Teaching in coffeeshops - level of Japanese needed?

[the mighty quinn]

Hi

So, I've been teaching English in Japan for 4 months now. Although I'm happy with my job, the town I'm teaching in is very small, and I want to move to a city.

Here, I would like to teach privately, in coffee shops (maybe working for a company for a couple of days a week). But my Japanese isn't great... not really good enough for arranging to meet people for lessons, and other practicalities.

Is there any way of getting round this, that anyone knows about? Apart from studying more, of course... :P

[nice gaijin]

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/work/esl/bestwebsites.shtml

there are online craigslist-style message boards to hook up freelance teachers with students, there might be some in that list, or others like it. Try a search.

[the mighty quinn]

Aha... yes i think i have seen this, or something like it, before. But I totally forgot it existed. Thanks!!


:D

[Glenski]

How can you work for a company for just a few days a week? Money issues aside (and you will NOT make enough from privates early in your career), you have to have an employer sponsor a work visa.

Or is there something you aren't telling us?

As for any language problems, you have just learned something about being here only 4 months. However, if you can't get past using mostly English to teach, even to students who don't know much (or claim so), then you need to reexamine how you teach. This is not meant to be harsh, just realistic.

All the online sign-up sites in the world won't do more than attract students to you initially. They won't help you KEEP students if you can't teach them in a way that they like.

[the mighty quinn]

urm... by working for a company for a few days a week?! :P

I have a few friends that teach privately at private english schools, one or two days a week. One friend even does this on a more casual basis (obviously, not as his main source of income). This might provide me with the visa sponsorship, too.

The lack of Japanese was just for the practicalities, as i said, as in scheduling lessons, sorting out money, that sort of thing. I don't see it as being a problem at all during the actual lessons. The only problems I've had so far in any of my lessons with the language barrier is when the students are translating from Kanji on worksheets... and I don't plan to use these sorts of resources when teaching privately.

[Glenski]

quinn,
Don't be a smart-aleck. Legally, you need a proper visa to work here, even a few days a week. What is your visa status (and since you brought it up, how about your friends')?

A work visa needs an employer to sponsor you, and you can't get sponsorship just for part-time work. The exception is called self-sponsorship of that work visa, and that takes place only after you have worked for a year here, then prove that you have enough PT work strung together to satisfy immigration's nebulous and ill-defined minimum salary requirements (anything from 170,000 to 250,000 yen/month). Private lessons will not count.

[Remixer]

I know I'm being off-topic right now, but I don't seem to grasp the concept of teaching in a coffee shop.

Why teach in a coffee shop, out of all places?

Or is that some culturally correlated thing?

Because I have never seen teaching in a coffee shop anywhere in the world. Be it Germany, Iran, Australia or the UAE.

Someone please enlighten me. :)


Remixer

[the mighty quinn]

Glenski,

Thank you very much for the useful information.

I was not being a smart alec, simply a bit of jest. Sorry if I caused any offence.

My visa status is just fine now, since I am in full-time work. But, I will lose sponsorship when I leave my current employment.

Are you absolutely, 100% sure that you can't get sponsorship for part-time work? If not, I'll do some research. If so, looks like I'll have to change my plans.

Remixer,

Teaching does happen in coffeeshops (not just in Japan) because it's just a convenient place for private lessons to take place. The same as lessons in someone's home (the teacher's or the student's). Usually people do it 'on the side' to make a bit of extra cash.

It's usually for one-on-one or very small groups.

[Emoni]

Glenski,

Thank you very much for the useful information.

I was not being a smart alec, simply a bit of jest. Sorry if I caused any offence.

My visa status is just fine now, since I am in full-time work. But, I will lose sponsorship when I leave my current employment.

Are you absolutely, 100% sure that you can't get sponsorship for part-time work? If not, I'll do some research. If so, looks like I'll have to change my plans.

Remixer,

Teaching does happen in coffeeshops (not just in Japan) because it's just a convenient place for private lessons to take place. The same as lessons in someone's home (the teacher's or the student's). Usually people do it 'on the side' to make a bit of extra cash.

It's usually for one-on-one or very small groups.

PART-TIME work sponsorship? I think that is doable maybe in English Eikaiwa things, but for coffee shop teaching? That is usually done by visiting ryuugakusei from what I have seen. I knew a guy who did that for some time in Japan during his stay and almost paid his whole study abroad trip. He was good a tit.

[Glenski]

I know I'm being off-topic right now, but I don't seem to grasp the concept of teaching in a coffee shop.

Why teach in a coffee shop, out of all places?

Or is that some culturally correlated thing?
Remixer,
People sometimes want private language classes, and coffee shops are one of the more popular places to meet for them. They are not always noisy, and if you go to Starbucks, it is smoke-free, too. Other venues include restaurants, one's office after hours, parks, karaoke rooms, library study rooms, community centers, etc. You could even hold a private lesson in your home or your student's home, but there may be logistic problems. That is, not all teachers live centrally to the city, nor do potential students. And, many people would prefer to go to a class right after work, so someplace central to a business area is often ideal.

My visa status is just fine now, since I am in full-time work. But, I will lose sponsorship when I leave my current employment.Your visa is good until it expires. If you leave your current job before the visa expires, the visa is still valid.

Are you absolutely, 100% sure that you can't get sponsorship for part-time work? If not, I'll do some research. If so, looks like I'll have to change my plans.Would 99% certainty be sufficient? I've been here more than 10 years and never heard of anyone getting a work visa sponsored with a part-time job. I've been posting for 11 years and kept quite close tabs on the whole process, too.

Immigration wants to know that you have a guaranteed income (something that cannot be promised with private lessons) and an income that prevents you from becoming a burden on society (ie, sleeping on park benches). Self-sponsorship doesn't have a prescribed minimum salary, partly because it depends on the standard of living where you live, but I've seen people get it with as low as 150,000 yen/month. That's incredibly dirt-cheap wages! Figure you'd have to make something like subsistence wages closer to 180,000-200,000. You've only been here 4 months, though, so you don't qualify for self-sponsorship. Move to a new location tomorrow, and you still have 8 months or so left on your visa. Then, you have to renew with a new sponsor, or get enough private lessons to self-sponsor.

Essentially, what you are asking is whether you can get continued visa sponsorship for just a couple of days a week with one employer. Nope. Not going to happen. 100% sure there.

How about answering my question about those friends? People often write about acquaintances and their visa situations, but they often realize that they didn't know what it was all about, and then they learn that the situation is not what they had thought.

for coffee shop teaching? That is usually done by visiting ryuugakusei from what I have seen. I knew a guy who did that for some time in Japan during his stay and almost paid his whole study abroad trip. He was good a tit. A ryuugakusei (foreign exchange student) cannot work on his student visa alone. They must get special permission after 3 months in school, and all they can do is work part-time. Picking up private lessons on the sly is technically illegal, but there really isn't a "private lesson police" to watch you. Unless one is in a position (like an ex-eikaiwa teacher or a college student) to pick up a lot of private lesson students, it isn't that easy to get started. Even in this day and age of the Internet, where students can find you on www.findateacher.com and arrange for meetings, there are many factors against teachers.
1) You have to keep your name active on the lists, or you drop to the bottom and out of view by students.
2) Just having your name on a site doesn't guarantee anything. Your picture, profile, nationality, experience, location, etc. can disqualify you from any potential student.
3) Snagging an initial meeting also means nothing. You may have the wrong chemistry, or not agree on finances.
4) Private lessons are notoriously fickle. They will stop taking classes at the drop of a hat. KNOW YOUR BUSINESS BEFOREHAND! Teaching private lessons is not just a matter of chatting in Starbucks.

[Chidoriashi]

Glenski> I totally agree. Giving people private lessons should be thought of in terms of extra beer money etc. It is certainly not a dependable source of income.

[Emoni]

A ryuugakusei (foreign exchange student) cannot work on his student visa alone. They must get special permission after 3 months in school, and all they can do is work part-time.


Forgot that part. Yes, you need special permission. However,it is extremely easy to get.

[Taiko666]

I had a mate who married a Japanese lady and moved here hoping to find work. He's an experienced motorcycle mechanic but as he has very limited Japanese, no bike shop would go near him. He was able to sustain himself for a few months by teaching English in coffee shops. His wife distributed his homemade meishi among a dozen or so friends and he soon had a fair-sized clientele base. All he had to do was turn up at the appointed coffee shop and encourage his client to chat away in English. Easy money!

[Glenski]

I had a mate who married a Japanese lady and moved here hoping to find work. He's an experienced motorcycle mechanic but as he has very limited Japanese, no bike shop would go near him. He was able to sustain himself for a few months by teaching English in coffee shops.Don't forget to mention that he was able to stay in the country longer than a 90-day tourist because of his spouse visa.

His wife distributed his homemade meishi among a dozen or so friends and he soon had a fair-sized clientele base.A dozen is not what I'd call "fair-sized". How much "easy money" did he take in? Please don't say 1500-2000 yen per student per hour.

[Damicci]

A dozen is not what I'd call "fair-sized". How much "easy money" did he take in? Please don't say 1500-2000 yen per student per hour.


I think he was saying that passing out cards to a dozen friends got word around for him to build a nice sized clientele.

[Glenski]

ok, Damicci. Given.
And the "easy money"?

[Taiko666]

ok, Damicci. Given.
And the "easy money"?

You're right Damicci, his wife's distribution of his meishi allowed word to get around.

I said the money was 'easy', not plentiful! I believe he was getting around 2000 yen for 60 mins, with perhaps an average of 3 sessions a day. I say 'sessions' rather than 'lessons' because he was literally just chatting with his clients, with perhaps a few English pointers here and there.

He treated it as something to present to his wife while he was busy trying to find a 'real' job.

Glenski> I totally agree. Giving people private lessons should be thought of in terms of extra beer money etc. It is certainly not a dependable source of income.

If one has a visa, perseverence and talent, I don't see why it can't become a reasonable source of income.

[Chidoriashi]

I did not say it could not be reasonable or even substantial source of extra income. The problem is it is not reliable, as people come, go, cancel lessons etc.. It is better to have a contract, and then get some extra stuff on the side. If you imagine someone doing what you are saying they might as well just try to open up their own school. But for those who do not seem like they have such diligent intentions in mind (like the OP), i would not recommend betting your rent on it. Would you come here and try to make a decent living with a handful of students teaching out of coffee shops?

[Taiko666]

I did not say it could not be reasonable or even substantial source of extra income. The problem is it is not reliable, as people come, go, cancel lessons etc.. It is better to have a contract, and then get some extra stuff on the side. If you imagine someone doing what you are saying they might as well just try to open up their own school. But for those who do not seem like they have such diligent intentions in mind (like the OP), i would not recommend betting your rent on it. Would you come here and try to make a decent living with a handful of students teaching out of coffee shops?


The problem is it is not reliable, as people come, go, cancel lessons etc..


True, but that's same for any self-employed person in many walks of life. It takes a certain type of person to make a success of it.


Would you come here and try to make a decent living with a handful of students teaching out of coffee shops?

Obviously coming to Japan to start any sort of business with no other means of support is incredibly risky and practically impossible given the strict visa regulations. But for a person who is already resident, can afford to take a risk and is of the 'right stuff', why not? A handle of students in a coffee shop could turn into your own school in a few years...


But for those who do not seem like they have such diligent intentions in mind (like the OP), i would not recommend betting your rent on it.

Also true. I think I was in the realm of the hypothetical.

To be brutal, if somebody doesn't have the wherewithal to come up with their own ideas for contacting Japanese people and promoting themselves, they're not of the 'right stuff' to succeed at this sort of thing.

[Chidoriashi]

A handle of students in a coffee shop could turn into your own school in a few years...

Possibly, but in the meantime, I would want a steady income from a contract.

[the mighty quinn]

I think I would go with some sort of reliable, definite source of income to use as a base (whatever percentage of the whole that may be), and then use the coffeeshop lessons around this.

However, if you could come up with a way of promoting yourself so you always had students knocking at your door, then there's no reason I can see why you couldn't have you're income entirely come from coffeeshop lessons, even taking into consideration how unreliable people can be. There might even be a way of convincing the visa people that you're getting enough income from this to support yourself.

Completely hypothetically of course...

Are there any taxes or things to take into consideration? Obviously if it's cash-in-hand, might not be a problem, but legally...?

[bakaKanadajin]

However, if you could come up with a way of promoting yourself so you always had students knocking at your door, then there's no reason I can see why you couldn't have you're income entirely come from coffeeshop lessons,

Based on my limited experience even seasoned teachers in large urban centers have problems creating tidal waves of students out of thin air. It's usually a clientele base of students they've had at eikaiwas or other places they've worked, with whom they've developed a relationship, and both of whom have agreed for various reasons that it's acceptable and beneficial to move the enterprise out of the safe, refundable, predictable workings of a school and into a coffee shop. Building a steady clientele of privates to live off of is a slow steady process, each is usually hand-picked or close to that in terms of time/effort.

In short, people with cash will pay the extra for formal lessons at a school.

People who will 'try you out' will have little money, most likely be a little scattered since they'll be students and young folk, fail to turn up sometimes since they're in no danger of losing reservation money, etc.

Again, based on my limited experience, the kind of Japanese you're seeking (steady, predictable paying clientele) generally prefer a sure bet in exchange for a higher price vs. the bargain deal with an unknown. I also see limited Japanese ability as a bit of a problem.

I'd suggest sticking it out where you are and seeing about a transfer within your current company to Tokyo or Osaka. Get on the books too if you plan on staying here any length of time, having some Japanese ability will enhance your experience tenfold.

[Glenski]

I said the money was 'easy', not plentiful! I believe he was getting around 2000 yen for 60 mins, with perhaps an average of 3 sessions a day. I say 'sessions' rather than 'lessons' because he was literally just chatting with his clients, with perhaps a few English pointers here and there.Another disgrace to the teaching community, while slapping Japanese students in the face. I knew this would be the answer.

If one has a visa, perseverence and talent, I don't see why it can't become a reasonable source of income.
It will take a lot of P and T. I know firsthand. Most people don't survive on private lessons alone, let alone make them a "reasonable source of income". Those that do have formed a school, not taught out of coffee shops.

Been online and in Japan for over a decade and have not heard of anyone who did it without forming their own company.

Oh, and having "a visa" is too vague. Spouse visa, ok. But for a regular work visa? Nope.

quinn wrote:
However, if you could come up with a way of promoting yourself so you always had students knocking at your door, then there's no reason I can see why you couldn't have you're income entirely come from coffeeshop lessons, even taking into consideration how unreliable people can be.Please! Don't speculate on what you don't know.

As for taxes, technically you're supposed to report any income, but I know of NOBODY who does that for private, cash in hand private lessons.

[Emoni]

Chatting is good practice, but it isn't teaching in my opinion. I felt horribly guilty if anyone tried to paid me for just "chatting" to be honest.

I've done some English teaching, a few professors at a university as well as university students at a few colleges, and while not trained or licensed in anyway and it was only a couple times I always had a lesson plan prepared and checked specifically what the client needed first. Any specific questions I couldn't answer I would go and check up and cover on the next lesson. I was no expert but I did what I could to advance the students knowledge both of the subject as well as strength a hold on what they have learned already and push them forward.

[bakaKanadajin]

Another disgrace to the teaching community, while slapping Japanese students in the face. I knew this would be the answer.


I think you're over-reacting a bit there Glenski. Anyone who's seriously studying a language knows first hand that any amount of time with a native speaker of that language is invaluable.

While it's certainly not the pinnacle of English education, a native speaker giving you pointers and providing you with an opportunity to use what you're studying for one hour (and I'm sure it spilled over into the 1 hour and 15 minutes, perhaps even 1 and a half hour range as it does with my private teacher), is a lot more helpful than most textbooks.

For 2000 yen, with a person who's being upfront about their capabilities and in a situation where everyone is clear on what they're getting and what's happening, you're getting decent value in my opinion. I'd pay 2000 yen for an hour where the focus is completely on me and a native speaker is correcting my mistakes and telling me things not found in textbooks, definitely.

It's all relative; although on the lowest rung of the ladder in terms of formality these arrangements have tangible benefits provided the right people are involved.

The problem is that in some (read: most) cases the Japanese educational system has not exactly yielded the kind of student who can benefit from that kind of environment; I mean the kind of environment where you are perceptive and free-thinking enough to absorb the intangibles based on simple native exposure and interaction and make your own connections between what was written in the text and what's happening in front of you. This is true to the degree that even when enrolled in some of the best locations and programs students continue to languish.

But all that aside, many Japanese students seek out a curriculum, some kind of system that they can follow, stay the path, etc. The Berlitz method, the Nova system, the whatever. For these masses the eikaiwas, the expensive schools, the 'academies' and 'institutes of', are more reassuring despite the results being essentially the same.

And once again I'm talking about speaking focused classes, universities and whatnot offer a completely different approach and purpose.

What I would consider a slap in the face are teachers employed all across Japan who for various reasons are protected by contracts and employed full time and therefore do not 'work for their money', they are for all intents and purposes assured a salary whether the student walks away satisfied or not. I don't think you can peg that kind of criticism on teachers in any one industry, they exist at all levels, although I'd agree they do inhabit eikaiwas more often than not.

[Glenski]

I think you're over-reacting a bit there Glenski. Anyone who's seriously studying a language knows first hand that any amount of time with a native speaker of that language is invaluable. I disagree, but let's leave it at that.

While it's certainly not the pinnacle of English education, a native speaker giving you pointers and providing you with an opportunity to use what you're studying for one hour (and I'm sure it spilled over into the 1 hour and 15 minutes, perhaps even 1 and a half hour range as it does with my private teacher), is a lot more helpful than most textbooks. Ah, but you assume that the teacher does all that when "chatting". I don't make that assumption. Have seen many that don't do any of that. Don't get me started.

For 2000 yen, with a person who's being upfront about their capabilities and in a situation where everyone is clear on what they're getting and what's happening, you're getting decent value in my opinion.Gritting my teeth and totally disagreeing.

I'd pay 2000 yen for an hour where the focus is completely on me and a native speaker is correcting my mistakes and telling me things not found in textbooks, definitely.So many "teachers" do the former and don't/can't do the latter. You get what you pay for. Beside, that undercuts the market for the rest of us who ask for more (yet far less than what was paid in the bubble days), offer more, and find it hard to get clients because they are used to the cheapskate wannabes.

I got a call from a uni professor who wanted a replacement for his Aussie tutor that returned to Oz. I told him he had to pay 4000 yen/hour plus transportation (amounting to a 45-minute subway ride plus a bus or taxi ride). We exchanged 2 emails on that, and he said he "only had to pay 2000 yen/hour" from his previous tutor. Gimme a break!
1. I'm not him.
2. You need the tutor, and I had experience while the Aussie didn't.
3. You have the money.
So, I lost the contract. Didn't lose sleep over it, because there are more fish in the sea, but can you see my point?

But all that aside, many Japanese students seek out a curriculum, some kind of system that they can follow, stay the path, etc. The Berlitz method, the Nova system, the whatever. For these masses the eikaiwas, the expensive schools, the 'academies' and 'institutes of', are more reassuring despite the results being essentially the same.Yes, and there are also huge numbers who go to eikaiwa only to socialize or kill time or meet a foreigner, NOT to learn the language to any degree.

And once again I'm talking about speaking focused classes, universities and whatnot offer a completely different approach and purpose.My uni is not that much different than most others in the respect that we have a certain number of mandatory courses, and most students just get them out of the way in the first year. They see no value in them and have no concept of "structure". It's a credit to pay for, nothing more.

What I would consider a slap in the face are teachers employed all across Japan who for various reasons are protected by contracts and employed full time and therefore do not 'work for their money', they are for all intents and purposes assured a salary whether the student walks away satisfied or not. I don't think you can peg that kind of criticism on teachers in any one industry, they exist at all levels, although I'd agree they do inhabit eikaiwas more often than not.Yup. They do (and I did, too, but I was not that type). I don't see things changing for the better there, though.

[bakaKanadajin]

I disagree, but let's leave it at that.

Ah, but you assume that the teacher does all that when "chatting". I don't make that assumption. Have seen many that don't do any of that. Don't get me started.

Gritting my teeth and totally disagreeing.


Well I draw a clear line between language exchange and an informal lesson.
Language exchange is just chatting and it has to happen in both languages to make it an equal exchange since no ones paying, and the situation we're discussing was a lesson. The OP of that post did say that it was chatting but that pointers were given. I think it fits the bill moreso of an informal lesson than a free chat session because again, focus was all on the student's desired target language and there was correction involved.

Again, to compare I put it out there, any foreigner in Japan seriously studying Japanese would know that time with a native speaker who will, although not marking your papers and adhering to a peer-reviewed curriculum, provide you with an hour of native-speaker level examples and correct you when you don't make sense, is invaluable if you have the faculties to absorb it.

I'm not even so much defending what that guy did in particular, just the concept that 2000yen an hour for a light lesson isn't automatically poor value.


So many "teachers" do the former and don't/can't do the latter. You get what you pay for. Beside, that undercuts the market for the rest of us who ask for more (yet far less than what was paid in the bubble days), offer more, and find it hard to get clients because they are used to the cheapskate wannabes.


Yes, and there are also huge numbers who go to eikaiwa only to socialize or kill time or meet a foreigner, NOT to learn the language to any degree.

You should know having so many years in the industry that you do not always get what you pay for at any level. But fair enough, on average you do get more at a school. Books, refunds, a quiet learning environment, more flexible lesson hours, listening material, etc.

Sure students are sometimes there to do nothing but socialize and
I don't disagree with you there but that's at the cheapies and indies.
The biggest of those is (was) Nova. It's feasible to pay cash for company at those kinds of places because it doesn't cost a whole lot.

Although not super I think the money paid at places like Gaba and Berlitz (especially Berlitz, as I understand it they're the most expensive of the big names) warrants more careful spending on the students part, I mean that'd be a hella expensive way just to meet people.

Also, hate to break it to you but bubble and pre-bubble days are gone world-wide. Thinking we're entitled to the salaries they paid during that dream-phase is just silly. The Japanese themselves can't even hope for that. That's one of the things that makes me laugh at the Berlitz union's fight. Whatever happened to just working for your money and making sure you don't get canned?


I got a call from a uni professor who wanted a replacement for his Aussie tutor that returned to Oz. I told him he had to pay 4000 yen/hour plus transportation (amounting to a 45-minute subway ride plus a bus or taxi ride). We exchanged 2 emails on that, and he said he "only had to pay 2000 yen/hour" from his previous tutor. Gimme a break!
1. I'm not him.
2. You need the tutor, and I had experience while the Aussie didn't.
3. You have the money.
So, I lost the contract. Didn't lose sleep over it, because there are more fish in the sea, but can you see my point?


I won't argue with you there. As I said, 2000yen an hour is reasonable digs for an informal lesson where the self-motivated, perceptive student benefits from and is able to absorb native exposure and unstructured correction. If that individual wanted someone armed with the tools to supplement a university-level education then he will get what he pays for at 2000yen.


My uni is not that much different than most others in the respect that we have a certain number of mandatory courses, and most students just get them out of the way in the first year. They see no value in them and have no concept of "structure". It's a credit to pay for, nothing more.

And despite what I said in the above paragraph, a lot of students see their entire time at Uni like that due to the way the companies recruit. Recruiting practices over here effectively end the need to study at having been accepted into Uni., not graduating.

[Glenski]

Well I draw a clear line between language exchange and an informal lesson.
Language exchange is just chattingNot where I come from. Language exchange could also be where person A teaches a mini-lesson to person B, and then vice versa happens.

Again, to compare I put it out there, any foreigner in Japan seriously studying Japanese would know that time with a native speaker who will, although not marking your papers and adhering to a peer-reviewed curriculum, provide you with an hour of native-speaker level examples and correct you when you don't make sense, is invaluable if you have the faculties to absorb it.Yes, and that is not just chatting.

I'm not even so much defending what that guy did in particular, just the concept that 2000yen an hour for a light lesson isn't automatically poor value. You have your financial standards, and so do I. Plenty of people on other discussion forums would agree with me that 2000 yen/hour is a pittance and disgrace, yet so many newbies and naive "teachers" ask for it. Students will always want the lowest prices, yet some of my friends have run into interesting circumstances when they raised their prices -- the students actually said, "It's about time!"


Sure students are sometimes there to do nothing but socialize and
I don't disagree with you there but that's at the cheapies and indies. I am not sure what you mean by "cheapies and indies". NOVA was like the other big chain eikaiwas.

The biggest of those is (was) Nova. It's feasible to pay cash for company at those kinds of places because it doesn't cost a whole lot.Depends on your bank account. Places like NOVA had students sign up for a mandatory set of lessons, and those weren't cheap!

Also, hate to break it to you but bubble and pre-bubble days are gone world-wide. Thinking we're entitled to the salaries they paid during that dream-phase is just silly.I didn't mean to imply that. To hope for 10,000 yen per hour's lesson is indeed silly. However, 2000 is abyssmal. Most serious teachers, not chatters, will ask for 4000-5000 these days and get it. The problem I bring up is that too many newbies or naive people bring the expectation of fees down by charging 1000-2000.

And despite what I said in the above paragraph, a lot of students see their entire time at Uni like that due to the way the companies recruit. Recruiting practices over here effectively end the need to study at having been accepted into Uni., not graduating.Yup, in most cases, it's largely a matter of who your major professor is and knows, and what the name of your school is.

[bakaKanadajin]

You have your financial standards, and so do I. Plenty of people on other discussion forums would agree with me that 2000 yen/hour is a pittance and disgrace

As I already said it depends on what you're supposed to be getting. It sounds like you think anything at 2000 yen is a disgrace. I'm not saying that teaching for 2000 yen an hour is a way to make a living, I'm simply saying that for 2000 yen it's possible to have a native speaker chat with you for an hour, correct a few of your mistake and for you to be able to derive benefit from that.


I am not sure what you mean by "cheapies and indies". NOVA was like the other big chain eikaiwas.

I mean the little places that don't even advertise.

NOVA was by far the worst. Absolutely. Every company has its good and not so good locations (big schools are always the worst because they're so busy and the teachers don't care) but NOVA was bad across the boards. Also keep in mind things like business practices and the variety of materials used, working conditions, etc.

Depends on your bank account. Places like NOVA had students sign up for a mandatory set of lessons, and those weren't cheap!

It's all relative. If you're gonna use eikaiwa as a meet-market NOVA was the biggest and cheapest pony.

[Glenski]

I'm certainly not saying that 2000 yen/lesson/student is something to live on. Nope. I'm just saying that most people nowadays who have done any teaching here at all will scoff at the 2000 figure and tell you that it's very easy to ask for and get twice that.

The 2000 yen fees bring the market down. Only naive teachers ask for such wages, and that's what I am talking about. Ask for more. You'll be surprised at how many will pay.

Want to teach serious or just gab about your own weekend and let students sit in awed silence? That's your business, but the money is still there to be had. Don't make it worse for the rest of us who are not just starting out. That's my message.

[Taiko666]

Glenski, my mate's motive in obtaining cash this way was to save his marriage. The impact of his actions on official teachers' earnings were not really part of his decision-making process. What you say to him if you met him?

In any case, while I of course appreciate your concerns, the term 'price fixing cartel' springs to mind. It's a competitive world, and being undercut is just part of life. I'm being adversley affected by this phenomenon at the moment.

[Glenski]

Glenski, my mate's motive in obtaining cash this way was to save his marriage. The impact of his actions on official teachers' earnings were not really part of his decision-making process. What you say to him if you met him?This is the bike mechanic from post #13?

Simple. I'd tell him what I tell other people including my friends who sometimes sell themselves for too low a price: you can make far more.

I will not call them stupid, just naive, if that's what you're driving at. I would like to further discuss your mechanic friend and his situation, but that would deviate from this thread. PM me if you want to continue. No real need, though.

In any case, while I of course appreciate your concerns, the term 'price fixing cartel' springs to mind.And, "let the buyer beware" comes to mine.

It's a competitive world, and being undercut is just part of life. I'm being adversley affected by this phenomenon at the moment.And, how do you feel about it? I felt bad when the NOVA teachers lost their jobs and some had to sell lessons on the street (literally) for 500 yen or food, but theirs was a unique situation. For someone to plan to go into the private lesson business (and yes, it is a business!) one had better plan well.

Oh, and does being undercut mean we have to like it? Of course not, as your own words above lead me to believe. What do you tell people who ask for too low a price on private lessons, and those lessons are virtually taken away from you?

[Taiko666]

And, how do you feel about it?
I never suggested that one shouldn't feel bad about being undercut. I don't see how complaining about the people doing the undercutting helps though.

What do you tell people who ask for too low a price on private lessons, and those lessons are virtually taken away from you?

Naturally I'd like to tell the workers in my company's Indian office to ask for more money, then my job in Japan might be safeguarded :-) But then of course they'd be out of a job instead.

[Glenski]

I don't see how complaining about the people doing the undercutting helps though.Complain enough to the undercutters, and maybe they'll take the hint. That's my strategy anyway.

Naturally I'd like to tell the workers in my company's Indian office to ask for more money, then my job in Japan might be safeguarded :-) But then of course they'd be out of a job instead.Well, we all need our priorities. :biggrin: