Help with unpoliteness levels

[ハダカ]

Well, I've heard and read a lot about an unpolite things, beginning from だ　replacing です　and ending somewhere near ぜ,　ぞ,　まれ.. you get a point :) Oh yeah, and of course, my favourite きさま!

[nice gaijin]

I think you're confusing "casual" with "impolite."

[NattyBumppo]

I'm sorry, what are you asking?

[ハダカ]

I wanted to ask if anyone is acquainted with Japanese rude grammatics, not casual.

[nice gaijin]

for the most part, politeness depends on context. Speaking casually when you should be polite is rude. For the most part, the examples you gave are just casual or masculine. Except nobody uses 貴様/きさま seriously anymore, at least that I've ever heard. And まれ?

The dangers of learning Japanese from anime?

[ハダカ]

For example, I want to tell person to go in rude manner, like "GO, you $%^#$", not like "Please go, mister". Must look like 　行きまれ or smth. ?

[NattyBumppo]

There's a very rude verb form where you add ーやがる to the です／ます stem form of a verb, like so:

何をしやがる！？
What the hell are you doing?!

いつも壊れてやがる！(shortened from 壊れていやがる)
It's always breaking, the piece of ****!

何を言いやがった？
What the hell did you say?

Also, I have no idea what this まれ thing you keep talking about is.

[ハダカ]

Can you repeat that in Hiragana plz.?
まれ? I tell ya! I know there is a way to force person to do something! And まれ must help me with that! Or not? Tell me.
And how I might use ぜ　and ぞ particles in unpoliteness?

[NattyBumppo]

Can you repeat that in Hiragana plz.?

なにをしやがる！？
What the hell are you doing?!

いつもこわれてやがる！(shortened from こわれていやがる)
It's always breaking, the piece of ****!

なにをいいやがった？
What the hell did you say?

まれ? I tell ya! I know there is a way to force person to do something! And まれ must help me with that! Or not? Tell me.
No, seriously, what the heck are you talking about? I don't know what word you're talking about.

And how I might use ぜ　and ぞ particles in unpoliteness?
Use them instead of よ at the end of exclamations. They give a rougher, more masculine feeling to the sentences.

[Charles Barkley]

Natty--I think he just wants confirmation rather than being asked to repeat himself. So perhaps this would be more helpful: there is no such verb ending as まれ. It does not exist. There is a rudish, abrupt way to issue commands, and that differs based on the verb: for U-group verbs, you change the last syallable into an え sound, and for ru-group verbs, you drop the ru and add ろ.

ie, やめる becomes やめろ and
だまる becomes だまれ

You probably saw damare or something and assumed that the まれ portion held a special significance on its own, when in fact it does not.

Also, why try to learn how to say things rudely? If you are angry at someone in Japan, you probably will never use these forms. Unless you are a kid or are ragingly drunk or are imitating anime characters. If its for fun, go ahead, but in terms of language learning, a waste of time, especially at the early stages...

[magevampjoe]

まれ itself means 'rare' I believe...

Why do you want to learn how to be rude to people anyhow?

[ハダカ]

Look at ocupation in my profile. It says "Admin". So I'm working as administrator in the internet cafe, so I need to know all the methods I can use to improve quality of my work, including foreign phrases.
Almost there. But I thought if I say 行きます、行きません、いきませんか, then I can use 行きまれ　to tell person to go somewhere in a rude manner. It really helps with low-end people, believe it :) Smth like ichkaro sumnida in hangul, for example :) Really helps :) (not noticing that this Hangul phrase maybe never existed :))
Also I want to learn the 侍's speak manner. Too attractive for me.

[nice gaijin]

Where is this internet cafe? Your residence flag says Ukraine; what would you need Japanese for?

Also, if you're working, be it an office or a store, you shouldn't be using this kind of vocabulary... what are you thinking?!

[Derfel]

I'd say its plain curiosity.

[ハダカ]

To Gaijin:
I I say where is it situated, is that will tell anything to you? :)
BELIEVE ME, in Ukraine that kind of vocabulary is used everywhere, and especially in my work, so it MUST HAVE to me.
And,
To both of you:
What's that strange that Ukranian wanna learn Japanese? Not some Vietnamese or Khmer?

[nice gaijin]

I don't care where you are from. I asked what you would need Japanese for working at an internet cafe in Ukraine. There's nothing wrong with learning a foreign language, but you seem to be interested in just being as insulting as possible (Japanese is a particularly poor language for this, I suggest Finnish).

[ハダカ]

Heh lol got my self on using よ in everyday language :) kinda funny.
So you'll keep asking questions or help me to solve this problem? :)

[nice gaijin]

What is your problem, exactly?

If you want to learn to be rude, why not just watch anime and imitate what you hear? It seems that is what you have been doing so far. Charles Barkley and NattyBumppo have covered a good deal, is there something in particular you want to be able to say?

[ハダカ]

- How to use 貴様
- How to use ぜ and ぞ
Shortly that's all.

[nice gaijin]

貴様 is just another pronoun for "you," and is used the same as あなた or お前, it's just not really used by real people anymore. Almost all forms of "you" are rude in a way, 貴様 being one of the most confrontational, along with てめぇ, a mutation of 手前 (手前 is also never used anymore, but てめぇ sees much more usage by people looking for a fight). Interestingly enough, all of these words were not originally rude; just looking at the kanji makes this clear.

grammatically, ぜ and ぞ are interchangeable with よ, they are just more masculine emphatic particles.

[ハダカ]

Okay you got me, just few questions again.
- My english is so BAD, can't remember what means "masculine".
- How exactly to use ぜ and ぞ ? As I want?
- I remember also some kinda おのれ, but already forgot when I seen it.
And last: what's so bad in listening to Naruto and Tenchu anyway? :)

[nice gaijin]

masculine means guys use it to sound macho, if you know that word.
ぜ and ぞ have no actual meaning, they just go at the end of a sentence, like an exclamation point (!)
己 is another insulting pronoun, but I've never heard it actually used before.

I didn't say that there's anything wrong with watching anime. If someone is genuinely interested in learning Japanese, I would only suggest anime as listening practice (many people seem to want to learn just so they can understand anime anyways), and not as an actual learning tool. Trying to learn from anime creates a lot of bad habits, and people that try this end up sounding like anime characters. Those speaking patterns may sound cool when you're watching it on TV, but people who end every other sentence with だってばよ are just making fools of themselves.

[ハダカ]

It's getting more interesting I suppose!
Tenchu (天誅) isn't anime, it's PSX game about 忍者 :)
I would only suggest anime as listening practice (many people seem to want to learn just so they can understand anime anyways)
Yeah, listening practice is that word! Word like なあなれたむんだ and ますぬしゅねんからつくんでくるんて are so pleasant to listen!
and not as an actual learning tool.
My ACTUAL learning tool is Minna_No_Nihongo_I, not anime, don't scare me please :)
but people who end every other sentence with だってばよ are just making fools of themselves
Come on, how many Ukranians is actually so deep in Japanese that knows secrets of that? Therefore, だってばよ is one of the most useful tools in my job, believe it! :D

[Charles Barkley]

I am trying to imagine exactly what you are doing. Are you speaking Ukranian and then just adding some random japanese phrases into what you are saying? If you are doing something like this and want to try to get 'cool points,' probably the easiest thing you could do would be to replace your 'um's, uhs, and well's' with なんか, こう, やっぱ, and ま.

There are slight differences in when you would use them, but you, and apparently your customers, will have no idea you're sounding weird, so you'll be adding 'cool japanese' into your normal speech.

Or something like that.


Not that I would ever recommend actually doing that. :okashii:

And if you want to yell at someone to go away, it is not いきまれ (please reread my explanation on how to actually use this grammar point) but いけ。 Perhaps the phrase you are looking for, an equivalent to get the hell outta here, is でていけ！

[ハダカ]

Thanks a lot. Still one thing : can i use だってばよ for my customers or not?

Is there such word as いいくせよ or something? And what's this せよ actually means? Saw it many times.