Is buddism a religion or a philosophy?

[pugtm]

i know its considered a religion but is it really? budda if i understand it correctly is just a guy who discovered the path to nirvana. so he's not really a diety...
so is it really a religion or just a good way of living?

[Revenant]

What defines religion? As far as I can tell, most of Buddhism is a philosophy, but with beliefs in karma, rebirth, and eventual nirvana, none of which have any evidence supporting them, I'd say it's a religion.

[Sarapva]

Jesus also was just a guy, like Buddha. Yes, I'd say Buddhism is a religion with philosophies like we have in Christianity. I believe in the philosophy of reincarnation.

[Chi65]

I believe in multiverses, since everybody is one. . .from where some other systems are understandable, if one is openminded enough.

Something tells me, Buddhism has to give up the idea of linear reincarnation sooner or later, but then it is better to be more simple anyhow, as for the basic idea, since people can hardly understand and are easily puzzled and rather unwilling even, at least in the west...

Add some changed time perception, and you get something pretty similar to this multivers idea.

By the way, there are quite some buddhists in the astronomy sections worldwide, thus scientists. But they are also in other places, because their understanding has far less problems with coping than many other religions. As the Dalai Lama said (about), if something proves to be wrong, it has to be replaced.
Now, which other belief etc. has this wisdom?

Christianity for example is pretty stuck in old trousers compaired with this.

[nice gaijin]

Buddhism is not a theism, but that doesn't mean it's not a religion.

[フクイちゃん]

I would say Buddhism is a teaching that Siddhartha and many people have taught to others. Not necessarily would Buddhism be considered as a religion.

[Chi65]

Honestly, I don't care, what its called, its fine the way it is :-).

[Tokis-Phoenix]

There are many different sects of buddhism, some are more religious than others.
What defines religion for me is whether there is actual worship of the idol/god/object whatever involved- taking this into consideration, i think that buddhism is a (primarily) philosophical way of viewing the world, but it can also be a religion too for some people, even though i do not really think this was its original purpose/intention.

[karlyboo]

Depends on your point of view. As an ex-Buddhist I would have to argue that Buddhism is not a religion because a religion must have a deity and generally a set of doctrines which you are encouraged to obey rather than question. Buddha was, in short, a bloke who worked out how to escape the cycle of reincarnation (apparently) and devoted his immortal essence to helping others.

It depends how flexible you're definition of religion is though. I believe it's technically classified as any doctrine/set of beliefs subscribed to by a group of people. In which case Freemasonry and Star Trek could be argued to be a religions and Buddhism would also qualify nicely.

Generally speaking Buddhists will tell you it's a philosophy rather than a religion due to a lack of immutable doctrine and dogma (since questioning your teachings so you can better understand them is encouraged rather than frowned upon).

My worthless $0.02. (~4 yen)

[Mikawa Ossan]

Although I do agree that it's largely about how one defines the word religion, I would have to say that Buddhism in its current incarnation is largely religious in nature.

I think that most sects of Buddhism today do indeed engage in worship or believe in supernatural elements. I will never forget the Tooth Temple in Kandy, Sri Lanka, which enshrines a tooth of the Buddha. Tibetan Buddhism is clearly not purely philisophical in nature, and Buddhism as practiced in Japan is generally Buddhism of the "large vehicle" which incorporates an intermediate device between mortals and enlightenment. Thai Buddhism seems to incorporate supernatural elements as well, at least based on the movies I've seen (sorry, I've never been to Thailand.)

EDIT: I have taken the liberty to edit the thread title to capitolize the first letter and fix the spelling mistake in philosophy. Please let me know pugtm if those were intentional and need to be replaced.

[pugtm]

nope its all good.
thanks for the input

[centrajapan]

Buddhism is a religion and philosophy. Its more a religion because it talks about after life.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Buddhism is interesting, though, because in its original incantation (as best as we can know today), it posits that live is suffering and provides a method for escaping the cycle of life. Nirvana truely is "no place", as when one dies after ataining enlightment, he or she no longer exists on any level.

[Kyoto Returnee]

I think, Buddhism in Japan is more of a culture that has died in many ways, although people adhere to it more for a cultural reason.

In Thailand, I believe it is more a way of life, although different types of Buddhism obviously direct different ways somewhat.

Last time I was at a famous North Thailand temple up in the mountains of Chiang Mai, my Thai friends made me do the different Buddhist rounds and it felt really spiritual.

Their is a certain feeling when you work in Thailand especially when people prey at the office temple on the street corner.

Beautiful feeling.
http://image09.webshots.com/9/6/60/77/111166077aCTuCi_fs.jpg
http://image02.webshots.com/2/5/57/6/111055706VAmzqt_fs.jpg
http://image02.webshots.com/2/6/63/86/111166386YknYtH_fs.jpg
http://image02.webshots.com/2/6/65/19/111166519TzIIVc_fs.jpg

My one time envolvement in Japan required me to throw some money in and clap. This was the Old Emperors temple in Nara that my Japanese buddies father took me to.

[Dimitree]

Jesus also was just a guy, like Buddha. Yes, I'd say Buddhism is a religion with philosophies like we have in Christianity. I believe in the philosophy of reincarnation.
How many people did Buddah rase from the dead ? :blush:

[Mycernius]

How many people did Buddah rase from the dead ? :blush:
Seeing that being a Buddhist involves reincarnation as a belief, until enlightenment is achieved, I would think that would mean every buddhist is raised from the dead.

[nice gaijin]

For any good person you might consider worthy of raising from the dead, from a Buddhist perspective, it would be a step backward.

If miracles are your criteria for worship, I suggest reading into the yogic saints. "Autobiography of a Yogi" and "Living with the Himalayan Masters" are excellent books about adherents' own personal experiences.

[Dimitree]

my reasons for worshiping are as far as it gets from miracles :)
I just wanted to point out that Jesus was NOT just a man as stated :)

[Chi65]

. . .nor is any "miracle" confirmed nor even his life. . .

I can tell you, where to go and in which weather, to make it look as if you walk on water, the very same place, where Jesus was supposed to do so, actually. You can still do it easily, but carefull, its a bit slippery there.;-)

Kyoto Retournee, thanks for the very beautifull pictures! :-)

[Dimitree]

I have enough miracles in my life so i don't need faking some :p

[Chi65]

Hi Jesus! ;-)
(by the way, I join into your comment above, its just, people hardly believe in them. . .
so may everyone have their own miracles, thats the only way to confirm such appearances)

Actually, "he" might not have faked the situation, only the writers later on, wherever they could or were told (or paid?) to do.

People's hunger for sensations never seems to shrink.

[Dimitree]

haha "_" i can't help it !
You seam so confident :)
Thats why i Dare you !

I dare you to fake a story and miracles and so on and so on, so that after 30 years we would count the years saying this is "10th" (for example) year After Chi65 and not 2037 AD :hihi::hihi::hihi:

[nice gaijin]

the Common Era system (BC/AD, or the contemporary BCE, CE) was not created until the 6th century, and was not adopted until the 8th century. So we'd all be long gone before we know if the new age will be named after Chi65 or not :p

And as I said, there are miracles performed everyday by yogic saints, but you don't see people rushing to ditch the gregorian calendar for them. That's not a convincing argument.

[Mikawa Ossan]

This thread is about Buddhism, not Christianity and Jesus, folks! Let's get back on topic!

[Dimitree]

Well i'm not trying to persuade :)
For me some things work and others don't.
One of the things that don't work is trying to imagine that generations of people will gether up a fake story, support it and belive in it :) and not only that ... that fake story will spread world wide and acomudate people from all nations, cultures and so on to belive and support it.
That just doesn't happen :p
Ofc there are many religions around but they just didn't work in my reality check test.
Another thing would be trying to explain that i survived on a mountain top freezing on a almost vertical slope covered with little stones when your body says " you move one nicle and you go down" yet after a short prayer and looking up for just a quorter of a second i see a girl standing 10 meters up from me.Aperantly i was that close to the top :D -- with the sciantific explination that my surviving instinct kicked in and saved me :D.Notice that i sayd my body was telling me that if i move a nicle i will go down ;)

Also in my not so very long life i tryed most if not all of the proposed solutions for my questions and needs and none of them worked exept the Bible one :)
It could be just me but i don't even care.
It works and that's all i need.

And i am sorry for going so far off topic :(

[Sarapva]

How many people did Buddah rase from the dead ? :blush:

I just wanted to point out that Jesus was NOT just a man as stated

I don't really know much about Buddha's life, but in saying that Jesus was just a guy like Buddha, I meant that he was a living flesh and bone person.

[Kyoto Returnee]

.

Kyoto Retournee, thanks for the very beautifull pictures! :-)

Very welcome Chi65:)

You can see some more of my photos here
http://community.webshots.com/user/elli901 (http://community.webshots.com/user/elli901)

[Chi65]

Very welcome Chi65:)

You can see some more of my photos here
http://community.webshots.com/user/elli901 (http://community.webshots.com/user/elli901)

WOW!
That will keep me silent and busy for a while!

Thank you, a fellow traveller, as far as I can see.

(Again, off topic, sorry, but I had to thank him, MM!)

I am not yet in my buddhist pics, but will try to post more, when ready. Then we can compair.
Since I have a favourite in Japan, Fudo. . .which is a very fine story, how to overcome "hell". Later... :-)
(I mean, every religion etc. has some goodies to put into a common bag)

[Dimitree]

I don't really know much about Buddha's life, but in saying that Jesus was just a guy like Buddha, I meant that he was a living flesh and bone person.

Awww ok o-o sowwy ...
Delete my messages please :-)

[Mars Man]

I have trimmed up just a little, and decided to keep other things as they are. I would like to remind everyone that since the thread title is a question of presenting arguments on our positions regarding whether Buddhism's a philosophy or a religion, it would be good to adhere as much as possible to that theme and presentation stance.

Again, if anyone would like to start up a general thread on Buddhism in general, where anything regarding Buddhism goes, then that would be that thread--here we basically just have this rather narrow theme.

I think I have stated my position above, but just to keep the topic going, would ask if we had evidence of Buddhist writings closer than the reportedly 1000 or so years after the fact works that we can discern at the moment?

I mean, if it were true that a thousand years had passed before anything had been written down by adherents to the original movement, how thinkable is it that what could very well have been a philosophical expose of Hinduism, had by then, even become more of a belief-system...with tenet, ritual, and definitive authority in hiearchy?

[Mikawa Ossan]

Many people seem to say that since Buddhism speaks of reincarnation that it's a religion. But reincarnation is not a good thing. It's part of a vicious wheel, a cycle of suffering. Also, reincarnation is not one's "soul" inhabiting another body, because there is no such thing as an immutable soul. In fact, there is no "self" other than the illusion of self that we all experience.

[Chi65]

Of a separate self, I would say, while we are taught, that in reality we are interwoven.
And there are some that realise this (the eightfold path is a good example, loss of ego, but gain of insight of being part of the whole).
As such reincarnation simply is another state to work out former mistakes, under which we all suffer, thus it has to be cleared, and someone takes the job.
Seen as a worldwide net, some buddhists even found representants of this knowledge in other also western countries.
Its an inner red thread that tells you, where to go. I was often wondering, how these informations work, but it can be compaired with hyperlinks in the brains after having collected even unconscious messages, but its not unknown by myself in all these years, as for the surprising "appoinments" with "remarkable" people. No watch nor plan could be as perfect as this, as it always showed afterwards. and if yoou trust this, your life is full of wonderfull surprises. We would say, "God" told us, but its not just our "god", its all around the globe. A big network, that is faster than any manmade plan.
You just have to relax and "let it be". Its equal to what we artists say, "it paints by itself".
Native indians have a pretty similar way of thinking about the globe as a whole interwoven organism and need to clock to be "in time" to be somewhere originally, etc.
BTW, its interesting, that the invention of the fixed times in Japan is pretty young, to my knowledge, after the WW2 even.
Thus people have an organic time as much as an intuitive knowledge ("inner red line").
And if you are aware of the similarities in different cultures, you may well get the signs of something or someone reincarnated, with other words, continuing such a "red thread", which would be more correct.
Not that I via science would be able to explain this, but it clearly works.
I had many such things myself during my travellings.

[Mars Man]

Many people seem to say that since Buddhism speaks of reincarnation that it's a religion.

Which causes me to ask, 'did it originally have anything to say about that, or was that worked in later?

While I think, Chi65 san, that there may well be room for correcting some points in the ideas you have presented, it would best be for another thread. And if there were any way that I could encourage you to use the block style rather than the old book indention style, I would surely do it--encourage you, that is. Do you like cake? How about a bottle of rice wine? Or a hug and a kiss...anything to encourage you !! (hee, hee, hee.....)

[Chi65]

When you edit for corrections, the space in between often seems to go away. Dunno why, I tried it a few times and do make writing mistakes quite often...

(lets see, if it works now)

But I take the offers;-)

And I think, compairing beliefs explains a lot, once you start doing so.
But never mind.