Has your attitude towards racism changed since moving to Japan?

[bakaKanadajin]

I think this topic has been well-beaten to death in certain ways so I don't want to start criticizing Japan - this topic is about people's attitudes towards themselves and others with Japan simply acting as a catalyst (or not). So that's my restriction on the topic, onegaishimasu.

If you are from a metropolitan Western city where racism is relatively scant, and moreover come from a country where minorities enjoy equal rights to those of naturalized citizens, do you find yourself even more so thankful for those conditions after having moved to and experienced life as a foreigner in Japan?

Did you possess, let's not call it prejudice, but an (albeit natural perhaps) lack of sensitivity to the stuff minorities put up with? That is to say, do you tangibly feel more of what they go through and would you now act differently towards them after you go back home? Maybe go out of your way to be a little nicer to them?

OR are you relatively unchanged through it all?

[Pachipro]

Did you possess, let's not call it prejudice, but an (albeit natural perhaps) lack of sensitivity to the stuff minorities put up with? That is to say, do you tangibly feel more of what they go through and would you now act differently towards them after you go back home? Maybe go out of your way to be a little nicer to them?
Good topic bakaKanadajin and one that should be discussed.

As a member of the "majority" in my own country I never understood what it was like to be discriminated against until I went to Japan and actually lived there as a native would and not a member of the armed forces or an elite businessman, etc. where they live and fraternize among themselves without actually experiencing what it is like to actually live there.

Sure, among the white people in my own country, there was always some prejudice or minor discrimination against other whites of a different cultural background like, Italian, Irish, Northerners, Southerners; country folk, city folk, etc. But they were never really outright discriminated against.

However, I never experienced what a true minority feels in the way of being turned down for housing, turned away from places of business or outright dislike, distrust, or suspician of you because you were white and not Japanese until I actually lived in Japan.

It opened my eyes to what African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, etc. feel when they try and make a life for themselves and move up into the better neighborhoods for a better life for themselves and their families. They were often turned down, disliked and made suspicious by the majority who disliked them because of the "they are not like us" mentality and the stereo-types that go along with them. Also, yes, it has really changed my attitude over the years in that I am much more understanding.

You can take it for what it's worth, but as the late father of one of my good African-American friends said to his son shortly after meeting me and my Japanese wife and learning of my background in Japan said, "That man knows what prejudice is." And I never mentioned to him the discrimination I experienced in Japan.

Until one actually experiences what it is truly like to be on the receiving end of racial discrimination and prejudice by living in a foreign country where you ARE the minority, one can never, and NEVER WILL, understand it even though they may pretend to.

[kusojiji]

If you are from a metropolitan Western city where racism is relatively scant,
LOL! Where's that, Atlantis?
As a member of the "majority" in my own country I never understood what it was like to be discriminated against until I went to Japan
You didn't really understand it then either.

[bakaKanadajin]

LOL! Where's that, Atlantis?

In many major cities in Western nations where people of many cultures mingle freely and rights are guaranteed, you will not find as many people overtly opposed to the obstruction of someone's human rights based on race as you will in other parts of the world. I don't think this is even arguable as it's fairly common knowledge and experience for anyone with a decent education. Your cynicism is noted, however.

You didn't really understand it then either.

Pachi can defend his own position but I'm curious as to what in the material you quoted indicates that he wouldn't understand a minority's point of view after moving abroad and accumulating a lifetime of experience as a minority in that country?

Both your comments are more like a failure to grasp common sense rather than offer a viable counter-position. If you've got great wisdom and experience that absolutely turns this topic on its head by all means, please feel free to lay it out in a clear and well-communicated format.

[kusojiji]

In many major cities in Western nations where people of many cultures mingle freely and rights are guaranteed, you will not find as many people overtly opposed to the obstruction of someone's human rights based on race as you will in other parts of the world.



Would you like to reconsider that sentence?

I'm curious as to what in the material you quoted indicates that he wouldn't understand a minority's point of view after moving abroad and accumulating a lifetime of experience as a minority in that country?


A lifetime of experience you say? Maybe you want to start by thinking about that one.

[Pachipro]

Originally Posted by Pachipro
As a member of the "majority" in my own country I never understood what it was like to be discriminated against until I went to Japan
You didn't really understand it then either.
I can't quite grasp where you are coming from kusojiji so I will quote my own last sentence so that you may read it again.
Until one actually experiences what it is truly like to be on the receiving end of racial discrimination and prejudice by living in a foreign country where you ARE the minority, one can never, and NEVER WILL, understand it even though they may pretend to.
Also, it would be helpful if you could add something to this discussion that makes a little sense rather than make useless statements with nothing to back up your point of view.

[kusojiji]

I can't quite grasp where you are coming from kusojiji so I will quote my own last sentence so that you may read it again.
.


You moved temporarily to another country, where you were recognized as having valuable skills, of your own free will and at a profit to yourself and stayed there under conditions you chose and for only as long as you wanted. Do you REALLY think that equates to what oppressed minorities experience over a lifetime? That's offensive.

[scieck]

You moved temporarily to another country...
When at the receiving end of racial discriminations I don't think it matters how many times or for how long you are discriminated against to understand exactly what it means.

The experience is the same if you have to endure it a lifetime or for a short amount of time, what changes is how you deal with it, how you cope with the frustration.

[kusojiji]

When at the receiving end of racial discriminations I don't think it matters how many times or for how long you are discriminated against to understand exactly what it means.



YOU may not think it matters (for obvious reasons), but go ask someone who has lived it for inescapable generations whether being a slightly and momentarily uncomfortable tourist is the same thing.

[Derfel]

Would you like to reconsider that sentence?

A lifetime of experience you say? Maybe you want to start by thinking about that one.

Ok, cut to the chase. What have you got to say? Apart from your one liners bereft of substance.

[kusojiji]

Hello? See post #7.

[bakaKanadajin]

You moved temporarily to another country, where you were recognized as having valuable skills, of your own free will and at a profit to yourself and stayed there under conditions you chose and for only as long as you wanted. Do you REALLY think that equates to what oppressed minorities experience over a lifetime? That's offensive.

Nice of you to join the discussion finally by saying something with a little substance.

While it's obvious that movement and migration between 1st world nations will differ greatly from movement between undeveloped/developing countries to developed ones, we are not discussing that nuance at the moment. You make a valid point - that Pachi would not know (will probably never know) what it's like to be, say, a war refugee, a politically persecuted escapee, etc.

But please note the title of the topic, we're discussing racism within the specific context of living in Japan ("...after moving to Japan") As scieck pointed out, it's irrelevant what circumstances you came to the country under, the possibility of racism still exists if you are a visible minority in that country, and this is part of what we are discussing.

[Half-n-Half]

YOU may not think it matters (for obvious reasons), but go ask someone who has lived it for inescapable generations whether being a slightly and momentarily uncomfortable tourist is the same thing.

That was not really Pachipro's point. He was saying he realizes what discrimination feels like; not that he is necessarily in the same league as an oppressed minority. Besides, you don't have to be discriminated against for "inescapable generations" to have it count as discrimination. It's not like it's a club where you have to experience so much discrimination in order to say, "Yes, I have been discriminated against and can understand how it feels."

[Pachipro]

You moved temporarily to another country, where you were recognized as having valuable skills, of your own free will and at a profit to yourself and stayed there under conditions you chose and for only as long as you wanted. Do you REALLY think that equates to what oppressed minorities experience over a lifetime? That's offensive.
My move was PEREMANENT at the time and I was NOT RECOGNIZED as having valuable skills. It was at my own free will, BUT NOT at a profit to myself. What I made of myself there I did on my own, much as many of the other members of this forum do and did from driving a truck to having a vending business and a few other occupations in between. Our success was/is made from our own sweat in trying to make it in a country where one is considered an outsider and is never truly accepted even when you are working in a field mainly staffed by Japanese nationals.

My conditions were not "as I chose" as you ignorantly state, but were the conditions of any normal Japanese person with a little discrimination thrown in for good measure as I desired to live in Japan as a native, if that was at all possible. In the long run, yes it was possible, but not without discrimination and prejudice.

And, yes, to answer your question, it very much equates to what opressed minorities (in the US I believe as that is where you state you are from) experience over a lifetime. Maybe far more so. If that is offensive to you then you have no experience of the world other than the small, narrow band of a neighborhood you live in and claim that you have experience and know what you are talking about.

How about you go to Japan and live there for a minimum of three years on your own with NO outrside help or assistance and then come back here and tell me/us at JREF that I/we are wrong and that my comments are offensive as I believe you will have a far worse experience in Japan where anti-discrimination laws are not enforced and basically nil, than in the US. I believe you would not last a year.

Most people look at their back yards as their world. Me, I prefer to look at the world as my backyard. Until you do that, you have no right to pass judgement on others.

[Proud Asian Kid]

It is not a surprise to find many Japanese ownership place such as Japanese own shop denying access over westerner since westerner crimes in Japan are very high each year especially about sexual related crimes.

[kusojiji]

Trollin' trollin' trollin'...