After you watch the film "Nanking" ,you will sure say:... [Archive]

AichiAlex

Nov 30, 2007, 11:52

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20071121/Img253375910.jpg
you could see also in this link :
1, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0893356/
2, http://nankingthefilm.com/
I will say:Wipe the evil Japanese out from the world once for all! the A boom is not the end , but just the start!!
Do we have the chance? sure ~
now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!

I completely agree with this because the Government currently in place in Japan is exactly the same as the government in place 70 years ago. Not only that, but the same people are in power, because Japanese people are immortal. I like to watch movies that are meant to inform and show human triumph and turn them into fodder for my hate-speech. I think I'll go find another race to hate and find a forum to write hate-posts in.

tokapi

Nov 30, 2007, 12:32

My 2 cents,self-defeating victimhood complex :(:(:(

Nall-ohki

Nov 30, 2007, 14:05

I completely agree with this because the Government currently in place in Japan is exactly the same as the government in place 70 years ago. Not only that, but the same people are in power, because Japanese people are immortal. I like to watch movies that are meant to inform and show human triumph and turn them into fodder for my hate-speech. I think I'll go find another race to hate and find a forum to write hate-posts in.

BIGOT-DAR BEEPS!
BIGOT-DAR BEEPS!
BIGOT-DAR BEEPS!
BIGOT-DAR BEEPS!
BIGOT-DAR BEEPS!

SARCASM DETECTED!

... false alarm.

tokapi

Nov 30, 2007, 14:19

REALITY CHECK :-)

* Japanese are well-treated,respected,& most favorable Asian nationality
* Chinese ( mainlanders :(:p ) are negative in all imaginable ways :bluush:
* even their " little brothers " S Koreans now despise Chi-nee people as filthy lowly third-worlder race.:blush:

4321go

Nov 30, 2007, 14:36

REALITY CHECK :-)
* Japanese are well-treated,respected,& most favorable Asian nationality
* Chinese ( mainlanders :(:p ) are negative in all imaginable ways :bluush:
* even their " little brothers " S Koreans now despise Chi-nee people as filthy lowly third-worlder race.:blush:

So ,what kinds of race you are ? ET? well :cool:

In fact , your 3 points above are all right in ET's eyes ,maybe~~

pipokun

Nov 30, 2007, 19:57

In Japan, all political dissidents such as anti-US base activists are always loud in a sunny/rainy day.
I don't know why young Chinese people has been silent.
No arrest under the name of patiatism, isn't it?

Do you think the movie put more gasoline in the patriotic violence?

*snip*
Chinese warship arrives in Japan
The visit was previously delayed as relations hit a rocky patch
A Chinese warship has arrived in Japan for the first time since World War II.
The crew of the missile destroyer Shenzhen will spend four days in Tokyo, taking part in various events to promote good bilateral relations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7116370.stm

A Chinese warship comes to Tokyo, but it is a great mystery that no protest from the Japanese liberal-heads who harshly oppose the US ones.

Murs

Dec 1, 2007, 02:57

But thats 4 days in Tokyo, for basically a show of peace. The US there is quite something else.

MadamePapillon

Dec 1, 2007, 03:10

REALITY CHECK :-)
* Japanese are well-treated,respected,& most favorable Asian nationality
* Chinese ( mainlanders :(:p ) are negative in all imaginable ways :bluush:
* even their " little brothers " S Koreans now despise Chi-nee people as filthy lowly third-worlder race.:blush:

Please be a part of the solution, not the problem. :okashii:

bakaKanadajin

Dec 1, 2007, 03:17

now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!

You mean the cancerous toothpaste and toys made of lead your country exports?

Anyone can point a finger at anyone, why even bring up events from so long ago?

bebopdobop

Dec 1, 2007, 05:29

Every country in the world has done terrible things, some time or another. I don't doubt that in almost every country still, terrible things are happening. It is important that we know our history so it doesn't repeat, but we can't dwell on it. I don't think that a majority of Japanese people hate Americans because of the bomb, but they could. We are all subject to our governments and the propaganda that they throw our way. We can make our own decisions, but pretty much everyone has some kind of prejudice (be it religious, racial, or behavioral). It just depends on how much we rule our lives with them.

Shibuyaexpat

Dec 1, 2007, 06:19

REALITY CHECK :-)
* Japanese are well-treated,respected,& most favorable Asian nationality
* Chinese ( mainlanders :(:p ) are negative in all imaginable ways :bluush:
* even their " little brothers " S Koreans now despise Chi-nee people as filthy lowly third-worlder race.:blush:

Where are you getting this trash info?

4321go

Dec 3, 2007, 22:26

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20071121/Img253375910.jpg
you could see also in this link :
1, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0893356/
2, http://nankingthefilm.com/
I will say:Wipe the evil Japanese out from the world once for all! the A boom is not the end , but just the start!!
Do we have the chance? sure ~
now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!

I must admit that it was written after I was full of anger .the film is the true evidence.

some of my word maybe ... but there are so many Japanese want deny the truth,and don't stop their evil plan... you may ask what is it? you could watch the end of the film ,it shows what many Japanese doing today...

hanachan

Dec 16, 2007, 12:24

the film is the true evidence.

No, it was Kuomintang's propaganda. Mao knew that. So he never told about the Nanking case under his government.

In spite of a mercy appeal of Chiang Kai-shek 蒋介石, Gen. Matsui has been executed as a war crime of the Nanjing case after all.

4321go

Dec 18, 2007, 00:24

No, it was Kuomintang's propaganda. Mao knew that. So he never told about the Nanking case under his government.

In spite of a mercy appeal of Chiang Kai-shek 蒋介石, Gen. Matsui has been executed as a war crime of the Nanjing case after all.

~...
You just confirm that the Japanese want deny it ~ maybe you don't know this film is produced by American! if you can say Mao brainwashed these American~ or these American are one of the Kuomintang's member?

After all ,you just tell me about how Japanese think about themself and their neighbor.

...

Murs

Dec 18, 2007, 02:42

REALITY CHECK :-)
* Japanese are well-treated,respected,& most favorable Asian nationality
* Chinese ( mainlanders :(:p ) are negative in all imaginable ways :bluush:
* even their " little brothers " S Koreans now despise Chi-nee people as filthy lowly third-worlder race.:blush:

I hope you're being sarcastic. :souka:

kireikoori

Dec 31, 2007, 14:55

I will say:Wipe the evil Japanese out from the world once for all! the A boom is not the end , but just the start!!
Do we have the chance? sure ~
now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!
Wipe out Japanese people? But then my homestay family that was so nice to me and told me I was like family would die. And my most favorite singer of all time who I have a major crush on would die as well.

I haven't seen this movie yet. But I have seen Men Behind the Sun. Believe me I'm no stranger to the gruesome things that have happened because of war.

But to hate Japanese people for War atrocities? That would makes as much sense as hating Mongolians over Temujin.

I'm sorry but if you want to genocide the Japanese then you are my enemy. I deeply enjoy a lot about Japanese culture, enough so that I signed up for this forum. And there are even people I have a personal connection to. I would defend my homestay family with my life I had to.

Oh, by the way, you're not being a very good ambassador for China. Some people might get a bad impression of China because of you. ;)

4321go

Jan 4, 2008, 02:09

Wipe out Japanese people? But then my homestay family that was so nice to me and told me I was like family would die. And my most favorite singer of all time who I have a major crush on would die as well.
I haven't seen this movie yet. But I have seen Men Behind the Sun. Believe me I'm no stranger to the gruesome things that have happened because of war.
But to hate Japanese people for War atrocities? That would makes as much sense as hating Mongolians over Temujin.
I'm sorry but if you want to genocide the Japanese then you are my enemy. I deeply enjoy a lot about Japanese culture, enough so that I signed up for this forum. And there are even people I have a personal connection to. I would defend my homestay family with my life I had to.
Oh, by the way, you're not being a very good ambassador for China. Some people might get a bad impression of China because of you. ;)
Hahaha...

Actually , before I watched the film "NanKing", I watched the Scary Movie "Resident Evil: Extinction" ,I am sure you have watched that film too.
The film "NanKing" is more horrible than the Scary Movie "Resident Evil: Extinction".

I hope it won't happen again !~

The P.M. of Japan now visit China now . and 4 months later, The president of China ,Hu will visit Japan , I think the untrust of the two conturies will end in the year 2008.

Homerduff

Jan 4, 2008, 02:27

So is China such a lovely place after all ? I remember a certain Mao who let his OWN PEOPLE starve to death. I'm horrified of what happened in Nanking and ofcourse I understand your anger, but it's not a reason to blame all Japanese for it (especially not this generation of people).

4321go

Jan 4, 2008, 19:59

Happy to see that your Occupation is Student (Journalism) .

Actually , I have seen so many people with the logic as you ,but I think as a Student of Journalism major, I suggest you change your logic .

magevampjoe

Jan 5, 2008, 01:28

Has anyone ever heard of PROPAGANDA?
Japan did some bad things in the past, but so has the US, the UK, the Germans, in fact everyone.

Why did the Japanese hate the Chinese and the Americans so much in WW2? PROPAGANDA. Why did the Germans hate the Jews? PROPAGANDA. Why did the British hate the Germans? PRO-PAAA-GANDA.

In some countries though, it is obvious that that sort of propaganda is still going on...
Just a question to 4321go. Do you ever see any movies like Die Hard where an American cop stops international threats, or those war movies which show Americans winning? No, you probably see the ones where people are hating you and your country, because they are the ones that everyone wants to see. (Note: Movies OFTEN are not true to history; the last samurai, etc etc) and you take these movies as a personal insult. Nobody hates you. You just think they do. Its called paranoia.

Please, moderators, if you think I hate stepped the line into insults in this post, I will edit some out.

Sensationalist

Jan 5, 2008, 07:44

You haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about, 4321go . Please, enough of the BS.

4321go

Jan 5, 2008, 20:18

Notice the title of this Thread :After you watched...

If you haven't seen the film , of course! you have no right to reply.

If I am going to recommend a documentary, then Nanking will be it

This film is not the PROPAGANDA, it is a documentary films,I hope this film is made by Chinese,or Japanese. but it isn't~!
Please ~see the film before you reply!~

hanachan

Jan 5, 2008, 22:14

This film is not the PROPAGANDA, it is a documentary films,I hope this film is made by Chinese,or Japanese. but it isn't~!
Please ~see the film before you reply!~

documentary films? No, it's an entertainment movie based on Chinese Propaganda.

Before your edited your post, that is;
This film is *not* the PROPAGANDA, for it is not made by Communist Party or China.
You also don't think that the Chinese government is trusted in the world?
ditto. :blush:

TuskCracker

Jan 12, 2008, 15:18

know issues like this become "political hot potato"

The documentary/movie "NANKING U.S.A., 2006, 91 Minutes", is receiving great reviews.

It was shown at the "Sundance Film Festival" and "Tribeca Film Festival".

I read a review of this documentary in the "New Yorker" magazine. It gave this a great review.

The "New Yorker" review, said that it showed many foreigners; "Germans, Americans and such", hid many Chinese civilians, at their peril.

So my point. What impact will this have in Asia ?

Are the general public of Japan tired of this issue ?

Will this be shown in Japan ?

_.

hanachan

Jan 21, 2008, 00:28

So my point. What impact will this have in Asia ?
Are the general public of Japan tired of this issue ?
Will this be shown in Japan ?

Asia is not the one. At least China and Korea (North or South) are different from other areas in Asia. Their national policy is "anti-Japan" more or less.
I don't think that this movie becomes the topic like your reported for the moment in Japan.
At least Chinese government may not want to stimulate much Japan till "Summer Games" is over.

"Will this be shown in Japan?" --- If this movie said it was a fiction based on the novel by Iris Chang...

Americans made this movie for Chinese government with Chinese money. We Japanese were disappointed at that.
If Japanese proves the lie of Chinese propaganda, what do you think about it?

kireikoori

Jan 26, 2008, 05:22

I will say:Wipe the evil Japanese out from the world once for all! the A boom is not the end , but just the start!!
Do we have the chance? sure ~
now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!
After you read 4321go's posts you will surely say: Wipe the evil Chinese out from the world once for all! the Nanking Massacre is not the end , but just the start!!
Do we have the chance? sure ~
now there are so many evil Chinese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!

Half-n-Half

Jan 26, 2008, 06:17

4321go...have you ever talked with a Japanese person? Ever met one? Even if you have, there are over a hundred million Japanese people. How can you pass judgment on every single one of them based off of a movie you watched? I totally disagree with everything you have posted. Even so, I'm not gonna use you as an example to pass judgment on the entire Chinese race as a result. I can understand you're angry, but please, don't resort to racism and CERTAINLY not genocide. That is just plain ignorant, stupid, horrifying, insulting, and shows what kind of character you are.

4321go

Jan 28, 2008, 14:46

to Half-n-Half.
before you（Half-n-Half.） watch yourself in the mirror, I ignore you ~

to kireikoori,
please edit your post like this : "After I read 4321go's post I will say". you can't force the man think like the housefly or pig ~!right? and I will tell you that I won't care about what the pig say! and of course the pig has NO right force the people agree on what the pig say! so edit your post ,change the word "you" to "kireikoori".

Half-n-Half

Jan 29, 2008, 09:16

to Half-n-Half.
before you（Half-n-Half.） watch yourself in the mirror, I ignore you ~
The fact that you won't respond to what I have pointed out as a major flaw in your character shows you have no intention of holding an intelligent conversation and cannot back up your racist behavior. Look at myself in the mirror, what is that supposed to mean? Are you honestly suggesting I am a racist because I called you out on your racism and radical ideas of genocide?
In my very humble opinion, I think this thread has gone horribly wrong. It is obvious that the OP's original intent was not to incite discussion but to spread hatred and racism. TO ANY MODERATOR READING THIS, I HUMBLY ASK THAT YOU LOCK THIS THREAD IMMEDIATELY! PLEASE! *cherry on top*

Mikawa Ossan

Jan 29, 2008, 17:27

Although this particular thread has been rocky from the start, I do see some hope in it.

I would like to hear 4321go's response to the allegation that this film was made with Chinese money as opposed to American money. If this is true, it does cast some doubt as to the validity (or more prececisely, the objectivity) of its evidence.

I will allow the thread to remain open, but I would like to hear what 4321go has to say on this matter.

4321go

Feb 1, 2008, 01:49

Hi ,Mikawa Ossan . It is a long time since we talk in the chatroom ,right? hehe ,I know that you understand what I 'v said in this thread.

You ask me to talk about the investor of this film ,I think if someone claim this film was made with Chinese money ,he should show the evidence such as who provide the money ? how many? when?

hanachan said that:Americans made this movie for Chinese government with Chinese money. but she could not prove that.So ,I have no reason to trust it~!

However, I check the investor of this film. the major inverstor is the vice president of AOL(American Online),his name is :Ted Leonsis.

As far as I know ,none of Japanese film-distribution company would issue this film.and the the person involved such as the old soldier ...
"We search for the director in Japan willing to assist us in the work of the veterans of the difficulties encountered great. Fortunately, after several efforts, and ultimately find the courage to stand up a number of wise men and the peace movement are willing to help us work. Many veterans have been seriously seeking truth from facts and memories about their real experience. But then very few people act on their expressed sincere remorse."said Ted Leonsis.

Mikawa Ossan

Feb 1, 2008, 17:36

Thank you, 4321go!

I think it only fair to now ask Hanachan where she got her information that the film was funded with Chinese money. Hanachan?

pipokun

Feb 1, 2008, 23:15

When will we can watch "A letter from Wang Jingwei"?

Do you think it was a bit strange that Mr Wen, your premier, recognised what Japan contributed to your country more than 60 years after the war?

hanachan

Feb 1, 2008, 23:24

Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/30/AR2006073000026.html

Two million dollars later, having pulled together a film crew and navigated the bureaucracy in China, Leonsis's documentary about the incident is nearing completion.
Though he calls the project a "labor of love," he is also hoping it can find enough of an audience to turn a profit -- and give him broader access to a Chinese market where memories of Nanking remain raw. Chinese television rights to the show have been sold, and Leonsis said he hopes to use local DVD sales as an advertising platform for businesses that want to break into the Chinese market. Case in point: There are 500 million television households in China, and the Chinese national television network, CCTV, paid what Leonsis said was a "significant" advance for broadcast rights for the film. In addition, an estimated 65 million Chinese live outside the country, and they may pay to see the movie in a theater or buy a DVD or watch on the Internet.

中国には5億世帯がTVを持っており、
中国の国営テレビ局CCTVは、レオンシス曰く「大変な額」をこの映画の放映権の前金として支払った。
更に、国外にも6,500万人もの中国人がいると見積もら� 黷ﾄおり、
彼等は映画館に行くか、DVDを購入するか、ネットで見� 驤ﾗに金を払うかも知れない。

"This is ripped-from-the-headline stuff," Leonsis said.
「これは大々的三面記事ものだよ」
とレオンシスは言った。

The Chinese initially discussed owning an interest in the film, but Leonsis said its credibility would be enhanced if a third party told the story.

中国側は当初、この映画の所有権を持つ事について語っていたが、レオンシスは、第三者がこの物語を語れば、その信頼性が増すだろう、と言った。

"They felt comfortable with our crew and they liked our motives," Leonsis said. "They want this story to be told by a Westerner."

「彼等は我々のチームに満足し、我々の動機も気に入った」
とレオンシスは言った。
「彼等はこの物語を西側の人間によって語って欲しいのだ」。

hanachan

Feb 6, 2008, 00:01

Mikawa Ossan, 4321go,
I'm still waiting... What do you say next?

Mikawa Ossan

Feb 6, 2008, 06:06

Hanachan, please understand that this is not my issue. I just want to keep the thread as civil as possible.

panzer

Feb 6, 2008, 06:16

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 07:51

Thats something, I also do not understand.

We Germans face it, for long already. I grew up with the holocast pictures in my head, no chance to escape this, and I was just under 10 years old and had many nightmares about it, but was so thankfull for knowing this in the end.

I have a child from a partly jewish, from a family that had to escape all that and hide. I know, what I did and that it was alright and the best way to show this. I dearly loved that man, who died in the meantime.
Also I can live with the facts, that his family tried to step in between our love, which I can very well understand, even if I also got very hurt by this. But they dearly love our daughter now, and opened their doors for me, a bit late after all, and I cannot go there, because I will be too close to tears, because of my own pains about all the past and what they have been through as well. But my daughter is loved and very much cared for and completely included in the family, and does understand it all.

I am crying, while I write this, but it is alright, and I am glad, that no one has lied to me about or holocaust past. I am willing to pay the bill, with love, with other words.

We have on the other hand dearly been invited by younger jewish people, but also by Palestines, and before my love died, he made a CD with Palestine songs and had according friends, and excused himself for a lot before he died, also instead of his parents. He never needed to at all, but he did. I did not know what to say then, because he must have been equally hurt from the intervening past. I cried a lot, when he left us, no way to hide it from my daughter. But life goes on.

And it all dictated my arts. And, I will not forget, how my korean fríends hugged me, when they heard about all this, and what they had to say from thier own past. . .also with a wide open door. Believe me, they did not lie, nor did my chinese friends. But also in Japan I found wonderfull people, who understood. but people who ignored, where hardly on my way. To meet them here, is a severe shock for me, and I can only wonder, when they will wake up...because the should.

Believe me, we are furtherhin willing here, to never forget, but just because of this, we will try everything, to bridge the gaps in all directions. My daughter has become very good in this, internationally. She would not accept any racism around her.

If some deny those old facts, it will only start again, it does not disappear by itself. Those who ignore, obviously show a high amount of brutality and disrespect in general. Racism and brutality grows on ignorance! We have to work on it, and the first step is to face it, and I am very glad, that I did, however hard it was.

If some in Japan cannot do it on their own, it will for sure cause many desasters again, also to themselves. The facts are on the table, for all to see, they only have to look!
A little sumimasen or gomenasai can work wonders already, I always thought, they know this. . .

And face it, dear Japanese, your emperor is not a God, nobody is, we are all humans, maybe that helps.

caster51

Feb 6, 2008, 21:29

if masscre/rape of nanking never happened, then holocaust never happened.

why does japan keep denying the facts when there are facts all over the place? there are many corpses buried in nanking, you see photo evidences, there are also eye-witnesses, even formal japanese soldiers say they did commit the atrocity.

Japanese soldier killed many chinese at battle field because of war.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=4LbVeadjSbo
WAR DAMAGE IN THE NANKING AREA
December, 1937 to March, 1938
http://www.history.gr.jp/~nanking/LSCSmythe.pdf
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9609/23/rare.photos/index.html
Tungchow Mutiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhou_Incident
Subcommittee on "The Fake of Nanking
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMbZ0N_Wdc
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=5spqgXtYFRo
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=68PloqHqJ3U

,you will sure say:...

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 21:40

Lol, don't tell a German. . .particularly after the alliance with us.

War is never a thing outside people causing it, nor an excuse.

There are enough documents about the original japanese reasons, said by the Japanese themselves (same with Germany, of course, I never excuse my own ancesters either). And Nanjing is Nanjing.

As for the forrunner, one must not be surprised, if those, who were forced to become "Japanese Territory" in China, were hitting back.

I really need no education on this.

But nevertheless thanks to learn about your view.

I hope, the next thing you say is not: that Japan never made any war, that Japanese were never in China etc.

And as for China, they also made wars, and so did and do many others. Yet its no excuse. You can put your damages on the scales, and let the judges tell everyone.

Best would be, not to fight at all, and particularly not over other's.
Again, wars are manmade and thus within their responsibilities, which have to be faced, not an outside tsunami or earthquake.

caster51

Feb 6, 2008, 21:46

Japan never killed ppl who was not relaterd with war and enemy as racial obliteration

Lol, don't tell a German. . .particularly after the alliance with us

it has nothing to do with nanking..

who helped Jew?
who killed Jews?

kireikoori

Feb 6, 2008, 21:55

And face it, dear Japanese, your emperor is not a God, nobody is, we are all humans, maybe that helps.
Are you denying the existence of 現人神(Arahitogami)? Are you denying that a person can be a God? Or just denying that Hirohito was a God?

It is personally my religious belief that a human God can exist.

Hiroyuki Nagashima

Feb 6, 2008, 21:58

if masscre/rape of nanking never happened, then holocaust never happened.

A cause,
The Japanese armed forces march in Nanjing and,
The commander of the Chinese armed forces ordered a subordinate in Nanjing defense,
However, he escaped immediately.
Because a commander escaped,
A Chinese soldier made up as refugees and escaped.
This was international war violation.
To disclose the Chinese soldier that the Japanese armed forces made up as refugees,
I think that the slaughter happened then.

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:03

Japan never killed ppl who was not relaterd with war and enemy as racial obliteration
it has nothing to do with nanking..
who helped Jew?
who killed Jews?

Japan's reasons for that ar are known, Caster.
What, racial obliteration?? Never killed children and women and other innocents? You must be joking!

I said already, that I never excuse my own people either, if you please dare to read this.

kireikoori

Feb 6, 2008, 22:10

caster51

Feb 6, 2008, 22:12

J Never killed children and women and other innocents? You must be joking!
I said already, that I never excuse my own people either, if you please dare to read this.

there was no war that civillian was not involved as a victim.:(
However Japan never did the ethnic cleansing

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:13

Are you denying the existence of 現人神(Arahitogami)? Are you denying that a person can be a God? Or just denying that Hirohito was a God?

It is personally my religious belief that a human God can exist.
Sorry, I don't know, who Arahitogami is.
Yes, I am denying, that a person can be god, since god is, if I ever believe in this concept, everything and everyone, not just one person.
But this belongs to a religious thread, concerning the idea of God in general. There you can read more, please.
I am a Taoist at best in this, surely not one for any God-dynasties, (although I like all he ancient stories very much!)
Particularly not into anyone, who claims to be THE god.
No German is into this anyhow, not even about the Pope.
And when Bush comes with something in this direction, we laugh.

Hirohito was no god for sure, and it is wellknown, when and why this story was made up.
It belongs to the past.
Emperor, why not, thats understandable, even if self claimed at first in such dynasties. Thats what they all do. Its just a worldly power game.

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:22

If I'm not mistaken, all of Japan's royalty, the Imperial House of Japan are claimed to be descended for Amaterasu. Not just Hirohito.
Am I wrong? Also, what's so nationalistic and wrong about this religious idea?

Exactly that claim plus the supposed to be "bloodline" was built up for the followers and to gain national strength. Its undertandable in the whole context though, and a clever idea.
I do like the Amaterasu idea as such (only concerning Amaterasu and Co.) in general though, very much so even, and often try to explain it to friends with joy, but independant of all that followed, and just as an image. A fine one indeed! No doubt at all.

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:30

there was no war that civillian was not involved as a victim.:(
However Japan never did the ethnic cleansing

You must be joking! The Korea issue also was very close to this!
With Nazi-ideologies even, blinded by my own kind here.
What did you do these wars for anyhow?
Don't say, the Chinese or Koreans started it.
Well, we know. You must not answer.

I also once more blame my own ancestors for same reasons, but none of you seem to look at theirs, and thats strange these days. . .
For many, who mention Japan.

kireikoori

Feb 6, 2008, 22:30

Sorry, I don't know, who Arahitogami is.
Arahitogami is the Japanese word for a person who is a God.

Yes, I am denying, that a person can be god, since god is, if I ever believe in this concept, everything and everyone, not just one person.
Ah, a Pantheist. I'm a bit of a Pantheist too. A Pandeist actually.
As an Animist/Shamanist religion, Shinto is supposed to a bit this way too. But it's also polytheist animist/shamanist(much like the Germanic and Uralic Pagan religions). Meaning everything is spirit but there are clumps.

Don't you believe spiritual matter is heavier with some that with others? Do you truly believe that all spiritual matter is all evenly distributed?

But this belongs to a religious thread, concerning the idea of God in general. There you can read more, please.
Ah yes, I should make a thread for this subject. I'll be making one now and continuing it there.

hanachan

Feb 6, 2008, 22:34

Hirohito was no god for sure, and it is wellknown, when and why this story was made up.
It belongs to the past.
Emperor, why not, thats understandable, even if self claimed at first in such dynasties. Thats what they all do. Its just a worldly power game.

Sorry, I don't like your these words.

In my opinion,
Japanese Emperor is a kind of shaman in the Shinto, different from emperors and kings in Europe.
He continues a closed event every day.
He has been the Japanese totem which continued as one country more than 2000 years.
Why continues the Pope being succeeded to?
I think that Japanese Emperor has the same meaning.

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:35

Kireikoori:
Yes, please, do make an extra thread (A general god thread does exist already), I would in fact love to talk to you about this, esp. concerning japanese views, we both can only learn this way, I hope.
But I will be busy for a bit more than a week, our Berlinale Filmfestival, you know, I have to check the "asian post" in there, as I call it.;-)

caster51

Feb 6, 2008, 22:35

You must be joking! The Korea issue also was very close to this

what did japan do against korea?:blush:

you mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHeghTfaVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3-YzsugcY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JESc4H0awH0

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:43

Sorry, I don't like your these words.

In my opinion,
Japanese Emperor is a kind of shaman in the Shinto, different from emperors and kings in Europe.
He continues a closed event every day.
He has been the Japanese totem which continued as one country more than 2000 years.
Why continues the Pope being succeeded to?
I think that Japanese Emperor has the same meaning.

You must not get puzzled by our western understandings, the worldly thread and the church one divided herabout longtime ago.
I do agree in (and would welcome) the general (not related to the japanese emperor here, please) idea of a basic shaman as additionally a wise worldly leader, an all in one person, but that belongs to ages ago in most cases, because of very corrupt worldly parts in this already.

You might also like to join in the suggested new thread from Kireikoo.
And, please, don't feel misunderstood, you may find out, that I understand much better than you think. Lets sort this out, I am also all ears then, and had lots of nice talks about it in Japan itself, always friendly, by the way. :-)

hanachan

Feb 6, 2008, 22:44

if masscre/rape of nanking never happened, then holocaust never happened.

why does japan keep denying the facts when there are facts all over the place? there are many corpses buried in nanking, you see photo evidences, there are also eye-witnesses, even formal japanese soldiers say they did commit the atrocity.

is japan in state of denial? probably they are scared of truth? which one is it?

Why does Korea keep denying the facts when there are facts all over the place?
Korea was on our side at that time. Korean soldiers also in Nanking then?

Anyway Korea celebrated the fall of Nanking in 1937.

http://zeroempty000.blogspot.com/2008/01/nanjing-massacre-and-korea.html

Chi65,
Thank you.:-)

Chi65

Feb 6, 2008, 22:54

what did japan do against korea?:blush:
you mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHeghTfaVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3-YzsugcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JESc4H0awH0

Sorry, I cannot follow this thread any further for simple time reasons(I need more for myself right now, because I am not the fastest any more, plus have a lot ahead. . .), it may also belong to Korea and Japan relations.

I will nevertheles watch, thank you. But as said, I am for years closely connected with China, Korea and Japan and have not been sleeping, nor always worn only pink glasses at all.
I also do welcome any of your critics on us Germans and past as well, honestly! If it helps both sides, even better. OK?

Be well!

4321go

Feb 6, 2008, 23:01

Hehe ,today is the Spring Festival (Chinese New Year's Day )

We use the firework to celebrate the Spring Festival ~!

http://sc-pic.jz173.com/pic1/20070724/yanhuayanhuo/021847yanhuayanhuo2_099.jpg

http://photo10.hexun.com/p/2008/0206/169322/b_F36952D1F2223FD9A865E968D445FD36.jpg

And thank you :panzer and Chi65 . I am glad to read the words from you .

panzer

Feb 7, 2008, 06:22

Chi65

Feb 7, 2008, 08:09

As for the Koreans celebrating the fall of Nanking.

Maybe several reasons to consider:

1. they were already occupied (not allied to nor siding freely) by the Japanese, which means, they did as they were told.

and/or

2. they had their own severe troubles with China for long and thus may have thought, Japan is the smaller evil, lets stop the bigger one first via using the smaller one etc., themselves being just a small country, constantly run over by bigger ones. . .and if it helps to get rid of Chinese influences and traumas, well, maybe its not THAT bad to play being on Japanese side, at least in this and for a while.

But be sure, they are not a forgetting country at all, as soon as possible, they shake any invader off, from tradition. The simple fact, that they still exist, be it in two parts, shows, how immensely strong and courageous they really are. They should not be underrated at all. Also in bridging and passing on cultures, they have always been a gem and very powerfull, and would soo much love to be left alone and just do their arts, as they have told me many times.

I personally am also very much on their side in this!

Chi65

Feb 7, 2008, 08:26

japanese believe they never commited nanjing masscre and brutality against koreans.
what a riot!
I'm very happy that Germany didn't hide what they did during WWII like bunch of cowards.
apparently, japanese government is good at brainswashing their own citizens to hide the truth.

Lets say, we Germans tried at least and can only recommend doing so. Any other way is meaningless and in fact, cowardish indeed (sorry, but a fact).
All that zigzagging proves the real thing/trouble/guilt behind. It poisons and blinds the mind after a while, not to mention the paranoia, that it builds up. And that can very well lead to new uncontrolled outbreaks. Ask any psychologist. While facing would immediately cure.
While any racist blabla heats up for new wars.

But thats not new, we often had this theme here in Berlin, particularly during the Berlinale, since many young and old japanese filmers do try to name it and research on their own, very successfully even, and they know very well, that we are the ones to watch and listen, without blaming, being aware of our own deeds. We even pass on prices for this!! We nevertheless accept Japan's good sides after all this, as you can see.
Therefore we may know more here, than the native people in Japan.
Any agreeing in the past's wrongs would win sympathies again.
Thats our experience, and we wish to pass this on, amongst friends.
May it be heard.

Yes, 4321go,
and Happy New Year to everybody!!

http://www.travelachina.com/travelimages/chinesenewyear/mouse-year.jpg

caster51

Feb 7, 2008, 10:47

We even pass on prices for this!! We nevertheless accept Japan's good sides after all this, as you can see.
Therefore we may know more here, than the native people in Japan.
Any agreeing in the past's wrongs would win sympathies again.
Thats our experience, and we wish to pass this on, amongst friends.
May it be heard.

:blush::blush:.......................

General Lee

Jun 23, 2008, 03:38

America has done the same thing. Just a bit more politically correct, and justified by propaganda.

America was mad because Japan was attempting to conquer and colonize the lands europe and themselves had already conquered and colonized for themselves.

Nanking was a much more efficient way to colonize and secure land and resources.

TuskCracker

Jun 25, 2008, 05:20

America has done the same thing. Just a bit more politically correct, and justified by propaganda.
.......Nanking was a much more efficient way to colonize and secure land and resources

This is complete idioticy. The "Rape Of Nanking" in WWII has no parallel with American history. Nothing happened on that scale, and such brutality. You can go with events such as "Wounded Knee", but the scale and brutality are not even close. And as for American slavery, a civil war occured to stop it.

Anyways, WWII has become ancient history.
_.

TuskCracker

Jun 25, 2008, 05:30

-
I guess if I had read the first post, I would n-o-t have wasted my time on such a biased hate filled thread.

Lets face it.
- -> WWII is becoming ancient history
- - > With the Internet, books and movies, the truth is very available to even the youngest Japanese citizen.

First posting
I will say:Wipe the evil Japanese out from the world once for all! the A boom is not the end , but just the start!!

Do we have the chance? sure ~

now there are so many evil Japanese , they are the virus .and the anti virus project is moving ~!

AroundTheWorld

Jun 25, 2008, 13:37

I knew I would have to deal with this issue sooner or later...

While the speculation on whether or not Nanking happened is pointless (there is sufficient evidence to prove that it happened) Between 150,000 and 350,000 people were killed. Civilian or military, guilty or innocent, they are all the same. America killed civilians in Vietnam, and they kill civilians in Iraq. It has happened in every culture to some extent. This should show that all humans are equal. We should work toward preventing disasters such as Nanking and the atomic bombings of Najasaki and Hiroshima instead of fighting about whether or not it they were justified.

Iris Chang's book and my own research say that the Japanese decided to kill the inhabitants of the city because they did not have the supplies to feed them or the space to accomodate both the Chinese and their army. If they were to take Nanking, they needed those supplies. Wartime Japan was considered to be waging "total war" in which you fight against everything in the country. Logically (and this may sound cold) civilians are expendable in total war. Also, those times were desperate times for Japan, and any country in war.

Those people who are so offended by civilian casualties should avoid war.

I can shorten that: People should avoid war.

The actions of a nation of one era to another should not cripple the empathy a human being can feel for another, or make them think wrongly of another human being. What control of it did they have?

Its unjust to judge someone by what their ancestors did.

The only problem I have with Japan is that Nanking has been played down and removed from textbooks, and no one wanted to face the issue because Japan wanted smoother trade with China. This still goes on today, but I hope the Japanese (and the Chinese) can one day finally put Nanking behind them.

tokapi

Jun 25, 2008, 13:43

Its unjust to judge someone by what their ancestors did.

The only problem I have with Japan is that Nanking has been played down and removed from textbooks.

This still goes on today, but I hope the Japanese (and Chinese) can one day finally put Nanking behind them.

Ditto ... Ditto ... :wave:

Only ' time " can heal old wounds :relief:

AroundTheWorld

Jun 26, 2008, 06:14

Ditto ... Ditto ... :wave:
Only ' time " can heal old wounds :relief:

Time and understanding. ^^

Sorry, I don't like your these words.

In my opinion,
Japanese Emperor is a kind of shaman in the Shinto, different from emperors and kings in Europe.
He continues a closed event every day.
He has been the Japanese totem which continued as one country more than 2000 years.
Why continues the Pope being succeeded to?
I think that Japanese Emperor has the same meaning.

This is the truth. Its irresponsible to believe that the Japanese way and meaning of "king" is the same as Europeans. The United Kingdom still has a Queen, I don't see people bitching about that.

The King or Queen or Emperor are supposed to embody everything that is good about their culture and give the people hope. Like how the Emperor consoles Japan in times of need, or how Queen Elizabeth was down with her people during the Blitzkrieg.

tokapi

Jun 26, 2008, 11:49

China welcomes first Japanese warship since WWII
by Marianne Barriaux
Tue Jun 24, 1:51 PM ET

ZHANJIANG, China (AFP) - The first Japanese warship to visit China since World War II arrived Tuesday in a dramatic sign of improving relations between East Asia's two major powers.

The 4,650-ton destroyer Sazanami 「漣」, sailing from Kure in western Hiroshima prefecture and carrying earthquake relief supplies, steamed into the port city of Zhanjiang in the southern Chinese province of Guangdong.

Local residents said the port call was a promising sign of warming ties, but amid the words of welcome was an undertone of pride that China was increasingly dealing with Japan as an equal rather than a poor cousin.

"Before, the Japanese invaded us, but now we're gradually accepting them because their attitude has become better," said Wu Peizhi, a Zhanjiang resident having lunch near where the Sazanami was to dock.

In another sign of the thaw, Japan and China said earlier this month they had struck a breakthrough deal to jointly develop gas fields claimed by both sides in the East China Sea.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080624/wl_asia_afp/chinajapanmilitarydiplomacy

http://www.worldjournal.com/wj-inst-news.php?nt_seq_id=1735863

The Chinese navy destroyer, Shenzhen, paid a four-day visit to Tokyo in November 2007 as part of the activities marking the 35th anniversary of the normalization of bilateral ties.

It's also the first visit by a Chinese warship to Japan since 1891.

Jitenchakun

Jul 1, 2008, 05:12

I'm so grateful that my Japanese friends & I can put WWII behind us and move forward into a new age of friendship. That is all.

Kang Seung Jae

Jul 5, 2008, 09:23

I'm one to say that people are milking the incident, just like the "Holocaust".
Yes, there was such an atrocity, but people are going overboard.

AroundTheWorld

Jul 5, 2008, 12:18

I'm one to say that people are milking the incident, just like the "Holocaust".
Yes, there was such an atrocity, but people are going overboard.

Its human nature. The fact that it happened and the fact that people would have the nerve to try to cash in on it (through books, movies, and some Chinese claiming false reparations) are equally disgusting to me.

Then again, most people disgust me. :-)

mael

Jul 16, 2008, 05:53

I say it's typical Zionist (read Jewish) propaganda.

Made in Hollywood and based on re-written history.

Nanking was not nice. I'm convinced it was not a deliberately planned and orchestrated assault on the citizens of Nanking, rather a simple breakdown of discipline due to a lack of senior officers.

Hell! My country, the UK just wins the wars so its dirty deeds are effectively swept under the proverbial carpet.

But believe it if it suits your bleeding irrational hearts. And take heed of the brainwashed Chinese and Koreans who post this kind of affront as a slap in the face for the nation which educated the primitive war-time neighbours of Japan. Maybe this masochistic approach is a welcome relief from the normal monotony of the treadmill?

Me? I'll just scoff at the amusing allegations by the victors in the wars and do the research myself.

anndyhu

Jul 25, 2008, 23:12

Past is not just the past, we can learn lesson from it, Japan would do bad things to China if we are not strong enough. Japanese want the WW2 to be the history, because the guilty mind make them uncomfortable. Chinese suffered great pain in the WW2 because of the aggressive Japanese invader, it's really hard to forget it easily. However, many Japanese people refuse to admite the guilty things and complain about it was the Chinese's fault not forgetting the past. How could we forget it while many Japanese still pround of the war criminals and laughing at our request for apologize, through which we want to make sure that the same thing would not happen again. Japan was not punished enough for the war crimes in China, which is not fair to China. And I think that is why many Chinese people still refuse to forget the history. The victims were not compensated, and the wounded hearts received no relif. I wish China and Japan could be friends and could trust each other, hope the future generations could see it become the truth.