Kanji Question...(Encounter/Kill Buddha thread)

[Zenmasterbeta]

I want to write out the zen phrase..."kill the buddha". Does anyone know the order of words translated back into english...Someone told me that in chinese it's "buddha kill it". Is it the same in Japanese kanji????

[thomas]

< sermon >

Thou shalt not post duplicate messages!

</ sermon >

[Elizabeth]

No, in Japanese it is "Buddha kill" (no "it") or "Butsu wo koroshi" --while Chinese I believe is "....Kill (this?) buddha."

[uroncha]

Those who encounter buddha kill buddha.
Those who encounter Ancestor kill Ancestor.

Is it this word that you are asking?
Probably, the forum to ask is different.

ccattu!! :o

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by uroncha
Those who encounter buddha kill buddha.

And isn't the direct translation of this from Japanese just

"Encounter buddha, kill buddha" .... or sometimes "when/if you encounter buddha, kill buddha"

[Zenmasterbeta]

Would "encounter buddha, kill buddha" written in kanji be translated as "buddha encounter, buddha kill" ???

[Zenmasterbeta]

The kanji character "meet" is kind of confusing because it also means "society", but does it mean the same as "encounter"??

[Elizabeth]

That is the Japanese word order, but written in Kanji would mean being translated back into English, no?

[Elizabeth]

Well, it means a lot of things -- and I don't even think that one is the one that's usually used for this saying. There is also a separate word for 'encounter' in Japanese, though.

[Zenmasterbeta]

Anybody (Elizabeth?) know where I might find "encounter buddha, kill buddha" written in Kanji online??

[Elizabeth]

Do you have a Japanese language pack? Anyway, I'd go with the first one -- but these are the four main ways it has been transcripted....


仏に逢うては仏を殺し

仏に逢ったら仏を殺し

仏に会っては仏を殺し

仏に会ったら仏を殺し

[Zenmasterbeta]

I have a lanuage. pack & I was wondering how come there are so many kanji characters for "encounter buddha Kill buddha"?? I see "buddha" something "meet" something something "buddha" something "kill" "(it)"? Is "on the road" in the middle, maybe? I want to get this saying tattooed and i may just start with "kill the buddha" which I thought was indicated earlier as simply "buddha kill"???? When you have a moment, please explain kanji translation literally.
Thanks Elizabeth for all your help!!!

[Elizabeth]

Well, the somethings are particles which, like English prepositions, give the context for nouns and verbs, adjectives and adverbs etc to make sense and be understandable, except coming after the terms they modify not before. "に" for instance, roughly translates as "to" and can be thought in directional terms as going to or towards the buddha. "は" is a little tricky coming after the verb 逢って, but I think in a case like this it is rendering a contrast between the first and second parts of the phrase (which normally wouldn't be considered related). "を”is a direct object marker and indicates the being on which the verb (killing) is to be performed.

[kirei_na_me]

I merged these numerous threads, because they were having to do with the exact same subject. Let's keep anything having to do with this subject in this thread, please. Thanks.

[Zenmasterbeta]

Out of the four transcriptions u sent,I liked the last two the best. So my question to you is, if i want to just get "kill the buddha " tattooed now & have it make sense, would it be the last 4 characters???

[Elizabeth]

Yes, technically it is only three characters because the last two are both the verb, but anyway this is the "kill the buddha" part....
And if you have space do you want to kill your ancestors too ;)?


仏を殺し

[avarame]

Grammar question from a nihongo newbie :)

That's the verb ころす right? Why does it end with し?

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by avarame
Grammar question from a nihongo newbie :)

That's the verb ころす right? Why does it end with し?
I can't give a very good explanation on the grammar. I just know it is because it is generally only the first clause of a multi-verb sentence, followed by the lines about killing your ancestors and oftentimes several more things after that. So by using 殺す with an exclamatory period you would be subverting the original intent and scope of however this aphorism came into being. :o

[avarame]

Ahh, ok. I know next to nothing about verbs that aren't the final predicator. If it WERE the final predicator, what kind of conjugation would it have, in that usage? Imperative, one of the "polite" imperatives, indicative...?

[Elizabeth]

It's hard to say in this case, based on 7th C Chinese....but I have come across numerous instances of it having been been extracted as a sentence using mostly the plain indicative/infinitive (Korosu) but also one or two as plain imparatives (Koroshinasai).