Ishihara: 'Best if N. Korea Becomes Part of China'

[Adulado]

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_325573.html

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum.

[Mikawa Ossan]

My opinion is that it's an interesting idea, but it'll never happen, and even if it did, it would be untenable at best.

Given Korea's history, I can't imagine that either the North or South would willingly become under the sovereignty of another country. Too many identity issues would come into issue.

[Astroboy]

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_325573.html

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum.

I think it is best because ....

1. Korean penisular was historically tributary area of China, except some periods of Japanese annexation. So historic tie is very strong, and many Chinese with Korean background live in the neighbouring area in China. Maybe political leaders of NK do not like China, but should be all right on a private level.

2. China spent millions of lives in the Korean War, including sons of Chairman Mao. Plus Chinese communist government had provided NK with economic supports & militaristic supports for long time. Theoretically China will not like to release NK to South Korea or others as USA does not like to release South Korea.

3. From the Japanese perspective, concern about NK is "abduction issue" & "nukes" ONLY. Japan does not care about North Korea itself. I believe it is the best if China annex North Korea ... as the Chinese government is much NORMAL than unpredictable NK government.... Japan can talk with China.

4. On top of that, majority of Japanese don't care about political status of South Korea. So as far as China controls North Korea well and not come down to the South, it is the best at least to Japan.

[Adulado]

I think it is best because ....
1. Korean penisular was historically tributary area of China, except some periods of Japanese annexation. So historic tie is very strong, and many Chinese with Korean background live in the neighbouring area in China. Maybe political leaders of NK do not like China, but should be all right on a private level.


Nonsense

2. China spent millions of lives in the Korean War, including sons of Chairman Mao. Plus Chinese communist government had provided NK with economic supports & militaristic supports for long time. Theoretically China will not like to release NK to South Korea or others as USA does not like to release South Korea.

nonsense

4. On top of that, majority of Japanese don't care about political status of South Korea. So as far as China controls North Korea well and not come down to the South, it is the best at least to Japan.

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?

[Astroboy]

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?
I think I said .... As far as China annex North Korea only, it is good for Japan. N Koreas are starved to death everyday. So physically impossible, I think.

In the meanwhile, "nonsense" is meaningless. You should indicate why you believe it "nonsense". :blush:

[JerseyBoy]

Nonsense

nonsense

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?
I think Astro is a son of the Ishihara character. :) His replies are as bizarre as they can be (based on his other comments on the forum, I am not surprised).

[Adulado]

I think I said .... As far as China annex North Korea only, it is good for Japan. N Koreas are starved to death everyday. So physically impossible, I think.

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

In the meanwhile, "nonsense" is meaningless. You should indicate why you believe it "nonsense". :blush:

I won't answer, you already know.

[JerseyBoy]

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?.
I don't know how his brain is wired, to be frank with you.:) From the global political and economic perspective, North Korea's only bargaining chip is its nuclear weapon development. If NK collapses (I think it is when not if, as there is no economy in NK to speak of), UN and other regional players need to grapple with the refugee issue and reconstruction of the country.

Japan is not a savvy diplomat in the international stage. So, its role would be subservient to USA, UN, and China. If you put J-PMs(the current and previous ones) on the western media, they would be eaten alive by the interviewers.

[caster51]

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."?
it is impossible.. both contries have no ability like Germany ..

Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

he dose not want to be involved in them.
that is Japan learnt..

[Astroboy]

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

As far as I know, North Korea is starved to death. And since cold war ended, NK has become a lonely wolf as China and Russia don't support North Korea anymore. In fact North Korea still uses weaponds of the times of Korean War. AS they know that NK militalistic strength is nearly nothing, they need to rely on Nuke, which is only a hope of NK to survive.

In the meanwhile, both South Korea and China are VERY good customer of Japan, and they fully rely on Japanese technologies. Thus, leaders of Japan, SK ad China are having regular meeting, arn't they?

[Astroboy]

I don't know how his brain is wired, to be frank with you.:) From the global political and economic perspective, North Korea's only bargaining chip is its nuclear weapon development. If NK collapses (I think it is when not if, as there is no economy in NK to speak of), UN and other regional players need to grapple with the refugee issue and reconstruction of the country.

Japan is not a savvy diplomat in the international stage. So, its role would be subservient to USA, UN, and China. If you put J-PMs(the current and previous ones) on the western media, they would be eaten alive by the interviewers.

I don't understand you well, but it is always good for Japan NOT to be savvy in the international politics. I don't think that Savvy USA/Russia/UK/CHina are Happy. :blush: Keeping distance from "Savvy" countries is always good.

I repeat that the key is .... it is BEST if China annex North Korea as China will take all responsibilities about NK as well as NK issues, including food aids, nukes, abduction issues, etc. China is much normal than North Korean goverment, and instead of such responsibilities, let China enslave North Korea.
It must be the best solution even to the ordinary people of North Korea.

[Adulado]

↑ Sorry, there's nothing to which I can respond coherently as you sound so forceful or should I say defying common sense?

it is impossible.. both contries have no ability like Germany ..
he dose not want to be involved in them.
that is Japan learnt..

By what standards, by Japanese ones? Then it might be so.

[Astroboy]

I think it is best because ....

5. Unification of Korean penisular (either unified by North or unfied by South) is not good for China and Japan, considering "Nature of Korean". So it is best to be divided at least or annexed by China (including Korean autonomous region).

I think Japan, USA and China will be in a full agreement for "Divided Korea"

[Adulado]

I think it is best because ....
5. Unification of Korean penisular (either unified by North or unfied by South) is not good for China and Japan, considering "Nature of Korean". So it is best to be divided at least or annexed by China (including Korean autonomous region).
I think Japan, USA and China will be in a full agreement for "Divided Korea"

I'm not getting it, you mean by then having a greater qinese threat next to Japan?

[Astroboy]

I'm not getting it, you mean by then having a greater qinese threat next to Japan?

I am wondering ... why you say "qinese", instead of Chinese.

China is ALREADY Greater China, isn't it? It does not matter With Half of Korea or Not. Plus, South Korea is there in-between Japan and China. Let South Korea face China. :-)

So China is not a threat to Japan, but threat to South Korea.

On top of that, both China and South Korea are good customers for Japan. Let's consider them as "customers" instead of threat. :p

[JerseyBoy]

I don't understand you well, but it is always good for Japan NOT to be savvy in the international politics. I don't think that Savvy USA/Russia/UK/CHina are Happy. :blush: Keeping distance from "Savvy" countries is always good.
I repeat that the key is .... it is BEST if China annex North Korea as China will take all responsibilities about NK as well as NK issues, including food aids, nukes, abduction issues, etc. China is much normal than North Korean goverment, and instead of such responsibilities, let China enslave North Korea.
It must be the best solution even to the ordinary people of North Korea.
Your comment sounds like an random incoherent thought. Maybe a language issue you have with English... Or, it could be your fundamental lapse of logical thinking...
Also, the abduction issue is of no importance to anyone outside Japan.

[caster51]

North korea and china are silent now about Ishihara's opinion.
then ,,

i mean there is no reaction about it from china and North korea
He might have been looking forward to the reaction of North Korea.
a reaction tells that China is unpleasant

North　korean econmy, militaly and politics are already under china,
China has already obtained a lot of rights in North Korea.
Moreover, most of goods that circulate to North Korea is the Chinese product
so is currency..
and histrical issue about koguryo..
noth korea never complained about it.
North Korea cannot act against China.

however , why is North Korea existence still as the country.?
It is an easy story. It is because of convenience for China.
There is no material of the negotiation to USA ,etc for China without existence named North Korea.
China is having dealings by it with the United States and Japan.
today, it is not imperial era, that is why china can not declare loudly
" China annexed the territory in North Korea to China. "
China is declaring that China immediately intervenes it even if the United
Nations doesn't judge it if there is an accident in North Korea.

successor's person is not still clarified in north korea.
The preparation for reception that assumes putting in to the territory in China seems to be progressing in North Korea with steady steps.

Ishihara says to retiredness that "China should merge North Korea"
His true intention thinks that "China should absorb the Korean Peninsura"

Both north and south korea say '' korean unification" like a prayer.
however they hate each other, and rhey dont want to unify..
There is no intention that South Korea also annexes.

according to chosun newspaper, Obama said "Japan is an ally. South korea is a friendly nation "
If China hopes, the nuance that South Korea also gives China is included for the United States that attaches importance to diplomacy toward China.
China wants to absorb a Korean peninsula in the real intention.
There is basically not an objection in that in the United States either.
Japan thinks China is better than North and south Korea as neighboring country though It makes a troubles for Japan.

The Takeshima problem might be solved, too. ?
it is said "All origins of China are South Korea."
This theory becomes a just argument if absorbed to China.
The excuse became possible though South Korea was groping for the introduction of the disliked Chinese character, too.
south and north korean union of earnest wish "is achieved, too.:p
If Korean peninsula is annexed by China, it can solve all problem of northeast Asia all at once.

[Adulado]

↑ Stop babbling according to your opinions.

[JerseyBoy]

North korea and china are silent now about Ishihara's opinion.
then ,,
i mean there is no reaction about it from china and North korea
He might have been looking forward to the reaction of North Korea.

I don't think anyone outside Tokyo (or Japan) pays attention to what Ishihara (or most of other Japanese politicians) says .

[Emoni]

I'm starting to get the feeling that this very thread is 100% uneducated opinion...

[Astroboy]

Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences

The Chinese Academy has already identified that North Korea was a part of CHINA in its research projects, called Northeast Project.

This project applies the ideology of Zhonghua Minzu to ancient ethnic groups, states and history of the region of Manchuria and northern Korea

Under the Zhonghua Minzu ideology, it is assumed that there was a greater Chinese state in the ancient past. Accordingly, any pre-modern people or states that occupied any part of what is now the People's Republic of China are defined as having been part of that greater Chinese state.

Similar projects have been conducted on Tibet and Xinjiang, which have been named Southwest Project and Northwest Project, respectively.

Due to its claims on Gojoseon, Goguryeo and Balhae, the project sparked disputes with Korea.

In 2004, this dispute threatened to lead to diplomatic disputes between the People's Republic of China and the Republic of Korea, although all governments involved seem to exhibit no desire to see the issue damage relations. However, there has been a shift from anti-American and pro-China to a pro-American and anti-China in Korea as a strategic move. :blush:

The Northeast Project quickly caught the attention of the Korean press and caused a massive public outrage in Korea. In response, China blocked access to Chinese language websites protesting China's claims on Goguryeo. It is also suspected that the Chinese government was responsible for the shutdown of a popular Korean Chinese community website, where there was active criticism against the Chinese government's claims on Goguryeo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Project_of_the_Chinese_Academy_of_Social _Sciences

In short, China has already defines .... North Korea was a part of Greater China, while South Korea denies it. And I fully agree with the Chinese academy:wave:

So, what Ishihara said is exactly in line with the Chinese Academy.

[caster51]

I don't think anyone outside Tokyo (or Japan) pays attention to what Ishihara (or most of other Japanese politicians) says

Why is he popular among foreigners?
China and korea loved him..
anyway.
it was a big news in south korea...



then
So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum

[JerseyBoy]

Why is he popular among foreigners?
China and korea loved him..
anyway.
it was a big news in south korea...
then
He is just a clown in the eye of non-nationalist Japanese (ie. Japanese with the overseas education, non Japanese, and common-sense Japanese with good jobs). He is like Aso who tends to exhibit the foot-in-the-mouth gaffe. I think S. Korea does not like Japan that much due to the war time atrocities Japan inflicted on them. Nationalism comes out of past national humiliation.

[JerseyBoy]

In short, China has already defines .... North Korea was a part of Greater China, while South Korea denies it. And I fully agree with the Chinese academy:wave:
So, what Ishihara said is exactly in line with the Chinese Academy.
How can you reach that decision based on one institution? The fact the academy is part of the Chinese communist party apparatus does not necessary mean it represents the official Chinese government's opinion.

I am not sure of the timing of Ishi's comment. But, is it possible his comment is after this academy made an announcement? I don't know Ishi too much; but, he does not come across to me as a person who is well versed in the international affairs (he is just a lowly Tokyo gov.).

[caster51]

I think S. Korea does not like Japan that much due to the war time atrocities Japan inflicted on them

what happend?

How can you reach that decision based on one institution? The fact the academy is part of the Chinese communist party apparatus does not necessary mean it represent the official Chinese government's opinion.

I am not sure of the timing of Ishi's comment. But, is it possible his comment is after this academy made an announcement? I don't know Ishi too much; but, he does not come across to me as a person who is well versed in the international affairs (he is just a lowly Tokyo gov.).

china is correct in this case
Ishihara is a chairman of kidnapped family in Japan
He can say about this matter loudly
I think he is more famous because of a brother of Yujiro:p

[Astroboy]

Defectors from North Korea believe that the Chinese will take over if it appears that the North Korean government is about to fall apart.

The Chinese plan to install pro-Chinese North Koreans as head of a new "North Korean" government, and institute the kind of economic reforms they have been urging the North Korean to undertake for over a decade.

The Chinese do not want North Korea to merge with South Korea, nor do they want North Korea to collapse and send millions of starving refugees into northern China. China and South Korea both want North Korea to stay independent, and harmless.

Thus China is willing to unofficially annex North Korea, knowing that the South Koreans would go along with this as long as the fiction of North Korean independence were maintained. South Korea won't admit this, but most South Koreans know that absorbing North Korea would put a big dent in South Korean living standards. That is more unpopular than any other outcome.
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/korea/articles/20080929.aspx

This is all about, and this is very reasonable way of thinking.
It is no doubt that North Korea will fall into the hands of China, and from the Japanese perspective, Chinese way shall be righht. :wave:

[Adulado]

The Chinese do not want North Korea to merge with South Korea, nor do they want North Korea to collapse and send millions of starving refugees into northern China.

I've been saying this many times on other boards. This argument about refugees flooding qina (as if that will actually happen) that the qinese use is nothing more than a facade to cover up their intent and also their inferiority complex toward Koreans. Do you really think qinese troops located near the border are there because of the refugees (laughs)? Also why would N. Koreans would want to cross to qina since they'll be merging with a better system where they'll be better off? Like East Germans, did they cross to other countries when the wall fell? Also wouldn't S. Korea, US, Japan (except twisted maniacs like you), EU, UN and other nations take care of them giving financial aid and food support?

Thus China is willing to unofficially annex North Korea, knowing that the South Koreans would go along with this as long as the fiction of North Korean independence were maintained.

Is qina willing to face opposition from Korean, US, UN armies or eventual allince with Russia, India or Japan maybe?

South Korea won't admit this, but most South Koreans know that absorbing North Korea would put a big dent in South Korean living standards. That is more unpopular than any other outcome.

I'd say Korea has nothing to lose about reunification but has everything to gain from it since each side complement each other perfectly. One side provides cheap labor, natural resources (since N. Korea is rich in it) and on the other technology, manufacture plants, jobs etc. About lagging economy due to reunification it's a matter of time only, and I'm pretty sure most Koreans about 99% are willing to sacrifice themselves to overcome it. Maybe a second miracle on the Han River will follow.

Do you represent the view of the majority of your own people? If so then they can be easily labeled as twisted maniacs and freaks which I'm not willing to do so.

[Astroboy]

I've been saying this many times on other boards. This argument about refugees flooding qina (as if that will actually happen) that the qinese use is nothing more than a facade to cover up their intent and also their inferiority complex toward Koreans. Do you really think qinese troops located near the border are there because of the refugees (laughs)? Also why would N. Koreans would want to cross to qina since they'll be merging with a better system where they'll be better off? Like East Germans, did they cross to other countries when the wall fell? Also wouldn't S. Korea, US, Japan (except twisted maniacs like you), EU, UN and other nations take care of them giving financial aid and food support?

North Koreans are crossng the border for entries to China even TODAY for survival. Then North Korean (refugees/illegal migrants from Chinese view) travel to Mongol, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. to go to South Korea because they cannot cross the border with South.

I think that Wall with South will NEVER fall as China will not release North Korea to the South. The reason is already explained before.

Is qina willing to face opposition from Korean, US, UN armies or eventual allince with Russia, India or Japan maybe?

North Korea is an independent & sovereign nation, being a member of UN. Sovereignty is the same as South Korea. China will easily set up a puppet leader in NK after Kim's regime end. Then Nobody can say anything about NK because it will still be a sovereign nation "superficially".

Assuming that "qina" is China, I think the world will not make any opposition against China because no reason to oppose.

In other words, why does the world need to think that Korean penisular should be united ? If South Korean wants to unify the North, SK should do it on its own.

I'd say Korea has nothing to lose about reunification but has everything to gain from it since each side complement each other perfectly. One side provides cheap labor, natural resources (since N. Korea is rich in it) and on the other technology, manufacture plants, jobs etc. About lagging economy due to reunification it's a matter of time only, and I'm pretty sure most Koreans about 99% are willing to sacrifice themselves to overcome it. Maybe a second miracle on the Han River will follow.

I would say ..... you better not calculate the benefits before you gain.

Do you represent the view of the majority of your own people? If so then they can be easily labeled as twisted maniacs and freaks which I'm not willing to do so.

I am not a Prime Minister of Japan, and thus I don't say I represent Japan, but from the Japanese perspctive, Generlly .... "Greater Korea" is not good as Koreans in general continue to cause troubles in Japan or aganist Japan.
United Korea is just a nightmare as troubles become double. :blush:

I believe that the Chinese must have the similar views about Korea. It is because ... "Greater Korea" will cause troubles via connecting with Chinese Koreans living in Northeast Provinces. So, better be "Divided".

In the meanwhile, I don't think I am twisted, but very realistic or logical.
IF you believe Astroboy is twisted, please explain your logic ... WHY you believe the world will support Korean re-unification, not only questioning.
:wave:

[Adulado]

North Koreans are crossng the border for entries to China even TODAY for survival. Then North Korean (refugees/illegal migrants from Chinese view) travel to Mongol, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. to go to South Korea because they cannot cross the border with South.

You forget there's a road connecting the two Koreas.

North Korea is an independent & sovereign nation, being a member of UN. Sovereignty is the same as South Korea. China will easily set up a puppet leader in NK after Kim's regime end. Then Nobody can say anything about NK because it will still be a sovereign nation "superficially".
You are right, N. Korea is sovereign only superficially. Also qina doesn't have influence on N. Korean internal affairs as much as you want to believe, and I'm pretty sure N. Korean government is well aware of qcp's intentions.

Assuming that "qina" is China, I think the world will not make any opposition against China because no reason to oppose.
And this comes from only you and who, Ishihara?

In other words, why does the world need to think that Korean penisular should be united ? If South Korean wants to unify the North, SK should do it on its own.
Maybe you're right here, Korea doesn't need the help of any nation for this would be a spot on Korea's pride.
I would say ..... you better not calculate the benefits before you gain.
I'm pretty sure Korea is progressing...
I am not a Prime Minister of Japan, and thus I don't say I represent Japan, but from the Japanese perspctive, Generlly .... "Greater Korea" is not good as Koreans in general continue to cause troubles in Japan or aganist Japan.
United Korea is just a nightmare as troubles become double.
You mean if qina takes over then crimes in Japan would multiply twentyfold or even more :blush:
http://www.jref.com/society/foreign_crime_in_japan.shtml

In the meanwhile, I don't think I am twisted, but very realistic or logical.
IF you believe Astroboy is twisted, please explain your logic ... WHY you believe the world will support Korean re-unification, not only questioning.
I think even your countrymen would think you are not normal.

[Mycernius]

Due to flaming and insults this thread is being locked for a couple of weeks.

[JerseyBoy]

The earlier North Korea collapses, the better. Generally speaking, Koreans hate Japanese hardcore and if North Korea starts throwing some dirty bombs or other explosives to Japan, that would get really nasty.

If a missile is dropped into Japan from North Korea, there is a good possibility there could be a movement in Japan to change the constitution to make it easier to send troops overseas or bomb overseas enemies.

But, if North Korea finds a delivery method to detonate a nuke in Japan and signs an agrees with South Korea for the re-unification right after that, I wonder what that would lead to.

[Scotty P.]

People have their history, culture, and way of life to protect. Being taken over by anyone can threaten that.

Although, learning and sharing new things of this sort are ok too.

I say if they want to, fine, if they don't...don't.

If they are starving, they need to do something. Plus China has very little to gain by annexing them.

They certainly don't need NK's nukes.

[3aw]

The tax of their salaries is also high.

[mobile1]

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_325573.html

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum.

I read the post, and I would have to say that Ishihara's assumption that the South Koreans would oppose it because they hope to reunite with their family members is wrong. I say this because if North Korea becomes part of China, the South Koreans would be able to go there more easily and reunite with their family members. Sure they would no longer be "Korean" but they will be able to reunite with their families more so than if they remain North Koreans.
South Koreas would have to go to North Korea to visit. The Chinese Yuan is worth more than the North Korean won (which is as poor as Cambodia) so the standard of living will go up for the North Koreans.

The earlier North Korea collapses, the better. Generally speaking, Koreans hate Japanese hardcore and if North Korea starts throwing some dirty bombs or other explosives to Japan, that would get really nasty.
If a missile is dropped into Japan from North Korea, there is a good possibility there could be a movement in Japan to change the constitution to make it easier to send troops overseas or bomb overseas enemies.
But, if North Korea finds a delivery method to detonate a nuke in Japan and signs an agrees with South Korea for the re-unification right after that, I wonder what that would lead to.
No, it will be the British and the Americans that will be doing the fighting as usual. It will be a UN lead operation. Japan will not be doing any of the fighting, and will only be engaging in combat support.