What does this mean? [Archive] - Japan Forum

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johnwolf
Apr 1, 2008, 10:47
I took this photograph at a temple on a recent trip to Kyoto. I would love to know what the inscription means. Could anyone help out with that? Thank you.

Mike Cash
Apr 1, 2008, 23:25
First kanji looks like 常 and the second one looks like 松. Third one is a mystery to me, but could be 性. Putting the first two together in IME yields a result, so I'm guessing it could be a family name "Tsunematsu". If that is the case, the last one (whether I got it right or not) is likely a first name. That could be someone who was important in the history of the temple and/or someone who donated money to the construction of the temple. It is common practice to put the names of such people up around the temple.

NANGI
Apr 2, 2008, 08:23
Konnichiwa johnwolf-san! Mike Cash-san!

I think the second one looks like "和:wa".

"常:jou" always
"和:wa" peacefully
"性:sei" heart

But I have not positive proof, sorry.

NANGI

undrentide
Apr 2, 2008, 09:47
To me the first one seems to be 常 and the last one 性, as Mike and NANGI already mentioned, but the second I'm not sure...
Looking for some help online, I found interesting sites, which might help recognize them.

http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/santai.htm
書道三体辞典
http://www.nisk.jp/shodokisochishiki/soushonohayaoboeho.html
草書の早覚え法

Glenski
Apr 2, 2008, 21:16
My Japanese wife confirms the first (top) character is jou.
She is not able to read the rest of it.

Moreover, she was very disturbed by the fact that you took the picture. (Would you like it if people took pictures of your graveyards or inside your church?) It is very bad manners here, and she said it gives a very bad feeling to any Japanese who view it, plus it lends bad luck to anyone who looks at it or keeps it. She STRONGLY urged me to delete this image from the screen.

undrentide
Apr 2, 2008, 21:24
But is it really a tomb stone? The OP says he took it at a temple but I don't think it necessarily means in a graveyard...
Temples (especially in Kyoto) often have a garden with stone ornaments showing writings by someone famous.
I'm not 100% sure but to me it does not look like someone's gravestone.
(I can see 落款 besides the three kanji, that's another reason I don't think it is something from a graveyard.)

undrentide
Apr 2, 2008, 21:38
I showed this photo to my father, he said it looks like
常夜灯.
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0505.jpg
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0928.jpg
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0736.jpg

I still have doubt about the 3rd one as 灯 (maybe 灯 is written as 燈?), but the 2nd one does look like the sousho (cursive writing style) of 夜...

http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0724.jpg

If it is 常夜灯 (night light), it makes sense to me, on the right of the photo there're stacked stones which might be a base of stone lantern... just my guess.

johnwolf
Apr 3, 2008, 01:57
Thank you everyone for your generous responses. It's amazing how ambiguous this script can be.

Nangi, I like your interpretation very much.

Glenski, sorry to offend your wife. But, as others have said, we don't even know it's a tombstone. Most likely it's not. It's by itself on a very public walkway next to a major tourist attraction, at the base of stairs directly in front of a very high wall. It appears to be a greeting or parting message.

And no, I don't mind if someone photographs my gravestone, especially if they are enamoured with its beauty.

Undrentide, so what does your father say it means?

Thanks again everyone.

undrentide
Apr 3, 2008, 07:40
As explained in my previous post (the last 2 lines),
常夜灯 = night light, which usually means it is lit through night.

You say "It's by itself on a very public walkway next to a major tourist attraction", perhaps there was a stone lantern or something next to this stone (or on top of it)?

johnwolf
Apr 3, 2008, 09:16
You say "It's by itself on a very public walkway next to a major tourist attraction", perhaps there was a stone lantern or something next to this stone (or on top of it)?
OK, here's another picture -- this time in the setting at Kiyomizu-dera temple. It's the object on the far right behind the seated man. Just to the right, outside the photo, is Otowa-no-taki, with it's three water channels.
Thank you again for your help.

undrentide
Apr 3, 2008, 09:20
OK, here's another picture -- this time in the setting at Kiyomizu-dera temple. It's the object on the far right behind the seated man. Just to the right, outside the photo, is Otowa-no-taki, with it's three water channels.
Thank you again for your help.

I see, it does look like a kind of stone lantern - you see a small hollow just above the "writings" (three kanji) where I guess they used to put a candle.

Mike Cash
Apr 3, 2008, 16:59
I do photography at temples and in the graveyards. No one has ever said a word about it, including the resident priest. There are some interesting tombs which reflect something about the people who put them there. If one takes the time to read them one can feel a certain connection with the lives of the people and learn a bit about the culture and reflect upon bygone days. Some of them have very moving stories to tell, and there is nothing wrong with total strangers being moved by "meeting" the people in this way.

I was recently struck by a rather large marker erected for a soldier in the Imperial Japanese Army. Whether his remains were actually returned for interring in Japan or whether there was just a marker erected in his memory I can't tell. But as a veteran myself I was struck by how his grave alone had gone unattended over the New Year holidays, when all the other graves had been washed, fixed up, and had offerings of flowers, fruit, and sake (or other things) left for them. The flower receptacles held long-withered brown stems of the last flowers that had been left for him. They could have been there a few months or a few years; it was impossible to tell. Yeah, I took a picture of it. I set up a tripod and did it with a twin-lens reflex.

Another very recently erected tomb at a different cemetery brought a tear to my eye. There is a recent trend to flat slabs instead of the traditional tall rectangular markers and also a trend toward including some single word on them, often a single kanji. I'll include it here, with no apologies, because I get the impression this was a fellow who loved life, was outgoing, and would no more mind meeting us after his departure than he would have while he was still hale and hearty. Next time I go up that way I'm going to take him some flowers and burn some incense for him. Even as a stranger, look upon his message to us, the living, and tell me you feel he would mind:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/2287427384_0f5dcab068.jpg

And for what it is worth, I am almost 100% sure the image in the original post was NOT of a tomb anyway.

epigene
Apr 3, 2008, 18:53
I see, it does look like a kind of stone lantern - you see a small hollow just above the "writings" (three kanji) where I guess they used to put a candle.
A bit too late to respond, but my husband also says it's 常夜燈 (lantern to be lit all night).

(Posting just to confirm undrentide's response.... :relief: )