Whale Love Animation

[centrajapan]

This is an anti whaling animation done by Greenpeace Japan.

http://www.whalelove.org/en/animation/

While I think this is a great video I am against anti whaling. Sarapva will probably like this animation.

:-):-)

For me it is not so much that I want to eat whale meat but more the idea that I believe people have a right to self determination and I value human beings higher than animals.

[Sarapva]

Thank you, centrajapan! I do really like that video. And the fact that it's from a Japanese person makes it even more meaninful. I have to say that after reading some of the latest posts here, this discussion has taken a nice turn to more informative and respectful discussion.

Two thumbs up for the whale video! :clap:

[Derfel]

Bleh, thought there would be at least some moe... no traces.

[Chi65]

Interesting indeed, and I forgot all about this incident, when a whale helped humans.
Also for long, there were good books about whales in general, plus their songs etc.
Thus in a way, it surely is all also related to the fact, that humans tried to understand these animals with more respect.
And animals in general, that we find a relation to or remind us on ourselves.
Only, if we then stop eating animals, as veggies, its right, it is difficult to say, even for Buddhists, where the borderline is.
But this is not a veggie-thread then.

And it might not even be possible to find an answer that satisfies everybody.

For example, all the efforts for getting the bad reputation of and prejudices about the wolves repaired, they nevertheless, when free, can become a real threat again, even if not directly to humans, as lately feared in Wisconsin to my knowledge. Yet I learned to love them, knowing that without being hunted, they are lovely animals, that even tend to like humans very much. (Ever got a kiss from a wolf?) We could not have our dogs without this.
While infected animals with "Tollwut"(whats the english name for this?), no matter which one, is surely dangerous, not just the howlings around fullmoon, but the lack of control over murderous insticts, while the instincts itself are OK.

But they are a different story alltogether, since a whale is not a hunter in the same sense (or maybe some? Information, please).

And we should stop eating from nature alltogether in the last consequence? Could be after all. I am not yet sure. But we are a part of THIS planet's system and probably rather have to find out, in which way we humans in general are as much a threat to the global balance, even more than any animal maybe. Of course, I have to ask myself the same question.

My mum once said, that nature itself creates desasters to get rid of "too many" of us,
(in which way there will be no difference made between humans and animals and more either).
Thats also, what the Dalai Lama says his way.

It is a good sign, if we at least start with some respect for other creatures than just ourselves, and its a kind of natural psychological thing (no value thus, just a statement from experience) that we start with those, who either helped us or are somewhat close to us.
A position that talks about higher or not, is questionable for me and reaches far into traditional belief systems, thus manipulations and according prejudices on many sides.

What I can see, is this:
Who respects intuition in general, and wishes to come back(back?) is probably more pro animals in general, simply to learn from them to survive beyond too many words.
Thus, if there are some species, that have become of value via "teaching" us about undervalued and thus -developped functions, "we" may prefer/tend to protect them and thats maybe a simple sign of these times. That has nothing to do with racism, I rather tend to think, that its also a kind of racism, to put such ones down, who also just wish to learn and balance and live in peace with the rest of the creatures, where possible.
(My goodness, imagine now, Green Peace against dog eatings and cat eatings etc., and that may well be on the way)

All sides have their reasons, and they should be seen all the way round, as said before.

I know, its not easy, for no one. . .

[Sarapva]

Yes, I think this is where a lot of us are now on this planet - wondering if, since we protect some animals, should we protect all animals? I think that might be why some animal rights groups don't distinguish between different kinds of animals. But yes, there have been stories of whales, dolphins and porpoises helping people. I've heard stories of dolphins nudging people back to land when a storm is coming.

I think it's a good idea to practice empathy with all living things. We are the humans on this planet - to some that might mean we can do whatever we want with any animal or plant, but I think it means that we have a responsibility to protect and take care of the earth and its animals and plants. Instead of being dominant, we should be caretakers.

I think the English word for "tollwut", Chi, might be "rabies" - where dogs or racoons can get infected and they kind of go "mad". They have to be killed then before they kill others. Dogs and cats all have to be vaccinated against rabies here.

[Chi65]

Yes, thanks, that was the word, I just couldn't remember. It is as dangerous for people, to be bitten by an infected animal. And especially around fullmoon the danger was even higher to be bitten. And I suppose, since the wolves preferred that time for partly scaring howling, it even added to the myths and devil-projections.
The naive indians for example don't see it this way, many love and highly respect(ed ?)wolves (and all other animals). But they cooperated much more with nature anyhow, even when hunting, they did it with respect once and even thanked the hunted one for giving themsleves, so to say..
And some siberian bear-cults came from hunting, but equally respecting and worshipping an thanking them. Thats just another way of getting it into the right perspective.
If (!)whale-hunting has such a spirit, what can I say then. but I do have some doubts nowadays, as for the already explained reasons. But doubts are not confirmations of only one side. Just food for thoughts, no more, no less.

My grandfather, a forestier and thus also hunter at times, kept saying, if a deer came in front of his gun, he "wanted" to be shot. Well, thats not exactly what I think, but he always did it for meals or if a desease was apparent. Probably also, when some became a real plague, like rabbits or so.
He loved his animals very much! But also watched the cycles and balances.
He would never have liked mass deer holding or the like.

And if I hear "harvest" in relation to living (!) beings, I shudder, because that was the word for mass-slaughter of native indians once, and they also used this word for mass-killing of jews here. Its very suspect for me then. It smells like being very near to "human material"-thinking, in general. . .because it was used in the same context.

[Sarapva]

I agree - the word "harvest" should only be used in relation to crops, not living beings. I can only imagine the horror that must have been during WW2 with the Jew massacre.

Yes - it's only when killing animals becomes industrialized that populations are threatened. Hunting for subsistence means that a few people will only take a few animals for their own survival. The commercial hunting, taking hundreds and thousands, is what causes damage, and then changes people's thinking. Instead of living harmoniously with nature we dominate it - and then destroy the earth out from under our own feet.

[centrajapan]

The Nazis did not harvest the Jews to eat so that comparison is outrageous. It is a harvest as long as you eat or utlize any types of food.

[Chi65]

No, sorrry, thats no excuse, the point is: it shows, HOW you value someone/something.
The next step in this thought is "human material". And one must not eat something, "use" is a better word, be it for manipulations. (You don't eat wood either for example). There are many translations possible.
What about the rights of underdogged whales for their culture?
Oh, they are just whale material??
I see, thats exactly what I mean. . .

The Nazis DID call a certain killing campain harvest, believe it or not, same in the US, as mentioned before. It was the name of the campaign, and don't forget, the Japanese were quite close to the Nazis those days, hoping to find partners and being accepted as whites, even if not arians (which must have been pretty tricky, as we know)!
Thus some terms are still surviving from that time, with similar thinking backgrounds, when said.
Its common knowledge and only really outrageous, because it is still used in such a way.

[centrajapan]

It also shows how you value other cultures and people. But we have talked about this before and we only seem to go in circles.

[Chi65]

You mean, how You value, since you used it on another thread, not me. . .

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35145&highlight=harvest

I see no circle in this either, sorry.

[hazama]

and don't forget, the Japanese were quite close to the Nazis those days, hoping to find partners and being accepted as whites, even if not arians

Information about U.S-Japan diplomacy can be easily found in Japan but it is hard to find a book about German and Japan relations of the past in Japan. So may I ask you a question (sorry for my poor English, I hope I’m not being rude to you)? Did you mean Japanese government at that time was close to German government (Nazis)? Or did you mean majority of Japanese were close to Nazis but not close to ordinary Germans?

What I am trying to say is ‘’Nazis’’ is basically a name of a political party and ‘’Japanese’’ is a name of an ethnic group so using these words as an equal seemed strange to me.

>accepted as whites, even if not arians

This I didn’t know…Is it possible for me to find a source on the internet (in English)?

[Chi65]

Information about U.S-Japan diplomacy can be easily found in Japan but it is hard to find a book about German and Japan relations of the past in Japan. So may I ask you a question (sorry for my poor English, I hope I’m not being rude to you)? Did you mean Japanese government at that time was close to German government (Nazis)? Or did you mean majority of Japanese were close to Nazis but not close to ordinary Germans?
What I am trying to say is ‘’Nazis’’ is basically a name of a political party and ‘’Japanese’’ is a name of an ethnic group so using these words as an equal seemed strange to me.
>accepted as whites, even if not arians
This I didn’t know…Is it possible for me to find a source on the internet (in English)?
Well, I have not yet checked the internet, but we have direct contact with people, who know more, since I am in the german-japanese society. I have problems to remember the details. The Japanese had early contacts here, via governmemt mainly, very much especially with the earlier prussians already, thus via Berlin.
The Japanese have been here before the Hitler regime, therefor they took a lot from our old schoolsystem for example.
When my mother lived in the Hitler regime, she had some japanese doctors around a that time, in Jena.
You might find something about Mori Ogai too, but he might have been here before that time.
I will check, but its a bit too late today. OK?
It may be stuff for a new thread thus.
Its a difficult theme, because the older Japanese ones still somewhat tend to relate to old images about Germany, while the younger ones are not so fixed on these stories, partly don't even know them.
But the German-Japan exchange has been quite vivid for long, and I can sort out what comes from what.
There also is a strong acceptance, and general respect (with only few exceptions) and liking of the Japanese by the Germans, not just via Manga etc.

[hazama]

I understand. I didn’t mean to take up your time.
I think why Japan took side with Germany during WW2 was because Japan needed an ally and not because Japanese felt sympathy for Adolf Hitler’s policies (although it is also true that he was a popular politicians among some Japanese --and maybe among some Americans). Most of Japanese didn’t even know that they were described as an inferior race in Mein Kampf.

But as you said, maybe this should be disccused in other threads.

[Dutch Baka]

A very nice video! Cute and impressive.

I hope they will show this on national TV, although I don't think that's going to happen... because it's all about money anyway. snif

[Sarapva]

Yes, Dutch Baka, that would be good to have it on television. Maybe on public stations (nonprofit)?

[Chi65]

I understand. I didn’t mean to take up your time.
I think why Japan took side with Germany during WW2 was because Japan needed an ally and not because Japanese felt sympathy for Adolf Hitler’s policies (although it is also true that he was a popular politicians among some Japanese --and maybe among some Americans). Most of Japanese didn’t even know that they were described as an inferior race in Mein Kampf.
But as you said, maybe this should be disccused in other threads.

Lets rightly say, they both wanted allies, for different reasons, but some were the same. . .and had a long history behind.

I will try to open another thread next week, because its an interesting theme (even if I am german and may have to speak against some of my own country).
This weekend will be very "packed", but I will try to find more, and in english, if possible.
Just keep in mind, you are not forgotten, OK?

[centrajapan]

The GP video ignores that there are over 80 whale spiecies. There is no such thing as a whale.

Here is a TV show about whaling where Greenpeace was invited to the show but declined the offer. Then there is a debate. And the American guy is anti whaling and asks various questions but him being pretty much alone on his views get pretty much shredded by the rest.

The show also says whales eat more fish than humans. If whales are only protected the eco system gets out of balance.

One man who is a whaler says Greenpeace is violent unlike what they say to be and tell them to take a hike. While he believes the earth is fragile and that GP has alot of good points about the environment but not when it comes to whaling.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=L-qjaqE0JAE&feature=related

Here is Japan´s GP president on TV.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ah8BHN7DE&feature=related

[hanachan]

Lets rightly say, they both wanted allies, for different reasons, but some were the same. . .and had a long history behind.

I will try to open another thread next week, because its an interesting theme (even if I am german and may have to speak against some of my own country).


Hallo CHi!
Please call me when you open the thread.
:wave:

[hazama]

Just keep in mind, you are not forgotten, OK?
Thank you Chi65.
I’m looking forward to see your new thread but you don’t have to hurry.

[Chi65]

Oki Doki, I will let you know. (off for a little journey now)

[Kyoto Returnee]

One man who is a whaler says Greenpeace is violent

"One man who is a whaler says Greenpeace is violent"
Is he serious!

[Chi65]

Every stopper is said to be violent by the one who is stopped from being violent.
Only that trick does never really work and usually only speaks even more against the first violating one.