Misconception of foreign crime rate in japan

[junjunforever]

Japan's crime rate is one of the world's lowest at 1,776 reported crimes per 100,000 people in 2005, according to the latest government statistics. The number of crimes among Japan's 2 million foreign residents in 2005 was 2,380 per 100,000.

The statistics don't break out visa-related offenses, which in 2003 accounted for 46 percent of crimes committed by foreigners. By their nature such breaches can't be committed by Japanese citizens.

Japan's overall crime rate in 2003 was 2,185 per 100,000 and 2,120 among foreigners. Excluding visa offences, the rate was 1,570 per 100,000 foreigners.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aYcwt1Z7zy_E&refer=japan

Crime rate of foreigners are higher overall, but if you exclude the visa problem, crime rate of japnese in Japan is actually higher than foreigners in japan.

So now. Foreigners who have been abused with wrong facts by rightwing xenophobic superiorists, you can proudly tell them that the foreigner's crime in japan is no where near as bad as they try to make it out to be.

[pipokun]

if you exclude the visa problem
Ok, just count the Japanese undocumented immigrants in the states and include the crime rate of Japanese outside Japan.
Visa/immigration-related crimes by Japanese outside Japan in 2006: 113 cases/126 people in total
http://www.anzen.mofa.go.jp/anzen_info/pdf/2006_03.pdf

You should show your patriotism to prevent the undocumented immigrants from your country in the US.

[JimmySeal]

That's all irrelevant, pipokun. Please don't change the subject. The point is, many Japanese like to construe foreigners as crime-loving maniacs, when in actuality, Japanese citizens commit more serious crimes per capita in Japan than foreigners do.

[Goldiegirl]

My husband (Japanese) always tells me that the almost all of the crime in Japan is commited by Chinese or Koreans. Really! I am not surprised by his thinking as everyone around him thinks the same. :(

[pipokun]

I know the second sentece is totally irrelevant, but when it comes to the visa/immigration related crimes, it is not unfair if you don't take the crimes by Japanese overseas into account.

[caster51]

That's all irrelevant, pipokun. Please don't change the subject. The point is, many Japanese like to construe foreigners as crime-loving maniacs, when in actuality, Japanese citizens commit more serious crimes per capita in Japan than foreigners do.

according to police statistics in 2006,
http://www.npa.go.jp/sosikihanzai/kokusaisousa/kokusai2/2.pdf


serious crimes per capita of Gaijin was much higher than japanses though
I think it is natural that gaijin crime less than Japanese

[junjunforever]

according to police statistics in 2006,
http://www.npa.go.jp/sosikihanzai/kokusaisousa/kokusai2/2.pdf
serious crimes per capita of Gaijin was much higher than japanses though
I think it is natural that gaijin crime less than Japanese


Actually, i couldnt find any information regarding comparing the japanese crime rate and foreigner's crime rate. It just has bunch of statistics only on foreigners in japan and do not have any comparison figures with Japanese. I may have missed the information, so point it out as a page number if such infomation is included in the report.


And pipokun. You ARE missing the point. This isnt about if japanese worldwide are better citizens than non-japanese citizens.

We are only comparing if crime rate by foreigners in japan is as bad as the 2ch.net people make it out to be.

And according to bloomberg, one of the most respected jounals, the crime rate by foreigners is less than the crime rate in japan if you exclude visa crimes. This does NOT say that foreigners are nicer than the japanese. It is natural for foreigners to commit less crime. But this does prove that japanese ultray right xenophobics like you and caster and nagayuki (or something like that) are wrong in trying to paint the picture that foreigners are the source of all evil crimes, and that less foreigners would make the country better.

[KirinMan]

Once again pipokun and caster have managed to bluntly take the conversation off course and "insist" that informati:okashii:on about Japanese living overseas must be taken into account.

Just in case neither of them read the subject of this thread.

Misconception of foreign crime rate in japan

I made it larger so you wouldnt miss the point of the thread. :wave:

I would ask that people keep it in mind as they reply. If you start commenting to that it is taking the thread off topic in my opinion. This thread is about statistics about here in Japan.

Jun makes a good point, I agree that the problem is misconception.

My question for him is, what do you think needs to be done to change that misconception? Any ideas?

[caster51]

i couldnt find any information regarding comparing the japanese crime rate and foreigner's crime rate

P.7
japanese population is 126,000,000...587.000 crimes
gaikokujin....................2,000,000...total 27,000

serious crimes; murder , rape, robbery ,burglary,arson, stealing money from vending machine . credit cards forgery ......

I think it is natural that there is no gaikokujin crime.

especialy ,gaikokujin crimes are increasing in hokkaido, kyuusyu and contryside

and Korean violence pickpockets groups are scary ..
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20070911TDY02009.htm

Indeed ,i think other foreigner should complain to them

[pipokun]

Imprisoned criminals (http://www.moj.go.jp/TOUKEI/t_k02.html)
79,055 in total===>A
6,183 (foreign natinals)===>B
B/A*100=7.8
FYI, the registered non-Japanese is now about 2 million people here now, and I hope that another 7 million non-Japanese would live here to verify the imprisoned rate would not be the problem.
Of course, I know the foreign nationals included the people coming here as a tourist and arrested here. If you say it is not fair, just count the Japanese crime rate overseas.
Anyways, Japan is the country where the police has to explain firing a blank shot. If a police would kill a suspect, liberal media would be glad to keep covering it for a year.

[Ewok85]

Of course, I know the foreign nationals included the people coming here as a tourist and arrested here. If you say it is not fair, just count the Japanese crime rate overseas.

That... doesn't make sense. If anything we should be counting the 7million foreign tourists who come to Japan each year.

[pipokun]

This data on the number of the arrested in 2005 does not include the crimes in the special laws such as visa/immigration related and traffic related crimes.
Permanent residents including Asians with special resident status: 6281
(6281/801713)*100 = 0.78(%)
Non-permanent residents, tourists: 33037
(33037/8650000) *100 = 0.38
Japanese; 347916
(347916/127000000)*100 = 0.27

One million Japanese live in other countries with the regident status
17 millions of Japanese go overseas.
If 0.38% (or 0.27%) of the Japanese, more than 60,000/a year, were arrested outside Japan, no county would give us the visa waiver program.

It is just 598 Japanese, including the immigration/drug/traffic related crimes which I excluded them above, that were arrested. Of course, there may be tough Japanese criminals which refuse help by the Embassys.
Japanese may just hope fewer crimes like Japanese students/tourists/salarymen while you stay in other countries.
http://www.anzen.mofa.go.jp/anzen_info/pdf/2005_03.pdf

Working a bit too hard was taken as a sort of crime before WWII, but I've never heard emigrated Japanese found a Yakuza gang organization.

[Chidoriashi]

Pipokun, I think I see what you are implying. Regardless of the foreign crime rate compared to the Japanese crime rate in Japan (And the foreign crime rate for Westerners and Koreans is without a doubt lower than the Japanese rate in Japan by the way). You still feel that the foreign crime rate should be lower (ie, foreigners should stop committing crimes) because the crime rate of Japanese abroad is way lower, than the crime rate of foreigners in Japan.. according to your sources.

Well that is an interesting way to look at it. But I must say it is still irrelevant to this thread because it still doesnt erase the fact that foreigners in Japan commit less crimes than Japanese by rate.

Regardless of how you feel about what the foreign crime rate should be the point of this thread is to show that the picture of foreigners being criminals as compared to Japanese IN Japan (same geographical playing field) is FALSE.

Besides it is not really fair to compare the Japanese living abroad to many of the foreigners who come to Japan because Japanese come from a 1st world country and were raised in a much better environment that many of the 3rd world foreigners, who have lived in poverty, who come to Japan.

So the bottom line is (in this thread). The average Japanese walking down the street in Japan is more likely than the average foreigner walking down the street to commit a crime against you. Period.

[pipokun]

0.78
0.38
0.27
the data is people living in Japan.
One of the poverty-related crimes must be the visa/immigration related one. But as I said above, I exclued the crimes from the data for fairer argument here.
So the bottom line is (in this thread). The average Japanese walking down the street in Japan is more likely than the average foreigner walking down the street to commit a crime against you. Period.

In your logic, we have to conclude the special permanent resident is three times more dangerous. Up to you. Period.

[Chidoriashi]

That is according to your stats Pipokun. I stand corrected is some respects. Because I'm unsure of the rate of total foreign crime, but I looked up some stats that I had found before on this site. ..www.jref.com/society/foreign_crime_in_japan.shtml
Here are some crime rates in Japan by country.

Chinese (0.428%)
Brazilians (0.351%)
Japanese (0.291%)
Russians (0.271%)
Philippinos (0.101%)
Thais (0,051%)
Koreans (0.024%)
Britons (0.021%)
Americans (0.016%)

According to these stats, the average Japanese walking down the street is more likely to commit a crime than all other foreign groups besides Brazilians and Chinese. It seems Westerners and Koreans are 12 to 18 times LESS likely to commit a crime than a Japanese is in Japan. Koreans by the way make up the majority of foreigners in Japan, and the fact is a Japanese is way more likely to commit a crime in Japan than they (Koreans) are. Now I know that must go against all of your logic (because in your mind I'm sure a Japanese can do no wrong especially in comparison with Koreans of all people), but it is the truth.

And you've missed my point completely about the poverty. I'm not talking about poverty related crimes. I'm saying that you are trying to compare the behavior of Japanese living abroad, to foreign nationals in Japan and that's not fair. Japanese pretty much all come from good backgrounds and were not raised in bad conditions. Brazilians and Chinese (the groups with a higher crime rate than Japanese) were probably not brought up in a good environment like Japanese were. My point is, that if Japan were a 3rd world country I doubt Japanese would act much better abroad than Chinese, Brazilians or anybody who comes from countries where life is not nearly as easy.

[pipokun]

My point is, that if Japan were a 3rd world country I doubt Japanese would act much better abroad than Chinese, Brazilians or anybody who comes from countries where life is not nearly as easy.

Have you ever heard Japanese emigrants would have established yakuza organisatoins in the US or South America?
Just ask Japanese Americans or Japanese Brazilians. Working a bit too hard in poorer conditions than other Asian emigrants was assumed to be a serious crime before WWII, though.

[bakaKanadajin]

Also to consider, there is a large organized Chinese criminal element in Japan trying to break into the prostitution and drug markets as I understand it. They're going to be much higher on the list but this doesn't accurately represent Chinese nationals living in Japan as a group. It would be impossible to determine this, but there would be a difference if you were to separate those who go to Japan and for whatever reason randomly commit a crime, and those who go there specifically to engage in criminal activity.

[Chidoriashi]

Pipokun> Umm I'm not sure what you are getting at with the whole "emigrants working too hard thing". Are you trying to imply that Japanese emigrants to America worked harder than Chinese or something.... ?? because your ethnicity always determines how hard of a worker you are.... (sense the sarcasm)

Second, you still dont seem to see what I am saying about the people in poorer countries. Japanese people of today come from a 1st world nation, and have a high standard of living, with access to education, healthcare, and there are few poor people. You with me still..?

Chinese, Brazilians etc.. come from countries where there is a lot of poverty, where people basically live harder lives, and are raised in harsher environments.

So what I am saying is that it is not fair to compare the behavoir Chinese/Brazilians living in Japan to that of Japanese living in other countries.
This doesnt make criminal behavior ok, but you should not imply things like Japanese are so much better than them. Because in reality if Japan was a 3rd world country, Japanese living abroad probably would not act any better.

Lastly... about organized crime... why would you expect the average Japanese American to know anything about Japanese yakuza activity in America?? Do you think the average Irish American knows anything about the Irish mob activity, or the average Italian American knows anything about the Italian mob activity? I think you would be very ignorant to assume there is not Yakuza activity in America, just because the average Japanese American doesnt know anything about it. Like Bakakanadajin said anyway, the mob is the mob and their purpose is to commit crime so.. you cannot really equate their criminal acts with average citizens from the same country.

[pipokun]

So what I am saying is that it is not fair to compare the behavoir Chinese/Brazilians living in Japan to that of Japanese living in other countries.
This doesnt make criminal behavior ok, but you should not imply things like Japanese are so much better than them. Because in reality if Japan was a 3rd world country, Japanese living abroad probably would not act any better.
Japanese emigrants do not get reputation of crime in the US or in South America, even though they had to emigrate there in much harder times.

So the living standard or education does not matter.

[MadamePapillon]

This might be slightly off topic but Japan is often marketed to us 'foreigners' as a party destination. I don't know if this is done intentionally as a way to boost their economy or reputation or if it just got out that Japan was the place to go to party but either way the message is loud and clear: Come to Japan if you want to have a good time.

At any rate, when you get a reputation like that you attract a certain kind of person...namely trouble makers. The kind of person that's looking to get hammered, dance all night long, pick up some hot japanese women and generally make an idiot of themselves.

It seems at little bit...let's say hypocritical to come overseas and try to attract foreigners to party in your country and then get all offended when they get drunk and vandalize a building. I'm not saying it's Japans fault...but you can see where they should have seen this coming.

[kireikoori]

HAHA! All these posts by a user named Junjunforever. How appropriate. XD

Li Chun's blog, NEVAR FORGET.

It does seem to be true that Japan likes to exaggerate foreign tendency toward crime. Seems like all the time I'm hearing about kids in Japan killing people.

Japan does have one of the lowest crime rates in the word. But the way Japan acts, it's kind of demeaning towards foreigners. I wish they didn't do it, but there's nothing I can do about it. Shikata ga nai.

[Glenski]

If you want to get some good background on the misconceptions of foreign crime in Japan, read this slightly old JREF thread. (Yes, we gotta learn to read old threads so that we don't start the same old cr@p again and again, folks.)
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6361

This article (ALSO on JREF, folks!) is also particularly interesting, as it does a nice, clear cut calculation and description of (2004) crime rate. Look carefully. You might see that the Japanese crime rate (a figure better than simply the number of crimes) is higher for Japanese than for most foreigners here. Makes you want to say hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
http://www.jref.com/society/foreign_crime_in_japan.shtml

[pipokun]

Glenski, you posted the same old cr@p as Chidoriashi again.

I understand Americans, Britons, Aussies or whoever behave better than their home countries get upset to be categorised into "foreigner", but it causes another problem if the police would conduct Asian/South American-only racial profilings.

[diceke]

Is the OP playing down the criminality of visa violations?:okashii:

Illegal immigration and visa overstays ARE crimes. The authorities should crack down on the illegals, and remand the violators for visa violation charges.

I'm not saying that the illegals are more likely to commit other kinds of crimes. Actually, they may have an extra incentive to stay away from such crimes to avoid deportation. However: 1. Some illegals use criminal organizations to enter the country, and they are feeding the smugglers with millions of yen! 2. The illegals themselves are more likely to fall victim to a crime, but they can't get any help due to the fear of deportation.

Comparing foreign & Japanese crime rates in Japan is plain stupid. First, comparing non-identical groups involves a lot of guesswork. (It is also a question of what is actually documented and what is not.) 2. Just because your backyard is dirty, it doesn't mean your neighbour can come in and dump garbage in there.

[diceke]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/979/illegalqv4.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilIWzg6ums

Those who insist that illegal immigrants in Japan are not criminals should read Chapter 9 (Penal Provisions) (http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/icrr-22.html) of the Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Act.

[Ewok85]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Is the OP playing down the criminality of visa violations?:okashii:

No, they are saying that visa violations are a unique crime that can only be committed by non-Japaneses, and that you need to exclude them from the criminal statistics to create a reasonable comparison.

Apples and Oranges mate.

[diceke]

Yes, apples and oranges. The comparison of crime rates in the original article is not reasonable, to begin with.
A crime is a crime, nevertheless. Don't exclude that from the stats.

[diceke]

Has anyone actually tried calculating the stats on Bloomberg.com? I have no idea where some of these numbers come from, they don't quite match the stats on the National Police Agency website? Are they accurate?

Hmmm? Anyone?:?
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/886/foreigncrimelt0.png
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aYcwt1Z7zy_E&refer=japan

[Glenski]

Has anyone actually tried calculating the stats on Bloomberg.com? I have no idea where some of these numbers come from, they don't quite match the stats on the National Police Agency website? Are they accurate?
Hmmm? Anyone?:?
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/886/foreigncrimelt0.png
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aYcwt1Z7zy_E&refer=japan
Statistics in this country are manipulated enormously to suit the individual or government agency. I find it hard to believe much of it anywhere here.
That quote doesn't give enough material to show how bogus the numbers are, but let's give it a go with some assumptions.
In 2005, Japanese committed 1,776 crimes/100,000 people.
In 2005, non-Japanese committed 2,380 crimes/100,000 people.
If we use the 2003 figure that 46% of non-Japanese crimes were visa related and apply that to the 2005 figures, that means in 2005 non-Japanese committed 64% x 2,380 = 1,523 crimes/100,000 people. HEY! Fewer than the Japanese!
And, if we look at the last part of that quote, including or exluding visa offenses, foreigners' crime rate was lower than Japanese.
So, what's the beef about non-Japanese now?
People also like to throw out the rising number of crimes by foreigners, but they fail to realize that the number of foreigners is also growing. They should not count number of crimes, but a percent or rate of them.

[diceke]

In 2005, Japanese committed 1,776 crimes/100,000 people.
In 2005, non-Japanese committed 2,380 crimes/100,000 people.
If we use the 2003 figure that 46% of non-Japanese crimes were visa related and apply that to the 2005 figures, that means in 2005 non-Japanese committed 64% x 2,380 = 1,523 crimes/100,000 people. HEY! Fewer than the Japanese!

What I'm questioning is the accuracy of these specific numbers, like "2,380 crimes/100,000 people", "46% visa related crimes". Are they accurate? If so, what are the sources?
First, the article mentions the number of reported crimes per 100,000 people among 2 million "foreign residents", but then he's citing the number of crimes that lead to the arrests of "visiting aliens", which is a totally different breed of "aliens". The article is confusing the two, and it's misleading us.

visiting aliens in 2003
27258 penal law offenses, 13357 special law offenses (including 10550 immigration act offenses), 40615 total offenses
10550÷40615=0.25975
"other" aliens in 2003
10277 penal law offenses, 1462 special law offenses (62 immigration act offenses), 11739 total offenses
62÷11739=0.0005
aliens offenses total in 2003
37535 penal law offenses, 14819 special law offenses(10612 immigration act offenses), 52354 total offenses
10612÷52357=0.20269

Therefore, the violations of the immigration act account for 20% of total offenses for all aliens, 26% for visiting aliens, 0.05% for "other" aliens. "46% visa related crimes" is overinflated. (Notice that not all immigration act offenses are related to visas, and it's also possible for Japanese nationals to violate this Act.)

[Ewok85]

Yes, apples and oranges. The comparison of crime rates in the original article is not reasonable, to begin with.
A crime is a crime, nevertheless. Don't exclude that from the stats.

A crime is not statistically relevant when the crime cannot be committed equally by both groups that are being compared.

Remember to read what you are quoting too - the statistics have crimes committed and people arrested - a single act can have multiple convictions and fall under several categories making it sound much worse.

[diceke]

Remember to read what you are quoting too - the statistics have crimes committed and people arrested - a single act can have multiple convictions and fall under several categories making it sound much worse.
Right. The number of people remanded for immigration offenses is 9,274, which indeed makes up 46% of all arrested/remanded visiting aliens.

Also, there are statistical differences between (1) the number of reported crimes, (2) the number of crimes that actually lead to arrest, and (3)the number of arrested people. So it seems like the Bloomberg article is guilty of mixing up all three, because you can't accurately infer (1) the number of reported crimes of 2 million "foreign residents" from either (2) or (3)of "visiting aliens".


The analysis in the OP is seriously flawed to begin with.

[Ewok85]

Its a common mistake with statistics, or just a plain manipulation. When I get time I'll get you the official crime stats (in Japanese though) and give a nice writeup :)

[diceke]

Its a common mistake with statistics, or just a plain manipulation. When I get time I'll get you the official crime stats (in Japanese though) and give a nice writeup :)
I tried to find out the crime "rates", but the "rates" are mostly rough estimates.

[Ewok85]

The national police website has accurate reported, arrest and convicted rates. Like I said, when I have time >_<