New Procedures in Entering Japan for Foreigners

[Chipi]

Something interesting and important for every non-Japanese who is going to go to Japan;


http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/prg/prg1203.html

When entering the country, you will have to from now on give your fingerprints, and have your picture taken at the immigration.

[nice gaijin]

I know the intentions are good, but I can't help but feel uneasy about this new policy.

[epigene]

I went through a nearly identical procedure to enter the US last year. :blush:

[Mikawa Ossan]

Well, I don't like it either, but as Epigene has alluded to, it's not just Japan. If you're going to complain about it in Japan, you should complain about it everywhere that has this policy.

[kenasto]

Something besides the controversial topic, interestingly the video clip features this one Asian looking gaijin wearing all black, who wants to refuse having his fingerprints and photo taken...

And it's funny that they make a video clip for foreigners and feature a Japanese speaker, just to snchronize her (in a pretty bad way) with an English speaker.

Let's be happy about it, it's for the safety of us! :souka:

[pipokun]

Related thread: Japan plans foreign fingerprinting (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22487)

The visa waiver program for South Koreans
Easier access for visa applicants of Chinese people

When one god (kami) abandons you, another takes you in.

[Chipi]

Yeah, I also went to New York a couple of years ago, and they had similar procedures at the airport. Fingerprints, iris photo and a "normal" photo. What I didn't like, was the hostile attitude of the American officials.

I don't mind these procedures, but it's good to know them, since you might have to queue longer to enter the country than before. And when you know it's a standard procedure for everyone, not just for you, it makes you feel less nervous :)

[w1ngzer0]

Yeah, I also went to New York a couple of years ago, and they had similar procedures at the airport. Fingerprints, iris photo and a "normal" photo. What I didn't like, was the hostile attitude of the American officials.
I don't mind these procedures, but it's good to know them, since you might have to queue longer to enter the country than before. And when you know it's a standard procedure for everyone, not just for you, it makes you feel less nervous :)

lol welcome to NY. That's how NY'ers are. :blush:

I honestly don't care if im scanned. As long as im not probed or chiped, im cool with it.

[Elizabeth]

Well, I don't like it either, but as Epigene has alluded to, it's not just Japan. If you're going to complain about it in Japan, you should complain about it everywhere that has this policy.
Because the US has, let's say, an 80-90% probability of further international terrorism within it's borders while Japan has maybe a 0-.02% chance of it happening even once on home soil. Why aren't these procedures being applied domestically ? The only attacks ever committed in that country have come from their own people. :blush:

[Mikawa Ossan]

In terms of America, I must defer to Collin Powell.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/09/colin-powell-te.html#more

In terms of Japan, I agree that terrorism from outside is probably not very likely in Japan, but I must commend them for being agressive in their precautions against it, even if I personally don't like some of the specifics.

-As I remember, two years ago, it was necessary to show ID in order to enter Narita airport via hotel shuttle bus.

-After 9/11, security was stepped up in major train stations.

-After the anthrax incidents in America, public institutions got a memo about it telling them what to look out for. I got one even though I was in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by mountains!

That's just what I've noticed.

[Elizabeth]

The bottom line is that terrorists are obviously smart enough to find ways of bypassing well-advertised preventative security measures and are able to recruit members with no tracable history. Japan doesn't have a sophisticated intelligence apparatus with officers that can penetrate shadowy Arabic and Middle Eastern operatives so fingerprinting and photos are high profile public measure to create the impression that something important is actually happening, and is being effective. It's the same in the US to some degree. Politicians tend to pick security measures that are visible even if they are less effective.

Now if they are after the real targets of catching foreign crime and visa overstays, that's quite another issue...:blush:

[kamaru]

Living in a country that's continuously knowing terrorist attacks I'd say such precautions are extremely necessary.
However, "shadowy Arabic and Middle Eastern" .... seems a very wrong generalization.:souka:

[Ewok85]

Its what left unsaid that worries me the most. No details on how this is used (Is it stored? How long? Who is ultimately in control? Who has access? What will this data be used for? etc). It also means that foreigners with Japanese spouses MUST split up and go through immigration seperately. It also means that even those, like yourself Mikawa, who until now have been allowed to go through the Japanese lines may no longer do that.
Meanwhile, I have to disagree (or else it would be a boring morning :) )
In terms of Japan, I agree that terrorism from outside is probably not very likely in Japan, but I must commend them for being agressive in their precautions against it, even if I personally don't like some of the specifics.
The Japanese reaction has been the equivilent of your neighbors being violently murdered in the night, and several years later you decide to start locking your front door at night. Too little, too late, to no effect.
Even in the UK where domestic terrorism is clear and imminent fingerprinting is still optional and being tested, even then not for just "foreigners", but for all. Actually being tested and properly implemented, not just tacked on as a political slogan to make Immigration look like its doing something for a change.
-As I remember, two years ago, it was necessary to show ID in order to enter Narita airport via hotel shuttle bus.
But anyone can walk off the train and into the station. Those carrying luggage may be required to show ID if security is about.
-After 9/11, security was stepped up in major train stations.
Which equals an officer with a riot sheild standing "guard" and telling people where platform 12 is, as well as removing or placeing see-through garbage bins - one solution being plain inconvenient, the other just plain amusing :)
-After the anthrax incidents in America, public institutions got a memo about it telling them what to look out for. I got one even though I was in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by mountains!
That's just what I've noticed.
And thats normal in Japan ;)
By far the most annoying braindead knee-jerk reaction we've had to suffer is the liquids in carryon luggage farce. Despite experts saying that the bomb plot last year was unfeasable (since it would take hours to create, creating fumes that would set off the built in smoke alarms) there is only one case of liquid explosives being used by terrorists in December 1994, Philippines Airline Flight 434, where the bomb succeeded only in killing the passenger sitting directly next to it and injuring the surrounding 5 passengers.
So despite a "successful" use of liquid explosives in 1994, it took until 2006 when an unfeasable "plot" was uncovered until we get the rediculous reaction of banning *all* liquids despite the only thing they need to be afraid of is acetone, which is a clear liquid with a distinct smell, which would have to be carried aboard in a large quantity to do any damage.

[JimmySeal]

What gets me is that people have to do this every time they enter or leave the country. Aren't they supposedly storing this information somewhere? I'd march down to my local town hall, offer up my ten digits and flash my pearly whites tomorrow if it meant avoiding long lines at the airport.

I do agree with Ewok's and similar opinions. Here are two debito entries on the matter:
http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=592
http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=454

[pipokun]

UK is an EU country, but the stricter immigration policy is conducted.
And I've never seen workaholic immigration staffs who starts immigration procedures for non-EU passport holders after they finish EU-passport holders. Sorry, if the things changed.
I highly doubt a Japanese wife could go to the EU lane unless she gets the UK passport.


Thank you for contacting the DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program.
Please check ALL the scenarios that describe your travel experience.
https://trip.dhs.gov/

[Glenski]

Have heard that they will keep the fingerprints and photo information for about 15 years!

And, this is not as nice and safe as you might like to think. No terrorist act in Japan has ever been caused by foreigners. So, why print and photo just us? This is not like what you get in the USA!

[Taiko666]

I know the intentions are good

I don't think creating a ludicrous, discriminatory, degrading, dangerous law to fingerprint foreigners just to pretend to Japanese voters that you're getting tough on those nasty gaijins is indicative of 'good intentions.'

Please don't confuse this xenophobic measure with any sort of sincere attempt to combat terrorism.

[Ewok85]

If they were in any way serious or had good intentions, all incoming passengers would be fingerprinted and photographed (whats to stop a foreigner with asian features entering the country with a stolen/fake passport?), at ALL airports that accept international flights. Remember - this is ONLY at Narita.

[Dutch Baka]

Okay, they get your fingerprints and photo which takes time and is kind of annoying. But.... isn't that all?

What's dangerous about it? Can they make mistakes with fingerprints? etc?

[Taiko666]

Okay, they get your fingerprints and photo which takes time and is kind of annoying. But.... isn't that all?

What's dangerous about it? Can they make mistakes with fingerprints? etc?

Imagine a robbery at a conbini. The police will take fingerprints and try to find matches. Since their database will only hold the prints of a) Japanese criminals and b) foreigners, the likelihood is that any foreigner who'd been unfortunate to purchase anything at that conbini that day and who wasn't wearing gloves would be hauled in and perhaps treated to a 26 day interrogation. A little paranoid? Perhaps... but please consider the modus operandi of the Japanese police.

And then there's the tendency for police data to go missing... who knows what sort of id fraud could be possible if criminals get hold of your prints.

And fingerprint mismatches *can* occur... I'm not happy at the prospect of my prints being compared to prints collected from major crime scenes.

[Dutch Baka]

Any news items, that proves Fingerprints can mismatch or other stuff regarding to fingerprints that is important inside this thread?

[Han Chan]

Imagine a robbery at a conbini. The police will take fingerprints and try to find matches. Since their database will only hold the prints of a) Japanese criminals and b) foreigners, the likelihood is that any foreigner who'd been unfortunate to purchase anything at that conbini that day and who wasn't wearing gloves would be hauled in and perhaps treated to a 26 day interrogation. A little paranoid? Perhaps... but please consider the modus operandi of the Japanese police.
This a very good example of one of the likely effects of the new procedure.

My main problem is, that I do like beeing seen as a posible/likely criminal merely because i am foreigner. I my own country I have been appointed as civil judge because people in my community regard me as a trustworthy and honest. When I go to Japan I will be treated as a suspect person.
:mad:

[pipokun]

The measure is based upon the UN resolution, so I don't think it is xenophobic one. The liberal heads in Japan tends to love the UN, so it is the win-win for both sides.

[Taiko666]

The measure is based upon the UN resolution, so I don't think it is xenophobic one. The liberal heads in Japan tends to love the UN, so it is the win-win for both sides.

Come on pipokun, do you really believe that this is really just a counter-terrorism measure? If so, it's a half-baked, pointless and ill-advised measure cooked up by politicians who have no grasp of reality.

And what's more, it was only narrowly passed in the Diet, suggesting that most liberal politicians were against it. And the Japanese Bar Association vigorously opposes it. That's in addition to the severe criticism from the UN.

[Glenski]

Remember - this is ONLY at Narita.
Why do you say that, Ewok? All the news I've seen says "immigration checkpoints" (plural). No individual city has been mentioned, that I know of. Narita isn't the only site of entry into Japan.

[bakaKanadajin]

hmmm

time to start using my dual citizenship!

[Chris K]

i dont know if i just imagined this,but don't Japan have troops out in the middle east supporting America?? If so, then they do have reason to fear a foreign terrorist attack.
HAving said that, 'ZOMG!! Terrorism!!!!!' is 2nd place on the list of uncontestable excuses to errode civil liberties and give police draconian powers. About 99% of the time these powers are used not againt terrorists but everyday citizens especially 'political dissidents'. The scenario offered earlier of a tourist getting a tug simply because he visited a premise that was later robbed seems all too real.
End of the day Police departments should only keep records of criminals, the rest of the populace does not concern them

[pipokun]

Come on pipokun, do you really believe that this is really just a counter-terrorism measure? If so, it's a half-baked, pointless and ill-advised measure cooked up by politicians who have no grasp of reality.
And what's more, it was only narrowly passed in the Diet, suggesting that most liberal politicians were against it. And the Japanese Bar Association vigorously opposes it. That's in addition to the severe criticism from the UN.
Show me the source that the severe criticism by the UN.
Thank you for your input.

About the Bar Asssociation or liberal media, the measure does not affect their job.
If the measure were something like...
More foreign immigraiton lawers in Japan...
Abolishing the infamous kisha club, and more access for foreign media on this issue...
then they would get silent abnormally.

[Taiko666]

Show me the source that the severe criticism by the UN.

Unfortunately the main article has been deleted

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/372983

But I can quote him as saying that Japan's fingerprinting law "illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners all over the world"

(I can find no other links. In Japan, matters relating to Japan's xenophobia are hardly ever reported. Outside Japan, they're only occasionally reported, which is good for Japan's international reputation, bad for Japan's foreign residents.)

Whatever statement the UN may have made on combating terrorism, Japan has just used (abused) it to indulge in its fetish of trying to control (read: humiliate & stigmatise) foreigners in Japan as much as possible.

[pipokun]

Just his personal opinion, isn't it?
If his opinion were the official UN statement, please ask him to show off his opinon somewhere, preferably in the UN website. I want to do it, but you are the right guy with your English skill.
He should, at least, tackle with the trafic jam problem in NY now.

If the measure were for the gaijin with North Korean gaijin looks, it must be the xenophobia.

Stupid Japanese drug smugglers have been sentenced to death in an Asian country.
Stupid Asian drug smagglers have been arrested in Osaka, and they will be in jail for 10 years or so.

[Han Chan]

Unfortunately the main article has been deleted
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/372983
But I can quote him as saying that Japan's fingerprinting law "illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners all over the world"

I found a copy of the above mentioned article by Googling:

U.N. rapporteur raps Japan’s law on fingerprinting foreigners
May 18, 2006
A special U.N. rapporteur on racism on Thursday criticized Japan’s new immigration legislation on fingerprinting and photographing all foreign visitors as a process of treating foreigners like criminals.

Doudou Diene, on his last day of a six-day visit to Japan to conduct a follow-up of his report on racism, said at a press conference in Tokyo the immigration bill that just passed the Diet on Wednesday “illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners” all over the world, he added.

[Glenski]

i dont know if i just imagined this,but don't Japan have troops out in the middle east supporting America?? If so, then they do have reason to fear a foreign terrorist attack.
I don't think this alone is a reason for Japan to say they are in jeopardy of terrorist attacks. Japan might think so (haven't heard an official word on this one, and I doubt you'll get one), but how do you account for the fact that only non-Japanese are being fingerprinted and photographed when only Japanese people have performed terrorist acts in Japan?

Japan rightfully should worry about North Koreans entering here, due to the kidnapping, but not all kidnap victims were taken from Japanese soil. Look at the Japanese reporters and HS student who naively went into Baghdad and got caught (thankfully released) in 2004, too:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20040416a1.html

What about the Red Army?
These members attacked overseas (non-Japanese) embassies, so I guess they don't pose a threat to Japan http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070510a1.html
but what about these?
Involved in kidnapping Japanese citizens http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070512a3.html
Involved in hijacking a Paris-Tokyo airlines jet http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20030228b6.html

What about Aum Shinrikyo?
Need I remind you of the sarin gas attack on Japanese soil, caused by Japanse citizens, not foreigners? Just more evidence that not just we non-Japanese are capable of terrorism.

Or, how do you explain the fact that non-Japanese special residents (Koreans and Chinese) are not even given citizenship here, yet they are exempt from such scrutinization? You can't have it both ways. Chinese are often considered (rightly or wrongly) as being sources of crimes in Japan, yet these special Chinese won't get filed, indexed, and photographed. Also, non-Korean and non-Chinese foreign permanent residents (like me) who may have lived here as long or longer than those special residents will still have to wait in line! Totally unfair, don't you think?

[pipokun]

U.N. rapporteur raps Japan’s law on fingerprinting foreigners
May 18, 2006
A special U.N. rapporteur on racism on Thursday criticized Japan’s new immigration legislation on fingerprinting and photographing all foreign visitors as a process of treating foreigners like criminals.
Doudou Diene, on his last day of a six-day visit to Japan to conduct a follow-up of his report on racism, said at a press conference in Tokyo the immigration bill that just passed the Diet on Wednesday “illustrates something I have been denouncing in my reports for four years. It is the fact that, especially since Sept 11, there has been a process of criminalization of foreigners” all over the world, he added.
Just his opinion. I've never heard the UN does something for the US procedures.

Glenski
Or, how do you explain the fact that non-Japanese special residents (Koreans and Chinese) are not even given citizenship here,
You are just wrong. They just prefer their Korean citizenship.
About the unfairness, you're right. They should be treated equally if they don't like the Japanese citizenship.

Also, non-Korean and non-Chinese foreign permanent residents (like me) who may have lived here as long or longer than those special residents will still have to wait in line!
Wrong. Did your grand-parents or parents live in Japan and refuse to be naturalised here for more than 60 years?

[White Girl]

I don't really care about procedures, personally. It's all just bureaucracy crap. Whether the person who decided for these regulations is racist or not, who can tell. I can't read their minds, so I won't assume that it is. They might just be copying the U.S., which has a completely retarded immigration system. I think being fingerprinted is kind of fun. It looks all technologically advanced and stuff. They can take my picture if they want too. I'll try to look my cutest so maybe the immigration guy can put it on his wall <3

[Han Chan]

A Special U.N. Rapporteur on Racism is not just anybody - he is a very highranking International UN Civil Servant reporting to the UN General Secretary! When says something it is not merely his personal opinion, he is a diplomat repressenting UN.

Here is a story from when USA started fingerprinting and photographing forigners on entry: There are two important things to notice: 1) the procedures does not apply to citizens from countries like Canada and EU countries "whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas". 2) Brazil made similar rules specifically targeted at US citizens as retaliation! This could also happen to japanese citizens.

Quote:
"January 07, 2004

U.S. Airports Now Fingerprint Foreigners

CHICAGO (AP) - Foreigners arriving at U.S. airports were photographed and had their fingerprints scanned Monday in the start of a government effort to use some of the latest surveillance technology to keep terrorists out of the country.

The program allows Customs officials to check passengers instantly against terrorist watch lists and a national criminal database.

The goal is to "make sure our borders are open to visitors but closed to terrorists," Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said.

The changes came as the United States entered a third consecutive week on high alert for terrorism, including especially tight security involving foreign flights. Fourteen flights on British Airways, Aeromexico and Air France have been canceled or delayed since New Year's Eve because of security fears.

Under the new rules, travelers press their index fingers onto an inkless scanner and then have their photograph taken as they make their way through customs.

The security checks target foreigners entering the 115 U.S. airports that handle international flights, as well as 14 major seaports. The only exceptions will be visitors from 27 countries mostly European nations whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas.

Also exempted will be most Canadians, because they usually are not required to get visas, and Mexicans who are coming into the country for a short time and not venturing far from the border.

The program, called US-VISIT, or U.S. Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology, is expected to check up to 24 million foreigners each year, though some will be repeat visitors.

"America has been and will always be a welcoming country, but we will also be on guard," Ridge said at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, where he greeted some of the first foreign passengers to pass through the system.

In a pilot program at Hartsfield-Jackson that preceded Monday's nationwide implementation, authorities turned up 21 people on the FBI's criminal watch list for such crimes as drug offenses, rape and visa fraud, Ridge said.

Homeland Security spokesman Bill Strassberger said that once screeners become proficient, the extra security will take 10 to 15 seconds per person.

Airport officials and passengers reported little fuss over the security checks, and many said they did not mind the extra steps if it meant safer skies. Passengers reported only minor delays, if any, in passing through customs checkpoints.

"We all want to go on a flight knowing we're going to arrive safely," said Layal Rashid, 22, a Cyprus resident who arrived at Chicago's O'Hare Airport on a flight from Frankfurt, Germany. "It puts your mind at ease to know that the security is stricter now."

But some foreign travelers were taken aback by the rules, and worried about a system that tracks their movements.

"We're not used to having our fingerprint and photo taken and it being filed. Who knows what they can do with that?" said Carlos Elizondo, who came to Dallas-Fort Worth Airport on a flight from Monterrey, Mexico.

Under the program, photographs go into a law-enforcement database that eventually will allow users to pull up photos of visa holders and make sure they match the person who is seeking to enter the country. The travel data is supposed to be securely stored and made available only to authorized officials on a need-to-know basis.

Foreigners also will be checked as they leave the country as an extra security measure and to ensure they have not overstayed their visa or violated other restrictions.

A similar program is to be installed at 50 land border crossings by the end of next year.

Nishith Shah, who arrived at Boston's Logan Airport from India, said he was comfortable with the process because it did not take long. But he said he hopes it does not lead to further restrictions on foreigners.

"Is it going to stop here?" Shah said.

In Brazil, meanwhile, the Foreign Ministry started fingerprinting and photographing arriving Americans last week in retaliation. U.S. citizens waited for hours Monday to be photographed and fingerprinted at Rio's international airport.

"As far as reciprocity, Brazil has every right to do this," said Claire Fallender, a 27-year-old American sociologist from Boston, who said she had been waiting for five hours. "The only problem is without the technology to process people, it's causing frustration and losing the point of protesting American policy."

End of Quote.

[pipokun]

Han Chan, I like your posts, but please use the quote tag. And I don't know what you are going to say about the old article.
Another new procedure in the US is to fill out the online form before we leave, though they also hear complaints.

A Special U.N. Rapporteur on Racism is not just anybody - he is a very highranking International UN Civil Servant reporting to the UN General Secretary!
OK, tell me if he reported the ultra-xenophobic measure to the UN or not.
First, he should try to abolish the anti-terror UN resolution.

[Glenski]

Wrong. Did your grand-parents or parents live in Japan and refuse to be naturalised here for more than 60 years?
I know several people who have lived here more than 15-20 years. They will have to be printed and photo'd. That's longer than some Chinese or Koreans here.

[pipokun]

Maybe you take the special permanent residence status a bit different.

No matter how much anime/manga-loving Chinese or Korean people come to Japan now, their resident status is not the special one like some Korean or Taiwanese people here. It is the same as yours.
So the length of time does not matter, just how loud pressure groups you belong to.

Momofuku Ando was the great ramen father and he chose the Taiwanese citizenship after the war at first, but he came back to Japan and founded the great ramen company.
Anyways, I don't know when the two Koreas will be unified, but hopefully the unusual unequality would be solved after the unification.

[Glenski]

Maybe you take the special permanent residence status a bit different.That's because immigration considers them different and exempt from this printing/photoing.

No matter how much anime/manga-loving Chinese or Korean people come to Japan now, their resident status is not the special one like some Korean or Taiwanese people here. It is the same as yours.I realize that. I think it is you who misunderstand me now.

So the length of time does not matter, just how loud pressure groups you belong to.I belong to no pressure group at all except for the fact that I am a foreigner with permanent resident status here, and I see us as being treated unfairly in this case. Don't you?

[Sparky]

Well I think it was inevitable. The Japanese authorities are always bringing up ways to discriminate foreigners. An example was just after 911 police were allowed to stop me anywhere anytime and rummage through my backpack in Tokyo train stations. I know this because I was stopped 6 times over a 3 month period in Ikebukuro station by 2 police officers. They would in the middle of the station with everyone passing by rummage through my bag empty some of the contents then say ok you can go leaving me too re-pack my "school books" and try and run to my train, which of course I had now missed.

On another incident soeone got stabbed near a bank in my city "Fuchu." 1 week after the incident 2 detectives came to my apartment and started asking me questions. I showed them prrof of where I had been and what I did during the time. They were polite, but in the end they asked for my finger prints, noted my shoe size, and brand name. All in all a pretty freaky experience. I asked why they came to my door. There reply was that were going door-to-door, and talking with everyone in the area. hmm, I am still skeptical about that one!

[pipokun]

That's because immigration considers them different and exempt from this printing/photoing.
I realize that. I think it is you who misunderstand me now.
I belong to no pressure group at all except for the fact that I am a foreigner with permanent resident status here, and I see us as being treated unfairly in this case. Don't you?

You may think...
Chinese/Korean people in their countries now come to Japan as a permanent resident, then the special zainichi status is granted.
But it is wrong. They are treated as same as you, the printing/photoing.

Don't worry. I don't know how many anti-G8 activists will come to Hokkaido next year, but it is your right to be loud, Japanese or non-Japanese, here.

[Glenski]

You may think...
Chinese/Korean people in their countries now come to Japan as a permanent resident, then the special zainichi status is granted.
But it is wrong. I don't think anything of the sort. So, it is clear you really don't understand what I'm telling you.

Zainichi status is for the Chinese or Koreans who were born here, not for visitors. They don't have citizenship, yet they are exempt from being printed/photoed. I think this is wrong. Don't you?

[Mike Cash]

Imagine a robbery at a conbini. The police will take fingerprints and try to find matches. Since their database will only hold the prints of a) Japanese criminals and b) foreigners, the likelihood is that any foreigner who'd been unfortunate to purchase anything at that conbini that day and who wasn't wearing gloves would be hauled in and perhaps treated to a 26 day interrogation. A little paranoid? Perhaps... but please consider the modus operandi of the Japanese police.


I like to think myself pretty well informed on the M.O. of the Japanese police. So first off I will point out that the maximum hold is 23 days, not 26.

Your scenario isn't so much paranoia as it is ludicrous hyperbole.

[Taiko666]

I like to think myself pretty well informed on the M.O. of the Japanese police. So first off I will point out that the maximum hold is 23 days, not 26.

Apologies for the factual error. When I was more of a nervous poster I used to check the minutiae of my posts for accuracy and validity, but recently I've become more relaxed and less guarded, which brings us to

Your scenario isn't so much paranoia as it is ludicrous hyperbol.

Well, that's the danger if an issue gets one's goat as much as this does mine. I'm still sure there are many ways for foreigners' biometrics to be mis-used, through incompetence or otherwise.

[Calchas]

In the state I live in, here in the US, you need to get fingerprinted and, of course, get your photo take when getting your drivers license. So I don't see this as that big a deal unless it takes more then a few mins to get processed.

I will be going to Japan and China next year, so will get a chance to see this for myself.

[Glenski]

In the state I live in, here in the US, you need to get fingerprinted and, of course, get your photo take when getting your drivers license. So I don't see this as that big a deal unless it takes more then a few mins to get processed.
I will be going to Japan and China next year, so will get a chance to see this for myself.
How would you feel if you had to do that every time you got into your car or every time you drove home? It's a big deal.

Only foreigners other than the Zaiinichi get this done every time they come to Japan, even if they have attained permanent resident status. It's unfair and discriminatory. If the reason for this is for public safety, then why don't the Zaiinichi get printed/photoed, and why don't the biggest offenders living in Japan (the Japanese themselves) get this treatment? This is not the USA where someone from the outside attacked them on 9/11. And, in case you hadn't read above, Japan had just stopped the fingerprinting, but now they want to reinstate it!?

Oh, and I am also from the USA and never got fingerprinted for my license in the 3 states in which I lived, so it is not a natural thing.

[Han Chan]

In the state I live in, here in the US, you need to get fingerprinted and, of course, get your photo take when getting your drivers license. So I don't see this as that big a deal unless it takes more then a few mins to get processed.
Wait a minute, the issue is not first and foremost that fingerprints and photos are taken and kept in some archive, though this can be troubling enough in its self. The insulting part is that it is only forigners - gaijin who are subject to this procedure. It seem like discrimination, and certainly in it self will reinforce stereotypical suspision towards forigners in Japan.

I do not mind giving my fingerprints and having photos taken, but I do mind ending up in some archive and beeing singled out as a potential terror suspect! It is insulting!

[mr.sumo.snr]

I couldn't fathom from that video or any of the posts here if these machines are going to be placed only in lines for foreign passport holders. If so, do re-entry permit holders now have to line up with all the other plebs? That WOULD be an inconvenience. Anyone have the details on that aspect of these new laws?

I find it most amusing that the Japan Immigration Office used a Japanese staffer to translate the dialogue for the video. It sounded like a high school student's class presentation about the threat of world terrorism. Has anyone found a link for the Japanese version of the video?

As video started and the announcer states: "We have an important notice for foreign visitors traveling to Japan...." I initially breathed a sign of relief thinking that it WASN'T going to affect me since I'm NOT a visitor – "sukker"!

--

[sigmentofb]

I believe someone told me that in order to be a citizen of Japan, you have to renounce your other citizenships. Is this true or not?

[Ewok85]

I couldn't fathom from that video or any of the posts here if these machines are going to be placed only in lines for foreign passport holders. If so, do re-entry permit holders now have to line up with all the other plebs? That WOULD be an inconvenience. Anyone have the details on that aspect of these new laws?

YES. And I've been saying it from the start - you can no longer go through the "Japanese" side of immigrations when entering the country. So all of you with a spouse, and with children, have to split up and potentially wait up to an hour (and I might remind you there is nowhere to sit and wait, etc).

I believe someone told me that in order to be a citizen of Japan, you have to renounce your other citizenships. Is this true or not?

Correct. Japan does not allow dual citizenship.

[mr.sumo.snr]

I believe someone told me that in order to be a citizen of Japan, you have to renounce your other citizenships. Is this true or not?

Bit of a tangent. But yes you do have to renounce your other citizenships.

However, I quote from UK Home Office guidelines: "A person who renounces British citizenship has a right (once only) to resume that citizenship if the renunciation was necessary to enable him or her to keep or obtain some other citizenship. A person who renounces British citizenship more than once, or for any other reason, may be allowed to resume that citizenship if the Home Secretary thinks fit."

So roughly translated you seriously have to go out of you way to STOP being a UK national.

--

--

[SouthernBelle82]

I don't think that's really a big deal personally. They just want to keep a check on who's in the country and have you accounted for that you're there. Someone might be looking for you for some reason and they put out a memo and than the people at immigration can see if you're there etc. As long as they aren't doing like the NSA here in the States and keeping information on people than I wouldn't worry too much. It just sounds like they're wanting to add you to the records. Does the Japanese government spy on it's people?

[Mike Cash]

Well, that's the danger if an issue gets one's goat as much as this does mine. I'm still sure there are many ways for foreigners' biometrics to be mis-used, through incompetence or otherwise.

No argument there. I was only referring to the specific scenario you mentioned.

[Calchas]

How would you feel if you had to do that every time you got into your car or every time you drove home? It's a big deal.
Only foreigners other than the Zaiinichi get this done every time they come to Japan, even if they have attained permanent resident status. It's unfair and discriminatory. If the reason for this is for public safety, then why don't the Zaiinichi get printed/photoed, and why don't the biggest offenders living in Japan (the Japanese themselves) get this treatment? This is not the USA where someone from the outside attacked them on 9/11. And, in case you hadn't read above, Japan had just stopped the fingerprinting, but now they want to reinstate it!?
Oh, and I am also from the USA and never got fingerprinted for my license in the 3 states in which I lived, so it is not a natural thing.

In America I often get stopped at night and asked for ID by the local police many times not but a few feet from my home. I am use to small annoyances such as this so to me its no big deal.

In anycase your question is silly as I have already mentioned "how I feel" about the situation. When ever security gets tighter processes become harder or more bothersome its the price you pay for more security. These new "bothersome" procedures don't bother me at all. I don't live in Japan nor do I have any desire to do so. I simply do not care what the Japanese do with my photo and fingerprints.

You are of course free to feel otherwise but don't think yours is the only way to look at it. That brands you as a fool. Perhaps you should do whatever "japanese" do in a public setting to try to get the goverment to prove that the added procedures increase security or help show that it has no effect what so ever and should be dropped.

But debating with me here does nothing to change my mind nor help to advance your cause of getting rid of the " discriminatory" procedures.

Good luck to you.

[Glenski]

Southern Belle,
Your consulate/embassy can keep track of you in case of emergency. It is not up to immigration to do that. Different bureaucracy. You can't expect foreigners to call up immigration after an earthquake and ask Japanese-speaking officials where your friend/family member is.

Calchas,
The fact that you do not live in Japan pretty much makes your arguments here moot. I agree to disagree with you (and not call you a fool). Strongly disagree. Oh, and by debating here I was not attempting to change the discriminatory system. That would be foolish! I, like others, was just trying to educate people.

I am curious, though, as to why you would be stopped for ID in the USA? Are you some sort of obvious immigrant or visible threat?

[rowiko]

This new law raises so many issues, and I fail to see why Japan has to go down the same path as the U.S.
What infuriates me, as a long-term resident with permanent residence status, most, however, is the almost complete lack of proper information from the authorities and the mis-information in the press. Newspaper articles recently stated that permanent residents would be exempt, but as it turns out, that only applies to the "special" permanent residents with Japanese ancestry, not the "regular" ones. Those, it says in the official information from the Immigration Bureau, have to queue up along with all other foreign nationals and be fingerprinted and photographed each time they re-enter Japan.
At the same time, however, they are apparently testing an automated system, which will allow people like us to register our biometric data only once and be able to go through simpler immigration procedures - at least at Narita. Try as I might, however, I was not able to find any information on that in English!
If I have to provide the authorities with my fingerprints and photograph, so be it (despite the privacy issues it raises), but as long as I'm not scrutinized like a first-time visitor every time I come back from abroad, I guess I can live with it. So why aren't we properly informed about these things and need to get enraged because we have to draw our conclusions based on incomplete or inaccurate information?
Actually, the authorities already have our data on file anyway, so I view it as their duty to send a letter to each and everyone of us, informing us properly about the implications this new law will have for us. I think permanent residents deserve to be informed!

[Glenski]

Looks like they have updated the video.
Male British voice.
No Japanese person with the English dubbed over.
No smarmy foreigners oohing and aahing over the explanations.
MUCH fewer explanations (none as to why this is being done)!
Demonstrations of the fingerprinting.

http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/prg/prg1431.html

Oh, and I still object to being called a "visitor" here, with my status as permanent resident.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Would you prefer being called an "alien"?

[rowiko]

I don't want to be called neither a "visitor" nor an "alien". What would be wrong with
"foreign national"? It would be so simple, stating the fact, and politically correct.

[Glenski]

I'm an alien, foreign national, an alien resident, and permanent resident. I have not left the country in years. If I did, I would not return to Japan to "visit"; I would return to living here.

[mr.sumo.snr]

Looks like they have updated the video.
Male British voice....Oh, and I still object to being called a "visitor" here, with my status as permanent resident.

It's a definite improvement. All they need to do now is install a couple of those machines at the counters for Japanese nationals and allow re-entry permit holders to use them.

--

[Glenski]

What do you mean "allow reentry permit holders to use them"? They are required to use them!

[mr.sumo.snr]

I want a separate line for re-entry permit holders. A line for re-entry permit holders alone might be a bit overkill - so why not add a couple of the machines to the counters for Japanese nationals (who of course wouldn't have to use them). We can then continue to line up with the other 'residents'. You get my drift?

--

[Glenski]

There will be no additional lines. Japanese go through the Japanese line. Everyone else, including PR and spouse visa holders go in the tourist lines. Everything will be slower, and if you have a J spouse toting kids or extra baggage, good luck on getting immigration to allow him/her in the same line as you.

why not add a couple of the machines to the counters for Japanese nationals (who of course wouldn't have to use them). We can then continue to line up with the other 'residents'.Because that would make sense. To date, such a thing has not even been hinted at. I wouldn't expect it.

[pipokun]

Soon after the Japanese line finshes, the immigration officer starts the non-Japanese line.
I don't know if this would end under the new immigration procedure. Just wait and see what will happen.

[rowiko]

"Wait and see" actually does appear to be the only thing we can do!
I asked someone (Japanese) to check with the authorities again about the exact procedures to be adopted next month. What she came back with was nothing at all! Nobody has (or discloses) any information about those machines. All they are apparently saying is that trials are in progress ... still. With little more than a month to go now. The thinking behind it seems to be: "Let's implement the law first, and then we can still think of what to do with those re-entry permit holders"... If in the meantime they get caught up in long queues along with all the tourists - tough luck, right?

[Ewok85]

Pffft, we're all just visitors unless you naturalise, at which point its a whole different ball game (as Debito found out).

[mr.sumo.snr]

Interesting Letter To The Editor (Daily Yomiuri, Saturday October 20th). (not published online so OCR'd and reprinted below)

"As a permanent resident of Japan who makes around a dozen international business trips annually, I share Terrie Lloyd's frustration over the new entry procedures at Narita Airport and other ports of entry ("Fingerprinting for Foreigners is Back," Page 20, Oct. 17).

Like Mr. Lloyd I find it incongruous that the very same government that deemed me suitable to live here "eternally" (the meaning of the "ei" in "eiju") would now implicitly suspect me of being a threat to the national interests of this land I have called home for more than 20 years. The lack of sufficient news coverage has also not helped.

In any case, on a recent trip through Narita Airport, I stopped to have a chat with the immigration supervisor who told me two things that potentially make the situation more bearable. First, there will be separate queues for returning visa holders and tourists. Second, on the first re-entry after the new procedures take effect visa holders will effectively be "registered" and will receive some sort of card that, when produced at the time of future re-entries, will speed up the process.

Not a perfect solution, but perhaps one we can live with for the time it takes the government to acknowledge all the negative effects Mr. Lloyd pointed out."

When I had my 'chat' with Aichi regional immigration bureau they made it clear PRs would have to line up in the same queues as 'true' visitors. Something tells me they're making this up as they go along!

--

[Goldiegirl]

When does this new system start? Maybe i overlooked something. I just came through Narita and nothing was different...well except this time there were all these officers with sniffing dogs. I have never seen that many dogs at an airport. They were between immigration and customs. I actually felt a little intimidated.

[Han Chan]

When does this new system start? Maybe i overlooked something. I just came through Narita and nothing was different...well except this time there were all these officers with sniffing dogs. I have never seen that many dogs at an airport. They were between immigration and customs. I actually felt a little intimidated.
The new procedures will be started in one month - 20th november.:(
I will get a chance to try it for my new year holiday. I really hope that I will not have a "bad hair day" when I reach Narita!:relief:

[Goldiegirl]

Thank-you Han Chan. I know what you mean about having a bad hair day. I try to refresh my make-up and hair before getting off the plane, but somehow I still look like tired and travel weary. I can't wait for them to take my picture. I close my eyes in every picture. i don't know why but it is irritating to who ever is trying to take a photo of me. I had 6 pictures taken to get one where my eyes were at least half way open for my drivers license!

[Sharingan]

When will we have to have DNA test to enter a country ?

[Glenski]

Don't worry about the makeup or whether your eyes are open fully. The facial pic is meant for a little higher level analysis of bone structure.

[pipokun]

When will we have to have DNA test to enter a country ?

Before the DNA test...
Japan would probably ask visa applicants for the police report like the US and European nations do.
And next she would request the fingerprint and the interview for visa application like the US does.
Lastly she would change the visa application fee. Now it is free for most people now.

[Han Chan]

Before the DNA test...
Japan would probably ask visa applicants for the police report like the US and European nations do.

We all know that many US citizens have become paranoid since 9/11. However, many US citizens find that many of the new initiatives there do more to harm peoples privacy than to prevent terror. Actually mostly europeans and japanese are not required to give their fingerprint when entering US: Quote from: http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2004/Jan/05-770667.html) "Only visitors entering the United States with a visa are subject to the new requirements. The visa waiver program -- an agreement maintained with 27 nations -- allows travelers to enter the United States without obtaining a visa, so they will not be subject to biometric checks in the immediate future. Citizens of these same nations entering to work or study are still required to have a visa, however, and also will be subject to the new requirements.
:-)
The visa waiver program countries: Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and The United Kingdom.

I have not heard of any european country which asks for police report for normal visa applications. Actually japanese are granted 3 month visa upon entry to a Schengen country - no questions asked.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement) :wave:

Maybe the procedures will become more complicated for japanese citizens in the future, as a retaliation for treating european tourists as potential terrorists. Unfortunately the diplomatic game is often tit for tat.

I certainly hope that the european countries and Japan will continue their friendly diplomatic relations, but if enough european citizens feel humiliated because of the new procedures, these people might urge the european politicians to give Japan a diplomatic slap in the face.

[Taiko666]

"Only visitors entering the United States with a visa are subject to the new requirements. The visa waiver program -- an agreement maintained with 27 nations -- allows travelers to enter the United States without obtaining a visa, so they will not be subject to biometric checks in the immediate future. Citizens of these same nations entering to work or study are still required to have a visa, however, and also will be subject to the new requirements.


I'm afraid that info is woefully out of date...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3595221.stm

[Sharingan]

Before the DNA test...
Japan would probably ask visa applicants for the police report like the US and European nations do.
And next she would request the fingerprint and the interview for visa application like the US does.
Lastly she would change the visa application fee. Now it is free for most people now.

What is this police report ? Is it only for people who need a visa before going to the country ? I never heard that Japanese or American people needed it to come to Europe.

Visa application is free in Japan ? Do you mean the application or the visa itself once the application is accepted ?

[Han Chan]

I'm afraid that info is woefully out of date...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3595221.stm
I see. Anyway I do not feel keen to go there as long as the authorities treat forigners as potential terrorists. I think I would not like to be among paranoid patriotic poeple who regard common tourists as potential terrorists.

So far all terrorism in Japan were committed by japanese, but now forigners will be treated with suspision.

[pipokun]

What is this police report ?
Your government describe it as follows:
6. A certificate of good conduct (or the local equivalent of this document) if you are over 21 (or 18 if you are going to study at a private educational establishment) dating from no more than six months prior to the date of application and covering the previous five years.
http://www.diplomatie.be/en/travel/visa/visumFicheDetail.asp?TEXTID=43169


The visa fee
http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/visa/visa_fee.pdf

The reason why the fee for Iranian people is a bit more expensive, 23GBP for a single visa, must be that the Iranian visa has been one of the most difficult and expensive one for Japanese nationals to get it. It has nothing to do with the current politics at all.

[Taiko666]

I see. Anyway I do not feel keen to go there as long as the authorities treat forigners as potential terrorists. I think I would not like to be among paranoid patriotic poeple who regard common tourists as potential terrorists.
So far all terrorism in Japan were committed by japanese, but now forigners will be treated with suspision.

Indeed... when the US started fingerprinting I decided I'd never go there again unless absolutely necessary.

[Pachipro]

Indeed... when the US started fingerprinting I decided I'd never go there again unless absolutely necessary.
In the not to distant future ALL countries will require it. It's the way things are becoming, and not only fingerprints, look for stories that will require DNA also. The goal is to have everyones DNA on record. They will use the farce "in the name of safety" and they will first start with criminals and pedophiles for which the majority of people will be all for it. When the news and politicians are quoted as saying "It's for the children" be wary, be VERY wary.

[ArmandV]

In the not to distant future ALL countries will require it. It's the way things are becoming, and not only fingerprints, look for stories that will require DNA also. The goal is to have everyones DNA on record. They will use the farce "in the name of safety" and they will first start with criminals and pedophiles for which the majority of people will be all for it.

I had to mail a VHS tape with a CD-Rom to my cousin yesterday and since it is over 10 ounces with postage stamps, I can't just pop it into the mailbox anymore, now I have to go and hand it to a post office clerk. It is the sign of the times we live in.

I don't have a problem with fingerprinting, BTW.

When the news and politicians are quoted as saying "It's for the children" be wary, be VERY wary.

Thanks to the Clintons, you are exactly right!

[Ewok85]

My company just sent an email to all employees in Japan (lots) regarding the change.

The only new part was "Line at immigration counters according to your status. There will now be three types of counters: (1) non-Japanese, (2) non-Japanese who hold re-entry permits, (3) Japanese citizens." and "自らの身分に応じて入国カウンターにお進み下さい。カウンターは3種類あります。(1) 外国人 (2) 再入国許可を持った外国人 (3) 日本人"

I'd take it on fairly good authority that what mr.sumo.snr wanted is going to happen :)

[Petaris]

I think that it is degrading and humiliating to be treated as a criminal when entering another country as a visitor. I am a US citizen and I am certainly not above criticizing the US for doing the same. Also when I travel alone its one thing, but if I go to Japan with my wife (Japanese citizen) and our kids (dual citizens until 21) I will find it extremely rude to have to be split up from them when entering the country. At least when we return they will be in the same line as myself as she will have legal permanent residence status.

I am not married yet but will be soon (next month) so I can see this as being quite a hassle when we travel back to see her family. Also I agree with the sentiments of others here that it just re-enforces a "foreigners are bad" ideology. Wait until my kids are old enough and then listen for the "mommy, why does daddy have to go through a different line?" questions. And then hear someone (not my wife) say, "because foreigners are bad". I know, that may be taking it to an extreme but so is this measure for "safety".

Sorry for the rant, just needed to vent a bit and wanted to add to the opinions here.

[kakuekiteisha]

Dear fellow Gaijins here in Japan,
I'm sending you (1) part of an opinion article which
will be published by Kapatiran Gaikokujin Soudan Center in its forthcoming issue of Sampaguita newletter (Nihongo only), and (2) a letter to the editor cum analysis. They are both about the new procedure enforced at Japanese airports and seaports which will affect foreigners, including permanent residents.

(1) Expensive and Defective Technology Will Not Make Japan More Secure
by Jayson Lamchek

Beginning November 20, 2007, under the newest counter-terrorist measures passed by the Japanese Diet in 2006, like bar-coded goods scanned at the cash counter, foreigners will be made to face a computer camera and required to put their two index fingers on a scanning device. They will be quickly mug-shot and fingerprinted upon entering or re-entering Japan in all of its 27 airports and 122 seaports. Foreigners’ biometric information (facial photographs and fingerprints) will then form the digital database which will supposedly help identify terrorists and other criminals in Japan. At the moment, no legal restrictions exist that will prevent the sharing of this database throughout the Japanese government and with other countries and even corporations. And the Japanese government intends to keep these information for at least 80 years, i.e., even after one leaves Japan.

A sufferable nuisance it may seem to many but the collection of this biometric information from uninformed foreigners is a massive invasion of their right to privacy ostensively to provide Japanese society greater security. Personally, I find it offensive that Japan thinks it needs to obtain my biometric information before it can feel secure. But perhaps, more importantly to Japanese, the promised security benefit is seriously in doubt as well.

In the Ijuren-sponsored forum appropriately titled “Towards further control over foreign nationals” held last Saturday, guest speaker Barry Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union revealed his country’s shameful experience with the gathering of biometric information of foreigners. At the moment only the United States is enforcing a similar program called US-VISIT (and Japan’s program is also the result of American pressure). The program, which has cost the US at least 15 billion dollars, has taken biometric
information from at least 76 million visitors until January 2004. How successful is the program? As of January 2004, only 1,800 people have been caught mostly for minor immigration law violations at the cost of 8.3 million dollars per person caught.

Government and critics alike concede that Japan isachieving its goal set under the Action Plan of Measures Against Trafficking in Persons December 2004 to reduce the number of visa overstayers by half in five years. Ordinary police work, no fancy technology, has done the trick. Why then spend more money building an expensive technology-driven surveillance infrastructure against foreigners?

The program has also mistakenly trapped ordinary people with no criminal records, including pilots and airline employees, foreign professors and students. Even famous singer Cat Stevens was prevented from
returning to the US because of inaccurate identification.

Steinhardt could only cringe at the thought of individuals mistaken as terrorists because of inaccurate identification. This has already happened
to an Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield who was held by the US government for two weeks mostly under maximum security conditions because FBI experts claimed that his fingerprints were found on a bag of detonators
left near the site of the Madrid bombing. It turned out later that those fingerprints matched more accurately those belonging to a suspect arrested by the Spanish police. Mayfield has never ever been in Spain. Mayfield was released and the Justice Department has since apologized to him.

Needless to say, the system is sheer discrimination on the basis of nationality. Why assume that foreigners are more prone than Japanese to commit crimes and terrorism?

Here at Kapatiran, we have constantly listened to stories of domestic violence and abuse committed by Japanese men against Filipina women. Foreign women are more prone to become victimized by domestic violence committed by their Japanese husbands and boyfriends. These are crimes too even under Japanese law, but who's fingerprinting those wife batterers?


(2) Letter and Analysis by Teruo Naka

Dear Editor,

From the middle of November 2007, most foreigners entering Japan will be obliged to provide their fingerprints and photographs to the Japanese
government.

As a Japanese national with a lot of foreign friends and as one who is married to a Brazilian, I strongly object to this new system and hope for the repeal of the amendment to the Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act which was passed in Parliament.

There are a number of serious issues that should be discussed regarding the amendment.

Two of these issues are:
1) The system puts foreigners’ privacy in danger of violation.
2) The system intensifies xenophobia which has worsened over the past several years under the government led by the Liberal Democratic party and the NEW KOMEITO.

I reckon that your readers are going to be made aware of this new system only through the information given by the Japanese government under the current administration.

In my readings of the parliamentary minutes and deliberations about the new system, I noticed that very important points have not been included in the
publicity campaign of the government.

With the help of my friends and family, I translated some of them. I will be very pleased if you could refer to the attached document in your future coverage of the new amendment.

Sincerely yours,
Teruo NAKA


1) “Prevention of terrorist attacks" cannot be achieved by this system because the system cannot stop terrorists whose fingerprints are not on the
blacklist.

Since an enormous amount of money to the tune of 7 billion yen or more is the initial appropriation approved for the new system, it is logical to think
that there are other purposes for which this budget allocation is going to be spent. Given that clearly, the system is ineffective in preventing the entry of
potential terrorists whose biometric information are not entered in the blacklist, spending this much money on the new system makes one doubt about the real intentions of the current administration.

2) Biometric information provided by foreigners are going to be stored and used for 70 or 80 years.

It is worthwhile to note that the Japanese government under the leadership of the Liberal Democratic Party and the NEW KOMEITO is going to enforce the new law with the intention of storing the data provided by
foreigners entering Japan for 70 or 80 years. This is consistent with the current administration’s prejudicial stance against foreigners, viewing those
visiting Japan as potential illegal workers or criminals.

It is clear that the reason why the biometric information from foreigners are going to be stored for 70 to 80 years is the belief of the government under the current leadership that foreigners coming into Japan are potential illegal workers and will be part of a “hotbed for crimes” or “a hotbed of the
deterioration in the country’s security”.

The assumption is obviously groundless as the official statistics show. Crimes committed by foreign nationals including those “overstaying persons” have not been increasing dramatically, contrary to the government’s propaganda. The majority of foreign residents in Japan including those with illegal status are living here peacefully as members of Japanese society.

However, the current administration has not shown adherence to overcoming elitism, racism and discrimination which have been the defining values of the Imperial era. Instead, it is carrying out policies based on xenophobia.

* In Japan, providing fingerprints to authorities is imposed only on a criminal suspect. Although at one point, foreign nationals were asked to give their fingerprints to government officials, the practice was abolished in 2000 after a strong protest movement.

3) Putting foreigners under surveillance of the Japanese government is the true purpose of the new system. If “prevention of terrorist entry” is its
purpose, then, it is not necessary to store the biometricinformation given by foreign nationals for 70 to 80 years after customs and immigration procedures have been satisfied upon entry.

It should be pointed out that the Japanese government requested that fingerprints information of the Japanese visiting the United States should be
discarded at the time of departure from U.S. soil when the US government introduced the same system called US-VISIT. This double-standard was mentioned by Satoshi TAKAYAMA of the Democratic Party at the Lower
House during the deliberations of the proposed amendment.

4) The results of the collation of fingerprints of foreigners entering Japan have errors. But in these cases there is no “guarantee of a due process of law” in Japan for those alleged to have terrorist
connections.

[Ewok85]

Naka-san, we need more people like you. Great work!

[pipokun]

It is also true that the ruling LDP and Komeitto are the parties trying to enact the controversial Human Right law, which even the Communist Party opposes.

Anways, kakuekiteisha, keep posting here.

[kakuekiteisha]

It is also true that the ruling LDP and Komeitto are the parties trying to enact the controversial Human Right law, which even the Communist Party opposes.
Anways, kakuekiteisha, keep posting here.

Thanks a lot pipokun and Ewok85! I will try to keep you updated about the latest developments on this issue. I heard that there will fora and symposia to be held in several cities in Japan. Let`s help disseminate the information among gaijins in Japan. Arigatou.

[budd]

"I am a US citizen and I am certainly not above criticizing the US for doing the same."

i completely agree with this viewpoint. thanks for posting!

i also (like others who have posted herein) don't think this will help with preventing any terrosrist acts -- those people will pay whoever they need to ensure that whatever they are trying to do gets done.
have noticed the color-coded foreign people (i.e. middle-eastern heritage man wearing a light blue coat and walking a little further around, noticing a young woman of middle-eastern heritage wearing a light blue sweater) being posted outside of stations like minami senju in the late hours of the night watching everybody.
how would foreigners be able to stand anywhere on the street for more then ten minutes in japan and NOT BE NOTICED? hmm
ah well...

[Goldiegirl]

They can have my picture and fingerprints. My 2 banks have the same info. My husband does the same thing when returning to the USA. I have nothing to hide. We have out picture taken a hundred times a day without our even knowing of it, like when we go to a mall, go to an ATM and so forth. At least when entering Japan, I know who's taking my picture and when they are taking it. At a mall, I have no idea what the store does with it's surveillance, if anything at all.....

[Taiko666]

I have nothing to hide

A standard argument... Would you be happy if the government searched your house every day? You've nothing to hide after all.

We have out picture taken a hundred times a day without our even knowing of it, like when we go to a mall, go to an ATM and so forth. At least when entering Japan, I know who's taking my picture and when they are taking it. At a mall, I have no idea what the store does with it's surveillance, if anything at all...

Well, at least you partly know that the J-Gov will be doing with your prints. They'll be comparing them with every print found at a crime scene in Japan. And they'll be sharing with them with 'other governments.' At least these are the most visible items... I'm sure your prints will be mis-used in any number of ways.

And the fact that the USA denies your husband's rights to dignity doesn't excuse Japan doing the same to you.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Fingerprints compelled? That is not such bad idea?

Two weeks ago my daughter and I went to Londodn. We had no problems at Schiphol, the Amsterdam Airport. But when we went back to Holland, we had to take our shoes off at the British Airport. I wore lace-up shoes, and I was taking them off while standing... not easy at my age.
Fingerprints at the air ports? No problem!

[pipokun]

I don't mind the tight airport security, but more non-EU citizen lanes in the Heathrow.

[Han Chan]

I don't mind the tight airport security, but more non-EU citizen lanes in the Heathrow.
When my japanese wife and go to London: I am done with my passport control in one or two minutes and then I have to wait for half an hour for my wife. I guess that they treat the non-EU people with other standarts. I know of several japanese who have been questioned and treated with suspision in Heathrow - as if economic emigrants came from Japan? The ingnorance and rudeness of immigrations officers know no limit!

[nanook]

The ingnorance and rudeness of immigrations officers know no limit!...which is probably true for most every country. You might need to have a somewhat special (strange?) mind set, if you would want to become an immigration officer.

[Glenski]

For those of you who don't care about the fingerprinting, how many are just tourists and how many actually live in Japan? Tourists are likely not going to stay long, but we residents have a serious beef, I feel.

1. Not all foreigners get equal treatment. So, the policy is automatically biased and discriminatory.

2. No terrorist act in Japan ever was caused by a foreigner, so if the government suspects terrorism from residents, it should be looking at its own citizens much more than foreigners. More discrimination.

3. Fingerprinting is inaccurate. People are already discussing ways to hinder the system when it begins on the 20th.

4. Fingerprints are not like 7-Eleven closed circuit videos. Fingerprints will be shared with other branches of the Japanese government and police, as well as with other governments and other police. What reason do they have to suspect foreigners who live and work peacefully here? None, therefore it's an invasion of privacy and human rights.

5. Interesting exceptions to the policy include teens under 16. So, I guess foreign teens from Iraq or Iran or some other countries are just not that violent, eh? Perhaps the government should read more.

6. Another interesting exception to the policy (from the US embassy's November report) is anyone under SOFA. That means military personnel (soldiers) and their families, plus civilian contractors and other personnel working on base. So, a person who has a stable job in Japan as a businessman or teacher or self-employed, perhaps for a decade or more, is more suspicious than the cook or McDonalds employee on base in Okinawa? Ludicrous loophole.

7. Our famous Justice Ministry official's story. If that is any inkling of the reasoning behind this new policy, it is no wonder that the government here is in such sad shape, and that equal rights in Japan are so ill-enforced.

8. With the fiasco in losing pension records, the government has a bad history of handling personal information. With other examples of employees leaking personal computerized records to the Internet, just how secure are you in thinking your prints and photos are going to be held only by immigration and the Justice Ministry (as if point #4 above wasn't bad enough)?

So, tourists, you have a different opinion because of your transitory nature. Please try to understand the opinions of those of us who actually live and work here.

[Goldiegirl]

Search my house, sure, I still have nothing to hide. Sorry I live a boring life.

I can understand how those of you who are permanent residents feel though. You are different from us visitors. I think there should be some exceptions. You live there and pay taxes, you have an interest in the security of Japan.

As for the argument that the only terrorist attacks in Japan have only been by other Japanese, so they shouldn't fingerprint foreigners, just doesn't work. At THIS point there haven't been attacks by foreigners, but seeing as Japan has a close relationship with the USA, for how long is Japan safe. The USA seemed safe until 9/11.

[Taiko666]

The USA seemed safe until 9/11.

Fingerprinting wouldn't have prevented that atrocity. And if other terrorists want to target Japan, fingerprinting isn't going to stop them either. In fact, implemented this completely circumventable 'anti-terrorist' measure could even be something of a red rag to a bull to them.

[Goldiegirl]

True fingerprinting is not fool-proof. It will catch some though, and I would rather catch one terrorist than not....but hey that's just my thought. I was also told those that complain the most usually have the most to hide? hmmmmmm?

[pipokun]

6. Another interesting exception to the policy (from the US embassy's November report) is anyone under SOFA. That means military personnel (soldiers) and their families, plus civilian contractors and other personnel working on base. So, a person who has a stable job in Japan as a businessman or teacher or self-employed, perhaps for a decade or more, is more suspicious than the cook or McDonalds employee on base in Okinawa? Ludicrous loophole.

Show me the source.
The US soldiers have the official visa like diplomats, but not civilian contractors.

And if you live in Japan for a decade or more, you are eligible to be naturalised here. And if you are not a famous activist, the government does not force you to renounce your home country passport. Or even if you are famous, nobody forces you to do so.

[Glenski]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reminder: New Biometrics Requirements for Foreigners Entering Japan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Government of Japan recently informed us that as of November 20, 2007, Immigration officials at the port of entry will digitally scan the fingerprints of and photograph all foreign nationals entering Japan, with the exemption of certain categories listed below. This requirement does not replace any existing visa or passport requirements. Foreign nationals that are exempt from this new requirement include special permanent residents (Tokubetsu Eijuusha), persons under 16 years of age, holders of diplomatic or official visas, and persons invited by the head of a national administrative organization. Please note that permanent residents will also be expected to submit to this new requirement.

The Immigration Bureau of the Ministry of Justice posted an explanatory video on the new procedures on June 14, 1007. The short video entitled “Landing Examination Procedures for Japan are Changing!” can be viewed here.

UPDATE: Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) personnel are exempt under SOFA Article 9 (2) from the new biometrics entry requirements.
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-newsletter20071101.html#bio

If you want to know about that Article 9, section 2:
http://www.indiana.edu/~easc/security_issues/japan/SOFA.pdf
2. Members of the United States armed forces shall be exempt from Japanese passport and visa laws and regulations. Members of the United States armed forces, the civilian component, and their dependents shall be exempt from Japanese laws and regulations on the registration and control of aliens, but shall not be considered as acquiring any right to permanent residence or domicile in the territories of Japan.

Article 1 defines terms in case you think they are unclear above:
ARTICLE I
In this Agreement the expression -
(a) "members of the United States armed forces" means the personnel on active duty belonging to the land, sea or air armed services of the United States of America when in the territory of Japan.
(b) "civilian component" means the civilian persons of United States nationality who are in the employ of, serving with, or accompanying the United States armed forces in Japan, but excludes persons who are ordinarily resident in Japan or who are mentioned in paragraph 1 of
Article XIV. For the purposes of this Agreement only, dual nationals, United States and Japanese, who are brought to Japan by the United States shall be considered as United States nationals.
(c) "dependents" means
1. Spouse, and children under 21;
Parents, and children over 21, if dependent for over half their support upon a member of the United States armed forces or civilian component.

And a last snippet from Article 9, section 3, then section 4:
For purposes of their identification while in Japan, members of the United States armed forces shall be in possession of the foregoing personal identity card which must be presented on request to the appropriate Japanese authorities.
4. Members of the civilian component, their dependents, and the dependents of members of the United States armed forces shall be in possession of appropriate documentation issued by the United States authorities so that their status may be verified by Japanese authorities upon their entry into or departure from Japan, or while in Japan.

As for being eligible for naturalization, then yes, that's true, but why are you suggesting I give up my nationality? Too extreme a measure, and as a PR holder, I am entitled to practically everything a Japanese resident is, except the right to vote or hold office (and I can live with that).

[pipokun]

Thank you for the info. That, the civilian component exemption, is extremely unfair, though I highly doubt McDonalds employees come all the way from the states.

As for being eligible for naturalization, then yes, that's true, but why are you suggesting I give up my nationality? Too extreme a measure, and as a PR holder, I am entitled to practically everything a Japanese resident is, except the right to vote or hold office (and I can live with that).

You take the the fingerprinting stuff as an extreme human right infringement, right? Why don't you get naturalised now?

[ArmandV]

In the immigration procedures video, a fellow G-fan spotted actress Shelley Sweeney who works as an actress in Japan and appeared in 5 Godzilla movies. She was a guest at our annual G-FEST convention last July in Chicago.


http://home.earthlink.net/~jpolz/images/JPNimmigrationvideo.jpg

[nanook]

Why don't you get naturalised now?One might be reluctant ...
If you would greet every friend who comes to your home for a drink with a big insult, you might end up with very few friends, if any, after a while.

[pipokun]

One might be reluctant ...
If you would greet every friend who comes to your home for a drink with a big insult, you might end up with very few friends, if any, after a while.
It is also the government who welcomes Asians with the visa waiver program for Korean people and the easier visa application access for Chinese people.

[Glenski]

Why don't you get naturalised now?
That is such a ridiculous question that I can't even think of a polite way to answer.

[mr.sumo.snr]

That is such a ridiculous question that I can't even think of a polite way to answer.

I totally concur. Talk about taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's not like we're trying to take a bath in Hokkaido.


--

[Fel1city]

Oh for heavens sake, if its for everyones security then what is the problem? Entering the USA is the same: polite request for photo, polite instructions as to how to do the fingerprint bit: if you have nothing to hide then ......There are a zilion ways for "Big Brother" to have info on us all: it will happen everywhere soon so....build a bridge

[pipokun]

I totally concur. Talk about taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's not like we're trying to take a bath in Hokkaido.
--
Did the Japanese embassy request to submit your crime report for your visa application?

[Dutch Baka]

So, the question is now: What can we do about it? or who can do something about it to stop it.

What's JNTO their opinion about it? and how long is it going to take? It looks like it is at least going to take 5 minutes a person, instead of the 30 second/2 minutes max we are having now.

[Glenski]

Oh for heavens sake, if its for everyones security then what is the problem? Entering the USA is the same: polite request for photo, polite instructions as to how to do the fingerprint bit: if you have nothing to hide then ......There are a zilion ways for "Big Brother" to have info on us all: it will happen everywhere soon so....build a bridge
But it is NOT for everyone's security. Haven't you been reading any of this thread?

No foreigner has ever been found to have committed terrorist acts in Japan. Only Japanese have done that!

Not all foreigners are being subjected to this policy. Koreans and Chinese (two groups who are on the government's [s]hit list for various crimes and indignities) are exempt, as are all members of SOFA (which includes civilian families and most contractors).

Does the USA share its fingerprints with other governments, other branches of its own government, with its police force and that of other countries? I don't think so. Japan will and for no good reason!

It matters not if we have "nothing to hide". Fingerprints will be shared, and that means we are all put in a pool for any suspected criminal investigations, and since prints are not exact, there is the likelihood that someone could falsely be identified as a criminal. Plus, there is the simple indignity of being forced to stand in a line different from your husband or wife and kids while you go through immigration, even though you currently don't have to do that. Sixteen days and ticking until the change, though. Fel1city, do you even live here? Your profile says you have never even been to Japan. For that reason, I wonder how you feel you can even conceive you have something constructive or relevant to say on this matter?

Dutch Baka wrote:
So, the question is now: What can we do about it? or who can do something about it to stop it. Well, aside from putting superglue on your fingertips to hide the prints, as some people are proposing, how about reading what is on Debito Arudou's blog, to see the petition and letter of complaint that have been drafted? At present, those are about the only rational approach to all this, aside from staying at home and never having to enter/reenter the country.

[Ewok85]

Oh for heavens sake, if its for everyones security then what is the problem? Entering the USA is the same: polite request for photo, polite instructions as to how to do the fingerprint bit: if you have nothing to hide then ......There are a zilion ways for "Big Brother" to have info on us all: it will happen everywhere soon so....build a bridge

Its not that simple - its not everyone. Its only foreigners. Its not that we have nothing to hide, its that it is assumed we DO have something to hide, and they want to know what it is.

[pipokun]

Does the USA share its fingerprints with other governments, other branches of its own government, with its police force and that of other countries? I don't think so. Japan will and for no good reason!

Just google "UN Security Council Resolution 1269". Japan is just following it.

And it was with the No Fly List of your country that a South Korean plane to San Francisco had to make an emergency landing at Narita. FBI agents took the suspects (at that time) to your country with the interenational cooperation between South Korea, Japan and the US.

Two held in US over al-Qaeda camp
Umer Hayat has been accused of lying about his son's activities
A Pakistani-American and his son have been arrested in the US after the son admitted attending an al-Qaeda training camp in Pakistan, officials say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4076670.stm
*this BBC coverage does not include the arrest at Narita.

[mr.sumo.snr]

Another interesting Daily Yomiuri "Letter to the Editor" (Sunday 4th November):

************************************************** ********
"An open letter to the justice minister.

Excellency, I am a permanent resident of this country. In 1951, I landed in Yokohama with my entry into Japan approved under the clearance granted by the Supreme Commander, Allied Powers. I am one of the thousands who left their countries to open schools, hospitals, orphanages and churches, through which organizations we have provided health care and teaching, not forcing our values on the people we love so much.

As for myself alone, I met over 25,000 boys and girls in the academic field. For 56 years I have devotedly worked among your people with great enthusiasm and fervor. At 80, I still provide rice and other foodstuffs to help serve 2,500 meals a week to the thousands of homeless in four parks in Tokyo—people whose existence your government tries to ignore.

A few questions for you Mr. Minister: Who spread sarin gas in the subways of the capital? Foreigners? No. Not even a "friend of a friend who was a member of Al-Qaida." (Those were your words reported in newspapers to justify fingerprinting, which statement you tried to change later to avoid inflating your gaffe.)

Were the members of the Japanese Red Army that committed terrorist acts in other countries foreigners? They were Japanese, but foreigners outside Japan.

Can you justify your decision by obliging long time taxpayer-residents, who obey the laws and in spite of their gray/white hair work for the benefit of your people?
Is it feasible to acquire permanent residency holding a fake passport?

This new system is discriminatory. It will be very humiliating for me to be treated differently from my wife, sons-in-law and grandsons.

Unfortunately, my two non-Japanese daughters, born and raised in this country, will stand in the potential-terrorist lines."

************************************************** ********




--

[ArmandV]

While I understand peoples' feelings over these new procedures, I think it is a bit of an overreaction. My only concern is waiting longer in line at immigration for the people ahead of me to be processed through.

By the way, I discussed these procedures with the actress in the video yesterday. Even though she's a permanent resident of Japan, she still has to be fingerprinted and photographed. She says there's another category, special permanent resident, who do not have to be subjected to fingerprinting and photographing. She was a little annoyed by that, understandably.

[bakaKanadajin]

If you don't spend the time at immigration you'll spend it deplaning, standing in front of the luggage carousel or hunting for a cart. Either way airports in general are a *****. Actually, if a pleasant female immigration officer guided me through the process I'd look at it as just one more opportunity to co-operate and practice my Japanese.

But all sarcasm aside, the real issue here is discrimination against, who? Westerners apparently, as someone stated the new regulations are not applied to South Koreans and Chinese nationals in the same way. So why would Japan want to keep track of Westerners? Well maybe Japan doesn't want to, maybe the Western nations do. I think 'global security' is just a euphemism for the process by which powerful nations keep track of where their citizens are. And I think there is no other reason than wanting greater control and power. It has nothing to do with security, unless by security you mean the money lenders better organizing their chess board. I hope everyone here realizes that for the true players in global 'politics' this is nothing more than an add-on patch for their real life version of 'The Sims'.

[ArmandV]

If you don't spend the time at immigration you'll spend it deplaning, standing in front of the luggage carousel or hunting for a cart. Either way airports in general are a *****. Actually, if a pleasant female immigration officer guided me through the process I'd look at it as just one more opportunity to co-operate and practice my Japanese.

This year, the whole process from getting in line at immigration to walking into the arrival lobby was no more than 30 min. total at Narita. They seem to be better organized than other airports I've been to.

[bakaKanadajin]

I'd agree, getting into Japan was easy..actually the most hassle I ever received was trying to get back into my own country. Some skinny four-eyed joke of an immigration officer picked me out of a crowd of people and decided to give me a hard time. Then she dragged me into the inspection area and they tossed my luggage.

Never had a problem in Japan though, either entering the country or flying domestically. (Aside from having to remove my boots and belt for the metal detector).

[Glenski]

While I understand peoples' feelings over these new procedures, I think it is a bit of an overreaction. My only concern is waiting longer in line at immigration for the people ahead of me to be processed through.Of course you would say that. You are a tourist. Apparently, you are not thinking of the bigger picture (residents) or of the fact that your prints will be kept for 70-80 years and spread to other governments and police departments.

By the way, I discussed these procedures with the actress in the video yesterday. Even though she's a permanent resident of Japan, she still has to be fingerprinted and photographed. She says there's another category, special permanent resident, who do not have to be subjected to fingerprinting and photographing. She was a little annoyed by that, understandably.Are you just finding this out about special permanent residents, after all the information posted here? I have probably mentioned it at least twice.

Armand also wrote:
This year, the whole process from getting in line at immigration to walking into the arrival lobby was no more than 30 min. total at Narita. They seem to be better organized than other airports I've been to. Wait until Nov. 20. And, the waiting time alone is not the point here. Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?

bakakanadajin wrote:
But all sarcasm aside, the real issue here is discrimination against, who? Westerners apparently,No, it's against all non-Korean non-Chinese non-Japanese foreigners. Pretty silly to consider Africans, Arabs, Europeans, Russians, Aussies, and every other group as a "westerner".

[Taiko666]

Why don't you get naturalised now?

If any of the non-Japanese posters here naturalised, would you consider them Japanese, or merely gaijins with Japanese passports?

[pipokun]

...
No, it's against all non-Korean non-Chinese non-Japanese foreigners. Pretty silly to consider Africans, Arabs, Europeans, Russians, Aussies, and every other group as a "westerner".

It is not ture. Korean, Chinese, and Taiwanese people except the infamous special permanent resident status are the same as you. About 465,000 in total here.

If any of the non-Japanese posters here naturalised, would you consider them Japanese, or merely gaijins with Japanese passports?

They are Japanese who have to submit our police report to the US or EU nations when we apply visa such as non-immigrant, student or else.
If the person in the post of mr.sumo.snr had more privilages, it would cause another discrimination.

[Pachipro]

Does the USA share its fingerprints with other governments, other branches of its own government, with its police force and that of other countries? I don't think so. Japan will and for no good reason!


Umm, I think you better do a little more research as the the US government does share with everyone and expects the same in return. Do you seriously believe that Japan is implementing this on it's own? HA!

The reason why Japan is implementing the fingerprint procedure is because the US "forced" their hand to do it in order to keep track of its people and that Japan is just a puppet of the US and dutifully does what it is "requested" of by the US.

"Terrorism" is just the ruse behind it. Say the word "terrorism" and everyone will shake in their boots and be all for it in the name of "safety". What a crock. If that were the case the US boarders would be sealed. Besides, the US does it to Japanese so why not Japan?

In this "New World Order" that is coming into it's own, your fingerprints will be on file, one way or another, for the all the worlds governments to have access to. Next it will be your DNA and some kind of tracking system either with a chip under the skin or some other way like in all new US passports. Doubt it? Do a little research. In the not too distant future you will not even be able to go to the store without "them" knowing where you went, what time, what duration, and what you bought.

Debito can b*itch and moan all he wants and issue any number of petitions, but it will not stop the inevetable. Want to avoid it? Go find an island somewhere and live there forever and ride it out or fight it in numbers and i mean NUMBERS!

Besides doesn't the Japanese government already have your fingerprint on file when you received your "gaijin card"? Has it changed? I know I had to provide a thumb print back when I had mine so they already have mine. The military also has mine from when I was in.

Another unfortunate thing is that most people say, "If you have done nothing wrong then you should have nothing to hide", and "for safety and to thwart terrorism, I am all for it." That's what they are counting on. The thing they fail to realize is that, little by little, so-called free peoples' freedoms are being taken away from them in the name of safety and "anti-terrorism" and they are freely giving them up. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "Those that are willing to sacrifice their freedoms for safety deserve neither safety nor freedom."
The sad part about the whole thing is that by the time enough people wake up and realize just what is happening to their so-called "freedoms" and "rights" it will be too late. Remember, I said "enough people", not just a handful. Until then we'll just have to suck it up or accept the consequences.

[ArmandV]

Of course you would say that. You are a tourist. Apparently, you are not thinking of the bigger picture (residents) or of the fact that your prints will be kept for 70-80 years and spread to other governments and police departments.
Are you just finding this out about special permanent residents, after all the information posted here? I have probably mentioned it at least twice.
Armand also wrote:
Wait until Nov. 20. And, the waiting time alone is not the point here. Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?
bakakanadajin wrote:
No, it's against all non-Korean non-Chinese non-Japanese foreigners. Pretty silly to consider Africans, Arabs, Europeans, Russians, Aussies, and every other group as a "westerner".
Jeez, did you get out of the wrong side of the bed? As I mentioned, I do understand some's concerns. Some of you are acting as if this is the end of the world. As for the special permanent resident thing, I was only confirming what you posted. Maybe I wasn't clear. Chill, bro! :)


The sad part about the whole thing is that by the time enough people wake up and realize just what is happening to their so-called "freedoms" and "rights" it will be too late. Remember, I said "enough people", not just a handful. Until then we'll just have to suck it up or accept the consequences.
Just think, all of this data may go into the hands of President Hillary and Prince William! What a pleasant thought! ;-)

[Glenski]

It is not ture. Korean, Chinese, and Taiwanese people except the infamous special permanent resident status are the same as you. About 465,000 in total here.Perhaps I didn't write clearly enough earlier. Sorry. I was referring to the special permanent residents, as described above.

They are Japanese who have to submit our police report to the US or EU nations when we apply visa such as non-immigrant, student or else.
If the person in the post of mr.sumo.snr had more privilages, it would cause another discrimination.But, those visas are one thing, and visas like spouse visa or status like permanent resident status are completely different situations. Again, we are comparing short-term visits (true visitors, although immigration labels all of us as that) to long-term residents (except the exempt special permanent residents).

Armand wrote: Some of you are acting as if this is the end of the world.Come and live here for a while, be a resident, not a tourist. Then, see how you feel. It's pretty serious for those of us who have chosen to make this our homes.

pachipro wrote: Umm, I think you better do a little more research as the the US government does share with everyone and expects the same in return. Do you seriously believe that Japan is implementing this on it's own? HA!My question was a serious one -- what does the USA do with its biometric data? I said I didn't know. If you can point me to info that shows how and where the USA shares its data, I would be grateful. And, no, I wasn't so naive as to think Japan did this all on its own, but it is doing it in a different way and partly for different reasons that offend us.

the US does it to Japanese so why not Japan?One of Japan's reasons is that terrorism is likely to hit its shores, but it is a proven fact that terrorism from the outside has not happened. Only from within. And, Japan's policy is inconsistent. Special permanent residents and people on SOFA status (some, anyway) are just as likely as the rest of us foreigners to be potential terrorists and criminals, but they are exempt. Unfair!

Debito can b*itch and moan all he wants and issue any number of petitions, but it will not stop the inevetable. Want to avoid it? Go find an island somewhere and live there forever and ride it out or fight it in numbers and i mean NUMBERS!Or you can do the more sensible thing and fight the unjust policy. You have already conceded defeat. The fingerprinting ordeal shows that change can happen. (Sadly,it came back.)

[ArmandV]

Armand wrote: Come and live here for a while, be a resident, not a tourist. Then, see how you feel. It's pretty serious for those of us who have chosen to make this our homes.

Ooh, they are going to use your picture and fingerprints to come get you in the middle of the night and toss you in a gulag! The government most likely has enough data on you already.

One of Japan's reasons is that terrorism is likely to hit its shores, but it is a proven fact that terrorism from the outside has not happened. Only from within.

So your solution is for Japan to sit and wait for an attack from non-homegrown terrorists? Since Japan has participated in the Gulf, sooner or later some wacko terrorist group from that region may decide to hit Japan in some way. It is probably prudent for them to bolster security to be on the safe side.

[mr.sumo.snr]

Since Japan has participated in the Gulf, sooner or later some wacko terrorist group from that region may decide to hit Japan in some way. It is probably prudent for them to bolster security to be on the safe side.

So perhaps they should start photographing and fingerprinting every Japanese person too - this was what I understood from Glenski's posts.

I'm quite happy about these new procedures now that I know I'll get my 'own' queue. Would I be correct in assuming that Green Card holders get fingerprinted but nevertheless line up with US Citizens at immigration control?

--

[Ewok85]

Ooh, they are going to use your picture and fingerprints to come get you in the middle of the night and toss you in a gulag! The government most likely has enough data on you already.

You joke about it, but it happens from time to time in the US.

[pipokun]

Your application will only be accepted at the Visa Application Centre if you can:
...
have your biometrics data recorded.
http://www.uknow.or.jp/be_e/visa/visas/index.htm

Visa Fees
http://www.vfs-uk-jp.com/visafees.aspx
http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/visa/visa_fee.pdf

Though the language level which British or French government requests is a bit challenging hardle for Japanese, but I do not think Japan would do the same for Britons or French expats here.

Just google the infamous terrorist, Kim Hyon Hui. If she had not been arrested, Korean people would have said, "It is Japan, AGAIN".
A Chinese woman arrested in her country for the fake Japanese passport to leave the coutry for Canada. She evern hired a Japanese teacher for 6 months. But it is quite rare that a Japanese woman would be loud when something happens.

http://www.recordchina.co.jp/group/g12490.html
2007年10月30日、偽造された日本のICパスポートで密出国しようとした女性が北京の出入国管理警察に 取り押さえられた。女性が日本語でわめき続けたところ 、その発音がおかしいことから密出国が発見された。

[ArmandV]

You joke about it, but it happens from time to time in the US.

Name one.

As I said, the government probably has enough data on their citizens to take action. Having these new procedures may or may not be necessarily be "fair," but it would be pointless to direct it against their own citizens as Japan does not seem to be an enclave of Islamic radicals, unlike Britain.

[Pachipro]

My question was a serious one -- what does the USA do with its biometric data? I said I didn't know. If you can point me to info that shows how and where the USA shares its data, I would be grateful. And, no, I wasn't so naive as to think Japan did this all on its own, but it is doing it in a different way and partly for different reasons that offend us.


It may offend you as it does all other visitors and alien residents of the US from Japan, The EU and Australia, etc. Read on and READ ALL the links.

From "The Guardian":

DNA database agreed for police across EU (http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2101687,00.html)

No more secrets (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2022064,00.html)

Biometrics - great hope for world security or triumph for Big Brother? (http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=Biometric+Data+Sharing&year=2004&sitesearch-radio=guardian)(Here they share data with the US and vice versa)

Others:

Germany Plans Passports with Biometric Data in November (http://www.mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=234451)
The European Union has asked for an extension of the Oct. 26 deadline imposed by Washington (my bold text) to implement new U.S. rules on issuing biometric passports. Washington is demanding that all passports issued by Australia, Japan and EU member states after this deadline have biometric security elements for holders to enjoy visa-free U.S. visits of up to 90 days.


And From OUR OWN GOVERNMENT!: (http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/perfrpt/2005/html/56332.htm)


JUSTIFICATION (VALIDATION): Sharing of all relevant data with and among agencies involved in the visa process or other homeland security efforts is a priority for the Department and a U.S. Government goal. Signed Memoranda of Understanding are matters of record and show progress toward optimal interagency cooperation on homeland security issues.



Target: Expand data sharing with other agencies and internationally.


Read again please. It says "AND INTERNATIONALLY"!

And if you think this does not mean internationally you are in denial.

And finally A Statement by Maura Harty, Assistant Secretary of State for Counselr Affairs, Senate Judiciary Committee, June 15, 2004 (http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/subdocs/061504_harty.pdf)

Some exerpts:


Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the Administration’s request for a two-year extension of the October 26, 2004 deadline for inclusion of biometric features in passports issued by countries which participate in the Visa Waiver Program (VWP).....

......The entire international community will benefit from the security advantages of biometric passports as part of our collective effort to combat terrorism......the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act (EBSA)established October 26, 2004, as a deadline by which VWP countries must begin issuing their nationals only passports that incorporate biometric identifiers that comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards....

.....Now that we have the technical standards, all VWP countries can begin full development and deployment of their respective biometric programs. However, given the time it has taken to resolve these complex operational issues, few, if any, will be able to meet the October 26, 2004 deadline. For example, none of the larger countries – Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy or Spain -- will begin issuing passports with standardized biometrics by that deadline. The United Kingdom expects to begin in late 2005, Japan to complete transition to full production by April 2006. Others may not come on-line until well into 2006. This delay is not due to a lack of good will but due to significant scientific and technical challenges that has taken us to the cutting edge of changing technologies....

....These teams are also addressing law enforcement and data sharing cooperation with the U.S. government. All visits will be completed by July 15....

....Further, to continue to tighten our security posture, DHS announced in April that beginning September 30, 2004, it will enroll all VWP travelers in US-VISIT– the program that will track the entry and exit of foreign visitors by using electronically scanned fingerprints and photographs.


Therefore, that is why Japan is implementing it! It is not only happening in Japan IT IS WORLDWIDE! (at least in some parts of Oceiana [Asia, Austraila and New Zealand], all of the EU, and all of North and most of South America.)

And finally: Digital Civil Rights in Europe (http://www.edri.org/campaigns/biometrics) (An Open Letter to the European Parliament on Biometric Registration of all EU Citizens and Residents)

Do you need more links Glenski or is this sufficient? I have plenty.

My own passport, issued in March of this year DID NOT have the security chip as they are way behind schedule. Thank goodness for ineffectual government.


Or you can do the more sensible thing and fight the unjust policy. You have already conceded defeat. The fingerprinting ordeal shows that change can happen. (Sadly,it came back.)

One, or a handful of persons CANNOT do this on their own because the numbers are not there and they will be defeated or taken away or their homes and goods confiscated for some trumped up charges. (It has happened)

However, get enough people involved and you may at least delay the inevitable. More than enough and it can be defeated. Sadly, too many people today look at you (me) like you're (I'm) crazy and are too involved with what's on TV or paying their mortage and credit cards to even care. Therefore, they are unreachable, will never listen or believe it and I might as well be banging my head against a wall. One look at some of the responses in this thread will tell you that. "If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. They just don't get what is happening until it will be too late.

Most are so ignorant they say, "well if that's the truth then why isn't it on the major news?" Little do they know that the major news media are not as free as we'd like to believe they are and that most are owned by Wall Street and the international elite who are responsible for this program to keep track of every single individual.

Need more info? Just ask. It's all out there - for now.

[Goldiegirl]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.

[ArmandV]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.

Since everything is being shared, as Pachipro pointed out, staying at home will do no good. 1984 just came 23 years late.

[Goldiegirl]

Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

[Pachipro]

....since everything is being shared, staying at home will do no good. 1984 just came 23 years late.
And why did it come 23 years late? Because enough people took notice and action to delay it. It's still not in full swing yet.

Sadly, as I mentioned above, and some people seem to not care (the epitome of the typical person today, Japanese or otherwise) most people couldn't give a damn that their most basic human rights are slowly being eroded and that's what "they" are counting on. Unfortunately, these people are still in the majority.

As long as they have access to easy credit and can have "theirs" now and "no payments until 2010" they could care less and look at it as something that is not important or irrelevant. Little do they see that the noose is slowly tightening until one day they will say, "What happened? Why didn't I know this was coming?"

The more people that take action with letters, phone calls to their representatives, etc., the slower it will take for their plan to take effect. I'm doing it here and I hope others in other countries are doing it as well. It can be stopped if enough people take action. Re: The US Revolution and the Revolution in France that led to Bastille Day.

It can be done, after all we (the general population) outnumber "them", but they know how to seduce the populace with TV, irrelevant news about Britany Spears, Hollywood BS, sports, credit crunch, internet porn, the housing crisis, oil prices, gas prices, inevitable stock market crash, etc. They know how to keep 99% of the people in so much debt that they can't think about anything else.

Keep the population in debt and their attention diverted and if that doesn't work convince them they need a drug for their shakey leg syndrome or because they go to the bathroom a few times a day, or they have pre-diabetes or pre-hypertension, etc. and they won't see what is really going on as they will be too drugged to care. Sad. Very sad.

[ArmandV]

Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

That's exactly my point. All the things you mentioned are easily accessible to the government (and shared with other governments).

[ArmandV]

And why did it come 23 years late? Because enough people took notice and action to delay it. It's still not in full swing yet.
Sadly, as I mentioned above, and some people seem to not care (the epitome of the typical person today, Japanese or otherwise) most people couldn't give a damn that their most basic human rights are slowly being eroded and that's what "they" are counting on. Unfortunately, these people are still in the majority.

I hear you, I've railed against "Big Government" for over 30 years. The average Joe Sixpack is only concerned with what goes on his own fishbowl and is too busy or unconcerned to "storm the castle."

Just recently, I found that some Planning Commission wacko in Los Angeles city government wants to force people into using mass transit (What mass transit in L.A.?) by limiting the number of cars people who live in apartments can have. The media hasn't even covered this, I found out from the local chamber of commerce newsletter!

If Hillary becomes president (with Bill as Prince Willie), all of our data will likely end up at the Rose Law Firm or worse!

"Government big enough to give you anything you want is big enough to take away everything you have!"- Gerald R. Ford

[Pachipro]

It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!
I have to agree here that you DO have a point, but the government always had access to that information just from the records of the bills you pay or from your drivers license. But never have they made such a great effort to keep track of every single individual and what they buy or where they go or who who they are dating, or what their blood type is, etc.

Do you not think it unusual that Fox News bought MySpace when it was hardly even making a profit? Why? So many people are posting so much personal information about themselves that it is a goldmine for "those" that want to keep track of you. And who owns Fox News? And what type or organization is Fox News? And who do they support in government and who supports them? Research it!

Why did Google buy YouTube for $1.65BILLION when it was in the red and NEVER made a profit? Same reasons. Why does Google supply info to the Chinese government on people who are dissidents and Google things detrimental to the Chinese government and they do the same for the US government. Everything you "Google" is kept on file for "future reference" Why was a chinese citizen sentenced to 10 years in jail for info provided by Yahoo? You or I could be taken away any day now for something we innocently searched on the internet or wrote on a website.

Therefore, if I suddenly disappear, I am dead or have been taken away and sent to Guantanimo for my subversive posts and "anti-Americanism" even though I do love my country. I just don't like what is happening to it's government.

[Pachipro]

I hear you, I've railed against "Big Government" for over 30 years. The average Joe Sixpack is only concerned with what goes on his own fishbowl and is too busy or unconcerned to "storm the castle."

Just recently, I found that some Planning Commission wacko in Los Angeles city government wants to force people into using mass transit (What mass transit in L.A.?) by limiting the number of cars people who live in apartments can have. The media hasn't even covered this, I found out from the local chamber of commerce newsletter!

If Hillary becomes president (with Bill as Prince Willie), all of our data will likely end up at the Rose Law Firm or worse!

"Government big enough to give you anything you want is big enough to take away everything you have!"- Gerald R. Ford

How right you are ArmandV and you will NEVER hear of it in the local media lest too many people know what is really going on. At least someONE out there is taking notice and taking some action. Phone calls and e-mails mean alot!

As long as something is required I will comply because to do otherwise would be foolish and a death sentence, but I willl still fight it with every ounce of my soul and try to convince those with even a minute amount of intelligence to do the same.

[Glenski]

Ooh, they are going to use your picture and fingerprints to come get you in the middle of the night and toss you in a gulag! If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?

The government most likely has enough data on you already. Good! Tell them that, and point out that they don't need this policy, then.

So your solution is for Japan to sit and wait for an attack from non-homegrown terrorists? Since Japan has participated in the Gulf, sooner or later some wacko terrorist group from that region may decide to hit Japan in some way. It is probably prudent for them to bolster security to be on the safe side.
You have not even been reading what I wrote. Some foreigners are exempt, including some that are members of nationalities the Japanese fear.

Moreover, Japan is going to let them go, yet persecute those of us who have lived here for decades as permanent residents (do you even know the term?). Unfair. And, history shows that there is no precedent to attack Japan. Saying terrorism is possible everywhere is a cop-out.

mr. sumo snr. wrote: Would I be correct in assuming that Green Card holders get fingerprinted but nevertheless line up with US Citizens at immigration control? If by "green card" you mean PR status, then yes, you will have to go through the separate lines and get printed and photographed with the other "potential terrorists".

ArmandV wrote: Having these new procedures may or may not be necessarily be "fair," but it would be pointless to direct it against their own citizens as Japan does not seem to be an enclave of Islamic radicals, unlike Britain. Incredible tunnel vision!
1) who says Islamic radicals are the only terrorists?
2) [and more importantly] "their own citizens" are the only people who have committed terrorist acts in Japan! You just don't get it, do you?

Will have to read the other posts later. Busy day today.

[ArmandV]

If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?


If you can't keep a civil finger on your keyboard, don't bother to read, ok?

2) [and more importantly] "their own citizens" are the only people who have committed terrorist acts in Japan!


So far, yes. That was then, this is now.

[Glenski]

Ah, "so far". That's the only "logical" weapon at your (and Japan's) disposal. So, in that case, why is it that they don't print and photograph all foreigners?

I'm very civil. Have I used profanity here? You are the one who used sarcasm instead of data and reasoning. I only replied to it.

[Glenski]

Re: DNA database agreed for police across EU

That article says people applying for visas and criminal suspects will be monitored.

In Japan, this is not the case. People who already have visas or PR will be monitored, as will people who are not under suspicion of specific crimes. The fact that the EU is doing this is not justification. The ministers who were interviewed on that article show that clearly it is not overwhelmingly accepted.

[pipokun]

Unfortunately, you are living in a leberal country with no backlash like the patriot law in your home country even after the unprecedented terror by the religious cult.
Actually there is a sutable law, Antisubversive Activities Law, but the govenment did not bring it up.
And you are living in the country where Beheiren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheiren), the anti-US activist group supported by the former USSR, could also be loud. It was an irony that the court reconfirmed the right of non-Japanese residents to be politically loud with the anti-Veitnam movement.
My only concern is that the system is not the one by a Japanese company or the govenment, but Accenture runs it. Cherry-cherry jr will explain the conspiracy years later.

[ArmandV]

Ah, "so far". That's the only "logical" weapon at your (and Japan's) disposal. So, in that case, why is it that they don't print and photograph all foreigners?
I'm very civil. Have I used profanity here? You are the one who used sarcasm instead of data and reasoning. I only replied to it.

You're the one there, why don't you ask them why aren't they fingerprinting all foreigners? Instead of playing message board games, why not get with other gaijins and organize protests?

I may be sarcastic (and satirical), but you uttered the following snarky comments:

1. "If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?" (See my last response to Pachipro.)

2. "Incredible tunnel vision!"

3. "You just don't get it, do you?"

4. "Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?"

[bakaKanadajin]

Glenski you aren't incorrect in any of what you say. But the answer to why this seemingly illogical and discriminatory policy exists is right in front of you. It has been elaborated upon quite thoroughly by Pachipro and he's not alone in his sentiments. It's not Japan that's doing this to foreigeners, it's foreign governments that are making other countries within their realm of interest and control do this in order for these countries to better track their own citizens. That's why I made the assumption earlier that its Westerners that are being targeted. By and large African nations and other developing countries aren't going to have the resources, the clout or the need to do this.

Once you accept this it all makes sense.

[Glenski]

You're the one there, why don't you ask them why aren't they fingerprinting all foreigners? Instead of playing message board games, why not get with other gaijins and organize protests?
I may be sarcastic (and satirical), but you uttered the following snarky comments:
1. "If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?" (See my last response to Pachipro.)
2. "Incredible tunnel vision!"
3. "You just don't get it, do you?"
4. "Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?"
Those snarky comments were followed by statements that explained what they meant and were meant to educate, not satirize like you did. Gulag indeed!

Your last remark to pachipro talked of California and Hillary Clinton. Since none of that is related to the situation in Japan, I fail to see why you mention it here.

bakakanadajin wrote:
it's foreign governments that are making other countries within their realm of interest and control do this in order for these countries to better track their own citizens. So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".

From pipokun's link to the Beheiren:
"Beheiren ("Betonamu ni Heiwa o Shimin Rengo" — Citizen's League for Peace in Vietnam) was a Japanese activist group that existed from 1965 to 1974. As a coalition of a few hundred anti-war groups it protested Japanese assistance to the United States during the Vietnam War."

"Members included Makoto Oda (Representative), Yuichi Yoshikawa (Secretary-General), Michitoshi Takabatake, Amon Miyamoto, Ichiyo Muto, Shinobu Yoshioka, Takeshi Kaiko, Yoshiyuki Tsurumi and Shunsuke Tsurumi."

Ok, aside from the fact that this is from Wikipedia, if we take it as true, I see 2 glaring facts worth mentioning.

1) This was over 30 years ago. How many members of that group are even alive, let alone still active?
2) Members included only Japanese citizens, once again adding fuel to the fire that it is Japanese citizens who should be monitored, not just suspicious foreigners (a group that I do not belong to, because I have no criminal record and do not belong to any subversive group).

As for me organizing and asking the pertinent questions, what makes you think I haven't? Coming here and trying to explain things is just one small step, but I can see it is a major hurdle for getting through to some people. We agree to disagree. I guess there can be no more said (but I will be fair about the whole thing and continue to look up those links earlier posted and then add any remarks I feel are relevant).

[Glenski]

Re: link "No more secrets"
Essentially, this is a good article that makes excellent points against the notion that Tony Blair feels the national identity database is not a Big Brother prototype. It is. And, there are many flaws in such a network.

Moreover, even the Japanese people fought against having national identity cards (and won) recently. The fact that the Japanese government screwed up royally in identifying who was on the pension plan (and then hid such information and the coverup for decades) is another major chink in the armor to show that you can't trust the government(s) to keep track of its own people, so how are they going to be trusted to maintain security on foreigners?

[Homerduff]

I'm not sure if these new procedures for foreigners entering Japan will do any good. I doubt there's a significant crime rate in Japan committed by foreigners. In fact, it will only make foreigners look more dangerous to Japanese people.

[bakaKanadajin]

So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".

I would not have access to documentation like that any more than I'd have access to reports on whether or not the US was truly asleep at the wheel or in fact driving the bus on 9/11. But if you base your opinion solely on official reports and whats available on CNN you'll never get the whole story. In fact, this is precisely the kind of thinking anyone who wishes to pull wool over someone else's eyes counts on from outside observers.

That being said, the sentiments and reactions of those who have forgotten more about a given subject than we'll ever hope to know as they pertain to an issue are good indicators and pulse points. To me, it is about as good as acquring the subversive and classified documentation itself. This is as logical as one moving off the tracks upon hearing the horn vs. waiting to be hit so as to confirm the realness of the train. Naturally speaking, the inclination to question things and beg caution on issues such as this is more closely related to survival than the illogical 'thinking' human who waits until all other options are exhausted, at which point it's too late and the unbelievable but admittedly real truth is staring back at them.

It also goes something like this:

America: You're with us or you're against us.
Allies: ok..
America: Because you're with us, you're terrorist targets.
Allies: ok..
America: You're targets so.. we'd like you to install these cameras everywhere because YOUR security is at risk!
Allies: But-
America: You're either with us or against us!
Allies: ok..
America: By the way, this will make your administration look really good because you have X, Y and Z problems, which this system also targets.
Allies: OK!


http://lealdaza.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/konichiwa-japan-will-fingerprint-foreigners-starting-in-november/

In a recent speech here in Japan, Barry Steinhardt (http://www.aclu.org/about/staff/13282res20020211.html), Director of the American Civil Liberties Union Program on Technology and Liberty had this to say:
“Officials of my government have been traveling the world urging other nations to cooperate with and join the United States in creating vast new infrastructures for the routine invasion of privacy, all supposedly to help defeat terrorism. They have in many cases been pressuring and sometimes bullying other nations into going along with this approach.
The Japanese Version of US Visit (http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/content_multi_image_0006.shtm) is a product of that pressure.”



http://japan.shadowofiris.com/politics/the-new-fingerprint-law/
I’d like to say I find the whole response to 9/11 strange, but unfortunately I can’t. It was all too typical. My guess is the program in Japan is a result of gaiatsu on America’s part. This is indeed quite sad.
NB: gaiatsu means foregin pressure


Program 'US Visit':
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/content_multi_image_0006.shtm

[Fel1city]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.
Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!
That's exactly my point. All the things you mentioned are easily accessible to the government (and shared with other governments).

I agree: its all about "too hot in the kitchen" and "when in Rome" etc its time we all played nicely in this thread and accept that if we wish to enter a country we must abide by their regulations

[Pachipro]

So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".


I would not have access to documentation like that any more than I'd have access to reports on whether or not the US was truly asleep at the wheel or in fact driving the bus on 9/11. But if you base your opinion solely on official reports and whats available on CNN you'll never get the whole story. In fact, this is precisely the kind of thinking anyone who wishes to pull wool over someone else's eyes counts on from outside observers.

Thank you bakaKandajin for understanding what is truly happening today. Unusual for a person of your age.

Puhleeze Glenski wake up! knock! knock! The light is on, but there doesn't seem to be anybody home! This is all a plan to eventually keep track of every single individual on this planet! I can provide you with links to prove my point, but I wish you and others would do some of this research on your own as it is all out there on the internet if you google the right words.

As mentioned above you WILL NOT hear of it on your local news media as they are also controlled 100% and it is very difficult (but not impossible) to find the official US documents. Most of this was probably discussed in face to face meetings between Koizumi, Cheney, Bush, Kissinger, etc. You can rest assured, however, that Japan WAS TOLD to follow the "wishes" of the US or else.

Here is a link to an article from a US Immigration Attorney's web site written in 2004. (http://www.eastbayvisalaw.com/eastbayvisalaw_news_article.aspx?main_idx=Oebvl200 4226232619&page=35) Excerpts:
This extension of the US-VISIT program will affect many close allies of the United States, including Australia, Britian and Japan. Asa Hutchinson, undersecretary for borders and transportation security, Department of Homeland Security (DHS), understands that many individuals will be disturbed by this change. However, Hutchinson says, "[the DHS hopes] that the international community will understand our new system. This step is designated to make sure the security issues will be addressed. This will be a measure to identify terrorists."
The first sentence above shoud be read between the lines to mean "and they must also comply in kind."
Therefore I guess American citizens visiting Japan are potential terrorists.

As of September 30, individuals from the following countries will be required to be photographed and fingerprinted upon entry into the U.S.: Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Britian, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

Oh really? why not the Middle East, Indonesia, and other Muslim nations whom the US claims are the real terrorists? Because the countries listed above are the countries that were bent to the US/UK will or are part of conspiracy for the New World Order in which every single individual will be tracked. For anyone to honestly believe that it is because of potential terrorism is to be sadly naive and ignorant to the fact as to who actually runs this world and why this is being implemented.

Citizens of Canada and Mexico will not be affected by this change in process.

Oh really!? Then why are the US borders open like sieves when anyone can walk across even today, six years after 911?

Glenski, this is not to ridicule or insult you, but your comment of "From all accounts I have read..." sadly shows you are one the "sheeple" who believes everything the controlled media wants you to believe and you are in the majority for now and that's why things like the fingerprint system in Japan is being implemented without any major protest from the foreign community like the Mexicans are doing here in the US. (Where is Debito on this and why is he not organizing major protests other than writing on his web site?) You blindly believe everything you read and they depend on that. Their "education" of you and sleight of hand is working 100%. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" (The Wizard of Oz)

Apparently you need a lesson and education in Conspiracy Theories 101 (which are only "conspiracies" to those who are behind this or refuse to believe) to enlighten you and anyone else who believes it is not true. Look for a thread on it.

Like you I was very skeptical in the beginning and didn't (want to) believe a word of it because I loved my country and thought they were doing the good of the people, but thanks to the internet my views have changed in the past 10 years as have thousands of others.

I am a Conspiratorialist with a capitol 'C' as my avitar says and there is not a conspiracy I have not researched. Few are BS to be sure, but the majority have the facts and documents to back them up if you can find them. And, for now, you can find them on the internet.

[kakuekiteisha]

Hi Folks, sorry for cross-posting, but since most of you do not agree with the discriminatory procedure of fingerprinting foreigners at the airports, you might be interested to take action and join this demonstration here in Tokyo:

PROTEST JAPAN'S VERSION OF THE "US-VISIT PROGRAM"!

STOP FINGERPRINTING NON-JAPANESE! TOKYO

PUBLIC ACTION OUTSIDE THE JUSTICE MINISTRY, NOON, NOVEMBER 20!
************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****

DATE: Tuesday, November 20, 2007

TIME: Noon (demo will take 30 minutes to an hour)

PLACE: Ministry of Justice, Kasumigaseki, st1:City w:st="on">Tokyo (Goudou Chousha #6) (Subway Marunouchi Line to Kasumigaseki Station, Bengoshi Kaikan exit)

From November 20, 2007, the Japanese government will put into effect the Japan version of the US-VISIT Program, where all non-Japanese entering Japan (with the exception of children under age 16, Diplomats, and "Special Permanent Residents" (i.e. ethnic Koreans, Chinese, etc.) will have their fingerprints and facial photographs taken every time they cross the border.

This is none other than a system to track and tighten controls on foreigners, including residents. The government and the Justice Ministry loudly claim that this is an "anti-terror measure", but consider the US-VISIT Program, inaugurated four years ago in the United States, that this policy is modeled upon:

"It has been completely ineffective at uncovering terrorists. Rather, it has been used as a way for the government to create a blacklist and stop human rights activists from entering the country." (Barry Steinhardt, American Civil Liberties Union, Foreign Correspondents Club of Japan October 29, 2007). We see Japan heading down the same path as the US.

Japan's version of the US-VISIT Program is so laden with problems, and passed without adequate deliberation by the Diet, that we call for the government and the Justice Ministry to immediately suspend it. To his end, we will assemble before the Justice Ministry on the day of its promulgation, November 20, 2007, for a demonstration and
protest. We call on the public to join us at noon that day and lend your support and participation.

ACTIVITIES: Sound truck with speeches
Placards, Message boards (NO TO FINGERPRINTING, FINGERPRINTING NON- JAPANESE IS DISCRIMINATION, "NON-JAPANESE" DOES NOT MEAN "TERRORIST" etc.--create your own slogan and bring your own sign!)

CONTACT:Amnesty International Japan (Tel 03-3518-6777)
Solidarity Network with Migrants Japan (SMJ) (Tel：03-5802-6033)

See you there!

ENDS (translated by Arudou Debito)

[Taiko666]

See you there!

I'll be there... it'll be only the 2nd time I've attended a demo, the other time being the huge Stop the War demo in London in 2003. It's amazing how Bush brings out the latent protester in people!

[pipokun]

Gordon Brown also requests our biometric data for visa application.
It is amazing that few Japanese protest it.

[Glenski]

From bakakanadajin:
Quote:Originally Posted by Glenski
So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".

I would not have access to documentation like that any more than I'd have access to reports on whether or not the US was truly asleep at the wheel or in fact driving the bus on 9/11. Then what do you base your statement on? Hearsay? Crystal balls? Where have you seen this "evidence"? Surely not in the so-called Steinhardt words: "The Japanese Version of US Visit is a product of that pressure." I could not find a copy of that speech anywhere, and you produce it from a blog as support (one that has plenty of profanity in its posts and links to life-size f*ck dolls)! Pretty shabby.

I don't watch CNN, but what about this report from Steinhardt?
"Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Program on Technology and Liberty, said the U.S. watch list is "bloated and full of inaccuracy."

"The U.S. immigration policy is a total failure," Steinhardt warned, expressing concern that Japan's version of biometric verification will likely be built on a flawed foundation.

(snip)
Speaking at the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Japan in Tokyo last month, Steinhardt alleged that not only will the immigration system put all visitors to Japan into an antiterrorist database, it will also fail to provide the defenses against terrorism that it promises.

He questioned the credibility of the U.S. terrorist list, noting it remains unclear how it is compiled — and how people get onto or off of it.

Steinhardt pointed out that pop singer Yusuf Islam, formerly known as Cat Stevens, was denied entry to the U.S. in 2004 apparently after being mistaken for another person with the same name (though spelled differently) on the watch list.

"It's full of mistakes. That is the reality in the U.S. and it's likely to become reality in Japan," Steinhardt said. "Whether or not the loss of liberty is worth the security gained is not a question — because no security is gained."So, Steinhardt says the policy here and in the USA are crap, which is what I'm saying, too. Thank you for helping my cause.


http://japan.shadowofiris.com/politi...ngerprint-law/

Quote:I’d like to say I find the whole response to 9/11 strange, but unfortunately I can’t. It was all too typical. My guess is the program in Japan is a result of gaiatsu on America’s part. This is indeed quite sad.

NB: gaiatsu means foregin pressureAgain! Blog editorial, with no substantiated evidence! The author described himself as follows: "I am a long term resident in Japan.
I run a small English school out of my house, and my hobby is writing."

Program 'US Visit':
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs...mage_0006.shtmWhat is this supposed to prove? Your hero Steinhardt (and others) has already debunked the validity of the US-VISIT policy and the Japanese counterpart. Show me where it says that the USA told Japan that this was a good idea and that they should set it up. Until you do, it is merely speculation on your part.

Did Japan perhaps feel some pressure? I would say yes. Was that pressure solely or primarily from the USA? Prove it. Was it anything approaching the mock conversation you typed? Prove it.

[Glenski]

Pachipro wrote:
Puhleeze Glenski wake up! knock! knock! The light is on, but there doesn't seem to be anybody home! This is all a plan to eventually keep track of every single individual on this planet! I can provide you with links to prove my point, but I wish you and others would do some of this research on your ownIt is up to you do prove the point, not me. I have read some of the earlier links (esp. about the UK), but that has already shown that not every politician is in favor of this worldwide "scheme".

As mentioned above you WILL NOT hear of it on your local news media as they are also controlled 100% and it is very difficult (but not impossible) to find the official US documents. Good, show me. The one you pointed out from 2004 can be read in more than the way you did (between the lines). "affect close allies" and "understand our system" could easily be directed at just the tourists and businessmen who have to pass through US-VISIT, not the governments. I believe the speech this came from was a US Press conference (perhaps this one http://fpc.state.gov/fpc/31101.htm , which I laughed through), something the Prime Minister of Japan or his cronies were likely not in attendance.

Glenski, this is not to ridicule or insult you, but your comment of "From all accounts I have read..." sadly shows you are one the "sheeple" who believes everything the controlled media wants you to believe and you are in the majority for now and that's why things like the fingerprint system in Japan is being implemented without any major protest from the foreign community Excuse me? You ask about Debito not having any effort put into this? Read his blog! Jeez! He has complaint letters out there, he makes speeches, he writes in the Japan Times. He has recently admitted he is job hunting because his own school refuses to give him a sabbatical so he can interview every politician in Japan with regards to discrimination!

Apparently you need a lesson and education in Conspiracy Theories 101 Educate me.
I am a Conspiratorialist with a capitol 'C' as my avitar says and there is not a conspiracy I have not researched.Good, save me the time. Show me the data. Like Debito, I have a full-time job and a family to take care of. If you actually have done the research, the information should be at your fingertips just waiting to spill out. My arms and eyes are open.

[bakaKanadajin]

This is just one more example of why your country is going down the shi**er Glenski. Let's take something more volatile and less subversive than the erosion of civil liberties and human rights, let's look at the genesis of said process, 9/11. There's already a thread on this and I have no desire to go into specifics here, but theoretically it bears relevance. On the topic of 9/11, AMPLE scientific and eye-witness evidence exists, suggesting in even the most tacit of considerations that more investigation is required; actually I'd suggest that the evidence points to something way more sinister and that the onus now rests with the government and not the 'conspiratorialists'. Saying the evidence isn't official-looking enough or doesn't receive enough major media attention is a cop-out. Naturally undesirable material rarely makes it onto major American network TV. It's heavily controlled, much like China's information and technology, since you can't even say the s-word before 10pm on most channels.

Yet, individuals like yourself are content to fall back on the 'official' reports and documents, smugly proclaiming that since you possess the 'truth' the onus is on others to investigate, dig, and attempt to uncover what common sense already seems to dictate. And then when new evidence and reports do come to light, you simply revert to the same reports and official documents and refuse to hear any of it. Admittedly the evidence available on the current erosion of civil liberties across the world isn't abundant as it pertains to the current discussion, but similar processess happening domestically are really all the evidence you need, with this discussion existing as a clear extension of that.

Arguing that it simply isn't happening because it isn't on CNN or in the papers is akin to a Christian fundamentalist trying to convince someone that the earth's really 6000 years old and God created in 7 days by snapping his fingers and doing a little bit of tap-dancing. The position seems like one of faith more than science, as science is always willing to at least entertain two sides of a story if reasonable doubt exists.

[Pachipro]

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover, former head of the FBIGood, save me the time. Show me the data.


OK Glenski you have it. Look for a thread in Serious Discussions entitled "Conspiracy Theories 101" and you will have your proof as everything I reference has the facts and data to back it up as this is not the thread to continue this debate. However, I somehow doubt you will believe it anyway even with documented proof, but I will put it out there for, as a TV program once proclaimed, "The Truth is Out There" (if only you will believe it I might add.)

[Pachipro]

PROTEST JAPAN'S VERSION OF THE "US-VISIT PROGRAM"!

STOP FINGERPRINTING NON-JAPANESE! TOKYO

PUBLIC ACTION OUTSIDE THE JUSTICE MINISTRY, NOON, NOVEMBER 20!
************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****

DATE: Tuesday, November 20, 2007

TIME: Noon (demo will take 30 minutes to an hour)

PLACE: Ministry of Justice, Kasumigaseki, st1:City w:st="on">Tokyo (Goudou Chousha #6) (Subway Marunouchi Line to Kasumigaseki Station, Bengoshi Kaikan exit)


Glenski, if you are serious in everything you have said so far I expect you to be there without excuses that you have to work or "feed your family". That goes for DEBITO also as I care not what he says in a blog or letters he has written, etc. If he and you are so serious I believe you both will be there. If not then I know you all are just blowing smoke up our you know what as you are more talk than action.

This is more important than any excuse you may come up with for not attending. As I have said before in many posts, NOTHING will get done without NUMBERS and all your rants and posts will be for naught and Debito's blog will be just that, rants and ravings with nothing getting accomplished. I'm not surprised that it was not Debito that organized this demonstaration, but someone else who puts their money where their mouth is.

If I were in Japan I'd be there no matter what! However, I will be there in spirit and I hope there is a good turnout because this is just the beginning!

There is NO EXCUSE for every westerner not attending this demonstration! None! Unless they care not that their biometics will now be recorded forever and will be put on a terrorist watch list, but we all know it is not for terrorism that they are doing this. It is something more sinister, but most will believe that it is in the name of "safety".

[ArmandV]

There is NO EXCUSE for every westerner not attending this demonstration! None!

Well, that's a challenge if ever I've seen one...:D

[Pachipro]

Umm, I should've said "every westerner residing in Japan"

[ArmandV]

Umm, I should've said "every westerner residing in Japan"
Dammit! Now I have to cancel my flight. ;-)
Yes, we know what you meant.

[Glenski]

bakakanadajin:
This is just one more example of why your country is going down the shi**er Glenski. If you are talking about the USA, I agree with you. Surprised?

bakakanadjin:
Yet, individuals like yourself are content to fall back on the 'official' reports and documents, smugly proclaiming that since you possess the 'truth' the onus is on others to investigate, dig, and attempt to uncover what common sense already seems to dictate. I am not smug. I do not know everything, nor do I rely solely on "official reports". I am merely saying that if you have the data, show me. I can't be everywhere, but if you have some information, it behooves you to lay it out. Common sense, by the way, isn't so common, and people see things differently, so show me the data and let me judge. Otherwise, I don't have the benefit of your acumen and keen judgment, so I only base my ideas and opinions on what I know. I am very sincere, not smug, in asking you to show me the information that I have not been privy to so far. Put your data where your mouth is. And, to respond further:
Admittedly the evidence available on the current erosion of civil liberties across the world isn't abundant as it pertains to the current discussionThat is a copout. You must have had something on which to base your opinions. Please (on bended knee and with clasped hands) show me what that was.

pachipro:
Glenski, if you are serious in everything you have said so far I expect you to be there without excuses that you have to work or "feed your family". Well, if you aren't going to listen to rational excuses, I can't help you. I'll be in Tokyo two days after that for a major conference (4-days long), and my schedule does not permit me to book time off for a 60-minute demonstration, nor can I afford to spend that much money, especially with a sick family to take care of. Sorry if this does not meet with your approval, but that meeting is not the only way people can prove their worth.

Oh, and I prefer to throw back the challenge to you. You aren't here, pachipro, but we seem to share some similar concerns about the fingerprinting policy. To me, that means there truly is no reason (including being out of the country) for you not to be there, too.

pachipro:
That goes for DEBITO also as I care not what he says in a blog or letters he has written, etc.If you don't care what the country's major proponent against discrimination writes on his blog or proposes for others to write to the government, then you are (pardon my language) far too narrow-minded to realize much. Debito has posted/forwarded the same announcement (with more info, of course), and if he can spare the time, I'm sure he'll be there. His own schedule with speeches (that he makes, not just attends) is pretty full, but he does seem to be in many places for such events. If he can't go for some reason, are you going to say that the Hokkaido Crusader isn't serious about this?

pachipro:
Look for a thread in Serious Discussions entitled "Conspiracy Theories 101" and you will have your proof as everything I reference has the facts and data to back it upThank you. I will look into that when I have the time. I'm sure there will be people trying to tear apart any absence I have in this forum while I do my regular work as well as taking the time to read that info, but I do have a life outside this one topic, ok? EDIT: No such thread exists in Serious Discussions, as far back as the beginning, nor on any other thread (based on a search scan). Sounds like a conspiracy (just kidding). Where is this so-called thread?

As for this not being the place for further such debates, I wonder where you propose it might be?

[Glenski]

One more point about Debito and his schedule:

He will be in Tokyo 2 days before that demonstration to give a speech at the following function. So, he does get around. (And, don't ask me if he is going to the Nov.20 event. I'm not his keeper. If you want to rant and rave about him, write directly to him.)

TOKYO NOV 18, "NO BORDER" GROUP ANNUAL MEETING

======================================
NO BORDER 2007
LIVING TOGETHER IN ONE SOCIETY
Round Table Discussion
Hosted by the Volunteer Network of Foreign Residents in Japan
More Information at http://zainichi.net/

Objective: Following last year's event, a round table discussion session will
be held with the aim to assist individuals in their efforts in networking.
Through discussion, this event aims to create an opportunity for individuals to
consider the experiences of foreign residents and Japanese nationals with
various cultural backgrounds in Japan.

18 November 2007, 10:00 - 17:00
Hosei University Ichigaya Campus, Boissonade Tower 26F, Sky Hall
http://www.hosei.ac.jp/hosei/campus/annai/ichigaya/access.html

Entrance free. Participants are free to enter and leave the event venue as they
wish.
Active participation is welcome and encouraged during the round table discussion
session.

Part 1 (10:00 - 12:30)
Is there a place for Japanese of foreign descent in Japanese Society?
Discussing the multiplicity of what it means to be Japanese: Is there a place
for Japanese nationals of various ethnic backgrounds in Japanese Society?

Defining the Issue: Presentation of the movie, "The New Foreign Residents of
Japan" (Shin-Zainichi Gaikokujin)

Presentation 1: Gen Masayuki
Presentation 2: Elnaz Jalali, Nady

12:30 - 14:00 Lunch Break (Light lunch is served)

Part 2 (14:00 - 16:30)
What is necessary for a system to support a new Lifestyle?

Presentation 1:Kim Kyon Ju (Chukyo University)
Presentation 2:Inoue Hiroshi (Keidanren--Japan Business Federation)
Presentation 3:Arudou Debito (Hokkaido Information University)

[bakaKanadajin]

I am not smug. I do not know everything, nor do I rely solely on &quot;official reports&quot;. I am merely saying that if you have the data, show me. I can't be everywhere, but if you have some information, it behooves you to lay it out. Common sense, by the way, isn't so common, and people see things differently, so show me the data and let me judge. Otherwise, I don't have the benefit of your acumen and keen judgment, so I only base my ideas and opinions on what I know. I am very sincere, not smug, in asking you to show me the information that I have not been privy to so far. Put your data where your mouth is. And, to respond further. .... You must have had something on which to base your opinions. Please (on bended knee and with clasped hands) show me what that was.

I can appreciate your point of view, and clearly I am obliged to provide some data if I want to change your mind. But I don't really need to 'win' this argument by delivering blows via a crushing statistical gauntlet of sorts, it's really just an online discussion afterall. If that's a cop-out so be it, but mind you, I could just as easily put you on the hook to show me clearly that the United States ISN'T trying to track its citizens overseas and that your civil liberties are in fact NOT being eroded.

There is a discussion already happening in the media (although as I've pointed out already not something you'll see on prime time TV) that will continue with or without our participation. Within this discussion there are different camps, namely those who believe everything's fine and those who are sounding alarms. I don't think you and I are far off, as you are sounding alarms over gaijin rights in Japan. I just think it's part of a bigger picture that's all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html

This is one of many articles you can find that are actually fairly 'mainstream' that talk about the obvious aspects of what's going on. Whether you believe it's being done altruistically or not, it's still a clear erosion of your rights, the rest is semantics.

http://www.silicon.com/research/specialreports/protectingid/0,3800002220,39119660,00.htm

Here is an article that appears on a technology website. It simply outlines the projected amount of biometric measuring and tracking equipment that'll be out there in around a decade.

So it's kind of like being circled by a bunch of vultures before you're dead; something's amiss but you have no reason to worry yet. That's kind of the crossroad (I feel) we're at right now.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/nafta_superhighway_rfid_card_for_citizens.htm

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a8c759d7-b16f-48a4-9b81-0c93f24478b9&p=1

Then there are slightly more ominous looking resources that add a little bit of spin to things, but otherwise outline fairly plainly the connected dots that people are gathering about the collected going-ons of various bureaucratic entities as they pertain to the bigger picture. The US wants comprehensive, secure data ID cards, the US and Canada want better border security, the US has an illegal immigrant problem, identity theft is an increasingly bothersome issue for everyone, Canada is apparently a 'terrorist haven', the US economy is sinking, etc. And when you put it all together in conjunction with what the US is already doing, an image forms.

So basically my only wish is to point out that while everyone deserves to have data in front of them in order to make an informed decision, a little digging and an open mind is necessary to get the entire picture. You will not get all of it otherwise. I do take these apocalyptic and hoakey looking websites with a large grain of sea-salt, but by and large there is alot more reputable information out there lately which simply draws on whats already available and suggest what's to come without any mention of the four horsemen.

[Taiko666]

Umm, I should've said "every westerner residing in Japan"

This westerner residing in Japan went. I was in quite a prominent position as my colleague and I were amongst the first punters to arrive. In addition to the 60 or so protesters there were hordes of press and TV cameramen there, but that will probably translate into a couple of seconds of Japanse TV air time at most...

[Pachipro]

Well congratulations to you for attending Taiko666. At least you made the effort to let your voice be heard. With only 60 or so attending I doubt very much if anything will get done to delay this. It probably made only a few seconds on the news like you said. Oh well, I'll get to experience it when I go back in another month.

By the way was Debito there? I would expect him to have been there. I hope he was. Also, I love your new avatar.

[ArmandV]

That is a cool avatar!

[mr.sumo.snr]

Mainichi covered the protests in some detail.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/

The BBC has a report on the new procedures and check the link at the top of the page to a BBC World video report too. Welcome to the 51st State!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7102962.stm

--

[Pachipro]

Yep it is the 51st state as the New World Order that is being formented has the EU, North and South America, and Japan as being in the same union! Why Japan is beyond me, but when I locate the link again I will post it. Sad day for all!

Anti-terrorist my butt!

[Glenski]

I can appreciate your point of view, and clearly I am obliged to provide some data if I want to change your mind. But I don't really need to 'win' this argument by delivering blows via a crushing statistical gauntlet of sorts, it's really just an online discussion afterall. If that's a cop-out so be it, but mind you, I could just as easily put you on the hook to show me clearly that the United States ISN'T trying to track its citizens overseas and that your civil liberties are in fact NOT being eroded.

Oh, c'mon. How can one prove negative evidence? The onus is on you. If those sites you just posted show the data, good. I'll eventually get to them. (Right now I have a 4-day conference to attend out of town.) I don't need a "statistical gauntlet", as you put it. Just one or two reasonable sites will do.

[mr.sumo.snr]

This morning I read the front-page story about the new immigration procedures in The Daily Yomiuri and then turned to page two to read a more in-depth article. Directly beneath the story there's the headline "Ginza robbery linked to intl crime ring" about a June 14 jewelry theft in Tokyo.

Wonderful timing eh? I guess that's why I still like the DY - you can always be sure of its conservative political leanings.

BTW the Justice Minister Kunio Hatoyama was quoted as saying: "The new entry control system will not allow the entry of dangerous people..." This guy just doesn't have a clue. Shintaro Ishihara can actually come across as making sense in comparison.


--

[Taiko666]

Well congratulations to you for attending Taiko666. At least you made the effort to let your voice be heard. With only 60 or so attending I doubt very much if anything will get done to delay this. It probably made only a few seconds on the news like you said. Oh well, I'll get to experience it when I go back in another month..

Thanks! It was no big deal to attend really. A number of my work colleagues declined to come since they thought it might jeopardise their visa renewals. Sad that the J-Gov has people thinking this way.

By the way was Debito there? I would expect him to have been there. I hope he was.

From my vantage point on the steps I saw somebody strongly resembling Debito in the crowd, but I can't be sure it was him. He said he was going to attend. If was him, he sat back and let others do the talking, something that would surprise his detractors.

Also, I love your new avatar.

Cheers, but alas I can't claim any credit for this- I lifted it from www.stippy.com. I've changed the avatar to reflect this.

Mainichi covered the protests in some detail.

My work colleague and I can be seen holding placards of the stippy avatar in the pics section of this article (http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20071120p2a00m0na020000c.html). Unfortunately, I'm the short ugly one...

Can't praise Japanese Amnesty International Japan (www.amnesty.or.jp) highly enough for this one. Their attitude, courtesy and vigorous opposition to the fingerprinting madness was very uplifting.

[pipokun]

Fingerprinting snares visa cheats
The government wants prints from every applicant by April 2008
Some 6,000 potential immigration cheats have been caught by a scheme to fingerprint visa applicants before they travel to the UK.
UKvisas said more than 500,000 sets of prints had been taken since the scheme was introduced last year, with 6,000 matched to "people of concern".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6936139.stm

I don't know the data of today, but about five people could not enter Japan yesterday.
And the ridiculous story was that the immigration conducted the former procedure for the people who lost their fingerprints. I bet the people would increase without fingerprints.

I am just wondering if cheaters would increase like in the UK.

[bakaKanadajin]

Oh, c'mon. How can one prove negative evidence? The onus is on you. If those sites you just posted show the data, good. I'll eventually get to them. (Right now I have a 4-day conference to attend out of town.) I don't need a &quot;statistical gauntlet&quot;, as you put it. Just one or two reasonable sites will do.

All I'm saying is that while there is some evidence and speculation on what IS happening, there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of weight behind the opinions of those who believe it's not happening aside from the usual 'That's silly', 'That's ludicrous', 'The government would/could never do that' comments. It's a 50/50 street. Relating back to the 9/11 thing, the onus is definitely on the government's side to respond to certain issues not addressed in the commission's report. I'd imagine the sites I posted, which you're free to investigate at your leisure of course, are 'reasonable', certainly not anyone's blog or diary.

[Glenski]

I'd imagine the sites I posted, which you're free to investigate at your leisure of course, are 'reasonable', certainly not anyone's blog or diary.
I hope this is not a stab at the highly informative blog of Japan's chief human rights activist...

[Dutch Baka]

Just found this interesting article that I wanted to share with you guys:


Prints rejected, scribe accepted

T he center of the little monitor ― I'd guess about 20 cm from the looks of it ― flashed the word "Yokoso" (welcome). Its colored border was festooned with a collage of images near and dear to visiting tourists' hearts: "torii" gates, the shinkansen, Zen gardens, Mount Fuji . . .


"Please place your fingers on the pad," ordered the immigration officer from behind the counter...

The green lights beside my fingers changed to red. Something was not working properly.
"Um, I can't seem to get a clear reading off your fingers," he said, popping open a container of premoistened finger wipes. "Please use this to clean them and try again..."



"Well, anyway, let's take a picture," he grimaced, standing up and tilting the camera angle upwards to accommodate my 189 cm height...

But wait a minute: My prints didn't take. Why wasn't I dragged off into a separate room and interrogated? Why, after all the fuss, was I simply admitted on the strength of my passport, status of residence and re-entry permit?...


Read the whole article (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20071127zg.html)

[Ewok85]

All aboard the FUD train...

The program is NOT the same as the US program - the Japanese program requires permanent residents and residents with working permits to give their fingerprints, while the US program requires only visitors (Tourists) to give their prints.

The system came about in the most unusual way. Did you know that the company who got the contract to setup the system asked for only 100,000yen? Thats a mere US$925. Sounds suspicious? Well it should, and some Diet members agree.
http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentview&pid=000188

The system itself merely records fingerprints and photos, which are then processed offsite. It would be impossible to cross check hundreds of thousands (soon to be millions) of fingerprints in only a few minutes. So far the government has been touting that it caught 5 people on the first day, but this was nothing to do with the new system and they were weeded out the way that many others are every day.

[bakaKanadajin]

I hope this is not a stab at the highly informative blog of Japan's chief human rights activist...

I posted some more that weren't blog entries; I was being serious.

[Glenski]

If anyone wants a huge amount of update on the policy and its pitfalls, please read this.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PALE_Group/message/5057
It's an enormous list of links and stories about how the government can't agree on this policy, how the fingerprinting process itself didn't even work (old people, dry fingers, broken machines) at some stations recently (and what officials did then), and other crazy stuff that just add fuel to the fire that this whole policy should be scrapped.

If you can't get access to that site, just read it on Debito Arudou's latest newsletter from his blog. It is very informative.

[pipokun]

All aboard the FUD train...
The program is NOT the same as the US program - the Japanese program requires permanent residents and residents with working permits to give their fingerprints, while the US program requires only visitors (Tourists) to give their prints.


One of the reasons would be that the US requests the police certificate and all of your fingerprints to visa applicants like your country, I think.
Did the embassy demand the document from you when you applied the visa?

Police records check
Consent to obtain personal information
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1101.pdf

Police Certificate: Each visa applicant 16 years and older must submit a certificate from the appropriate police authorities. This certificate should provide any information contained in police files concerning the applicant. All applicants must obtain a police certificate from their country of nationality, and the country of present residence if the applicant has resided there for six months or more. Applicants must also obtain police certificates from all countries where he/she resided for one year or more.
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/visa/tvisa-ivinterviewcheck2.html


Glenski, quote it here, please.

[Glenski]

Glenski, quote it here, please.
Ask, and ye shall receive.
http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=788
This is the latest newsletter, most of which seems to regard the fingerprinting policy.

[pipokun]

Glenski, thank you for the link, but what is your interest to talk about it here?
As many articles are there, I think it is good to be more specific.

[Glenski]

My "interest" is simply to inform. I live in Japan as a Permanent Resident holder and take serious offense at the fingerprinting policy. And you?

[pipokun]

Police Certificate: Each visa applicant 16 years and older must submit a certificate from the appropriate police authorities.
I think this is more offensive than the fingerprint.
Did the embassy of Japan request similar documents from you?

One of the reasons I want to stay away from crimes is the above, for many countries requres the documents.
The language skill is much harder hurdle for Japanese including me, though.

I am just curious how many Britons could pass the IELTS 6.5/5.5 or how many Japanese could pass the JLPT Level 1/2.

[Fel1city]

Have Japanese "permanent residents" of America made a similar fuss???? Security issues are the responsibility of the democratically elected powers-that-be: if you don't like it then disappear somewhere that suits your persuasion

[pipokun]

Some Japanese expats and wives are worried about the learning French order by the French government. In the worst case, a Japanese expat was ordered to take 400 hour French lesson... I think poor French speakers like me would hire more Japanese-speaking French people...
But when it comes to the security issue, few rants about it.

The few are someone like...
Human rights organisations say it violates foreigners' rights to privacy and could encourage xenophobia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7102962.stm

I don't know why the new security measure could encourage xenophobia...

[Glenski]

Quote:Police Certificate: Each visa applicant 16 years and older must submit a certificate from the appropriate police authorities.
I think this is more offensive than the fingerprint.
Did the embassy of Japan request similar documents from you?
One of the reasons I want to stay away from crimes is the above, for many countries requres the documents.
The language skill is much harder hurdle for Japanese including me, though.
I am just curious how many Britons could pass the IELTS 6.5/5.5 or how many Japanese could pass the JLPT Level 1/2.
pipokun,
Was your question above directed at me? I wasn't sure.

My reply comes from Arudou's blog entry quoted below (Red emphasis is mine.). Readers should take note that much of the information is not from Debito Arudou himself, but from others who have contacted the authorities in an attempt (sarcasm here) to get the straight story.

New Long-Term Residency Requirements: Prove you’re not a criminal even overseas
Posted by debito on November 1st, 2007

–HELLO BLOG. QUOTING A RECENT EXCHANGE ON THE COMMUNITY REGARDING HOW THINGS ARE TIGHTENING UP FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LENGTHEN THEIR VISAS HERE IN JAPAN:
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
October 4, 2007
Hello, Does anyone have any more information about this new (I think) development? What do they mean by long-term residents? Anyone who is not a tourist? Does it include permanent residents?
===============================
New Long Term Residency Requirements: Japan recently modified its Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act. The law now requires that long-term residents provide satisfactory evidence that they do not have a criminal record in their home country when renewing their resident card. To obtain such proof, U.S. citizens with long-term resident status in Japan need to contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and provide it with a copy of their fingerprints. To request such service, please follow the guidance listed here. For more details about the Japanese requirements, check with the nearest immigration office in Japan,
http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/ib-09.html
Source:
U.S. Department of State
Consular Information Sheet: Japan
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1148.html
===============================
I am getting really annoyed at being treated like a criminal what with all this fingerprinting. We seemed to be moving nicely away from that trend in recent years with the fingerprints being removed from our Alien Registration Cards. I am feeling distinctly unwelcome in the country I have called home for ten of the past twelve years… Shaney.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
I called immigration just now. I talked with a wise lady who has been at Nagoya immigration ever since I applied for my first visa extension over 12 years ago, she advised me when I got my first marriage visa, and my permanent visa. She also advised me when I wanted to sponsor a friend for permanent residence. So far she’s never steered me wrong.
She was completely baffled by me calling and said *I* personally have absolutely nothing to worry about, no one will be asking for my FBI records.
I tried to explain to her, I wasn’t necessarily concerned for myself but wanted to know if anyone else might have to at some point provide such FBI records. She said the only people she was aware of that required records from the FBI were American nikkeijin. She said this was indeed a new law, and that must be what the US state department is talking about. Even here, I think it might have only been third generation Americans that needed FBI records.
I found this requirement on the web, here it is:
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/HOUREI/h07.html
Now, I read her in English what was at the State Departments site, and explained it in Japanese as well. She could not make any sense of the idea that I would have to provide FBI documents merely to renew my gaikokujin toroku sho. (Gaijin card). She said that didn’t make any sense to her as it has nothing to do with your visa.
That was that. She could be in error.
I think most big changes in immigration law are generally posted here:
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/hourei/index.html
I looked there and could not find anything about needing FBI records. I will have a second look.
If anyone else looks into this, I would be interested in what they find out.
Best,
Matt Dioguardi
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
1) “Long term resident (teijusha)” is one of 27 Status of Residence (visa) categories.
The word “long term” is just a translation of “teiju” and has nothing to do with the validity of the Status of Residence nor the number of years you have lived in Japan. It’s just a name of the Status of Residence. So some have three year “long term resident” and others have one year “long term resident” on their passport. You can even obtain “long term residence” on arrival if you have a corresponding Certificate of Eligibility.
“Permanent Resident (eijusha, or eijuken)” is another Status of Residence. It is different from “Long term resident.”
Below is a list of all 27 Status of Residence categories. It has been like this for about 20 years, nothing new.
http://www.cas.go.jp/jp/seisaku/hourei/data/icrra.pdf ( p71 - 76, teijusha at the bottom )
2) However, the requirements for each Status of Residence have changed frequently. Part of it is stricter requirements for “Long term resident” because of, I think, recent crimes by the Japanese descendents (nikkei) with “Long term resident” Status of Residence who came to Japan with false documents or criminal records in home country (police clearance was not required back then.)
Not all “Long term resident” holders are required to submit police clearance, but only Japanese descendents (nikkei) and their spouse.
The new requirements below. (Only in Japanese) The phrase “sokou ga zenryou dearu mono = those whose behavior and conduct are good” was recently added to Item 3, 4, 5, 6 (i.e. requirement categories for Japanse descendents and their spouse), and is the legal basis for requiring police clearance.http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/HOUREI/h07-01-01.html
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/keiziban/happyou/nikkei.html
3) The new requirements themselves have nothing to do with “gaijin card” or alien registration card.
Akira HIGUCHI
////////////////////////////////////////////
COMMENT: THEN I WONDER WHY THE US EMBASSY WAS CONTACTING ITS AMERICANS ABOUT THIS IF IT’S BASICALLY ONLY PERTINENT TO NIKKEI TEIJUU? HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH YET ANOTHER BUNCH OF MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT A NEW LAW IN PRACTICE AND ON PAPER? ARUDOU DEBITO IN SAPPORO http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=639

Glenski back again...
Since I don't have to renew my PR status at all, that shouldn't affect me, but if it has anything to do with alien cards, I won't know until I renew mine next year. Seems doubtful that I'll be asked to give an FBI check, though, since I'm not nikkei.

[pipokun]

Nikkei visa is more lucrative and easier as you know. And it is natural after the horrible pedophile crimes. You can understand the feeling if you are from the country of Megan's and Jessica's Law.
The criminal record requirement is nothing unusual. I think it is offensive, but it is an effective measure not to worsen the xenophobia.

The government should enforce it to all visa applicants like your country, European nations, or Asian nations. Those countries are supposed to be less xenophobic than Japan, right?

*snip*
I am against the bloodline visa privilage, though I have nikkei friends.
I am against the special permanent resident loophole of some Korean and Taiwanse people about the fingerprint.

[nyouyaku]

Because the US has, let's say, an 80-90% probability of further international terrorism within it's borders while Japan has maybe a 0-.02% chance of it happening even once on home soil. Why aren't these procedures being applied domestically ? The only attacks ever committed in that country have come from their own people. :blush:

There is a huge point. These things are mainly for the Japanese immigration authorities to find who has dual citizenship. This means that they will be able to find out about your Canadian or American passport via visual digital and fingerprinting. So if you want to keep your dual citizenship with Japan, I strongly suggest you only travel as a Japanese national and exercise your second citizenship in that country only. There will be drawbacks to this. For example, a Japanese-Aussie or a Japanese Kiwi (New Zelander) will forfeit his commonwealth rights and easier opportunities to work in the UK, travelling on a Japanese passport. You shall never even make a second passport if you have a IC chipped Japanese passport. Japan will be able to link your foreign passport that will also have an IC chip and match your finger prints with your Japanese passport.

In a sense, by keeping your Japanese nationality, you have sort of renounced your commonwealth rights as a commonwealth citizen, and this dual citizenship game is getting increasingly tough.

[nyouyaku]

Nikkei visa is more lucrative and easier as you know. And it is natural after the horrible pedophile crimes. You can understand the feeling if you are from the country of Megan's and Jessica's Law.
The criminal record requirement is nothing unusual. I think it is offensive, but it is an effective measure not to worsen the xenophobia.
The government should enforce it to all visa applicants like your country, European nations, or Asian nations. Those countries are supposed to be less xenophobic than Japan, right?
*snip*
I am against the bloodline visa privilage, though I have nikkei friends.
I am against the special permanent resident loophole of some Korean and Taiwanse people about the fingerprint.

All nikkei should be given full Japanese citizenship before Japan accepts naturalization of complete foreigners.

Priority I propose

1) Those who were born in Japan who are full blooded.
2) Those who were born abroad to Japanese parents (both)
3) Those who are third generation full blood

Then those of mixed ancestry should be considered. But Japanese born in Japan, should be allowed dual nationality, but never given the right to however exercise the rights of his or her second citizenship. This is the Japanese way to deal with the population decline.

We need to provide all Nikkeijin of full blooded ancestry to reinstate Japanese nationality by registration. (Like British subjects given full British nationality in the past)

If this isn't possible, they need to make a Japanese Nationality (Overseas) like India did for People of Indian Origin, a Indian nationality (Overseas), where they will enjoy all priviledges except the rights to vote. It is a way to allow all Japanese to keep their identity as Japanese, keep their names in the Japanese koseki tohon, etc.

If they need to add requirements such as a language test for retention of dual citizenship to like middle school, this too is acceptable. (someone who can do this is definately going to be bona fide, and would have clearly indicated that they are still Japanese). Those who are of Japanese ancestry should come ahead of line over everyone including the zainichi koreans and chinese.

[Glenski]

All nikkei should be given full Japanese citizenship before Japan accepts naturalization of complete foreigners.
Priority I propose
1) Those who were born in Japan who are full blooded.
2) Those who were born abroad to Japanese parents (both)
3) Those who are third generation full blood
Then those of mixed ancestry should be considered.
This is ludicrous! Why are you promoting any priority at all?

Then those of mixed ancestry should be considered. But Japanese born in Japan, should be allowed dual nationality, but never given the right to however exercise the rights of his or her second citizenship.Even more ludicrous. You want to somehow exercise some control over a person's human right to choose citizenship now by forbidding them to take another country's nationality if he or she chooses. Apparently the only reason you give is to prevent a decline in the birth rate...? I don't follow this logic at all.

If this isn't possible, they need to make a Japanese Nationality (Overseas) like India did I am not familiar with what India did, but if a child is born to at least one Japanese parent abroad, that child can be put on the J parent's family register as well as be considered a citizen of the foreign country. At age 22, the child must then choose. So, the process is already there.

[nyouyaku]

Just his personal opinion, isn't it?
If his opinion were the official UN statement, please ask him to show off his opinon somewhere, preferably in the UN website. I want to do it, but you are the right guy with your English skill.
He should, at least, tackle with the trafic jam problem in NY now.
If the measure were for the gaijin with North Korean gaijin looks, it must be the xenophobia.
Stupid Japanese drug smugglers have been sentenced to death in an Asian country.
Stupid Asian drug smagglers have been arrested in Osaka, and they will be in jail for 10 years or so.

I think that for capital offenses, Japanese embassy can step in and help the person not be put to death especially if murder did not occur.

[nyouyaku]

This is ludicrous! Why are you promoting any priority at all?
Even more ludicrous. You want to somehow exercise some control over a person's human right to choose citizenship now by forbidding them to take another country's nationality if he or she chooses. Apparently the only reason you give is to prevent a decline in the birth rate...? I don't follow this logic at all.
I am not familiar with what India did, but if a child is born to at least one Japanese parent abroad, that child can be put on the J parent's family register as well as be considered a citizen of the foreign country. At age 22, the child must then choose. So, the process is already there.

I think you misunderstood me. I am saying that the person not be able to exercise his or her foreign nationality in Japan, where they will be allowed to be only Japanese. That if he or she is also American, that they can be American outside of Japan only. No JET program, and that is that. No special Gaijin treatment either. That they get full Japanese rights, but also, should Japan remove Article 9, and require all boys to serve for 2 years, they are doing this too. (By the way, you can't expatriate someone who gives 2 years of his life if they faithfully show up for it despite living overseas)

Just found this interesting article that I wanted to share with you guys:

This is because you co-operated and did everything in your part. If it was the fault of the Japanese immigration to not have a functioning apparatus, why would you be at fault for it? They obviously saw that it wasn't your fault as you did everything asked. So they cannot blame you.

[nyouyaku]

So perhaps they should start photographing and fingerprinting every Japanese person too - this was what I understood from Glenski's posts.
I'm quite happy about these new procedures now that I know I'll get my 'own' queue. Would I be correct in assuming that Green Card holders get fingerprinted but nevertheless line up with US Citizens at immigration control?
--

They have the Japanese people's faces on their IC Chipped passports. They got it alright. And should you make a passport with your second contry's having the same IC chip, the two datas will link up, and bam, you are busted. You will be caught for being a dual national.

[nyouyaku]

That is such a ridiculous question that I can't even think of a polite way to answer.

Why should he? He is gaijin. Staying a PR holder is the proper solution for someone non Nikkei. Only a Nikkeijin like those coming from Brazil should be making that final step. Anyway, many have chosen to forgo their third world country passport to take back their right to have one from the first world. They can just buy a permanent residency going to Brazil as any normal Japanese can also. (I am sure any American can also). So who gives a crap about losing Brazilian nationality as a Nikkei Brazillian being allowed to return to the status of being Japanese that they should have remained in the first place. If I was the government, I would make it so that these Nikkei Brazillians who are full blooded Nikkei be given a Japanese passport instead of a nikkeijin visa. Then, when they arrive, they would whine a lot less being asked to learn Japanese fully and put in more than other gaijin being granted the full rights as regular Japanese. I feel that their co-operation for re-integration into Japanese society would strengthen by this method. They wont complain why the blond hair blue eyed gaijin doesn't have to learn kanji and they do. If they are accepted as Japanese even legally, I believe that they would stop thinking this way, and accept their different treatment, as they would be given everything back they lost.

[nyouyaku]

What gets me is that people have to do this every time they enter or leave the country. Aren't they supposedly storing this information somewhere? I'd march down to my local town hall, offer up my ten digits and flash my pearly whites tomorrow if it meant avoiding long lines at the airport.
I do agree with Ewok's and similar opinions. Here are two debito entries on the matter:

Then perhaps we need to likewise make Japanese nationals give finger prints and do the same thing they do to all gaijin in all countries.
I know I have been harsh on gaijin, but I do think the reverse is fair game:
Mark Elliott Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:36 am
Hi, I think that if Japan is going to put these harsh barriers on all foreigners even permanent residents, I feel that the only way to make Japan wake up is to require all Japanese nationals to require visas to enter first world countries like the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zeland, United Kingdom, and all of the EU countries. If they want to play the “Sakoku” game, I think it would be likewise fair to not accept naturalization of Japanese nationals, or to make it equally difficult as Japan does on foreigners. In short, it should be made tit-for-tat, so that the Japanese people themselves will rise up and ask Japan to revise these xenophobic policies. It may be wrong to return the favor, but I feel that it is a necessary evil that all Japanese nationals be treated the same way Japan treats other gaijin trying to immigrate to Japan. But at the same time, we must be careful to return them the favour. Nikkeijin who are not citizens of Japan or dual nationals who enter other countries on their other passport should continue to be treated equally with other nationals of his or her respective foreign nationality.
I am sick and tired of the continued xenophobic attitudes of Japan, being a first world country, should have this favour returned by other first world countries on a tit for tat basis.
I studied about the history of the United States and the laws prohibiting Japanese from becoming Americans in the past. But I also wonder why should the Issei be given the right to become American when an American would have had the same difficulty becoming Japanese? I am sorry, but Japanese people must wake up to the fact that they should be made to lie in the bed that they made.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Something interesting and important for every non-Japanese who is going to go to Japan;




When entering the country, you will have to from now on give your fingerprints, and have your picture taken at the immigration.


I was their when they removed the fingerprint from the Alien Rego. Card.

We are heading back to Japan long term before mid. 2008 with our eight month old son.

My wife being Japanese will escape the interigation, I will get it, I wonder what will happen to little Kai?

He is registered in Japan as Japanese, however, he will travel on his Aussie passport which I presume will prove him as non Japanese on entry.

This may be a good introduction to Japan for Kai.

Japan NEVER ceases to amaze.

[pipokun]

Just use his Japanese passport.
When he does not have it, just go to the J embassy to apply it.

And unfortunately, he is still too young in the scheme.

Have a nice trip.

edit: Sorry I don't know how old he is, but do English speakers use "little someone" for people older than 16 years old?
I know kids are still kids for parents no matter how old they become.

[FrustratedDave]

I just came back from talking to one of the guys down at the City office about this. I was surprissed by him saying that it is silly how permanent residents have to do this( well actually I was hoping he would say that). This is the only beef I have with this new system.

[pipokun]

I just came back from talking to one of the guys down at the City office about this. I was surprissed by him saying that it is silly how permanent residents have to do this( well actually I was hoping he would say that). This is the only beef I have with this new system.
The City Office is not the competent authority who enforces the new scheme. Just go to the immigraiton office nearby.
I am also surprised to hear you did not know this. Sorry if your local city office in your home country would know everything.

[nyouyaku]

I just came back from talking to one of the guys down at the City office about this. I was surprissed by him saying that it is silly how permanent residents have to do this( well actually I was hoping he would say that). This is the only beef I have with this new system.

I think it is just Japan letting you PR holders know that a Gaijin is a Gaijin, an outsider, and it is just a friendly reminder that you are not one of the Japanese.

[Glenski]

There's more to it than that, nyouyaku.

[Dutch Baka]

Look what I have found:

Japan Ends Fingerprinting of Many Non-Japanese


By JAMES STERNGOLD,
Published: May 21, 1992
After years of bitter protests and debate, the Parliament passed a bill today that will eliminate routine fingerprinting of permanent foreign residents, a practice that many non-Japanese have regarded as a humiliating symbol of government-sanctioned discrimination.

While the news was welcomed by many foreigners, especially the Korean residents who will be the principal beneficiaries, many insisted the bill leaves in place an extensive system of unfair controls on non-Japanese residents.

For instance, foreign residents can still be arrested if they are found without their alien registration cards, or face criminal prosecution if they fail to report changes of address or jobs to the Government within two weeks. Permanent foreign residents, many of whose families have been in Japan for generations, also complained that they would still be denied the right to work for the Government or to vote.

"I'm pleased with this change, but if you look at other elements of the law, you will find it still includes many forms of discrimination," said Sohn Chung In, an official of the Korean Residents Union of Japan. "This is a step forward, but not a change in the society."...

Read the whole article. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DE113EF932A15756C0A9649582 60)

Please notice the publication date ;)

[nyouyaku]

remember, though, that was BEFORE September 11th.

[Glenski]

Yeah, yeah, nyouyaku. Like I wrote somewhere on this site, others have tried making that connection, but it doesn't wash for all the reasons given by me and others.

1. It doesn't include all foreigners.
2. No foreigner has commited terrorist acts in Japan.
3. Nobody has actually established a direct connection between 9/11 and the fingerprinting policy (which seems to have started 3 whole YEARS after 9/11). Pretty inefficient for the Japanese.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Not to go off topic, but it looks like Japan is not alone.....

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=53a194be-2deb-4531-a9ab-6577dd4d5c37

[Kyoto Returnee]

Australia tried to pass a bill not so long ago requiring ALL residents to have an ID card. It failed!

Thailand also has ID cards.

The thing about Japan is that it is for non Japanese only, correct?

[Mikawa Ossan]

The thing about Japan is that it is for non Japanese only, correct?
How is that different from what the European Union is proposing?

[FrustratedDave]

The City Office is not the competent authority who enforces the new scheme. Just go to the immigraiton office nearby.
I am also surprised to hear you did not know this. Sorry if your local city office in your home country would know everything.
Of corse I knew, but what I was supprised about was the guy at the City office saying how silly it was for PR to have to go through the proccess, I would have figured they would have been told that it is their duty to keep foriengers properly informed. I also know that it is the immigration that does the enforcing, but I am almost friends with the guy at the City office b/c ever time I have to update my alien card or register something or get a Jyuuminhyou or anything else, I always talk to this guy. It was more of a general conversation than me asking why we had to do this.:-)

[Razzaq]

Hi, This post of yours is very beneficial and informative, however there are some specific facts or information that I require. If anyone can help me in this matter then please send me a private message.
Best Regards,

[Glenski]

What do you want to know, Razzaq? PMs work both ways.