Cutism in Japan(^^)

[manaka]

Hello, everyone(^^)/
my name's Manaka
japanese uni student
i was net-surfing about japanese cutism/cuteness/kawaii
and i found this site by accident
now i'm in 4th year and need to write gruduation thesis
i choose "japanese kawaii culture" for the topic
coz i love cute goods and almost everyday i say "kawaii"
it's not special, kawaii is everywhere in japan
but maybe for people in other countries,
japanese cuteness might be a little bit different from theirs or might be weird
or so much attractive
i feel Cute in japan is probably unique.
then,
i need your help for my thesis
i really want to know how foreigners(i mean not japanese) are thinking about japanese cuteness/kawaii
and also
what is considered "cute" in your country, what is the difference from japanese one
i'm so curious about your opinion
so please help me!!(><)/``
thank you(^u^)

[nice gaijin]

One observation I've made about the concept of "cute" in Japan, is that it seems married to the details. Outfits, accessories, and mannerisms are the foundations for "acting cute," from what I've seen in Japanese girls. Of course, just as beauty, cuteness is in the eye of the beholder. Some people have very different interpretations of what's cute and what isn't, so it's hard to define universal attributes of "cuteness," although a lot of what I heard in Japan was along the lines of 「守りたい」って気がする。

My perception of the American concept of cute is that it's simply an adjective used to describe someone or some thing, but there's no large movement or mainstream obsession with cuteness (granted, American culture is fragmented into many different groups and cultural influences, Japanese being one of them). In Japan, it seems that cuteness is like a goal that can be obtained through the way one dresses or acts (this is also true to some extent in America). Items are still "cute," but that quality is defined and expressed through the minutiae of details. Shape, proportion, and color are just a few things that factor into it. The "consumers" or "audience" of cuteness don't necessarily go so far as to analyze what makes something cute, but for instance, I know guys that think girls with glasses are cute, and certain gestures like adjusting their frames will make them, as you might say, キュン死する。

A big difference I've noticed (and of course this is just a generalization) is that in Japan, the obsession with cute things and being seen as cute is carried even into adulthood, whereas in the US, the pursuit of being "cute" is often abandoned for the pursuit of being "sexy." Gothic Lolita is a good example of the "cute over sexy" culture.

[epigene]

This looks like the start of a promising thread!

So, I've decided to move it to All Things Japanese.

Manaka-san, welcome to JREF!
I hope you find this place informative! :wave:

[korp]

I would love to have a copy of your thesis!! Pretty please.

I love the cuteness thingy in Japanse. Its somehow very well integrated in the whole culture, just being cute and a little, little childish. I dont think that is very common in other cultures. The negative side I would say that it seems to be a little sexualised in someways sometimes...

[bluepilot]

Your thesis seems very interesting and I think you will have a lot of fun with it.

I think that you are right when you say that Japanese cuteness is unique.

But I think that this is a very hard topic to discuss because you cannot measure cuteness and was is cute to someone is repulisive to another.

In Japan, I got the impression that just about everything is 'cute-talised' because everything seems to have a cute version, even food.

Maybe you could look into that. How in Japan, normal everyday items have a version a little cute twist to them and comare it to other countries.

Take for example hello kitty.

Sanryo have released just about everything hello kitty. If you wanted you could probably buy everything you ever needed with a hello kitty symbol.

On that note, I am looking for a hello kitty pregnancy test (just for the comedy value) if kitty turns blue....

[CrimsonMasquerade]

In Japan, I got the impression that just about everything is 'cute-talised' because everything seems to have a cute version, even food.
Maybe you could look into that. How in Japan, normal everyday items have a version a little cute twist to them and comare it to other countries.
Take for example hello kitty.
Sanryo have released just about everything hello kitty. If you wanted you could probably buy everything you ever needed with a hello kitty symbol.
On that note, I am looking for a hello kitty pregnancy test (just for the comedy value) if kitty turns blue....
i've been thinking about this -cutism- for a while.

it seems you hit the nail on the head. :cool:


and hello kitty is funny. [you should suggest sanryo the hello kitty p.t.] ^^
i saw a couple of older ladies wearing hello kitty stuff. well i myself like hello kitty.
because it's kawaiiiii

[Chirpy9]

Cuteness in Japan..hmmm
This seems to be a very catchy and interesting thread.

In Japan, everything seemed cute to me - the way they wrap a gift, the key chains, the mobile phone holders, the bags, mobile phone straps, the way they dress their pets, the packing of a bento, even the nail paints, the umbrellas. Everything and anything, the list can go on where cuteness is concerned in Japan. I guess its a way of saying that We care.
And you get this cutie-pie feeling the moment you land in Japan.

[vegitagojita]

If you wanted you could probably buy everything you ever needed with a hello kitty symbol.
On that note, I am looking for a hello kitty pregnancy test (just for the comedy value) if kitty turns blue....

I saw on TV that they even have a Hello Kitty Vibrator

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Some articles you might find interesting;

"Cute is cool in Japan";

http://www.mynippon.com/culture/pinkculture.htm

"Cute or attractive girls: what should you be?";

http://www.mynippon.com/nao/june.htm

"Kawaii or cute Japanese products";

http://www.mynippon.com/photos/photo94.htm

^_^ .

[GuitarAddict]

Here in europe everything is very sober, you don't see cute things or bright colours here unless it is for children, it is people's mind set, hello kitty is considered cute till some levels, like <16-17 after that we feel obligated to become serious adults.

"act normal and you are being crazy enough" is a much spoken phrase that says it all.

And don't people from europe, amerika see only the sexual side of some cute things like Gothic lolita, para para groups etc. because of how we look at and judge things with our serious thinking?
Cute because of just being cute does not apply for us because that only can be for children, so if that girl is in 20's but wears very short skirts with many layers bright high socks it must be sexualy dressing up, and combine that with excessive accessory, she must be mentally disturbed so cannot be considered cute as in Kawaii.

I think Japan's kawaii level really is unique and an output for creativity, which does not excist on such big scale in other countries.

Well I´m not sure if this was usefull, or adds anything to this topic
but I wish you Good luck with your thesis ^^.

[Ahega]

I'd like to bring this thread back to life since it's pretty interesting and I think of writing a thesis in that direction.

I think one of the reasons for this cutism (and also all this brand stuff) is, that Japanese value the appearance of something very much. A good example might be the way food is presented. Like they saying "the sizzle sells the steak".

Obviously I can't look at cutism from a Japanese perspective but as (and for) a westerner I think that it is over the top at times. Though I have something going for it, too, i.e. the nail stuff, mobile decoration - though I think for "Japanese standard" I keep it pretty decent. I really like to know how Japanese see those things and how they receive it.

Just a speculation, but I think of Japanese society, especially when one is older, is stern and somewhat monotone (work/school/...) and it is kind of an escape to a brighter world where you don't have to be concerned about correctness and behavior. Though it might help to keep the inner child alive.
A really extreme form are the Hime-gyaru (princess style), I think. I swear I've never seen so much pink, rhinestones and whatnot at once. I whish I had bookmarked the little documentation where a Himegyru worked part-time as a truck driver. If I find I will post it.
Also those Maid Cafés. The girls there really do act overly cute, i.e. speaking with a high voice and the gestures. (Yes, I was in one :relief: )
To understand this phenomenon it might be interesting to look at how men see the ideal woman and what they are looking for and also, what the word "cute" means for a Japanese. What reminds me... compared to a westerner Japanese men (well, I guess more boys than actually men) use the word "cute" pretty often. A western man won't use it (maybe I'm wrong here, but as my prof noted that I thought it's true, I can't recall hearing that).

That's all for now since I've to go to work now, but I'd really love to get this thread back to live
よろしくぅー☆

EDIT: found the video
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3j39p_princesses-japonaises_fun

[grapefruit]

To understand this phenomenon it might be interesting to look at how men see the ideal woman and what they are looking for and also, what the word "cute" means for a Japanese. What reminds me... compared to a westerner Japanese men (well, I guess more boys than actually men) use the word "cute" pretty often. A western man won't use it (maybe I'm wrong here, but as my prof noted that I thought it's true, I can't recall hearing that).

That's interesting. I do feel that Japanese men look for cuteness in women. I don't go too far to claim that Japanese men cannot handle matured women, but cuteness in women surely attracts men's attention in general in Japan.

[Ahega]

That's interesting. I do feel that Japanese men look for cuteness in women.

Yeah, I, too, have that feeling. But only when "observing" the younger generation. When I look at Japanese house wifes I can't imagine that "cute factor" though I don't know how they've been in their 20s.
There is a Japanese fashion magazine which I buy once in a while (with all the decora nail stuff and so on) and there once was a topic about the daily routine. A lot of the models are mothers and they seem to have this "cute" lifestyle even in their daily life. I.e. they decorate the meals like they decorate their mobile, or the interior of their flats. Unfortunately I don't know about the former generation(s).
This cutism seems to be a more recent thing (and I can't imagine it in and prior postwar times).

[cicatriz esp]

I think it's quite creepy. In my culture, the term "cute" is only applied to children, puppies, dolls, etc. It's not applied to anything adult at all.

[grapefruit]

I think it's quite creepy. In my culture, the term "cute" is only applied to children, puppies, dolls, etc. It's not applied to anything adult at all.

It's true. But, there are some exceptions here and there. Wolksvogen Beetle is "cute" despite it is used by adults. It's not an American car but people seem to like it in the US (at least among women).

[miss_maya]

...Cute because of just being cute does not apply for us because that only can be for children, so if that girl is in 20's but wears very short skirts with many layers bright high socks it must be sexualy dressing up, and combine that with excessive accessory, she must be mentally disturbed so cannot be considered cute as in Kawaii...
sadly i too see this type of attitude where i live.
I have read personal stories through a Gyaru forum, that a girl wearing cute versions of gyaru fashions will be heckled by men in countries like America, because of the mens sexual treatment of it. in Japan i've noticed it is not noticed in this way, and she is considered just gyaru "Girly".
Most Gyaru host clubs in Japan will not allow western men in fear of the above reason.

Currently in Australia and France however, there is a boom of Anime and Cosplay. Gyaru Circles "Gyaru-cir" are appearing in America and Hawaii. So many kids are doing it, that it is becoming recognised by the population.
At the moment all of it is still viewed as cosplay, and being cute still considered "immature", but these japan fans (young and old) are trying very hard to break the attitudes of people.
It's true. But, there are some exceptions here and there. Wolksvogen Beetle is "cute" despite it is used by adults. It's not an American car but people seem to like it in the US (at least among women).
I often feel that products for women such as cars are ridiculed/ignored by men, and that there may be a lack of female product designers. i personally feel that womens wish for visually appealing surroundings and car is sometimes seen as a joke. There are actual jokes about girls not caring about what is in the car, but only wanting the nice color.
Thank god for some Product designers thinking of us women, we now have a stylish iPod, with variety of colours, White or pink mobile phones, and some newer cars allow the owner to choose a custom colour.

But to take things one step further into the world of cute, would be to take things too far in our current society, there are no rhinestone iPods on the market, these have to be custom made. There is currently only one (nicely designed) white mobile phone available in my city. To make it cute, you have to go to chinese shops for your accessories.
About cute car parts, well, they can be imported from japan if you like.

[ShadowSpirit]

compared to a westerner Japanese men (well, I guess more boys than actually men) use the word "cute" pretty often. A western man won't use it (maybe I'm wrong here, but as my prof noted that I thought it's true, I can't recall hearing that).


Speaking as an American man (but not necessarily representing all western men.) I'd say that even as boys, we associate the word "cute" with that of being effeminate. Out of practice, we usually don't call something cute unless to describe small and young living things. e.g., babies, puppies, kittens. As adults, we use cute as part of our physical perception of a female's appearance. "Sexy" describing women that seem to have a lustful allure (if she has an aggressive demeanor or wears clothing that is either revealing or hugs curves,) "beautiful" if the woman has a casual demeanor or dress appearance, and "cute" if the woman has a shy or timid demeanor or dresses very modestly.

As for casual use of cute to describe things outside of what I listed. It is seldom, if ever uttered by American men.

[Derfel]

I don't think I ever used the word for anything.

[Remixer]

I use it to describe baby kittens.

There is no other word to describe them, I am telling you!


Remixer

[Aurura]

Outward cuteness in America seems to have become attached with "attitude" as well, whether the attitude is a good or bad one; A lot of both are seen in entertainment and toys for youth (i.e. Hanna Montana, Brats Dolls, High School Musical and others)... They all have their own form of 'cuteness' but not without the "We are the BEST" sort of message. Cuteness in the form of innocence and the like seem to only be used for advertisement of products for babies and toddlers. Or Sesame Street. :blush:

Cuteness in Japan, as far as I've seen, puts a lot of importance in keeping cuteness with innocence or acceptance of personal lifestyle preferences, with males as well as females.

As far as observation of adults in America, I second that cuteness is noticed most in personal behavior ("It's cute how she looks when she's in deep thought" or "The way he looks down when he smiles is so cute!"). There are many, many ways a person can be seen as "cute" in this light.

[ShadowSpirit]

Outward cuteness in America seems to have become attached with "attitude" as well, whether the attitude is a good or bad one; A lot of both are seen in entertainment and toys for youth (i.e. Hanna Montana, Brats Dolls, High School Musical and others)...

Interesting. I've always thought of those venues as more about being "glamorous" instead of cute.

[maushan3]

Kind of off topic but... I didin't think there were a lot of Japanese-anime obsessed people in Mexico until I headed down to Mexico City to take my JLPT test and saw probably like 5-10% of the attendees cosplaying and wearing lolita dresses thinking they are so cute, oh, and they were shouting phrases in Japanese like sugoi while speking Spanish. They can do whatever they want but it just pisses me off that there are still a lot of people that think that Japan is some sort cartoon-based country or something.

I'm sorry about the rant, this thread just reminded me about that and how shocked I am by things like that.

Mauricio

[ShadowSpirit]

Kind of off topic but... I didin't think there were a lot of Japanese-anime obsessed people in Mexico until I headed down to Mexico City to take my JLPT test and saw probably like 5-10% of the attendees cosplaying and wearing lolita dresses thinking they are so cute, oh, and they were shouting phrases in Japanese like sugoi while speking Spanish. They can do whatever they want but it just pisses me off that there are still a lot of people that think that Japan is some sort cartoon-based country or something.
I'm sorry about the rant, this thread just reminded me about that and how shocked I am by things like that.
Mauricio


I'm not sure why you're so bothered by it. Think of it more as cultural immersion. Granted, there is much more to Japan than anime and kawaii. Though at least people embrace and show appreciation for the things they do know about it, even if they don't take the time out to learn more on the topic. It's better than scorning a place for its entertainment. This reminds me of the Bleach anime series, how it implements a land of the dead and borrows it from Mexican traditions. Should this cause an uproar to say that there is more to Mexico than Los Muertos?

People watch what they like, and emulate that which entertains them. This sort of fad helps to promote Japanese culture. Makes it seem hip. Which is good for Japan in some instance, as it helps spread the interest in its people. Takes away from the whole outdated "kamikaze" and "seppuku" negative stereotypes. Besides, it isn't like Japanese people don't lavish fads from other countries or share misconceptions about outside groups of people.

On another note... By a strange coincidence. When I was at the gym today, these two guys were doing the same shoulder weight exercise. A friend of theirs walks up and comments. "You two look cute doing that together." Albeit, he was saying it to be mocking (that American effeminate thing I was mentioning earlier is being implied here.) Though I found it interesting that it was said not long after I noticed this thread.

[ASHIKAGA]

"Cute is for children and puppies."

I hear that all the time. Why, I wonder. Is there a point in our lives where we somehow stop finding certain things desirable for their cuteness? What is it that attracts young children in cute things that is not attractive to adults?

I believe it all comes down to the society one lives in and its attitude toward cute.

Wouldn't you pick up that cuddly Hello Kitty plush in the store window of a toy shop if an adult finding comfort and joy in such things were considered normal? I would.

Unlike some other societies, Japanese society says, "It's OK to embrace cute. Cute is for everyone. Young and old, women and men. ".

Japanese people grow up in a place where there is no hang-ups about loving cute, where you don't have to out-grow cute.
I know I say that in a VERY broad stroke here, but I really think that's what it is.

You might say that some people simply do not like cute. They'd much prefer cool or sexy or whatever. I feel that there is a big difference between cute and cool/sexy. Cute touches something that's primal in a human being. What I mean is that what is considered sexy or cool is quite different in each society because they are learned. Like it or not, we are unknowingly influenced by the society in which we live and what it considers sexy/cool.

In a place where it is encouraged to leave behind the cute once you become aware of the wonderful and scary world of sex, it is hard for those two things to coexist albeit in some kinky fetishes. However, in Japan, where people don't have to abandon cute when they reach a certain age group, those two things can happily coexist, even merge as one with very little stigma imposed by the society at large.

Japanese society is often characterized as conservative, but in this regard, in a way, it could provide a very liberal environment for you to be who you are.

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Here is the scientific explanation to the kawaii factor : pedomorphosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedomorphosis); in other words the obsession about juvenile traits in adults.

Neoteny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny) is the most common expression of it in Japan, as seen in dogs (chihuahuas, Yorkshire Terriers, miniature Dachshunds, and other toy dogs), but also in other unusual pets like the Axolotl salamander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl). I feel that the Axolotl reflects perfectly the ideal image of eternal youth, innocence and cuteness sought out by so many Japanese.

Even people are becoming more child-like by natural selection, Japanese men preferring cuter women to mature-looking ones.

Any theories of why this phenomenon is more common in Japan than elsewhere ?

[ShadowSpirit]

I've encountered a few shared explanations on this phenomenon. Though both of a fetish nature, it ties in closely to the overall psychology of most people that exhibit this behavior.

Paraphilic infantilism : a fetish involving the desire to regress into the mindset of a baby. Wearing diapers, being treated as a baby, reacting accordingly as a baby would to the surroundings. I saw an investigative program (source not remembered, sorry) that claims people who practice this fetish were lacking in affection at an early age. This is a shared analysis of the fetish itself and not necessarily any culture of people who engage in it.

I did see a BBC documentary (this time I remembered the source) that was discussing Japan's adult districts. One of the subjects that was mentioned is the popularity of the school girl image. The reasoning given was that many men feel awkward talking with an adult woman. Such a woman will likely be experienced, have developed strong opinions, harbor goals in life, expectations. Whereas a young girl likely is still innocent, uncertain of the world, eager to learn. For an insecure person, such a young girl is more approachable. The image that ties in with a young girl is that of the school uniform and the comforts of thought come with it. At least in the context of this topic, this is what it is symbolic of. If we were to assume that this documentary is accurate in its ascertation, then I don't see why it wouldn't apply to all things of a cute nature. Just the very ideology behind it and the encouragement to act as such.

[gaijinalways]

Cute is king in Japan, and like the words 'sugoi' and 'oishi' overused. Some of the things my university students find cute are actually ugly, IMO.

In some ways it is refreshing that people can relate to things as cute regardless of their ages, but in Japan there is a bit of a retrogressive tendancy to not want to grow up. This can be a good and a bad thing. Having a youthful outlook can be good and uplifting, remaining and behaving immature not. But how to define the difference?

As to wearing or using things because you think they are cute, to each his own. There are other ways to add color without resorting to looking 'cute'.

And, what happened to the OP:okashii:? She got 'cuted' out!?

[maushan3]

I'm not sure why you're so bothered by it. Think of it more as cultural immersion. Granted, there is much more to Japan than anime and kawaii. Though at least people embrace and show appreciation for the things they do know about it, even if they don't take the time out to learn more on the topic. It's better than scorning a place for its entertainment. This reminds me of the Bleach anime series, how it implements a land of the dead and borrows it from Mexican traditions. Should this cause an uproar to say that there is more to Mexico than Los Muertos?

People watch what they like, and emulate that which entertains them. This sort of fad helps to promote Japanese culture. Makes it seem hip. Which is good for Japan in some instance, as it helps spread the interest in its people. Takes away from the whole outdated "kamikaze" and "seppuku" negative stereotypes. Besides, it isn't like Japanese people don't lavish fads from other countries or share misconceptions about outside groups of people.

It doesn't bother me in the way that I feel discomforted byt these and makes me angry. I think I expressed it wrongly, my mistake. What I meant is that they are in for a big surprise once they find out that Japan isn't that. And, I dunno, I find it annoying when people start asking me things like Anime when they hear I went to Japan.

Mauricio

[ShadowSpirit]

It doesn't bother me in the way that I feel discomforted byt these and makes me angry. I think I expressed it wrongly, my mistake. What I meant is that they are in for a big surprise once they find out that Japan isn't that. And, I dunno, I find it annoying when people start asking me things like Anime when they hear I went to Japan.
Mauricio

Fair enough. I applaud you for your sensitivity on the subject. I would much rather meet gentlemen like you whom serve to defend the diversity of another culture instead of people whom try to attack or distort it. For that, you have a great outlook on life that I wish all people could benefit from.

[MadamePapillon]

"Cute is for children and puppies."
I hear that all the time. Why, I wonder. Is there a point in our lives where we somehow stop finding certain things desirable for their cuteness? What is it that attracts young children in cute things that is not attractive to adults?
I believe it all comes down to the society one lives in and its attitude toward cute.
Wouldn't you pick up that cuddly Hello Kitty plush in the store window of a toy shop if an adult finding comfort and joy in such things were considered normal? I would.
Unlike some other societies, Japanese society says, "It's OK to embrace cute. Cute is for everyone. Young and old, women and men. ".
Japanese people grow up in a place where there is no hang-ups about loving cute, where you don't have to out-grow cute.
I know I say that in a VERY broad stroke here, but I really think that's what it is.
You might say that some people simply do not like cute. They'd much prefer cool or sexy or whatever. I feel that there is a big difference between cute and cool/sexy. Cute touches something that's primal in a human being. What I mean is that what is considered sexy or cool is quite different in each society because they are learned. Like it or not, we are unknowingly influenced by the society in which we live and what it considers sexy/cool.
In a place where it is encouraged to leave behind the cute once you become aware of the wonderful and scary world of sex, it is hard for those two things to coexist albeit in some kinky fetishes. However, in Japan, where people don't have to abandon cute when they reach a certain age group, those two things can happily coexist, even merge as one with very little stigma imposed by the society at large.
Japanese society is often characterized as conservative, but in this regard, in a way, it could provide a very liberal environment for you to be who you are.

Ok, I have a theory on this. I could be completely wrong but hear me out.

Now it's not that the rest of the world does like cute but it's a generally accepted thing that in the western world, when you reach a certain age it's time to put away the dolls, stop wearing your hair in pigtails, dress/talk/act more mature. Why is this accepted in the western world where in Japan it's ok to be child-like into adulthood and cute reigns supreme?

Maybe it's because in the west children are allowed to be children for a longer time. In Japan at a fairly young age they are bogged down with stresses and responsibilities so in a way they don't really get to be carefree children.

When it's time to 'grow up' over here there's this feeling of finally having transitioned, you're no longer a child you're an adult and when you're an adult some things are just no longer appropriate, like wearing a ton of pink and talking in a childish voice or even acting naive. It's the idea that childishness (aka. Cute) should be left to children. If adults act childish it's kind of repulsive, especially if they have children of their own, because it's like they are infringing on a territory that should belong only to children. It's weird and creepy when adults act like that. In the west you have a time to be a child and a time to be an adult.

Now on the other hand, in Japan, children aren't nearly so carefree. They have pressures on them that most over here would never put on any child or teenager. As such it's like they lose out on a lot of the 'happy-go-lucky' years so when they finally do become adults they carry a lot of longing for a return to the innocent days of childhood because their lives are anything but carefree. So it's becomes socially acceptable for 'cute' to remain into adulthood. Maybe in a way surrounding themselves with innocent, bright, cute things is a way of coping with a lot of the stress that is surrounding them in their every day life.

Over here there may be stress but there is still a lot of chances for adults to unwind and in some ways be carefree themselves where in Japan (so I understand) there are very few opportunities to unwind and to 'let it all hang out'.

I'm not an expert on the Japanese life or mindset so I could be way off but I hope I got the general idea of what I way trying to say across. :P

[maushan3]

Maybe it's because in the west children are allowed to be children for a longer time. In Japan at a fairly young age they are bogged down with stresses and responsibilities so in a way they don't really get to be carefree children.
I think you are right in a sense and not right in another. Japanese kids and teenagers are put so much pressure but at the same time they aren't given the responsibility to do things adults do, like hang out and go to parties. This is in which I think Japan is a little wrong. They're given so much responsibility yet they are thought of as children. Have a lot of pressure on them, ok, but at the same time let them have the freedom that belong to adults. I don't really understand this, they are thought of as adults in the sense of responsibility, so why not trust them take decisions on their own for a chance?

Over here there may be stress but there is still a lot of chances for adults to unwind and in some ways be carefree themselves where in Japan (so I understand) there are very few opportunities to unwind and to 'let it all hang out'.
Japanese adults are actually 'encouraged' to do things like get drunk until they pass out to let it all out.

Mauricio

[ASHIKAGA]

Maybe it's because in the west children are allowed to be children for a longer time. In Japan at a fairly young age they are bogged down with stresses and responsibilities so in a way they don't really get to be carefree children.
.......Now on the other hand, in Japan, children aren't nearly so carefree. They have pressures on them that most over here would never put on any child or teenager. As such it's like they lose out on a lot of the 'happy-go-lucky' years so when they finally do become adults they carry a lot of longing for a return to the innocent days of childhood because their lives are anything but carefree. So it's becomes socially acceptable for 'cute' to remain into adulthood. Maybe in a way surrounding themselves with innocent, bright, cute things is a way of coping with a lot of the stress that is surrounding them in their every day life.

Over here there may be stress but there is still a lot of chances for adults to unwind and in some ways be carefree themselves where in Japan (so I understand) there are very few opportunities to unwind and to 'let it all hang out'.:P

I think MadamePapillon makes a very good point here. It explains the Buzz Word "癒し（iyashi / Healing, Soothing, Nurturing) that you hear everywhere you go these days in Japan. I suppose CUTE belongs in that same category. Like Madame says, it could be that people are under a lot of stress and pressure they are looking for solace in cute things and such.

Mauricio is right when he says adults are encouraged to get drunk until they puke. However, it is often the case that it is something they feel they HAVE to do even if they don't want to when, again, pressured by your colleagues, bosses, business clients, etc. thus adding even more stress.

[molestthyguitarists]

im not sure how im going to think about this when i am an adult, but i'm 17, and i've been into the "cute" thing for a while now. i wear lolita clothes to school. i cosplay. i have cute stuff. but i dont overdo it. its a lifestyle but y'know, im not in Japan and i cant do that kind of stuff.
though i must say, a lot of the girls in my school are into the "cute" thing. mostly, theyre the cute tiny asian girls who date the VK lookalike boys and give girls like me inferiority complexes of all sorts. but some of them are like me... though i get annoyed when i see girls who overdo it, cuz its kinda weird looking on someone who's not asian. i guess i like it, but not too much. i would love it if it became more widespread...

incidentally did you know that there IS such a thing as a Hello Kitty vibrator??? no kidding.

[Dogen Z]

In an apparent in-your-face gesture to anti-cute factions, the Japanese gov't has appointed official ambassadors of cute to promote this culture. You can read about it here: http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20090228p2a00m0na019000c.html

Actually, you'll find that girls who dress up in these cute fashions are generally much more polite and refreshing than their jaded, cynical counterparts from the West.

[Remixer]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha

That article made me laugh so much, I almost fell off my chair. :D




Remixer

[Dogen Z]

I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

[Remixer]

Thankfully, I didn't.

Thanks for your (sarcastic?) worries. :)




Remixer

[Dogen Z]

Sarcasm, the refuge of the witless, is not my style.

I'm glad you're not hurt. :-)

[Remixer]

Oooooh, Derfel will beat the crap out of you for that! :D




Remixer

[MadamePapillon]

In an apparent in-your-face gesture to anti-cute factions, the Japanese gov't has appointed official ambassadors of cute to promote this culture. You can read about it here: http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20090228p2a00m0na019000c.html


:blush: Sometimes there's just nothing you can do but shake your head and laugh.
I vote for the Germans to start sending ambassadors of beer, we Canadians will do our part and send forth ambassadors of all that is hockey (looking at you Luongo).
Scotland, we're looking to you to set the mood, bagpipes at the ready.
Brazil ... time to pull out the ambassadors of Marti Gras. Now let's get this party started!!!
Dress code: KAWAIIIII :D


p.s.

Not exactly sure why you felt the need to post this:
Actually, you'll find that girls who dress up in these cute fashions are generally much more polite and refreshing than their jaded, cynical counterparts from the West.
What does Japan sending ambassadors of cute have to do with western girls? Oh that`s right, nothing. :okashii:

[Remixer]

Not exactly sure why you felt the need to post this:

What does Japan sending ambassadors of cute have to do with western girls? Oh that`s right, nothing. :okashii:


I believe you have misunderstood Dogen Z. He probably meant the general Japanese girl that wears a cute outfit is much more polite and well-mannered than a girl from the West.

I agree with Dogen Z. There is not much to be said in favor of the behaviour displayed by Western girls.

"As long as it's fun and nobody gets hurt, there is no problem"

Would be nice if the word self-restraint would appear somewhere in there.





Remixer

[molestthyguitarists]

the weird thing is that i was not surprised by the "ambassadors of cute" thing at all. -_-"
although you are right. a lot of us are cynical b*tches. :-)

[MadamePapillon]

I believe you have misunderstood Dogen Z. He probably meant the general Japanese girl that wears a cute outfit is much more polite and well-mannered than a girl from the West.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that exactly what he meant. What I don't understand is why he said it at all as it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand and is, frankly, insulting.

[MadamePapillon]

"Cute is for children and puppies."
I hear that all the time. Why, I wonder. Is there a point in our lives where we somehow stop finding certain things desirable for their cuteness? What is it that attracts young children in cute things that is not attractive to adults?

.....

In a place where it is encouraged to leave behind the cute once you become aware of the wonderful and scary world of sex, it is hard for those two things to coexist albeit in some kinky fetishes. However, in Japan, where people don't have to abandon cute when they reach a certain age group, those two things can happily coexist, even merge as one with very little stigma imposed by the society at large.
Japanese society is often characterized as conservative, but in this regard, in a way, it could provide a very liberal environment for you to be who you are.

Ok, reviving this thread to point out something I came to notice (and because this forum has been dead lately).

Despite all claims to the contrary that our societies (western) are lands where cute is reviled and pink is the colour of the devil and so on (at least in comparison to Japan) I've noticed a that cute is well and alive.

Unlike Japan that applies cute to adults/teenager and things that, frankly, are just not at all cute we prefer the 'puppies, kitties and children' approach to cute. We love things that are naturally cute with no forced effort and the sort of comedic cuteness that only comes when something/someone is doing it in complete innocence.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/
http://www.cuteoverload.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk

As evidence by the hugely massive popularity of sites like lolcats and the number of hits that clips of babys laughing gets on youtube. Cute and comedy go hand in hand.

I think this also goes a long way to explaining why so many people find Japans idea of cute either weird or even completely off putting. Cute to us is something that is completely spontaneous and natural and can be enjoyed by both men and women (I have actually seen several guys at work with lolcats as their wallpaper).

I think a lot of people that don't really understand Japans idea of cute come from this mentality and it's strange for them to see grown women 'acting cute' or for men to want women to be cute and childish as opposed to mature and sexy (coming from the mentality of a westerner where cute = young and innocent this could easily be seen as skimming the line into fetishes or even pedophilia for someone who doesn't know much about Japan).

So let us lay to rest the myth that westerners don't like cute things. Japan has a definite hand up on us in the cute overload department (to be honest I don't agree with the people that think this is normal and that we should adopt their 'cute mentality') but we have puppies, kittens and babies ... how much more cuteness do you need? :cool:

[molestthyguitarists]

I believe you have misunderstood Dogen Z. He probably meant the general Japanese girl that wears a cute outfit is much more polite and well-mannered than a girl from the West.

I agree with Dogen Z. There is not much to be said in favor of the behaviour displayed by Western girls.

"As long as it's fun and nobody gets hurt, there is no problem"

Would be nice if the word self-restraint would appear somewhere in there.





Remixer




hey, we do have self restraint, thank you very much, or else i would be headbanging in the library right now instead of just listening to really loud rock on my headphones. -_-"
and there are rotten apples in every country full of girls, y'know.

[Remixer]

Argh, you know exactly what I meant. :)




Remixer

[Derfel]

Wait... I want ambassadors of grim instead. Or ambassadors of The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife.

[molestthyguitarists]

in other news, the biggest and one of the oldest japanese visual kei bands, X Japan, have announced that they are collaborating with Sanrio to release a line of Hello Kitty dolls dressed up like members of X Japan back in the good old days.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/miranda1_0/A%20X%20Japan%20pileup/09_0306.jpg

Thats right. YoKitty, HideKitty, and all the others... -_-'


OMG I WANT THEM!!!




and as for america, i doubt we can have much on the ambassador front... except crap hip hop ambassadors, but i would just send those straight to hell.

[Derfel]

I cannot seem to understand how any allegedly rock band would want ridiculous dolls (I am not bashing dolls in general here, just certain overhyped sorts of dolls) made after them.

I would send hip hop ambassadors to the depths of hell myself, but for a certainty, I would not fail in sending Hello Kitty after them.

[molestthyguitarists]

hmm... well X are generally known for releasing pretty much everything and anything that you could slap their names onto, such as wine, shirts, lingerie, curry, plushies, dolls, barbies, guitars, clothing in general, jewelry, miniature crystal pianos and drum sets, et cetera... they would release a turd in a Yoshiki box, and well, all of us would buy it. myself included.

their music is amazing and they are very talented. 16th notes and all that. but they also sell well.


meantime, there is everything hello kitty. including vibrators. -_-"


one wonders if they will make a vibrator of a hello kitty version of the dead guitarist, Hide. :clueless:

[Derfel]

I think they'd have difficulties supplying all the authentic crap for the boxes. :D
I am not saying they're not talented. Its just that releasing merchandise indiscriminately is plain desperate.

http://store.magiccirclemusic.com/product/887/Manowar-Condom-%22Warrior's-Shield%22-Natural

Though it isn't inconsistent with their image lol.

[MadamePapillon]

meantime, there is everything hello kitty. including vibrators. -_-"

The road to hell is paved with discarded Hello Kitty memorabilia.

The first word in Hello Kitty isn't 'hell' for nothing. Be afraid, be very afraid. :evil:

[molestthyguitarists]

haha but lets face it, Kiss were doing the whole merch thing back when X's drummer was still a kid... theres this one interview where he is speaking in heavily accented engrish about how his mommy took him to see Kiss when he was 13 and he wanted to be a rocker ever since.
you could buy pretty much everything with Kiss on it. except, well, Hello Kitty. X have achieved hardcore status by attempting to release Hello Kitty merchandise without their balls falling off.

[Remixer]

Doesn't the very fact of a HelloKitty release mean their balls have already dropped off, though? :D




Remixer

[molestthyguitarists]

no, they are attempting to keep their balls attached WHILE releasing the Hello Kitty merch. but Yurga just wrote on the X thread that they are falling apart due to inferior management and conflict of contracts, thusly they will need some extra strength duct tape to keep them on.

[Remixer]

In all honesty, it doesn't really make a difference for me whether they keep their balls or not.

I still wouldn't be able to tell their sex. :D




Remixer

[konki_d]

Madame Papillon was pretty accurate on a lot of observations. There is a definite tie in Japan between cuteness and childhood, and childhood and escapism.

Cute is certainly associated with children in Japan, and this is a concept that is also common in the States. Stuffed animals, cartoon themed clothes, bright colors, and a penchant for the adorable constitute the core of many products designed and marketed for children.

In Japan, it could be stated that there is a more formal break between the cuteness of childhood and the responsibilities of adulthood. If you consider the seijin shiki (Coming of Adulthood Ceremony) as an example, we can see several formal and ritualized transitions in Japanese culture that mark the shift from childhood to adulthood. While turning 18 or even 21 in the States hold similar importance in the States, the overall shift is less formalized. In the States, the expectation to give up childhood things to move into adulthood may exist, but it would seem to exist as a less definite expectation.

And, so, in Japan, where cute things are more rigidly assigned to childhood, indulging in cute items can be seen as a means of artificially extending one's childhood. And, as Madame Papillon so excellently pointed out, with the demands and pressures of adulthood, it can be well understood why someone would want to leave adulthood and escape to childhood, even if vicariously through consumer products.

I honestly believe this is not so different in the States, though men may certainly face heavy social pressure to NOT feel nostalgic about cute things, and instead may channel their reminiscences of childhood into more "acceptable" avenues, such as sports. Still, bobble-head dolls can be pretty darn cute . . .

[molestthyguitarists]

i think they make X bobbleheads

[MadamePapillon]

i think they make X bobbleheads

Completely random but I've been eyeing the Vault-Tec bobbleheads ... I want one so bad. Damn you Fallout 3 >_<

[molestthyguitarists]

i want a hide plush!!! thank the gods of crap merchandise, i can own a dead guy doll!!

[Dogen Z]

IMO, and that's what the O.P. asked for, Japanese are cute because they have a competitive advantage in it. And, as we say in the West, "If you've got it, flaunt it."

BTW, I've never seen a "cute" salaryman. Men are supposed to be tough, and adult women can be cute, but not childish. I suppose some Westerners can't understand this. There's a different arrangement in the East, and flexible thinking is called for. As a vice president of Nike once told me, "Asia is different, and it's not about your standards."

Anyway, to flaunt their cuteness, I present you--MORNING MUSUME! :cool:

Ebh8vSEZXQM&feature=related

[MadamePapillon]

IMO, and that's what the O.P. asked for, Japanese are cute because they have a competitive advantage in it. And, as we say in the West, "If you've got it, flaunt it."


Well, Japan does do cute like no one else. But just to balance it out ....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z4xmxb9K8RI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z4xmxb9K8RI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Taylor Swift!! Yayz.

[Derfel]

Japan needs to make more of this kinda stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tHsPOjpKFY

Or this
http://www.organart.demon.co.uk/gallhammer.jpg

[Putrefaction]

I honestly believe this is not so different in the States, though men may certainly face heavy social pressure to NOT feel nostalgic about cute things, and instead may channel their reminiscences of childhood into more "acceptable" avenues, such as sports. Still, bobble-head dolls can be pretty darn cute . . .


I still watch cartoons and **** anyone who says differently. Bobble heads are collectibles! Well, that's about all the childish things I do...

[molestthyguitarists]

@Derfel: that is quite a good band...

hmm... here's old school X Japan for ya folks... decide for yourselves, hardcore or not...
D_Rw4QMtADk

you cannot accuse them of cuteness... not here...