Visa question :) (Another no degree Q, but not what you think ;) )

[melonpie]

Hello! I'm heading back to Japan on a Working Holiday Visa, and my intentions were to simply holiday and work but a friend of mine presented me a proposition that I am now taking into consideration. In any case, if I do agree, we will of course be consulting with her lawyer, but just wondering if anyone here has seen any cases such as this and if the outcome was successful or not.
Basically, she just started her own English school in Tokyo, (not in the process of or trying to, she's actually got everything finished and ready to run), but it's not your normal English language school. Basically, it's a school directed towards the youth of Tokyo and is intended entirely for the purpose of teaching actual conversational/slang English spoke by today's youth. This is the entire basis of the school, and the description as it was registered under. Basically, she offered me a job position at her school, with visa sponsorship, however, I'm not finished with University, and if I did take on her offer, I planned on finishing through online courses. Her argument is that she only wants to hire young native English speakers, so she prefers people who are basically 25 and under. She is 25 years old herself. I know for a fact that immigrations require English instructors to have 4 year BA degrees, but I've never heard of any cases in which the school was intended for teaching Slang only. Would immigration demand a 4 year degree in such an unique case as this? Technically, if everything were to work out, I would be receiving a visa for teaching English, so I'm confused as to how immigration would handle such a case as this. The school is going to be located in Shibuya, and as shallow as it may sound, she only wants young good looking employees to attract young students to her school. I'm still considering whether I will take her offer up or not, because teaching wasn't my life-long goal in life, as I am an artist. But given the situation of the creative teaching atmosphere and structure, and the basis of the school, it sounds quite tempting and completely tolerable and perhaps even fun for someone like myself. However, I have read the many horror stories about applying for a working visa in Japan, and I am having a tough time deciding whether taking up her offer would result in a total waste of time, being that I do not have a physical diploma in my hands yet, despite fitting completely and entirely fitting the criteria of the said position in her school. And if anyone has anything smart to say about her not finding any students for the school due to impracticality, (hehe :P) she already teaches well over 100 students on her own, through private lessons, which all plan on attending the school as soon as it is up and running.
Being such a specific case, I highly doubt anyone has been through a similar experience hehe, but never hurts to ask I say. :)
Any insight is much appreciated.
Thank you :-)
P.S. As you may have guessed, I am quite young. 21 to be exact. And I am a Canadian/US citizen. (dual citizenship) if that helps any. :)

[nice gaijin]

Instead of asking us whether immigration would be willing to make an exception for you, perhaps you should try asking them yourself. Your situation doesn't seem to be particularly unique, outside of the fact that your potential employer is looking for young teachers (a group that is generally sans experience or college degrees--a requirement for most working visas). It's possible that in trying to limit her employee base to such a group, she is shooting herself in the foot.

If you are interested in this, you should take the time to contact immigration and present your case. Spare them the frivolous details, just tell them that you are there on a working visa, and have been offered a job and visa sponsorship by an English school (for young people if you want to be specific), but you do not yet have a degree or much work experience outside of what you are now doing. It might help that you are working towards your degree and that you might be able to complete it soon(?).

I have some thoughts on the concept for the school itself, but I'll get back to that later.

[made of stone]

It sounds like she's very keen to employ you - if so perhaps you're in a position to see if she'll take you on part-time on your working holiday visa. That way you can see how you like the job before committing at a later date (of your choosing) to a full-time contract, whilst also completing your degree by distance, settling into Japan, deciding what you really want, and all the while pursuing your artistic interests in your (plentiful) free time?

Best of all worlds as I see it!

[melonpie]

Thanks for the reply, nice gaijin.

Well, I wasn't necessarily asking if they'd make an exception of any sort, but rather exactly how would immigration go about approaching it, whether it would still be under an instructor's visa or humanities or what not. Just questioning out of curiosity really, to see if anyone has seen any similar cases or experience something of the sort or to see people's intake on the matter, because of course, if I decided to take her up on her offer, the first thing I would do is to make a visit to her immigrations lawyer, and immigrations office itself. :) So I wasn't quite hoping for replies with suggestions of what to do, I'm not distraught or anything. hehe. Just curious. Well, do you think it would be a waste of time, nice gaijin? :) Just looking for insight from the wiser I suppose.
Like I said, I'm not completely sure if I would want to go into teaching as a life-long career. Even when I finish with schooling and what not, the degree has nothing to do with Education what so ever, but I understand that any 4 year degree will do, unless they've changed that recently.

I didn't mean to sound haughty if that's how I came off, about this case being unique, it's just that I've been reading up on the whole visa thing in my spare time so much, and I've never seen any cases that sounded similar to this. So please don't take any offense :) My father is also a lawyer in the US and works hand in hand with immigrations sometimes, and he had his own thoughts on it, but I'd like to see what others think as well. I've read many questions about people wanting to obtain English teaching jobs with sponsorship without a degree, but none specifying that they intended to teach at a "slang school" of any sort. But maybe there is someone out there who has experienced such a similar case, or knows someone that has who knows. :)
hehe Maybe I shouldn't have gone so far into details about the school ;P I know a lot of older people probably look down upon the whole idea, a school for the sole purpose of teaching conversational English and slang used by today's youth. But everyone's open to their own opinions so oh well =).


Anyways, thanks!

It sounds like she's very keen to employ you - if so perhaps you're in a position to see if she'll take you on part-time on your working holiday visa. That way you can see how you like the job before committing at a later date (of your choosing) to a full-time contract, whilst also completing your degree by distance, settling into Japan, deciding what you really want, and all the while pursuing your artistic interests in your (plentiful) free time?
Best of all worlds as I see it!

Thanks! Yes, I was considering this. It wasn't in my original schedule, but it may be a life-changing decision for me so I just may go through with it, trying it out I mean. :)

[melonpie]

Oh, no idea if this is even worth mentioning, but the person who established this school never obtained a degree. Probably wasn't as the process for establishing a company/business is completely different. hehehe.
But anyways, any insight is appreciated and won't be shunned away. :) Thanks!
:wave:

[Glenski]

You cannot get a work visa at this point. You have to wait until you have finished your credits. Your friend cannot legally offer visa sponsorship right now, no matter how well-intentioned she is.

Work is allowed with a WHV, though, so go for that. If you eventually finish university, you will have to get a Humanities Specialist/International Relations work visa. The instructor visa is for public schools, not businesses like your friend's. Hers is not as unique a case as you make it out to be. She may want to teach only a limited type of students with a limited curriculum, but it's still an eikaiwa. Nothing more.

Oh, and many countries offer bachelor's degrees on 3-year programs, so don't think that immigration wants only a 4-year BA. Besides, you don't even need a degree at all to get a work visa if you can prove 3 or more years of teaching experience.

Basically, she just started her own English school in Tokyo, (not in the process of or trying to, she's actually got everything finished and ready to run), but it's not your normal English language school. Basically, it's a school directed towards the youth of Tokyo and is intended entirely for the purpose of teaching actual conversational/slang English spoke by today's youth. The school is going to be located in ShibuyaSorry to be pedantic, but look at the words above. "Ready". "Intended". "Going to be located." "which all plan on attending the school as soon as it is up and running". These are future implications, not present tense. She is NOT finished at this point and operating. I would approach with caution.

Personally, I think your friend is very shallow and not different from the stereotypes of eikaiwa that post(ed) signs of only young good-looking foreign teachers. Look around you. There really aren't that many attractive people in this world, beauty is only skin deep, and what one person thinks is good-looking is another person's ugliness.

To want to hire people 25 and younger is also bad for business, because most of those people have never held a FT job in their lives, let alone taught professionally. Your friend, as I personally see it, just wants naive people that she can boss around and fool into thinking she knows management. This has happened many times before. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear this, but that is my opinion based on 10 years of living/teaching here.

[melonpie]

You cannot get a work visa at this point. You have to wait until you have finished your credits. Your friend cannot legally offer visa sponsorship right now, no matter how well-intentioned she is.
Work is allowed with a WHV, though, so go for that. If you eventually finish university, you will have to get a Humanities Specialist/International Relations work visa. The instructor visa is for public schools, not businesses like your friend's. Hers is not as unique a case as you make it out to be. She may want to teach only a limited type of students with a limited curriculum, but it's still an eikaiwa. Nothing more.
Oh, and many countries offer bachelor's degrees on 3-year programs, so don't think that immigration wants only a 4-year BA. Besides, you don't even need a degree at all to get a work visa if you can prove 3 or more years of teaching experience.
Sorry to be pedantic, but look at the words above. "Ready". "Intended". "Going to be located." "which all plan on attending the school as soon as it is up and running". These are future implications, not present tense. She is NOT finished at this point and operating. I would approach with caution.
Personally, I think your friend is very shallow and not different from the stereotypes of eikaiwa that post(ed) signs of only young good-looking foreign teachers. Look around you. There really aren't that many attractive people in this world, beauty is only skin deep, and what one person thinks is good-looking is another person's ugliness.
To want to hire people 25 and younger is also bad for business, because most of those people have never held a FT job in their lives, let alone taught professionally. Your friend, as I personally see it, just wants naive people that she can boss around and fool into thinking she knows management. This has happened many times before. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear this, but that is my opinion based on 10 years of living/teaching here.

Thanks Glenski. Don't worry, if I wasn't prepared to hear posts such as this I wouldn't have made the thread at all :) Like I said, any insight is much appreciated. :) I didn't make this thread with the intention of hearing just one answer, it would be pointless don't you agree? hehe.
I should have been more specific and stated that as in finished, I meant she wasn't just thinking about starting the school, but rather she has gone through the whole process of legally establishing the business with the Japanese government. Sorry for the vagueness. :)
Thanks for your insight on this. It's much appreciated. But anyways, that's one of the reasons why I was weary about agreeing to hop on board with her school. I don't agree too much with the good looks ordeal, but the concept of the school and the way she's set everything up sounded quite interesting. However, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons she wants me aboard is because I dwindle in the world of fashion as a model, making a few magazine/TV appearances here and there, but nothing major. (This isn't meant in an egotistical manner what so ever, so please don't misunderstand. I'm just making a general statement here :) ) So this is one of the reasons which caused me to be hesitant in the decision. But after you have cleared things up, which is much appreciated mind you, I won't even waste my time with it. I'll just relax and enjoy the sites as I originally intended. Like I said, I'm not distraught or desperately wanting to reside in Japan. It was just a proposition that I had a little trouble figuring out how to go about. Thanks Glenski. :)

[melonpie]

If anyone has anything to say about the matter, I'll gladly listen. :) But please, I'm not here to pick fights or anything, I'm just a young kid looking for the honest opinions of those who are more experienced and wiser in this field. I'm not trying to prove anything. Thanks to everyone who posted so far. :)

[epigene]

I agree with everything Glenski said and you're right in your decision to follow his advice.

I'm just writing here to add my thoughts on this Japanese woman's school. Although it does sound interesting, I think the soundness of her approach questionable from the business perspective, if she is thinking of operating the school and keeping it financial stable for many years.

I bet young Japanese students would come from curiosity but don't see them staying long. I project extremely high student turnover compared to other schools who adopt the conventional approach and focused more on academic or business English. That would certainly cause serious financial problems in the not-so-distant future.

[Pachipro]

Sad as it is, anyone can operate an English school in Japan.

A school based solely on teaching slang to the youth of Japan? Been tried before for 30 yrs and all have basically failed. It will not work in the long run.

I have worked for these types of schools in Japan where the person operating it did it for profit and profit only. Often they were very inept at speaking English themselves and had no real idea how to teach or what was required. I was just given a book and was told to "teach".

I was even more amazed that they even had a school because of their own poor language ability. Needless to say, the two schools I taught at were short lived as I understood their motives and thought it very unfair to the students who were just being ripped off. Needless to say there was a high turnover of teachers and students. I would be very wary of this proposition.

Also, about the looks thing, that is just a common stereotype where the operator of the school thinks that if they have a good looking teacher the students will flock to the school in droves. I am surprised, not really though, that the same tired concept it still being used 30 years after I first started teaching in Japan. Some things never change and this is one of them.

As far as working there? Sure, why not? It's income and will give you some experience. In the long run though I think it will fail as countless others before hers have. Good luck anyway.

[Masamune_74]

I would have to chime in and agree with most of the others on this one. I might suggest that you attempt getting a cultural activities visa and finish your degree up in Japan while aiding you friend at the school. Note I did not say working; as I am unsure whether or not you can actually work on a CA visa. Something you may look into though if you are set on going. What could it hurt?

[Glenski]

Cultural activities visa (what I have referred to as cultural visa) has the following description on the MOFA homepage:
Academic or artistic activities that provide no income, activities for the purpose of pursuing specific studies on Japanese culture or arts, or activities for the purpose of learning and acquiring skills in Japanese culture or arts under the guidance of experts (for example, ikebana, tea ceremony, judo, etc.).
Essentially, you need a craftsman to sponsor you to study one of those activities. By itself, the visa does not permit work, but with special permission, you can (only PT).
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/index.html
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/index.html