Bachigai?

[timetopartyhard]

I know it means 'out of place.' What I wanted to know is it's context.

I know in Japanese (when compared to English) contexts do not match up a lot of the time. For example, saying you're out of place in English could mean you don't belong in a certain location, with a certain group, living a certain lifestyle, that you're awkward, etc.

What is bachigai's proper context?

[Uncle Frank]

My dictionary mentions:

not from the regular production center, not the best

improper - inappropriate - unseasonable

remarks or behavior improper for the occasion


Uncle Frank

[FrustratedDave]

I would best sum it up as being inappropriate, obviously this also has another meaning or context in Japanese, but "bachigai" would be used in a similar fashion.

Something like ”そんなことを言うのは場違いだ。”,　"this is not the place to say those things". I suppose you could add "this is not the time nor the place to say those things" to get a better feel for the situation, but the first translation is closest IMO.
I can think of a few ways of saying what you said in your last parragraph, but IMO "bachigai" would not be the best chioce of words to describe them. (I can think of better ways to explain a situation like that)

[Elizabeth]

I know it means 'out of place.' What I wanted to know is it's context.
I know in Japanese (when compared to English) contexts do not match up a lot of the time. For example, saying you're out of place in English could mean you don't belong in a certain location, with a certain group, living a certain lifestyle, that you're awkward, etc.
What is bachigai's proper context?
If you are interested in particular usages, the first that comes to mind is anyone who has ever unavoidably "stuck out" in a highly social environment. One example : being underdressed, looking different or strange etc in a formal restaurant/party setting. Another very common expression of the term, as Dave mentioned, comes at a critique from others for innappropriate use of language, unwarranted badmouthing etc.

HTH ! :-)

[Jaseur]

Just out of interest, Hiro from Heroes has this word on his shirt.

[timetopartyhard]

I know it's been a while since I last checked this, but if anyone can give a better word (in japanese) which describes someone who is out of place, not so much socially or location-wise, but more out of place with life, or perhaps out of place with what they should be/destiny. Something along those lines. I know it's tough, but any help you can give me is appreciated.
Thanks!

[timetopartyhard]

Or, if you can't answer my last post, if you can tell me how to say "I don't belong here." in Japanese. That might work just as well since you know the context. And if you know how it is written that would help greatly.
Thank you. : )

[timetopartyhard]

Just wanted to throw a few things out at you all.
How about these words? (I don't know what they are however)
置き違えて
不適当な
Also, I was checking around and came across this website:
blog.alc.co.jp/blog/3302143/91159
Are they using incorrect contexts?

[Toritoribe]

How about 相応しくない(fusawashikunai)? The meaning is "not appropriate" .

source of the blog
http://eow.alc.co.jp/out%20of%20place/UTF-8/?pg=1

[SushiShin]

[ばちがい ] out-of-place
I felt utterly out of place among those sophisticated people.
ああいう洗練された人々の中で、自分はまったく場違い な気がした。
Your remarks were rather out of place.
あなたが言ったことは、かなり場違いでした。
Your remarks were rather out of place.
あなたの言ったことは、どちらかといえば場違いでした 。

[Elizabeth]

I know it's been a while since I last checked this, but if anyone can give a better word (in japanese) which describes someone who is out of place, not so much socially or location-wise, but more out of place with life, or perhaps out of place with what they should be/destiny. Something along those lines. I know it's tough, but any help you can give me is appreciated.
Thanks!
The experience you are referring to, could it be described as feeling "lost in life ?" Similar to watching your life unfolding as very different than you could have imagined ? The sense that the future won't be there for you, or the road you are currently on is very "off track" what should be, where you ought to be ??


Maybe in Japanese 人生に迷う (Lost/wondering in life) or 道をはずれ ("disconnected from/off the path")...

[timetopartyhard]

Thank you for the suggestions Elizabeth! : )

They're not quite what I'm looking for though. I was suggesting 場違い as more of being out of place in the world. Maybe as if your potential was more than destiny or the world would allow. So the person feels lost and disconnected, but it's not necessarily as if they've lost their way. Would it be correct to say someone was out of place in the world, meaning it that way, and use 場違い?

[Toritoribe]

might be 疎外感(を抱く/を味わう) : (to feel) alienation

[timetopartyhard]

Thank you Toritoribe :)

If you translated the sentence "I don't belong here" or "I am out of place in the world" would it be correct to use bachigai?

[timetopartyhard]

Or for those of you who watch the show Heroes, could bachigai be used to describe Peter in the early part of volume 1?

[Toritoribe]

In a state of "alienation",
"I don't belong here" , "I am out of place in the world" (「ここは僕がいるべき場所じゃない」) ≠ 「僕はここでは場違いだ」

[timetopartyhard]

Trying to convey that general feeling, would it be possible to use bachigai?

What I'm really looking for is just 1 word that sums the things I was talking about, and being out of place (bachigai) seemed to fit. Alienation requires isolation and dissociation, so it's not really what I'm looking for exactly. But thank you anyway : )

[Toritoribe]

I can't say anything but 場違い seems not the word you are looking for...

[timetopartyhard]

How about 身分不相応. Can anyone elaborate on this and give me the romanji for it. I never learned to read kanji very well. Thank you!

[timetopartyhard]

If you're using a translator it's a combination of 身分相応 and 分不相応 in case it doesn't recognize it. I had one online that didn't. Would 身分不相応 describe someone who's potential is beyond their means, or possibly beyond any means. Almost as if destiny / fate / or the world, wouldn't allow it or is it ONLY for something beyond the person's own means?

Again, I'm looking for a single perfect word to describe the stereotypical dreamy eyed kid in the back of a classroom staring out a window, who's just out of place with the rest of the world. Almost as if he doesn't even belong here. Thanks! : )

[timetopartyhard]

Just a bump. Didn't get any new answers.

Had a new suggestion to go along with the others. 筋違い Any insight?

I'm getting it as meaning: (n,vs) (1) cramp; sprain; crick; strain (muscle); (n) (2) unreasonableness; absurdity; (adj-no,adj-na) (3) illogical; unreasonable; (4) misdirected; misplaced; wrong (of estimate, guess);

Misplaced is why I ask.

Also: 外れる or 違和感

I know it's a lot, but thank you for any help you can give!

[Goldiegirl]

Quote:Again, I'm looking for a single perfect word to describe the stereotypical dreamy eyed kid in the back of a classroom staring out a window, who's just out of place with the rest of the world. Almost as if he doesn't even belong here. Thanks!

It took you approximately 32 words to describe one feeling in English, and you only want one Japanese word to convey all of that?! :p I don't speak much Japanese, but I sure would be impressed if all of your meanings could be condensed to one perfect word. Why not just write your description the way you have it? :souka:

[timetopartyhard]

haha. There are plenty of English words and expressions that can do it though. ill-fitted, ill-matched, improper, inappropriate, incompatible, malapropos, mismatched, out of its element, out of place, unfit, unfitting, unsuitable. But not all of those are good fits for that one situation, but "out of place" would be one of the best to give the idea of "I don't belong here." Japanese and English don't match up exactly, unfortunately. I'm looking for one of the best words, in Japanese, that fits that situation.

English is kind of open ended (to me so much probably because it's my native language), but, as my relatives and former instructor often remind me, Japanese is not quite so much. I'm looking for a subtle adjective. Not a literal one, which is why I gave a very specific example so there would be no confusion.

[Goldiegirl]

I still like your English better, words tell a story, one word doesn't. That just my opinion, my husband who is Japanese said he wouldn't choose bachigai, it has a negative connotation attached to it...like showing up at a party in jeans and it's really black tie. At least that's his impression...just like the words you just chose like unfit etc, don't mean a starry eyed student...you need all of the words. Don't limit yourself in English or Japanese, words are free, use them! :)

[timetopartyhard]

Yeah, I kind of figured the negativity, that is why I offered a few other words. But, at the same time, not belonging is always somewhat of a negative thing. However, I can't use an entire sentence for what I'm doing. Also, an entire sentence removes the subtle poetic nature. And I am definitely using Japanese because that's my heritage.

I'm just confused as to why something like 僕はここでは場違いだ would have a negative connotation. And since it does, what word would one use that doesn't. What word would replace 場違い, not have a negative meaning, and still get the point across? That's what I'm really looking for.

[Goldiegirl]

:gomen:I am sorry timetopartyhard, I didn't want to dissuade you from using Japanese, I am always impressed at anyone who learns a foreign language. What I meant was why not describe your character using the same descriptions (that you wrote in English) in Japanese. It is a nice picture that you describe.

[epigene]

I know it's been a while since I last checked this, but if anyone can give a better word (in japanese) which describes someone who is out of place, not so much socially or location-wise, but more out of place with life, or perhaps out of place with what they should be/destiny. Something along those lines. I know it's tough, but any help you can give me is appreciated.
Thanks!
Thinking along this line, what I can think of is:
（僕には）違う人生があるはずだ。
There should be a different life for me.

Does it help? :relief:

[timetopartyhard]

I found a new word, but am not entirely sure how to form the negative. Any help would be apprecited! Also, if the word fits the above descriptions please let me know! : )

好適

maybe 好適ではな? I'm not sure. I've been searching and that's all I've come up with in about 2 hours sooooo, I'm gonna call it a night!

:gomen:I am sorry timetopartyhard, I didn't want to dissuade you from using Japanese, I am always impressed at anyone who learns a foreign language. What I meant was why not describe your character using the same descriptions (that you wrote in English) in Japanese. It is a nice picture that you describe.

Oh. I feel like it would be a little long winded. I'd really like to be able to keep it short and subtle, hence using 1 word, so as not to give the meaning away immediately. I think the simplicity would contrast with the complexity beautifully.

[timetopartyhard]

Thinking along this line, what I can think of is:
（僕には）違う人生があるはずだ。
There should be a different life for me.
Does it help? :relief:

Oh wow. I do like that. It's a little more than I can use though, but that is almost exactly what I'm trying to convey. Like that feeling people have when they feel like they were meant for something great, not necessarily what they do, but who they are was meant for something and that gives them the feeling of being out of place, innappropriate, or that they don't fit. : )

[timetopartyhard]

Just a bump to, hopefully, get some more answers.

[timetopartyhard]

場違いな人
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%BE%EC%B0%E3%A4%A4/EUC-JP/ (http://eow.alc.co.jp/%BE%EC%B0%E3%A4%A4/EUC-JP/)
The site describes it as a square peg in a round hole. They also use bachigai for many different sentences. Just wondering if there is any room for interpretation. Example, how a word can technically mean one thing, but used in the right context, lose it's attached connotation.