. You're a self-contradiction machine mounted on two legs.

Studying Japanese and Japanese history are all very nice, yet they have nothing to do with concrete steps to come here and be an English teacher. Other than talking about it.....what steps have you actually taken toward coming here? I'm all about providing practical help to anyone who is actually going to be in need of it. But I get the feeling this is all going to be taken out in gabbing about it in your case. Lots of people dream about lots of things for lots of years. But not many of them actually get off the dime and do anything about it.

[hot12lips12]

can someone tell me how long will it take me to learn Japanese, if Chinese is my first language??

[tanhql]

can someone tell me how long will it take me to learn Japanese, if Chinese is my first language??
if you know chinese (like me), it can be pretty fast due to existing kanji knowledge. even if you cannot pronounce kanji, you can guess the meaning because 60% of japanese, chinese and korean vocabulary are the same, and kanji happens to be the biggest hurdle in learning japanese. for example, 説明書 means 'instruction manual' in japanese; i'm sure you don't know how to pronounce it in japanese yet, but you should know the meaning as in chinese, it means 'instruction manual' too (provided you can read traditional chinese script). for me, i've been learning japanese for around 1 1/2 year, and i can understand most of what's written on auctions on yahoo japan (i buy items from there from time to time, and ask a middle person to ship it to me).

[FrustratedDave]

What makes you assume all of Tomii's friends are the same age as him.

Back on topic, I think it's possible to become highly proficient in Japanese after 6 or 7 years with a lot of hard work and exposure.
I agree with Jimmy here.
Thank you for using the word "proficient" instead of "fluent".

My goal when I started was "reasonable proficiency in 10 years".
Again a good time frame to look at become "proficient", good choice of words guys.

Like I have said before, I only know a very ,very few people who you would call fluent, a very difficult level to attain as you have to take in all aspects when asking this question.

[tanhql]

There's a local scholarship here, which requires students to pass JLPT 3 to get it, go to japan and pass JLPT 1 there in 1 year, in order to further their studies in japan. Do you think it's possible to be fluent and proficient by then?

[FrustratedDave]

There's a local scholarship here, which requires students to pass JLPT 3 to get it, go to japan and pass JLPT 1 there in 1 year, in order to further their studies in japan. Do you think it's possible to be fluent and proficient by then?
In one word "NO".

Just b/c you can pass that test does not mean a lot, b/c it is only one aspect of the language and on top of that the JLPT is not the be all to end test, there are much harder tests out there that test your true Japanese ability.

It will take many, many years to speak at a good level of Japanese, even if you did pass JLPT 1.

I think a lot of people have different ideas about what is fluent and what is basic Japanese.

[shou]

well i took 4 months for the launguge and 2 months for the hiragana and the katakana after that i went to japan for the summer holiday i could easly talk with people well my teacher said that i learend fast but after i came back i have to get back to study more i want to speak fluntly .
i was really happy cuz when i talk with japanese people and if i dont undrstand some word i tell thell can you speak english they say why cuz they think im a japanese so thats a good point mabye im reall good at pronuosing words. well im half japanese but i didnt grow there so im learning the languge now i have too > O < いきず　！！！！！

[FrustratedDave]

well i took 4 months for the launguge and 2 months for the hiragana and the katakana after that i went to japan for the summer holiday i could easly talk with people well my teacher said that i learend fast but after i came back i have to get back to study more i want to speak fluntly .
i was really happy cuz when i talk with japanese people and if i dont undrstand some word i tell thell can you speak english they say why cuz they think im a japanese so thats a good point mabye im reall good at pronuosing words. well im half japanese but i didnt grow there so im learning the languge now i have too > O < いきず　！！！！！
After four months, I would venture to say that you either misinterpreted them or you already knew a lot of Japanese from your background. Pronouncing words is one thing, but stringing together sentences like it was your mother tongue is a whole different ball game. Or maybe they look at you name and presume you are Japanese?

[Charles Barkley]

Thank you for using the word "proficient" instead of "fluent".

My goal when I started was "reasonable proficiency in 10 years".


Why so picky about using fluency versus using proficiency? Is it about the words themselves, or are you sick of hearing people overstate their japanese language ability/brag about insincere compliments they received from Japanese? If its the latter, I understand, but if the former, it seems a little oversensitive given how the word fluency is usually used now. If I hear that someone is fluent in a language, one of the first things I would ask is how fluent? Its obviously a term that includes various degrees.

Of the current JTE's I teach with, I would only call one fluent in English. The rest can't make themselves understand clearly and efficiently, can't understand me when I talk fairly normal English, don't know how to ask for clarification, have accent problems that obscure the meaning of what they are trying to say, etc. The one fluent JTE lacks those negative qualities, can hold a normal conversation, tell jokes, look up and then use specific technical terms if need be, etc etc. She still has a strong accent, makes mistakes, has very poor writing, etc, but that just means she's not native level or highly fluent or technically fluent or professional level. I believe she lived in the US for 3.5 years after majoring in English, but then again she was married to a Japanese man at the time and didnt use it/study it as much in the US as most people would.

Anyway, as fluent and proficient are both fairly vague terms, and as many people are pretty awful at evaluating their own ability, I just don't understand the pickiness.

[Charles Barkley]

Bikaben:

I think Mike is trying to help you think in a more realistic way about Japan as a real place with real people, and about the real possibility of your moving there. I think, perhaps particularly on this forum, there are a lot of people who really really like/are obsessed with small elements of Japanese culture--martial arts/anime/manga etc, and in their minds Japan then becomes this big glorious ball of everything that embodies shiny kawaii goodness in the word.

Then those people apply to a program like JET to become a teacher. And then they get here, ready to enter a world of ninjas, samurai, etc, where everything is exotic and fun. And after they arrive, it really is: for a couple weeks. But then they realize they are living out in an apartment in the middle of nowhere, with very few people who speak English around them. And they're having trouble getting internet at home. And there's no anime on the normal television. And they have to stand in front of kids 'teaching,' when they themselves, and certainly the kids, would much rather be doing other things. There's a big different between what Japan seems like when you have never lived in Japan and what Japan is like when you're living there.

With that said, living here can be great. There are amazing experiences to be had, but you have to be pretty tough and determined to overcome the bad things, and flexible enough to adjust to the many unforeseen good and bad things that will come your way.

Thinking about Japan and your own plans and what is required for language study in a realistic way, as opposed to an idealized way, will only improve your quality of life once you get here. Unless you just want something to daydream about, and maybe a place to be a tourist for a couple weeks. If that's the case, go on, more power to you. But if you really want to live here and learn the language--start acting like it.


ETA: Some recent examples: (pretty relevant to the Japanese experience for foreigners I would say, at least those out in the country)

Negative: This weekend, a really weird trash-like statue-like object was placed outside my front door. I moved it, and creepily, the next day, it reappeared. Thinking about going to the police now and hoping nothing new has been put there (already threw away the first object).

Positive: Up in Aomori, went to see a large, famous festival in hirosaki city. Afterwards, I couldnt find my car, so I asked a person coming back from the festival for directions. Instead, she walked me the 25 minutes it took to where my car was, all the while explaining the history of the festival, and, to top it off, she gave my sister and I a couple of beers as goodbye presents after safely getting us to the car.

[Tomii515]

Are those people you know also 14 years old? In which case, they started learning when they were 7 and 8? I don't think they had mastered English at that age..

No. One's 18 or 19 and the other is 20 i think

[shou]

After four months, I would venture to say that you either misinterpreted them or you already knew a lot of Japanese from your background. Pronouncing words is one thing, but stringing together sentences like it was your mother tongue is a whole different ball game. Or maybe they look at you name and presume you are Japanese?



well i dont look japanese that much but i think i can pronounce cuz sense i was littel i used to see anime's and now i see dramas plus i read alot japanese songs lyrics i think that make me even better . but i think there's alot of small word that i need to now it'll help

[Mike Cash]

Charles, I'm not just being picky....I'm choosing to be precise.

See Rule 13 (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Indians/offense.html).

One can be proficient without being fluent, although proficiency normally does include fluency The problem is that one can be fluent without being proficient.

Keep in mind that the word "fluent" is related to the word "flow". I've known many people who were quite fluent, capable of generating seamless streams of speech....speaking fluently, in other words....that were basically just one horrid stream of errors of grammar and usage, often paying no attention whatsoever to verb tense, subject/verb agreement, preposition choice, etc.

Further, speech is not the only language skill. We also have to consider listening. One can not listen "fluently". But one can be proficient at understanding speech.

So, in itself, "fluent" is very often a meaningless term and even more often an entirely inaccurate and inappropriate term in the context in which it is being used.

[FrustratedDave]

well i dont look japanese that much but i think i can pronounce cuz sense i was littel i used to see anime's and now i see dramas plus i read alot japanese songs lyrics i think that make me even better . but i think there's alot of small word that i need to now it'll help
"I don't look Japanese that much", what does that mean? Are you Japanese by descent? And if your native tongue is Japanese I can see why people would think you were Japanese, but what you say and what is in your profile are very contradicting.

[shou]

FRUSTRATEDDAVE< I DIDNT LEAVE THERE PLUS my mother dont speak japanese its a really hard story to tell

[Shinsan]

I know guys.I cant rush into things..I'm really set on this and it would be great if someone could assist me on Japanese lessons or..a website that'll help me.

[Shinsan]

I also plan to travel to Japan for 2 weeks this year while I study the language & culture to make sure that Japan is what I want.

[Charles Barkley]

Charles, I'm not just being picky....I'm choosing to be precise.

See Rule 13 (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Indians/offense.html).

One can be proficient without being fluent, although proficiency normally does include fluency The problem is that one can be fluent without being proficient.

Keep in mind that the word "fluent" is related to the word "flow". I've known many people who were quite fluent, capable of generating seamless streams of speech....speaking fluently, in other words....that were basically just one horrid stream of errors of grammar and usage, often paying no attention whatsoever to verb tense, subject/verb agreement, preposition choice, etc.

Further, speech is not the only language skill. We also have to consider listening. One can not listen "fluently". But one can be proficient at understanding speech.

So, in itself, "fluent" is very often a meaningless term and even more often an entirely inaccurate and inappropriate term in the context in which it is being used.

You say you can be proficient without being fluent, or fluent without being proficient, so why are you guessing the OP wants to be one when he stated the other (although, I'll give you the fact that in this context, there's no reason to give the OP the benefit of the doubt about anything he has written)? Also, I'm not sure why you say that most people who are proficient are also fluent. Proficiency, like fluency, seems to be a scale (measuring mostly technical correctness/ability), and there are a lot of people in Japan (chinese/korean students in particular seem to have the stereotype because of the importance of achieving a high enough test score to keep study visas) who have reasonable proficiency without much fluency. If you're going to give proficiency some additional meaning, ie proficiency = a high level of proficiency that enables one to succeed in society, then of course that will make most of the people who fit the term reasonably fluent as well. But I thought that was what you didnt like about the term fluent: that, in addition to its one meaning, i.e. a measure of one's ability to flow in a language but particularly in speech, its has also gained another meaning, i.e. a very high general ability level in that language.

Anyway, both terms seems to overlap a lot to me. Both can be used a scale, one for fluidity, the other for correctness, and both have gained the additional meaning of just 'damned-good language skills' (although to my ear, according to this second meaning, a fluent person would be the more skilled).

BTW: I think if one's listening skills aren't up to snuff, it'll kill most conversations and preclude fluency. Listening skills alone won't get you there, but they're an integral part of being conversational, which in turn is necessary for fluency.

[JimmySeal]

I think the blanket term "proficient in Japanese" would imply fluency. To me, saying someone is proficient in a language means they can speak and comprehend spoken utterances well, and can probably read and write well too.

Now if you say "proficient in written Japanese," that does not imply any fluency in the spoken language. Saying someone is "somewhat proficient in Japanese" would also not imply that they are fluent.

I think a lot of people are content to be fluent, not proficient, yakking away endlessly in poor grammar and wrong politeness levels. But proficiency should be the goal.

[Supervin]

The words 'proficient' and 'fluent' are vague words in everyday context - you simply cannot pin down the inferences through these terms because people use them flexibly.

'Proficient' normally relates to all-roundedness, and so a person 'proficient' in a language is somewhat able in all four facets. The problem is, hearing someone being 'proficient' can mean anywhere from being at intermediate level to advanced level.

'Fluent' is technically limited only to speaking, but is often confused with all-roundedness. And 'fluent' can mean anywhere from being able to churn out spoken sentences quickly regardless of correctness, all the way to correct and articulate advanced level speaking.

Now adding to that, 'proficient' must also be distinguished from the word 'proficiency'. The word 'proficiency' is often tied in with standardized tests (like the JLPT, TOEIC, HSK etc.) and so it is a gauge as to the level you are at, often referring to the result prescribed by such tests (e.g. passing JLPT level x).

To shed more light on all this, we can use a common benchmark provided by employers - for instance, employment application forms.

In those forms, there are usually a number of tick boxes under the heading of 'language proficiency'. They typically range from 'native', 'fluent/advanced', 'good', 'fair', and 'basic', with qualifying descriptions for each category. 'Fluent/advanced' entails conversation involving business terminology and being able to read and write business documents - which is a step up from 'good' that entails all other conversation and being able to read newspapers and novels and write essays.

The term 'proficient' is not used in such a context, perhaps due to its rather vague nature. On the other hand, 'fluent' presumes speaking at an advanced level here.

So to indicate all-roundedness, it's probably best to just indicate the level (beginner-intermediate-advanced) rather that using the broad term 'proficient', whilst 'fluent' should strictly be used in reference to correct advanced level speaking.

[Shinsan]

I have no way to contact my Japanese friend anymore.But before he left for Japan,he told me I couldnt pronounce the kana right.Ra sounded like Dah for me.He was in the process of helping me,but sadly,I have no way to contact him.Can anyone help me with pronounciation?

[nice gaijin]

the Japanese r is an alveolar tap/flap, which is distinct from, but sounds closer to an English d (alveolar plosive) than an English r (alveolar approximate). Look up the phonetic structure of Japanese and English for more information.

[Shinsan]

Alright.ありがとございます! Well I'm going to do this and hopefully by the time i go,I'll be set.It sounds like AhDEEGAHTOW?

Right?

[nice gaijin]

I can't endorse that romanization; the Japanese r is distinct from a d. Vowels are are different too, long vowels are different from dipthongs (so とう is not the same as "toe")

You're better off studying kana and understanding the sounds that correspond to each character, instead of trying to equate them to what you know in English.

[FrustratedDave]

I can't endorse that romanization; the Japanese r is distinct from a d. Vowels are are different too, long vowels are different from dipthongs (so とう is not the same as "toe")

You're better off studying kana and understanding the sounds that correspond to each character, instead of trying to equate them to what you know in English.
I agree, buy some tapes that will help you with pronunciation.

[Calchas]

Rather then a time based goal of becoming fluent in X years. I set a goal of understanding spoken Japanese to the point where I can listen to Japanese movies/programs once that goal is attained I might set about learning to read/write Japanese. Though, since I have no desire to live in Japan, reading or writing Japanese is not high on my list.

[Mike Cash]

If learning to comprehend speech is your goal, you may be surprised to learn that studying writing/reading will actually go a long way toward advancing that goal.

[SushiShin]

i'm half japanese and even i can't still write good! dammit!
but im heading progress thanks to you guys and thanks because of my motivation to study! hai it feels very good if you complished something you really like to do:cool:

[Calchas]

If learning to comprehend speech is your goal, you may be surprised to learn that studying writing/reading will actually go a long way toward advancing that goal.

I will give it a try then, but I think I will first try building up some vocab. I know hiragana and did try my hand at reading some words in hiragana . But, with my limited vocab, it wasn't helping me to learn anything which is why I dumped it.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Reading and writing is how you build up your vocab. The sooner you start, the quicker you'll learn when you're communicating. Even if you can listen and say all the sounds in Japanese, it's hard to have a conversation when you only understand what 30% of them mean.

[Tatsuki]

depends on your commitment. by the look of things for you, you may even crack it before 2 years. although i don't understand your definition of fluency.
if you mean "hi how are you" sort of convo, thats simple. if you mean "fluent enough to read japanese newspaper and soaps" thats another.


kanji however XD...all different for everyone.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I'm sure others will explain better than me, but fluency is not a measure of knowledge, it's related to be able to communicate with fluidity. If you're able to let loose a stream of Japanese without pausing to think about it, you're fluent, even if your grammar isn't perfect and you don't know a lick of Kanji. Children, despite not being literate, also tend to be fluent.

Proficiency on the other hand...

[chedie]

The fact that you are learning a new language, it would take years to be fluent in one. Just think of it, besides learning the grammar structures, just how many words and phrases do you think there is in one language? And to use them all correctly would take constant training and memorization to get to the level you could converse correctly as if speaking your native toungue.

As for the timeframe you plan on being fluent, I guess that would depend greatly on your commitment. So just do your best ne? :cool:

[Mike Cash]

I will give it a try then, but I think I will first try building up some vocab. I know hiragana and did try my hand at reading some words in hiragana . But, with my limited vocab, it wasn't helping me to learn anything which is why I dumped it.

It is very similar to pushing a car which has run out of gas.

It takes a lot of effort to get it moving, but once it's rolling it doesn't take as strenuous an effort to sustain the motion.

Familiarity with kanji can help you pick up new vocabulary items on the fly during conversation. Many is the time that I've heard some new word, considered the context, given thought to which kanji may comprise it, and been able to understand and use the new word correctly. The really sweet thing about it is that the other person has no idea you just heard the word for the very first time.

[jmwintenn]

i plan on taking a japanese language class in college next year(wanted a year off since i just graduated highschool)but i'm already ordering books and interactive cds and what not because i've considered living there.I plan on studying abroad in japan,or sometimes you get sent to the country where the language is spoken to learn/better comprehend it.

I had a goal of 3 years to carry on a "small talk" conversation(ive always had trouble with pronounciation due to my pesky speech impediment) and be able to hold my own in a day to day conversation in 5 years. I've always been able to understand(hear) better than I can communicate when it comes to different languages. Though if I dont understand anything they say I'll use tone,facial position and what I've/they've done to ascertain the "jist" of it.

I hope my own learning experience doesn't take 10 years,hell,learning english didnt take more than 6 years.

[Derfel]

Well its a bit confusing for me, you say 10 years, is it with or without all the commonly used kanji characters? I mean, there's a point where you can speak fluently so you only need to chew kanji right? Learning the spoken language can't take 10 can it? Well im talking about a case where you sacrifice most of your free time for the "cause" :D I personally was bilingual from the start, so i managed to learn english relatively easly thanks to the similarities even if only the order of the words was a bit similar, but its no help to me now is it? Since hungarian (finnugor) doesn't resemble japanese and neither does armenian(indo-european). What a pity. Please tell me your opinion.

Umm yeah about what Shou said... how is that possible, i mean im just a mere beginner when it comes to japanese, but i see japanese speaking people say that its rather time consuming to learn japanese. If you were in touch with your roots Shou i'd say its possible, its easy, but you yourself denied that. I don't get it, how did you achieve that much in 4 months? I don't say its impossible, i don't really know if it is, and i won't go as far as openly doubting what someone said, but i must say you're either very talented when it comes to languages or very talented when it comes to bragging.

[Charles Barkley]

I had a goal of 3 years to carry on a "small talk" conversation(ive always had trouble with pronounciation due to my pesky speech impediment) and be able to hold my own in a day to day conversation in 5 years. I've always been able to understand(hear) better than I can communicate when it comes to different languages. Though if I dont understand anything they say I'll use tone,facial position and what I've/they've done to ascertain the "jist" of it.
I hope my own learning experience doesn't take 10 years,hell,learning english didnt take more than 6 years.

3 years starting from when? Studying in college? Studying on your own? Or living in Japan? I study very hard but I am not a particularly social person, so my speaking/listening skills lag behind my reading/writing. But I would say that after one year of living in Japan (and working as an English teacher), I'm somewhere between small talk and hold my own--I couldn't participate in a native-native conversation at normal speed, but I can talk about most things I want to say in somewhat broken japanese. If you're talking 3-5 years living in Japan, don't sell yourself short. If you're talking listening to podcasts overseas--well, I have no idea.

ETA: Before I came over I worked my way through 2/3 of the Genki 1 textbook on my own, but had never really spoken the language.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I'm the reverse of my baketball playing friend. I don't study at all, but I'm rather social, so my reading/writing skills lag behind my speaking/listening. After 4+ years in Japan, I feel perfectly comfortable talking, but only comfortable with reading/writing for day to day activities (reading menus, signs, etc. -- not at the newspaper level).

It depends on what your strengths are and how you study, but with 5 years of hard study and practice, you should be very good at Japanese. The problem is maintaining motivation and practicing everyday.

[Shinsan]

Yeah,I'm motivated and I study everyday.I actually went to a Sushi bar and ordered all in Japanese.I dunno if I said things right,but i tried.Watashi wa no (octopus) desu?(I want the Ocotpus/I want to have to octopus)By the way,Sushi is delicious!I probably looked like an idiotic american,but I try.:p

[Shinsan]

I want to have the octopus*

[nice gaijin]

it was a nice try, but "I'll have the octopus" would be "(watashi wa) tako ni shimasu" I'm afraid that your way of asking would only be understandable because of "me" and "octopus"

we learn the most from mistakes

[Shinsan]

Ah.Thankyou.Haha.Does anyone know of any websites that would help me with my grammar,pronounciation,to learn Japans history,the culture,help me learn how to say sentences?Not all in one site,but seperate ones of course.ありがと！

[chedie]

You could try this. It's pretty extensive :)

http://www.yookoso.com/

[jmwintenn]

3 years starting from when? Studying in college? Studying on your own? Or living in Japan? I study very hard but I am not a particularly social person, so my speaking/listening skills lag behind my reading/writing. But I would say that after one year of living in Japan (and working as an English teacher), I'm somewhere between small talk and hold my own--I couldn't participate in a native-native conversation at normal speed, but I can talk about most things I want to say in somewhat broken japanese. If you're talking 3-5 years living in Japan, don't sell yourself short. If you're talking listening to podcasts overseas--well, I have no idea.
ETA: Before I came over I worked my way through 2/3 of the Genki 1 textbook on my own, but had never really spoken the language.

3 years starting saturday or monday when I get my books from the library(had to order them from the one across town),and I'll be studying on my own until I start college next fall when I plan on taking the class.All I have now is a job and free time,and motivation only lacks when something comes too easily.

I also plan on borrowing my friends japanese text book(he's taking the class at the moment),but what I find odd is the fact that the teacher ordered them from japan,I mean what good is a book in Japanese for students who can't read or write anything?