help with sentence

[addicted2pocky]

how do you say, "My dream is to live in Japan" or "My hope is to live in Japan."?

[Tomii515]

Uhm... I dont know... But I'll take a guess:

（私は）日本に住んでいますといいます夢を見ます。
(watashi wa) nihon ni sunde imasu to iimasu yume o mimasu.
I dream to live in Japan.

Dunno if it's correct, or if people would say this though. This is my best guess.

[masaegu]

Nice try Tomii515.

May I correct? "imasu to iimasu" sounds very awkward to the Japanese ear.

We would say:

(私の)夢は日本に住むことです。 or 日本に住むことを夢見ています。

[Charles Barkley]

Why is it koto in this case and not mono masaegu? Struggling to learn the difference, although I probably would have guessed koto in this case just because it seems to be more widely applicable...

[Elizabeth]

Nice try Tomii515.
May I correct? "imasu to iimasu" sounds very awkward to the Japanese ear.
We would say:
(私の)夢は日本に住むことです。 or 日本に住むことを夢見ています。
What about 私は、(私にとって)、日本に住むのが夢だ。？ Although the emphasis shifts slightly towards the speaker so it becomes more like "For me, going to Japan is a dream."

日本に住むこと（の）を夢見ています。

日本にいたい(住みたい)ものだ！　
日本にいたいな。。。:relief:

[Mike Cash]

Why is it koto in this case and not mono masaegu? Struggling to learn the difference, although I probably would have guessed koto in this case just because it seems to be more widely applicable...

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4) provides The Answer.

Tangible versus intangible.

[Elizabeth]

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4) provides The Answer.

Tangible versus intangible.
Unless it is a situation represented as if it were a vibrant, tangible experience. In that case, Charles may have been expecting ものだ as it is used to express different types of feelings or add emotional intensity (strong desire) to a statement. The difference I believe is that もの is not acting as a nominalizer in patterns such as these.


日本に住みたいものだ
日本にいたいものだ。

[Mike Cash]

Unless it is a situation represented as if it were a vibrant, tangible experience. In that case, Charles may have been expecting ものだ as it is used to express different types of feelings or add emotional intensity (strong desire) to a statement. The difference I believe is that もの is not acting as a nominalizer in patterns such as these.

日本に住みたいものだ
日本にいたいものだ。

Those weren't the patterns he was asking about.

He asked specifically about the sentence 夢は日本に住むことです。

For which my answer stands as already given.

[Charles Barkley]

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4) provides The Answer.

Tangible versus intangible.


I wish I could be provided the answer so easily, but sadly, I only have internet access at the schools I work at and it is quite restrictive. Videos are out of the question. Can you give me the gist (or another website)?

[Elizabeth]

I wish I could be provided the answer so easily, but sadly, I only have internet access at the schools I work at and it is quite restrictive. Videos are out of the question. Can you give me the gist (or another website)?
What text are you using ? This is pretty uniformly standard fare for any decent high beginner/low intermediate course work. And I'm curious also what was behind the initial assumption it should be もの？


こと as a noun = English translation Intangible, abstract thing. Concept, idea, matter, event, situation, act...

もの as a noun = English translation Tangible, concrete thing or person. Anything you can see and touch.

　

[orochi]

>> (私の)夢は日本に住むことです。 or 日本に住むことを夢見ています。

Charles

In these cases, the こと is acting as a nominalizer. Plain form of a verb plus こと makes it a noun. Then you can treat it as such.

So in this case, it turns the verb "live" （住む） into "to live" (住むこと).

It can help to think of this in English terms.

It is improper to say:

My dream is live in Japan.

To make this sentence work, we have to use the infinitive, "to live".

My dream is to live in Japan.

Much like we need to use the infinitive (to live) or the gerund (living) forms of verbs in English, similar nominalization must be made in Japanese.

[Charles Barkley]

Sorry-I guess I latched onto what was probably a too simplistic and perhaps even irrelevant problem to ask my own questions without adding any additional information about what exactly I was looking for in an answer. I just havent fared well asking about it in other threads.

My initial assumption was actually koto, but the reasoning was more from just having a feel for that kind of sentence rather than understanding why it couldn't be mono instead.

I'm not using any one principal text book right now. Using both the Kanzen Master and Unicom JLPT 2kyuu practice series,' intermediate guide to japanese grammar, among other textbooks/study materials.

There was never confusion about these kind of sentences before I learned the use of もの that is in the following sentences.

１）年を取るとだんだん足が弱くなるものです。 and

２）今日でもう５日間雨が降り続いている。全くよく降るものです。

In Unicom's　実力アップ日本語能力試験文法編 book, these two sentences are classified differently;

the first is defined as 一般的なこと　・　自然のこと　・　普通のことに使う

the second: 本当に～　　　実に～ (驚きや感心した気持ちを言う表現）

Without a teacher and these pretty poor explanations, I only have example sentences to try to figure it out on my own, and with mono I have not been able to do it.

Also, I don't understand the difference between ～というものです and ~と言うことです。

[Mike Cash]

The link was to MC Hammer's Can't Touch This.

[nekocat]

１）年を取るとだんだん足が弱くなるものです。

２）今日でもう５日間雨が降り続いている。全くよく降るものです。

前者も後者も「普遍的な傾向を表す」用法の「もの」です。
一方、「もの」にも「こと」にもともに、詠嘆・感嘆の用法と、そこから派生するさまざまな意味の用法があり ます。語源的にはどちらもまず「体言化（名詞化）」なのであり、そこから「感嘆・詠嘆」の効果があらわれま す。このことは日本語特有でもないと思います。

たとえば、日本語で「気をつけ！」とかの軍隊的命令。「気をつけ！」の場合は「気をつけろ」の語尾脱落なの かもしれません。
「まっすぐ歩く！」「ぼやぼやしない！」などは、基本形（終止形、体言止め）の形をとることによって「命令 」の意味を表せます。

これは日本語だけでなく、英語でも　Silence! Water the plant! など普通の命令法にも見られます。活用させてません。英語の命令法のばあいはスペイン語やドイツ語、そのほ かヨーロッパ言語に見られる接続法を命令法に使う伝統から来ているのかもしれませんが。

とにかく、英語においても体言・不定形が心理的なある効果（感嘆・詠嘆であれ、いわゆる「どきどき」の要素 では共通する「命令」であれ）を持つので、それらの文法の形が「命令」としても使われるのです 。

まとめ：「もの」も「こと」も体言化（名詞化）する文法要素であったし、今もそうである。体言化によりほか の形とは違った心理的効果をもつ。それが基本的な語義素で、そこからさまざまな意味が派生する。具体的な派 生的意味に関しては以下の辞書を参照。（ここでも体言止/名詞止によって「命令」「提案」の意味を出していますよね）

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%E2%A4%CE&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=2

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%E2%A4%CE&kind=jn&mode=0&kwassist=0

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%B3%A4%C8&kind=jn&mode=0&base=1&row=2

[Skullcrushergurl]

I hate all this kanji and hiragana I can't read!!
Watashi no yume wa Nihongo kurashite imasu...
Is that right?

[Mike Cash]

I hate all this kanji and hiragana I can't read!!
Watashi no yume wa Nihongo kurashite imasu...
Is that right?

No.

I'll help you out by providing romaji for Masaegu's post:

(私の)夢は日本に住むことです。 or 日本に住むことを夢見ています。

(Watashi no) yume ha nihon ni sumu koto desu.

or

Nihon ni sumu koto o yume mite imasu.