God-Emperor

[Chi65]

Since something seems to grow again in Japan, it might be interesting, to read this old article in full length (6 pages!):

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,852228-1,00.html


I cannot say much to it right now, but since it is up again for public use, it should be read, whatever side you are on, and hopefuly from all sides, not just the wild flamers.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I don't think I've ever a met a Japanese person who (still) believed the emporer was a god.

However, if people do think that, it is scary indeed.

I certainly don't think that the emporer is a god or divine. He is, however, the "symbol of Japan" according to the constitution, whatever that means.

[Uncle Frank]

President Bush is not a God?? Surely he descended from heaven?

Uncle Frank

:blush:

[Chi65]

President Bush is not a God?? Surely he descended from heaven?
Uncle Frank
:blush:

Good answer indeed, could have come from me, hehe, particularly since Japan is siding with him nowadays, which blows the whole racism theory into pieces.

Anyhow, read all the pages, please, its very interesting, also in comparision to today.

[Chi65]

Because it is. . . . . .which is not dependant on arms, and its not only the other asians that say so. I never did, even tried to show the opposite, but with those slaps into my face as thanks, I cancel the friendship and do now say the same as above. (which does not include my wonderfull japanese friends)

I don't think I've ever a met a Japanese person who (still) believed the emporer was a god.

I did, and particularly here in the Forum. . .

[kireikoori]

I don't think I've ever a met a Japanese person who (still) believed the emporer was a god.
What about the divine lineage of the royal family?

[Chi65]

What about the divine lineage of the royal family?

Sorry, but thats a clear "make up". . .

[Mikawa Ossan]

What about the divine lineage of the royal family?
Yep, that too. No one believes that.

------------------------------------------

[caster51]

What about the divine lineage of the royal family?
at least for 1400 years , their lineage is sucseed.(it is a kind of miracle)
and all japanese know Myth is myth
so is Jesus Christ.

God-Emperor ,He died at end of the Showa era.
However, everybody can become a god according to Japanese religious
sense.

when he died, I think most Japanese was so nervous and nostalgia
everybody thought Showa, that is, God-Emperor had finished.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=G8D15iezQQU

[Chi65]

You forget, that he himself said, that he is no god. Thus an emperor died, and thats it.

General royal bloodlines are OK, those are all over the world, for many.

[caster51]

You forget, that he himself said, that he is no god. Thus an emperor died, and thats it.
he never said so.
this propaganda was made by mass media.
at least,
I can not read so as human Declaration

he never said " I become a human"

朕と汝ら国民との紐帯は、終始相互の信頼と敬愛とによりて結ばれ、単なる神話と伝説によりて生ぜるものにあ らず。天皇をもって現御神（あきつかみ）とし、かつ日本国民をもって他の民族に優越せる民族として、ひいて 世界を支配すべき使命を有すとの架空なる観念に基づくものにもあらず。

propaganda translation
The ties between Us and Our people have always stood upon mutual trust and affection. They do not depend upon mere legends and myths. They are not predicated on the false conception that the Emperor is divine, and that the Japanese people are superior to other races and fated to rule the world

I think this translation is wrong

[Chi65]

What a joke. . .he IS a human,
similar propaganda made him a "god", all wellknown.

And a bloodline(!) to Amaterasu, excuse me, but thats an even bigger joke. If she would have been real and realised, what was done in her name, wow, I do not wish to be in their places. . .

I am glad, that the Dalai Lama clearly says, that he is just a monk. . .
for that I give him a five star "holy" = real wise person

Some are honest, some not.

BTW, my family also dates back to the 14th century, through royals as well, and my granddad was invited to the Chinese court, with a russian prince, not that I am particularly proud about it. But Royals are everywhere. And on my side, some served in the criminalistic department.
And others were just upcoming peasants in my family, and I love them alike, they are even better in some ways (can "hear the grass grow" and the like), divine in their way. . .


Sherlock;-)

[hanachan]

Chi65
I can't understand what you are going to with this thread.
just insulting our tradition?
Anyway Japanese Emperor is God or not, we don't care.
He is just Japanese Emperor, we respect.

[Chi65]

Why should I insult?

Its an interesting topic and article to discuss.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I think this translation is wrongI looked over this, but I think the translation is pretty accurate. What do you think would be a better translation?

[Astroboy]

Conception of God

Conceptions of God vary widely. Theologians and philosophers have studied countless conceptions of God since the dawn of civilization. The Abrahamic conceptions of God include the trinitarian view of Christians, the Kabbalistic definition of Jewish mysticism, and the Islamic concept of God. The dharmic religions differ in their view of the divine: views of God in Hinduism vary by region, sect, and caste from monotheistic to polytheistic; the view of God in Buddhism is almost non-theist. In modern times, some more abstract concepts have been developed, such as process theology and open theism. Conceptions of God held by individual believers vary so widely that there is no clear consensus on the nature of God. The contemporaneous French philosopher Michel Henry has however proposed a phenomenological approach and definition of God as phenomenological essence of Life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Christianity - percentage by country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

Personally I believe that Christianity is very dangerous religion. Europe invaded the world with Christianity for the past centuries. Today NATO is invading Afghanistan, and USA is killing Muslim in Iraq.

AMEN.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Yep, that too. No one believes that.
------------------------------------------

About human being declaration of the Emperor,
Because it is written here in detail, please try to read.
Because it is written about process of English translation,
The history is interesting.
By examining it in various ways.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA%E9%96%93%E5%AE%A3%E8%A8%80

I have asked the grandmother in childhood, About "Emperor's human declaration".
She seems not to have been surprised.
From the past,
Because the Emperor was not "God" and thought that it was a normal human being,
"The human being declaration of the Emperor" was a message to the foreigner that a superstition was deep.

She worked in a coal mine.
After the war,
The Emperor Showa did an Imperial tour and encouraged the nation.
His Majesty the Emperor went down to the yard of a coal mine and encouraged miners.
She seem to have born a grudge against the Emperor,
Because she lived a painful life.
However, because the Emperor Showa came,
She seems to have watched bright future hope.
She said to me , "She was very glad".
She seems to have thought,
"I do my best for Japan"

http://homepage1.nifty.com/yamada/mikawaswe3.htm

[Mikawa Ossan]

Word choice and translations and conflicting motives and interpretations......The deeper you know things the less you know....

I will start a new thread on this topic.

[Chi65]

Thanks, Hiroyuki Nagashima, that was an interesting post!
I would like to say, that I do understand very well, how she felt, no matter, what else I write. Please keep that in mind!

We have to put into account, that any public "leader" can be seen as a god by those, who wish to. Thats not just valid for Japan.
If you go further in that posted article link, you will have the comparisions with Germany. . .and if you can see the Yasukuni film, that will be shown in Japan from up April, you will find out more in common. In fact, a wild mix of old german military behaviour of all kinds, plus beard style and uniform. It reminds us clearly not only on Emperor (Kaiser) Wilhelm, but also on, well, yes, sorry, but true, on Goebbels and Hitler, all in one pot indeed.
Including the choice of theme and goal. Certain things, like "freeing Asia" and "only defending" plus is exactly like our former behavior. And if someone would insist in this interpretation of the past war here, plus coming with recent research about the holocaust as being a lie, he would have to face severe punishment for this misleading.

And one has to put into account, that Hitler very well was like a if not the god for many at that time. Otherwise it all would not have happened.
The shock came later, as often in such stories.

Dictatorship is dictatorship in all variations. And so far, every dictator tried to be seen as an unfailable god to justify all actions incl. murder as godsent. . .no matter which religion.
And thats exactly the problem. A typical misuse and better to be seen with much care and suspicion.

[caster51]

Thanks, Hiroyuki Nagashima, that was an interesting post!
I would like to say, that I do understand very well, how she felt, no matter, what else I write. Please keep that in mind!

We have to put into account, that any public "leader" can be seen as a god by those, who wish to. Thats not just valid for Japan.
If you go further in that posted article link, you will have the comparisions with Germany. . .and if you can see the Yasukuni film, that will be shown in Japan from up April, you will find out more in common. In fact, a wild mix of old german military behaviour of all kinds, plus beard style and uniform. It reminds us clearly not only on Emperor (Kaiser) Wilhelm, but also on, well, yes, sorry, but true, on Goebbels and Hitler, all in one pot indeed.
Including the choice of theme and goal. Certain things, like "freeing Asia" and "only defending" plus is exactly like our former behavior. And if someone would insist in this interpretation of the past war here, plus coming with recent research about the holocaust as being a lie, he would have to face severe punishment for this misleading.

And one has to put into account, that Hitler very well was like a if not the god for many at that time. Otherwise it all would not have happened.
The shock came later, as often in such stories.

Dictatorship is dictatorship in all variations. And so far, every dictator tried to be seen as an unfailable god to justify all actions incl. murder as godsent. . .no matter which religion.
And thats exactly the problem. A typical misuse and better to be seen with much care and suspicion.
I think this has nothing to do with Tenno

hey chi65: when do you understand the situation of tenno(emperor) LOL
Japanese tenno is not dictator, leader or a man of power at all even at that time

[Chi65]

I think this has nothing to do with Tenno
hey chi65: when do you understand the situation of tenno(emperor) LOL
Japanese tenno is not dictator, leader or a man of power at all even at that time

Wellknown, those people around too. . .I mentioned it somewhere else.

[caster51]

After the war, GHQ announced emperor's assets was 1.6 billion yen.
however no Japanese was surprised at that and nobody felt anything..
Monarchs in any country other than Japan also have the enormous money and property which it deprived from the people.
When the revolution, the war, and the political change occur, such a monarch aims at defecting at once for the guarantee of own life and the maintenance of the property.
Therefore, GHQ might have started to open the property of the emperor family to public, and wanted to make the public backlash.

There is not interests opposition between Tenno and the people at all.


USA mede a mistake in Iraq.
There is no existence like the emperor in Iraq.
Japan would likely have become like Iraq if there was no emperor in
Japan.
Kim Jong-il , if something will happen.....then

Naturally, Tenno is a human.
anyway, Tenno as a god , divine or whatever, had finished once by his death ..

BTW
When I was a junior high school student,........I recall old photograph which students attended tokyo olympic torch relay and of the imperial tour in the principal's office.
Imperial tour
1946 chiba
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=1bRgp8xTTX0
1947 hiroshima
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=-XtxdtxWLj8

[caster51]

She seem to have born a grudge against the Emperor,
Because she lived a painful life.
However, because the Emperor Showa came,
She seems to have watched bright future hope.
She said to me , "She was very glad".
She seems to have thought,
"I do my best for Japan"
http://sea.ap.teacup.com/nikkeif/3.html
:(

[hanachan]

http://sea.ap.teacup.com/nikkeif/3.html
:(
Thanks a lot, Caster san! 不覚にも泣けました:(

Just I know... Japan is a state of mind, it is deep in my heart.
Anyway this is my country.

[Chi65]

Nothing against loving Japan, I love it myself and for long and also my works about this are all over in public and private places ;-)

And I will not forget the good sides, no matter, what.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Thanks a lot, Caster san! 不覚にも泣けました:(
Just I know... Japan is a state of mind, it is deep in my heart.
Anyway this is my country.
Postwar Japan
http://pc-kirakukan.jp/sankei_kiji20071106.html
boy carrying his dead brother to a crematorium.
佐世保から長崎に入った私は、小高い丘の上から下を眺 め
ていました。すると白いマスクをかけた男達が目に入り まし
た。男達は60センチ程の深さにえぐった穴のそばで作業をし
ていました。荷車に山積みにした死体を石灰の燃える穴 の
中に次々と入れていたのです。
10歳ぐらいの少年が歩いてくるのが目に留まりました。 お
んぶひもをたすきにかけて、幼子を背中に背負っていま す。
弟や妹をおんぶしたまま、広っぱで遊んでいる子供の姿 は
当時の日本でよく目にする光景でした。しかし、この少 年の
様子ははっきりと違っています。重大な目的を持ってこ の焼
き場にやってきたという強い意志が感じられました。し かも
裸足です。少年は焼き場のふちまで来ると、硬い表情で 目
を凝らして立ち尽くしています。背中の赤ん坊はぐっす り眠
っているのか、首を後ろにのけぞらせたままです。
少年は焼き場のふちに、5分か10分も立っていたでしょ� ､か。
白いマスクの男達がおもむろに近づき、ゆっくりとおん ぶひも
を解き始めました。この時私は、背中の幼子が既に死ん で
いる事に初めて気付いたのです。男達は幼子の手と足を 持
つとゆっくりと葬るように、焼き場の熱い灰の上に横た えま
した。
まず幼い肉体が火に溶けるジューという音がしました。
それからまばゆい程の炎がさっと舞い立ちました。真っ 赤な
夕日のような炎は、直立不動の少年のまだあどけない頬を
赤く照らしました。その時です、炎を食い入るように見 つめる
少年の唇に血がにじんでいるのに気が付いたのは。少年 が
あまりきつく噛み締めている為、唇の血は流れる事もな く、
ただ少年の下唇に赤くにじんでいました。夕日のような炎が
静まると、少年はくるりときびすを返し、沈黙のまま焼 き場を
去っていきました」http://www.lootone.com/poem/war.jpg
Joseph R. O'Donnell September 1945
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2007/08/16/joseph_odonnell_captured_images_of_hiroshima_5_pre sidencies/

[Chi65]

May I suggest to write or translate into english, please? This is not the japanese only thread to my knowledge.

[otoko]

After the war, GHQ announced emperor's assets was 1.6 billion yen.
however no Japanese was surprised at that and nobody felt anything..
Monarchs in any country other than Japan also have the enormous money and property which it deprived from the people.
When the revolution, the war, and the political change occur, such a monarch aims at defecting at once for the guarantee of own life and the maintenance of the property.
Therefore, GHQ might have started to open the property of the emperor family to public, and wanted to make the public backlash.
There is not interests opposition between Tenno and the people at all.
USA mede a mistake in Iraq.
There is no existence like the emperor in Iraq.
Japan would likely have become like Iraq if there was no emperor in
Japan.
Kim Jong-il , if something will happen.....then
Naturally, Tenno is a human.
anyway, Tenno as a god , divine or whatever, had finished once by his death ..
BTW
When I was a junior high school student,........I recall old photograph which students attended tokyo olympic torch relay and of the imperial tour in the principal's office.



Now I also don't really think Iraq was a great idea. But your reasoning is simplistic. Iraq was a state that was created, formally the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was divided up after World War 1. They didn't pay attention to the the different ethnicities and religious factions so all these different people were made to live under the banner of one country called Iraq. So it would not have been possible for them to have an Emperor. Actually they had the least sectarian violence under Saddam because he was a dictator. He managed to create a secular society, and tried to unite then under the idea of arab unity.

Whether one is against or supports the Iraq war, it is important to understand the history of the middle east. After the Vietnam War, the Middle East was not even on the Americas radar. They had no plan to deal with instability in the MIddle East, they didn't even know if they needed to. Everything was geared towards the Soviet Union. Think tanks within the government started to examine what risks there were. One was if a hostile power where to invade and take over the oil. They then reasoned what if a country within the region were to invade its neighbors and take over the oil creating tremendous instability in the world. Way before(we are talking late 70s, early 80s) Saddam invaded Kuwait they had already reasoned that Iraq invading Kuwait was very possible and highly probable. Since there defeat in Vietnam they decided it would be best to have a regional power police the region. Iran was determined to be the best qualified. They sold arms to the Shah, though they underestimated his stability. He was a dictator, yes, but one that they felt they could influence to take democratic reforms. Ironically pushing too fast too hard he was over come by revolution. He was out of touch. The groups that came together for the revolution could not come up with a way to govern so Islamic hardliners took over in the vacuum.

With that failure in relying on regional powers to take care of things brought forth the notion that America would have to do that.

Of course other countries Japan for example have been able to get oil strictly through negotiation, there have been times where even that would not have been possible without the US military presence in the region.

In hindsight the Iraq war looks like a inevitable result of over decades of securing the middle east. They messed it up pretty bad, the mistakes are documented. Democracy takes decades even centuries to mature, yet they are demanding Iraq be one now. They should have planned for a long occupation.

Long term national interests(securing energy) seem to be what middle east policy is about. Which in itself is not a bad idea. It is good for the world in the long term also. The manner in which they have gone about it though is flawed.

[Chi65]

Why Iraq here?. . . .

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

January 6, 2003
THREATS AND RESPONSES: THE WHITE HOUSE; U.S. IS COMPLETING PLAN TO PROMOTE A DEMOCRATIC IRAQ
The proposals, according to administration officials who have been developing them for several months, have been discussed informally with Mr. Bush in considerable detail. They would amount to the most ambitious American effort to administer a country since the occupations of Japan and Germany at the end of World War II. With Mr. Bush's return here this afternoon, his principal foreign policy advisers are expected to shape the final details in White House meetings and then formally present them to the president.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07E2DE143EF935A35752C0A9659C8B 63

President Commemorates 60th Anniversary of V-J Day
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050830-1.html

The American President said,
I "assume Japanese occupation time a model" in an Iraqi occupation policy
Thus did it succeed?

[Mars Man]

お願いします・・・皆様 (onegaishimasu ・・・ minasama ~ please. . . everyone)

As in accordance with the theme of the OP, I suggest that we keep the thread on topic, as being concerned with the emperor of Japan's--past or present or future--being divine, of divine nature, or of supernatural descent in any way.

Please do not wander from that. Embedding to support an argument or position is of course ok, but simply bringing up other matters is not. If Japanese is used, please do provide an English rendering, or ask someone who may be able and willing to help do so, to help out in that case.

やっぱ、日本語を使ったら英語の翻訳をも書いた方がいいですね。　(As we can understand, if we use Japanese, it would be nice to write an English translation as well)

Thanks folks !! MM

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

お願いします・・・皆様 (onegaishimasu ・・・ minasama ~ please. . . everyone)
As in accordance with the theme of the OP, I suggest that we keep the thread on topic, as being concerned with the emperor of Japan's--past or present or future--being divine, of divine nature, or of supernatural descent in any way.
Please do not wander from that. Embedding to support an argument or position is of course ok, but simply bringing up other matters is not. If Japanese is used, please do provide an English rendering, or ask someone who may be able and willing to help do so, to help out in that case.
やっぱ、日本語を使ったら英語の翻訳をも書いた方がい いですね。　(As we can understand, if we use Japanese, it would be nice to write an English translation as well)
Thanks folks !! MM

申し訳ありません。
Though I looked for English translation of a commentary, it was not found.
Because there was not the confidence that I could translate into English, I copied it in Japanese.

[Kyoto Returnee]

and so true, which ultimately saw Japan suffer more than it should have, at least in the eyes of the "Aliens".

You will notice today that Japanese have a very strong and determined will of mind, they HAVE to get their point accross, and if they believe they are "correct", they will not give up and that's that! Stuff everybody else mentality.

It's gates opened not so long ago, although their still apppears to be some stoppage of sorts..

Things are changing, albeit slowly, as the country modernizers and struggles to internationalize with regular debate..

It does resemble a see-saw, up and down, back and fourth with Alien cards, etc.

Let's hope for the sake of it's children that it straightens itself out soon.

[Chi65]

and so true, which ultimately saw Japan suffer more than it should have, at least in the eyes of the "Aliens".

You will notice today that Japanese have a very strong and determined will of mind, they HAVE to get their point accross, and if they believe they are "correct", they will not give up and that's that! Stuff everybody else mentality.

It's gates opened not so long ago, although their still apppears to be some stoppage of sorts..

Things are changing, albeit slowly, as the country modernizers and struggles to internationalize with regular debate..

It does resemble a see-saw, up and down, back and fourth with Alien cards, etc.

Let's hope for the sake of it's children that it straightens itself out soon.


Thats basically a psychological reason, as I had explained on several points before. But it does not make a fanatical point more right, in fact, it makes lots of enemies. I have hardly ever seen so many dictators on one place like here. . .unthinkable on other forums, that I attend.

Yes, I do hope, that the internationalisations change the picture again, from within, preferably. I am all for this!

[Kyoto Returnee]

But it does not make a fanatical point more right, in fact, it makes lots of enemies. I have hardly ever seen so many dictators on one place like here. . .unthinkable on other forums, that I attend.

Yes, I do hope, that the internationalisations change the picture again, from within, preferably. I am all for this!

It does make enemies and that's the problem.

Japan appears to be struggling to be part of the international democratic community.

Their are many laws and agreements out their with our countries, and Japan is well known for not complying or being a part, although it likes to be known as a friend.

It is also well known for not thinking about what other countries think, but rather hell bent avoiding and ultimately ignoring..

[hanachan]

We have to put into account, that any public "leader" can be seen as a god by those, who wish to. Thats not just valid for Japan.
If you go further in that posted article link, you will have the comparisions with Germany. . .and if you can see the Yasukuni film, that will be shown in Japan from up April, you will find out more in common. In fact, a wild mix of old german military behaviour of all kinds, plus beard style and uniform. It reminds us clearly not only on Emperor (Kaiser) Wilhelm, but also on, well, yes, sorry, but true, on Goebbels and Hitler, all in one pot indeed.
Including the choice of theme and goal. Certain things, like "freeing Asia" and "only defending" plus is exactly like our former behavior. And if someone would insist in this interpretation of the past war here, plus coming with recent research about the holocaust as being a lie, he would have to face severe punishment for this misleading.

And one has to put into account, that Hitler very well was like a if not the god for many at that time. Otherwise it all would not have happened.
The shock came later, as often in such stories.

Dictatorship is dictatorship in all variations. And so far, every dictator tried to be seen as an unfailable god to justify all actions incl. murder as godsent. . .no matter which religion.
And thats exactly the problem. A typical misuse and better to be seen with much care and suspicion.

Please say clearly.
As for your claim, Japanese Emperor has war responsibility, and is it still to be strange that a position of Japanese Emperor is kept?
I wonder why you made this thread as a political topic not a culture & tradition.
:souka:

Of course you may discuss anything freely here. Anyone can do.
Go ahead.

Just I leave here.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Please say clearly.
As for your claim, Japanese Emperor has war responsibility, and is it still to be strange that a position of Japanese Emperor is kept?


The soldiers were ordered to fight until death for the emperor, were they not?

The Emperor is still in power of sorts, and his position is still engaged?

[Chi65]

It does make enemies and that's the problem.

Japan appears to be struggling to be part of the international democratic community.

Their are many laws and agreements out their with our countries, and Japan is well known for not complying or being a part, although it likes to be known as a friend.

It is also well known for not thinking about what other countries think, but rather hell bent avoiding and ultimately ignoring..
Again, a typical islander mentality on one side. . .but sad enough also downright egocentric. when I realised first, that some japanese former friends in Germany started to take without even thanking, and when I got this confirmed by several others too, I was wondering, whats going on suddenly, but closed my doors for some. (not all, of course, real friends are real friends).
I drastically reduced my helps to zero, although they kept on calling and waving. A certain arrogance and onesidednes is out of my door immediately. No matter from whom or which colour.
This has to be considered to also become a reason for others to close the doors.
It has in fact quite some roots into the "being superior" thinkings, and that is dangerous in general, be it Islam, or Jews or whatnot and in most cases leads to war. Often declared as defence (with mostly hilarious reasons) first to justify it. Very important first signs very often, "racist card". . .particularly projected onto others.

It also shows on smaller, gender level, by the way. Then it is usually time for a divorce.

The soldiers were ordered to fight until death for the emperor, were they not?
The Emperor is still in power of sorts, and his position is still engaged?
Sure, it can happen again, any time.

[Dutch Baka]

Sure, it can happen again, any time.
That's just nonsense. I think less of 500 people would fight for the emperor right now. So what do you mean with it can happen again, any time.

[undrentide]

That's just bs. I think less of 500 people would fight for the emperor right now. So what do you mean with it can happen again, any time.

I agree with your comments, DB. :)

Focusing on the extreme right wing people around Yasukuni and talking about it as if it were the whole Japanese population would surely lead one to say such a thing like "it can happen again, any time".
To me it is something similar to see those into Neo Nazism in Germany and say "it can happen again, any time".

[otoko]

The soldiers were ordered to fight until death for the emperor, were they not?

The Emperor is still in power of sorts, and his position is still engaged?

The Emperor has no power. Engaged in nothing that could influence policy.

[Goldiegirl]

What does the current Emperor think of himself? The only thing I ever hear while in Japan is about the "poor Princess" who didn't have a male child. No one even mentions the Emperor.

[otoko]

What does the current Emperor think of himself? The only thing I ever hear while in Japan is about the "poor Princess" who didn't have a male child. No one even mentions the Emperor.

I don't think we will find out what the Emperor thinks of himself. The Imperial household keeps everybody under wraps. Anyway he doesn't really matter much. Emperor Showa is the one who gets debated about in history.

[pipokun]

...
To me it is something similar to see those into Neo Nazism in Germany and say "it can happen again, any time".

Have you ever heard of any hate crimes here during the lost 20 years?
Nothing similar at all... I think Chi65 would kindly enlighten us on what they are really like.

*snip
In my opinin, "stop and question" by the police in Germany is a bit scarier for me than the shokumu shitsumon in Japan. This is partly because they did not ride 50cc mini-bikes there.

[Kyoto Returnee]

That's just bs. I think less of 500 people would fight for the emperor right now. So what do you mean with it can happen again, any time.

I believe Chi was very clear..

It's often said it "can happen again"

Anything is possible and it seems to be a constant battle of fighters..

Goldie girl is right..

When I was their, nothing was spoken of the man himself, but all focus was on the bullying of his daughter-in-law and all the stress she faced..

I can only imagine what went on behind closed doors!

[otoko]

[QUOTE=Kyoto Returnee;557639]I believe Chi was very clear..

It's often said it "can happen again"

Anything is possible and it seems to be a constant battle of fighters..

It is bs.

Often said by who? The right-wingers themselves? Wishful thinking of course.

[undrentide]

Have you ever heard of any hate crimes here during the lost 20 years?

The only thing so far that comes to my mind is that when there're some problems related to Korea (North or South), some Korean school girls in Japan (who can be identified because they were wearing their traditional costume as their uniform) were attached by some Japanese idiots.

But what I wanted to say in my previous post is not that Japanese right winger and Neo Nazism people are the same, I wanted to say that to take a minority as if they were typical and the whole population were like them is not fair and not a good way to get a proper conclusion.

[Chi65]

How comes, that the pro whalers, who are thought to be the majority (not just 500, right?) are using the same right winger terms then?. . .like our neo Nazis, exactly so, including the denial of the holocaust even, only "japanese way".
Its thus no BS at all and wellknown.

[undrentide]

How comes, that the pro whalers, who are thought to be the majority (not just 500, right?) is using the same right winger terms then?. . .like our neo Nazis, exactly so, including the denial of the holocaust even, only "japanese way".
Its thus no BS at all and wellknown.

I believe this thread is to discuss about if many of the Japanese regard Emperor = god, not about whaling, Right?
You're dragging the whale issue into where you are expected to discuss about the Japanese Emperor (and right-wingers) and you started talking about this issue where people are talking about whaling.
Can you please stay on the topic and not to mix up the issues you have?

When we have discussion on something, the most important thing is to talk based on the facts and truth, not wild assumption or generalization.

[Chi65]

I believe this thread is to discuss about if many of the Japanese regard Emperor = god, not about whaling, Right?
You're dragging the whale issue into where you are expected to discuss about the Japanese Emperor (and right-wingers) and you started talking about this issue where people are talking about whaling.
Can you please stay on the topic and not to mix up the issues you have?
When we have discussion on something, the most important thing is to talk based on the facts and truth, not wild assumption or generalization.

I suggest, that you read the whole article from the link of the first post. . .

That also includes some "byproducts" of that emperor-cult and leads very well to the above too.
And since the right wingers and the emperor model very well have a relation and as such there was an according question. . .for which the pro-whalers are very well included. . .(I would like to leave them out, but that would be wrong, after all we have seen and heard lately)

No need to play the schoolmaster here, please. I am old and experienced enough, to know exactly what I do. There is no generalisation at all.
I gave some simple and provable facts, if you please recognise them.
But it is not necessary to go any deeper ino this, OK.

[otoko]

How comes, that the pro whalers, who are thought to be the majority (not just 500, right?) are using the same right winger terms then?. . .like our neo Nazis, exactly so, including the denial of the holocaust even, only "japanese way".
Its thus no BS at all and wellknown.

You are full of it. You say somehow the Japanese majority is racist/rightwing/ultranationalist. The only facts here are that they are a minority. Whatever the number maybe be, reports have it ranging from 500-1000. They are the ones driving around in their black trucks, and wearing military uniforms while going through physical exercise at Yasukuni. They are the ones who are so extreme they will set people's houses on fire(which I think qualifies as terrorism). There are right-wingers in the government as well. Every government has them.

You jump to the conclusion that most whalers are right-wingers. Since the majority of the Japanese apparently support whaling that must mean they are right-wingers as well.

You can't seem to get by the fact that a vocal minority does not have to be representive of the entire population, even if they somehow agree on the issue of whaling.

You have it in your head that whaling is evil. This is the only acceptable view for you. That is fine, you are entitled to this opinion. I am sure you believe it is a fact and the only truth possible. Which takes it beyond being a mere opinion. You are blind to the fact that normal people with no ill intentions can think that sure maybe some whaling is ok.

Anyway this thread is not about whaling. That you can somehow insinuate a small minority is indicative of what the majority thinks is bs. That whaling means you are a right-winger is bs. You insult and put-down any dissenting opinion. If anybody is attempting to suppress debate it is you. You clearly state what you say are facts. You are full of it.

[Kyoto Returnee]

[quote]

It is bs.

Often said by who? .

Language, Please!

Often said by people who were directly and in-directly involved, and possibly by many other's.

I believe this thread is to discuss about if many of the Japanese regard Emperor = god, not about whaling, Right?
.

It would seem that way, but things lead to other things and greater debate, as surely you know form your posts, and many other topic threads on forums.

[Dutch Baka]

Well, let me play the school master then...

Let's get back to the topic.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Please say clearly.
As for your claim, Japanese Emperor has war responsibility, and is it still to be strange that a position of Japanese Emperor is kept?
I wonder why you made this thread as a political topic not a culture & tradition.


Of course you may discuss anything freely here. Anyone can do.
Go ahead.

Just I leave here.

hanachan

As Emperor from Japan, Hirohito was responsible for the war in Asia. But that does not mean that he was guilty?
Our Dutch Queen Wilhelmina declared war on Japan in on the 8th of December 1941, that is to say the she had the sign that declaration.
I suppose that likely has happened to your Emperor?
I know that not everybody feels the same, but I somehow believe that the God-Emperor from Japan had not really dreamed of a war in Asia, had not dreamed of having so many Japanese soldiers been getting killed in that war.
After all it was the God-Emperor who brought WWII to an end. And I can guess that such an act was very brave in those days of a horrible and crazy war!

[otoko]

[quote=otoko;557664]

Language, Please!

Often said by people who were directly and in-directly involved, and possibly by many other's.



It would seem that way, but things lead to other things and greater debate, as surely you know form your posts, and many other topic threads on forums.


Bs is bs.

Yeah said by the right-wingers themselves. Do you really believe then that this represents most Japanese? Do you believe that the majority of Japanese are right-wingers? That the Japanese can at anytime turn into extremists in the name of the Emperor?

Often said by those directly, sure this is true in regards to themselves. Those indirectly involved say what exactly? That they will die for the Emperor? And possibly by many others? "Possibly", so you don't really know. If you don't know for a fact why do say that? Anything is possible, that isn't an argument. That doesn't mean you license to say anything that is theoretically in the realm of possiblity as a fact to base your argument on. It is possible the sun won't come up tomorrow, you better stock up on flashlights and batteries. Why won't you do that? I mean it is of course "possible".

[Kyoto Returnee]

[quote=Kyoto Returnee;557900]


Bs is bs.

Yeah said by the right-wingers themselves. Do you really believe then that this represents most Japanese? Do you believe that the majority of Japanese are right-wingers? That the Japanese can at anytime turn into extremists in the name of the Emperor?


It would I'm sure represent Japanese and other nationals who were and were not directly involved.

"Right Wingers".. What on earth does that have to do with it?

The abbreviation BS is, I would have thought, not very nice for the sake of getting frustrated to people not following your opinions.

Please read the forum rules under "Inappropriate language"

[undrentide]

It would I'm sure represent Japanese and other nationals who were and were not directly involved.

"Right Wingers".. What on earth does that have to do with it?

The 2nd sentence makes me wonder why you're posting here without understanding the issue discussed here...?
I'd like to suggest you to read the post #51 "The only fact here..."
It is the right-wingers extremists who wants to revive the Emperor-God sort of society/country, which majority of the Japanese are against.

[Chi65]

May I suggest once more to read the whole original article? See 1rst post.

Whoever uses certain terms is exactly that extreme. . .or at least about to become this.

[pipokun]

I think it is just ridiculous to judge the present from the article on May 21, 1945, and vice versa. So tell me what you really want to say with the article.

The police arrests anyone, right or left, who hurt someone/something in Japan. Don't worry.

[otoko]

[QUOTE]It would I'm sure represent Japanese and other nationals who were and were not directly involved.

"Right Wingers".. What on earth does that have to do with it?

The abbreviation BS is, I would have thought, not very nice for the sake of getting frustrated to people not following your opinions.

Please read the forum rules under "Inappropriate language"

The soldiers were ordered to fight until death for the emperor, were they not?

The Emperor is still in power of sorts, and his position is still engaged?

Above written by you.

Sure, it can happen again, any time.

Above written by Chi.

That's just bs. I think less of 500 people would fight for the emperor right now. So what do you mean with it can happen again, any time.

Written by Dutchbaka.

I believe Chi was very clear..

It's often said it "can happen again"

Anything is possible and it seems to be a constant battle of fighters..

Your response.

How comes, that the pro whalers, who are thought to be the majority (not just 500, right?) are using the same right winger terms then?. . .like our neo Nazis, exactly so, including the denial of the holocaust even, only "japanese way".
Its thus no BS at all and wellknown.

One of Chi's "facts". note the use of right-winger, and pro-whalers being the majority.

And since the right wingers and the emperor model very well have a relation and as such there was an according question. . .for which the pro-whalers are very well included. . .(I would like to leave them out, but that would be wrong, after all we have seen and heard lately)

Again Chi to the rescue.

It would I'm sure represent Japanese and other nationals who were and were not directly involved.

"Right Wingers".. What on earth does that have to do with it?

So if I mention right-wingers it has nothing to do with the topic?

[Mars Man]

I reason that this thread has nothing left to add, perhaps, to the political scene in Japan today, and may be more history related. For that reason, and in accordance with the wishes of the OP, this thread will be closed until further notice, or the actions of others on the staff, or forever.