The different uses of 'の' ('no')

[Aurura]

カナダの冬はとても寒いです。
Kanada no fuyu ha totemo samui desu.
(Canada's winter is very cold.)

I understand the use of 'no' in the above sentence, but:

私は窓側の席に座った。
Watashi ha mado gawa no seki ni suwatta.
(I sat in the seat by the window.)

Is the mindset of this sentence stucture implying a phrase like
"window-side's seat"?


右のポケットにハンカチが入っています。
Migi no poketto ni hankachi ga itteimasu.
(In the right pocket there is a hankerchief.)

And here, if 'の' must be used to say "right-pocket", does that apply to all like phrases (i.e. 'right hand' would be 'migi no te', 'the door on the left' wold be 'hidari no doa-', and so on?)


彼は会社の近くに住んでいる。
Kare ha kaisha no chikaku ni sunde iru.
(He lives near the company.)

Here as well, "company's near"? I'm not sure how to undertand the use of 'の' in this sentence.


Thanks all,
- Aurura:relief:

[Damicci]

In Japanese の is needed to not only mark possession but
Verb nominalizing
Object placement
Many various uses.
I am not a teacher so I can't explain well but:
乃 【の】 (prt) (1) (occasionally ん) (uk) indicates possessive;
(2) verb and adjective nominalizer (nominaliser);
(3) substituting for "ga" in subordinate phrases;
(4) (often ん) indicates a confident conclusion;
(5) emotional emphasis (sentence end) (fem);
(6) indicates question (sentence end); (P)

Example:
車の下に猫が寝ています。
There is a cat sleeping under the car. "Placement"

Aururaさんが日本に行くのか知りません。
I don't know if Aurura will go to Japan. (Verb Nominalizing) [Translation maybe off O_o]

「この雑誌（ざっし）はだれか！」　Who's Magazine is this?
「私のだ」 It's mine.
「雑誌などを忘れないよ」Don't forget your Magazine and things. (possession)

[nekojita]

An example of (3) is probably something like:
イギリス人のウィリアムはニューヨークにすんでいます。

[Aurura]

I tried to read that sentence, but I came up with:

"Igirisu nin no uuriamu ha kyouyouku ni sande imasu."

I feel that I must be reading this wrong. What does the sentence actually say?

[JimmySeal]

イギリス人のウィリアムはニューヨークにすんでいます。

It says
Igirisu-jin no Wiriamu (William) wa Nyu-Yo-ku (New York) ni sunde imasu.

[Aurura]

Wah~~! I get a C- on *that* one! lol :relief:

Thank you, JimmySeal san. So now, what does "Igirisu" mean?

[nekojita]

I should hope it would be easy to find in a dictionary! (The little flag below my name is a hint!)

イギリス = England. 英国 has a more formal tone to it, I think. I normally use イギリス in speech.

[Aurura]

I was thinking it meant "English", but then my brain did think of "Eigo", though I know that referes to the language rather than the nationality.

Thanks!

[Toritoribe]

の in all the OP's example sentences do NOT express possession.

カナダの冬
winter in Canada

窓側の席
the seat by the window

右のポケット
the right pocket

会社の近く
near the company

They all expresses "placement," as Damicci san mentioned.

And here, if 'の' must be used to say "right-pocket", does that apply to all like phrases (i.e. 'right hand' would be 'migi no te', 'the door on the left' wold be 'hidari no doa-', and so on?)
右 sometimes acts as an adjective. You can use 右手 as "right hand." 右ポケット as well.

3) substituting for "ga" in subordinate phrases;
e.g.
彼の住んでいる町はとても小さい。[Kare no sundeiru machi wa totemo chiisai.]
The town where he lives is very small.

An example of (3) is probably something like:
イギリス人のウィリアムはニューヨークにすんでいます。
That の is sometimes called 同格[doukaku]の「の」. The two nouns preceding and following の have a relationship "following oneはpreceding oneです."

イギリス人のウィリアム: ウィリアムはイギリス人です。[Wiriamu wa Igirisu-jin desu.]
兄の太郎[ani no Tarou]: 太郎は兄です。[Tarou wa ani desu.]

[JimmySeal]

I should hope it would be easy to find in a dictionary! (The little flag below my name is a hint!)

イギリス = England. 英国 has a more formal tone to it, I think. I normally use イギリス in speech.

イギリス means The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Let's not forget that England is only one part of your country.

[maushan3]

There is also another use to の：

の can also be used to substitute a noun when all people part in the conversation know what の is referring to exactly.

細かいのがないから僕は出しとくよ。

Same as 細かいお金がないから僕は出しとくよ。

Since you don't have any pocket change, I will pay for you.

Mauricio

[Aurura]

の in all the OP's example sentences do NOT express possession... They all expresses "placement," as Damicci san mentioned.

It takes a few times for me to really get it down, but I do understand better now. Thanks!

[Damicci]

There is also another use to の：

の can also be used to substitute a noun when all people part in the conversation know what の is referring to exactly.

細かいのがないから僕は出しとくよ。

Same as 細かいお金がないから僕は出しとくよ。

Since you don't have any pocket change, I will pay for you.

Mauricio

I am sure it's just me but wouldn't this be more
こぜに　＝Pocket change or Small change.

Also I am not sure の works here.
I thought the omitted noun had to be mentioned first.

And for "pay for/treat someone" I think you would use おごる:relief:

[undrentide]

「細かいの」 is commonly used for 小銭（こぜに）, one can understand の means お金 from the context (like when one is talking so with a purse in front of a chashier at a restaurant, for example.) :)

[ASHIKAGA]

細かいのがないから僕は出しとくよ。
Same as 細かいお金がないから僕は出しとくよ。
Since you don't have any pocket change, I will pay for you.
Mauricio

I don't mean to be anal but it should be 「細かいのがないのだったら、僕が出しとくよ。」. If you say 細かいのがないから, it sounds more like it is I, the speaker, who does not have any change rather than the other person. I hope someone can explain this from the grammatical POV.:relief:

[maushan3]

I don't mean to be anal but it should be 「細かいのがないのだったら、僕が出しとくよ。」. If you say 細かいのがないから, it sounds more like it is I, the speaker, who does not have any change rather than the other person. I hope someone can explain this from the grammatical POV.:relief:

I get exactly what you say as the speaker most probably doesn't know whether the other person doesn't have any pocket change. I just learned that in class on Monday and I copied it exactly from my book. In the conversation, it is a given that both persons know that he doesn't have any pocket change. Does it make any sense at all?:?

In another point, yes, it is better to say 小銭 but I used 細かい referring to money just to give an example of の.

Mauricio

And for "pay for/treat someone" I think you would use おごる:relief:

That's right, however, I think I didn't make myself very clear, sorry. I didn't mean that the person was going to pay and invite the meal but rather pay for the whole thing and then later the other guy pays him back.

Mauricio

[Damicci]

I wish I could spend more time learning simple context like that....
Lack of having Japanese language partners to talk with.

[ASHIKAGA]

I get exactly what you say as the speaker most probably doesn't know whether the other person doesn't have any pocket change. I just learned that in class on Monday and I copied it exactly from my book. In the conversation, it is a given that both persons know that he doesn't have any pocket change. Does it make any sense at all?:?


細かいのがないから僕は出しとくよ。

It does not make sense. The only kind of situation where this is appropriate is when You, the speaker is with someone, say, your spouse, and you've just finished having dinner with another person. Your wife tells you, "Our share of the bill is 45.50 dollars. You should give that to Mauricio plus a few dollars for the tip.". Realizing you only have a 100 dollar bill and no change, you tell her, "We don't have any small bills/change so I think I will just pay for all of us." (細かいのがないから僕が出しとくよ）. Even then, it has to be 僕が, not 僕は. If you said 僕は, that'd imply something like "I don't know about YOU but I will pay for it".

[Toritoribe]

Also I am not sure の works here.
I thought the omitted noun had to be mentioned first.
Grammatically, that の is considered a pronoun.

I get exactly what you say as the speaker most probably doesn't know whether the other person doesn't have any pocket change. I just learned that in class on Monday and I copied it exactly from my book. In the conversation, it is a given that both persons know that he doesn't have any pocket change. Does it make any sense at all?:?
Whether or not the speaker knows that the listner doesn't have any small change, the omitted subject in that clause is interpreted as "I."　When the omitted subject is the second person, the conditional form or guess form is required.
e.g.
細かいのがないなら、僕が出しとくよ。
細かいのがないみたいだから、僕が出しとくよ。

In the case of the fact 細かいのがない is obvious to them, the clause itself would be omitted in the conversation.

A: あ、細かいの持ってないや。
B: (なら/じゃあ)僕が出しとくよ。


から can be used also for the third person, the subject is basically not able to be omitted, though.

彼は細かいの持ってないから、僕が出しとくよ。


As for the second person, 君には細かいのがないから could sound somewhat offensive, something like "君に細かいのがないせいで." That's another reason why this form is hardly used.

[maushan3]

I asked my teacher today in class and she corrected me. I'm sorry, my bad.

This phrase is entirely correct but the speaker indeed was referring to himself as if saying: "I don't have any pocket change so I'll pay now and then you pay me back". I misubderstood it.

I'm still learning, haha.

Mauricio

[Toritoribe]

Even in that meaning, the subject case particle in the main clause SHOULD be が, "僕が出しとくよ," as ASHIKAGA already pointed out.
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EDIT:
Even if が is used, 細かいのがないから、僕が出しとくよ still sounds logically odd. I would say something like 細かいのがないから、(ここは僕が)一旦全部払っとくよ in that case.

[LukeSettle]

An example of (3) is probably something like:
イギリス人のウィリアムはニューヨークにすんでいます。

Ummm isn't this the appositive usage?
William, the englishman, lives in new york.

An example of #three would be
Ｎｅｋｏｊｉｔａの書いた本は知っているの？
Do you no about that book Nekojita wrote?
I know the　Ｎｅｋｏｊｉｔａの書いた本 part is correct, not sure about the rest! Im not good enough to try and make my own sentences..
:relief:

Ｅｄｉｔ：　Ｗｈｏｏｐｓ，　ｌｏｏｋｓ　ｌｉｋｅ　ｔｏｒｉｔｏｒｉｂｅサン　ａｌｒｅａｄｙ　ｓａｉｄ 　ｔｈａｔ
ごめん！