Japan as EU Member State

[European Union]

Greeting from the EU.


There has recently been an interesting discussion on an EU government sponsored forum. The forums debates will every month be summarized in report format and handed to the EU Parliament so that conclusions may be formed. This brings us to the fundemental question. How do the Japanese citizens feel about joining the EU as a Member State?


Please discuss on this thread and bring your ideas to the forum where this original discussion started. Do note that unfortunately the Europa Dialogue moderators cannot base a report on a discussion on this forum, it has to be on the Europa Dialogue forum. I also do not represent the EU or that said forum in any official capacity.


As I cannot post the link yet, please find the forum and discussion by yourself. The tag is "Europa Dialogue Japan for EU?" If someone could kindly later post the URL for anyone. Thank you!


Also, here are some of the argument for and against Japan joining the EU. Do note that all those arguments came only from the Europeans, since there isn't any Japanese on the forum. There is also a poll and it was in favour of Japan joining the EU. However, since there was an influx of Chinese people who have strongly voted No, the poll is no longer in favour of Japan joining the EU anymore.


-Japan is not part of the European continent.
-The EU has many Member States and territories who are not part of the European continet. Such as, Turkey (candidate), Cyprus, Cannary Islands and some South American and African territories.
-Japan would benefit from EU's defence policy, which is, an attack on one Member State constitutes an attack on all Member States.
-Japan's population is too large and this would mean that the Japanese would dominate the EU Parliament.
-Japanese culture is too different from European culture.
-European culture is a big mix already and adding Japanese culture, which by the way has embraced European culture already, won't do any harm.
-The Japanese share the EU's core believes and values, such as democracy, rule of law and human rights just to name a few.
-The EU and Japan would benefit from a very open market for goods, services and maybe people (there is an opt out available for people travelling freely).
-Japan should be able to join and any other nation else for that matter which satisfies the Copenhagen Criteria for EU Member State membership.
-The Japanese would never give up their Yen.
-The Japanese don't have to give up their Yen, just like how the UK didn't give up their Pound.


So, feel free to discuss here first and then contribute to the Europa Dialogue. The European Union citizens and Parliament are very keen to hear the Japanese view on this. Do note that Japan is the only country so far from the EU to be ever discussed with so much controversy and seriousness.


Have a good discussion everyone!:cool:

[JerseyBoy]

I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.

[Astroboy]

I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.

From Japanese perspective, Europe is too far - the other side of Eurasia Continent, and too different, Plus I'm sure that nobody Japanese think of EU ever.

On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.

I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. :relief:

I personally believe that Japan should continue to sit out from any of regional union as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.

[butakun]

Well, okay, they are both bureaucrats' heaven, yup.


On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.

In fact, there's only one country between EU and Japan. Russia.

as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.
LOL. Nothing serious, I just think this sounds very funny.

[Astroboy]

LOL. Nothing serious, I just think this sounds very funny.

Agree. Let's take it easy. :p

[zen777]

i don`t think that`s going to happen in the near future LOL

[JerseyBoy]

LOL. Nothing serious, I just think this sounds very funny.
I agree with you. I think that was funny English. That happens for non-native speakers.

[European Union]

I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.


You seem to be under the incorrect impression that all Europeans are the same. As a matter of fact the cultures of Europe are so diverse that you probably would need a couple of books to describe all of them. And Japanese business practices are unique, so are those of the Germans, English, Italians, Spanish and French. That's why the EU motto is "Unity in diversity". It is a common fallacy for people to think the EU has assimilated all people under one umbrela, in fact it never did such a thing. Have you ever seen any EU government websites? Most come in +20 languages, because almost every EU nation continues to use their language.


With your last sentence, that there are too many things that could go wrong, I agree. But so can just as many things go wrong flying in an airplane or driving a car. Does it stop you from driving a car or flying by plane? You just have to trust in your mechanic and pilot and the EU's mechanics and pilots are the world's best without a doubt. If anyone can pull it off, it's the EU leaders.

[European Union]

From Japanese perspective, Europe is too far - the other side of Eurasia Continent, and too different, Plus I'm sure that nobody Japanese think of EU ever.
On top of that, IF Japan becomes a member of EU, many countries between Japan and Europe will complain why we are eliminated.
I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. :relief:
I personally believe that Japan should continue to sit out from any of regional union as Japan does not share any value with rest of the world.



It's not quite correct to say "Japan is too different from the EU" since all EU members are different from each other, in some cases, totally different. And this is what makes the EU so strong, "Unity in diversity". We can all draw from our different strengths. For example, Germany is an economic powerhouse, small population but the biggest exporter in the world. UK have their maritime traditions, now they lead an EU armada to fight the pirates of the Gulf of Aden. This is just a small example of the EU.


There is a global fallacy to not think of the EU as a superpower or any sort of power. It's because the EU lacks a common political structure which the Treaty of Lisbon tried to introduce. So, it's not only the Japanese who don't think of the EU, but many people don't think of the EU and this is their mistake. The EU is the world's largest exporter and China's biggest market. The EU economy is already larger than America's and will be 6 trillion bigger in 2013. The EU military spending is over 300 billion USD and the EU started a sort of daughter project to create a common EU army known as the Eurokorps.


Those countries between the EU and Japan cannot join for a good reason. Most of them, including China, don't fulfill the EU criteria for joining, known as the Copenhagen criteria. There are strict guidelines for politics, democracy, rule of law, media freedoms and much more that must be accomplished before a country can join. China, Russia, Belarus and many more are not advanced enough or would need so many years of reforms that it is currently impossible to even consider them. And distance is not an issue in today's world. The EU has several territories in Africa, in South America and in the Carrabeans.


While Japan might want to sit out of any regional union, it is not a choice any longer. You probably know of Japan's attempt to form an alliance with Australia and India. It's for a good reason too right? Japan wouldn't just form a reason for fun. Joining the EU provides many benefits besides open markets. Japan will also be protected by the EU military defense pact provided by the Treaty of Lisbon. An attack on Japan would be considered an attack on the entire EU. So no more N. Korean, Chinese and Russian boogeyman to worry about.


Open Markets
Open market by EU standard means that the market of Japan would be intergrated with that of the EU. The Japanese people could share their fun, exciting and practical gadgets and technology with the whole of EU. Don't think of Japan part of EU, but as EU part of Japan. The Japanese market would in a single night jump to a 650 million people market. You could take your mobile phone to any country in the EU and call relatives and friends for the same price. Japanese fishing boats could fish anywhere within EU waters. If Russia some day fulfills and decides to join the EU, then Japanese people and companies would be able to visit the lost islands. Japanese companies could drill for oil & gas even without national restrictions. :-):cool:

[caster51]

While Japan might want to sit out of any regional union, it is not a choice any longer. You probably know of Japan's attempt to form an alliance with Australia and India. It's for a good reason too right? Japan wouldn't just form a reason for fun. Joining the EU provides many benefits besides open markets. Japan will also be protected by the EU military defense pact provided by the Treaty of Lisbon. An attack on Japan would be considered an attack on the entire EU. So no more N. Korean, Chinese and Russian boogeyman to worry about.

I think the reason is only that for Japan.
The United States strategy has already changed into the multipole principle(multipolarization )
China is a hegemonism....
Japan does not share any value in the neighboring, that is, korea and China
many ppls say " why does not Japan make friendly in the neighboring country?"
so, if there are some countries where Japan can not share national interest in neighbor, Japan must make some friends in far

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems
#23 in Thirty-Six_Stratagems
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%81%A0%E4%BA%A4%E8%BF%91%E6%94%BB

[European Union]

I think the reason is only that for Japan.
The United States strategy has already changed into the multipole principle(multipolarization )
China is a hegemonism....
Japan does not share any value in the neighboring, that is, korea and China
many ppls say " why does not Japan make friendly in the neighboring country?"
so, if there are some countries where Japan can not share national interest in neighbor, Japan must make some friends in far



In the current America-Japan relationship Japan just seems to be the junior partner, if one can even call Japan a partner in this current relationship. Japan must relly on America for defense from China, N. Korea and Russia, which is ridiculous considering Japan's economic power. Japan has the right to be an equal amongst other free nations and the obligation to make closer ties with her European partners. After all, the European ideals, believes and values are so similar, if not even identical, to those of Japan. Human rights, democracy, liberty, rule of law and these are just a few of the many.


The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.

[caster51]

The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.

it is a just Japan's restraint.
if Japan disucuss to make a A-bomd, it woud be a restraint.

[Astroboy]

In the current America-Japan relationship Japan just seems to be the junior partner, if one can even call Japan a partner in this current relationship. Japan must relly on America for defense from China, N. Korea and Russia, which is ridiculous considering Japan's economic power. Japan has the right to be an equal amongst other free nations and the obligation to make closer ties with her European partners. After all, the European ideals, believes and values are so similar, if not even identical, to those of Japan. Human rights, democracy, liberty, rule of law and these are just a few of the many.

Majority of Japanese don't care whether it's junior or senior. :blush:
As far as it's beneficial for Japan, all is fine. So if it's not, just Sayonara.
You better understand that the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty is not bilateral, meaning Japan is not obliged to help USA. In other words, Japan hires American mercenary troops on contract basis.

The differences between the EU Member States and Japan are only cultural and liguistic. Consider this, the EU has 27 Member States, +27 different cultures and +24 official languages. Japan wouldn't feel so out of place.

Well... culture & tradition is the most important. We are eating "Whale meat" and adopting "death penalty". So I must say "you better look for others instead of Japan". Or Would you like eat Whale meat ???:blush:

[European Union]

Majority of Japanese don't care whether it's junior or senior. :blush:
As far as it's beneficial for Japan, all is fine. So if it's not, just Sayonara.
You better understand that the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty is not bilateral, meaning Japan is not obliged to help USA. In other words, Japan hires American mercenary troops on contract basis.
Well... culture & tradition is the most important. We are eating "Whale meat" and adopting "death penalty". So I must say "you better look for others instead of Japan". Or Would you like eat Whale meat ???:blush:


America is obliged to help a number of countries when war starts. One of the countries was Georgia. The Japanese people are betting on America protecting Japan from China, North Korea and Russia for all eternity. Look at Australia now. Kevin Rudd has set his eyes on China and is now planning the future defense of Australia. He will spend up to 100 billion dollars to buy 2 aircraft carriers, an extra 100 joint strikers and 18 submarines. He is much further from China than you are, why is he so scared? Isn't Australia an ally of America? Doesn't Australia have an American military base too? Think about it.


About the whale meat comment. You seem to be under the misconception that the Europeans or I care what someone puts in their mouth. Europe is one of the first places on earth to tolerate gays, we are not going to care what the Japanese wish to put in their mouths. After all, several European countries have a tradition of eating whale meat. Those countries could join in hunting whales with you. Like I really care. And why do you think I have to eat whale meat if Japan joins the EU? Do the Japanese eat whale every day?


I think you should look at some more real opportunities for the EU and Japan. Look at the 650 million people market. Or the free labour movement policy. The mutual defense policy. There are many long term benefits to joining the EU.

[Yan]

Japan isn't an European country. Europeans have their own business and Japanese too. Therefore, Japanese are already ruled by US. Are they able to be independent from other countries and create their own economy?

PS: I don't have a lot of knowledge about that stuff.

[Astroboy]

I think you should look at some more real opportunities for the EU and Japan. Look at the 650 million people market. Or the free labour movement policy. The mutual defense policy. There are many long term benefits to joining the EU.

Instead of thinking about JAPAN, I suggest EU to consider Russia as Berlusconi says.

Russia should be allowed to join the European Union in the coming years, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said Wednesday. "I consider Russia to be a Western nation. So my project is that the Russian Federation should become a member of the EU in the coming years," Berlusconi told Italian reporters on the sidelines of an EU summit in Brussels. .....
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/237218,russia-should-join-eu-berlusconi-says.html

I repeat that Majority of Japanese NEVER think of EU. Speaking of EU, it is something about tourism, being the same as Tokyo Disneyland.

[Astroboy]

Tokyo Disneyland - an amusement park near Tokyo - a copy of US Disneyland, which copies European Castle.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Tokyocinderella.jpg

Tokyo Disney Sea - another amusement park next to Tokyo Disneyland - a copy of Southern Europe
http://www.themeparktravel.co.uk/Tokyo-257.jpg

Nagasaki Huis Ten Bosch - an amusement park in Kyushu - a copy of Dutch Town.
http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/t/m/p/tmphoto/hausutenbosu2s.jpg

So enough Europe in Japan.

[European Union]

Japan isn't an European country. Europeans have their own business and Japanese too. Therefore, Japanese are already ruled by US. Are they able to be independent from other countries and create their own economy?

PS: I don't have a lot of knowledge about that stuff.



You missed the original post and should read it again. It clearly mentions that there are many EU Member States who are not European countries or territories. Japan's case would be judged on 2 grounds. Either, part of the European continent or has enough European culture, values and believes. Each country would be judged on that.


You probably have not even heard of the new Mediterrenean Union. It was founded earlier this year. It is a new union between the EU and 17 African and Middle Eastern states. It includes heavyweights like Israel, Egypt, Syria, Lybia and many more. In the future the EU market will be over 750 people. However the Middle Eastern countries are complaining there are not enough Middle Eastern countries involved, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and as such. Therefore, they want to negotiate with the EU to include the other Maghreb countries. This might create a new union or free market of over 1 billion people.


I suggest you read up a little bit more on this. This is the future of the world.

[European Union]

Instead of thinking about JAPAN, I suggest EU to consider Russia as Berlusconi says.
I repeat that Majority of Japanese NEVER think of EU. Speaking of EU, it is something about tourism, being the same as Tokyo Disneyland.


Russia's Energy Control
You seem not to understand the fundemental difficulties of including Russia in the EU. Those are very big political and technica problems. First of all, Russia would have to permit all European oil and gas firms to operate on its soil. Russia did a good job this and last year kicking out all European firms that operated in Russia. You see, the Russians want to make a huge benefit by controlling a Central Asian energy monopoly. The EU and America knew this well and therefore they are competing for control over that region. Which brings us to the next point, the SCO.


SCO and Russia
The SCO was founded back in 2001. According to the founders, it was not as a military alliance aimed at anyone. This was likely a fible, since most analysts believed this was directly aimed at Nato. Europeans and Americans want greater access to Central Asia. However, Russia wants to control this as an excluse Russian area. The Chinese on the other hand are desperate for energy. Even though they are both members of SCO, they still compete over the resources. The Russians and Chinese conducted a joined military exercise last year coined "Peace Mission 2007". Now this new alliance has several observing countries, such as India and Iran. Some day maybe even North Korea. Iran has already applied for membership of this alliance back in 24th March, 2008. India is also likely to request membership sometime in the near future, because old foe Pakistan is also interested in membership. Where would this leave Japan?


Russia for EU?
Would Russia give up its lucrative energy monopoly over Central Asia? NO! Would Russia disolve the SCO alliance for the sake of the EU? NO! Would Russian ultra-nationalists listen to the European Parliament based in Brussels? NO! Therefore, it would be difficult to include Russia in the EU, due to these reasons. They would have to change first if Russia was to join. However, many predict that the powerful EU will subdue Russia in the long run.


Where does this leave Japan?
Japan will be left between a rock and a hard place. SCO is not just a military alliance between some of the least democratic fascist states on the planet, but it is also becoming something similar to the EU. They have an increased focus on trade, culture, commerce and the like. And the only ally Japan has is America, a country which was unwilling to come to the aid of another ally, Georgia. Would Americans really risk their necks fighting, Russia, China, Iran and India over Japan? What would happen to Japan's soft power when SCO's soft and hard powers start to get more active than they already are? Think about it carefully. The world is not as peaceful as you wish it to be. We Europeans know this better than anyone else.

[European Union]

I should also quite carefull state that a lot of what the EU does is done sort of quietly. For example, did you know that just a while ago a common European army was created? They existed for a while and were known as the Eurocorps. Made up of many different European countries, including Turkey. However, what has made it a real European army is the fact that the EU Parliament has voted on this earlier, to put this army under direct EU Parliament control. So far there are 60,000 soldiers, with 1,000 stationed in Strausbourg. They are also active in combat, but still in very small units. For example, 450 are currently in Afghanistan, but I am sure you never heard of them.


The reason why so many things about the European Union is unknown is to 1 important fact. The EU does not want you to know. One of the founding fathers of the EU, more than 40 years ago said, Everything that the EU does must be done in secret and quiet. Plans should never be revealed until it is too late. Some things are of course done in public. However, the media and publicity is kept low key as to avoid damaging the EU. This is in accordance with the EU strategy. Do everything in the ignorance of the others. When they found out, it is already too late. So you better study up on the EU. It has already enough power to be called a superpower, but it is reluctant to admit or display it. You will know this once it is too late to do anything against it.

[Adulado]

Are these unions the New World Order under guise?

[Adulado]

Modern Babel Tower:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3451/20071017050226jpgjy4.png (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20071017050226jpgjy4.png)
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/20071017050226jpgjy4.png/1/w376.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img187/20071017050226jpgjy4.png/1/)

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4577/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif)
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif/1/w390.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif/1/)

[Yan]

What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.

[European Union]

Are these unions the New World Order under guise?



The EU is a new world order under guise, that's absolutely correct. There is only 1 reason why. People fear what they don't understand. The truth is that the majority of human beings, perhaps 95-98% don't understand politics, laws and much more about this world. People simply don't take the time to learn about these issues. So to suddenly find out something new about the EU might be a big shock to many people. Such as the creation of a common EU army. That's why the EU founding fathers said that everything the EU does must be done in secret or quietly enough as to not to alarm the people. You could say that human beings are simply scared by change.

[European Union]

What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.



The goal of the EU are many. One is continous enlargement with countries that share the same believes and values of the EU, such as democracy, peace, stability, good governance, the rule of law and human rights. There are many countries near the EU that don't share these values. Those countries fall under the European Union Neighbourhood Policy. This policy is designed to develop those countries to be in line with the EU's policies, such as democracy. But they are also intended to develop those countries through infrastructure projects. The EU intends to invest a lot of money to connect Africa and Europe by a bridge or tunnel and eventual build renewable energy plants there to supply those countries and the EU with clean power. Eventually those countries will join the EU.


In short, the EU is a new Empire. It is a European Empire or World Empire. One of the most important European politicians compared the EU to an Empire, but this empire is voluntary and democratic. In other words, no one is forced to join the EU. People are given the chance to join, with a promise of better cooperation and benefit for all citizens. The benefits include the world's best governance, the world's best police force, the world's best laws and a huge efficient and modern market. In other words, if a country wants to join the EU, it must fulfill the Copenhagen Criteria, which is in line with democracy, good governance, human rights, rule of law and much more. All is strictly voluntary.


EU Presidency
The current President of the EU is Mr. Sarkozy from France. His term runs out on midnight of December 31st. The Treaty of Lisbon was supposed to take effect on January 1st. This would mean the EU citizens would vote for an EU President, who's term would be of 2 and 1/2 years. Currently the term is just 6 months and it rotates from EU country to EU country. The Treaty of Lisbon must be ratified by all 27 Member States. However, Ireland rejected it in a public referendum. Majority of the Irish people who rejected it did so on pure ignorance. Most did not know what the Treaty of Lisbon is. Most never even read it or bothered to search it on the internet. Most new as much about the Treaty of Lisbon as you probably due. They rejected it out of fear and ignorance. This is what the EU founding fathers stated. "Everything about the EU must be done in secrecy."

[European Union]

What is the goal of the EU? Is it to become more powerful than US (and it is already the case)? The actual president of EU is Nicolas Sarkozy and this Union has a big power, that's all I actually know about EU.


If you want to know more about the EU you can start here.

The official European Union Government Youtube channel:
http://de.youtube.com/user/eutube

And some informational clip about the EU:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=amRzRnuX7fo

[Adulado]

The EU is a new world order under guise, that's absolutely correct. There is only 1 reason why. People fear what they don't understand. The truth is that the majority of human beings, perhaps 95-98% don't understand politics, laws and much more about this world. People simply don't take the time to learn about these issues. So to suddenly find out something new about the EU might be a big shock to many people. Such as the creation of a common EU army. That's why the EU founding fathers said that everything the EU does must be done in secret or quietly enough as to not to alarm the people. You could say that human beings are simply scared by change.

The poster I showed is the official poster that was banned because of public protest, doesn't it hint you something like a kingdom that defies God?

"Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

Daniel 2:41~43


I think EU is the kingdom of iron and clay.

[Clawn]

To be perfectly honest, I do not know of, and have not been able to find, members of the European Union who are not a part of or connected to the European continent.

However, on the matter of Japan's entry into the European Union: I find it rather odd seeing as Japan never existed as a colony or became part of a European nation. I just think it's rather silly-akin to the United States offering state-hood to New Zealand. Now I'm not saying the advantages of inclusion in such a group are something to be thrown away as trivial, but I simply feel that they are being presented under a name that would imply a relationship that simply does not exist at this time.

However the simple fact that membership implies a European background makes it hard to imagine Japan as a member. In terms of relations to Europe, perhaps former colonies, like those nice chaps over in the Americas, should be considered first? What I could see is an Oceanic Union, in which members must simply be bordering a major body of water, or perhaps an Alliance of Democratic Capitalist Powers. :wave:

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Back to the first question, will Japan ever become a member of the European Union?

No, never. This part of the world is not rich of oil wells.

Most European members think that the Europe Union must not take on new members for a while. We first have to learn to get on with the members we have already. East Europe is already very different from West Europe. This Continent so destroyed by centuries of wars among themselves, is now on the right way to try to become united. From the quick tempered Greeks up to the calm tempered Swedes, we still have to learn a lot from each other.

I wish you all a great 2009!!

[Astroboy]

Back to the first question, will Japan ever become a member of the European Union?
No, never. This part of the world is not rich of oil wells.
Most European members think that the Europe Union must not take on new members for a while. We first have to learn to get on with the members we have already. East Europe is already very different from West Europe. This Continent so destroyed by centuries of wars among themselves, is now on the right way to try to become united. From the quick tempered Greeks up to the calm tempered Swedes, we still have to learn a lot from each other.
I wish you all a great 2009!!

YES. I agree. EU better stay in so-called Europe.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year. :wave:

[Astroboy]

Modern Babel Tower:
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3451/20071017050226jpgjy4.png (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20071017050226jpgjy4.png)
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/20071017050226jpgjy4.png/1/w376.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img187/20071017050226jpgjy4.png/1/)
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4577/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif)
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif/1/w390.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/eustrasbourgbabelur4.gif/1/)

Report reveals pension schemes will collapse

It is claimed tens of thousands of workers could have their pensions wiped out over the next six months.

A confidential memo to Government from the Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin reveals a total pension deficit of between €20 and €30 billion is expected.

This confidential document, seen by a Sunday newspaper, spells out in no uncertain terms that a number of high profile pension schemes are expected to collapse.

That is three times the level of capital needed to bail out Irish banks.

There are currently around 100,000 schemes in Ireland - two thirds of which are defined benefit ones, where the employer bears the investment risk.

More than 90 per cent of these are expected to report a deficit to the Pensions Board.

The memo predicts the public collapse of a number of schemes over the next six months and warns that it would be impossible for the Government to pick up the shortfall because of budgetary constraints - no matter how strong the pressure might be.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/report-reveals-pension-schemes-will-collapse-1558496.html

I assume that concerns over pension schemes have been spreading across EU as EU member countries face the same financial difficulty as Ireland. However, EU government cannot adopt turnkey solution being valid for all member countries because all EU members hold different troubles from others.

I suggest EU government to dissolve "EU" & "Euro" in order to let member countries tackle their own troubles country-by-country basis. :wave:

[CIGARMANIAC]

-The EU has many Member States and territories who are not part of the European continet. Such as, Turkey (candidate), Cyprus, Cannary Islands and some South American and African territories.
-The Japanese share the EU's core believes and values, such as democracy, rule of law and human rights just to name a few.
-The European Union citizens and Parliament are very keen to hear the Japanese view on this.
==========

Your information is absolutely correct - and Iceland is a member of the
African Union, Botswana is a charter member of MERCOSUR ( a South American trading bloc) and North Korea is a valued member of NATO. France is also applying to join the Commonwealth and the Vatican is on the threshold of joining the Muslim League.

Japanese democracy? Of course! Japan has a thousand year-old democratic republican tradition of egalitarian peasant rule!

EURO citizens have a great interest in Japan joining a EUROPEAN body. I understand there will be a referendum in every EU country about this and huge demonstrations, both pro and con, are taking place at this very moment.



I suggest "European Union" to consider China for new EU member as an alternative idea instead of Japan. :relief:


Yes, indeed. China, an emerging superpower, will gladly join a geographically distant bloc of rivals in order to meekly submit to Western Hegemony.

Thanks for pointing all this out!

[European Union]

YES. I agree. EU better stay in so-called Europe.
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year. :wave:




Just for the record. I understand many people have no idea about the EU, but ANY European politician will tell you that the EU's best and strongest foreign policy is enlargement. The EU Neighborhood Policy is about bringing states in line with European standards for eventually joining up with the EU. Look at the Mediterranean Union, a new union created by the EU. It incorporates the EU 27 Member States and 17 African and Middle Easters states. Is this the EU staying in the EU? No! This is the EU expanding across the whole world.


And the Treaty of Lisbon is just a power grab by the bigger countries. It is not totally necessary, but it does not matter to me. I am from one of those bigger countries, so the EU could enlarge even without the Treaty of Lisbon.

[European Union]

I assume that concerns over pension schemes have been spreading across EU as EU member countries face the same financial difficulty as Ireland. However, EU government cannot adopt turnkey solution being valid for all member countries because all EU members hold different troubles from others.
I suggest EU government to dissolve "EU" & "Euro" in order to let member countries tackle their own troubles country-by-country basis. :wave:


To be correct, the Irish love the EU. They have enjoyed huge benefit from joining the EU. Much if not all their economic growth is because of them joining the EU. If the EU and euro was dissolved as you simply and without explanation stated, Ireland would not enjoy the huge economic benefits from before. Do you know what Ireland's nickname was since it joined the EU? The Celtic Tiger, because of the incredible wealth the people amassed since joining the EU. Why did they join? Ireland, country of 5 million people suddenly had free and complete access to a market of 500 million people. This is why I suggested Japan to join, to bolster Japan's ailing and weak economy.


To be honest, the EU will continue to enlarge with countries who want to join. The euro is the currency of the EU and always will be, as it is enshrined in the Treaty of Lisbon. All the EU countries will have the same economic model, also enshrined in the Treaty of Lisbon. To think that the EU will stay confined to just Europe is also based either on no historic truths or on little factual knowledge of EU politics and ideals.

[rihoko]

Nah. I believe the existing relationship between Japan and EU is already adequate.
Most likely, Japan would very much prefer to remain as a unique entity from EU, as EU's policies are considered intrusive for Asian standards. Besides, as much as one can delude himself, there are little to no cultural and social similarities between Japanese and Europeans.

Perhaps, what you're thinking is to strengthen NATO-Japan ties for security purposes. Although this was in discussion, I would advise Japan to tread carefully and not to anger its neighbors.

Japan's not at Israel's level and does not need to make unnecessary moves to put itself in that position.

[European Union]

Nah. I believe the existing relationship between Japan and EU is already adequate.
Most likely, Japan would very much prefer to remain as a unique entity from EU, as EU's policies are considered intrusive for Asian standards. Besides, as much as one can delude himself, there are little to no cultural and social similarities between Japanese and Europeans.
Perhaps, what you're thinking is to strengthen NATO-Japan ties for security purposes. Although this was in discussion, I would advise Japan to tread carefully and not to anger its neighbors.
Japan's not at Israel's level and does not need to make unnecessary moves to put itself in that position.



Japan follows the German Parliamentary system. The Japanese laws are a mixture of European continental civil law and British common law. And the Japanese people have already given up their way of conducting and managing corporations. Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality. Japan is more like the west than the east. If Japan followed traditional Asian ideals, then Japan would now be a hardcore dictatorship, isolating itself from the rest of the world and conducting business like the old emperors. But even now the Japanese emperor is wearing a western style suit. Occasionally they might wear Japanese traditional clothing, but we in Europe also have such ridiculously outdated and fancy clothing that we wear once every year to celebrate our different histories and cultures.


NATO might be a choice for Japan. However, it won't solve Japanese economic problems. The EU has far more at its disposal than NATO does. The EU has also joined under a new name with 17 African and Middle Eastern countries. Those countries are not as westernized as Japan or modern. Why would Japan be less suitable? At least 11 EU Member States were formerly communist, even they are more different from western standards than Japan is. Think about it and it will make sense.

[JerseyBoy]

Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality.
There are still many local Japanese companies that keep the seniority model and the Japanese society as a whole leans toward conformism. This is based on my own experience; so your mileage may vary.

PS. There is no way Japan will join EU (or EU let Japan joint the union). I just cannot imagine how Japanese be part of the multicultural political and economic union as they are not comfortable with foreigners. Also, I don't see EU wants Japan as its member (I just don't see how EU can invite an Asian race on mass to the European countries).

[CIGARMANIAC]

Japan follows the German Parliamentary system. The Japanese laws are a mixture of European continental civil law and British common law. And the Japanese people have already given up their way of conducting and managing corporations. Japanese corporations used to be managed in the hierarchy of seniority, now it is all meritocracy. Japanese people have embraced individuality. Japan is more like the west than the east. If Japan followed traditional Asian ideals, then Japan would now be a hardcore dictatorship, isolating itself from the rest of the world and conducting business like the old emperors. But even now the Japanese emperor is wearing a western style suit. Occasionally they might wear Japanese traditional clothing, but we in Europe also have such ridiculously outdated and fancy clothing that we wear once every year to celebrate our different histories and cultures.
NATO might be a choice for Japan. However, it won't solve Japanese economic problems. The EU has far more at its disposal than NATO does. The EU has also joined under a new name with 17 African and Middle Eastern countries. Those countries are not as westernized as Japan or modern. Why would Japan be less suitable? At least 11 EU Member States were formerly communist, even they are more different from western standards than Japan is. Think about it and it will make sense.

It makes no sense whatsoever. There is absolutely no talk anywhere of Japan joining the EU. Please verify the facts, people.

Japan has NOT embraced individuality. What an odd suggestion!

[bruno]

Strange visions! Far away from reality!

[European Union]

Strange visions! Far away from reality!




All visions start far from reality. The vision to fly or the vision to land on the moon is just an example, far more rediculous than that of Japan to join the EU. Bruno and Jerseyboy, think about this. The EU has already united with 17 countries from Africa and Asia. It's called the Mediterrenean Union. So, the whole argument based on saying that EU is European and Japan is Asian and therefore cannot unite is not a very good one.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Union_for_the_Med.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Union

The Arabic members of the union are arguing to include the rest of the Arab countries or to be precise, the entire Arabian Gulf. This would put a major global supply of oil in the hands of the greater union, may you call it European Union or Mediterrenean Union or even a new name in 50 years time.

Japan's economy is suffering worse than America's and no recovery in sight. What do the brilliant minds at the economist suggest? More easier access to labor movements and immigration. The EU is the most logical joice. A huge market, 500 million people, 800 million people if you consider the new Union for the Mediterrenean and close to 1 billion if you also include Japan. The EU has a highly educated population that Japan could draw from and a very sophesticated market which would become a part of Japan.

http://www.economist.com/search/search.cfm?rv=2&qr=japan&area=1&x=18&y=9


Please don't just say "Japan is Asian, so it won't work" or "Japan is different" when there already is an precedent to include Islamic African and Asian countries. Also, the EU's motto is "Unity in diversity". Of course the EU has its little group of right radicals and xenophobes who still live in the 16th century and see Turkey as the Ottoman Empire, but those people are in the minority.

[Adulado]

Who is behind the current crisis are international bankers who control central banks in Europe and own the American Federal Reserve and seek to control the world through organizations like UN, Council on Foreign Relations, Nato that masquerade themselves of having good purpose but actually are trying to unify the world under one world government and those crooked leaders, politicians, bankers are Satan worshipers who belong to secret societies like Freemasonry and Illuminati. Very known members are the British Royal Family, who are Freemasons (which is why I believe there are a lot of cctv cameras and biometric identification system is already adopted there) the Bush family, who belong to the Skull & Bones, a secret society related to the Illuminati. 9/11 was an inside job and attack on Iraq, Afghanistan was based on pagan beliefs. Just look at Washington D.C, there are a lot of Masonic symbols: streets in front of the White House forming an inverted Pentagram which represents Baphomet (try Google Earth), a satanic symbol; The Pentagon (center of a pentagram is a pentagon); Washington Monument that has 555 feet but below ground base has 111 feet (555+111=666), also 555 feet is 666 inches; the pyramid with the all seeing eye on the one dollar bill and many others. And Look at the poster I showed, there are a lot of pentagrams above the Babel Tower. The building below is EU's headquarter in Strasbourg.

[CIGARMANIAC]

Conspiracy theories are ludicrous. Forget about the "Illuminati", "Satan" and other secret societies. There are no "master manipulators". GROW UP!

The Med. Union is in its infancy. It is NOT a Union of the EU with certain N. African and Near Eastern countries. It is a loose link of the EU with non-EU states that will attempt to develop common policies in areas of mutual interest, a sort of conference that meets from time to time to solve common problems. There are plenty of such regional blocs of co-operating nation-states.

Wikipedia is a POOR source of information.

Why are you so hung up about the EU? Nation-states are always joining and re-joining and splitting up into groups, blocs, alliances, etc.

EUROPEAN UNION: Please name the African and South American members of the EU. (Colonies such as Ceuta and Mellila and overseas territories such as French Guyana don't count).

[European Union]

Conspiracy theories are ludicrous. Forget about the "Illuminati", "Satan" and other secret societies. There are no "master manipulators". GROW UP!
The Med. Union is in its infancy. It is NOT a Union of the EU with certain N. African and Near Eastern countries. It is a loose link of the EU with non-EU states that will attempt to develop common policies in areas of mutual interest, a sort of conference that meets from time to time to solve common problems. There are plenty of such regional blocs of co-operating nation-states.
Wikipedia is a POOR source of information.
Why are you so hung up about the EU? Nation-states are always joining and re-joining and splitting up into groups, blocs, alliances, etc.
EUROPEAN UNION: Please name the African and South American members of the EU. (Colonies such as Ceuta and Mellila and overseas territories such as French Guyana don't count).


I posted the wiki link so people can read about it before they comment. Wiki is always a good place to begin, unless you can perhaps suggest a better free source that everyone can access? Also, don't dismiss information just because it's from wiki. To do that is a fallacy.


The EU has no Member States in Africa or South America. Where are you getting that nonsensical information from?


Union of the Mediterranean
As for the Union of the Mediterranean, president of France and current EU president, Sarkozy, said during a speech that the people of the Mediterranean should come together and do the same that the people from the EU did. If you recollect European history, the idea of an European Union was talked about more than 50 years ago. The Steel and Coal Community was just a small step, or as you called it, "infancy". The idea of a Mediterranean Union is also not new, it was discussed long before even you were born. Back then it was called Eurabia. Now it is called something entirely different.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Union_for_the_Med.png


The same month Sarkozy also succeeded in organizing the founding conference of the Union for the Mediterranean, a loose affiliation of Mediterranean countries that Sarkozy had long favored.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701879302/sarkozy_nicolas.html

[rihoko]

well trying to see things from a different angle.. chirac was quite a japanophile.. and sarkozy's unique thinking should leave a print in EU's mentality even after his chair.. so on the EU side of things, they might accept Japan.. Japanese looks down on its Asian neighbors like how Gandalf looks down on Frodo.. so maybe if Japan will ever join some kind of union (can't call it regional grouping in this case I guess), either from uncertainties about its security or economy. maybe it would choose EU... unless it wants to continue its vague relationship with Sugar Papa US.

But then, I don't think China would just sit around and do nothing if Japan chooses to join EU. There would be implications. I sure wouldn't want China to be aiming its MRBMs at my anime studios... I'm dead sure that's where they'd attack first.

So, say Japan gets on really bad terms with its neighbors for joining EU, how would EU protect Japan from an impending attack or a trade embargo by regional countries? Remember that Japan isn't Israel, morality-current conflicts aside, looking from just strategic/military point of view, Israel is an A+ success being handcuffed by international pressure... Japan after WWII, is a D with minimal combat experience, constantly pressured to be more proactive than sending naval supports + aids in the international peacekeeping effort.

[European Union]

well trying to see things from a different angle.. chirac was quite a japanophile.. and sarkozy's unique thinking should leave a print in EU's mentality even after his chair.. so on the EU side of things, they might accept Japan.. Japanese looks down on its Asian neighbors like how Gandalf looks down on Frodo.. so maybe if Japan will ever join some kind of union (can't call it regional grouping in this case I guess), either from uncertainties about its security or economy. maybe it would choose EU... unless it wants to continue its vague relationship with Sugar Papa US.

But then, I don't think China would just sit around and do nothing if Japan chooses to join EU. There would be implications. I sure wouldn't want China to be aiming its MRBMs at my anime studios... I'm dead sure that's where they'd attack first.

So, say Japan gets on really bad terms with its neighbors for joining EU, how would EU protect Japan from an impending attack or a trade embargo by regional countries? Remember that Japan isn't Israel, morality-current conflicts aside, looking from just strategic/military point of view, Israel is an A+ success being handcuffed by international pressure... Japan after WWII, is a D with minimal combat experience, constantly pressured to be more proactive than sending naval supports + aids in the international peacekeeping effort.


Mademoiselle, if indeed you are a mademoiselle, I am applauding you for your vision and your honest opinions. You are right, Russia and China would be well worried if Japan joined the EU. However, the EU is a non military alliance, it is an economic and political union for the better of mankind, whether European or Asian. However, if China does intend to aim anything at Japan, it will be so at the cost of the Treaty of Lisbon, common defense policy. One attack on a Member States includes an attack on all Member states. To attack Japan is to attack the rest of Europe. This is the power of the Treaty of Lisbon.


Another perhaps positive aspect of the Treaty of Lisbon is the common foreign affairs representative. Currently there are over 5000 European embassies, after the Treaty of Lisbon, there will be less than 200. This will strengthen the EU and Japan, if Japan indeed becomes a member. One politician will represent the whole union, with a common voice. Who shall dare to challenge an economy larger than that of the USA? Currently, the EU is the largest trade partner of China. America is number two. Japan as part of the EU, will have huge powers within Asia. Russia or China would not dare fart without consequences. I would even support Singapore and Australia joining the EU if those 2 countries could fit the Copenhagen criteria of democracy, rule of law and much more. I believe, this is my personal opinion, the EU should not discriminate based on ethnicity. How do you feel about that?

[Dogen Z]

I think you're forgetting a key factor that makes the EU an effective entity, contiguous borders/similar time zones. But if that's not a problem, you should try getting the U.S. to join the E.U., Japan will then follow.

[European Union]

I think you're forgetting a key factor that makes the EU an effective entity, contiguous borders/similar time zones. But if that's not a problem, you should try getting the U.S. to join the E.U., Japan will then follow.



There would be a problem of USA joining the EU, far bigger than that of Japan joining the EU. The USA and EU people are totally different. EU prefers non military diplomacy, soft power and the rule of law. America prefers something entirely different. Consider this, EU's nominal GDP is 22% larger than that of America, in other words, the economy of the EU is 1/4 bigger than that of the USA. However, USA military spending is over 460 billion. While EU combined spending is 300 billion. Most EU state guarantee Universal Healthcare and Education, but America guarantees the right to own a gun. Japan is more alike to the EU than America. Japanese and EU people like peace and stability, following innovation and commerce. This is our combined character.


Superpower, ey?
However, don't think America is the only Superpower. The EU is already a Superpower, just it is not talked about much, because they prefer a low profile. It's not what I am saying, but other academics said this and at worst it is described as emerging Superpower. The EU has a wide global reach with its economy, the EU is the number 1 exporter in the world, Germany alone is the world's biggest exporter. The EU receives 50% of all global tourism and the EU also is the world's largest economy. Do note the EU military spending is 300 billion, it could be much larger if the EU intended to. But in today's world it is more important to control the means of production, not the means of destruction. And the EU is definitely not interested in destruction, because this is the reason why it was created in the first place, to bring peace to the European continent.

[Dogen Z]

Glossing over my important point and going after the glib remark, huh. Well, then...

Thank you for the invitation but I'm afraid Japan has not given up on its plan for a Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. This time with much more collaboration with the other countries involved. Just imagine an economic entity including Japan, China (+Hong Kong), South Korea, Taiwan, India, Singapore, Vietnam and others. The growth rate would be staggering and dwarf anything the EU could produce! Once we get it going, you'll be consulted as to how you can play a productive role in this new world order. :p

[European Union]

Glossing over my important point and going after the glib remark, huh. Well, then...
Thank you for the invitation but I'm afraid Japan has not given up on its plan for a Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. This time with much more collaboration with the other countries involved. Just imagine an economic entity including Japan, China (+Hong Kong), South Korea, Taiwan, India, Singapore, Vietnam and others. The growth rate would be staggering and dwarf anything the EU could produce! Once we get it going, you'll be consulted as to how you can play a productive role in this new world order. :p



Sure, but what are you talking about? You mention some Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. That is a concept from the Showa era. It created anti-Western feelings in Asia and was Japanese imperial propaganda. The only purpose of it was to promote Japan's interests under the guise of East Asian co-operation between Japan, China and the Manchu. Any union between Japan and China will be only if Japan is a subordinate or junior partner. You can be China's junior partner if that is what you wish for Japan or you can be an equal partner within the EU (or any new name this will evolve to).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere


On the other hand, the EU is an existing concept and an ever evolving one. The greater academics of the EU want all of the world's people to benefit from this, but there are some bigots and racists who only want to include their own race. This is not unique to Europeans, but certainly also Asians as can be ascertained.

[Dogen Z]

I only mentioned the Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere in jest, since I think your idea is just as funny. :blush:

But the point is economic development must take place regionally, just as it did for the EU--there are regional problems that countries elsewhere do not understand and cannot help. There are huge problems among Japan, China, and Korea and these must worked out among the three because they can't be ignored. However, some start has already begun with a historic meeting with heads of state from the three in Japan late last year. From there, some common groundwork can be established for long term future development in the region. :-)

[European Union]

I only mentioned the Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere in jest, since I think your idea is just as funny. :blush:
But the point is economic development must take place regionally, just as it did for the EU--there are regional problems that countries elsewhere do not understand and cannot help. There are huge problems among Japan, China, and Korea and these must worked out among the three because they can't be ignored. However, some start has already begun with a historic meeting with heads of state from the three in Japan late last year. From there, some common groundwork can be established for long term future development in the region. :-)



There was no indication or hint that you were kidding. Perhaps you were serious and just didn't know Japanese or Asian situation very well. As for the EU, you also and many others seem not to know it well. The most powerful foreign policy the EU has is ENLARGEMENT. You can go read up a bit about the EU and you will see that it aims to be a group of countries without being limited to Europe.


As for your poor joke, it wasn't very funny. Just a sad reminder of Japan's failed evil imperialism. The world belongs to those who have rejected such propaganda and evil intents, but are focused on peaceful cooperation and development of nations for the good of humankind.

[Dogen Z]

lol. I'm the one who brought it up and even underlined it to get your attention and you're the one who had to look it up in wikipedia...then you go making a foolish assumption. Well, duh. Anyone with even a little knowledge of Asian history knows about it.

Anyway, you don't pay attention and you don't know enough about economics, so there's no basis for discussion.

Live long and prosper. Sayonara.

[caster51]

The most powerful foreign policy the EU has is ENLARGEMENT. You can go read up a bit about the EU and you will see that it aims to be a group of countries without being limited to Europe.

it looks like another strange imperialism
EU has an ambition becoming the economic power in the age that United States declines?
When I compare EU with the United States, EU is worse.
there is no identity oF EU
There is no federal government.....

Anyway
If Japan learns from the history of Europe...
Japan should not go deep into...

[Astroboy]

As for your poor joke, it wasn't very funny. Just a sad reminder of Japan's failed evil imperialism. The world belongs to those who have rejected such propaganda and evil intents, but are focused on peaceful cooperation and development of nations for the good of humankind.

Instead of thinking of JAPAN, I suggest you to think of Europe, which is freezing as Russia stopped its Gas supply.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45351000/jpg/_45351367_-18.jpg
Firewood sellers in Sofia are preparing for greater demand :blush:

GOOD LUCK from Tokyo, being relatively warm today!

[JerseyBoy]

Instead of thinking of JAPAN, I suggest you to think of Europe, which is freezing as Russia stopped its Gas supply.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45351000/jpg/_45351367_-18.jpg
Firewood sellers in Sofia are preparing for greater demand :blush:
GOOD LUCK from Tokyo, being relatively warm today!
This thread is turning into the ad hominem discussion....:p
Only part of Europe is affected by the gas dispute between Russia and Ukraine. Most of the EU members countries have some stock piles of gas for their immediate needs.

[Astroboy]

http://www.terradaily.com/images/eo-europe-envisat-snow-bg.jpg

But Europe looks really freezing... :souka:

A cold wave claimed seven more lives in Poland and one casualty in Belgium as temperatures across Europe plunged below freezing overnight in what weather officials Wednesday dubbed the coldest night of winter.
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Eight_freeze_to_death_in_Europes_coldest_winter_ni ght_999.html

Russian gas supply stopped only at Poland and Beligium ?

[JerseyBoy]

http://www.terradaily.com/images/eo-europe-envisat-snow-bg.jpg
But Europe looks really freezing... :souka:
A cold wave claimed seven more lives in Poland and one casualty in Belgium as temperatures across Europe plunged below freezing overnight in what weather officials Wednesday dubbed the coldest night of winter.
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Eight_freeze_to_death_in_Europes_coldest_winter_ni ght_999.html
Russian gas supply stopped only at Poland and Beligium ?
God, just read the news... Western European countries are not affected with this gas dispute. Also, the weather is nothing to do with this thread, isn't it?

[Astroboy]

God, just read the news... Western European countries are not affected with this gas dispute. Also, the weather is nothing to do with this thread, isn't it?

True. :relief:

But European Union said "Japan as EU Member State?"

But Europe looks very freezing, which I don't like !

[Mycernius]

Astroboy, you have been asked to keep on topic by another member. I am now telling you to keep on topic.

[Chris K]

Europe is one of the first places on earth to tolerate gays, we are not going to care what the Japanese wish to put in their mouths. .
sorry to be so childish, but those two sentences together made me smirk a bit.
Getting back to being a grown up I have to disagree with a lot of posts citing Japanese culture being too far removed from Europe. Historically maybe, but from what I've seen of modern Japan it sits in very nicely with Europe, in fact it could well be a 'flagship' state. I think a lot of ideals about european living exist in Japan. I truly felt quite at home in Japan and didn't notice any real disparity between everyday Japanese life and European life.
I know the Japanese business model of the large cartels does rile western business but I have heard western enterprises are now beginning to emulate it.

[3aw]

I just doubt Japan will ever join EU. There are so many differences between Japanese and EU business and cultural practices. If Japan is going to join EU, then, I might stay in Japan (so that I can get a free access to EU). There are simply too many things which go wrong with this whole concept.

[admkenshin]

Well, this is all an academic discussion at the moment, since the EU is primarily about a free market environment (bye bye Japanese rice production = nationwide starvation in case the supply lines are cut), and the last thing Japan needs now is a market economy.

But, if it did happen, my spontaneous thoughts are these:
1) Japan is more liberal than the EU, and thus may be able to curb the neo-moralism that is gaining ground in some nations like Sweden.
2) OTOH, Japan might be affected negatively by the EU instead.

Closer cooperation would certainly be good though.

Also, the EU currently doesn't satisfy the Copenhagen protocol, as it is not a democracy. In my eyes, the EU has been hijacked by politicians who are tired of requiring the voters consent for every little thing. Instead, laws are passed by the minister council (I know they have to be approved by the EU Parliament, but most times this is avoided as they are sent to the wrong section to vote on. For example the agriculture section voting on immaterial rights law).

Corruption in Japan is already wide-spread, there is no reason to make it worse by joining the EU.

Also, while the EU might have been the first to tolerate homosexuals, most of the rest of the world never banned it to start with. It was certainly never classified as a disease in Japan.

Culturally, while Greece and Sweden for example, might be far apart, Japan is in another dimension. There are differences in basic world view, and not just superficial things.

[Smoky89]

I don't belive that will ever happen... but who knows :P

[ArmandV]

Japan would become the 51st state in the USA before that ever happens.