Islam in Japan

[drag_lp3]

Islam, a common Arabic word for "Submission", is yet to be known as the fastest growing religion in the world. It persuaded countless thousands worldwide, including Japanese, in terms of astronomy - e.g. the revolving sun [see National Geographic January 1994], chemistry, geography, history - nearly related to those of Judaism and Christianity, law, etc and received their attentions.

According to an Arabic Islamic TV station on the Arabsat, Equraa, Japanese are among those who get to know Islam via Internet and/or other ways, and culturvated the religion. But it is never too easy praying in Arabic compulsorily, for it is a language with tongue-twisting tones chosen by God for mistranslational purpose. That is, Arabic is a tough language to make errors in translation very easily. Despite the language, the Koran - the Bible of the Moslems - is published in various languages as a dictionary to meet the demand of non-Arab Moslems who knew nothing about Arabic before.

But currently in Japan, Moslems only make up probably less than 10 percent of the country. And to keep this new way of life alive in such a huge environment, the Japanese Prime Minister should build more mosques, Islamic and Arabic schools, establish a national program - with association with Saudi Airlines - that will help Japanese Muslims get plane tickets to Mecca - a holy city of Saudi Arabia - during the annual Hajj season, and good Islamic libraries should be built to meet the Moslems' demand of literature nationwide [or stock-pile existing libraries with Islamic and Arabic literature books]. This way, maybe a Japanese Moslem will receive an award for his or her country from the U.A.E. government in the near future.

P.s. Special links for all Japanese Muslims and would-be:

http://www.islam.com
http://www.mcb.org.uk
http://www.maktoob.com
http://english.planetarabia.com

[Hanada Tattsu]

Well, I'm not a Muslim, nor do I live in Japan, but the thing is that, there is no demand for it in Japan.

Over 98% of the population is Buddhist. 0.7% of Japanese people are other religions, like Christian, Muslim, etc. There are hardly any Christian churches in Japan, mainly because there are hardly any Christians in Japan.

So, why would the government erect more mosques if there are less than 1% of Muslims in Japan?

I'm not being predujice, but usually, the Japanese have, even in times of war and occupation, tightly held to their religions and customs.

:note:

[Mandylion]

The proplem with most imported religions is a high degree of doctrinal exclusivity that the Japanese mainstream finds difficult to accept. This is largly why religions like Christianity and Islam have so few followers in Japan (last I heard their were around 500,000 Christians). For example, most Japanese people think of themselves as Buddhist and Shintoist (if religious at all), attending rites for both without any religious conflict or objection. Buddhism and Shintoism have exsisted for centuries side by side. Traditional Japanese homes may include both a butsudan and a kamidana (Buddhist alter to the ancestors and an alter to the kami).

Even in the New Religions, which tend to be more exclusive than traditional Japanese religions, often allow their followers to perform rites from other religions on behalf of a deceased parent, simply because that parent was a different religion.

As I understand Islam, and I do not make claims to being an expert, please correct me if I am wrong, there would be problems with allowing worship of Allah, the Buddha(s), and the Kami by the same individual. If Islam asks people to give up their family practices and ceremonies that for many are a central part to their identiy, Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, will not get vey far in Japan.

I don't mean to put your ideas down Drap_lp3. I think religious diversity in Japan is a good thing and I would encourage you to spread your views with compassion and understanding. I just wanted to add to your discussion by pointing out some unique challenges beyond the ones you clearly mentioned. -M

[Enfour]

Originally posted by drag_lp3
But currently in Japan, Moslems only make up probably less than 10 percent of the country. And to keep this new way of life alive in such a huge environment, the Japanese Prime Minister should build more mosques, Islamic and Arabic schools, establish a national program - with association with Saudi Airlines - that will help Japanese Muslims get plane tickets to Mecca - a holy city of Saudi Arabia - during the annual Hajj season, and good Islamic libraries should be built to meet the Moslems' demand of literature nationwide [or stock-pile existing libraries with Islamic and Arabic literature books]. This way, maybe a Japanese Moslem will receive an award for his or her country from the U.A.E. government in the near future.


And why should Koizumi do all or any of this?

Unless there is the demand for mosques and the other items you mentioned, why should this be done?

I am all for religious freedom, but I don't think that anything needs to be forced on people. If people want to convert to Islam, I am sure there are ways to find the right information and speak with the right people - yes even in Japan and even now.

Go forth in peace.

[philupthetank86]

arabic is hard, well the alphabet is at least, once you learn the alphabet im sure its not THAT hard, dam means blood, thats about all i know,

[thomas]

I found the alphabet pretty easy to learn, at least much easier that hiragana and katakana, lol. As far as classic Arabic is concerned grammar and pronounciation are tough.

[drag_lp3]

I know many people in Japan criticize Islam or even criticize Japanese for converting to Islam; I've been receiving negative replies for the closed forum "Islam in Japan" which was just only a wake-up call to help out the minor Moslem population there. But no one cared about he poor Japanese Moslem communities and I got mocked as if I had sex with the teenage Japanese girls, e.g. "Go forth in peace".
As you saw Muhammad as a contrast to Abu Lahab, so were the Moslems that spread Islam outside the Arabian Peninsula, and also the same to the pagans in and outside the peninsula that converted to the religion. But Moslems, not only criticize for their strange way of life, were are being executed as shown:

. Abu Lahab in the A.D. 600's ordered severe punishment
for his people in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, who converted
to Islam and deny the worship of the 600 idols.
. France invaded the Caliph's Iberian Peninsula and killed
Arab and Spanish people who were being caught.
. Palestinians were killed or being thrown out from their
homes in massive quantities to foreign refugee camps
since 1948 to make way for ISRAEL.
. 70, 000 people were being killed in Lebanon, which
include Palestinian refugees and Lebanese Moslems,
both Sunnis and Shiites, and others dropped out
from school to find work abroad. Fault of the Israeli
military whose occupation lasted from 1975 to 2000.

No one in this world has the rights to criticize anyone for converting, not even the British, because there are so many reasons why people do so. E.g. looking in the Bible, Ahmad Deedat of South Africa and some European researchers curiously discovered no less than 60000 errors. E.g. the Christians say that Jesus is a Son of God. But to look carefully, this originated from the Hebrew expression of, "A Godly person." And if Jesus was the Son of God, explain this:

"God said to me [Abraham], 'Thou art my son. This day
Have I begotten thee'."

OR

"The Sons of God walked with the daughters of men."

Looking in the Koran, it offered that the sun revolves, which NASA said NO until their great breakthrough in the National Geographic Magazine, January 1994. The word HADIYAH - meaning "Iron" - is being mentioned in the Koran "TWENTY-SIX TIMES". This is according to a British Moslem documentary. If we look into the Periodic Table, iron's atomic number is 26. God said in the Koran, "I created the heavens in seven layers". Scientists analyzed the Earth's atmosphere and discovered that it is made up of seven layers, which includes the ozone layer that filters the sun's ultraviolet rays. Many people converted to Islam because of their taste of physical evidence while Moslems remain Moslems because of their faith - no demands for physical facts of what the Koran says.
If you are a Christian, you can get "The Bible the Qur'an and Science" to learn more or go to Google.com and type in the text bar "Bible Qur'an Science". But make sure the author's name MAURICE shows. Maurice was a French science who developed his roadmap to Islam through the studies of Islam and Science.
No one needs to convert to Islam if the journey is too painful, but just in case, "I NEVER did say you should convert." Al-salamu alaykum - i.e. Peace be with you.

[lool]

hi all ....

First I like to thank the writer of this paragraph ( or what ever it is ) ..

and I want to thank every one replayed this thread .. and hope you benifit from this informations ..



arabic is hard, well the alphabet is at least, once you learn the alphabet im sure its not THAT hard, dam means blood, thats about all i know,

Yes (Dam) means (Blood) in arabic .. that's righte ... :cool:

and I am agree with your point that the alphabit of hiragana and katagana are harder than the alphabit of the arabic language ..

becouse in hiragana you have 5 of ( k ) : ( ka , ku , ki , ke , ko )

but in arabic you have one (k) called ( KAF ) and with some punctuation you can make it ( ka , ko , ke ) or with putting another letter like (a) >>> ( alef ) or (o)>> ( waw ) or ( i,y)>>> ( ya ) you can make it ( kaa , koo , kee ) and as that you can do with 27 letter else :
1-( alef ) >> ( a)
2-( ba )>> (b,p)
3-( ta ) >> (t )
4-( tha ) >> ( th )
5-( jeem ) >> ( g,j )
6-( hhaa ) >> there's no letter like it in english or in hiragana and katakana .
7-( khaa ) >> there's no letter like it in english or in hiragana and katakana .
8-( dal ) >> ( d )
9-( thal ) >> as you say ( the )
10-( ra ) >> (r)
11-(zeen) >> (z)
12-( seen ) >> (s,c)
13-( sheen ) >> ( sh )
14( saad ) >> as the last of ( else )
15-( dhad ) >> this letter the only arabic one can say it .. no one else in the word can write it in any language or say it in any language exept the arabic .. some arabs cant say it correctly but they'll can if they try .. the arabic language called also as ( the dhaad langusage ) ..
16-(ta) >> it's hard to translate it in english .. its like ( t ) but stronger .
17-(tha) >> it's hard to translate it in english .. its like ( the ) but stronger .
18-( een ) >>> its also hard to translate .
19- ( gheen ) >> its also hard to translate .
20- ( fa ) >> ( f,ph )
21- (qaaf ) >> ( stronger than q )
22- ( kaaf ) >> ( k,c,q)
23-( lam ) >> (l)
24-( meem ) >> ( m )
25-(noonn)>> (n )
26-(ha )>> (h)
27-(waw) >> ( w )
28-( yaa ) >> ( i,y)

and thats all :o ... It's easy to laern arabic .. but it's hard to learn the real arabic .. the real grammar of arabic .. it's hard for us also ( the arabians ) to learn the real arabic .. but nothing hard with work ...

note : the (( alphabit )) word came from ( alef,baa,taa ) the first three letters in arabic alphabits .. and that what I think ...:note:


The word HADIYAH - meaning "Iron"
mmmmm .. the word ( HADIYAH ) means ( gift or present )

( iron ) in arabic is ( HADID or HADEED )>> (6,8,28,8 ) #is the arabic alphabit

and ( hadeed ) mentioned in the ( holy Quran ) 26 times not ( hadiyah )

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

about the islam in japan .. and some who said it's hard for the japanese to stop of their families practices and behaviors ..

in the reality .. if you understand the real broplem betewen the ( Islam ) and the other religiouns specially ( christians, juses and the arabs before islam ) you can know that they won't or wouldn't follow islam becouse of their families behaviour and relegious .. but islam reached all the arab world ( mideast ) and now it reached china and japan .. fromm the east .. south and north amirica from the west .. russia and the others from the north .. south africa , malysia , indonisia and ostoralia from the south of world map .. its started from the midlle of the map in ( saudi arabia >> MAKKAH ) and reached the all world ..

so I think the islamic future in japan will be from better to the best ..

the government of japan have nothing to do for muslims or the islam in japan .. just give them freedom and let them lieve as the others ...

( sorry about my bad english ):bluush: :p :bow:

[MtoM]

thank you drag_lp3 alot
===

yes that's right arabic is a hard language i can say it's the hardest language to learn :its sounds are very difficult ,the garammers are tricky and wide sooooo wide
in the other hand, you can make your self good in it easly by living in an arabic country you can anderstand and be anderstood.
===========================================
yeah about japanese muslims...
Do you know anyone????
Please let me know soon

Mata Ja

[Abdullah72]

Hi,
For anybody interested in islam go to this site also in japanese
www.islam-guide.com
Write me to this e mail if you have anycoments:
jasmingutierrez@yahoo.com
Thanks

[thereisnospoon]

Interesting article, I am fairly fluent in Arabic, having spent a couple of years in Jordan and Egypt, I found the Arabic alphabet fairly easy to learn, lets hope I can learn the japanese as well. lol

[AranzA]

It's not about they're not interested in Islam, they know almost nothing.. I read an article about a Chinese lady who converted to Islam, she said that most ppl in China know little stuff about Islam, so she made negative judgment about the whole thing. However, when she joined a university in a foreign country, she got the chance to learn Arabic and learn more about Islam.. Besides, she met good Muslims who made her more interested in this religion.

I like reading about different religions. It’s so interesting ^_^

[AranzA]

Originally posted by philupthetank86
arabic is hard, well the alphabet is at least, once you learn the alphabet im sure its not THAT hard, dam means blood, thats about all i know,


loool,, philupthetank86.. is this the only word you can memorize?

Jenn = Ghosts
saffah = butcher
Harami = thief

:p :p :p :p

Anyway, Muslims can pray in their own languages,, Praying in Arabic is not obligated at all ^_^

[SuSu]

Hi everybody. :wave:
First of all, I want to thank the writer, it's a very nice article. Actually, I was looking for such a subject.
Well, I have a question:
Do you know where I can find Japanese Muslims and contact them, I mean websites or forums, if anyone has an idea, plz, let e know. Even if they are not Japanese, it's not a problem, let me know.
I'm very interested in learning the Japanese language, though I know nothing about it. :o lol. By the way, if anybody is interested in learning Arabic, I can help. ;)

Thanks everyone
:) Salam

[Farmad]

For ahkam, fikh and tasavvuf information...

Based on profound Ahl as Sunnah scholars' books.


http://www.hizmetbooks.org

http://www.hakikatkitabevi.com

[uygurlar]

I don't know about Japan, but there are 80 million Muslims in China. Islam has a longer tradition in China.

[AranzA]

80 million?? wow,, I haven't heard about this before,,

[Ash_s]

hi all i'm a muslim and i speak arabic so if any one wants help in arabic or islam just senf me an e-mail herer majhol2004@yahoo.com
and about my self i want to learn japanese i hope i can find people to help

[Hachiko]

Thomas and others, a curious question: has there been a section in the Japanese constitution that encourages religious freedom? If that's the case, I don't see why Islam shouldn't be embraced in Japan.

[Mandylion]

Hachiko - You are correct, the consitution does cover that. The question is more of a cultural one and how Japan views religion when thinking about if Islam can make it in Japan. The challenges are not only for Japanese people to adapt to Islam, but Islam to adapt to Japan. Traditions with a strong sense of mono-ness (one god, one way, one anything to the detractment of dualism) have had to soften their tone to keep even the smallest of toe-holds in Japan. This goes for New Religions (Tenrikyo, Nichiren, etc.) that have far more Japanese elements in their practice as well. Part of the reason sects like Tenrikyo have done so well is flexibility. An example;

Obon rites (Buddhist ancestor veneration rites) occur in Japan in the middle of August. Tenrikyo, a Buddhist/Shinto/founders ideas mix, New Religion does not endorse such practices. Still, I have met Tenrikyo priests who are willing to perform Buddhist obon rites (for a family member who was not Tenrikyo) if asked by followers.

Whould Islamic leaders, cut of the cloth who want to come to Japan and spread the faith, be comfortable performing or allowing the practice of rites like ancestor veneration? I don't claim to know. The Christian ministers I know just turn a bind eye to such practices. The ones who activly discourage such practices have very, very few members in church.

I'm not saying Islam shouldn't be introduced to Japan. I'm just saying it would be a big challenge.

[MtoM]

Try these two sites

Holy Quran : http://www.isuramu.net/kuruan/index.html

http://www.isuramu.net/index.html

[aliG]

Im not sure why people automatically think ARAB when they think Islam. Need I make it clear that there are Christian arabs, Jewish Arabs as well. But to clearify the point, Im pakistani and I dont speak a dam sentence of Arabic, yet I am muslim. Its like the stupidest thing I ever heard.

[Eternal Wind]

different ppl have their own rights in chosing what they believe and i think that there is nothing wrong with it.

[aliG]

Originally posted by Eternal Wind
different ppl have their own rights in chosing what they believe and i think that there is nothing wrong with it.

i understand, but they need to watch out when they say something like that in public. this is sheer ignorance. its like me thanking a VIETNAMESE by saying SHESHENI (in chinese).

[Hachiko]

i understand, but they need to watch out when they say something like that in public. this is sheer ignorance. its like me thanking a VIETNAMESE by saying SHESHENI (in chinese).

Some Vietnamese may take it as ignorance. Others will take it as an accident, and say the correct term for "thank you." Regardless of ethnicity, it depends on how the person views it.

[Eternal Wind]

yes,indeed.So to the point is that whichever country we visit,we must really watch out for what we are saying,cause there's a saying in chinese called"trouble always comes out from the mouth",so beware...

[Hachiko]

yes,indeed.So to the point is that whichever country we visit,we must really watch out for what we are saying,cause there's a saying in chinese called"troubles always comes out from the mouth",so beware...

Point well taken.

[Malayboy]

Too little muslim in Japan, but we are in malaysia, islam is a major religion..I dunno how far muslim in japan life goes. how good is it? Junichiro koizumi should built more mosque for muslim, like us in Malaysia, no one can stop u from believe in any religion... :wave: Any one wanna know bout me in malaysia pls message me...

[Mandylion]

The Japanese government should not build a mosque unless it also plans to build a religious building for every other denomination on the globe. I believe religion should be a private affair - religion and politics and not very good bedfellows.

[DaMo]

The Japanese government should not build a mosque unless it also plans to build a religious building for every other denomination on the globe. I believe religion should be a private affair - religion and politics and not very good bedfellows.
My sentiments exactly. :cool:

But you're going to have to break the news delicately to the many officially Muslim countries in the Middle East.

I strongly oppose people who think that promotion of overtly religious beliefs or provision of religious facilities and buildings is the government's job. :okashii:
I am even more strongly opposed to "religious law" of any form.

[Farmad]

Islam is the way and rules which Allâhu ta’âlâ sent to His beloved Prophet Hadrat Muhammad through an angel named Jabrâil. Islam will make people comfortable and happy in this world and the next. Everything superior and useful is within Islam. Islam has gathered within itself all the visible and invisible excellences of the past sharî’ats. All sorts of happiness and success are within it. It consists of that which is essential and moral to unerring, unfailing minds.

People with faultless creation will not refuse or hate it. There is no harm in Islam. There is no benefit outside of Islam, nor can there be any. To think of any benefit outside of Islam would mean to expect wine from a mirage. The Sharî’at commands us to improve countries and promote people, to love and help one another and to live in brotherhood, and asks us to respect the commandments of Allâhu ta’âlâ and pity creatures, to love the land and the flag of the native land, to obey the laws, and to pay taxes honestly and in time. It bears responsibility towards every creature. It provides for the purification of the nafs, and distinguishes bad habits from good ones. It commands us to have good habits, and severely refuses and prohibits bad habits. It commands us to get on well with non-Muslim citizens, owners of bid’at and those who follow different madhhabs, and it commands chastity and modesty in every respect. It forces us to be completely healthy. It refuses and prohibits laziness and wasting time. It absolutely commands agriculture, trade and arts. It attaches due importance to knowledge, science, techniques and industry. It asks men to help and serve one another mutually. It forces us to protect the lives, property and chastities of those in other religions, sects and faiths, and severely prohibits to attack them or to form organizations that interfere with politics and state affairs. It teaches us the rights of individuals, children, families and peoples, and it observes a right and responsibility towards the living, the dead and the coming generations, towards everybody. It is Sa’âdat-i dârayn, that is, it includes the happiness of this world and the next.

Other religions are not so. All other religions have been defiled, and ideas and thoughts issuing from the human mind have taken the place of divine rules. For this reason, they have never been lâyataghayyar and have remained only as forms and dead words over against an ever-improving and changing life. Allâhu ta’âlâ has based the Islamic dîn upon principles that will provide improvements to address the progress of life and life’s ever-changing needs.


http://www.hakikatkitabevi.com/english/english.htm

[sayuri]

I'm pretty sure Indonesia (i'm not a 100% sure though, if it's not Indonesia it's one them countries around Indonesia) has the biggest muslim community in the world...there are also muslims in Thailand and lots of them in other Asian countries (like someone highlighted it, there are lots of them in China). There are none (or very few) in Japan (to my knowledge - but hey...what do I know i've never been there :p)...

As for the arabic language i think it's a REALLY EASY language to learn, i don't find the grammar difficult at all, there aren't lots of different tenses, once you know how to read it's all good. As for the pronounciation, i'll let you off for this one :p, but the only letters that "could" be difficult to pronounce
would be : ha ح , sad ص , thad ض , kaf ق , tha ظ , and rhain ع . That's about it....anyone interested in learning japanese AND arabic?

[Mandylion]

There is no benefit outside of Islam, nor can there be any. To think of any benefit outside of Islam would mean to expect wine from a mirage.

I'm sorry, you lost me after that point. I'm afraid a fair percent of the world would respectfully disagree with you. Islam may give you what you need from life, but other paths supply what others need. If the truth was so universal as to be understood by all, wouldn't there be only one faith?

[elwing]

First of all.. Im a non-believer. I dont belong to any religion, so dont think that im saying all this just cause my religion is way better than the others.

I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan. One of the main reasons to why i like Japan so much is cause its a almost 100% buddhist country. I really think that buddhism is the friendliest religion in the world. I really like it.. In fact, Buhddism is the only religion that i like.

Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)
..ya, maybe im generalising a little bit, but you see my point right?..

The usa vs iraq conflict is now all about islam vs christians, it was not like that from the start but it is now.
Imo, both the US goverment and the muslims should take a good look on buddhism, they could learn alot.

And I don't like how muslims thinks that people from other religions with diferent beliefs are wrong, dirty or missguided and calling them stuff like INFIDELS!
Everything superior and useful is within Islam.
People with faultless creation will not refuse or hate it. There is no harm in Islam. There is no benefit outside of Islam, nor can there be any. To think of any benefit outside of Islam would mean to expect wine from a mirage.
See what I mean?? ¬¬

Im glad that Japan holds on to their religions and customs and i hope that they continue to do so.

[z4k1y]

Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)


You may check what a japanese woman said about that, if you are interested in it just go to :

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?page=1&articleid=43

and the rests are about wrong opinions about Islam

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=24

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=25

or you may browse the site by yourself if you need more,
by the way have a nice day...

[DaMo]

I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.
Such religious totalitarianism should be left to the Saudis and their fanatic Wahhabi cohorts. I am in favor of religious liberty for all, although I agree with your sentiment that ...

Im glad that Japan holds on to their religions and customs and i hope that they continue to do so.
So do I. :cool:

[AranzA]

I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.

I reckon that mosques or churches should be held side by side as a demostration of peace between religions.

Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)

Don’t be shallow,, the number of Muslims around the world exceeds billions, and logically,, a small number of lunatics, to whom the media enjoys talking about, don’t represent the remaining Muslims. Many innocents have been cruelly killed by those gangs, which is totally forbidden in Islam. A person who interacts with REAL Muslims would understand what I’m saying. What can you do about few fanatics who misinterpret things and let others pay?

Furthermore, when Kosovo ppl were inhumanly assassinated by Serbian, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism at that time,, and when Jews had been cruelly killed by German, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism.. The point is Whether we like it or not,, fanaticism and terrorism are everywhere and before Bin Laden’s gang exists ;)

What a FEW Muslims do is really shamful, but we should be fair when we talk about specific religion. Many Muslims are great and super friendly,, Anyway,, I don't like talking about religion things,,

What do you mean by this: And I really dont like their views on females.)

[DoctorNO]

Greetings! :haihai:


[B]Don’t be shallow,, the number of Muslims around the world exceeds billions, and logically,, a small number of lunatics, to whom the media enjoys talking about, don’t represent the remaining Muslims.

Approximately 1.3 billion muslims. Most of these are fundamentalists. But only a small fraction are violent extremists. However these extremists permeate the whole like holes in a sponge. Which is why there is trouble almost everywhere where there are muslims.


Many innocents have been cruelly killed by those gangs, which is totally forbidden in Islam.

Depends on the cause. Muslims are allowed to kill if it is for revenge for a PERCIEVED injustice or oppression.



Furthermore, when Kosovo ppl were inhumanly assassinated by Serbian, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism at that time,, and when Jews had been cruelly killed by German, nobody linked Christianity with terrorism..

Because religion was not involved with the killings. Can you site an example wherein a christian quotes the bible while killing another person?

---------------------------------- :blush:

Dear drag ,


Looking in the Koran, it offered that the sun revolves,

Every caveman could see with their bare eyes that the sun appears to revolve...around the earth that is. That was the general belief in the dark ages.


The word HADIYAH - meaning "Iron" - is being mentioned in the Koran "TWENTY-SIX TIMES". This is according to a British Moslem documentary. If we look into the Periodic Table, iron's atomic number is 26.

Coincidence plain and simple. Other metals are mentioned in the quran too like Gold & Iron. And their frequency of usage does not equate to any figure in the Periodic Table.


God said in the Koran, "I created the heavens in seven layers". Scientists analyzed the Earth's atmosphere and discovered that it is made up of seven layers, which includes the ozone layer that filters the sun's ultraviolet rays.

Take a look at this...

Quran 041.012 (YUSUFALI translation)

"So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge"


Do you still think that the quran was referring to the 7 layers of the atmosphere? If you do then please tell us which LOWER layer are adorned with lights.



Many people converted to Islam because of their taste of physical evidence

Then those people have been mistaken in the physical evidences presented to them. For I have deeply examined these so called evidences and they are all flawed. As I have shown you above.

Peace. :cool:

----------------------------- :blush:

Hello Eternal Wind

different ppl have their own rights in chosing what they believe and i think that there is nothing wrong with it.

One of the tricky issues with Islam is that its so easy to get in and its very difficult to get out. Especially if you live in a muslim country or if your parents are muslims. In many cases the price for leaving Islam would be a death sentence or disownment by muslim family members & friends.

For people considering to convert to Islam I suggest you look at both sides of the coin. Listen to both the people promoting the religion and the people who are against it.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm

[AranzA]

@ DoctorNO

I'm sorry to disappoint you , but the link you pasted is a bullsh*t. The content is really silly and it's obvious that the author(s) aimed to distort the real image of Islam. Everything is awfully written. It's all WRONG. I really was trying to find anything correct concerning Islam in that site, but I failed to do so. Even the Holy Quran is awfully mistranslated. I have read the Quran all my life and I know what I’m talking about It's funny that you believe whatever you read.. Any person can write any nonsense and make a website.. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct. That's why we have brains to use,, you may read many different sources before making judgments. You may check out the following websites:


http://www.islamworld.net/

http://www.understanding-islam.com/

[Please type terrorism in the empty box in the front page and check out the results :) You and others may post any question too]


http://www.islam-guide.com/
[this site might not be well designed, but it comprises well written content.]


There are loads of websites in the net, I chose those for coz of the lack of my time..


You may contact me, as well, at any time, be_mine3775@yahoo.com, and I'll be pleased to answer your questions and provide you, or anyone else, with the CORRECT and the TRUSTED answers..

It's true that some Muslims misinterpret Islam's values; they even hurt other Muslims like what happened recently in Saudi Arabia. But remember Muslims these days are not like Muslims before thousands years ago.

*sigh* I’m so sorry to be a little bit rude, but the website made me angry and I feel really sad when some ppl might think the way that you or others do. This is not supposed to happening.. Islam is Great and I’m proud to be a Muslim. Simultaneously, I’m terribly ashamed of those fake, stupid Muslims who try to ruin Islam’s pure values..

I hope my English to be better than that.. :relief:

Peace..

[DoctorNO]

@ DoctorNO

I'm sorry to disappoint you , but the link you pasted is a bullsh*t. The content is really silly and it's obvious that the author(s) aimed to distort the real image of Islam. Everything is awfully written. It's all WRONG. I really was trying to find anything correct concerning Islam in that site, but I failed to do so.

The real image of Islam today is not a very good sight. I am not surprised that you failed to find anything correct in that website for as a religious individual your mind has been conditioned to see nothing but wrong in anything that criticizes your spiritual beliefs. Right? But I wont be surprised either if you fail to prove that assertion. Talk is cheap my friend. Let’s see if you are right in your assertion:


http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
Why Mohammed was not a prophet:

Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children.

He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia.

Those are according to historical records. Are you going to deny them? Tell me “yes” or “no”. If you answered anything by “no” then it would be safe to assume that you meant “yes” and I would prove you wrong by posting the historical Islamic sources for those statements.


http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
Why Quran is not from God:

Muhammad produced no miracles and when pressed he claimed that his miracle is the Quran. Yet a cursory look at the Quran reveals that this book is full of errors. Quran is replete with scientific heresies, historic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical absurdities, grammatical errors and ethical fallacies.

The first statement alone was true and I doubt you would openly deny it. The rest I can discuss with you if you want and let the readers here decide who makes better sense between the two of us.

Even the Holy Quran is awfully mistranslated.

Awfully mistranslated? Have you even bothered to see who translated those? Here is the very first verse mentioned in that site:

Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

It was translated by the famous Muslim Scholar SHAKIR whose work is being used by millions of western muslims. His translation was on equal terms with Yusufali & Pickthal. Look here http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034



I have read the Quran all my life and I know what I’m talking about

Not necessarily. You have been reading the Quran with the assumption that it came from God. Therefore your views are already biased. You may be wrong without realizing it.


It's funny that you believe whatever you read.

Doesn’t that apply to you more than it does to any of us? You believe whatever you read in the quran. And then you are quick to blame me without any justification.


Any person can write any nonsense and make a website.. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct. That's why we have brains to use,, you may read many different sources before making judgments.

That applies to religion as well. Any person can write any nonsense and make it a religion. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct.


You may check out the following websites:


http://www.islamworld.net/

http://www.understanding-islam.com/

http://www.islam-guide.com/


Those websites are like used-car-salesmen. They are telling you the things you want to hear just to sell you Islam. Which is why I advised the readers to listen to both sides of an issue. Listen to the good things and listen to the bad things. The best source for the bad things in Islam are from those who are FORMER MUSLIMS.

www.apostatesofislam.com

www.faithfreedom.org



You may contact me, as well, at any time, be_mine3775@yahoo.com, and I'll be pleased to answer your questions and provide you, or anyone else, with the CORRECT and the TRUSTED answers..

What you trust is not necessarily correct. Test your knowledge and reasoning against mine and let the readers decide. Lets do our discussion right here. :)


It's true that some Muslims misinterpret Islam's values; they even hurt other Muslims like what happened recently in Saudi Arabia. But remember Muslims these days are not like Muslims before thousands years ago.

Muslims thousands of years ago massacred and assassinated each other just the same. Three of your first four Caliphs, companions of Mohammed himself, has been slaughtered in cold blood. The kaabah was destroyed and rebuilt. The ummah in spain fell because of internal strife.


*sigh* I’m so sorry to be a little bit rude, but the website made me angry and I feel really sad when some ppl might think the way that you or others do.

I understand. But you will not be able to think clearly if you let your emotions get the best of you.


This is not supposed to happening.. Islam is Great and I’m proud to be a Muslim. Simultaneously, I’m terribly ashamed of those fake, stupid Muslims who try to ruin Islam’s pure values..

What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?


I hope my English to be better than that..

Your English is very good my friend. :wave:

[Ash_s]

hi all my name is ashraf and i'm from palestine, my religion is islam and her i want to put some commets at the member elwing words and to give the islamic point of view about what he said.

I don't think that there should be any mosques or churches in Japan.

from this i understand that you don't respect other religions, or you don't like differnces on this earth and how could life be if people don't listen to other point of views.

Christians = "They bring the war"
Muslims = "They bring the terrorism" (And I really dont like their views on females.)

war and terrorism have reasons you might be able to see these them or you might not, and i'm telling you 99% of these reasons are unknown. but media the greater black magician at this age can effect people by making the right wrong and the wrong right.

Imo, both the US goverment and the muslims should take a good look on buddhism, they could learn alot.

i don't know about christianity, but about islam if there is any good thing that might be useful in any othe religion or culture sure there is no doubt to take it. and here i say what the quran says in al-zumar chapter: (Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding). translation of Yusuf Ali's.

And I don't like how muslims thinks that people from other religions with diferent beliefs are wrong, dirty or missguided and calling them stuff like INFIDELS!

be sure the right has one face and the wrong has thousands of faces. then muslims doesn't say they dirty about other people and cultures (where did you get this from?! :? ). and they call them INFIDELS because if you received the message of islam, understood it and didn't belive it that means you have choosen the wrong side insted of the right one and it is true then to give you the name INFIDEL.
if you think this isn't right a small example might help you to understand.
imagine you are a student in some schools, and the teacher told you to do some homework, but you didn't do it. now if the teacher put your name in the list with students who didn't do the homework, now will that be right or wrong? equal or not?

[DoctorNO]

be sure the right has one face and the wrong has thousands of faces. then muslims doesn't say they dirty about other people and cultures (where did you get this from?! :? ). and they call them INFIDELS because if you received the message of islam, understood it and didn't belive it that means you have choosen the wrong side insted of the right one and it is true then to give you the name INFIDEL.

By your logic it is perfectly ok to give you the name STUPID FOOL because you have recieved our message concerning the falsehood of islam and didnt believe it.

Remember the golden rule: Dont do unto others what you dont want others to do unto you. :p

[Ash_s]

it is not strange to hear this from agnostic thinker. but at least i understand what i'm saying about faces. and i don't think you got the ideam because if you did you would understand that there is one right and the other is wrong . and sure the one whose right will have proves with him.

[DoctorNO]

it is not strange to hear this from agnostic thinker. but at least i understand what i'm saying about faces. and i don't think you got the ideam because if you did you would understand that there is one right and the other is wrong .

You forgot the other possibility...

EVERYONE IS WRONG or UNCERTAIN.

Why should anyone believe Islam?

* It gives us nothing new.
* It contains as much weight in evil as good.
* It fails to prove the existence of God.
* It fails to prove that it came from God.
* It fails to produce a good society. No islamic society in all history could even come close to the glory & honor of Japan today. Japan that is populated by people that you muslims call INFIDELS.



and sure the one whose right will have proves with him.

Unfortunately no muslim is able to prove anything. The islamic view is nothing but wishful thinking. Which in reality is more harmful than beneficial. Muslims rebel and divide nations. After they succeed they create a state that is even worst. Like in the case of India.

[Ash_s]

it seems that you like to quote alot, don't believe in every word i say, and want others to track every word you say to prove it is wrong in reality and in their believe. but at least i know you want proves that you can see or hear to believe that this thing is right or wrong. you need to see an apple in front of your eyes to belive it is existed there, eat it and forget about the tree that gave it to you. means you need to hear the God or see him by your eyes to believe in him, yes thats how it goes with you, and if i'm wrong then explain your point view and your believes about this life that might help others to know you better. not to keep quoting from this and that without knowledge.
let me show you how many mistakes you made by your opinions and facts. i will not start from the begining in the top, but from the last replay you did.
you say:
''You forgot the other possibility...
EVERYONE IS WRONG & UNCERTAIN''
here you are right if there is'nt any prove about something, so you don't need any microscope to prove it is in front of you. you say this to anyone whose lost don't know the right from the wrong.

you say: " It gives us nothing new"
you are here might be talking about particular things that doesn't change in islam as believes -and did a god send his religion to change it from time to time?!!!- and if you are talking about knowledge then the first word came down from god to muhammed (pbuh) is "read". and islam is the first religion who encourages his followers to seek knowledge and science. and if you don't know about history remember the greatest two civilizations on earth in the 1500, you may make a search online to see which ones they are. while europe was sleeping in dark ages or medieval (i think they called them like this), sure this isn't right at this time because of divisions, borders and bad leaders, but if they were one nation in one land and under one leader, without doubt the will be greater that western civilization in their knowledge and morals. if you have rally deep thinking as you call yourself (thinker) you will know:
a nation woithout morals will not live a long
a nation with morals without out science and tech is sick
a nation wothout both is dead.
this is just the first point you claimed it to be right. and i will come soon to show you how you write things you don't really know anything about.

[DoctorNO]

you need to see an apple in front of your eyes to belive it is existed there, eat it and forget about the tree that gave it to you. means you need to hear the God or see him by your eyes to believe in him, yes thats how it goes with you, and if i'm wrong then explain your point view and your believes about this life that might help others to know you better.

In order to believe in something one or both conditions must be met.

1. The object must be detectable by one of the five senses: Sight, Sound, Smell, Taste or Touch.

Or

2. The object or idea must be logically conclusive beyond the shadow of a doubt. For example I believe that AxB=6 because A=2 & B=3 and 2+2+2=6.

I am an agnostic. Im not saying that there is a God or that there is NO GOD. Regarding that issue we agnostics proudly say WE DON’T KNOW. We just enjoy our lives and try to make the most out of it. I live an honest, just, & compassionate life because I enjoy living that way. If there is a good god out there im sure he would credit me for living an honorable life.


not to keep quoting from this and that without knowledge.

I make sure that my knowledge is sufficient before arguing with anybody.


let me show you how many mistakes you made by your opinions and facts. i will not start from the begining in the top, but from the last replay you did.
you say:
''You forgot the other possibility...
EVERYONE IS WRONG & UNCERTAIN''
here you are right if there is'nt any prove about something, so you don't need any microscope to prove it is in front of you. you say this to anyone whose lost don't know the right from the wrong.

I said “or”, not “and”. There is a difference. Anyway what I say applies to everyone who cant prove that their religion came from God. Whether Buddhists, Christians or Muslims. Each of them are truly uncertain and could be very much mistaken.


you say: " It gives us nothing new"
you are here might be talking about particular things that doesn't change in islam as believes -and did a god send his religion to change it from time to time?!!!- and if you are talking about knowledge then the first word came down from god to muhammed (pbuh) is "read". and islam is the first religion who encourages his followers to seek knowledge and science.

Wrong. Judaism has given that advise 1000 years before the birth of mohammed. Read…

Proverbs 23:12
Commit yourself to instruction; attune your ears to hear words of knowledge. :bravo:

Proverbs 8:10
"Choose my instruction rather than silver, and knowledge over pure gold. :bravo:

Proverbs 8:12
"I, Wisdom, live together with good judgment. I know where to discover knowledge and discernment.

Proverbs 10:14
Wise people treasure knowledge, but the babbling of a fool invites trouble.

As I said there is nothing new in Islam. Admit it, you have been sadly mistaken. :cool:


and if you don't know about history remember the greatest two civilizations on earth in the 1500, you may make a search online to see which ones they are. while europe was sleeping in dark ages or medieval (i think they called them like this), sure this isn't right at this time because of divisions, borders and bad leaders, but if they were one nation in one land and under one leader, without doubt the will be greater that western civilization in their knowledge and morals.

Islamic golden age owe its success to the Jews & Christians among their midst. But mostly from the Jews who knew how to govern people. Muslim Spain started to collapse when it started to persecute its jewish populace.


if you have rally deep thinking as you call yourself (thinker) you will know:
a nation woithout morals will not live a long
a nation with morals without out science and tech is sick
a nation wothout both is dead.
this is just the first point you claimed it to be right. and i will come soon to show you how you write things you don't really know anything about.

What is your point. Japan has far more morals and science than any Islamic nation on earth. Japan doesn’t need Islam. :p

[Ash_s]

i'm still not going to skip the question. you said:
"It contains as much weight in evil as good"
when you hear news on T.V., read newspaper, or listen to radio you will hear muslims killed a man, muslims destroyed this and that, muslims are violents and things like this, and usually media doesn't give except the the bad image of islam (as they like to call it), forget to give reasons and what the other side is doing, by other words:
if a modrenized country killed a muslim, then it's ok nobody give any attention.
when a muslim kills modernized peron or people, oh it's a barbaric thing it is not acceptable everywhere. the next day media will put this news in the begining, and not to forget to link it to islam whatever it was right or wrong.
the best example for this is what happened in 9/11 when all the world heard about athe attack in newyork, i think about 2900 people were killed there. this thing is even forbidden and it is a sin to do it in islam, we everyday hear this and that linking it to islam, just because a group call themselves muslims did it. and now i'm asking you did you know how many iraqis killed in america's war there? or how many plastinians and is, maybe few people heard that more than 20,000 iraqis were killed, most of them are innocent people women, elder, even childs. another example is palestine, 3,000 palestinians were killed then they call resistance men terrorists. did the world know about this thing? or the black magic closed both their eyes and minds. that shows there is no justice in this world and we don't expect to see it from any human, that doesn't accept but just from God. did any country in the united nations said anything about this, then they are partners in these kinds of crimes and really time went as the strong lives and the weak dies.

when you hear about these things that muslims did, you first must know first what islam says at this point, second if they were really muslims you should know why?

and with few words about your last comments.
you gave 2 major ways how to believe in something. and i say islam has both ways to give you proves.
you said: "I said “or” not “and”. " in this i maybe made a mistake, but i always read this (&) as an and.
you are right about this "Anyway what I say applies to everyone who cant prove that their religion came from God"
and by logic God can't send a religion without prove, otherwise how people will believe.
i'm wrong to say this "islam is the first religion who encourages his followers to seek knowledge and science" if it depends on time of words, but we should know who taught europe the knowledge of science, chemistry, math and geography. the religion is not just a word, but it is work too.

then you say: "Islamic golden age owe its success to the Jews & Christians" and i wonder why should it, did jews and christians share muslims in ruling the land? or taught them how to? if you have anything about it say it.

at last "we agnostics proudly say WE DON’T KNOW" and you really want to enjoy this and having good characteristics(honest, just, & compassionate) then you expect if there is a God to credit you for your characteristics, without asking yourself if there is a God why he created me, put me there and did he leave me alone without sending anything to me (whatever was the way).
my friend you just want to take not to give.

[Mandylion]

Persuant to the fourth section of the Forum Rules (http://www.jref.com/forum/rules.php), please bring this thread back around to address Islam in Japan, not Islam in general, or this thread will be locked.

[AranzA]

Finally I got some time to reply to your post. I barely have time to scratch my head. This post as you see is very long, so if you are going to read it from the monitor, don’t forget to blink :)


The real image of Islam today is not a very good sight. I am not surprised that you failed to find anything correct in that website for as a religious individual your mind has been conditioned to see nothing but wrong in anything that criticizes your spiritual beliefs. Right? But I wont be surprised either if you fail to prove that assertion. Talk is cheap my friend. Let’s see if you are right in your assertion:


Why Mohammed was not a prophet:

Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children.

He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia.
[/list]
Those are according to historical records. Are you going to deny them? Tell me “yes” or “no”. If you answered anything by “no” then it would be safe to assume that you meant “yes” and I would prove you wrong by posting the historical Islamic sources for those statements.
----------------------

Are you expecting from the billion of Muslims either now or who lived before thousand of years ago to follow someone is cruel like what you just described? Do you think I would like to follow and believe someone like that? Of course NOT. What historical evidence do you have? How come Muslims before thousands of years ago and the non believers who converted to Islam had no idea about your evidence. Are you saying that the holy Qur’aan which was exist before thousands of years ago, Sunna and Seera (biography), which was written by the ppl who lived with the Prophet Mohammed and recorded his behavors and sayings are all wrong? You may post whatever you want and I may disapprove them as well ;)


Islam and Slavery:

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/3.htm#r1

Few Evidence from Qur'aan:

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)

5:89 Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a Slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.


Al-Mujadilah (The Disputation)


58:3 But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered,- (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
------------------------------


http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm
[i]Why Quran is not from God:

Muhammad produced no miracles and when pressed he claimed that his miracle is the Quran. Yet a cursory look at the Quran reveals that this book is full of errors. Quran is replete with scientific heresies, historic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical absurdities, grammatical errors and ethical fallacies.


http://www.answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/proofs.html

You know that the prophet Mohammed was Illiterate. How could he write an entire book, Qur'aan which has no grammatical errors. Notice that Arabs were famous for their good style of writing and they even couldn't write similar verses like the ones in the Qur'aan. Besides, there are many miracles have been witnessed by audince such as the moon split. What about his ascent to heaven, was from Masjid al-Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, in other words from Mecca to Jerusalem. When non believers asked him to describe al Aqsa mosque to believe him, how could the Prophet exactly explain the place in details? I dare you find one error in the Qur'aan.


Beating Women in Islam:

One of the most controversial issues in Islam is the Qur’aan’s authorization for husbands to beat disobedient wives. This is found in Chapter4, called “Women”, verse 34. Note that wife beating is not in the Islamic society, it is a common occurrence throughout the entire world. Some cultures accept it more readily than others. However, Islam accepts the practice to an extent that Muslim societies do not see it as a problem.

I’ll illustrate two translations of the verse 34. There are many translations, but I chose those two [notice that I have carefully chosen translations that match the original source] :

[1]
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, an because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part your fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them ( lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).”

[2]
“Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.”

Analysis:

It’s mentioned above that the beating should be light. You might say beating in general is supposed to be painful, otherwise it won’t be called beating. Plz read the following:

The Qur’aan lists a progression of steps to be used in dealing with a rebellious wife:

[A] Admonition and advice, by explaining the unlawfulness of rebellion, its harmful effect on married life, and by listening to her viewpoint on the matter.

If admonition is ineffectual, he keeps from her by not sleeping in bed with her, by which both learn the degree to which they need each other.

[C] If keeping from her is ineffectual, it is permissible for him to hit her if he believes that hitting her will bring her back to permissible. His hitting her may not be in a way that injures her, and is his last resource to save the family.

[D] If the disagreement does not end after all this, each partner chooses an arbitrator to solve the dispute by settlement, or divorce.

According to the Hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim, on the authority of Jabir, who had quoted the Prophet as saying in his farewell pilgrimage: “And fear Allah in women, for they are your aides, and their duties towards you is that your beds should not be shared with someone you dislike.

The question is, is this happening in the real world? Are husbands following that. Unfortunately, the answer is no. Many women around the glob suffer from abusing. Husbands either misunderstand the previous verses that talks about how to treat a disobedient wife and use it as a license for abuse.
--------------------------


Not necessarily. You have been reading the Quran with the assumption that it came from God. Therefore your views are already biased. You may be wrong without realizing it.

Naturally like everybody else, I’m biosed to my religion. However, this doesn’t mean that I’m not reading about the other side as well.


Doesn’t that apply to you more than it does to any of us? You believe whatever you read in the quran. And then you are quick to blame me without any justification.

I'm a Muslim, but I'd like to read about other religions as well. The more I read about other religions, the stronger my faith becomes..


That applies to religion as well. Any person can write any nonsense and make it a religion. This doesn't necessary mean that whatever s/he says is correct.
This applies to your nonsense as well.


Those websites are like used-car-salesmen. They are telling you the things you want to hear just to sell you Islam. Which is why I advised the readers to listen to both sides of an issue. Listen to the good things and listen to the bad things. The best source for the bad things in Islam are from those who are FORMER MUSLIMS.



Used-car-salesmen!? Is that what you call a website that illustrates a religion’s values. If I posted links referring to websites such as about Islam, Judaism or Christianity. What do you expect to read. You tell me.


What you trust is not necessarily correct. Test your knowledge and reasoning against mine and let the readers decide.

That's why we have brains.. I have read many sources and I'm still convinced with my values no matter what you are going to claim ;)


Lets do our discussion right here. :)


No Problem :-)



Muslims thousands of years ago massacred and assassinated each other just the same. Three of your first four Caliphs, companions of Mohammed himself, has been slaughtered in cold blood. The kaabah was destroyed and rebuilt. The ummah in spain fell because of internal strife.

I'll comment on this later..


The Qur’aan

The Qur’aan, the last revealed word of God (Allah), is the primary source of every [b]Muslim’s faith and practice. It deals with all the subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions, law, etc., but the basic theme is the relationship between Allah and His creatures. At the same time it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system.

The Qur’aan was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad in Arabic language, so any Qur’aanic translation, either in English or any other language, is neither a Qur’aan, or a version of the Qur’aan. It is rather only a translation of the meaning of the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan exist only in Arabic in which it revealed.

Comment: Qur’aan has various hidden meanings and every time I read it, I discover new things which I haven’t realized before. So, no matter what translation you have between your hands, no one can perfectly translate it. That’s why ppl who convert to Islam prefer to learn Arabic to understand the real values of Islam. So, logically you want me to doubt the original holy book which was inherited before thousands of years ago and believe a person came from no where?!! You are saying that all the billion of Muslims are mistaken and your guy and his followers are right? I don’t think so ;) Besides, I have read most of the content of the website which is written by him and once again it’s all crap. Plus, I checked and registered to the forum as well. You know what? Most of the members are totally rude and narrow minded and have no idea how to debate peacefully. I can understand now what type of ppl are following your guy ;)

The reason I disapprove the translation in the site that you previously offered is that it’s either doesn’t match the original source, which is followed by the billions of Muslims, or the translation is incomplete.



What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?
The question is back to you,, What makes you think that you are right and they are wrong?



Finally, I'd like to say that Islam teaches that out Creator has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves for ponder, to question and to reflect.

Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose. Even when a person is faced with truth, there is no compulsion upon him to embrace it.

but before you begin to form an opinion about Islam, ask yourself whether your existing knowledge about it is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have been probably been exposed to only random glimpses of Islamic writings and have yet to reason out on Islam objectively and systematically themselves.

You should find out for yourself about Islam from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach of truth.

Okay, my dear buddy.. that’s all for now even though I need to write more at some parts :)

God, I can’t feel my fingers,, I typed too much this time.. but I feel good after all. Now I can find some time for focusing on my final project :)
So, take care and let me hear from ya..


Peace

AranzA

[Mandylion]

As it seems everyone has had their say, I am going to close this thread. It has gone too far off-topic.