Lost In Translation ; Japan/Bill Murray

[arnadstephen]

The Last Samurai
Lost In Translation
-- both in japan
-- critics already like "Lost In Translation"


august 31,2003
------------------------------
The small-budget romantic comedy ``Lost in Translation,'' directed by Sofia Coppola and starring Bill Murray, became the most talked about movie so far at the Venice Film Festival when it made its debut Sunday.

Critics and the public alike were won over by the film, which is about two people who stumble across each other in Japan and has slightly melancholic touches.

_.

[lineartube]

I saw it this weekend and I liked it. To give a bigger spin to the story, it's about a famous actor (Bill Murray) that goes to Tokyo to shoot a few commercials for Santori whisky (shameless movie plugs, but no worse than their westerner counterparts) and he is in his middle-crisis, while Scarlet Johansen portrays the young recent-married wife of a photographer, who is having a crisis about what is she, and what does she wants to do in life.
Tokyo, Japan is initially a place that alienates them completely, in the beginning of the movie, but their shared experiences are the core of the movie.

It's not a chick flick and its not a comedy though I would define it as existentialist comedy.

[Iron Chef]

Moved to the Movie forum (imagine that...)

I liked Translation as well. Both performances by Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray were really well done imho. A subtly bittersweet film that's ultimately uplifting (I still can't figure out what Bob whispers into Charlotte's ear there at the very end though). Definitely worth checking out.
:)

[lineartube]

I think it might be the meaning of life. :D

"What kind of restaurant makes his costumers cook their meal?" :D:D:D

Some of the cultural clashes are really funny.

That whisper scene is a nice touch to end the movie, and I think it isn't supposed for the public to understand what Bill is whispering, which gives it a nice touch since everyone in the audiance will have some sort of an idea of what transpired in that scene.

Sometimes the best things are best left to the imagination.

[tsukinoko]

I watched the movie two weeks ago.
The story is really nice and touching, but I didn't like how Japan was pictured!
Again all clichees were shown and nothing explained (okay, that was not at all the topic of the movie).
But it left a bitter aftertaste, because I love Japan! And I simply can't understand that they are bored while staying in the middle of Tokyo......
I think the makers of that movie don't know much about Japan.
For showing the clash of cultures and people who are feeling lost there it is not necessary to stick to the old prejudices, I think!

[budd]

"And I simply can't understand that they are bored while staying in the middle of Tokyo......"
sound like typical americans? to me

"I think the makers of that movie don't know much about Japan."
or they went and didn't have a fun/time as a result of their personality or chance

i haven't seen it (too cheap), but i must say that i have not met a native japanese person who doesn't like this movie, and ask if i have seen it. same for that samurai movie (:p by default as it is tom cruise prettyboy self starring)

[fsuman110]

tsukinoko, i'm gonna have to disagree on you about the cliches. that movie did a wonderful job of showing japan for what it is. naturally you cannot fit an entire culture into a 90 minute movie, but granted the average moviegoer is intelligent enough to know that, there should be no need for explaination. you are probably referring to the shabu-shabu scene, am i correct? that is just a typical american attitude, and it's not like Bob (Bill Murray) was even being serious. the point is, is that you must see things for what they are while at the same time not taking everything so seriously. if you were offended or think that Lost in Translation was cliched, i'd personally feel that you'd have some kind of unecessary japan-defense mode where anything that shows japan in a negative or even neutral light is offensive to you. i apologize if this is not the case, but it kinda sounded like it from your post.

[MHtrStevie]

I think another point that needs stressing about this film is that the focus of the film isn't Japan; it's the relationship between two characters in an unfamiliar setting. Japan is simply the setting, and as such is really shown in about as unbiased a form as possible. I didn't perceive any judgment about Japan... Japan is simply there, and the characters can interact with it any way they see fit.

Obviously we're not talking about two people who are total anime freaks, or follow the Oricon pop charts from their computer or even may have gone to a Japanese restaurant in America. Bill Murray's character especially... he doesn't know anything about Japan going in, and his character becomes interested in aspects of the culture (like when he tells his wife that they should start eating more Japanese cuisine). The Scarlett Johansson character obviously knows more about Japan, but her inability to "enjoy" herself doesn't stem from any dislike of the culture... she's feeling isolated by her husband's constant absence. Hey, I truly love all aspects of Japanese culture that I've encountered, but I think I'd still be pretty depressed wandering around Tokyo all by myself... experiences are more fun if there's someone like you to share the experience.

So you definitely can't watch this movie from the perspective of:

"What's wrong with those two? If I was there, I'd totally be having the best time ever! Do they hate Japan or something?"

The movie is about people, not Japan. Japan simply provides IMHO a majestic backdrop for this story to take place... and if you're a fan of J-Pop culture like me, then have fun spotting all the pop culture figures... like seeing Bill Murray interact with comedian Takashi Fujii or hearing the strains of classic '70s J-Rock band Happy End in the karaoke club.
That speaks volumes about how much the filmmakers actually DID know about Japan...

:cool:

[fsuman110]

^^^ exactly. well said.

[tsukinoko]

Mmmhhh.... I think I see your point, all of you. Probably I was a bit harsh with my opinion.
And that it is not a movie about Japan I know and mentioned already.
But I didn't only mean the shabu shabu scene, I can understand that people who don't know it can't appreciate it! I was more thinking about the "r"-"l" irritations they make fun about, and stuff like that (but, hey, maybe that was the problem in the german version, didn't watch it in original)! Come to think of that, probably we're not talking about exactly the same movie! Any Germans here who watched the movie in German???

I might be strange, but I'm not an anime-fan so much and only recently started to get into j-rock/pop and was still wandering around Tokyo and other places in Japan on my own and enjoyed it very much.
Well, probably because I'm just so much interested in Japan that I have fun with every little detail of this (to me still foreign) country.

Mmhhh, but for saying something about the movie, I am to fixed on Japan as my "big love", I see that! I think I watched the movie too much from that piont of view!

[MHtrStevie]

tsukinoko: Please don't take my comments too harshly... like I said, I was just trying to make the point that not everyone is going to enjoy Japan at the same level and we can't expect that as fans of Japanese culture. Not having been to Japan myself, I couldn't truly say how I might interact with that setting by myself...

I think I know what scene you're referring to with the "r"/"l" issue, and that is in the movie originally. I assume you mean the woman who asks Bill Murray to "lip her stockings", and Bill gets confused... but I thought that scene was done in good enough taste. It is a reality that one of the first major hurdles in an American or European learning Japanese is that while there are two distinct characters for R and L in the Roman alphabet, in Japanese there really isn't... there's one character whose sound is halfway in between, and so to the uninformed ear that sound will be heard as the opposite of what's expected. Bob's ear is pretty uninitiated to Japanese pronunciations, so he could get confused... to me, it wasn't over the top and was more observational humor than anything else.

But I just heard today some people on the radio who seemed to think that the point of the movie was how boring Tokyo is as a city... which completely misses the point, but I guess the movie can give that impression to people. It's too bad really... but like any movie it's always open to interpretation.

Anyway, it's always good to get some intelligent discussion going about movies and these topics... and it's nice to meet some new people who saw and enjoyed this film.

:wave:

[cmetom]

But it left a bitter aftertaste, because I love Japan! And I simply can't understand that they are bored while staying in the middle of Tokyo......


well this has been answered already, but i'll put it in my own words :-)
the characters, esp. at the start, are totally foreign to everything and are not interested in discovering anything - bob is there to make some money and "take a break" from his wife, as he says. he's also having a bit of a mid-life crisis.
charlotte went along because her husband was going there for work, and doesn't know what do to alone. she's also having a little "i just finished a psyc. degree at uni and not only do i not know what i want to do, but i feel alienated from the world" crisis.

so both of them start off not interested in the japan they are presented with - neat clean 5-star taxis and limos, neat clean 5-star hotel rooms, a view of a city that looks like any other skyscraper-dominated metropolis, an airhead american actress "wowing" the press with her weak knowledge of japanese society.. *rolls eyes*
when they go out with Charlie they get to spend time with less stereotypical and more relatable people (that is, people they can relate to).

the teasing-joke about "L" vs. "R" i think is more of a "hey, i wish i actually KNEW why, but i don't so i'll make a joke about it".... it didn't offend me at all.

i actually heard that Sofia Coppola knows lots about Japan and had lived there for a while at some point. i think it shows - stereotypes are nonexistant, and only seem that way if it's because they are true. not that i know any that well anyway...
one love i have for the film is that it shows me modern japan! some people were saying that japan was just the backdrop, which is partially true as the characters are the centre. but if u look at "you're under arrest live action", japan really IS just a backdrop. the cop-scenarios could take place anywhere.
likewise, you could set "lost in translation" in any country that is foreign to the main characters, but Sofia really makes japan noticable - it is a character in itself, IMO.

anyway, i love the movie and have seen it twice (just today was my second turn!). can't wait for the dvd and commontary from Sofia.

cmetom
:cool:

[Uncle Frank]

I hated the movie! I went out & bought the DVD the day it went on sale. All the hype & awards etc. really got my expectations high. I saw no on-screen chemistry between the main chacters. The diaolog put me to sleep and the shots of around Japan might as well have been in a commercial for something; nothing spectacular. I seem to be the only one I know disapointed with it.

Frank

[cmetom]

ahh well - it's a shame you didn't get a good experience from it.

interestingly, we've had no such hype about it here - although for an 'art' film it has a pretty wide release. it is currently still in cinemas and has been for about 2 months (australia).

[michi]

I loved watching "Lost In Translation" in theatres. The movie has a certain aura that gives me a warm feeling inside. Yeah, sounds cliche, but it does.

Hopefully "Lost In Translation" will win some well deserved Oscars tonight.

[Ewok85]

I saw it in Ginza and laughed my ass off, cause I was also a poor lost person in Tokyo. Its not hard to be bored in Japan if you know noone and dont know the language.

[Hachiko]

Lost in Translation is a great movie. I may consider buying the DVD of it.

[thomas]

I saw the movie yesterday and loved it. Couldn`t find any of those "cliches" some people in this thread are referring to... :-)

[Hachiko]

I saw the movie yesterday and loved it. Couldn`t find any of those "cliches" some people in this thread are referring to... :-)

No wonder it won the Oscar for Best Writing (Original Screenplay). :-)

[budd]

i didn't know anyone my first time (well, i did, but schedulng confilcts prevented)
tokyo is such a vibrant city, with plenty of colors (imo)
a lot of my japanese friends that live here (and abroad) seem to like the movie (i haven't seen it), so i guess it can't be all that bad

[leeloog]

I really loved this movie. I just downloaded from the internet because it hasn`t arrived to my country yet (Chile). One if the reasons why i wanted to watch it is because fisrt im studying for being a translator and the title of the movie caught my attention inmediately and second, because i love Japan and it`s culture. Since im from the other part of the world, im always curious about different cultures and that`s what i love about this movie.

I really liked Scarlett J. I have seen some other movies from here, when she was a little girl and it`s interesting to know that she is becoming a really good actress.

Im also trying to figure out what Bill says to Scarlett at the end of the movie....It`s a nice movie. Its shows a beautiful tokio full of live. Even though i`ve never been there...:P

[dreamer]

Indeed it was a good movie...
I liked it even if lot of my friends disliked it.
However to me it shows how much Tokyo's busy and empty at the same time.

[Uncle Frank]

I'm outvoted about 20 to 1. I guess I'll go back and watch it again.

Frank
:mad: :shock:

[Satori]

I just rented this movie and saw it for the first time this week (I know, I'm behind the times). I didn't think it showed Japan in any derogatory light. Instead, I thought the film did a very good job of showing how these characters would be "lost" anywhere, as they were "lost" in their lives before they even came to Japan.

But here's what I'm dying to know: What did the director say to Bill Murray's character? Since I don't know Japanese, I missed a lot in that scene!! His assistant kept translating it as "more intensity," but I know there was a lot more to it than that. What did he say to him?? (Inquiring minds want to know!)

[Maciamo]

I've just seen the movie (yes, I know, I am late :p) and like Thomas, didn't find any stereotypes, if it weren't for the weird TV presenter and his Japanese dance. Tokyo in the film is very much like it is and is felt in real.

I agree with Frank when he says there is nothing spectacular, but I didn't expect big frills either, so I wasn't disappointed. I particularily liked it because it's shot and Tokyo were I live, which gives it a feeling of being at home. The atmosphere is relaxing and the main characters played their role irreproachably.

I've added the DVD to the JREF Shop (http://www.jref.com/shop/showproduct.php?product=167&sort=7&cat=25&page=1) in case anyone else wants to see it. Please post your comments and ratings (and a copy-paste from this thread) there as well. The shop is an extension of the forum (same login), and posts there are also counted here. The same goes for the gallery.

[dreamer]

But here's what I'm dying to know: What did the director say to Bill Murray's character? Since I don't know Japanese, I missed a lot in that scene!! His assistant kept translating it as "more intensity," but I know there was a lot more to it than that. What did he say to him?? (Inquiring minds want to know!)
As far as i've understood he was telling him how to pose, there's no time to lose, and giving him advice
but globally it was "put it in more intensity" ^^

[Satori]

As far as i've understood he was telling him how to pose, there's no time to lose, and giving him advice
but globally it was "put it in more intensity" ^^

Oh, okay. Thanks! It just seemed like I missed a lot in that translation (just as he felt), and that part wasn't subtitled on the English versions.

[kirei_na_me]

I have yet to see it and I want to. I'm always way behind because I have no one who goes to the theater with me. Nobody wants a few hours away from their kids, they live too far away, or they just don't like movies... :rolleyes:

So, I will see this once it comes on HBO/Cinemax/whatever. Like always.

[suzu]

with the r/l thing, I saw the movie with some one who doesn't know much about japan and they didn't get it at all. I was laughing and they were just sitting there with a blank look on their face :D that just made me laugh more

[leeloog]

Suzu, i know what u mean. Same happened to me. I didnt get the r/l thing. It was kind of confusing, especially the part when bill murray is in the hotel room with the japanese woman. So im sure you would have laugh at me too because i was in a blank look too! :p

I will have to watch it again.. :shock:

[dreamer]

Oh, okay. Thanks! It just seemed like I missed a lot in that translation (just as he felt), and that part wasn't subtitled on the English versions.
It wasn't subtitled in the french verstion as well ^^

[duff_o_josh]

the movie was gold, pure gold...although i found it hard to tell if scarlett johanson and bill murray's relationship was just friendship or a bit of love....

[dreamer]

Hum...how would you interpret the ending kiss?

[suzu]

that part really baffeled me, but I think that it was just friendship. but hey, what do I know?

[Uncle Frank]

I think it was just a close friendship; more like a father daughter thing. A man of principle wouldn't be looking for a sexual thing with a girl that much younger in that type of encounter. Part of being older is letting go of the sex-thing and going for the deeper plutonic relationship.

Frank

:mad:

[Brooker]

I know this isn't going to be very popular around here and most of my friends disagree with me, but I was very disappointed with this movie. I was really looking forward to seeing Japan in a movie and maybe I built it up too much, but I thought it was painfully slow and pointless. But my biggest disappointment was that the story didn't really have much to do with Japan. They could have done the same story in a hotel in Pittsburg.

And now everyone who saw the movie and hasn't been to Japan thinks that Japan is a boring place. I think Japan is a very interesting place and try to spead the word to others. The characters seemed to have a very "it's different so it's weird" attitude toward everything. Everything is going to suck if you approach it with a closed mind. Maybe those characters weren't there to see Japan, but I don't think Joe Average Film-goer who's never been to Japan is going to take that into account.

I know it's just a movie, but movies do shape people's perceptions of things. I wasn't offended by the movie, there was just nothing about it that I enjoyed. However, I appreciate that a lot of people saw something in it that they really liked, and that has value.

You may now proceed to tear me apart.....

[dreamer]

Hum...the movie's not meant to show exactly what japan looks like.
The aim of the movie was to show 2 western people lost into an eastern country.
S. coppola said herself that she was trying to represent what she was feeling back then and i think she successfuly gave us her personnal experience.

[mad pierrot]

And I give it 3 stars out of 4. In retrospect, I'd give it more if I'd seen it before I came to Japan. Still a good film. Bill Murry is awesome. On a side note, did anyone else love the "Suntory Times" part? That part had me rolling on the ground in laughter.

:D :D :D

[dreamer]

same here lol
but there were other funny scenes too ^^

:emblaugh: :emblaugh: :emblaugh: :emblaugh:

[MHtrStevie]

Brooker: We're a friendly lot here... so there's nothing to worry about!

Check a little earlier in this thread, as we had some discussion on that very subject... I loved the movie, but I definitely agree that the movie's plot wasn't reliant on the film being in Japan. However, I was thrilled that the film *was* set in Japan, and the setting just convinced me more that I'd like to visit that country someday...

But here's an interesting exercise, as it seems like some fans of Japanese culture may have entered this film with some pre-conceived notions: How would you have portrayed Japan differently in the film? What was it about her portrayal that disappointed you?

My argument from above was that you can't enjoy the film if you try to put yourself, a fan of Japan, into the place of the characters... these aren't devotees of J-Pop culture we're dealing with here. The Scarlett character would be the "expert" of the two, and that's only because it looks like she's been in Tokyo once or twice... Bill Murray's character never had any interest in Japan, but he certainly seemed to be picking up things that he enjoyed, even telling his wife at one point that they should start eating more Japanese cuisine at home.

But that's a good question, I think: What about Japan do you feel was underrepresented? How could Sofia Coppola have used Japan as a setting that would have pleased you more?

Nice to meet you, by the way...

:wave:

[Brooker]

You raise some good questions Stevie. I don't think my objection was so much to the portrayal of Japan, but to the unenthusiastic response by the characters in the story. And those characters are entitled to any response they want, but I was disappointed that Japan wasn't portrayed as being the awe-inspiring place that it was for me - but I'll live. And, you're right, as a Japan-devotee I wanted the story to be more about Japan and I really didn't care about the story of the characters at all. So, yes, I admit, I did have a bias going into the film. But the story really didn't hold my interest no matter where it would have taken place.

Oh, nice to meet you too.

[mad pierrot]

I'll agree with Brooker on that; I did find the main character's response to Japan annoying. But like its been pointed out, it's not really a movie about Japan, eh? Still, here's a question:

Which did you like better, Lost in Trans. or The Last Sam.?

Which had more cliches?

[Brooker]

I really liked "The Last Samurai"! It had a lot more to do with Japan, but not just that, the story was interesting regardless of the location.

The subtle story telling techniques of "Lost in Translation" were similar to the techniques used in the movie "Pi" which I also didn't like because it was too slow to hold my interest.

I'm not an action movie fan, but I need a little more "action" than those movies offered to keep me interested.

[dreamer]

Lol then you'd better watch movies like ring or so ^^

[Budderfly]

I loved LIT and it made me want to go to Japan even more. I'd post a longer review, but I pretty mch agree with what other people posted here. ;)

[1930]

I thought the movie was ok, but completely lacked in depth. Murray did the character that suits him best, also seen in for instance The cradle will rock or even Groundhog day, but Johansson her character was so undeveloped. She studied philosophy apparantly but where does that reflect itself in the movie? also the depiction of japan itself is completely lacking. ok we all laughed with the stereotypes, and yeah americans could probably use a more diverse menu, but what about the rich culture and mythology that makes japan into the most beautiful country in the world? i understand that the main focus was the relationship between the two protagonists, but why all this occurs in a Japanese setting per se, I can't say...but apart from all this, the movie does indeed have it's merit, it's just that the scripting could have used a lot more work and maybe it could have been a lot better still if it were made by someone else than "the daughter of"...just my two cents, feel free to disagree :)

[Sessha]

the director tells him that the santorini whiskey is the best and very expensive. so he should act like he's meeting old friends and wants to sell it to them.
i don't know how to interpret it but this scene is supposed to tell the non-japanese speaker that japanese is such a long language. i think sofia coppola included some gags only for japanese-speakers. because when bob goes to the talk-show and the host says in japanese "you look like an idiot but, of course, i'm very happy to have you here!" :blush:

[TwistedMac]

hehe.. since this wound has been opened again ... i'll say i was alittle dissapointed in the movie as the silent moments or romantic-looking-out-the-window moments got drawn out too much..

some of the quotes are golden though and at times i was laughing my ass off..

"short and sweet, very japanese. I like that"

i think japanese girls are short and sweet too! :rose: me and Bill are like, totally the same!

[Brooker]

This was one of the first threads I ever posted on, and now it's back. :mad: Wow, look at me now. :v:

[RockLee]

I liked the movie 2....but it disappointed me at some points though :souka:

[blessed]

LIT was good, I'm a Murray fan so I have little to complain.
THe end kiss was actually initiated by murray cause he could have just driven by... also I think the end of the film doesn't mean that they have to seperate, after all murray is quite a famous star in the film, so finding him wouldn't be too hard. I'd say this was the better of the two films.

The Last Samurai was great and I liked it a lot, appart from the fact that Cruise lives at the end. I mean he survived a frigin hail of bullets. OPh yeah, and the EMperor speaking in English... that was a bit far fetched (and his accent was a bit camp :D ).

[Sessha]

This was one of the first threads I ever posted on, and now it's back. :mad: Wow, look at me now. :v:

it was just a must as i watched it again yesterday and it got better. some of my japanese friends said it was so embarrassing. especially matthew from the talk-show. but, hey, they don't only hav such nutty birds in japan. :souka:
it's much funnier for people who know japan, tho.

[kirei_na_me]

Ok, I'm sorry, but I just have to bring this back.

I know I'm wayyyyyyyyy late, but I just watched it on DVD. That is what happens when one has no one to watch movies with... :(

Anyway, I absolutely loved it. I thought Bob and Charlotte had great chemistry and I kept thinking, "why don't they just do it?!", but I'm glad it didn't happen. I think it was just perfect the way it ended up. I love both Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray too, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

Also, I didn't think it was too stereotypical. I actually thought it was right on the money in most situations.

A very good movie that I will be watching over and over again. :p

So, what do you think he said to her?

[Gaki]

The ending kinda confused me, think i might have to watch it again.

The bit when the woman was asking him to "lip her stockings" made me laugh so much. :D

[kirei_na_me]

That was hilarious. I loved it when she started kicking and screaming down on the floor.

[ArmandV]

On the ending, Bob Harris felt that the goodbye in the hotel lobby was insufficient. Lucky for him, he spots Charlotte from the limo and dashes out to really express himself and do a much more meaningful goodbye.

Although you can't really hear much when he whispers in her ear, but I caught that he wants her to join him on some sort of tour.

[acquiredtarget]

Just picked the dvd up a fw weeks ago. Good flick. I liked it a lot. I'd like to know where Coppola came up with the idea. Great one. I was a little dissappointed with the lounge singer situation. Dunno why, just am. But overall, good choice in actors. Well, perfect choice for Murray.

[Apollo]

That was hilarious. I loved it when she started kicking and screaming down on the floor.

One of my favororite scenes....hahah :D

Also, "Sinatora, do you know Sinatora" :D

[Apollo]

:p

So, what do you think he said to her?

I think he said something like: "I have an idea for you book now. Write about us.."

[ArmandV]

I think he said something like: "I have an idea for you book now. Write about us.."


Really? You really must have good ears because all I can get out of it is "mumble, mumble...tour...mumble." :cool:

[Apollo]

Really? You really must have good ears because all I can get out of it is "mumble, mumble...tour...mumble." :cool:

HEHEHE...:D Yes, I have a very good imagination......

[furan]

i whent to see this for my 16th *feels like so long ago*
i adored the film, and i'd really like to see it again.
being a huge ghostbusters fan, i love bill murry... he's such a great guy, and i loved his character... i think he really made it his own.

the thing i loved about this film... ws that id DIDN'T make a huge thing about japan. it >could< just have easily been set in russia... but... i think the fact it was did leave a lot of opportunity for some great jokes.
there were some really beautifull shots of tokyo... and i loved that they could just have it there in the background. they didn't play out with typical traditional japan, or make any serious steiotypes... it was just there hmming pleasently in the background... and i think it gave me a really good idea of what it would be like to be ther as a foriner(sp?).
lol, me being the ad act i am, i cryed at some of the shots of tokyo because it was so beautiful... but i loved the sublty of the story... and how it just worked....

ofcause, i was the ONLY one who liked the film ^^; i think my friends put up wth it because it was my birthday... but in general thay hated it and said it was 'boring'.
... but hen they're into the cruddyness of typical hollywood drivil in which you've got a hott guy, who meets a hott girl and they have a 'problem' about being together but in the end it's all hugs and kisses and they get together.... *ugh* THAT bores me

[strawberry_momokan]

i really liked that movie. it was so beautiful and fun! My favorite part was the pole dancers lol

[kenken]

i watched this boring movie called "lost in translation"
what a terribe movie!
i got really annoyed it and hate it.
does this direator want to made japanese people mad?
most japanese feel annoying this movie because it make a fool of japan and japanese.
i know the story isn't about japan but yet!
there is no such a useless interpretation and there aren't such a japanese.
if they wanna make a film overseas,they need to know about japan.
there are guy who say this film draw about japan well,but do you really know about japan?
maybe i think you don't know real japan.
you may image wrong japan by mistake.
i like hollywood movie very much,but it is the most trashy movie i've ever seen.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I have to agree with kenken.
At first I was really excited about this movie. I had heard an excerpt from the movie (the whiskey commercial scene), and it sounded really funny. But then I saw this beast. Honestly the only reason I saw it to its end was the fact that I had paid money to rent it. I can't say say enough enough bad things about it.

Bill Murray, who I usually like, was about 2 shades from a coma, he was so deadpan.
Granted I don't live in Kabuki-cho, but that is not the Japan that I know. The Japan I know is nowhere near so decadent, although I don't deny that decedence exists aplenty.
The story romanticizes an extra-marital affair.
It wasn't funny, moving, provacative, or even interesting.
It was annoying. I am very happy that I will never have to see it again.

[cmetom]

i watched this boring movie called "lost in translation"
what a terribe movie!
i got really annoyed it and hate it.
does this direator want to made japanese people mad?
most japanese feel annoying this movie because it make a fool of japan and japanese.
i know the story isn't about japan but yet!
there is no such a useless interpretation and there aren't such a japanese.
if they wanna make a film overseas,they need to know about japan.
there are guy who say this film draw about japan well,but do you really know about japan?
maybe i think you don't know real japan.
you may image wrong japan by mistake.
i like hollywood movie very much,but it is the most trashy movie i've ever seen.

the director is interested in japan and has many japanese friends, and lived there working and exploring in her 20's.

can you give examples where this movie makes a fool of japan and japanese? i think the one place the movie is silly in this way is the times when Bob cannot understand with the mixup of sounds of "L" and "R".
i don't think this reflects poorly on Japanese, but on the American who cannot understand - it makes a fool of Americans who have little understanding of a world or types of English language that are different from their own.

the film touches on the issue that they American characters DON'T know the real japan at all. Charlotte wants to learn things - the language barrier stops her learning further, but she sees a temple, flower arranging, etc.
Bob doesn't really want to be in Japan but he needs the money... so he isn't interested in the japanese 'culture' he is first presented with: a western hotel, strict business schedules and severe lack of freedom within that, etc.

Bob starts to change when he goes off with Charlotte to hang out with those friends of hers, and they talk and stuff in those bars and clubs and sing karaoke and all that - kenken, is that NOT what Japan is like? it was like that all the times i've been there - i have favourite bar in Tokyo where i went alone and made friends with Japanese people there and drank and sang and had a great time. this is not Japan?


I think the image of Japan the movie shows is not wrong - all those things are there, and exist and are real. You must think its wrong because that is not your Japan, that is not how you see or experience or know Japan.

unfortunately, if you say "this is wrong, it is not Japan" and you do not think 'maybe for some people - for confused gaijin - this IS Japan', then maybe that means you are ignoring other cultures and other ways Japan can be seen?

[senseiman]

I think the image of Japan the movie shows is not wrong - all those things are there, and exist and are real. You must think its wrong because that is not your Japan, that is not how you see or experience or know Japan.
unfortunately, if you say "this is wrong, it is not Japan" and you do not think 'maybe for some people - for confused gaijin - this IS Japan', then maybe that means you are ignoring other cultures and other ways Japan can be seen?

I liked the movie, but I can totally understand why Kenken doesn't. While, yes, all of those things exist in Japan, together they don't present anywhere near an accurate representation of Japan.

Now movies don't have to make accurate representations of reality, which is one of the reasons I still like the movie. But on the other hand, I know that if I saw a movie that presented a lopsided view of Canada by exaggerating some aspect of our society (ie everybody plays hockey and likes beer) then I'd probably find it annoying. I've never met an Australian (for example) who doesn't hate "Crocodile Dundee" with a passion for pretty much the same reason.

So I can see why Japanese people wouldn't like the movie. It makes Japan look like this crazy place which it really isn't. As a film I liked it a lot, great acting, great soundtrack, great cinematography. But I'm looking at it from the perspective of a foreigner.

[cmetom]

hmm a good point i suppose...

i like crocodile dundee by the way :P... i don't care much for steve irwin though so i do see what you're saying..

i've travelled around australia though and seen the kind of places the dundee movies are set in and i know that while they're telling tall tales in the story of the movie, the backdrops and the characters are real or are based on real kinds of people.

i didn't see any truly offensive and outright wrong portrayals of japan or japanese people in 'lost in translation'... but i do accept that i am a foreigner - not to say my view is wrong, but it's of course different.


p.s. yay canada <3

[kirei_na_me]

My husband was offended by it... :okashii:

I thought it was GREAT.

I'd go more into detail on my thoughts about it, but I think I can spare the controversy...

[Pachipro]

I went out and bought the DVD based on the recommendations and reviews. Honestly, my wife and I just didn't get the movie. I wish now I had rented it instead.

Perhaps I will have to watch it again as I too thought it was a boring movie. Maybe I should pay more attention to the story line instead of concentrating on it being filmed in Japan with all it's exagerations and all. If I were to rate it on just one viewing I would give it a "thumbs down."

[Hideki_Matsui_Beast]

I thought this was a GREAT movie. I loved the whole -love story, not a love story, love story, maybe could be a love story, yeah it was a love story- journey that it takes us on.

It pokes fun at a little of Japan's current culture, but a quick glance through the J-Pop section shows me that maybe someone needed to. I didn't think it went over the top in any way though. It showed what I would imagine an American like me would feel like in Japan.

Whether or not Japan is really as crazy as the movie shows, I think an outsider like me or Bill Murray's character would probably see it that way on an initial visit. I could be wrong though. :p

I thought it was hilarious and is definitely a Top Ten movie on my personal list. I also really wonder what he whispered to her.

[queuebert]

I just rewatched this movie about an hour ago. First time I watched it was about two years ago. Since that time, I have:
- studied Japanese for a year and a half
- been to Japan twice
- seen about 30 episodes of Matthew's Best Hit TV
- eaten sukiyaki for the first time

It's a different show now, but I still loved it, possibly even more.

[cmetom]

:wave:Revisiting this thread & topic a good 15 months after its last post...

I was saddened by the negative comments about LIT, particularly from Japanese posters. I wish I could change their minds though, because I love this movie and I love Japan. I wish everybody could watch this movie and see how amazing Japan is.

The big issues of it seeming offensive to Japanese viewers depends on how it is viewed in the context of what other western films the viewers have seen & their understanding of how westerners understand Japan. I think if only the stereotypes are taken into consideration, then only the stereotypes will be seen when watching the movie.


As an example: The scene where Bob and Charlotte are in the elevator with many Japanese businessmen. Bob towers over the Japanese, height-wise.

Perhaps a Japanese person sees that and thinks "Americans are so rude and ignorant, making us look small in comparison to them".
I saw it and thought "Wow, Bob feels so out of place, and being so tall isn't helping the feeling."
To be stuck thinking about stereotypes is to miss the point of the scene, and also be ignorant to the fact that Bill Murray is very tall - stereotypes aside, he is going to tower over just about anybody & the camera simply captures this. I feel like asking critics "Wouldn't it be false to cover up this height difference with movie-tricks, just so you're not offended by reality?".


The "Lip my stocking" scene where Bob is somewhat fighting with the lady to understand and be understood.
I know just about everybody complains that the "L/R sound" joke is old. Yes it is. I agree and think the scene is a bit too silly. I don't even like watching it on repeat viewings of the DVD.

I guess the 'offensive' bit to Japanese is where she can't pronounce "Rip". But really, when I watched it I thought to myself "ok, Bob just can't understand what she's saying - it's Bob's problem and Bob's mistake". Again, HOW a particular person interprets this scene is affected by their opinions and experiences (or lack thereof).

As an Australian who has travelled in the United States and Canada, and who lives in Canada, I have been on both sides of the misunderstanding-accented-English fence. It really comes from a lack of context, or a failure to recognise the context of the meaning of the words. Bob in the movie is slow on the uptake, and can't place the context for the action of ripping with what he hears her saying ("lip my stocking").

I work at a copy shop and just this Saturday a lady came in and asked for a colour copy of a photo she had with her. I said "What kind of paper would you like it on?" because we have glossy and matte and thin and heavy and so on.
She looked at me and said (in my accent) "Paper?" (in her accent) "What's that?"
I'll explain now that the way I say paper could be spelt "paypa" in 2 very short syllables. She says "paiprrr" with one short and one long syllable (the 2nd emphasising the "R" on the end of paper, in contrast to my completely dropping the "R").

If she had made the connection from photocopiers, printing materials and the word I said, she should have been able to work out that I meant paper. I doubt she was expecting that I would have an accent though, so the strange pronunciation of paper caught her off-guard and she was unable to quickly interpret what I meant.

Similarly, Bob is in his western hotel room on his 2nd night (? I forget) in Japan where he definitely is not fitting in yet. All of a sudden he is faced with a somewhat persistent and roleplayingly-dramatic female company, and he's not even close to thinking about sex or stocking ripping - he just wants her to leave - so he's not making the connection between the words he hears and what they mean based on the context.

Later on when he's in the crowded bar with Charlotte and is talking with Charlie Brown and his friends, he's not mixing up L's and R's. He's been in Japan a bit longer, he's more familiar with how Japanese English accents sound, and he's in a more relaxed environment. This kind of contrast I find is a very realistic representation of human interactions when faced with language and accent barriers - under pressure it's very difficult and when relaxed it's easy.


I don't believe LIT portrays a 'lopsided' or false view of Tokyo or Japanese people. Based on my travels and experiences in Japan and other places, I find it to be very very realistic. I think if people are offended or feel it's unrealistic, there is something they are ignoring or not understanding which is clouding their judgment.

[senseiman]

I don't believe LIT portrays a 'lopsided' or false view of Tokyo or Japanese people. Based on my travels and experiences in Japan and other places, I find it to be very very realistic. I think if people are offended or feel it's unrealistic, there is something they are ignoring or not understanding which is clouding their judgment.

Nothing is being ignored or clouding their judgment, its just that naturally Japanese people have a different view of their society and culture than you as a tourist would have.

Yes, as a representation of Tokyo from the point of view of American tourists staying there for a few days the film is probably accurate. From the point of view of a Japanese person who has lived in Tokyo their whole life however the film paints a picture that is wildly at odds with their own experience.

The "Rip my stockings" scene wasn't offensive because of the pronounciation issue. Some people find it offensive because it portrays Japanese women as ridiculous, submissive, sexual objects willing to humiliate themselves at the feet of foreign men. If I was a Japanese woman, I would HATE that scene.

[undrentide]

The "Rip my stockings" scene wasn't offensive because of the pronounciation issue. Some people find it offensive because it portrays Japanese women as ridiculous, submissive, sexual objects willing to humiliate themselves at the feet of foreign men. If I was a Japanese woman, I would HATE that scene.

Exactly! It has nothing to do with the wrong pronunciation.
I would not be offended if it is all about the pronunciation, as it does reflect the fact and truth.

And yes, I do hate that scene. Most embarrassing, annoying, and offensive.

[marsans]

Exactly! It has nothing to do with the wrong pronunciation.
I would not be offended if it is all about the pronunciation, as it does reflect the fact and truth.

And yes, I do hate that scene. Most embarrassing, annoying, and offensive.

Bah, I love that scene!

However I think you guys are misunderstanding the scene. She isn't some regular Japanese women throwing herself at the feet of a foreigner . She is a prostitute, and being paid for what shes doing.

[undrentide]

Bah, I love that scene!

However I think you guys are misunderstanding the scene. She isn't some regular Japanese women throwing herself at the feet of a foreigner . She is a prostitute, and being paid for what shes doing.

Whether she's "professilnal" or not, that scene makes me feel as I described - it is the way she behaves so abnormally and weired.

Well, everyone has his own taste and preference, so it is OK that some people love it or hate it. The problem - the reason I feel (as a Japanese) annoyed and disgusted and frustrated about this flim is that many take it as the "real" Japan for everyone, and not one of the possible portraits of Japan that foreigners who don't know Japan (new to Japan and its culture) tend to have.

I don't think that the producer had intention to show the "real Japan" with this film at all, it could be any country, just as far as it is where the main two characters don't understand the language, culture, etc. it was OK. The flim I think is focused on how the two Americans would behave in such an extreme situation. So there are a lot of exaggeration/distortion to make the situation even clearer. It is not "real, life-size" Japan.
:sick:

[Homerduff]

I stumbled on this movie a few weeks ago and tought I might buy it. My conclusion is, I'm quite dissapointed with the way how Japan is pictured in the movie. Again it seems like Japan is a country full of morrons and the American people are ofcourse perfect. For example the repetitive amount of remarks that are made on the Japanese way of talking English. Ofcourse it's just a movie and it's sad but true, this happens in real life too in Japan.

It was nice though to see a lot of familiar places in Tokyo again.