Why are some people irked by the idea of adopting foreign cultures?

[diceke]

Why are some people so irked by the idea of adopting cultural elements of another group (i.e. race, country)? Why is there such a stigma towards people (referred to as wannabes) inheriting cultural traditions of "others"? Some even seem to think that cultural traditions can be stolen via cultural diffusion. Elvis and his African American music, Japan and her Chinese cultural traditions, the world and sushi (http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-11/BKG-HERMAN-SUSHI-JAPAN.cfm?CFID=101581382&CFTOKEN=48243787), just to mention a few. (Oh, and someone said Japan took HER Halloween!!??)

To me, cultural diffusion is all about globalization, inter-cultural exchange, commercialization, and the fact that one culture has the power to influence another. It has always been this way!

Once these cultural elements are removed from the original cultural context, they may take on the new meanings, or may be stripped of meanings all together, the original context surfacing only as twisted echoes.

Those who wish to preserve their traditions may do so, but the realities of social change dictate that cultures do not remain "pure", and never have been "pure" in the first place. The change is inevitable. It is only in the perception of individuals within cultures that their cultures do not in fact change over time.

Unless copyrighted, cultures and traditions are in the public domain. They are a common cultural and intellectual heritage, so no one person can establish proprietary interests in cultural resources. Inheriting the traditions of "others" is nothing offensive or disrespectful. It's good to learn from "others" and make the learning your own.

So I'm here just to raise a question!:wave:

[bakaKanadajin]

That is a very difficult question to answers concisely. There are as many reasons why someone may or may not accept cultural integration as there are people in the world.

Beyond that, precisely how many cultures are being 'integrated' with one another? If it's globalization we're discussing then it's more like the spread of Western culture vs. all others that we're talking about isn't it?

And how do we define 'culture' and cultural integration? Are we talking about people participating in ceremonies, cooking different cuisines, listening to world music, exporting crafts, etc., (things you'd find little opposition to) or do we mean an economic 'takeover' and concordant infiltration of goods and services produced abroad that forcefully influences more traditional lifestyles by beating out small local businesses?

[Mars Man]

Those who wish to preserve their traditions may do so, but the realities of social change dictate that cultures do not remain "pure", and never have been "pure" in the first place. The change is inevitable. It is only in the perception of individuals within cultures that their cultures do not in fact change over time.



This is my contention too. I don't know why the quality of presentation seen here did not come up earlier, but I very much agree with diceke on this above point, and on most of his OP there. I hope to talk more about this too, and bring up some examples.

[Kinsao]

I think it's the perception that people are trying to be something they're not that irks people, rather than simply taking an interest in and appreciating elements of another culture.

[pugtm]

i think tough your point about the "wannabes" is a separate point. i have adopted many parts of other cultures and use them, thats fine but take for example my sister who does so on a superficial level with no real effort just to feel good. she is what is termed a wannabe, what is the difference. when i first learned about Japanese culture it was from a book called shogun. i realized Japanese culture is cool but the book was probably americanized, so i did actual research and put real effort into it. i am now learning Japanese doing Kendo and iaido, and practice Zen meditation, drink green tea etc. what does my sister do? read manga, watch anime, and spout out the 2 words of Japanese she knows whenever she gets the chance to show off. of course real enthusiasts are going to get aggravated with the "wannabes" for on so many levels(for reducing to the absurd, putting out no effort, annoying me day and night with absurd honorifics that are 100% incorrect, and in general giving true enthusiasts a bad name). so you see there is a difference between people who are really interested and wannabes.
as to your second point cultural purity never really existed, its always changed with trade and time and necessity especially trade and necessity. except maybe during japans isolation but even then inside influences changed the culture(imagine thousands of out of work samurai running around without an income...)

anyways there is something to be said about the hordes of wannabes who take a culture and make it look ridiculous but i doubt anyone really has any problems with people like us on this forum who take it seriously.

[tokapi]

it's the perception that people are trying to be something they're not that irks people



Exactly .... those individuals give me the creeps :(

I met one Chicago native online @ a Japanese language website who boastfully wrote Japan is a second home to him,he was over there for just 1 year as exchange student.That 29 year-old freako watched girl-kiddie Anime 小丸子 "Chibi Maruko-chan " for cultural understanding of Japan,not once mentioned some great Japanese literature or in-depth knowledge of Japanese traditions.:souka::okashii:

[Goldiegirl]

It's ok to adopt, but not to force. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be a choice....

[pugtm]

what do you mean by that?

[Goldiegirl]

to adopt is free will, to force isn't. simple really.

[MadamePapillon]

Once these cultural elements are removed from the original cultural context, they may take on the new meanings, or may be stripped of meanings all together, the original context surfacing only as twisted echoes.

Exactamundo. This is exactly why people have such a problem with this so-called 'adopting' of cultural elements. In fact, I couldn't have phrased it better myself.

When the original cultural context is 'stripped of meaning' and 'surfaces only as a twisted echo' than what is the point of 'adopting' this cultural trait in the first place?

It certainly doesn't show any desire to learn about the original culture in question and neither does it show any true respect towards the culture itself. It's a mockery of 'inter-cultural exchange' as you put it. In other words: Wannabes.

It's one thing to be genuinely interested in someones culture and history and make the effort to learn what you can and not be disrespectful... it's quite another to take the bits and pieces you like of that culture, ignore the history, and hollow it out until it's nothing more than a name you throw around to make yourself seem cool.

[pugtm]

to adopt is free will, to force isn't. simple really.
yeah but are you saying we only adopt through force? when is anyone forced to have such and such customs? i dont have to do anything i dont want. i don't really understand how someone can force you to make or have a tradition or idiom, or anything else for that matter. ive been living in the Usa nearly my whole life and have resisted irritation at my being completely unamerican. many fobs know more about parts of it culture than i do and yet i dont really feel preasure nor has anyone been really upset at me for it or told me to do anything. so too with japan or any other country i think. unless we are talking about several ones with um, how to put it subtly...strict reinforcement of local cultural mores and traditions.

[Mikawa Ossan]

In psychology there is a well documented 'ingroup-outgroup' phenomenon that is not limited to any culture or people.

I think that when the ingroup's sense of identity is threatened by taking on aspect of another group it causes tension within that group. I think it's pretty much as simple as that in many cases.

[bakaKanadajin]

Yes, excellent point Mikawasan. If I may add to it, the level of 'threat' or 'acceptance' depends largely on (in my opinion) how 'pure' or agreeable this adoption process is. When you enter a fairly well-established cultural group and try to add your own spin or flavour to it, this doesn't bode well. If you conform and take up that group's practices in a manner that conforms well with what's already going on then you're more readily accepted. I think being humble and not trying to immediately modify things is a given when entering a new group of any sort. These days with globalization and interaction happening on a micro scale in large urban centers, I'd say the sense of 'entitlement' the OP mentions is largely frown upon regarding certain practices (things not explicitly meant for enjoyment such as cuisine, drink, etc., although purists exist in those circles too) as people do not tend to view their cultural practices as a buffet that can be picked and chosen from or discarded at leisure. They want to see people taking it fairly seriously.

[Derfel]

Well you see pugtm, i don't powdered tea, i don't do martial arts, i don't draw manga, i don't eat Japanese food. I just study the language, and look out for the details of modern culture + do some history. Does this make me a wannabe lol? :D For me to live in a Japanese way at the moment is unnatural. Simply because it would be troublesome to live in a certain way just for the thrill of it. Im 17, not old, actually quite young, but still, after 17 years i already know what i like and what i don't like. And if i don't like sleeping on a futon mat, i swear by god i won't sleep on one just because its Japanese. Sure, if i were living in Japan i would do more Japanese stuff, but there is no point here. After all, im European, and if i like something, i will do it, but for no reason im not discarding my customs. If i liked powdered tea, i'd drink it, but the reason why im not drinking powdered tea is not because im a racist, its simply because i dislike it.

[MadamePapillon]

I'd say the sense of 'entitlement' the OP mentions is largely frown upon regarding certain practices

I'd say the hypocrisy you see in these situations is also a problem. Where in some places people view their own culture as sacred, pure and most definetly not for outsiders, and yet they don't view foreign cultures with the same consideration.

It's skirts awfully close to what most people would consider a percieved racial supremacy. Culture A is too good to be contaminated by outsiders but Culture B is fair game for anyone who wants a piece.

[pugtm]

Well you see pugtm, i don't powdered tea, i don't do martial arts, i don't draw manga, i don't eat Japanese food. I just study the language, and look out for the details of modern culture + do some history. Does this make me a wannabe lol? :D For me to live in a Japanese way at the moment is unnatural. Simply because it would be troublesome to live in a certain way just for the thrill of it. Im 17, not old, actually quite young, but still, after 17 years i already know what i like and what i don't like. And if i don't like sleeping on a futon mat, i swear by god i won't sleep on one just because its Japanese. Sure, if i were living in Japan i would do more Japanese stuff, but there is no point here. After all, im European, and if i like something, i will do it, but for no reason im not discarding my customs. If i liked powdered tea, i'd drink it, but the reason why im not drinking powdered tea is not because im a racist, its simply because i dislike it.
well i think you are misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that people who give no effort to whatever and simply claim the title to sound cool or different deserve our scorn. you and i are very much alike.

i am also 17 and cannot do a lot of things i would enjoy doing in japan(and god help the person who suggests sleeping on anything other than my tempurpedic mattress). I however like green tea and such and did research on the culture and am seriously learning the language and such. I respect anyone who takes whatever they like too do seriously, i don't care if its another culture or your own. sorry for the misunderstanding!!!:sorry:

[Goldiegirl]

I was bussed 1.5 hours to an "inner city" school to force integration. They thought that just moving people about would somehow bring about change and cultural acceptance. I had nothing in common with that area or the people who lived there. It's not my culture, custom or traditions, and although I can accept what it different, don't think for minute that I could have ever changed to a city dweller. I don't like being in Tokyo either, but I am not forced to go there. I also don't appreciate burkas, and that we have Spanish as a second language, and lots more. I think you can be what you want in your own home, but when you live in Rome, do as the Romans. If people come to your house and like what they see the will follow your custom.

[pugtm]

your in tokyo? for what reason especially if you dont like it there? its the most expensive city on earth to live in.

[Goldiegirl]

My husbands job is in Tokyo. I go back there every few months with him so he can go to meetings etc. I think Tokyo is an amazing city, but it's just not for me. I much prefer the countryside of Japan.