Really ? - Japanese cities among most expensive in world

[Astroboy]

UK Newspapaer - Telegraph - says
Japanese cities among most expensive in world
The global financial crisis has propelled Japanese cities into four of the top five places on a list of of the most expensive parts of the world for foreigners to live....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/3556697/index.html

According to Telegraph,
It was Japan that dominated the top end of the poll, with the capital Tokyo named the second most expensive place followed closely by the Japanese cities Yokohama, Nagoya and Kobe. While none of the Japanese cities featured in the top ten last year, their promotion to the upper ranks of the league table reflect a strengthened yen in Japan that has resulted in a sharp increase in living expenses.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01133/tokyo_1133685c.jpg
I personally believe that despite soaring JPY exchange rate, living cost in Japan must be reasonable.

Your life in Japan is tough as Telegrah said ? :smoke:

[nice gaijin]

It's hard to measure anything with a broken ruler.

This 'study' is meant to determine the cost of living for expatriates based on goods and services commonly purchased by foreign residents. It doesn't detail what those items might be, and as those products are apparently imported, the exchange rate and the rarity of those items may wildly affect the results. Something tells me Luanda, ANGOLA isn't the most expensive place in the world to live.

Regardless of where you live, adapting to the local culture is crucial to living reasonably. This study assumes that foreigners insist on living the same lifestyle as if they were still in their home country. Tokyo IS a very expensive place to live, but people do manage to live there.

More junk science.

[Astroboy]

It's hard to measure anything with a broken ruler.

This 'study' is meant to determine the cost of living for expatriates based on goods and services commonly purchased by foreign residents. It doesn't detail what those items might be, and as those products are apparently imported, the exchange rate and the rarity of those items may wildly affect the results. Something tells me Luanda, ANGOLA isn't the most expensive place in the world to live.

Regardless of where you live, adapting to the local culture is crucial to living reasonably. This study assumes that foreigners insist on living the same lifestyle as if they were still in their home country. Tokyo IS a very expensive place to live, but people do manage to live there.

More junk science.

Agree. I heard that many foreign expatriates (e.g. financial institutions) live at VERY expensive apartment of million yen monthly rent in Azabu, Roppongi and Shibuya.

[JerseyBoy]

My company pays about JPY 1.5 million per month for the chairman's housing in Tokyo. Older condos or houses in Tokyo are within the reach of the middle class earners in Japan, I think. But, most of the units (excluding the very high end) are very small and very close to each other (lack of open space between individual units). Well, that is a given in such a crowded city as Tokyo.

Is it really worth that much money? That would be a personal opinion (apparently, for some, it is) I would go with a house with a big yard in the suburb near the major metros in USA.

[Chidoriashi]

Japan is not bad. I think the average worker is given better pay and bonuses than in places like the US... The income gap between the rich and poor in Japan is pretty low comparatively. So that kind of makes up for the cost of everyday items and food being a bit more expensive. If food/energy etc was not cheap in the US i think half of the underpaid hardworking population could not survive.
Bottom line, it's all relative.

[Glenski]

People who have come from London and New York City have compared Tokyo fairly equivalently. I agree that the "study" was real science. To compare cities only on the basis of a few items popularly bought only by expatriates is a flawed approach.

Having lived in Tokyo, and having now lived in other parts of Japan for over 10 years, this is my opinion.
Expatriate items are more expensive than most other items.
Tokyo has a higher residence tax, I believe, than most other cities.
Parking is more expensive in the bigger cities.
National health insurance is based on your location, so that is probably also higher in the big cities.

These and other factors contribute to what the average person, not just expatriate, has to pay to live on.

1.5 million yen/month for an apartment. Gee, hard to say if that's tough on the chairman, JerseyBoy, since he doesn't pay for it himself! :) You can bet it's not a closet.

I heard that many foreign expatriates (e.g. financial institutions) live at VERY expensive apartment of million yen monthly rent in Azabu, Roppongi and Shibuya. You can bet those people get subsidized housing, though, and many perks that your average salariman or English teacher does not.

[otoko]

I lived most of my life in Manhattan so coming to Tokyo was not a big surprise.

Rent is not more expensive in Tokyo.

Groceries are more expensive in Tokyo, and Japan. Fruit and vegetables and beef. You also get less paying more.

Still this is relative. If you come from anyplace other than London, New York, Moscow I think you could say that Tokyo is expensive.

Another observation is pay. I have read the opinions that Japan pays well. I do not think they do. You would have to stay awhile. College graduates get very poor salaries for the first 5-10 years. Even if you graduate Tokyo University, even if you get a graduate degree from there you won't make much at a Japanese company compared to someone who has gotten the same education at an Ivy League and goes to work in a multinational or an American company. Even a graduate from a solid Ameircan University will get better than 22-25k than what many Japanese graduates get. Of course this is all from my experience and observations and is not scientific in any way.

[Chidoriashi]

Otoko> yes that is true that starting salaries may not be as good, but the overall income gap between drones, middle management and upper management is not nearly as high in Japan I believe. Plus you have to think about perks like bonuses, subsidized house, paying for travel expenses etc.. stuff that is not nearly as common in America (just comparing what i know) I think. Also it is not so uncommon (to my knowledge) for children to live at home into their thirties, so by the time they get married, or move out or whatever, their salary should be at a level where it can stand on its own. Most people in the US however, seem to wanna live on their own (or get kicked out) no later than 25...Just my opinion though.. no data on any of this.

[Glenski]

Even a graduate from a solid Ameircan[sic] University will get better than 22-25k than what many Japanese graduates get. Of course this is all from my experience and observations and is not scientific in any way.
And it doesn't even declare what majors or careers make that much money. Ahem.

[otoko]

And it doesn't even declare what majors or careers make that much money. Ahem.
By "it" do you mean me?

Do you mean I have not stated what careers or majors. Yes I have not. I stated this was in no way scientific. Simply empirical. My own personal experience.

If I must narrow it down, banking, finance. Usually these fields are near the top in compensation in any country. Japanese companies pay less. There is less of a gap between the top and bottom though.

Being around Japanese who work currently for some large Japanese corporations you would be surprised how little they make.
You can take this with a grain of salt because I was not trying to prove anything really, it was just an observation form my experience and it does not reflect all of Japan's industries.

For that we can just watch the news. With last years average graduate getting around 200,000 for a full time position. Because of the large number of those involved variation would be less. Since it is an average we can assume there are those making above and below that number. Still making below that is not very good at all.

Also the part about Tokyo University graduates with advanced degrees not making much, yes that was based off of personal experience. Not mine of course.

[Glenski]

Thank you for the clarification on what majors you were referring to, otoko. Narrow field, but thanks anyway.

Sorry about the "it" in my post. I was typing too fast and without morning caffeine.

[JerseyBoy]

Being around Japanese who work currently for some large Japanese corporations you would be surprised how little they make.
You can take this with a grain of salt because I was not trying to prove anything really, it was just an observation form my experience and it does not reflect all of Japan's industries.

I gotta agree with you on that. My own experience in Japan gave me an impression the local Japanese hires who do not have the international business experience and a good command of English are not earning that much.
Based on my past offers from Japanese companies and US- and EU-based companies, the offer salary is more than 50% to 100% difference in favor of the US- and EU-based companies in Japan.
It is said Japanese government and Japanese corporations make money at the expense of bourgeois. Also, pay scales by Japanese companies (not owned by the foreign companies) do not have a big spread.

[Yan]

I know that travelling in Japan is very expensive. But I'm a little bit surprised of those articles because many cities in the world are more expensive than Tokyo like Dubay.

[otoko]

Thank you for the clarification on what majors you were referring to, otoko. Narrow field, but thanks anyway.
Sorry about the "it" in my post. I was typing too fast and without morning caffeine.

No problem at all.