Is it worth learning Japanese now?

[JerseyBoy]

I have to admit my sentiment on this point is biased as I have been in the English-speaking country for many years. The economic and political powers in the world change. I am Japanese but I tend to prefer speaking English as I feel it has a better use internationally (English is considered an international language in business) and will get me where I would want to be or become in the future inside or outside Japan. If I decide to start a family, I am thinking about making English as the preferred household language.

I am not a nationalist and don't subscribe to the virtue of the cultural identity; so, I am not listening to the argument a Japanese has to stick with Japanese.

[junjunforever]

I have to admit my sentiment on this point is biased as I have been in the English-speaking country for many years. The economic and political powers in the world change. I am Japanese but I tend to prefer speaking English as I feel it has a better use internationally (English is considered an international language in business) and will get me where I would want to be or become in the future inside or outside Japan. If I decide to start a family, I am thinking about making English as the preferred household language.

I am not a nationalist and don't subscribe to the virtue of the cultural identity; so, I am not listening to the argument a Japanese has to stick with Japanese.

well then. Didnt you already make your decision with the last sentence?

Assuming you are going to raise a family in New Jersey (or anywhere else in America), perhaps Spanish would be a "better" second language choice over Japanese.

But i really see no harm for anyone to look into their cultural roots, not because one's race is so important, but because it might be worth the effort to try to figure out where you come from. Kind of like studying history i suppose. Your kids will inevitably ask you where they come from, and i think it is important to tell them where they come from.

But if you are going to live in japan, no matter how international english is, japanese is a must.

[Glenski]

Is it worth it to learn Japanese now?

You are Japanese. You already know the language. So, who is your question pointed to? Most people living in Japan and working in a non-teaching job will probably have to deal with Japanese communication at work, and practically everyone will have to deal with it in other daily matters.

So, define who you are referring to, and in what situation.

[Elizabeth]

I have to admit my sentiment on this point is biased as I have been in the English-speaking country for many years. The economic and political powers in the world change. I am Japanese but I tend to prefer speaking English as I feel it has a better use internationally (English is considered an international language in business) and will get me where I would want to be or become in the future inside or outside Japan. If I decide to start a family, I am thinking about making English as the preferred household language.
I am not a nationalist and don't subscribe to the virtue of the cultural identity; so, I am not listening to the argument a Japanese has to stick with Japanese.
If this is directed at anyone who doesn't already know English and is looking around for a good second or third language that would help them get ahead in international business, then no I would not recommend that person learn Japanese. There has never been a time in history when it has been given the position of world's lingua franca.

If a speaker of any language is or ever will be be living in the country, is continually awed by such a gorgeous, unique, fascinating culture or they happen to be of Japanese descent and are interested out of purely practical social/cultural/intellectual benefits than absolutely it is a language worth studying.

Setting up English as a household language as a way of raising bilingual (if not completely fluent) kids is also a great idea. Know any other Japanese person not having been raised in an English environment that applies to ?

[ET_Fukuoka]

No, Probably not but I like studying it so it's all good. I would say Chinese or Spanish would be the best.

[JerseyBoy]

If this is directed at anyone who doesn't already know English and is looking around for a good second or third language that would help them get ahead in international business, then no I would not recommend that person learn Japanese. There has never been a time in history when it has been given the position of world's lingua franca.

Setting up English as a household language as a way of raising bilingual (if not completely fluent) kids is also a great idea. Know any other Japanese person not having been raised in an English environment that applies to ?
That is my thought as well. If (big if, that is) I am going to have a kid in the future, I want to make sure the kid will speak the language(s) which is widely used in the business. Also, he/she is not be tethered to Japan and will be able to take on an international opportunity.

[JimmySeal]

If you are thinking of raising children in Japan you would be doing them a major disservice by not raising them to be able to understand and speak Japanese. You may be able to get around by speaking mostly English since you're in Tokyo and I suppose a lot of people speak English there, but you surely do resort to the use of Japanese when you need to.
Your children should be able to speak the language of the people around them. If you're not planning for them to live in Japan, there is no need to teach them Japanese, but otherwise, it's entirely possible to raise bilingual children and it would be a missed opportunity to not do so.

[Elizabeth]

If you are thinking of raising children in Japan you would be doing them a major disservice by not raising them to be able to understand and speak Japanese. You may be able to get around by speaking mostly English since you're in Tokyo and I suppose a lot of people speak English there, but you surely do resort to the use of Japanese when you need to.
Your children should be able to speak the language of the people around them. If you're not planning for them to live in Japan, there is no need to teach them Japanese, but otherwise, it's entirely possible to raise bilingual children and it would be a missed opportunity to not do so.
They are going to learn both, obviously, simply by living in the country. Most of the kids that live around me are from Spanish only homes but by 6 or 7 their English is nearly perfect cause they hear it from other kids, TV, school and basically every time they step foot out of their apartments.

It works even with one parent speaking English as numerous members can attest...


I want to make sure the kid will speak the language(s) which is widely used in the business. Also, he/she is not be tethered to Japan and will be able to take on an international opportunity.
And being bilingual would open up numerous career opportunities far outside of the narrow world of international commerce :

Other areas they could apply their skills range from interpretation, translation, international relations, journalism, law, education, tourism, non profit organizations, information technology....etc

[SushiShin]

whats the point not learning japanese if you live in the country its self? no offend, but it always better to know some japanese (or to teach your children etc..) you never know what its good for.

i know i have a big mouth but i like to help people, thats in my nature. :relief:

[Glenski]

I agree with the recent posters, Jersey Boy. Living in Japan and being Japanese (as you are and as your future kids will be) makes no sense if you don't teach them Japanese. Besides, I believe the law says they have to attend Japanse school anyway.

Many of us have kids learning both languages. Think about it. Even if the stupid government doesn't believe it's possible, it is, and not just in Japan. Why wouldn't you empower your kids to have both languages under their belt and be better off than a monolingual businessman?

[Elizabeth]

I agree with the recent posters, Jersey Boy. Living in Japan and being Japanese (as you are and as your future kids will be) makes no sense if you don't teach them Japanese. Besides, I believe the law says they have to attend Japanse school anyway.
They have to attend Japanese schools but there's no law Japanese has to be the primary family language. Like I said with my example knowing numerous home Spanish-only neighbor kids, with normal and routine exposure they'll pick it up with no problem from living in the country regardless.


Many of us have kids learning both languages. Think about it. Even if the stupid government doesn't believe it's possible, it is, and not just in Japan. Why wouldn't you empower your kids to have both languages under their belt and be better off than a monolingual businessman?
That's precisely his consideration. Also, preferred/primary home language doesn't have to deny a role for Japanese entirely.

[undrentide]

I agree with Glenski. It really depends on where the family lives, and since the language is a communication tool, children should be able to express themselves comfortably and understand others surrounding them as well.

I have some doubt that children would pick up the language spontaneously and easily from friends, though.
If they are raised in a household only English is spoken in Japan, for example, it would take them some time before they start being able to communicate in Japanese with their neighbours. When they are still babies and only English is spoken at home, then their grandparents would have difficulties to talk with them, that's another issue I would feel concerned.

Using both language at home and raise them as bilingual is a different matter.
I'm sure it will give the children great advantage and more opportunities in the future.

[JimmySeal]

I know a single mother here in Japan who has raised her son speaking to him in Japanese some of the time and English some of the time. He's only about 5 years old but can already speak both languages quite well.

If you spoke only English to your children for the first few years of their life, they would be in for quite a rude awakening when they entered the school system or encountered the neighbors. I see no reason to stipulate one single "primary household language," as you would be giving your hypothetical children a great leap forward by raising them around both languages.

[Calchas]

I have to admit my sentiment on this point is biased as I have been in the English-speaking country for many years. The economic and political powers in the world change. I am Japanese but I tend to prefer speaking English as I feel it has a better use internationally (English is considered an international language in business) and will get me where I would want to be or become in the future inside or outside Japan. If I decide to start a family, I am thinking about making English as the preferred household language.
I am not a nationalist and don't subscribe to the virtue of the cultural identity; so, I am not listening to the argument a Japanese has to stick with Japanese.

Depends on your goals as to what language you place priority in. There is nothing wrong with English being the "language used at home" there are , for example, plenty of house holds here in the US where only Spanish is spoken.

Many here in the US would argue that you should learn the language of the country you live in and I tend to agree, but its not my place to say so.

Do what you think is best for your family.

[Mycernius]

I would say yes. Not only do you live in Japan, it is also a way to keep the language alive. If others felt the same way the number of languages in the world would decrease as everyone would learn only the dominant languages such as English, Spanish and Mandarin. The others would fall into disuse and become dead languages, only studied by lingustic scholars. It would become a cultural loss to the world. This is already happening in some countries where English is rapidly becoming ever more dominant. I have heard people in Sweden and The Netherlands mention that their own language is being slowly replaced by English. Manx did lose out, but is now being revived on the Isle of Man because some poeple feel that to lose the language is to lose the Islands heritage, culture and identity.

[Glenski]

They have to attend Japanese schools but there's no law Japanese has to be the primary family language. Like I said with my example knowing numerous home Spanish-only neighbor kids, with normal and routine exposure they'll pick it up with no problem from living in the country regardless.
Elizabeth,
Maybe you don't understand me.

Jersey Boy is Japanese. He has lived in the USA for a while and is now contemplating returning to Japan. Whether he marries a Japanese or other nationality is moot. His kids will be Japanese, and if he chooses to live in Japan, they will be required by law to attend Japanese school. I agree that such a law doesn't stipulate the primary family language has to be anything, but if they are going to live in Japan and attend school here, don't you think it would be kinda difficult for them to get through schooling with poor Japanese language skills? They are not going to pick up Japanese on their own, certainly not well enough to go through school. Just my opinion.

Depends on your goals as to what language you place priority in. There is nothing wrong with English being the "language used at home" there are , for example, plenty of house holds here in the US where only Spanish is spoken.
Many here in the US would argue that you should learn the language of the country you live in and I tend to agree, but its not my place to say so.
Do what you think is best for your family.
Yes, depends on your goals. Just how far are those people going to get by speaking only Spanish? Their geographical radius is severely limited, for one. Spanish, I believe, is yet to be declared an official second language in the USA, so job prospects are not as good as if they knew fluent English. But, if they don't care about job prospects...

[SushiShin]

its very wise indeed to feed your children in two different languages, you never know what for they can use it, for example they go to another country they have english, but if a japanese guy asks the direction to your child(ren): what is he going to reply? (Wakarimasen?) or (I'm sorry kind sir but i don't speak Nihongo?)

i know nobody is perfect but keep one in mind: don't be too late with teaching a language to you child(ren) because the perfect age to master a language quickly is the age of 5-10 year.

i have experience because i still teach my nephews some words tagalog and japanese, sometimes my japanese friend even ask to ME for a word he forgot! :relief:
just love your children and raise them like you want, but it doesn't hurt if you learn them also japanese:-)

Shin*

[GodEmperorLeto]

JerseyBoy,

Definitely focus on multi-lingualism with your kids. Living in Japan and speaking Japanese only makes sense. But knowing English gives them a definite advantage. They'll get better grades in English classes for one, and if they are familiar enough with English, they can learn Dutch, French, and German much more easily. And it isn't hard, either. Kids like language and talking, especially when they are young. My niece's primary language is English, but I've taught her numbers and body-parts (arm, head, leg, ears, etc) in Japanese, Latin, and French, and she knows them and can recite them, and she's only 2 years old. Granted, she's a bit precocious, but kids still latch on to these things when they are little, and I know families where the husband's native tongue is different from the wife's, and the kids are perfectly fluent in both languages.

The key is to keep it up. Make time to speak only English to your kids every day, and get them to speak it back. It'll also keep you in practice, too. Believe me, languages get rusty if you don't use them.

No language is wasted, either. Knowledge of any language is knowledge that is better to be had, even if it is a language that is extremely obscure. My niece may never, ever, use Japanese in her daily life, but her knowledge of it that she is getting from me will still edify her.

[Pachipro]

Elizabeth,
Maybe you don't understand me.

Jersey Boy is Japanese. He has lived in the USA for a while and is now contemplating returning to Japan.

Maybe you don't understand. If you have been following JerseyBoy's posts, he has returned to Japan some time ago and is now going through a kind of culture shock for which he is throwing out this and other questions to gage others' opinions in order to enable himself to become more acclimated to Japan. He does intend on staying in Japan though.


JersyBoy, if you want to raise your family in an English speaking environment in Japan, then by all means do it as that is probably the ONLY way they are going to become fluent in the English language in Japan. Besides, English will remain the international language for business and such for many years to come.

As a former English teacher myself for many years, I know how difficult it is for Japanese to become proficient in English after many years of study and no chance of speaking it outside the classroom.

Your children will learn Japanese easily enough in school and through their friends and become fluent in English at home with the help of you and your wife. I have known a few western families whose primary language was English at home and the children learned Japanese fluently at school and such. In the long run they were at near native language level by the time they were teenagers.

I commend you for attempting this and I believe you will be successful in having your children be fluent in both languages.

[Glenski]

Maybe you don't understand. If you have been following JerseyBoy's posts, he has returned to Japan some time ago and is now going through a kind of culture shock for which he is throwing out this and other questions to gage others' opinions in order to enable himself to become more acclimated to Japan. He does intend on staying in Japan though.Thanks for the summary. I tend NOT to follow people's personal lives on forums, and I had assumed he was not yet here. My mistake.

However, my points are still valid. If his Japanese skills have deteriorated that much, I still wouldn't worry about any of his future kids learning Japanese, especially if he is married to a fellow Japanese. It would be a step up from an English-speaking foreigner like me who is married to a Japanese. My kid gets both languages at home, one from each parent, and at 4 he is essentially bilingual. Not bragging here, just fact.

JersyBoy, if you want to raise your family in an English speaking environment in Japan, then by all means do it as that is probably the ONLY way they are going to become fluent in the English language in Japan. If you mean just raise him at home with English exposure only at home, then perhaps yes. It has been the case for the last 4 years inmy kid's sake, and we are not alone. Others have done what we do. There, of course, is more to do to supplement home language exposure (like international schools if you can afford them, or send them to native English speaking countries for study, etc.).

Your children will learn Japanese easily enough in school and through their friends and become fluent in English at home with the help of you and your wife. I have known a few western families whose primary language was English at home and the children learned Japanese fluently at school and such. In the long run they were at near native language level by the time they were teenagers.Me, too, but there are also those families who DON'T use both languages at home. As an example, I taught one kid whose father was American, and he spoke English as badly as any other of his classmates in high school, simply because his home life did not include English.

But, I thought we were talking about Japanese here. I was under the impression that Jersey Boy wanted his kids NOT to learn Japanese, only English.
quote Jersey Boy:
I am not listening to the argument a Japanese has to stick with Japanese.

If (big if, that is) I am going to have a kid in the future, I want to make sure the kid will speak the language(s) which is widely used in the business. Also, he/she is not be tethered to Japan and will be able to take on an international opportunity."Tethered to Japan" seems like manacles, when being bilingual is more of a freedom. I really can't understand how Jersey Boy thinks that his future kid should avoid learning Japanese while being raised in Japan! Please help me here, JB.

[kireikoori]

I would say yes. Not only do you live in Japan, it is also a way to keep the language alive. If others felt the same way the number of languages in the world would decrease as everyone would learn only the dominant languages such as English, Spanish and Mandarin. The others would fall into disuse and become dead languages, only studied by lingustic scholars. It would become a cultural loss to the world. This is already happening in some countries where English is rapidly becoming ever more dominant. I have heard people in Sweden and The Netherlands mention that their own language is being slowly replaced by English. Manx did lose out, but is now being revived on the Isle of Man because some poeple feel that to lose the language is to lose the Islands heritage, culture and identity.
Of all the intelligent things in this thread, I wanted to agree with this one most.
Practicality isn't really a good reason to learn a language. English, Spanish and Mandarin are practical languages to learn. But this is because they are dominant, and they are choking out other languages. I'd like to learn Gaelic just because it's endangered.

One of the things that makes Japanese worth learning is that it has 130 million speakers. Which makes it enough that you'll have plenty of people to talk to while keeping a non-dominant language alive.

[ishnar]

There's no reason why it can only be one or the other.

If living in Japan, then Japanese is the higher priority, so until the child starts going to pre-school or kindergarten teach Japanese. Once the child is learning Japanese outside the house, his/her Japanese skills will sustain themselves, so at that point start demanding English in the house.

[JerseyBoy]

I really can't understand how Jersey Boy thinks that his future kid should avoid learning Japanese while being raised in Japan! Please help me here, JB.
I think I have omitted a little more info. Learning Japanese is a given when one is living in Japan. The original thread was intended for the priority on English over Japanese while this hypothetical kid attains a good command of Japanese. I make good money in Japan because I am very competent working in the bilingual setting. It is always good to have an exit option to other English-speaking countries when you need to emigrate to other countries from Japan in the future. This option will be severly limited without a good command of the languauge.

[Glenski]

Thank you Jersey Boy.

So, what was (is) your original point then? Learning Japanese is a given, yet the title of your thread is contradictory to that. Help again to define this "priority".

[JerseyBoy]

Thank you Jersey Boy.
So, what was (is) your original point then? Learning Japanese is a given, yet the title of your thread is contradictory to that. Help again to define this "priority".
That was my own opinion (my rational practical side speaking). In this thread, I just asked if it is worth learning Japanese now. When I say "priority," I mean I put more priority on English over Japanese. In a sense, I use Japanese as a simple business tool to make good living (nothing more, nothing less), while I enjoy literature, music, and all the rest in English (in addition to using it for business and daily life all the time).

[Glenski]

Jersey Boy,
I stand by my original statements.

If you are Japanese, the priority for a family, IMO, should be to learn Japanese. Now, unless you are one of those who believes incorrectly that a person cannot learn 2 languages at the same time, I see no reason why your kids couldn't also learn English, but survival in Japan rests on learning Japanese first, hence that priority.

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm Ive always thought that if i had kids Id like them to speak english but also their mothers language too. If i lived in england then they would speak english all of the time but japanese at home and vice versa. Japanese might not be needed for survival but id like to give my children another option to life and of course there is always the chance that they would pick Japan as their nationality in the future.
In your case If I was you I would teach my children english. Parents these days pay good money for their children to learn another language so for someone to learn it from a young age, well it can only be a good thing not only for emigrational purposes but also in the sense of educational value and the improvement in a social case.

(Im still not sure what your really asking but i hope i have helped)

[Elizabeth]

Your children will learn Japanese easily enough in school and through their friends and become fluent in English at home with the help of you and your wife. I have known a few western families whose primary language was English at home and the children learned Japanese fluently at school and such. In the long run they were at near native language level by the time they were teenagers.

Yes, for immigrant families the language barrier is obviously a reality of their circumstances on the edge of society. Children of Japanese parents I very much doubt will have native friends without being provided a strong rootedness in the language.

A Japanese family in Tokyo that speaks to their children or even each other primarily in English can look forward to a life of social ostracism and unspeakable, pardon the pun, frustration difficult to imagine in the West. Not to mention a total lack of sympathy/accomodation, by schools or any other institution.

Jersey Boy's initial description of his approach to bilingualism as "thinking of making English the preferred (not sole or exclusive) home language" made some sense to me as far as it went. And I'm glad to see it was later clarified that a mastery of Japanese be everyone's primary concern. :-)

[Globetrotter36]

I haven't bothered to read all the posts here but the question 'is it worth learning Japanese? is one that's been bugging me quite a while. I got as far as the 'A' level in my native country the UK (doesn't mean much the exam was on an out-dated format with no oral).

Since then I have found my efforts to have been largely a waste of time and worst of all money. The Japanese appear the last to acknowledge your efforts, gaining employment never happens unless by some chance you happen to be fluent or are luck enough to have a degree either in Japanese or a subject supplementary to the language.

I think much depends on who you are, where you live and whether you can actally use or need the language.

[Glenski]

Just how do you expect them to "acknowledge" your efforts? Most Japanese will hear a simple "good morning" or "thank you" and praise a foreigner to high heaven. I wouldn't expect an outright remark related to getting hired. (Ex. "Oh, yes, you speak so well, it is one of the main reasons we hired you.")

gaining employment never happens unless by some chance you happen to be fluent or are luck enough to have a degree either in Japanese or a subject supplementary to the language.What sort of work are you talking about? Teachers don't even need a degree that's related to the job, you know. If it's non-teaching work, then most of the time you need relevant education, experience, and fairly high Japanese.

"Lucky enough" is a lame excuse for lack of trying. If one wants a job, one gets the proper qualifications.

[Globetrotter36]

Just how do you expect them to "acknowledge" your efforts? Most Japanese will hear a simple "good morning" or "thank you" and praise a foreigner to high heaven. I wouldn't expect an outright remark related to getting hired. (Ex. "Oh, yes, you speak so well, it is one of the main reasons we hired you.")
What sort of work are you talking about? Teachers don't even need a degree that's related to the job, you know. If it's non-teaching work, then most of the time you need relevant education, experience, and fairly high Japanese.
"Lucky enough" is a lame excuse for lack of trying. If one wants a job, one gets the proper qualifications.

That's just the kind of BS I hear so often from Japanese, I have never heard a Japanese 'praise a foreigner to high heaven', youi are obviously living on a different planet!
There is no need for your patronizing remark 'teachers don't even need a degree related to the job you know', I know that better than you do! As for your last sentence some of us cannot get the qaulifications we want or need. By the way I have seen people suitably qualified with degrees in Japanese and other subjects be treated like dirt when they have applied for jobs with Japanese companies. You are just one of those who cannot admit the oh so frequent mental deficiencies and arrogance of your own nationality. No surprise you didn't win the war but come to think of it damned good job too!

[Glenski]

That's just the kind of BS I hear so often from Japanese, I have never heard a Japanese 'praise a foreigner to high heaven', youi are obviously living on a different planet!It's BS to hear such words, I agree, but if you've been in Japan for any length of time, you'll hear it regularly. That is not BS!

Since your profile says you have only been to Japan for a month or less, I'd say you don't have enough experience to know.

There is no need for your patronizing remark 'teachers don't even need a degree related to the job you know', I know that better than you do! It's not patronizing. You are the one on another planet, because this is a fact of life in Japan for most teaching jobs. Do you teach here? If so, in what capacity? I smell a troll.

As for your last sentence some of us cannot get the qaulifications we want or need. By the way I have seen people suitably qualified with degrees in Japanese and other subjects be treated like dirt when they have applied for jobs with Japanese companies. Yes, people who are indeed suitably qualified can get jobs or be treated like dirt. Case by case. Having qualifications is no guarantee of being treated respectably, and I never suggested that. I only stated what you need to actually land the job in the first place.

You are just one of those who cannot admit the oh so frequent mental deficiencies and arrogance of your own nationality. No surprise you didn't win the war but come to think of it damned good job too!Stop the trollish remarks.

[Half-n-Half]

You are just one of those who cannot admit the oh so frequent mental deficiencies and arrogance of your own nationality. No surprise you didn't win the war but come to think of it damned good job too!

Wait wait, sorry to jump in the middle of this and I might have this completely wrong but, Glenski is not Japanese. I believe he is originally from the US, correct me if I'm wrong. Is that what you were referring to when you mentioned the lost war? World War 2?

[Glenski]

Half-n-half,
Yes, I'm American, as my profile and avatar clearly state.

Ignore the trollish comments from that guy. It's not worth it. If harassing comments continue, moderators will take care of matters, but for now do what trolls hate most: ignore them.