Learning Japanese and a second degree?

[Aoime]

Konnichiwa! :wave:

This is my first post on the JREF forums, so I hope I haven't asked the same question that's been asked a million times before.

Currently, I am going into my senior year of my BFA in Graphic Design. After I graduate, I'm seriously considering living in Japan, even if for only a year. I plan on applying to Eikaiwas and JET and if I am accepted, I will make the move and try to learn what living in Japan is really like before making the decision to move over there semi-permanently.

I visited Japan about a month ago for a week and I absolutely loved it. I am aware of most of the mannerisms and customs of Japan, so I tried to be as courteous and conscientious as possible when I was there.

I have very little knowledge of the Japanese language outside of simple phrases. However, I have begun taking private Japanese lessons for six hours a week and I plan on taking more instruction outside of my BFA when college resumes in the fall.

My question is, what do you think I should do to make the most out of my life? I enjoy graphic design to an extent, but I don't see myself doing it my entire life. And if so, I would prefer to practice it in Japan. I don't necessarily want to learn Japanese to teach it to English students, but to better myself and gain a greater understanding of Japan. Should I look into a two-year associates degree in Japanese after I get my BFA in Graphic Design? Should I go the distance and get a four-year BA in Japanese? To those who have a BA in Japanese, do you think it would be worth it for me to get one? Or should I nix the entire second degree idea and just attempt to learn the most from independent or private study?

Domo arigatou gozaimasu!
I look forward to your responses!
:bow:

[nice gaijin]

Frankly, a (second) degree in Japanese is meaningless aside from providing you the opportunity to take classes; what is important is how well you retain the information. Depending on the person, language classes may not be the best way to do it. Find your optimum study methods and stick to that.

I graduated with a BS in Graphic Design and a BA in Japanese. The second degree gave me grounds to study abroad for a year, which was probably the best benefit I got out of it. If you are already about to graduate from your first degree, and really want the experience of 'testing the waters' for a short stay (yes, a year is a short stay), coming to teach English through JET or some other program is probably the easiest way to do so. However (and I don't mean to belittle those that take this profession seriously), for many people it's just a means to an end. If this is your motivation as well, recognize it for what it is.

Whatever career path you choose, you need to have a passion for it or you will find yourself disappointed, stressed and miserable. At an early point in my education I had the same unenthusiastic attitude towards graphic design, but when I discovered my passion for the field, the world opened up to me and I realized just how important it is to find your niche. Just know that practicing it in Japan is difficult enough when you are passionate about it, I imagine it would be near-impossible if you lack that motivation, if only because there isn't the same kind of system set up to accommodate foreign workers (as there is for teaching English).

I could go on but I'm done for the day and leaving the office. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[Charles Barkley]

Why would you get a 4 year BA in japanese? Do you want to teach Japanese in the future? All that is going to do (and I speak from a position of no experience here) is give you a qualification if you want to do something academic with Japanese. Or waste your time...

Go live in Japan. If you can find a graphic design Job in Japan, do that (actually using the language at work is one of the best ways to improve). At the same time, make an effort to use the language as much as possible, study on your own, and take private lessons. Within 2-3 years your Japanese will be great.

If you come and work at an Eikaiwa or JET, you are likely to find yourself often in a position of being 'the English speaker.' It is hard to explain in few words, but you may not be exposed to as much Japanese as if you had another non-english teaching Job or came as a student. I am just finishing my second year on JET, and it was a great experience, and my Japanese has improved a lot, but there have been a lot of frustrations language-learning wise, and a lot of friction between what I want my role to be and what it actually is. I would still recommend JET, but if you can do something with graphic design, all the better.

Unless you are interested in the literature or teaching the language, don't study Japanese at a university. Study something else in Japanese--or get a job. If you really want hardcore language study, one year at a Japanese language school in Japan would probably do the trick.

[tada]

I'd only study Japanese at university if it won't impede you getting your main degree, or make you stay longer. If you're staying there only to study Japanese, I wouldn't. Personally, I found myself only interested in courses from CS, math, or Japanese, so I took three years. Everyone at UW needs at least one year of foreign language, so that was a no-brainer, and the other two helped me secure some requirements that would have otherwise been hard for me to find classes for.

However, it all comes down to how much motivation you have to self-study. I found it near-impossible with 0 years of formal Japanese education, a little easier with one year, a lot easier with two years, and after three years I'm going to self-study from here on out. In retrospect though, I found the third year to be superficial. It is a lot easier when you have the framework built. If you can construct it through self-study though, go for it.

Sort of unrelated, but study something you truly love. Don't study something you know you'll get burnt out on later.

[Aoime]

Frankly, a (second) degree in Japanese is
I graduated with a BS in Graphic Design and a BA in Japanese. The second degree gave me grounds to study abroad for a year, which was probably the best benefit I got out of it. If you are already about to graduate from your first degree, and really want the experience of 'testing the waters' for a short stay (yes, a year is a short stay), coming to teach English through JET or some other program is probably the easiest way to do so. However (and I don't mean to belittle those that take this profession seriously), for many people it's just a means to an end. If this is your motivation as well, recognize it for what it is.
Ah, what similar situations we are in (somewhat). I'm happy to hear your experience, as you have basically achieved what I was considering. I couldn't be talking to a more qualified responder! I agree, a year is a short stay and JET seems like a good way to break into Japan. I'm not sure what you mean by "it's just a means to an end." Could you clarify please?
Whatever career path you choose, you need to have a passion for it or you will find yourself disappointed, stressed and miserable. At an early point in my education I had the same unenthusiastic attitude towards graphic design, but when I discovered my passion for the field, the world opened up to me and I realized just how important it is to find your niche. Just know that practicing it in Japan is difficult enough when you are passionate about it, I imagine it would be near-impossible if you lack that motivation, if only because there isn't the same kind of system set up to accommodate foreign workers (as there is for teaching English).
Ah, I agree entirely! That's why I'm considering doing something different with my life. I will admit, perhaps I am a bit delusional and I am having pipedreams of Japan being the perfect country. I am basing my judgment upon visiting for 7 days on vacation, which is far different from living there, even for a month. But I still would like to experience Japan and try to make a better judgment call.
Also, may I ask what you ended up doing with your degrees? Did you double major in college, or get two degrees separately? I had enthusiasm and excitement towards Graphic Design for my first two and a half years, but after that, I became rather jaded and it felt like I was about to enter the rat race, instead of doing something I enjoyed. Are you currently working in Japan or America? What are you doing? You do not have to answer these questions if you'd rather not. I'm just curious.
_______________________________________
Why would you get a 4 year BA in japanese? Do you want to teach Japanese in the future? All that is going to do (and I speak from a position of no experience here) is give you a qualification if you want to do something academic with Japanese. Or waste your time...
I'm not really interested in teaching Japanese in the future. I see your point, but I'm always happy to listen to other peoples' experiences with their degrees and what can come of it.
Go live in Japan. If you can find a graphic design Job in Japan, do that (actually using the language at work is one of the best ways to improve). At the same time, make an effort to use the language as much as possible, study on your own, and take private lessons. Within 2-3 years your Japanese will be great.
I have considered seeking a Graphic Design position in Japan, but one of the biggest concerns and hurdles is learning Japanese typography and which typefaces match certain aesthetics. Perhaps I should put Graphic Design on hold for a while and focus on perhaps teaching English in Japan.
If you come and work at an Eikaiwa or JET, you are likely to find yourself often in a position of being 'the English speaker.' It is hard to explain in few words, but you may not be exposed to as much Japanese as if you had another non-english teaching Job or came as a student. I am just finishing my second year on JET, and it was a great experience, and my Japanese has improved a lot, but there have been a lot of frustrations language-learning wise, and a lot of friction between what I want my role to be and what it actually is. I would still recommend JET, but if you can do something with graphic design, all the better.
Ah, I can see how the position as "the English speaker" can become frustrating. I have a few friends who are trying to learn Japanese, however they get somewhat frustrated when their Japanese friends try to practice their English with them, as it makes it harder to practice Japanese. However, a compromise has to be made somewhere, if both parties are trying to learn each other's language, ne?
Also, where did JET place you? I've heard that they can place you from a medium-sized city to a small countryside. I'm curious what your experience is. Did you take a lot of Japanese prior to JET, or did you pick it up over there? Any and all details you can provide me with about JET would be greatly appreciated!
:-)
Unless you are interested in the literature or teaching the language, don't study Japanese at a university. Study something else in Japanese--or get a job. If you really want hardcore language study, one year at a Japanese language school in Japan would probably do the trick.
Perhaps a language school in Japan would be a good idea. From your experience, do you have much downtime in Japan while participating in JET? I'm curious if one can study Japanese during the evening after working during the day. Would it be too difficult to take lessons there while working?
_______________________________________
I'd only study Japanese at university if it won't impede you getting your main degree, or make you stay longer. If you're staying there only to study Japanese, I wouldn't. Personally, I found myself only interested in courses from CS, math, or Japanese, so I took three years. Everyone at UW needs at least one year of foreign language, so that was a no-brainer, and the other two helped me secure some requirements that would have otherwise been hard for me to find classes for.
However, it all comes down to how much motivation you have to self-study. I found it near-impossible with 0 years of formal Japanese education, a little easier with one year, a lot easier with two years, and after three years I'm going to self-study from here on out. In retrospect though, I found the third year to be superficial. It is a lot easier when you have the framework built. If you can construct it through self-study though, go for it.
Sort of unrelated, but study something you truly love. Don't study something you know you'll get burnt out on later.
Thanks for the advice and your experience. It really means a lot to me. I agree that self-study is very difficult with little-to-no experience in Japanese. Before starting my private lessons, I attempted to teach myself somehow with online resources. I found it nearly impossible and I really had no idea where to start. With my sensei's guidance, I am picking it up, but studying at home and finding the motivation to memorize stroke orders and characters is very difficult. I'm sure the learning curve is almost at its' steepest when one is beginning to learn a non-Roman language, ne?

[nice gaijin]

Ah, what similar situations we are in (somewhat). I'm happy to hear your experience, as you have basically achieved what I was considering. I couldn't be talking to a more qualified responder! I agree, a year is a short stay and JET seems like a good way to break into Japan. I'm not sure what you mean by "it's just a means to an end." Could you clarify please?What I meant is that it seems that a lot of people that go over on the JET program or go to work for an eikaiwa choose that job because it gets them to Japan, and not necessarily because they want to teach, or are even that capable of teaching English. Most will live in Japan for a few years before returning home, with little to no job experience relevant to their "real" careers. Of course, there are those that have a passion for teaching (or develop that passion), and make a career out of it in Japan. Some of our members here are in such a situation. However, it seems like you are in the former group. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't neglect your duties as a teacher. If you do choose this path, I would strongly recommend doing something while you are in Japan that can prove helpful in your future career, whatever that might be.

Ah, I agree entirely! That's why I'm considering doing something different with my life. I will admit, perhaps I am a bit delusional and I am having pipedreams of Japan being the perfect country. I am basing my judgment upon visiting for 7 days on vacation, which is far different from living there, even for a month. But I still would like to experience Japan and try to make a better judgment call.It's good that you at least know you're seeing things through rose colored glasses. I had a great time when I visited and again when I studied there, but that's no guarantee that I would be so fortunate in the future. There are definitely ups and downs, and whether the positive outweighs the negative really depends on your experience and perspective. Just know that a majority of of people that go around saying they're moving to Japan forever either never make the trip, or visit or live there for a short while before going back home.

Also, may I ask what you ended up doing with your degrees? Did you double major in college, or get two degrees separately? I had enthusiasm and excitement towards Graphic Design for my first two and a half years, but after that, I became rather jaded and it felt like I was about to enter the rat race, instead of doing something I enjoyed. Are you currently working in Japan or America? What are you doing? You do not have to answer these questions if you'd rather not. I'm just curious.I double majored, as my year abroad gave me more than enough units for a second degree in Japanese. The rat race in design is really what you make of it though. I've been doing a variety of work for several clients, but my full time job is at a printing company. Originally hired to do web design and random print jobs, I'm currently reworking the work flow for processing jobs through the sales and CSR department. Information systems and corporate identity are the two areas I find myself most interested in, and I exercise my passion for the latter during the weekend, building and maintaining a brand identity for a scientific equipment distributor. The way I see it, I'm building up valuable work experience that will aid me in the future if and when I choose to go to grad school or move. Whether that future finds me again in Japan has yet to be seen, but I wouldn't pass up the opportunity if one presented itself. I'm afraid I'm already too advanced in my career to do the English teacher gig for a year (although I do have some experience working part time for an eikaiwa). This means that if I were to go to Japan to work, it would have to be something related to my professional interests and not just, as I said, a means to an end.

Hope that helps...

[Aoime]

What I meant is that it seems that a lot of people that go over on the JET program or go to work for an eikaiwa choose that job because it gets them to Japan, and not necessarily because they want to teach, or are even that capable of teaching English. Most will live in Japan for a few years before returning home, with little to no job experience relevant to their "real" careers. Of course, there are those that have a passion for teaching (or develop that passion), and make a career out of it in Japan. Some of our members here are in such a situation. However, it seems like you are in the former group. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't neglect your duties as a teacher. If you do choose this path, I would strongly recommend doing something while you are in Japan that can prove helpful in your future career, whatever that might be.
Ah, now I see what you mean. I am fully aware of the responsibilities involved in teaching English in a foreign country. I would definitely like to strengthen foreign relations between the Japanese and any English speaking nation. While going to Japan would be very exciting and a great learning experience for myself, I also look forward to the opportunity to share or attempt to share my personal life experience with others who are curious about the English language and culture.

It's good that you at least know you're seeing things through rose colored glasses. I had a great time when I visited and again when I studied there, but that's no guarantee that I would be so fortunate in the future. There are definitely ups and downs, and whether the positive outweighs the negative really depends on your experience and perspective. Just know that a majority of of people that go around saying they're moving to Japan forever either never make the trip, or visit or live there for a short while before going back home.
I try to be as mature and unbiased as possible when making a judgment call on moving or living in another country. I've given it a lot of careful thought and consideration, and tried to look at my goals from an outsider's perspective, rather than just my own. I feel fortunate that I can identify that there is a difference between vacationing and working in a foreign country. But no matter what reason I would go for, it would be a great life experience, no doubt.

I double majored, as my year abroad gave me more than enough units for a second degree in Japanese. The rat race in design is really what you make of it though. I've been doing a variety of work for several clients, but my full time job is at a printing company. Originally hired to do web design and random print jobs, I'm currently reworking the work flow for processing jobs through the sales and CSR department. Information systems and corporate identity are the two areas I find myself most interested in, and I exercise my passion for the latter during the weekend, building and maintaining a brand identity for a scientific equipment distributor. The way I see it, I'm building up valuable work experience that will aid me in the future if and when I choose to go to grad school or move. Whether that future finds me again in Japan has yet to be seen, but I wouldn't pass up the opportunity if one presented itself. I'm afraid I'm already too advanced in my career to do the English teacher gig for a year (although I do have some experience working part time for an eikaiwa). This means that if I were to go to Japan to work, it would have to be something related to my professional interests and not just, as I said, a means to an end.
Hope that helps...
Where did you go to college? Brand identity is one of my passions, but it is so under appreciated as an art form. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I'm jaded. I sent you a PM more about this.
:-)

Thanks for your responses. I love hearing what other people have to say about the topic.

[senseiman]

My 2 cents (most of which agrees with what has been said above):

Having a second bachelor's degree is pretty useless, so you should drop that idea immediately.

Its way better to go to Japan to teach English and learn the language there while getting paid. If, after you've done that for a while and reached a certain level of proficiency, you can go and do a Masters Degree in Japanese somewhere. Or apply for a Monbusho scholarship to do an MA at a Japanese university.

I mentioned in another thread that Sheffield University offers an MA program in Japanese studies that you can do part time through distance learning while working full time in Japan. That might be an option too.

Spending massive amounts of cash and time on another bachelor's degree though doesn't make much sense!

[Damicci]

Welcome to the forums.
My opinion also would be do the Eikawa and learn as much as you can about Japanese and the language. That money used for classes in the US would better spent while living and learning in Japan. You'll gain much more knowledge and useful Japanese that way. Then you can decide if you really want to work in Japan. I would also consider why you want to work in Japan as compared to other parts of the world. Is it something about JP Graphic designs you enjoy or just the country?