The Hunt has started & so has the chase!

[Kyoto Returnee]

Well guys, the Aussies are pursuing this to the end and good luck to them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7178257.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7178257.stm)
Let's hope we eventually see an end to the barbaric slaughter of whales by Japan for "scientific purposes".
:keitai:

[Sarapva]

If they can save even one whale, it will be a victory - best of luck to the Oceanic Viking, The Sea Shepherd, and Greenpeace!! :emblaugh:

[Chi65]

It plans to kill about 900 minke whales and 50 fin whales by mid-April 2008 as part of what it calls a scientific research programme.

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now!

And killing for that reminds me on other real bad methods, with other animals plus humans. Combined with using a word like "harvest" it only makes me vomit.

[centrajapan]

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now

The only way Japan can hunt whales is if they conduct scientific research. The reason why IWC was established in the first place was so that countries and people could harvest the whales without making them go extinct.

Countries who become members of IWC sign a declaration that they will work towards the best interest of the whaling industry in accordance to scientific numbers. Therefore. The problem lies not with Japan but others for opposing Japan.

[Chi65]

That was not meant with my question. . .

[Sarapva]

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now!

This is the whole controversy - Japan wants to hunt commercially, but can only get permits for scientific research. But everyone knows those numbers are commercial hunting in disguise. This is the reason Japan is having "company" out on the sea!

[Chi65]

I know that, I mean it more like a symbolic question. . .since its obviously a fake to cover other interests...indeed.
. . .and not racism related ones, as some fanatics wish us to believe either.

[Astroboy]

This is the whole controversy - Japan wants to hunt commercially, but can only get permits for scientific research. But everyone knows those numbers are commercial hunting in disguise. This is the reason Japan is having "company" out on the sea!

I disgree with you.

Long time ago, whaling was banned by IWC because of number of catch and disappearing whales. So "Protecting species of Whales" was subject. It was not either research or commercial.

When whales increased in the ocean, anti-whalers said "commercial" is a problem, but research is possible.

Today anti-whalers says "ecology" is a problem, or "whale is cute" or "because Inuits are special" "Norway and Iceland are not Japanese".

As I said, anti-whalers (mostly Westerners) always change the rule in order to justify their claim. This is very hopeless to Japanese, and only hatred remain.

Probably Japanese wish never be attained because Whites are still majority in this planet and ruling this planet.

And this is the same root in the conflict between West and Middle East.
Australian and othet anti-whalers are lucky because Japan is modest and they know Japanese are always stepping back when they speak "Loud".

However, others (other Asians/African) look different. Future must be interesting.

[Chi65]

I wish, someone would explain more properly, what "scientific research" in this really means, in detail, what kind of accepted research, and is there really one and why there are so many whales needed. That still sounds awkward to me, sorry to say.

By the way, in the "west" there are also people that think, that many Chinese, who have spread out all over the world, are much more a leading force than the whites, even if not on the surface, be it like sleepers. . .their strong family ties work all over the planet. Since Dshinghis Khan there is also a subconscious fear of the "yellow race" in the european part at least, easily transported to America as well.
(I am kind of blue eyed in this and "embrace" other "colours" and influences as an artist, but had to learn, that these hidden levels very well exist in many).
Just to keep this additionally in mind, dear astroboy. Fear can grow strange flowers, on all sides. But they can as well be pointless on the scales. :-)

[Sarapva]

I wish, someone would explain more properly, what "scientific research" in this really means, in detail, what kind of accepted research, and is there really one and why there are so many whales needed. That still sounds awkward to me, sorry to say.

The scientific research is a decision by the International Whaling Commission (IWC) to study whale populations, etc. I don't know all the details about what's done in the research, but here is a link to the "Scientific Whaling Permits" page from IWC:

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm

Since the ‘moratorium’ came into effect after 1986, Japan, Norway and Iceland have issued scientific permits as part of their research programmes. In recent years, only Japan and Iceland have issued permits. Recent discussions have centred on accusations that such permits have been issued merely as a way around the moratorium decision; these have been countered by claims that the catches are essential to obtain information necessary for rational management and other important research needs.

As part of their response to the decision for a pause in commercial whaling, some member governments have implemented major research programmes which may include the sampling of whales caught under special permits which the Convention allows them to grant.

posted by Astroboy:

When whales increased in the ocean, anti-whalers said "commercial" is a problem, but research is possible.

This has all been decided by the countries who belong to the IWC, including Japan. It's not just "anti-whalers" "telling" people what they can or can't do - it's countries voting on what decisions to make.

[Chi65]

And that "scientific research" needs the kill the amount of "900 minke whales and 50 fin whales" ?? Those regulations to me are more like throwing sand into the watcher's eyes under the given circumstances.

I can't help. Its kind of unbelievable. . .

Particularly if you consider some whales for sure just been eaten or sold, at least those who do this should not mix up with any research program rules to give the usual child another name nor complain about any commity rules as long as they are travelling under their flags.
They clearly should allow and always be prepared to be watched at least. If not, there is something very foul. . .

[Sarapva]

Particularly if you consider some whales for sure just been eaten or sold, at least those who do this should not mix up with any research program rules to give the usual child another name nor complain about any commity rules as long as they are travelling under their flags.
They clearly should allow and always be prepared to be watched at least. If not, there is something very foul. . .

Yes - they should be prepared to be monitored under these circumstances. This is the reason for the disapproval of Japan's whaling - too many whales, and whale meat being sold and eaten even though they were supposed to be for research.

[caster51]

too many whales, and whale meat being sold and eaten even though they were supposed to be for research

You should eat if it rots it.
http://www004.upp.so-net.ne.jp/teikoku-denmo/graphics/cg/shironagasu.jpg

http://www.whaling.jp/english/index.html

[kame]

Japan is the only whaling country that still has a tiny bit of faith in IWC, hoping that someday IWC would return to its original mission. If anti-whaling nations will blow that hope away by taking the reasearch whaling away from Japan, I think Japan has no choice but to say final sayonara to IWC and will go their own way with Norway and Iceland.

I don't think that would be a good senario for the whales, but the Japanese government is too far invested in whaling and definitely not ready to give it up just yet. Scientific whaling has been an unwritten political truce between Japan and the rest of the IWC for a long time but the rather naive new Australian administration decided to breach it.

[centrajapan]

While I think Japan has every right to whale it is also due to their incompitence in the negotiation process that there is such strong anti Japan sentiments. I am not sure exactly why Norway dont even have to request for a whaling quota yet Japan is getting hammered for sceintific research.. I think it was because Norway lodged an objection to the whaling ban in 1990 or so while Japan didnt because they didnt want to be too controversial. Now for not objecting it has back fired on Japan.

[kame]

I think it was because Norway lodged an objection to the whaling ban in 1990 or so while Japan didnt because they didnt want to be too controversial. Now for not objecting it has back fired on Japan.

Exactly. But if Australia thinks they can pressure Japan to totally give up whaling, they are totally miscalculating the situation. First of all, Australia is not the US. If they think they can pressure Japan like Americans do, they are pathetically overestimating their influence.

Americans are good at coarsing Japanese into doing what they want, but they know enough to push the button when they should. The US government is not willing to risk US-Japan relationship on few thousand whales Japan hunts as long as they call it is for research, when they can't even tell their citizens to stop hunting endangered whales.

A politically savvy move for the anti-whalers was to maintain the formal restriction on Japanese whaling and let them call it what they want. Australia is trying to push Japan off the cliff now, which could totally undermine the IWC-led control regime which was dysfunctional but has served more to the anti-whalers' interests than those of the pro-whalers. Very naive and politically stupid move.

Just so you know, those ugly youtube movies (from both sides) are getting quite a lot of attention in Japan, especially among younger people. Nobody in Japan had really seen those brutal kangaroo slaughter videos, and hardly knew that they were killed in millions every year until the naive Prime Minister started talking like the head of anti-whaling NGO/NPOs. That really hurt the public image of Australia, which I am sure will have a negative impact on tourism.

[centrajapan]

Exactly. But if Australia thinks they can pressure Japan to totally give up whaling, they are totally miscalculating the situation. First of all, Australia is not the US. If they think they can pressure Japan like Americans do, they are pathetically overestimating their influence.

The Australian government is pissing me off to tell you the truth. Basically it is due to their imperialistic, close minded, emotional arguments they think they can pull it off. No scientific or environmental justification.

In a way I hope this escalates. To start boycotting each other in trade. Japan having a much greater economy and Australia being more dependent on Japan than visa versa. Make Australia go bankrupt and they can go walk about Waltzing Matilda.

A bunch of racist fanatics. Really close minded.

Australians kill kangaroos for fun and they say. Ah, the whales are great animals. It could be because they are afraid that Japan will import less meat. Whale meat can become a direct threat to their un eco beef business.

Japan should have lodged an objection back then. Iceland even left IWC at one stage and then there was world wide boycott. The biggest non incident in world history.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Greenpeace has caught up with the whalers and has em on the run:clap:

Hopefully with all the international pressure, Australia and the US included, we will put a stop to this:122:

[Chi65]

I am with Greenpeace in this here, not with those who project onto others, what they are themsleves. . .
The amount of whales for "scientific research" is much too high and thats a fact.

[centrajapan]

I did not know you guys supported violence. Thats quite scary. If people are against whaling they should do that by coming with argument rather than violent tactics. People should have a right to disagree but people should distance themselves from using violence.
I thought Greenpeace was a non violent organization. Due to violent tactics by groups like Greenpeace the IWC came with a resolution condemning these acts of terrorism.
RESOLUTION ON THE SAFETY OF VESSELS ENGAGED IN WHALING AND WHALE RESEARCH-RELATED ACTIVITIES

WHEREAS the safety of vessels and crew and the order of maritime navigation are, and have long been, the common interest of nations worldwide.

MINDFUL of the fact that issues relating to confrontation between vessels at sea and in port have been discussed by this Commission as well as other international fora including the International Maritime Organization.
RECOGNISING the fact that domestic and international concerns have been expressed concerning confrontation at sea and port relating to whaling and whale research activities.

SERIOUSLY CONCERNED that dangerous confrontations risk human life, property, and the order of maritime navigation, and may lead to grave accidents.

http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/resolutions/resolution2006.htm#2

Not only is Greenpeace using violent tactics but they are trying make Japan use violent tactics. They are using violent tactics to provoke Japan into answering Greenpeace in the same manner.

Thats what Hitler did too. And you support them. Fanatics.

[kame]

Hopefully with all the international pressure, Australia and the US included, we will put a stop to this:122:

Good luck with that. US will never risk its relationship with Japan on just a thousand whales. It's just not worth it. Australia may jump ahead and regret its consequences.

[centrajapan]

Please explain again. Chi.

By the looks of things US is siding more and more with Japan n the whaling issue as they probably will vote in favour of Japan resuming a commercial hunt. The African countries will start joining IWC and they too are in favour of a sustainable hunt of a natural renewable resources.

The only thing Australia and Greenpeace can do is to use violent tactics in return.

[Chi65]

No, I did at length, but you keep on ignoring and using violence
in words and twisting meanings into the opposite.
Maybe you should read the forum rules?

[centrajapan]

Why do you support violence? You said you support Greenpeace. Please explain.

[Chi65]

I do not support violence at all, thats why I now support them.
And if you just read back, you know why.

[centrajapan]

RESOLUTION ON THE SAFETY OF VESSELS ENGAGED IN WHALING AND WHALE RESEARCH-RELATED ACTIVITIES

This resolution came due to Greenpeace using violent tactics against the Japanese whaling vessel in the IWC meeting.

[Chi65]

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now!
And killing for that reminds me on other real bad methods, with other animals plus humans. Combined with using a word like "harvest" it only makes me vomit.

to repeat myself. . . . . . . . .

[Rose Selavey]

Just so you know, those ugly youtube movies (from both sides) are getting quite a lot of attention in Japan, especially among younger people. Nobody in Japan had really seen those brutal kangaroo slaughter videos, and hardly knew that they were killed in millions every year until the naive Prime Minister started talking like the head of anti-whaling NGO/NPOs. That really hurt the public image of Australia, which I am sure will have a negative impact on tourism.

I thought I should let you know the slaughter of Kangaroos has been getting a lot of press in Australia too, and the situation in some states (in which a lot of illegal killing was happening), will be coming to a stop/under investigation. The public in Australia (the majority live in the Suburbs not the outback) once aware are against the slaughter of kangaroos. This is all because of pressure from people who care, things like petitions, and international outrage is healthy and a good thing. It is about time that people all around the world think more critically about what they eat and where they go for a holiday, maybe this would help stop over consumption.

[kame]

The youtube video war is now being covered in the mainstream media in Japan. As far as the propaganda war between Australia and Japan, it's kind of funny that the make-shift low quality video uploaded by some anonymous citizen is practically having as much if not more influence than the governments.

As far as the propaganda goes, I think the youtube video is far more successful than the comments made by the Australian officials. It shed light on the darker side of Australia that Japanese people hardly ever care to notice. Combined with other media coverages like the angry protests at Japanese consulates in Australia and its PM publicly attacking Japanese whaling, I know for sure that Japanese people will think twice before traveling or go studying in Australia. They are very sensitive to safety when it comes to traveling overseas.

On the other hand, it has been no secret for more than a decade that Japan hunts whales in oceans around the world. Damage caused by the naive Australian government is relatively minimal. If anything, it actually helped to fuel the intensity of the pro-whaling sentiment in Japan.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Why do you support violence? You said you support Greenpeace. Please explain.

C'mon - Torturing and ultimately slaughtering 1000 whales in the name of "Scientific Research" is hardly violent, I think it points more towards genocide.

[Chi65]

Like the "harvest" of the jews and native indians etc., just a very small step further and you have the according mentality. well, I am informed about certain things in Korea, or better Manchukuo, it equaled our german genocide in more than one point. . .
By the way, the original culture(!) in Taiji said, that a certain very small amount of whales for own use would be alright, but if more, it would bring bad luck, so they said in the video and that I can very well believe. . .it will fall back on them, one way or another, thats for sure. Its a natural law. And they cannot say, that they did not know it.
But thats not only for the whaling, nor only for Japan.
But additionally regarding the very bad slaughter-habits, its completely out of proportion there now, and thats the theme here.
To relate it all to eating habits or offence to racism is a big bad joke. I just can't believe it any more.
(That does not go towards Japanese people in general, not to confuse things)

[centrajapan]

Are you guys vegeterians? I would say it is much worse to kill 1 million cows a month than a thousand whales a year. Not to mention. Australia´s leading environmentalist says the japanese whale hunt is sustainable and whale meat is more eco friendly than producing beef, pork or lamb.

To mix Holocaust with Whale hunting shows what a racist mind set some people have.

Fanatics.

[centrajapan]

Chi. You seem to know very little about whalig and seem to have a very judgemental attitude towards whaling. I wonder why it is worse to eat whales than pork or beef?

The IWC emerged to make sure that countries could utilize whales and make sure whales would not go extinct. To make sure the hunt was sustainable. How many whales should be hunted should be according to scientific findings. Stock numbers. The greater the uncertainties is stock the less whales should be hunted.

Due to uncertainties in stock numbers Japan agreed to stop hunting whales. The whaling ban came in effect in 1986 and would be reevaluated after 1992 or 3. By that time it was clear that the whales Japan wanted to hunt were not endangered.

In the 90s Japan decided to launch a scientific research programme. What Japan researched on was how many whales Japan can hunt and make sure the population does not decrease and the effects it had to the eco system.

All countries who conduct a commercial hunt conduct a scientific research programe first. Once they find out that it is possible to carry out a hunt without making the stock decrease countries start hunting whales using a whale management scheme called RMP.

Since the whole point of IWC is to let countries harvest whales at the same time make sure the population does not decrease. By voting against Japan those countries are not doing their jobs at IWC. They are sabotaging the IWC because they look at whales as some special animals.

As far as the environment is concerned there is no reason for why Japan should not be able to take 1000 whales from a stock of 1,000,000 whales.

Despite Japan hunting 1,000 minke whales the population is increasing each year. And producing whale meat is more environmental friendly than producing beer, lamb or pork.

[Sarapva]

This is from Greenpeace.org - the Greenpeace ship "Esperanza" plans to use peaceful interception methods to keep the Japanese whalers from harpooning whales.

Activists will drive inflatable boats between the whaler's harpoons and the whales while using high-powered water pumps to create a curtain of icy water, obscuring the harpooner's view.

We will never do anything to endanger the Japanese vessels or crew. We will, however, use all peaceful means at our disposal to stop the killing of any more whales.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-confronts-whaling-f

[centrajapan]

Its a lie. Just like everything else on this whalng issue presented by Greenpeace. Had they not been endangering lives of the whalers would IWC never have come with a Resolution in the first place. IWC consists of anti whaling countries too. ANd the resolution was passed on by 24 votes to 2. Something like that anyway. There were 2 voted against and the rest voted in favour. My bet is that the 2 countries voted against were Australia and New Zeland. 2 anti whaling fanatical countries.

[Kyoto Returnee]

This is from Greenpeace.org - the Greenpeace ship "Esperanza" plans to use peaceful interception methods to keep the Japanese whalers from harpooning whales.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-confronts-whaling-f

Fantastic!

The world needs more organizations like GREENPEACE.

Hope the whale killers don't turn violent and start to harpoon the Green Peacekeepers.

[Chi65]

Are you guys vegeterians? I would say it is much worse to kill 1 million cows a month than a thousand whales a year. Not to mention. Australia´s leading environmentalist says the japanese whale hunt is sustainable and whale meat is more eco friendly than producing beef, pork or lamb.

To mix Holocaust with Whale hunting shows what a racist mind set some people have.

Fanatics.

Back to sender, who started the racist theme fanatically, do you have a mirror over there?

And the other post needs no answer, since you constantly ignore my points plus have been lying yourself so often now.. .
I am 100% sure, Greenpeace would not. I know some VERY honest ones here for years too and their stories and points.
And they will not give up at all, worldwide.

[Chi65]

Disgusting ones may fit more here for those extreme whalers and dolphin-killers.
They violated their very own culture of staying in harmony and respect towards the riches of the sea.
And their own elders said themselves, that it would bring bad luck, if not. . .
Its finally their own problem to have to face them to be right.

[centrajapan]

Thanks to modern Japanese technology the whale killers are able to kill whales more huamanly than before. Compared with any wild animal the whale hunt has much stricter guidelines. Why dont you just say. I think whales are magnificent animals so they should not be killed. But the Japanese can still kill deer, cows and pigs because we in Germany do it too.

[Chi65]

Blind yourself, not others, who have seen already.