Numbers?

[ghost1374]

Is there anyone who can post a site on numbers in Japanese and how to use them in simple math like addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division?

[Kafka]

I don't think anyone really knows what you mean. Myself included. Math in the Japanese school system is done the same way it is in the rest of the world. By using the numbers:
1234567890

In the same way we don't do math by fully writing out "one hundred fifty divided by three," the Japanese don't use kanji unless it's a situation that calls for it. Which is pretty much the same as any situation where we would write out the whole words, except for dates. And sometimes restaurants will put all the prices in kanji to keep away tourists.

[Kirakira1232]

Do want to know how to pronounce the numbers? What kafka says is correct though, in terms of mathematical problems they use the roman numerals instead of the kanji. Its just much faster to work with that way. Even when writing years they dont write "ni sen hachi nen" they just write "2008 nen" (but they pronounce it ni sen hachi nen).

However even though they use roman numerals, the way the Japanese pronounce the numbers is different though and is worth learning, is that what you wanted?

[Glenn]

And sometimes restaurants will put all the prices in kanji to keep away tourists.

You got some sort of source for that claim? This is the first I've heard of it.

[Kafka]

Source? That's just personal experience from living there for a year. Especially in Kyoto, there were some more traditional eateries that were not foreigner friendly like that. I really don't think it's a bad thing, though.

And of course, I'm just assuming they did it like that for that purpose. But considering the locations of the few that do use kanji for prices, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

[Goldiegirl]

If a person can't read the kanji to order the food, then the price being written isn't trying to keep tourists away. When I go to the in-laws the restaurants don't have the plastic food to point to and all the food names is on these banners that hang; either the food is in the black writing and the price in red or vice versa. I don't think writing in Japanese is going to keep a hungry tourist from eating anwhere....well at least not me! :)

[Kafka]

heh Maybe so. I do agree that if it is written in kanji, that isn't the menu makers usual intent.

My experiences that led me to that off-hand comment are simply this- When in Kyoto or other areas heavy with tourism, there are sections of towns that are extremely tourist-y. Menus are written in normal 1,2,3 type numbers. However, just a street away, or the back-roads of those areas, I often found menus to be written entirely in kanji. In this same type of restaurant anywhere else, the menus would usually be 1,2,3.

My assumption was that it was just the locals' restaurant where they wanted to interact with only other living and working there locals. The reaction I got from eating at one of these types of places seemed to fit with that.

I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm not yelling 'racism!' or anything of the sort. I'm sure that the same mentality is in London or anywhere else that there's a lot of tourism.

I'll never mention tourism in Japan ever again. :relief:

[becki_kanou]

I don't think they have anything to do with whether an area is touristy or non-touristy or whatever. My local okonomiyaki shop has their prices done in kanji, and I've always regarded it as a way to convey an old-fashioned or traditional atmosphere.

[tada]

I always thought it was to keep a "traditional" atmosphere as well.

It's not hard to learn 一〜九 and a ○ though. Or find a restaurant that has the prices written in Arabic numerals or uses a vending machine for food tickets.

[Mike Cash]

And of course, I'm just assuming they did it like that for that purpose.

Try to avoid phrasing supposition and opinion as categorical statements of fact.

[ghost1374]

However even though they use roman numerals, the way the Japanese pronounce the numbers is different though and is worth learning, is that what you wanted?

Yup, that's what I meant. When I was asking how to use them it was because3 someone told me that the Japanese math system was different for some reason. Sorry for the confusion! But yes, if there's anyone who can provide the Japanese pronunciation, I'd love that! Thanks in advance!:thankyou:

[Glenn]

It's different for larger numbers, because they group them in four digits when counting instead of three. So we have one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand, one million; and they have one thousand, one ten-thousand, ten ten-thousands, one hundred ten-thousands. They're written the same way with Arabic/Indo numberals though.

For example: 1,000 -- sen, 10,000 -- ichi man, 100,000 -- jû man, 1,000,000 -- hyaku man.

That may be a little ahead of where you are at present, though, if you need 1-10 still. In that case, here you go:
1 -- ichi
2 -- ni
3 -- san
4 -- yon
5 -- go
6 -- roku
7 -- nana
8 -- hachi
9 -- kyû
10 -- jû
100 -- hyaku

That's a general overlook.

[tada]

億 oku - 100,000,000
兆 chou- 1,000,000,000,000
京 kei - 10,000,000,000,000,000

[AJBryant]

I don't think they have anything to do with whether an area is touristy or non-touristy or whatever. My local okonomiyaki shop has their prices done in kanji, and I've always regarded it as a way to convey an old-fashioned or traditional atmosphere.

That would be my expectation. Especially in Kyoto.

Tony

[tada]

If they really wanted to bar tourists, they'd just put a "No gaijin allowed" sign up.

Even if you had no idea, you could tell what order of magnitude the price was in by the number of kanji (i.e. if there were three, you'd know it's 100-999 yen, and you know 1000 would cover it). Of course, you wouldn't know if you were getting proper change, but that's your fault for being too lazy to learn nine of the simplest kanji.

[Kirakira1232]

It's different for larger numbers, because they group them in four digits when counting instead of three. So we have one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand, one million; and they have one thousand, one ten-thousand, ten ten-thousands, one hundred ten-thousands. They're written the same way with Arabic/Indo numberals though.

For example: 1,000 -- sen, 10,000 -- ichi man, 100,000 -- jû man, 1,000,000 -- hyaku man.

That may be a little ahead of where you are at present, though, if you need 1-10 still. In that case, here you go:
1 -- ichi
2 -- ni
3 -- san
4 -- yon
5 -- go
6 -- roku
7 -- nana
8 -- hachi
9 -- kyû
10 -- jû
100 -- hyaku

That's a general overlook.

Hai~! thats the general outlook

To say 11 you pair juu + ichi = juuichi (十一） and its the same for the rest of the numbers in the 'teens.

ie. juuichi, juuni, juusan, juuyon, juugo etc.

When you get to 20 however...you say "nijuu"　（二十）。

sanjuu (30), yonjuu (40), gojuu (50) rokujuu (60), nanajuu (70), hachijuu (80), kyuujuu (90).

Tack on "ichi, ni, san, yon, go, roku, nana, hachi, kyuu" at the end of these to express the numbers in between.

eg. sanjuusan is 33, nanajuuichi is 71, nijuuichi is 21.

Can you see a pattern?

[ghost1374]

Seems pretty straight forward. Do I say the numbers any differently if I'm referring to the year or do I say nisenhachi for 2008?

[becki_kanou]

Seems pretty straight forward. Do I say the numbers any differently if I'm referring to the year or do I say nisenhachi for 2008?

You just need to add the word for year: nen (年) on to the end.
So 2008 is ni sen hachi nen.

[ghost1374]

Thanks a million! :happy:

[AJBryant]

Thanks a million! :happy:

That's "thanks a hyaku-man." ;)


Tony

[緑さん]

I've always been in a tizzy trying to actually count... I hear つ is accepted for almost everything, but not everything. As often as i've ever read anyone count anything, i find it rather interesting that japanese has such a complex system for actually accomplishing this.

[AJBryant]

Japan isn't the only one.

We have "bunches" of grapes and bananas, "sheets" of paper, "pieces" of pie and cake, "head" of cattle, "head*s*" of lettuce, "slice" of pizza, etc.

Tony

[tada]

That's true, but you only need cardinal numbers in front of those units. Japanese has all sorts of sound changes and nuances to it.

[緑さん]

Fortunately, english is rather easy in you have 2 cats, 4 hotdogs, 6 bananas. Though it's true, some things are 4 sheets of paper, 2 heads of lettus. Though, you could always say "4 peices of paper" and "2 things of lettuce" when you forget.

[ghost1374]

It's things like this that make me wonder how on earth a language is created. :clueless:

[tada]

I'm more curious how language, period was created. Like how did they ever create the first language, or how humans even came up with the idea of using speech to communicate things.

That's probably for another thread, though.

[緑さん]

Some religions say that they weren't created on earth. For example, Judaism (and spawning religions), as far as i know, believes that at one point, all the languages were 1 language. Then God, to prevent people from getting to powerful, at the tower of babel (take note of the name) jarbled the one language into different languages.

From there, people would take these isolated languages and it would divide into more diverse dialects to the point that we would consider them separate languages. Though, Marc Okrand developed Klingon for the purpose of entertainment, and it differs from codes of english in that it has it's own grammar rules as a platform. Take what you will from whatever religion (if any) that you follow.