Mercury threat rising in dolphin meat

[Sarapva]

I think a link has already been posted about the Taiji officials studying toxins in dolphin meat. I saw a new story today about how stores in Taiji are taking dolphin meat off the shelves because those studies have found the mercury levels to be a lot higher than the acceptable levels:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22920804/

The dolphin meat industry is complaining that this has cost them a lot of money already, but this is a study that was done by Taiji officials, not from anyone outside the area.

[Chi65]

:relief:Thanks a lot, Sarapva!
I think, this article should be posted in full, if you don't mind. I tried to do the job. . .

Japan’s dolphin hunt sags over mercury fears

Animal rights activists have failed to thwart industry, but toxin might
updated 12:49 a.m. ET Jan. 31, 2008 TAIJI, Japan -

Every autumn and winter, hunters from this craggy Japanese fishing village corral thousands of dolphins into a tiny, isolated cove and kill them for meat and fertilizer, turning the water red with their blood.

And every year, foreign animal rights protesters converge on the town, interfering with the slaughter, clashing with fishermen and broadcasting grisly photographs of the slayings around the world — all without stopping the hunt.

Now, Japan's dolphin hunters face a new, powerful opponent: mercury contamination.

Scientific studies in recent years in Japan have documented high levels of the toxic heavy metal in dolphin meat, and a group of city councilmen in Taiji launched an unprecedented campaign against the hunt several months ago after doing their own tests.
A leading regional supermarket chain has pulled dolphin from its shelves over the health concerns, and hunt critics in the town say villagers are shunning it. Meat from pilot whales — a type of dolphin — was taken off local school lunch menus in October.

"The mayor says we've caused 100 million yen ($1 million) in damages to the industry, but I don't know how that's calculated," said Junichiro Yamashita, a city councilman spearheading the anti-hunt movement. "They say the business is important for Taiji, but we say that health is more important."

Mercury threat strikes a chord

Indeed, while animal rights arguments against the hunt have fallen on deaf ears in Japan, the threat of mercury contamination strikes a chord in a country where food safety is rapidly becoming a paramount public concern.

Though no mercury poisoning cases from dolphin meat have been publicly documented in Taiji, such contamination resonates loudly in Japan, where thousands were killed or crippled by mercury poisoning in Minamata in the 1950s and 60s. The poisoning was triggered by massive dumping of industrial mercury into the fishing grounds around the village in southern Japan.

Taiji is one of several Japanese villages where dolphins are hunted. The town this season has a nationally set quota of 3,015, of a total national quota of nearly 21,000. The actual take tends to be about 30 percent lower than the quota, depending on demand for the meat.

While other villages usually harpoon their quarry out at sea, the particularly bloody killing methods in Taiji have made the town a focal point of animal rights activists worldwide.

The village resents the attention and accuses outsiders of interfering with a hunting tradition of hundreds of years. Standoffs between protesters and hunters quickly boil over into arguments and threats. The town erects barriers and hangs tarps to block activists from photographing the kill, and daily hunts can be canceled if foreigners are seen in town.
"No thank you," said an official at the fisheries union when approached for comment on the hunt. "You've come at a bad time."

Government's contamination limits exceeded

The recent findings on mercury levels, however, have given pause to many would-be consumers.

Tetsuya Endo, a researcher at the Health Sciences University of Hokkaido, in northern Japan, has co-authored numerous studies showing dolphin meat can contain mercury at concentrations many times higher than the 0.4 parts per million allowed by the Japanese government for many types of fish.

The highest concentration he has found so far was 100 parts per million from a bottlenose dolphin — a species whose meat is butchered in Taiji.
"This ought to be investigated," Endo said, calling for a government probe into the dangers of eating dolphin. "There are people who eat it a lot, and those people could be suffering health effects."

The threat of mercury contamination, however, failed to cause a stir in this isolated village until Yamashita, irked by the town's plans to build a $3 million dolphin slaughterhouse and spread the use of local dolphin meat in school lunches, decided with allies to conduct their own probe.

The results on tests of three locally bought pieces of dolphin meat at a government-run lab confirm their fears, he said.

The pieces of meat taken from pilot whales were all many times the 0.4 parts per million threshold. One piece logged 11 parts per million of mercury, and 2.6 parts per million of PCBs, an industrial pollutant that Japanese regulations limit to 0.5.

Hunters have friends in high places

Yamashita and his allies announced the results in a handout distributed with local newspapers, and he expanded his crusade by appearing at a news conference in Tokyo for foreign reporters — a move that angered village elders and hunters.

"They said that if dolphin hunting disappears, then Taiji will disappear, but I say it's important to look at developing other industries," he said. "They're upset that I showed this to the outside world."

The anti-hunt movement, however, faces substantial hurdles.

The Taiji leadership — only three of 10 councilmen oppose the hunt — is clinging to plans for the new slaughterhouse, counting on sales of dolphin meat outside the region, where the mercury concerns have not spread because of lack of national media attention. Captured dolphins are also sold to dolphin aquariums in Japan and abroad, at substantial profit.

Taiji has powerful contacts at the national level. Lawmaker Toshihiro Nikai, a top executive of the long-ruling Liberal Democratic Party, is a native of the prefecture where Taiji is located, and he recently visited the village. Campaign posters of him can be seen around town.

Tokyo — which is also battling international protesters over its whaling program on the high seas — is not getting involved in the dolphin dispute, despite a Health Ministry survey in 2003 confirming high levels of mercury in the mammals. The Fisheries Agency in 2005 upgraded a 2-year-old advisory to urge pregnant women not to eat dolphin more than once every two months.

In any case, the 0.4 parts per million limit on mercury does not apply to dolphin meat, and there are no plans to strengthen the guidelines, officials said.

"We are aware that mercury content is particularly high in dolphins," said Yuichiro Ejima, a food safety official at the Health Ministry. "But ... most Japanese seldom eat the meat, except in some areas where dolphins are caught traditionally."


I am so very glad, the Japanese wake up themselves!!
:relief:

[Sarapva]

Thanks, Chi! I'm also glad this was done by Japanese officials.

[Chi65]

And it also sums the whole problem up for everyone to see!
Great indeed! I have passed it on to other forums, it should be widely known.

Now some will have a problem, as for silly racist arguments, hehe.

And again, according to the whale trails, that are often ignored and left out for obvious purpose, one whale is a good or bad as any other one. Its the fat, that mainly stores the mercury etc., same as in dolphins.
I do fear for the Wakayama children though, it will show only later. . .

[Chi65]

I just got the message from my US friends, that there was an related warning coming from Manhattan, N.Y.

also in the news about mercury poison.
sushi fish!
yellow fin tuna I believe it is.
an independent study done of sushi eateries in manhatten.
mercury poisoning up to 6o percent higher that the safe level, the so-called healthy level.

Igitt! Where does that fish come from??

[Chi65]

Its not new at all, see this video, posted 1 year ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd5lHbtyxzs

and some information about how mercury effects the brain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImCpWzXJ_w

. . . . . . . . .

[Kyoto Returnee]

Great vid Chi:

Just researching the mercury bizo a little more.

It amazes me how laxed the hygiene for food laws are in Japan.

I founds this news article interesting.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/12/1055220711026.html

I heard a lady became extremely sick a few days ago after eating a fish, which is poisonous, although apparantly once the poison is removed (only be specialists), the fish is safe.

Well, apparantly this time she was unlucky..

I wonder why one would eat it when their are other choices..

I tried it once in Japan (Fubu), no big deal and not much taste..

I don't like fish or seafood at the best of times, although have to be nbaighty and admit I do enjoy a good staek on the babrbie :-)

Leave the sausages at home.. Never know what's inside, and the outside is enough to put me off..

[Chi65]

Great vid Chi:

Just researching the mercury bizo a little more.

It amazes me how laxed the hygiene for food laws are in Japan.

I founds this news article interesting.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/12/1055220711026.html

I heard a lady became extremely sick a few days ago after eating a fish, which is poisonous, although apparantly once the poison is removed (only be specialists), the fish is safe.

Well, apparantly this time she was unlucky..

I wonder why one would eat it when their are other choices..

I tried it once in Japan (Fubu), no big deal and not much taste..

I don't like fish or seafood at the best of times, although have to be nbaighty and admit I do enjoy a good staek on the babrbie :-)

Leave the sausages at home.. Never know what's inside, and the outside is enough to put me off..

Thanks for the other link, its still valid. I will need more time to go through though. Yes, its wellknown, that one meat goes for another one over there, they have no rules for this, its not a crime, as I read somewhere, thus can easily bypass it. They are cheating each other to death, if such things go on. . .Someone said, they are very sensitive about food, well, that maybe so for foreign food, their own gets through uncensored, fo longer. and although it was mentioned many times, they wish to ignore it, in fact creating their own desaster this way. And of course, if a foreigner tells them, the irrational racist theme comes up again and disturbs the clear view.
Its such a pity!
And yet I stay their friend, once I have been given so much, its my turn to give something back, be it an eagle eye. . .let them shout, I am used to worse, and yet it was right.

Isn't it Fugu, to my knowledge? Well, russian roulette, if they like it. . .I have not yet tried that fish and am not sure if I will.

For tomorrow I have only pasta, no meat. But that serves me as well ;-)

See you!

[centrajapan]

The minke whale is safe to eat. The chances of dying from heart attack and caner is greater with eating sausages and pokk chops, hamburgers than lean ecological whale meat.

[Chi65]

Keep on, passing old misinformations. I have gotten the same warning informations about different minke whales on a science forum right now. Its far from safe.
While you even put all minkes in one bag. . .

[centrajapan]

Please learn more about whales and the dangers of eating sausages.

You probably could not tell the difference between a mackrell and a whale and the difference between a pilot and a minke whale.

[Chi65]

Please stop unreasonable flamings.

I additionally read several scientific research papers, so did others.
We are not talking about mackarels and whale differences here, who I can sort out very well, by the way.

[centrajapan]

Please read more about whales. Do it for you own benefit. There are 80 different whale spiecies. Why is it so hard for you to admit that there are many differences within the various whale speicies? Please read more about whales and the dangers of sausages. Your ignorance on this matter and your close minded prejudice is baffling.

[Chi65]

I DO know about the many species of whales, and also what unites them.
Particularly in real scientific research papers.
Why does that not go into your head?
You always only distract with YOUR close mindedness and paranoid fixations.
You even put all minkes in one bag. . .

[centrajapan]

Ｒｅａｄ　ｍｏｒｅ　ａｂｏｕｔ　ｗｈａｌｅｓ．

[Chi65]

Read again, what I wrote.

And also, I have been interested in whales and dolphins for more than 35 years, thus read a lot, have several books about them, plus saw many films and reports. Just for informations about who is ignorant.

[Chi65]

Just some mixed reflections on another page, tokyotimes, actually:

http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/?p=872

about whalemeat

http://static.blogo.it/ecoblog/whalemeat.jpg

[Rose Selavey]

I found this interesting link,

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/earth/stories/s587590.htm

It is a transcript of an interview of some Japanese whalers, and at the end has a bit about the high PCB's in whale meat.

[Rose Selavey]

and from the Environmental Health Perspectives web site
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2003/111-14/forum.html#merc

[Chi65]

Thanks a lot, Rose S.!

As for the first one, I hope you don't mind, if I copy some of the text in here, since it is still valid?:

Selene Alcock: So, Noriko, do you eat whale meat as well?

Noriko Sato: No.

Selene Alcock: Have you ever tried it?

Noriko Sato: Yes, because when I was an elementary school student, we had the whale meat for lunch. But at home, I didn’t eat.

Selene Alcock: Noriko Sato.

A few months ago, the Japanese government launched a public relations campaign to reverse this trend. In Tokyo, whaleburgers are now offered as an alternative to the beef burgers that Japanese youth have become so accustomed to eating. Japan’s fisheries agency claims that whale meat is good for one’s health, and even the brain. They say children who eat it will achieve higher grades in school.

Recent research has found mercury levels in whale flesh up to 25 times the government safety limit, and up to 5,000 times above the limit in liver.

Vivvi Koomson is an adviser to the Finnish delegation to the International Whaling Commission. She believes the Japanese government’s push to encourage children to eat whale meat is in fact endangering their lives.

Vivvi Koomson: It’s not safe to eat the meat, no matter where it comes from, because the accumulative of this mercury and other stuff, it’s so high on whales that it is very unsafe for people to eat it.

Selene Alcock: Do you think the Japanese people are aware of the health hazard of eating whale meat?

Vivvi Koomson: They should be, let’s put it that way, they really should be, because it is especially for young children and pregnant mothers and it is do dangerous, dangerous to eat whale. And I think it would be very important for the government to be aware of this and let the people know.

[pipokun]

Vivvi Koomson: It’s not safe to eat the meat, no matter where it comes from, because the accumulative of this mercury and other stuff, it’s so high on whales that it is very unsafe for people to eat it.

It is a dangerous food faddism which does not say that the mercury and other stuff related to seafood are excreted from the body...

[centrajapan]

Thinking about the mercury will cause more harm. The next time you try whale meat Chi think about the mercury. You'll probably die of heart attack due to stress before the mercury gets to you.

[centrajapan]

Traditional diet, nutritious and, well, traditional. Tired of turkey? Had it with ham? Sick of stuffing? Try a hunk of boiled whale blubber or a heaping helping of raw seal brain.

The traditional diet of the Inuit, an enduring part of Canadian lore for hundreds of years, remains as much a part of life in the North now as it was a century ago. It has proven just as resilient as the western holiday tradition of eating turkey with all the trimmings.

Even dangerously high levels of pollutants in "country foods" like seal and beluga whale aren't enough to convince northerners to give up their hearty habits, says Day. "It would take an awful lot to really make us change our diet. It's part of our culture. It's something that's really hard to explain."

A Health Canada study released this month points to high levels of cadmium and mercury in many of the animals upon which traditional Inuit depend for sustenance. But despite the toxins, nutritional experts and Health Canada agree: a steady diet of meats and fats from the ringed seal and beluga whale still does more good than harm. "The nutritional value of our country foods probably overrides the danger of the pollutants that are in them," Day said in a phone interview from Inuvik, about 2,000 meters northwest of Edmonton. "If would take a lot of proof that it is harming us before we would give up our way of life, our way of eating."

A western-based diet - which includes everything form fast food to the standard Christmas meal - is worse for the Inuit than eating toxin-laced country food.

What was more important was the concern about malnutrition from foods imported form the West, because it's not as nutritious as whales and seals," said Leslie Whitby of Indian and Northern Affairs. Rather than have the Inuit eat food that would pose a known health risk, it made more sense to let them maintain their traditional diets, Whitby said.

http://www.highnorth.no/library/Culture/to-or-n.htm

Anti whale = Racism.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Anti whale = Racism.

Serious, I just don't get it..

If we say we are not racist, but are against whaling, why do you think that makes us racist as you keep constantly stating?

Your own opinion, PLEASE!

[centrajapan]

If we say we are not racist, but are against whaling, why do you think that makes us racist as you keep constantly stating?

Because you disregard cultures and people who have a tradition eating whale meat. Just that there are so many threads on the evil Japanese whaling is racist while there is not one mention of Japanese beef farming for instance.

If you are a vegeterian why is it not worse to kill 1,000,000 cows than 1000 whales a year?

[Kyoto Returnee]

Because you disregard cultures and people who have a tradition eating whale meat. Just that there are so many threads on the evil Japanese whaling is racist while there is not one mention of Japanese beef farming for instance.

If you are a vegeterian why is it not worse to kill 1,000,000 cows than 1000 whales a year?

Serious, my wife is Japanese and I'm not disregarding cultures..

Japan (as a country) has a not so famous history which tends to stick out somewhat, so I guess anything perceived as evil fits in the minds of some automatically, I think that is ignorance, not racism, although personally, I am not thinking about it.

I am focussing purely on the whales..

I guess you could also say it's a cultural opinion to think about whales as Australians do, although I am not getting into cultures at all as it then turns into a racist slanging match.

Don't you think a majority of Japan's population couldn't care less and don't eat whale meat?

I don't think their is much exposure towards beef farming in Japan, that's probably why.

As for killing the amounts of cows VS whaes, I don't think it's better either way, especially if it's a vegetarian doing it.

[centrajapan]

Japan (as a country) has a not so famous history which tends to stick out somewhat

Australian history is also famous for sticking out doesn't it not?

I don't think it's better either way, especially if it's a vegetarian doing it.

So it is not worse to eat whales than cows then.

[Chi65]

Thinking about the mercury will cause more harm. The next time you try whale meat Chi think about the mercury. You'll probably die of heart attack due to stress before the mercury gets to you.

I am very far from any heart attacks, as doctors just lately pointed out, don't you worry:-)
you seem to be far more stressed. . .

[Chi65]

Because you disregard cultures and people who have a tradition eating whale meat. Just that there are so many threads on the evil Japanese whaling is racist while there is not one mention of Japanese beef farming for instance.
If you are a vegeterian why is it not worse to kill 1,000,000 cows than 1000 whales a year?

You still have not gotten the points at all with your mind fixations, tics, so to say.. . .

It has nothing to do with disregarding a culture.

And we are on the whale topic, not on the cow topic after all.

[Rose Selavey]

I think the most interesting thing with the high levels of PCB's in cetaceans is that meat which has very high levels of mercury is being sold as 'safe whale meat'. It has been assumed for a long time that seafood was safe and good for pregnant women and children being called 'brain food'. Now it is understood that the pelagic species of fish are not safe for children or pregnant women. I wouldn't put my child at risk, as I'm sure thousands of Japanese and Norwegian mothers would also put their child's health first.

Being anti-whaling is not racist, just as being pro-whaling is not racist. Racism is being singled out and abused because of your race, not the action that you are doing. Clubbing a baby seal to death for its fur or killing a joey for fun is wrong no matter what nationality you are.

[Chi65]

Some simply don't want to see this, since the PR machinery was, and probably still is, so strong. . .thats the problem.
Without all the poison it was good food before indeed, but that time is simply over. And who ignores this, will be far from safe. And thats a fact.
It does not happen in Japan only, and the contamination of the oceans is not getting less, in contrary. Weird, but true.
BTW, CJ is banned again. . .

[Rose Selavey]

That is so true, chi it is only going to get worse. Is CJ banned from the forum?

[Chi65]

Yep, he went far over the top. . .(that post is deleted now)

[Rose Selavey]

Doh, I missed it, sometimes I get to see them if I'm quick enough.

[Chi65]

It was there only for very short time anyhow. Now we can talk without irrational flamings, much better!

[butakun]

Serious, my wife is Japanese and I'm not disregarding cultures..


<OFFTOPIC>
I hear this line a lot, but not sure why this is even relevant. My wife is of a different race, culture, religion, but I don't think that makes me automatically immune from being a bigot, I can be just as disrespectful to her culture as anybody else. Just my thought. (Please note that I'm not calling you a bigot, not at all)
</OFFTOPIC>

Anyway, you raised an interesting point here and I wanted to respond to it:

Don't you think a majority of Japan's population couldn't care less and don't eat whale meat?

I agree with you. You are probably right. I don't care for whale meat, but if I was given a choice, I might still support whaling, simply because I have never seen a convincing argument against banning whaling altogether.

But what is being discussed in this thread is an important issue. Mercury poisoning is an issue very very close to the hearts of many Japanese, from the memory of two Minamata outbreaks the kids all learn in school. Mercury poisoning from sea food has long been well documented (at least in Japan) and Japanese government makes an enormous effort ensuring the sea food safety in this regard and publishes extensive information on risks to pregnant womens, etc. Tuna is known to be especially high on mercury.

This discussion on dolphin meat mercury content is very important, no doubt about that, but that still cannot be a reason for banning whale meat. It would be a reason for stricter regulation on the distribution of dolphin meat.

[Chi65]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

[pipokun]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

You don't know how much whale meat dishes the kids ate, or what the govenment did caused another troubles before...

Or I should say that you did not know what the government did, though I don't know what you mean by "enough".
Please define it...

キンメダイなど価格急落 水銀発表で“風評被害”
魚体に含まれる水銀が胎児に悪影響を及ぼすとして、厚 生労働省が名前を挙げて、妊婦に摂食を週２回以下にす るよう発表したキンメダイやメカジキの価格が急落して いる。
2003/06/15 07:21 【共同通信】
The annoucement from the government about the mercury concentration and the recomendation that pregnant women should reduce the intake caused the sharp price drop of certain seafood
July 15, 2003

[butakun]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

Yes it's important that we watch out for the safety. But I've read the report (will dig the link later), and they indeed recognized it but the amount of average intake was not big enough to warrant full-out ban on dolphin meat, while definitely encouraging the continuation of close monitoring. Minke whale hunt is a different issue here. Different species have very different characteristics on mercury/PCB content, and in fact Minke whale was found to be quite safe in terms of mercury content. What is of issue here is the dolphin meat taken in Taiji and its safety. Taiji school board pull ed the meat out of the menu, and I agree that they should have been more careful and the distribution of meat in school lunch must be more closely monitored so that it doesn't happen again, and that's the responsibility the government, local or national, should bear. But this does not mean whaling should be banned in my opinion.

[Chi65]

You don't know how much whale meat dishes the kids ate, or what the govenment did caused another troubles before...
Or I should say that you did not know what the government did, though I don't know what you mean by "enough".
Please define it...

Well, we do know, there are several links and quotes already. At least since 2003 there were more than 250 in schools in Wakayama provided with that meat, I think, at the beginning they talked about 270 or so, can't remember.
But that was surely only the beginning of that campain. At that moment it was already known, that this meat was not safe at all!
And the government did nothoing against this, they even supported this!!
While they now do, as if they had nothing to do with it, what a lie!

There have been demonstrations in 2003 already, in Tokyo, if I remember right, its also on one of those links.
I suppose, if you see the searches, you will find it, or you just google.

Is that not enough? And thats only one example, not to mention the laxity, if not total ignorance about letting the whalers sell this food and even spreading, that it is health food!

Now they have the trouble in their own house piling up. Minamata was already openly mentioned by many long ago for the very same reason as now, and now it becomes even more urgent.

[Chi65]

Yes it's important that we watch out for the safety. But I've read the report (will dig the link later), and they indeed recognized it but the amount of average intake was not big enough to warrant full-out ban on dolphin meat, while definitely encouraging the continuation of close monitoring. Minke whale hunt is a different issue here. Different species have very different characteristics on mercury/PCB content, and in fact Minke whale was found to be quite safe in terms of mercury content. What is of issue here is the dolphin meat taken in Taiji and its safety. Taiji school board pull ed the meat out of the menu, and I agree that they should have been more careful and the distribution of meat in school lunch must be more closely monitored so that it doesn't happen again, and that's the responsibility the government, local or national, should bear. But this does not mean whaling should be banned in my opinion.

Well, I suggest, you read more than just this page, and if possible, more than just one link or quote. Minke is not safe, only a bit less contaminated than other whales, but definitely not safe.
Dolphins and whales share the same ability to store such poisions via fat, are equally handled via whalers and government, consumers even often fooled by false labels, for example whale for dolphin and vice versa, and all been labeled for health food. And all been found poisoned by according tests. It has all been shown here all the time.
And then the fake scientific whaling label, while provable no one has to be killed for this nowadays. Sorry, its enough now.

[butakun]

Chi, I've read the article you linked and I am in no way disputing any figures appropriately published, and I do commend your effort in raising food safety awareness. There is a protocol to be followed when determining the risk of mercury poisoning, as pretty much every species found in the ocean is contaminated to some extent. The justification for not completely banning Gondou dolphin meat was that the average intake of said meat was not enough to warrant a complete ban. In fact, tuna is more dangerous in this sense, although their mercury content might not be as high as dolphin meat, its meat is consumed far far more frequently by average Japanese.

Whaling is not necessary. This, in fact, I agree. It's probably my libertarianism tendency which makes me wary of comprehensive whaling ban, when appropriately limited regulation could achieve the same effect.

As for the distinction between whales and dolphins, I did not draw a line like that. I've come to learn that the distinction between them are pretty much arbitrary, and biologically there is a more accurate grouping of cetatea. They can be grouped into two primary groups and are indeed quite different in terms of their position in the food chain, and Minke is of one group and Gondou dolphin is of another, and they differ significantly in where they get mercury from, not how they keep.

I'm not saying Minke was safe in an absolute scale. They do contain more mercury than other food, it seems, and I certainly don't object if the meat is banned if mercury content is of dangerous level to public health.

[Kyoto Returnee]

<OFFTOPIC>
I hear this line a lot, but not sure why this is even relevant. My wife is of a different race, culture, religion, but I don't think that makes me automatically immune from being a bigot, I can be just as disrespectful to her culture as anybody else.
Anyway, you raised an interesting point here and I wanted to respond to it:



I'm stating the obvious..

The member claiming racism has been washed, so no more need to justify my non racist views, although I hear you and I'm sure most would understand if my wife was a different culture to me, do you honestly think I would be racist to the culture.. The answer is no.

Hope that clears your Non Topic part up. please do not carry on.

[Chi65]

I just think, if "they" can't handle it safely and with respect, they should not do it, and I mean the whalers as well as the government and others, or as much us humans in general.
Knowing, that even other states than just Japan are and will be effected by misinformations and thus according following effects, plus definitely growing ocean pollution, it should be better these days, to drop it alltogether, even outside any whale loving aspect.
Yes, this might very well also include other fish, except they really come from clean waters, sure. Weird thought, but maybe this is, where it all moves to.

(I personally have no idea, how that could/or should be done then)

Well, I hope, our Eco-meat is OK, although I personally am not such a paranoid one to move towards completely meat free diet (sorry, dear veggies, I know, you have other reasons, which I respect very much, but cannot (yet?) fully sign, please, be patient with me). Even ecological vegetables are not always free from poison either, nor can I draw a clear line between a vegetagle and an animal, from clear knowledge etc.
But in my present age and an average age of 85 or more to expect due to genetics, I am not too bothered about maybe loosing a few years, in case.

But if children. . .then I get all the red buttons ringing at once, and very loud!
Thats the mum in me, simple fact. And why not, if some naughty boys can't stop cheating and killing for money and fun.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Butakun:

I think the main issue here is the fact that Dolphins, that are being slaughtered in Japan, are being eaten which is potentially dangerous due to high mercury levels present inside.

Would you want your kids to eat them if you knew that mercury was their?
I know I wouldn't.

As a side note, I definitely do not agree with the cruel and savage slaughter of rounding them into nets them stabbing them all, left to die a slow and agonizing death:131:

[pipokun]

Only thing you can do is not to consume any seafood if you are interested in the food fad.

Salt or water kills you if you take them too much, and all kids should study that you can eat raw pork sausage if you have strict food standards like Germany.

My poor English/French skills have nothing to do with the mercury concentration in seafood.

[bakaKanadajin]

The minke whale is safe to eat. The chances of dying from heart attack and caner is greater with eating sausages and pokk chops, hamburgers than lean ecological whale meat.


This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Once again you've effectively demonstrated your lack of reading comprehension (or disregard for keeping things on topic) and your willingness to simply stick your nose into any thread even remotely related to the ocean to get on your soap box and go on about how good whaling is and how people should cut you a break.

If your country is already whaling for 'scientific' purposes and essentially circumventing the ban then what do you care anyway? If anyone was going to change the minds of anti-whaling proponents I doubt it'd be the likes of you.

Whaling isn't high on my list of things humans should be doing right now in the world, but killing dolphins is even worse. They're clearly intelligent animals which we understand very little about, and they are not a natural part of our food chain either. In principle eating them would be akin to killing and eating primates; it's just ignorant and wasteful. It's already quite unfortunate that they're being poisoned by mercury.

[Sarapva]

Whaling isn't high on my list of things humans should be doing right now in the world, but killing dolphins is even worse. They're clearly intelligent animals which we understand very little about, and they are not a natural part of our food chain either. In principle eating them would be akin to killing and eating primates; it's just ignorant and wasteful. It's already quite unfortunate that they're being poisoned by mercury.

This is a good analogy - thanks, B.K. It's disheartening to think how these dolphins are being rounded up and slaughtered "en masse". I'm sure that there is terror that spreads through the group like it would be for humans being killed that way.

[pipokun]

they are not a natural part of our food chain either.

Higher mercury concentration in aged and bigger fish is quite natural.
A legendary Taoist master in China was said to live on mist, but it is usually difficult for us to eat it.
So the first thing kids should learn is that obesity is a great index to measure how greedy you are against nature.

[butakun]

Butakun:
I think the main issue here is the fact that Dolphins, that are being slaughtered in Japan, are being eaten which is potentially dangerous due to high mercury levels present inside.

Agreed.


Would you want your kids to eat them if you knew that mercury was their?
I know I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't either. I just don't see the connection to whaling ban. Mercury is present in many species of fish as well, mainly big ones, and they must be all closely monitored for safety.

[Kyoto Returnee]

I just don't see the connection to whaling ban.

I can't see it. Is it their?

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

A purpose of a thread of here,
"Because a large quantity of mercury is included to a whale, a Japanese must not eat a whale."
Is it good in this?

[Kyoto Returnee]

A purpose of a thread of here,
"Because a large quantity of mercury is included to a whale, a Japanese must not eat a whale."
Is it good in this?

It's up to the person I would say, Japanese or Spanish.... Mackerel..

If I suspect a possible mercury threat in something I'm eating form a reputable source, bloooddy danr sure I wouldn't touch it!

[Chi65]

I can't see it. Is it their?

I think, there clearly is.

First of all, the same people who support whaling, support dolphin-slaughter, and vice versa.
But also the meat of one is often labeled for being the other one, obviously both ways.
Both species also belong to the same "family", are treated with the same disrespect, have the pretty same mercury trouble according to their fat and being top of food chains, and also were both fed to schoolchildren etc.(not only dolphins, according to several informations during the last years).
Thus, the distribution incl. PR (its even said so in some articles) also goes via same sources, and you can well take one for another and see their common commercial interests, that guide their actions, ignoring, what is said by researches about the contents, or better, relating only to the parts that do not disturb their actions. It is definitely at least one of the main and same supporters of the whaling committee plus institute for catean research!
I forgot their name, but you can also find it in the given sources, easily to be found, when you come acrosss Inwood's past and present, not to mention, that this Mr. Inwood was already connected to them in New Zealand, before he even started to concentrate on the especial japanese part of the whaling issue.
And one should also see, who is closely connected to Taiji from the government, according to another recent information, yet there did not come enough responsible informations about the dangers of both, dolphins and whales, from the government, although it surely knew, what was going on. It would disturbe the votes for sure, if it all becomes more public, if you count the facts together. . .and now they are in trouble.

Its the same people behind both, if you get my point, and the same dangerous lack of responsibilities.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

I ask it.
I ask it
IWC admits indigenous people whaling.
They may suffer from mercury poisoning?

[Chi65]

There are also reports from other countries already, yes.
I have come across a few, but must find them again. They also got the same warnings accordingly. Definitely also in Norge since a while, but I remember, also iceland and north polar parts, where the minke poisoning is even higher than on the antarctic, but still less than in other whales, yet far from safe.
Its not new. Thus to say, its not, is simply a lie and only for PR, not to disturb the sellings or the whaling issue at large..
Saying, the least poisoned is safe, is like saying, the least dirty shirt of many dirty ones is white.
And all of them become more and more dirty. . .

[pipokun]

http://www.fsc.go.jp/english/topics/methylmercury.html
Methylmercury
Food　Safety　Risk　Assessment　Related to Methylmercury　in　Seafood [August 4, 2005] [PDF：1．5MB]
You can even find the English report in the authority.

[Chi65]

Ah, yes, that was one of them, thanks, pipokun!
By which one can see the willing disinformations of many people involved, because they definitely knew!
Its not only a Japanese issue after all, nor should Japan be blamed at large, only those involved, like in every country.
There are already according actions (petitions etc.) in other countries too, for example, against their own real "misleaders" (which surely is not Greenpeace and co, because they provable continuously tried to inform!) etc.

[Kyoto Returnee]

It's a terrible state.

I noticed quite a few possibly mercury laden creeks in Kyoto and also some sludge pouring from a factory into the sea in Wakayama, Japan.

It was also a huge problem in Thailand, Bangkok a main player, and most of the raw sewerage is coming from Japanese factories over their which is a sad fact.

I don't know much about other countries but certainly Australian's are very conscious towards the issue of keeping our waterways as squeaky clean as possible..

It would be interesting to find the main sources around the world for all this mercury, how, where, etc.

I know Japan is into recycling rubbish, but do they really care about the water quality of our oceans?

I wonder if the dolphins actually realise where to and not to go due to the pollution factor:erm:

[Chi65]

If this goes on, I can only hope, they will learn to avoid Japan, same with the whales. . .

[pipokun]

If this goes on, I can only hope, they will learn to avoid Japan, same with the whales. . .

I bet Aussie fundamentalists would attack tuna mansions/castles in Port Lincoln, Australia first.

[Chi65]

Hehe, very fishy, the whole theme ;-)

Somehow I get some Asterix comix into my memory, as for throwing fishes around in defence etc., slap, slap, or was it another comix?

[bakaKanadajin]

I ask it.
I ask it
IWC admits indigenous people whaling.
They may suffer from mercury poisoning?

Hiroyuki Nagashima san, mercury poisoning is a serious problem. In Canada our governmental health body, 'Health Canada', has issued warnings that state pregnant women should not eat more than two servings a week. Mercury levels are high in tuna because it's a large fish and the meat accumulates mercury over time as the fish grows. This is because it eats things in the water which contain small amounts. It's called bio-accumulation; the process by which hazardous elements find their way into the food chain and ultimatley collect at the top.

Whales due to their size accumulate the most, so if children are eating whale meat in school lunches on a regular basis it's bad for them. Mercury has been proven to slow cognitive function and brain development in children. This is why a pregnant woman should not eat it either, because their children are developing and are exposed to what she eats.

To derive the benefits of eating fish it is generally recommended that sardines, kipper, and other small dark oily fish are consumed in place of tuna which should only be consumed in moderation. I would imagine that whale meat, with its high levels of mercury, would also require extreme moderation.

[Rose Selavey]

Methylmercury
Mercury is an environmental contaminant that is
present in fish and seafood products largely as
methylmercury. Food sources other than fish and
seafood products may contain mercury but mostly
in the form of inorganic mercury, which is considerably
less toxic than methylmercury.
Methylmercury is highly toxic, particularly to
the nervous system; the developing brain is
thought to be the most sensitive target organ for
methylmercury toxicity. The Food and Agriculture
Organization/World Health Organization
Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives
(JECFA) has established a PTWI of 1.6 μg/kg
body weight. The estimated intakes of mercury
in Europe vary by country, depending on the
amount and the type of fish consumed. Some
population groups may frequently consume large
predatory fish (such as swordfish, tuna and pike)
which are at the top of the food chain and often
have a higher concentration of methylmercury.
Methylmercury toxicity has been demonstrated
at low exposure levels, and exposure to this compound
should therefore be minimized while recognizing
that fish constitutes an important part
of a balanced diet.

This is from the WHO web site, fact sheet 4.4 May 2007. It is a very good article and quote as it highlights the risks of eating contaminated seafood is high but even higher for populations which eat a lot of serves of seafood per week. Australia has recently began to promote a more balanced approach to the diet of children in families which traditionally consumed large amounts of seafood.
I agree with what you say Chi:
First of all, the same people who support whaling, support dolphin-slaughter, and vice versa. It is impossible to separate the two industries when products form one slaughter are being sold under the disguise of another. It is like buying free range eggs from a company that also owns battery hen operations.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Anyway It is not allowed to pollute the sea with the chemical.
And, do not eat the fish.
Especially, the tuna must not eat.
and The crab must not eat.
A salmon must not eat, too.
Because they are my favorite foods.
A price rises recently and is troubled.

[pipokun]

Australia has recently began to promote a more balanced approach to the diet of children in families which traditionally consumed large amounts of seafood.

Your government should tackle with the obesity first.
Obese people kill more animals and vegitables, or the diet is not sustanable considering the critical water shortage in your country...

[Kyoto Returnee]

Your government should tackle with the obesity first.
Obese people kill more animals and vegitables, or the diet is not sustanable considering the critical water shortage in your country...

As far as I know, mercury is not an issue for Obese people..

The water here is good..

Some areas have water shortages, which is unfortunately affecting farmers, but definitely no shortage where I am.. More than enough..

Back on topic!

[pipokun]

It is easy to imagine that super-obese people show more calorie intake, which probably includes tons of seafood as well. So it is more effective to do something against them.

Just curious if the tuna-rich Aussies in in Port Lincoln would show epidemiological differences there.

[Chi65]

Anyway It is not allowed to pollute the sea with the chemical.


Thats definitely true and a problem for all. . .and should not be put on Japan's back alone. Completely agreed.

(I like your general fairness and unflaming ways lately in many occasions, by the way,
thanks :-))

[Kyoto Returnee]

It is easy to imagine that super-obese people show more calorie intake, which probably includes tons of seafood as well. So it is more effective to do something against them.

Just curious if the Aussies in in Port Lincoln would show epidemiological differences there.

How is this related to mercury levels in Whales?

[pipokun]

How is this related to mercury levels in Whales?

If you're a super-obese person like the ones you easily find in your country, just follow the advices from your government.
The higher marcury concentration isn't only for whatle meat....

[Kyoto Returnee]

If you're a super-obese person like the ones you easily find in your country, just follow the advices from your government.
The higher marcury concentration isn't only for whatle meat....

I haven't realy looked for the Obese, although they are definitely their.

I'll keep the mercury threat in mind for sure;-)

[Chi65]

It seems, one needs an extra thread with the details about the symptoms about not only mercury poisonings. But that alone is worth more attention. . .

Autism is also related, and the early smptoms and those on cats in Minamata etc. I am sure, much is broomed under the carpets, because not seen as related, same as in Minamata.

One should really do some research about the amount of appearing related deseaes in Japan. Its really time!

[Kyoto Returnee]

One should really do some research about the amount of appearing related deseaes in Japan. Its really time!

I totally agree as stress disease in Japan is a huge problem coming from my wife who was a psychiatric nurse their.

It c auses huge problems in Japanese soc iet y and makes members of the population do all sorts of dangerous and un-predic t able things.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/depression/submerged-stress-in-japan/2006/06/14/1149964602274.html

The mercury problem sounds very scary indeed.

[Chi65]

Well, stress is one side indeed, but if the other problem adds to it in the fututer, it will become even more unpredictable. Particularly, because it does not show immeditely, but when it might very well already be too late. Imagine, how many children have been fed for longer now with that kind of nerve killing amount. . .I dare not to paint the result later on, not to mention the amount of grown ups, who feel into the "health food" traps or bought that stuff because it was on cheap offer. Such strategies would be called criminal hereabout. If others than the closely connected researchers can measure the incgredients later (and there were some who did it on samples in markets, with pretty similar results, even before), then it shows, that it has been there all the time, but kept in silence. This would be a big scandal hereabout and the whole industry or whoever made such a strategy, be sued. What kind of government is this over there??

If they behave this way about such a meat, imagine, how much responsibility they show in general then. (not that I would trust ours much more, by the way)

What makes it even more annoying, is the fact, that some (violently!) still think, its OK.

There was a time, where I was about to trust Japanese, mostly in general, because of their fair and friendly behaviour (Privately they still may though, amongst my friends), but the more other things I hear, the more I am worried, where it all goes to.
Somehow, the "make up" has become too thick and obvious, and may itself cause more and more stress to keep it up, while it already can be seen for what it is. There is a point, when it becomes ridiculous. . .

(no, it does not work in reverse, I am using less and less, because I love natural ways, grey hair and wrinkles ;-))

I am with those, who try to escape it in a natural way out (as one film here just described in a very fine way of getting in tune with simply "being"), not growing agressions or projecting their own behaviour onto others.
Watching dolphins and whales instead of letting their agressions out on them may be another fine way. . .and very well a growing path.
In my opinion. This would be beneficial for all sides.

[Goldiegirl]

Mercury affects all people. If you are smaller, a smaller intake of mercury is just as bad there is no distinction to weight. And if you are alluding that all Japanese are skinny, then I am afraid you are sadly mistaken or have your eyes closed. It is a sad day when people want to hold on to part of the past only to wreak havoc on their future. Your children are your most cherished and precious they should be protected, and it shouldn't have to be forced. You would hope that people would want the best for their future....

[Chi65]

Exactly, thanks for pointing towards this, Goldiegirl.
I have several japanese friends with children over there and would very well fight for them. Count on me!. . .(You are one of the lights in this forum!)

[pipokun]

One of the reasons why Japanese people are skinny is that the diet, esp., fish broth (dashi) based foods containing lots of umami, curbs other food cravings such as oily and sweet foods. So people do not need unreasonable calorie intake.

Life expectancy is not much different between mercury-contaminated people and super obese people, so it is just up to you if you are careful about food.

millions of stressed-out Japanese will go to any lengths for momentary release from packed commuter trains,
The trains are deadly silent, though the announcements from railway companies are a bit annoying.

[Goldiegirl]

Back to mercury, skinny or not it's bad for you. If you are eating a lot of fish or whale that contain it, you will bear the negative affects of it or perhaps your unborn children.

[Chi65]

And its dangerously ignorant, to play this down, I have posted according videos and also even wiki threads, not to mention the Minamata event. I cannot excuse any comparision with usual diets. The alarm is on, and seriously dangerous. It will definitely show effects.

(and that has nothing to do with us warners)

[pipokun]

219 Japan   2.80
220 Sweden   2.76
221 Singapore   2.30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

Japan has a system called "Boshitecho", maternal and child health handbook, from your local government, and this has helped much for the lower infant mortality rate.

インドネシアにて、1989年から試験的に手帳の配布を開 始。有効性を認識した日本政府も支援に乗り出し、1998 年からは「母と子の健康手帳プロジェクト」として普及 が進められた。この結果、普及が進んだ地域では、数年 間で乳幼児の死亡率が半減する成果が得られたという。
An Idonesian gynecologist introduced the project from 1998, and gained good results.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AF%8D%E5%AD%90%E6%89%8B%E5%B8%B3

Goldiegirl Back to mercury, skinny or not it's bad for you. If you are eating a lot of fish or whale that contain it, you will bear the negative affects of it or perhaps your unborn children.
Thanks, but I don't want to be arrogant for nature to consume too much food.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Japan has a system called "Boshitecho", maternal and child health handbook, from your local government, and this has helped much for the lower infant mortality rate.

Possibly the lower infant rate may be a factor..

[Chi65]

That would then also fit Germany. . .

By the way, despite a high age (so far) in Japan, it does not say anything about their healthy in that age. . .nor about the health of children.
And since this has been a serious problem in Japan since lately, they may not appear as such anywhere in statistics.

[kkkktttt]

By the way, despite a high age (so far) in Japan, it does not say anything about their healthy in that age. . .nor about the health of children.
And since this has been a serious problem in Japan since lately, they may not appear as such anywhere in statistics.
WHO Issues New Healthy Life Expectancy Rankings
Japan Number One in New ‘Healthy Life’ System
Japanese have the longest healthy life expectancy of 74.5 years among 191 countries, versus less than 26 years for the lowest-ranking country of Sierra Leone, based on a new way to calculate healthy life expectancy developed by the World Health Organization (WHO).
Previously, life expectancy estimates were based on the overall length of life based on mortality data only.
For the first time, the WHO has calculated healthy life expectancy for babies born in 1999 based upon an indicator developed by WHO scientists, Disability Adjusted Life Expectancy (DALE). DALE summarizes the expected number of years to be lived in what might be termed the equivalent of "full health." To calculate DALE, the years of ill-health are weighted according to severity and subtracted from the expected overall life expectancy to give the equivalent years of healthy life.
The WHO rankings show that years lost to disability are substantially higher in poorer countries because some limitations -- injury, blindness, paralysis and the debilitating effects of several tropical diseases such as malaria -- strike children and young adults. People in the healthiest regions lose some 9 percent of their lives to disability, versus 14 percent in the worst-off countries.
In terms of DALE, the rest of the top 10 nations are Australia, 73.2 years; France, 73.1; Sweden, 73.0; Spain, 72.8; Italy, 72.7; Greece, 72.5; Switzerland, 72.5; Monaco, 72.4; and Andorra, 72.3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-life.html

[Chi65]

Thanks, but I do not mean people that die earlier via disabilities (since there are many kinds of, even a blind one would be in the following context, you do not necessarily loose years of your life, for example). More those that live with their disabilities, but may not appear on any surface as such, nor the amount of them.
I do not know, if we have that either.
Anyhow, if you only count the very healthy ones, so to say, there still maybe many others in a kind of twilight zone, and changing in numbers.
Where would all the bent backs be for example?
And are mongoloids or autistics having a lesser lifespan or not??(I simply don't know)
If not, that seems to be ignored in such a calculation, if I am not mistaken.
In which case there might well be a rising number of disabled (in whichever country), but not noticed as such.

[Half-n-Half]

And are mongoloids or autistics having a lesser lifespan or not??(I simply don't know)

Mongoloids? Do you mean people of Mongol descent or east Asians in general? Or are you referring to people with Down Syndrome? If you are referring to those with Down Syndrome, its not a very polite term to use; it is often seen as a racial slur. Just a friendly heads up :wave:.

[Chi65]

Mongoloids? Do you mean people of Mongol descent or east Asians in general? Or are you referring to people with Down Syndrome? If you are referring to those with Down Syndrome, its not a very polite term to use; it is often seen as a racial slur. Just a friendly heads up :wave:.
Not so hereabout, sorry to hear this, and thanks for the remark. I will try to consider it then, of course, just trying my best in another language.
friendly :wave: back to you, even if you might have thought, I ignore you. It was all a bit too fast and much lately, sorry, very sorry indeed.
Can you forgive me?
:bow: