North American Culture - What do you think?

[MadamePapillon]

While the idea for this thread came from an older topic (disagreement) this thread is not meant to build on any argument but rather to stand alone as a seperate topic.

Quite a few times the subject of N. American culture (or lack therof) has come up and while I disagree that we don't have a culture I'm interested in the rest of your opinions on the subject.

Relatively speaking, N. America (being both the US and Canada) is a fairly new country, having been only truly established about 300 years ago. Even so, it's people come from old countries such as Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Poland, and, of course, Africa. This has resulted in much interbreeding among different people and a blending of the old cultures, resulting in people identifying with numerous historys and creating (as has been stated many times before) a cultural melting pot.
Myself, in addition to being white, black and native on both sides of my family, there is an intermingling of the different nationalities of those races to the point where I am completely in the dark about the majority of my roots, and my features are such that people think I'm everything from European to Asian. The only thing I'm certain of is being French...and, ironically, I have a French name, both in real life and on this forum...hmm :blush:

So, does that mean I am cultureless...or does it mean I have a claim to more cultural background than most? That is the heart of this issue. Does being N. American mean we have more or less culture because of all the intermingling?

Old traditions are often not celebrated but for some reason old stories of Ancient Greece and Rome survive, we don't wear traditional homeland clothes but many know and identify with Ancient Germanic and Greek mythology. A family may have spaghetti one day and quiche the next.

It is a definite mish mash of the old world but does it count as being a culture?

As for the more modern, it's hard to identify but to be certain many of the modern things you see stemmed from N. America but rather than staying here and becoming unique to us they were almost immediately exported across the world. So does it really count as our culture when half the world has it to?
Does rock and roll, pop, hip hop or jazz qualify as our cultural music? Or do blue jeans and miniskirts qualify as ours. How about the different technologys and medicines? Or our government policies?
Where is the line drawn between what we have a claim to culturally or what is public property of the world?

....So, bottom line, do you think N. America has a culture or has everything we would have had a claim to turned into public property, and if so, what is the future of N. American culture with the rise of globalization?

[tokapi]

N American culture is little muddy at this moment due to infusions of non-European peoples & non-Western cultures.

There is a newly coined cultural idea in the US ... salad bowl ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_bowl_(cultural_idea)

[Goldiegirl]

Christmas time was always a time when I noticed that we all celebrated differently. My family put our shoe out for St. Nick and I thought everyone did that. I guess that is from perhaps the Danish side of my family? So I think that we all retain parts of our previous heritage, although I never researched the whole "shoe" thing for St. Nick. Also food is a big part of culture. My family loves pork and saurkraut dishes, pickled pigs feet (YIKES!), braunschweiger; which are foods from the German side of our family tree and then corned beef and cabage, turnips, from the Irish side and beer, which covers all sides! :)

[MadamePapillon]

I've never heard of putting out a shoe for Santa (St. Nick), Goldiegirl. We always did stockings, with the traditional turkey dinner.
We always had a lot of steak and potatoes, shepeards pie, fried chicken (of course), and homemade stews. I'm not sure where most of that comes from but my sister is starting to get into making traditional southern recipes.

And, Tokapi, there is some confusion with the sudden mass asian immigration. I know it's certainly changing Canada as the two groups are very different from each other.
In fact, I remember a scandal that happened a few months ago where a Korean man refused to renew the leases of several locally owned buinesses so that they would have to leave to make room for soley Korean owned buisnesses. I'm not sure if it was resolved or not but that comes back to that "Salad Bowl" idea. I think the majority would be opposed to it as it implies that all people of different cultures would stay seperate and not bother integrating into the rest of the local population, and everyone knows situations like that only breed hostile feelings among both sides.
While nobody is expecting them to give up their cultures there is a certain expectation that immigrants will do their best to fit in and live along side the rest of us rather than retreating into their own bubble communities.

Anyways, slightly off topic but it's a definite concern in places with high immigration like N. America.

[Doc]

Our culture will be the death of us. That's how I feel about North American culture.

-Doc :wave:

[Sarapva]

So, does that mean I am cultureless...or does it mean I have a claim to more cultural background than most? That is the heart of this issue. Does being N. American mean we have more or less culture because of all the intermingling?

This is a good question and something I think most North Americans deal with, having ancestors that have come from different countries. I've traveled across the U.S. a few times, and even in each state there seemed to be a different culture. Just slight differences in attitudes or way of interacting with people, and even different accents.

My father is American and my mother is from England - I always felt in the middle of both of those cultures. I think what is probably happening is that our culture is being redefined all the time. I think even every family has a different culture, and then even every individual.

[scorpion da black]

the reason why the word culture is used to describe the norms and traditions of a nation is because it is same as planting ...farming...
crops take time to be made...and it also need effort..that is where the word cult comes from.
the American society has not been around for long time compared to the ages of other nations..so i would say the American society is still in the process of making a culture of its own. but it is harder than other nations since America is a society of multi racialism, multy faith..etc..
imagine how much time it would take to melt them all in one pot

[Clawn]

My mother's side of the family is entirely Polish, and my father's is Danish through and through. However, I've always experienced more Danish cultural nuances than Polish, mainly because my father was born and raised there. My mother was raised in an army family and went to a private Catholic school, so most of her culture comes from the cultural diversity of the armed forces and some of the morals of her Catholic upbringing. However, I believe that there is plenty North American culture. In fact, it seems to be so popular that things like rock and roll and blue jeans have spread across the world.

I do believe, though, that as globalization takes its hold on the world, that our various cultures will become less and less profound. Whether that's a curse or a blessing is still up for debate. :wave:

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I lived 1½ year in America, near New York.
I have very often been in New York of course. What attracted me in the U.S. was ( as Clawn mentioned) the rock and roll music, the Jazz. I found most of the Americans quite open and interested in others. I did noticed that I was found a very relaxed person and even while I was dressed like any other woman in America, it was still very clear that I was a European to everybody and that surprised me.
I really didn't like the "Time is money" attitude. I know New York is a very big city, but still.
I once crossed the Fith Avenue while I was day-dreaming so I didn't notice that I had to to wait before crossing.
I just walked on while the cars started driving and then I stood still in the middle of the Fith Avenue. I turned around towards the cars and the one in front of me stopped and so did all the cars behind him. Nobody yelled at me, people in the cars that passed me just looked at me as if I came from another planet. When I could walk on, I quickly thanked the gentleman in the first car that stopped for me and went on to the other side of the Avenue. There was a policeman waiting for me. He asked me if I was blind or something and asked me where I came from. From Holland. Then he told me that he had never seen anybody so calm standing there with all those driving cars around her.
Nobody was angry just amazed. In Holland I would have received a bill and many people would have pointed at their foreheads to make it clear that I was crazy.

The assortment of food, was a paradise for me. One finds the ingredients, the seasons, the vegetables and fruit for all recipees in the world. Really fantastic!

A negative culture in America in my eyes was; Everything is bigger and better than anywhere else in the world"

I know extremely little about Canada, but I guess that some things are quite different from the States, somehow.

[MadamePapillon]

I don't think that globalization is such a big threat to culture as many people seem to think it is. This is just coming from my experience mostly in Canada but by all reasoning, with all the many peoples of vastly different cultures and habits, many people would have expected the country to be swept away in the tide.
I think the opposite is actually happening. Our culture is certianly being influenced by others, especially by asian culture lately, but I think this has actually created a stronger sense of cultural identity and a desire among many people to not only rediscover where we come from but to start carving out our own niche in the world.
I'm not sure how the same would work with people of an already well established culture like Japan, I'm not sure if they would have the same resilience and flexibility that N. America has in that area. People of old cultures tend to be very resistant to change and get very defensive if they percieve a threat to their way of life. I suppose globalization would be a scary prospect to them.

And Sarapva, I agree with you. It's funny visiting the different states because some of them almost feel like their own county within a country, especially the southern states. We are more individualistic here so there isn't much, if any, pressure to choose between our different backgrounds, we are allowed to take bits and pieces of each and make it our own or to even choose one and go with it.

@ Doc : Why would you think N. American culture will be the death of us? Do you mean in terms of lifestyle, attitudes, consumption? That's pretty vague.


(On a funnier note, a list of the Happiest People on Earth. I thought it was interesting and wanted to share it with the rest of the class :cool:
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=news05_july29_2006)

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Thank you for the list of the Happiest People on Earth!

Do you also know that Denmark and Switzerland, on top of this list, don't want to many foreigners from outside Europe, coming to stay in their countries?

[centrajapan]

If Danes are the happiest people on this planet then how come Denmarks suicide rate is high?

Americans Are World's Most Patriotic People, National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago Finds

The United States was followed by Austria, Canada, Ireland and New Zealand in the average ranking of two national-pride scales: the National Pride in Specific Achievements scale, which asked questions related to pride in achievements in 10 areas, and the General National Pride scale, which gauged people's assessment of their country's national identity and purpose.

Americans, with a score of 38.5, rated their country tops in political influence, economic performance, scientific and technical accomplishments, and the ability of the armed forces. Canadians, with a score of 37.5, gave their country the highest rating for democratic values, while Austrians (36.5) rated their country at the top for its social security program.


http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/98/980630.patriotism.shtml

[Clawn]

If Danes are the happiest people on this planet then how come Denmarks suicide rate is high?

Perhaps, in their blissful state, the people of Denmark become so overcome with joy that they lose all ties to reality and inadvertantly kill themselves in their happy convulsions? Just a theory, but it holds promise, no?:p

I don't think that globalization is such a big threat to culture as many people seem to think it is.

Many people in countries where industrialization came late or the general populace has little contact with the outside world feel that Western European and American culture is overtaking their own. They see local shops put out of business by the powerhouses of Wal-Mart and McDonald's. They see a different style of dress overtaking their young people and the languages they had learned as children being forgotten in favor of English. Things like this give rise to much "bad-blood" between many "western" countries and people in nations in less developed areas such as parts of Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. These people feel their way of life is being torn apart and replaced by one that they see as strange and, in some cases, uncivilized. This has given rise to many groups and factions that wish to stop globablization, and some of them are violent.

In short, it doesn't matter if we don't think globalization is an issue, there are some who feel its is a big threat to their way of life. And, essentially, globalization is the spread of "western," aka. American, influences.

Which brings me back to the topic at hand. (knew I'd get back here sooner or later) Perhaps the original issue of North American culturelessness has something to do with the fact that North Americans have spread their influence so far and have so little else to compare with that our culture seems undistinguished and, at times, non-existant.

[centrajapan]

Perhaps, in their blissful state, the people of Denmark become so overcome with joy that they lose all ties to reality and inadvertantly kill themselves in their happy convulsions? Just a theory, but it holds promise, no?

haha.Could be.

The North American and European cultures are quite similar. It was after all the Europeans who emigrated to North America. Its probably most similar to UK. But the Scadninavian culture share lots of similarities to the UK culture and the German, Dutch. ALl in all. Its not as if I as an European go to USA I will find my self in a deep state of a culture shock, deer stare in the head light look.

You guys are probably more patriotic than Europeans. It looks like it from my perspective. North Americans dont go around killing each other over sports games. I think they have come further than Europeans on that front. But in other areas not. Such as human right violations and stuff like that. Well I guess Canada is known to be a humane country.

[Sarapva]

It's interesting to think about things from this perspective - I've never thought before about how the North American culture is diverse, whereas in some countries there hasn't been a lot of immigration or mingling of different cultures. This does throw some light on how westerners are perceived in eastern countries, and how countries like Japan could feel threatened by the western influence.

[MadamePapillon]

In short, it doesn't matter if we don't think globalization is an issue, there are some who feel its is a big threat to their way of life. And, essentially, globalization is the spread of "western," aka. American, influences.

Which brings me back to the topic at hand. (knew I'd get back here sooner or later) Perhaps the original issue of North American culturelessness has something to do with the fact that North Americans have spread their influence so far and have so little else to compare with that our culture seems undistinguished and, at times, non-existant.

The fact is that this wouldn't be an issue of people from other countries didn't buy into it. If they are truly serious about protecting their own cultures and ways of life than McDonalds and Starbucks wouldn't have a customer base there.
The fact that those companies can set up shop and flourish in other countries is testament that there's is a big market for it. I'll bet you anything there's people who whine and complain about how America is taking over the world while at the same time buying a mocha latte and wearing Calvin Klein jeans.

But I think you hit the heart of our 'culturelessness'. It's not that we don't have a culture but that our culture is everywhere, being blended into countless other countries to the point where everyone is confused about what is ours and theirs, if is can even be called that anymore.

It's funny because wasn't that the ultimate goal from the start. Why missionaries and cultural ambassadors were being sent out for years and years. It started with Britian trying to convert everyone to christianity and make the world more like them...I guess you could say we're finishing the job, and the rest of the world is eating it up faster than a 1/4 Pound Cheeseburger. :relief:

[Chi65]

Little sidemark, once it was mentioned, the shoe outside the door on the night to the 6th of december, and if possible polished well, is an old habit in Germany. I grew up with it.
No idea, where this comes from.
Also we celebrate christmas on the 24th in the evening, by the way. No stockings hanging around then, except some washed ones ;-)

[centrajapan]

Mc Donalds and Starbucks is not exactly quality is it? Hip hip hooray for North American culture. Mass popularity does not mean quality. After all Britney Spears and Spice Girls sold millions of records. In Japan I did not hear anyone who thought US was coller than Europe. But that could be because they were kind to me as me being European. Yoroppa suki. Amerika kirai was something I heard many many times.

As for pop culture. In Tokyo there is a big techno scene and most techno comes from Germany, UK, US, Scandinavia, Canada, France. And the best fashion brands are European and the uncool furniture Ikea Swedish and the coolest design Danish.

It seemed as if Europe had a better ring than USA.

As for Xmas. No stockings in Scandinavia either. And Xmas in Scandinavian is called Jul a pagan word. And presents are opened after dinner on the 24th. Santa is called the Yule Elf. St. Nicolaus was some Dutch or Germand dude.

[Goldiegirl]

I don't think culture is commercialism. I don't live in a Starbucks. I drink their coffee. My family has different values, relgion, and we eat different food and celebrate our holidays in a different style then my neighbors. I have Indian neighbors and they aren't even closely like my family. So what then is my culture and what is their culture. The only thing we have in common is that we live in the USA.

sorry, I just had to add this. centrajapan it's obvious that you can't stand the USA so why don't you just post "I hate all Americans and their country." No matter what anybody says to you, you will always disagree and can't seem to see there is more going on here than in any other country. We have the most mixed society that there is. We have people literally from every country living here. Not too many countries can say that. So I can't respect your arguments because they are all based on hatred and not intelligence.

[centrajapan]

Stop putting a label. I dont hate USA. Its just that I dont think its that great either. I think the US government is really stupid and the American public to be equally as stupid for electing that government. But just like anything else. US has its good and bad sides.

Be good if you guys stopped being so overly proud of your country and stopped killing innocent civilians.

[Goldiegirl]

That makes me laugh you don't hate the USA but the government is stupid and so are the American public. Thank-you for proving my point! Arigato!

[scorpion da black]

i regret to tell you that the first colonists were criminals given lands to establish a new world in plantations like Virginia....
and most of them are linked with Indian massacres

that is a heritage that is not be proud of...
but a lot of Americans are to be praised for realizing the faults their ancestors were doing and atoned to that through being an example for multi cultural tolerance...

of course there will always be radicals and racist fascists ...it is note easy to wipe all the racism America knew before the sixties ....and Bush centrajapan my friend is one of them....the new conservatives are all racist radicals...and they are adopting an Ideology found in modern US since president Wilson was in power

[Goldiegirl]

This is supposed to be about North American culture. I would assume that means today's culture not the culture of the American colonists. Let's get back to the issue. Bush is not the sole North American culture. The United states is full of cultures from all over the world. And as long as you aren't a cannibal, or criminal you can be whatever you want and celebrate what holidays you want. In Canada there is Quebec that has a very French feel and they speak French. There's no French speaking around me, that's not my culture. Also there are native people in Canada like the Inuits, who are in Alaska too, I am sure they live very differently from me and yet they too are Canadian and American. I suppose it's hard for people who have limited views because their countries aren't a mix of people. It must be hard to understand how different a country can be from one area to the next.

[centrajapan]

Why do you have to sing the national anthem as often as you do? I just find it to be strange. Before each sporting event you sing the national anthem. Is it because you have to keep reminding yourself that you guys are American? Why do you put your hands in front of your heart? God Bless America. wa wa wa. I saw this baseball game in US and they had war planes flying over and some dude singing the anthem and then telling what a great nation US is and people worked themselves in a frenzy. Weirdos.

North America is not diverse. You all speak the same language and there is not much difference in accents. In Europe you drive for 5 hours in car and you experience 4 languages and 18 dialects which is more different than any North American English accent. It is not THAT diverse.

The Native American culture not thriving. Most of them live below the poverty line in warn down refugee camps. Alcoholism and suicide is shy high. You have the most people in prison per capita in the world too.

Not much freedom of press either compared with the European countries or Japan. Its not bad but its not that marvelous either.

[Sarapva]

Before each sporting event you sing the national anthem. Is it because you have to keep reminding yourself that you guys are American?

:giggle: This is one of the sub-cultures! I don't like sporting events at all.

You all speak the same language and there is not much difference in accents. In Europe you drive for 5 hours in car and you experience 4 languages and 18 dialects which is more different than any North American English accent.

Europe probably is more diverse in languages and accents, but if someone from the U.S. north goes to the south (or vice versa), they have a hard time understanding what anyone is saying!

posted by scorpion da black:

that is a heritage that is not be proud of...
but a lot of Americans are to be praised for realizing the faults their ancestors were doing and atoned to that through being an example for multi cultural tolerance...

Thank you, scorpion. I think we've come a long way, though of course it's still not a good situation for Native Americans. We still need to work harder on that.

[centrajapan]

Europe probably is more diverse in languages and accents, but if someone from the U.S. north goes to the south (or vice versa), they have a hard time understanding what anyone is saying!

Some Americans are really easy to relate with while others are completely impossible to figure out. Its just that I dont agree with anything they say where as other Americans are so easy to get along with. The same type of humour but some people. Good god. Weirdos. In that sense US is diverse.
I dont like the current US politics though and I hope they snap out of it soon.
US got good music, movie, entertainment culture.

[Goldiegirl]

Well it sure would be hard to be a country if we all spoke a different language, wouldn't you agree? The United States has more languages mixed in, we just all speak English (sometimes Spanish) so we can all understand one another. I don't speak Hindu to my neighbors and my Jewish neighbors don't speak Hebrew when out and about. We do need to have some unity which makes for some clarity. The Unites States is as big or bigger than Europe imagine a country that large and having 30 or so languages. How would you even post a street sign. Jeezzz......

[scorpion da black]

i know about that sarapva san
i have read a great deal about how natives live and it is a shame that they cant live in Honor on their own lands or at least what it is left of it
it is enough of an agonizing fact that they have to live as citizens in a country that confiscated their lands..their original lands and changed everything about their way of life

[Goldiegirl]

We all need to get out of the past and live in the present. I feel bad that Indians had their land taken from them, but that has been going on for thousands of years. There is not one country that is original! What has that got to to with my culture NOW!

[Mars Man]

NOTE ! There has been too much off-topic here in this thread once again. I ask that we keep it in line with the theme, and that those discussing put more than just opinions out on the table. People, this sub-forum is Serious Discussions, and that adjective does NOT mean 'serious as in the degree of emotional heat,' but rather 'serious as in academical standard.'

Centrajapan san, I am asking you publically here to either stay much more closely on topic in this thread, or not to post here anymore !! That is a warning !!


As some surely have come to realize, and as MP san (if I may shorten that for now) has touched on the understanding--which is very fair academically--that 'culture' can be seen to be a social-construct idea. As Pinker debated in book The Blank Slate--the Modern Denial of Human Nature it may well be a matter that can have a degree of value attached to it, however the substance of the concept is that there is an overall, general activity of a bonded social group from which and by which that group can be distinguished.

In this manner of looking at the concept 'culture,' the conclusion is that of course North America has a culture, just as the Inuit have a culture, Quebec, LA, and Zip City have cultures. As for the theme of this thread, that is what we are looking at, and that is what we are giving our opinion of. I think there is a lot more to be studied about what makes up the North American Culture, and tend to think that overall, it may be more fluid than the overall cultures of most other large social groups. (taking North America as a single social group, of course)

[MadamePapillon]

I think there is a lot more to be studied about what makes up the North American Culture, and tend to think that overall, it may be more fluid than the overall cultures of most other large social groups. (taking North America as a single social group, of course)

I'm surprised because it's such a rich subject yet very rarely talked about. All across N. America you will find such vast and different cultural differences (yet at the core very similar). From the Mexican/Spanish influences of the southern US, to the hip hop culture of the East Coast and the African slave and Cajun influences of New Orleans. Then you have the French influence of eastern Canada, the British and Native American influences of the west and now the Asian and Indian influence of both western and eastern Canada, then the large Native and Inuit culture of Northen Canada.

The whole of N. America is like one big culture study.

Why do you have to sing the national anthem as often as you do? I just find it to be strange. Before each sporting event you sing the national anthem. Is it because you have to keep reminding yourself that you guys are American? Why do you put your hands in front of your heart? God Bless America. wa wa wa.

Nobody can deny Americans love being American and have no problems showing it. However, I'm sure you'd be surprised to know that many Americans don't even know their own national anthem by heart. I found that shocking when I lived there as over here we are taught the national anthem until we know it forwards and backwards and sometimes in French (when I was in school we had to sing the national anthem at every school assembly and they had the words in English and French on two giant plaques in the gymnasium :relief:)
America is surprising in it's lack of education in both it's own country and the rest of the world. The fact that so many don't know their own national anthem is just the tell tall sign of bigger problems, such as the lack of focus and thought in it's education system...but that's slightly off-topic and probably should be saved for another thread.

[MadamePapillon]

i know about that sarapva san
i have read a great deal about how natives live and it is a shame that they cant live in Honor on their own lands or at least what it is left of it
it is enough of an agonizing fact that they have to live as citizens in a country that confiscated their lands..their original lands and changed everything about their way of life

This is one of those issues in N. America (especially in the US) that is difficult to talk about because it is one of the darker periods of N. American history (right along slavery and witchburnings, but those are primarily the doings of the US).
Looking back now most people would agree that we did the Native Americans a great wrong...however, it can't be denied that we are here to stay, we all have to share this land.
It's complicated because despite all evidence to the contrary, the Native people have, in some ways, contributed to their current situation.
They live tax free, have control of many casino's, have special hunting and fishing rights among other things. Yet many refuse to leave their reservations and rejoin the rest of the country, they form communities with enormous alcohol, drug, and prositition problems and basically live off of welfare....at this point we can do no more, it's up to them to pull themselves up. They are free to leave the reservation, whether they choose to or not the rest of us can't be blamed anymore.

[Goldiegirl]

There are about a million native indians in Canada so please let's not say it was just the USA that took land etc. I still fail to see what that has to do with the culture now except that they are their own people and are proud of their history and culture.

[MadamePapillon]

I said it was an issue in North America but most especially in the US.
Native Americans aren't as bad off in Canada as they are in many parts of the US, we are fairly open about the issue and in several parts of the country their culture has melded with our own. In fact, the mascots for the 2010 Vancouver Olympics are inspired by their myths and legends.
In contrast, the US is very closed lipped with talking about Native Americans and the subject, in many places, is still taboo to the point where a lot of people wont reveal to others that they have Native blood. Trust me, I lived in one of these places.

It has relevence to modern times because even now we are influenced by Native culture and it continues to remain a subject of debate (to this day) among many people as to if they are fairly treated or if they have to many special privileges. It's, in my IMO, an essential part of any North American culture discussion.

[Goldiegirl]

I don't see a collective culture in North America. I see many different cultures living between 3 countries, namely Canada, Mexico and the USA.

Please, there are just as many issues with "native Canadians" in Canada as much as the USA. It is just another way Canada tries to look better. Better talk doesn't make the situation better. I am not going to post uprisings bewteen the Mohawks and the Canadian Military over their land being taken to make golf courses or the like. It's fruitless. The native Americans here where I live are hardworking. They have the ability to run casinos to make money and they make A LOT! They donate plenty of money to the local communities which makes them valuable to society here.

As I have said before, I don't think there is one true and steadfast North American Culture. I think what makes this part of the Earth unique is that there are many cultures represented and what is very great indeed is the fact that you can be any culture and live here. If there was one true culture we wouldn't be arguing it then would we? We would be in agreement. I was checking statistics, which always have to be taken with a grain of salt, and in my state about 59% of births are from foreign born parents. That's amazing, and it's even greater in states like Texas, California, have foreign born birth rates well into 150-200%. So please, I just can't see the united culture that we supposedly have...

[centrajapan]

Americans are more religious than Europeans and Japanese in general and more proud of their nationality. But as many has said North American culture has spread to various parts of the world.

If US could become more like Canada I think Ill be less angry. I couldnt care less if Mc Donalds, Calvin Clein, IPOD is American.

I tend not to buy products because where the brand comes from.

[Goldiegirl]

Religious, that makes me laugh! How little you know! I think it's ok to be proud of your nationality, if you aren't why does your country participate in the Olympics? If you don't care about your country why live there? That's what I don't get. I like where I live, I don't like all things, but it is my choice to stay. I have the freedom to move or stay. So what it wrong with pride in your country, I don't walk around waving a flag. I don't even own one. Canada is Canada, Mexico is Mexico, and the USA is the USA. We are all different. I find it incredible that in one sense you want the USA to be more diverse (such as we don't have many languages like Europe as you wrote) and then in the next breath you want us to be the same as Canada. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

[centrajapan]

he United States remains among the most religious nations in the world, according to a worldwide study by the University.

About 46 percent of American adults attend church at least once a week, not counting weddings, funerals and christenings, compared with 14 percent of adults in Great Britain, 8 percent in France, 7 percent in Sweden and 4 percent in Japan.

Moreover, 58 percent of Americans say they often think about the meaning and purpose of life, compared with 25 percent of British, 26 percent of Japanese and 31 percent of West Germans, the study says.

http://www.ur.umich.edu/0304/Nov24_03/15.shtml

I dont think it is bad to be religious. I was merely pointing out a fact.

[Sarapva]

As I have said before, I don't think there is one true and steadfast North American Culture. I think what makes this part of the Earth unique is that there are many cultures represented and what is very great indeed is the fact that you can be any culture and live here.

That's true - we're still the "melting pot"! I think we're probably all a mix of other cultures - European, Scandinavian, Asian, Hispanic, etc. And then in each town or city those parts are "melted" even further into its own version.

[uchimizu]

Hi,

here is my short opinion on this complex topic. North America for sure has a culture: in the 20th centuries, some of the best books and movies were written in the US. Furthermore, America was not created from scratch in the seventeen century. It inherited most of West Europe's cultural bagage (most of all the Christian faith), West Europe having inherited it from Greece and the middle east.

Also, while we europeans are proud of our old traditions, a visit to the middle east is quite humbling. Roman Era is usually the oldest in West Europe's history, but in the middle east, it is considered recent, having come after the Greeks, the Persians, the Mesopotamians, the Egyptians and probably a few I forgot.

What may be different according to me is the fact that America has been a growing power for the last 3 centuries, and did not yet encounter decadence and regression as all the other parts of the world have. In Europe and elsewhere, we can see ruins of failed empires in our backyards, ans we know no material good or political power lasts forever. Maybe this is why we value culture more, as books and songs are usually the only things that remain after an empire has felt.

[Goldiegirl]

Going to church does not make one religious. I could answer that I go to church weekly, and that would be true, but don't care one bit about religion. I just go to keep peace in my family. I can say that about 3/4 of the people who are there...they are sleeping, there snores are their testimony. Also, as I have pointed out, polls mean very little, they just represent a small sampling of people. It's funny that I read all these polls and statistics and I have yet to ever have been asked for any responses, just who do they ask? So I would caution anyone from reading to much into any poll, or what statistics say. Numbers are easy to distort.

As for the USA not experiencing decadence and regression you must have forgotten the decade of the 80's and all of its glamour and the yuppies and the great depression that started in the late 1920's. The USA has gone through it all, but in a much faster way, our history is condensed.

As for saying Europe has culture because of books and songs, that is just down right unthoughtful and doesn't have any merit. I would like to point out a few authors that you might know. Poe, Hemingway, Thoreau, Hawthorne, Emerson...to name but a few. As for music, do you remember Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Ella Fitzgerald, perhaps they aren't hundreds of years old, but they still count.

We all are unique people. What is the point to argue who has more or less culture? We all have culture. We all have our own culture and it means different things to you as it does to me. That is it. To say that all Europeans have the same culture is just like saying China and Japan have the same culture, it's offensive. Its' offensive as a collective and offensive as an individual. It's ok that we are all unique. The things that connect us are simple. Our need for shelter, food, family and friends, a job, all these things make us more alike than we are different.

[MadamePapillon]

Going to church does not make one religious. I could answer that I go to church weekly, and that would be true, but don't care one bit about religion. I just go to keep peace in my family. I can say that about 3/4 of the people who are there...they are sleeping, there snores are their testimony. Also, as I have pointed out, polls mean very little, they just represent a small sampling of people.

The majority of the true religious, church-goers are from small towns. America has tons of tiny little towns with populations of 5,000 and under and usually the people there have the options of either going to church or doing drugs to keep busy. Also, the South is very religious, then, of course, there's the bible belt. It's not called that for nothing.


In Europe and elsewhere, we can see ruins of failed empires in our backyards, ans we know no material good or political power lasts forever. Maybe this is why we value culture more, as books and songs are usually the only things that remain after an empire has felt.

Europe definetly does have a leg up when it comes to stuff like ruins and legends on the cultural scale. Most countries outside of N. America have fallen testaments to the past. Even South America, though the Spanish eventually took over the way we did with the Native Americans, the Mayans and Incas had built enormous structures and temples that remain today whereas the Natives didn't. So they, as well, are surrounded by the past.

It's true in some ways that Europeans (and everyone else) seem to value culture more but I think it's really a matter of perspective. The countries that appear to value culture more, what it seems to me is that they are holding on to the way things used to be. They place great importance on the past. In N. America, we tend not to have that attitude. We remember the past but we don't try to keep it in the present. I think we are more willing than many of the old countries to let time move on and not try to keep old traditions alive or try and ritualize anything.

This gives the impression of a place with no past and no culture but the reality is that, as I said before, we remember the past but we don't cling to it like some countries do.

[Sukotto]

Until only the last couple of years when I first saw references to only Canada, Mexico, and the US, I'd always considered those three, as well as the Central American countries to be North America. Taking from geography, I guess. North America. South America. And Central America was a part of the north, only that these countries could also be placed in a sub-section called "central".

Now that people are finally starting to recognize Spanish as the 2nd language of the US, as it has been a "native" language (not exactly, but go along for sake of argument. true native are the indigenous) since the annexation of Puerto Rico and the conquering and theft of 40% of Mexico;

And with economic integration with Mexico (at least on the corporate level) since NAFTA (and other policies which enthrone and expand privileges between countries for the legal construct called the corporation), which are direct causes of emigration of people from their home countries (nafta allowed US agri-business, which was heavily subsidized, to be able to dump corn into the Mexican market, causing poor farmers to go bankrupt and search for jobs in the cities, rippling out into the US);

And since culture (at least real culture) isn't created in corporate marketing rooms, it is very interesting to see what N America (at least the area I live in Wisconsin) will look like in 10 years from now. There have been many German immigrants here a century ago with many schools that taught classes in German. This ended mostly with WW1 as Germany was an official enemy and Germans were demonized. Some places have passed "English is the official language" resolutions and criticized ESL classes for children of immigrants, not knowing their own history of loyal American German schools.

I think it would be wild if we (in the US at least) were to all learn Spanish as another language. Some factories around here actually offer classes to learn some Spanish. Maybe we'd be able to see each other more as human and be less likely to allow (US) gov't to get away with such things are arming death squads or propping up dictators that operate in the interest of those above mentioned corporations which are the ones that push for and primarily benefit from the likes of NAFTA.

A future NAmerican culture could be less hierarchical among groups of people. One place hierarchy has no place being applied - ever. And money (or technology) does not make one "blessed" as a better either.

[uchimizu]

Hey,

thanks for answering my message. Actually, I fully agree that the US have culture, and as I said, some of the best 20th century stuff was produced by Americans (many writers you quoted here, I could add Faulkner, Blues and Jazzmen..., many Hollywood directors from the 50s and 60s, maybe I would not put Sinatra and Elvis in that list, but this is just my opinion).

However, I still think America did not experience yet a real "fallen empire" experience, although the 1930 were the closest thing from it probably. By it, I am meaning the country occupied by foreign troops, big cities looted, your president brought in chain to another country, becoming a backyard of history for several centuries, the end of your political system major starvation. Just look at what happened to China between 1850 and 1970. What the Chinese people endured is on another scale than the 1930 recession.

So maybe I think people who remembered being part of fallen empires have a slightly different approach to life. Maybe they value more cultural goods, and a little bit less power and material success, because they know the cultural stuff is the only thing that lasts.

Would be glad to hear more opinions on this idea. Have a nice sunday.

As for the USA not experiencing decadence and regression you must have forgotten the decade of the 80's and all of its glamour and the yuppies and the great depression that started in the late 1920's. The USA has gone through it all, but in a much faster way, our history is condensed.

As for saying Europe has culture because of books and songs, that is just down right unthoughtful and doesn't have any merit. I would like to point out a few authors that you might know. Poe, Hemingway, Thoreau, Hawthorne, Emerson...to name but a few. As for music, do you remember Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Ella Fitzgerald, perhaps they aren't hundreds of years old, but they still count.

We all are unique people. What is the point to argue who has more or less culture? We all have culture. We all have our own culture and it means different things to you as it does to me. That is it. To say that all Europeans have the same culture is just like saying China and Japan have the same culture, it's offensive. Its' offensive as a collective and offensive as an individual. It's ok that we are all unique. The things that connect us are simple. Our need for shelter, food, family and friends, a job, all these things make us more alike than we are different.

[Derfel]

Before culture, we are individuals. An intelligent American person is pretty much the same as an intelligent European or Asian person, and an European ***** is the same as an Asian or American *****. Why argue about culture? Especially now that it isn't exclusive, it belongs to all of the world, everyone, and a country that wouldn't have and teach anything but his own history, literature, and other arts would sink quite low in a couple of years. Be open to the world, don't label anything yours, or alien. Simply research what you wish, what catches your attention, and everything will be great.
Those who wish to bicker and complain... let them, what can you do about it? Probably they have amassed a huge load of complexes, let them sink or swim.

[centrajapan]

Americans like to think they are in the middle of the universe. Only in America would they call something World Series without inviting the world.

[Goldiegirl]

he New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Oh and just in case your forgot one thing about the World Series being American, the Canadians have teams too! :)

[centrajapan]

Its hillarious. World Series. They should call it North American Series. That would be correct. World Series is a misleading term. Its simply wrong.

You never have Europeans calling themselves World Champions in football for winning their domestic league.

[Goldiegirl]

Well if that's a big complaint why don't you do something about it? You could start a petition and get all the Europeans to sign it and send it off the USA. If that is one of your complaint, it really is silly and simple mindedness. I suppose Milwaukee shouldn't have a "Summer Fest" because summer happens all over the world?

[centrajapan]

It just proves my point that they think they are the world. Most people think they are a part of the world.

[MadamePapillon]

@Centrajapan

America is not the only country in the world that is arrogant and self absorbed. IMO, China is far worse on the 'self-righteous' scale, and the Middle East is far worse in proclaiming themselves to be the best and always right.
Maybe it seems this way for those who have very little real life contact with the US but America is at least able to point a finger at itself and recongize it's own flaws. It's a very transparent country so all it's mistakes are visible for the rest of the world to judge and comment on, unlike so many other countries that hide their mistakes and portray a false image to the world in order to look better and keep face.

[Pachipro]

When speaking of "North America" one has to include Canada, the US, and Mexico as those are the three countries that comprise what is known as "North America". Unfortunately many people only include the US while completely ignoring the other two countries.

Does North America have a culture in and of itself? I don't know as, outside of Mexico, many cultures and people dot the lands. As Goldiegirl pointed out there are many Scandinavians, Germans, etc in her part of the US. In the Northeastern part of the US you will find mainly Canadian-French names and communities and in New York, California, and Chicago you will find predominently communities of other countries.

In any major city of the US and Canada you will find small pockets of communities of Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, French, Italians, Muslim, Russian, etc, etc where the majority of that culture lives and where the language of that culture is predominant.

Canada and North America are basically a "melting pot" of various cultures that interact and intermix amongst each other while all speaking a common language, English, for major transactions like a drivers liscense, etc. But even that is changing.

So, is there a basic predominant so-called "North American" culture that one can call it's own? I don't think so as what is truely "North American" that is not based on another culture? Food? No. Music? No. Clothing? No. Customs? No. All are derivatives of, or a mixture of, other cultures.

Much like the Japanese do, North America "borrows" from other cultures, changes them to suit their needs of the moment (while keeping the basic ingredients) and makes it "their own". Heck, most of the popular TV shows today are based on European programs.

Besides the oft used phrase "As American as Ma and apple pie" what is truely North American in it's own right and unique only to North America? Music? Some like jazz and rockabilly maybe; American football? Maybe; but what else? I would be interested in hearing from others on this. What one, or a few, things can people point to and say, "That is North American?"

Anyway, within three years the North American Continent will be melded into one country, with one language and currency. Then it may not matter anymore to us as it will then be for our children and grand-children to decide what is North American culture. What will the answer be then? I figure it will be vastly different than what we write here.

[Sukotto]

I forgot the countries of the Caribbean and Greenland, besides
mentioning those of Central America (marked with a * below).

Since we're talking a geographic area, specifically a culture of that area.
I don't see how we can exclude the other countries.
(Except maybe one or two that are sometimes considered to be a part of
South America.)


Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
*Belize
Bermuda
the British Virgin Islands
Canada
Cayman Islands
France Clipperton Island
*Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
the Dominican Republic
*El Salvador
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
*Guatemala
Haiti
*Honduras
Venezuela Isla Aves
Jamaica
Martinique
Mexico
Montserrat
Navassa Island
the Netherlands Antilles
*Nicaragua
*Panama
Puerto Rico
Saint Barthélemy
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Martin (France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
San Andrés y Providencia Department
Trinidad and Tobago
the Turks and Caicos Islands
the United States
the United States Virgin Islands

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_countries

for dividing North America into different regions with various reasonings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subregion#North_America



Apparently "North America" is a UN subregion that consists of Canada, the US, Greenland, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, & Bermuda.
In a decade or two, unless the fascists win or we get our human made legal constructs - the corporations - under control and not allow these things free reign over the major economic decisions, the UN will have to redraw this subregion as Spanish & English will be used throughout.

MadamePapillon, in the starter post, makes a mistake and calls North America (US & Canada) a "country". It is not a country. Unless she is using a different definition of a "country" other than the one that I know which means a sovereign state.