Question and confirmation needed

[Jericho Desu]

Hi guys, just two things have been bothering me abit so I hope some of you guys can help me out.

1: What is the difference between these two sentences?

その車のほうがこの車より大きいです。

その車はこの車より大きいです。

Both mean "That car is bigger than this one", I'm about 70% sure what is going on with the particles and so fourth, but I'm thinking I'm missing some sort of nuance maybe, if there is any.

2: あの車が小さかったら便利です。

I got this example out of a book, I know it means "If that car was small, it would be conveniant" or something to that effect, however the book doesn't explain why 小さい becomes 小さかったら instead of like 小さだったら, I tried looking around the internet and for some reason couldn't find the answer. My guess is that for い adjectives changes to the adverb with "く" and then goes up to か for かったら or something like that. Anyone to clarify please?

Thanks!

[Toritoribe]

1:
Probably there's no obvious difference between them, in my impression.

2:
My guess is that for い adjectives changes to the adverb with "く" and then goes up to か for かったら or something like that.
Very close.:cool: That's a conditional form.
The conditional ra form is formed from the past tense by simply adding ra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_verb_conjugations#Conditional_ra_form

あの車が静かだったら便利です。
(静かだ; na-adjective)

[Elizabeth]

Hi guys, just two things have been bothering me abit so I hope some of you guys can help me out.
1: What is the difference between these two sentences?
その車のほうがこの車より大きいです。
その車はこの車より大きいです。
Both mean "That car is bigger than this one", I'm about 70% sure what is going on with the particles and so fourth, but I'm thinking I'm missing some sort of nuance maybe, if there is any.
The only difference that comes to mind right off is that のほうが is (or should be) examining the differences with only two possible cars to select from. The meaning actually comes from the word ほう (方）itself which refers to 'direction' 'side' or 'way', and by implication offers a choice between two sets of options -- this way or that way, this side or that side, etc.

Whereas は is a contrastive particle, and as such, could potentially be including these two target cars from among a whole range or pool of comparisons -- this car is larger than another but smaller than all the others. 　


2: あの車が小さかったら便利です。
I got this example out of a book, I know it means "If that car was small, it would be conveniant" or something to that effect, however the book doesn't explain why 小さい becomes 小さかったら instead of like 小さだったら, I tried looking around the internet and for some reason couldn't find the answer. My guess is that for い adjectives changes to the adverb with "く" and then goes up to か for かったら or something like that. Anyone to clarify please?

Yes, that's basically right. Maybe someone else will post a conjugation chart. But だったら　is for nouns or 'na' adjectives. :relief:

[Jericho Desu]

1:
Very close.:cool: That's a conditional form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_verb_conjugations#Conditional_ra_form

あの車が静かだったら便利です。
(静かだ; na-adjective)

AHH!! Of course, 小さい had to be in it's past form for the ら conditional! My god I'm dumb... Thanks loads Toritoribe-san :cool:


The only difference that comes to mind right off is that のほうが is (or should be) examining the differences with only two possible cars to select from. The meaning actually comes from the word ほう (方）itself which refers to 'direction' 'side' or 'way', and by implication offers a choice between two sets of options -- this way or that way, this side or that side, etc.

Whereas は is a contrastive particle, and as such, could potentially be including these two target cars from among a whole range or pool of comparisons -- this car is larger than another but smaller than all the others.

I see, yes that makes sense, のほうが is more limited and concentrated between two options while は is doing it's "among all others" thing or at least could be. Awesome, thank you Elizabeth-san! :-)

[Jericho Desu]

Ok well I ran into another problem and since I already have a thread up I might as well put it in here.

What is the difference between:

駅の方へ走っていった。
and
駅の方へ走りました。

To me both mean "Ran towards the direction of the station". I got the first sentence from Tae Kim's website (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/enduring.html), trying to understand the -て form (which is very difficult btw...).

Thanks!

[undrentide]

Ok well I ran into another problem and since I already have a thread up I might as well put it in here.

What is the difference between:

駅の方へ走っていった。
and
駅の方へ走りました。

To me both mean "Ran towards the direction of the station". I got the first sentence from Tae Kim's website (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/enduring.html), trying to understand the -て form (which is very difficult btw...).

Thanks!

Without the contex, the pictures I get from the above sentences are:

駅の方へ走っていった。
I was watching someone (or something, like a car). The person ran towards the station.
(Here いった suggest the person was going away from where I was.)

駅の方へ走りました。
I ran towards the station.
Or if it is describing about a car, I'm on that particular car.

[Jericho Desu]

Without the contex, the pictures I get from the above sentences are:

駅の方へ走っていった。
I was watching someone (or something, like a car). The person ran towards the station.
(Here いった suggest the person was going away from where I was.)

駅の方へ走りました。
I ran towards the station.
Or if it is describing about a car, I'm on that particular car.

I see, so the "走っていった" might seem to suggest that something or someone else ran instead of yourself? Can it be used in regards to yourself in the right context? Sorry if that seems like a silly question.

[undrentide]

:relief:I see, so the "走っていった" might seem to suggest that something or someone else ran instead of yourself? Can it be used in regards to yourself in the right context? Sorry if that seems like a silly question.

It really depends on the context:
〜ていく and 〜てくる has a nuance to imply that something/someone is going away from the speaker or coming up the speaker, except that いく／くる literally means to go/come (In that case, it can be the speaker himself who moves.)

e.g.
私は駅に行った I went to the station.
私は駅に走って行った I went to the station, running.

彼は駅に行った He went to the station
彼は駅に走っていった He went to the station, running.
彼は駅に走っていった He ran to the station.

Hmmm, it's difficult to explain, even with some example...
I hope other members will give you better explanation.

:relief:

[Jericho Desu]

No no, that was very helpful actually, its just one of those things that are more clear within a context. Thanks! :wave:

[Jericho Desu]

Well I've resurrected this thread because I have a number of questions and I thought making another would be unnecessary. Of course I'm not expecting an answer to all of them, but I would appreciate any help.

1: 昨夜 おそく ２８歳のOLが 不倫 相手の妻を刺すという事件が起きました。
(Book translation)
"In an incident that occured late last night, a 28-year-old OL stabbed the wife of her adulterous lover."

What I want to know is how does 昨夜 おそく become "late last night", because to me it feels like the order is wrong; おそく昨夜 maybe, because to me it seems like おそく is effecting ２８歳 which I know is weird since it would be like "a late 28 year old", so I'm a bit confused.

2: オレは よく大家の手伝いを させられる。
(Book translation)
"My landlady often makes me help her."

This is more of wanting confirmation then a question, I only recently started learning the passive/causative forms so I would like to know if I've gotten this correct (taking in mind the context etc).

オレは よく大家 を手伝います。(オレは よく大家の手伝いを する = 変で しょうか :? )

I often help my landlady.

オレは よく大家の手伝いを させる。
I often make/let (someone else) help the landlady.

オレは よく大家の手伝いを される。
I often help my landlandy (to my distress).

3: 学校の近くにアパートが見付かるかもしれません。
(Book translation)
"An apartment might be found near the school."

This has bothered me for a while and I haven't found an answer yet (although I'm sure its simple) but why does 近い need to be in its く form and need に to modify アパート? My guess is that it has something to do with に being used with "permanentish" places, so does that mean you can't say "近くアパート"?

4: 元気だった仔犬が急に死んだ。
(Book translation)
"The puppy that had been healthy died suddenly."

Simple question really. Since the translation is about something we know about (THE puppy), why not use は instead of が, or is this a case of context? (Of which there is none, just an example sentence).

5: きれいな、あかいくつ。
(Book translation)
"Pretty, red shoes."

Another simple one, more confirmation. Does きれいで、あかいくつ mean basically the same thing but since its more in sequence is it like "Pretty and red shoes"?


6: ここは夏は涼しいし、冬は暖かいし、住むのに快適です。
(Book translation)
"Here it's cool in the summer, and what's more, it's warm in the winter, so it's a comfortable place to live."

I have no idea why のに is there for the last part, because so far from what I know のに is like 'even though' for example "行かないと言ったのに、行きました" so the last part doesn't make much sense to me...

Thanks a heap :relief:

[Toritoribe]

1)
If 遅い(i-adjective) is modifying the noun 28歳のOL, the form should be 遅い(e.g. 夜遅い時間). 遅く shows that it's used adverbially. You can think it as 昨夜遅くに事件が起きました. In fact, when the sentence is pronounced, we would put a pause after 遅く, like as 昨夜遅く、28歳のOLが….

2)
オレは よく大家 を手伝います。(オレは よく大家の手伝いを する = 変で しょうか :? )
I often help my landlady.
Both are correct.:cool:

オレは よく大家の手伝いを させる。
I often make/let (someone else) help the landlady.
In this case, "someoneに" is generally needed.

オレはよく弟に大家の手伝いをさせる。

オレは よく大家の手伝いを される。
I often help my landlandy (to my distress).
This is exactly 手伝いをさせられる. させられる has a nuance of "to be forced to do something against one's will."

3)
Same as #1, adverbial usage. 近くに見つかる。

4)
元気だった仔犬は急に死んだ isn't incorrect. が is more common as a description.

5)
:bravo:

6)
This の is a nominalizer. 住むのに快適(comfortable to live in) ＝ 居住に快適(comfortable for residence)

[Jericho Desu]

すごい！
Thanks loads Toritoribe! :wave:

[aardwolf]

6: ここは夏は涼しいし、冬は暖かいし、住むのに快適です 。

yeah, i wouldnt understand that if i didnt read toritoribesan's post.
トリトリベさん、これは一般的なのか？
私なら「住むのは快適です。」を使うと思うんだが・・

[Mikawa Ossan]

6)
This の is a nominalizer. 住むのに快適(comfortable to live in) ＝ 居住に快適(comfortable for residence)
Yeah, this の　is the same as こと, basically.

[Elizabeth]

1)
　
2)
Both are correct.:cool:
or why not を手伝いする？ but not too common I think, to be sure.
　
[quote]
In this case, "someoneに" is generally needed.
オレはよく弟に大家の手伝いをさせる。
This is exactly 手伝いをさせられる. させられる has a nuance of "to be forced to do something against one's will."

大家の手伝いをさせられるのが嫌いです。 seems alright, though, because the focus shifts to disliking it by anyone. When it is not necessary to identify that person (or it is clear from the context), に can be omitted.


This is how I was taught to figure the distinction (Only works with transitive verbs, of course...). :relief:

オレはよく弟に大家の手伝いをさせる。
I often *allow* my brother help the landlord ？ （弟に Let/allow）

オレはよく弟を大家の手伝いをさせる？　（弟を = Coercive causative）　
I often *make* my brother help the landlord.

[Toritoribe]

yeah, i wouldnt understand that if i didnt read toritoribesan's post.
トリトリベさん、これは一般的なのか？
私なら「住むのは快適です。」を使うと思うんだが・・
は can be used, too, but it would sound as a contrastive marker, e.g., 住むの（に）は快適（でも働くのには不向き）; "comfortable to live in (but unsuitable to work at)". Generally, に is more common.;-)

or why not を手伝いする？ but not too common I think, to be sure.
～を手伝いする is not correct. Maybe an honorific ～をお手伝いする?

When it is not necessary to identify that person (or it is clear from the context), に can be omitted.
Right. But those cases wouldn't be so many, or rather verbs tend to be omitted, not personに, imo.

ちょっと手伝ってくれないか？
じゃあ弟にさせるよ（＝手伝わせるよ）。

This is how I was taught to figure the distinction (Only works with transitive verbs, of course...). :relief:

オレはよく弟に大家の手伝いをさせる。
I often *allow* my brother help the landlord ？ （弟に Let/allow）

オレはよく弟を大家の手伝いをさせる？　（弟を = Coercive causative）　
I often *make* my brother help the landlord.
The nuance, "make" or "let/allow", would be from the context or the type of the verb. 弟を学校に行かせる, for instance, can mean both.
As for 手伝いをさせる, you can't use someoneを as a causee. に is always used.

○弟に大家の手伝いをさせる
×弟を大家の手伝いをさせる

In the case of 手伝わせる, you can use both に and を, but に would be more commonly used. を could be misinterpreted as a person who is helped.

弟を手伝わせる
I make my brother help me/someone.
or
I make someone help my brother.

I would say 弟に手伝いをさせてやる/あげる for "let/allow."

[Elizabeth]

In the case of 手伝わせる, you can use both に and を, but に would be more commonly used. を could be misinterpreted as a person who is helped.
The nuance, "make" or "let/allow", would be from the context or the type of the verb. 弟を学校に行かせる, for instance, can mean both.

弟を手伝わせる
I make my brother help me/someone.

Let's take an example next that can be easily considered both ways....

Otouto wo soto he ikaseta. (Made my brother go out?)

Otouto ni soto he ikaseta. (Allowed my brother to go out?) Or either is possible in any case ?

[undrentide]

Let's take an example next that can be easily considered both ways....

Otouto wo soto he ikaseta. (Made my brother go out?)

Otouto ni soto he ikaseta. (Allowed my brother to go out?) Or either is possible in any case ?

Whether it is to "make" or "let" someone do something cannot be decided with the particle, it is to be judged by the context.

弟を外へ行かせた otouto wo soto e ikaseta
1. Made my brother go out.
2. Let my brother go out.

１．騒いでばかりいる弟を外へ行かせた。
２．いつも妹ばかり外で遊んでいて不公平なので今日は 弟を外へ行かせた。

弟に外へ行かせた otouto ni soto e ikaseta.
It is used only in a specific situation.
For example, you need to send someone out, and decided to make younger brother go.

[Elizabeth]

Whether it is to "make" or "let" someone do something cannot be decided with the particle, it is to be judged by the context.

弟を外へ行かせた otouto wo soto e ikaseta
1. Made my brother go out.
2. Let my brother go out.

１．騒いでばかりいる弟を外へ行かせた。
２．いつも妹ばかり外で遊んでいて不公平なので今日は弟を外へ行かせた。

弟に外へ行かせた otouto ni soto e ikaseta.
It is used only in a specific situation.
For example, you need to send someone out, and decided to make younger brother go.
この度は大変お世話になりありがとうございました. :p


まあね. 普通は 教科書に出てくるようなお手本のような文ではないです
が 含まれている情報もよく間違っていますね。:(

[Jericho Desu]

YES I have returned to bother more people with some more Q&C, I would appreciate any assistance :p

1: もうすぐお客様がいらっしゃるけど、お湯沸かしてある ？
(Taken from A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Sentence Patterns by Naoko Chino)

Very simple question, why is it お湯 and not 水, I mean is this just how it is in Japanese, you have to say you have to boil "hot water" not just water? Or has this got somthing to do with the てある?

2: と思う／と思っている

This has been bothering been abit, I'm not exactly sure what the main difference is when your using these two when referring to yourself (I know you can use と思っている for other people). Is と思っている used when you've been thinking/feeling about something for a long while? For example:

女の人の皆はきれいだと思っている
I believe all women are beautiful

But と思う is used for more "recent" things?

3: 夏休みは、ニュージーランドかオーストラリアか（どこか）に行くつもりです。
(From Basic Connections by Kakuko Shoji)

In this section of the book it is explaining whether to use か or なり, it says to use か for this sentence because "it is merely a random list". How the heck is it a random? It's about countries, so wouldn't using なり be better?

4: 佐々木さんは日本に行っている。
(From Basic Connections by Kakuko Shoji)

Now the book's translation is "Mr. Sasaki has been to Japan" or "Mr. Sasaki went to Japan and is still there". So the former is saying that Mr. Sasaki has had the experience of going and being in Japan so the experience still carrys on today? Is that correct?
Thanks! :wave:

[Elizabeth]

YES I have returned to bother more people with some more Q&C, I would appreciate any assistance :p
1: もうすぐお客様がいらっしゃるけど、お湯沸かしてある？
(Taken from A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Sentence Patterns by Naoko Chino)
Very simple question, why is it お湯 and not 水, I mean is this just how it is in Japanese, you have to say you have to boil "hot water" not just water? Or has this got somthing to do with the てある?
お湯を沸かす。 It's just a culturally specific expression for boil water. And why, anyway, would you boil it cold ?



2: と思う／と思っている
This has been bothering been abit, I'm not exactly sure what the main difference is when your using these two when referring to yourself (I know you can use と思っている for other people). Is と思っている used when you've been thinking/feeling about something for a long while? For example:
女の人の皆はきれいだと思っている
I believe all women are beautiful
But と思う is used for more "recent" things?
Shouldn't that be 女の人が(は)みんな、全ての女の人、 女の人なら誰だって。。。　？

http://homepage3.nifty.com/i-yasu/Lesson-e40.htm

It's complicated....but in essence wiithout clarifying on subject, the above sentence could be a problem, misinterpreted to mean that all women consider themselves beautiful.

僕は、女の人は（が？）みんなだと思っている。seems fine, though.


I agree that seems backwards on か or なり。


佐々木さんは日本に行っている。

It means he has gone to (or at least left for) China (and is most likely still there).

http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-32288.html
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=344248

Has been to is ～にへ行ったことがあります

[Jericho Desu]

お湯を沸かす。 It's just a culturally specific expression for boil water. And why, anyway, would you boil it cold ?

Why would you boil it hot if its already hot? Thats what I didn't get, but if its an expression then thats cool with me.



Shouldn't that be 女の人が(は)みんな、全ての女の人、 女の人なら誰だって。。。　？

http://homepage3.nifty.com/i-yasu/Lesson-e40.htm

It's complicated....but in essence wiithout clarifying on subject, the above sentence could be a problem, misinterpreted to mean that all women consider themselves beautiful.


Ahh I see what I did, yeah I should have added が to make it abit clearer. Those threads cleared up a few things for me, but excluding the mistake was what I thought correct?



It means he has gone to (or at least left for) China (and is most likely still there).


China? haha

Thanks alot Elizabeth :wave:

[ASHIKAGA]

Why would you boil it hot if its already hot? Thats what I didn't get, but if its an expression then thats cool with me.

I think you should think of 沸かす here as "to prepare/make" because I have also heard people say お茶を沸かす、コーヒーを沸かす、etc.

I am not 100% sure but would it have something to do with the fact that by the time the water reaches the boiling point, it no longer is 水 but it has already turned into お湯? Is that a stretch? lol

[Toritoribe]

Why would you boil it hot if its already hot? Thats what I didn't get, but if its an expression then thats cool with me.
I agree with the hypothesis "沸かす＝to make." を might indicate to "result" (not "material") in some cases.

ご飯を炊く <--> 米を炊く
もちをつく <--> もち米をつく
クッキーを焼く <--> クッキー生地を焼く

[Elizabeth]

I think you should think of 沸かす here as "to prepare/make" because I have also heard people say お茶を沸かす、コーヒーを沸かす、etc.
I am not 100% sure but would it have something to do with the fact that by the time the water reaches the boiling point, it no longer is 水 but it has already turned into お湯? Is that a stretch? lol
I've seen it used so that お湯 basically adjusts itself to whatever temperature the user needs. :relief: Whether that means merely hot, already boiling (熱湯) for beverages, or nearer for 45 for that unforgettable, leisurely soak. lol

[Jericho Desu]

Thanks guys, I think I get the general idea even though its a little harder to understand. I would still like to know what is the real difference between と思う andと思っている, because I read that と考えている can replace
と思っている however と考える cannot replace と思う, but it didn't say why, which is real frustrating...

[GreenCat]

Thanks guys, I think I get the general idea even though its a little harder to understand. I would still like to know what is the real difference between と思う andと思っている, because I read that と考えている can replace
と思っている however と考える cannot replace と思う, but it didn't say why, which is real frustrating...

[思っている] present continuous form of verb
[と思う] present tense.

The former is used for emphasis like to express a belief or feelings unchanged.
The later makes a general statement.

These are different from [考える], both in connotations and denotations、somewhat similar too though. But when you would like to express your opinion, [考える] can substitute [と思う], slightly sounding academic or formal. The same can be said with [思っている] [考えている」、if these are used to express strong opinions.

The words are very common and each has more than one meaning.
For instance:
貴方の事をいつも思っています。 => express state of being worried and praying for someone's happiness or indicate romantic feelings.

貴方の事ばかり考えています　＝＞all the thoughts that comes up to me is always about you.(connotation wise slightly different and interpretation wise there are different options from 思う。 )

難しい事を考えている。=>Thinking about something hard
(Deliberate Contemplation or consideration )

秋の日にいつも思う事がある。(There is something that I always feel/remember/think of on...)
（To remember, feel, ideas that come up to one's mind）

So I cannot really tell you when they can be interchangeably used.

For more details, please check dictionaries.

[Elizabeth]

Thanks guys, I think I get the general idea even though its a little harder to understand. I would still like to know what is the real difference between と思う andと思っている, because I read that と考えている can replace
と思っている however と考える cannot replace と思う, but it didn't say why, which is real frustrating...
Shoji strikes again ?? Don't put yourself through that pain again if it isn't worth it in the long run! lol

Just FYI, 彼が怪しいと思う。:p


Basic Connections
この本は間違いだらけですよね。:okashii:



たとえばどんな文ですか？例文を書いてくださいね。

I looked it up in my dictionary of synonymous terms, "Kodansha's Effective Japanese Usage
Dictionary." :


omou - to think

To mentally or emotionally sense something. Omou is much more intuitive and emotional
than kangaeru. It is used to express one's emotion, will, etc., or to state an opinion. Omou is
often used at the end of a sentence expressing conjecture, hope, opinion, or argument in
order to make one's statement softer.

kangaeru - to think about; to consider

Kangaeru refers to the intellectual mental process of making judgements or forming logical
ideas based on reason or sense. There is a clear sense of attempting to reach a conclusion.
Thus, when referring to academic matters such as mathematical calcuclations, kangaeru is
used rather than omou.

[Jericho Desu]

Sorry I forgot to thank you Elizabeth but that was a big help, どうもありがとうございました！

And now ladies and gents I am here to bother you all with Q&C once again! Muahahaha...ha...help me...

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
(From All About Particles by Naoko Chino)

Now the main problem have here is when が because 'and'. I don't understand when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?


2:お花見のときは、どこへ行っても人でいっぱいだ。
"During flower-viewing time, there are crowds of people wherever you go."
(Same book)

Ok I have two questions about this sentence, 1: why is it not お花見のときには, because I thought that is what would emphasise the "during". 2: 「人でいっぱいだ」この「で」は手段の「で」ですか？


3: ジョンさんは、日本料理なら何でも食べます。
"John will eat any [kind of] Japanese food."
(Same book)

No problems understanding anything in this sentence I just want to try and say "If its Japanese food, John can eat up to any amount", or something to that effect. Is the correct way (or one of) to say this:
ジョンさんは、日本料理ならいくらでも食べます。?

Again any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks! :wave:

[Toritoribe]

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
(From All About Particles by Naoko Chino)
Now the main problem have here is when が because 'and'. I don't understand when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?
That's so-called 「は・が文」 in Japanse grammar. 頭がいい is considered to indicate a "side" or character/feature of the subject indicated by は; 谷さん.
e.g.
象は鼻が長い。
冬は日が短い。

2:お花見のときは、どこへ行っても人でいっぱいだ。
"During flower-viewing time, there are crowds of people wherever you go."
(Same book)
Ok I have two questions about this sentence, 1: why is it not お花見のときには, because I thought that is what would emphasise the "during".
Exactly. So お花見の時には has a nuance of "especially during flower-viewing time." お花見のときは is used for more general description.

2: 「人でいっぱいだ」この「で」は手段の「で」ですか？
or, materials?:relief:

水槽を海水でいっぱいにする。
悲しみで胸がいっぱいだ。

3: ジョンさんは、日本料理なら何でも食べます。
"John will eat any [kind of] Japanese food."
(Same book)
No problems understanding anything in this sentence I just want to try and say "If its Japanese food, John can eat up to any amount", or something to that effect. Is the correct way (or one of) to say this:
ジョンさんは、日本料理ならいくらでも食べます。?
:cool:
いくらでも食べられます might be more commonly used for that case.

[Elizabeth]

Sorry I forgot to thank you Elizabeth but that was a big help, どうもありがとうございました！
And now ladies and gents I am here to bother you all with Q&C once again! Muahahaha...ha...help me...

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
(From All About Particles by Naoko Chino)
Now the main problem have here is when が because 'and'. I don't understand when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?

You are talking about the second が as "and"、right ? I don't know the pattern behind it, if any, other than you definitely do just see it that way on occasion. :relief:

[GreenCat]

Sorry I forgot to thank you Elizabeth but that was a big help, どうもありがとうございました！
And now ladies and gents I am here to bother you all with Q&C once again! Muahahaha...ha...help me...

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
(From All About Particles by Naoko Chino)
Now the main problem have here is when が because 'and'. I don't understand when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?
2:お花見のときは、どこへ行っても人でいっぱいだ。
"During flower-viewing time, there are crowds of people wherever you go."
(Same book)
Ok I have two questions about this sentence, 1: why is it not お花見のときには, because I thought that is what would emphasise the "during". 2: 「人でいっぱいだ」この「で」は手段の「で」ですか？
3: ジョンさんは、日本料理なら何でも食べます。
"John will eat any [kind of] Japanese food."
(Same book)
No problems understanding anything in this sentence I just want to try and say "If its Japanese food, John can eat up to any amount", or something to that effect. Is the correct way (or one of) to say this:
ジョンさんは、日本料理ならいくらでも食べます。?
Again any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks! :wave:

I assume you are asking about connotations of those particles in contrast to others; If you are after denotations, please refer to dictionaries.

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。[/COLOR]
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?

Translation and the interpretations
I cannot quite agree with the translation above.
I think it is :
Tani is brainy but, so is Yokota.

As to the interpretations(Please note that it depends on context!!)
Could imply:
1)Tani has got a brain but that is only thing he has, when we think about it Yokota is intelligent too and ...
2)Tani is intelligent but Yokota... wonder which is better
3)Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota.(Speaker used が wrongly as a conjunction in place of それに).

谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
が marked bold is a conjunction and is often used for negation. Thus, the sentence could insinuate that the speaker is not thinking well of Tani: otherwise why he/she has to negate Tani's intelligence? There are, however, exceptions.

Exception
谷は頭がいいが、横田も悪くない。
Tani is intelligent but, Yokota is not bad too.
(Or could be used for Euphemism but let me skip those)

Lastly, in Japanese, negatives(such as not or but ) work sometimes differently from English. I always have trouble whether I should be saying yes or no because Japanese はい　and いいえ are sometimes used differently from English Yes and No.
I cannot think of an example now though, I generally rephrase to avoid confusion.

が as object identifier

1)谷さんは頭はいいが、...
（Subject omitted）
2)谷さんは頭がいいが、...
(Subject omitted)

Connotations
While with (2) the speaker at least seems to agree that Tani is intelligence and regard that as important in whatever the evaluation of him, but with (1) the speaker could be taken to disregard such as something useless or irrelivant.

The effect is probably due to the fact that after the use of は in the particular way as in (1), only negation of the previous statement can follow, while with が, sentence could be concluded without negation coming after.


2:お花見のときは、どこへ行っても人でいっぱいだ。
1: why is it not お花見のときには, because I thought that is what would emphasise the "during".
2: 「人でいっぱいだ」この「で」は手段の「で」ですか？

As to (1), you can use "には", there is not much difference form はin the given context. But stick with Toritobe-san 's advice.

If I am to be fussy and think of the times that I would use them apart, there are many cases, then one of those would be when I need to emphasise the flow of time. These are advanced stuff, however.
春には花がさく。
(It will flower in the coming spring)
春に花が咲く
（it flowers at spring）
春は花が咲く（ものだ）。
（Come spring, they/it blossoms）; To think about it, 花 in this case must be a generic or figurative expression.

Like people normally do not care whether they say on accident or by accident, we do not pay much attention when either works.

2: 「人でいっぱいだ」この「で」は手段の「で」ですか？
Explaining spatial arrangement of objects sounds like a betrer explanation to me: like filled with people/bottles or crowded with people.
Intrinsic to our brain functions and thus easy enough to understand but impossible to explain unless we know how human brain deals with spaces, objects and their relationship. It is beyond me yet.

[Jericho Desu]

Thanks ever so much guys, that has helped me out a bunch! :cool:

[Elizabeth]

Sorry I forgot to thank you Elizabeth but that was a big help, どうもありがとうございました！
And now ladies and gents I am here to bother you all with Q&C once again! Muahahaha...ha...help me...

1: 谷さんは頭がいいが、横田さんもいいです。
"Tani is intelligent, and so is Yokota."
(From All About Particles by Naoko Chino)
Now the main problem have here is when が because 'and'. I don't understand when you can use が in this manner, is it only in written Japanese or something?

You can find examples of the "ga" structure working as a connector particle in Shoji's Basic Connections.

Basically they are cases two parts of fairly disjointed or distinct ideas are joined in a way that there is no implication of contrast where "and" is normally 'soshite' 'sore ni' etc.

[Elizabeth]

Exception
谷は頭がいいが、横田も悪くない。
Tani is intelligent but, Yokota is not bad too.
(Or could be used for Euphemism but let me skip those)
Since in isolation it doesn't suggest any additional information, I suppose in English as well there may be some ambiguity between "but" or "and." But as a clear and decisive yet still subtle attempt at a conclusion to a discussion of Yokota's intelligence, the use of "and" in this case shows the speaker's resolution in coming to her defense a tinge more strongly than "but," which could still give an impression of lagging behind Tani, in my opinion.

[GreenCat]

Since in isolation it doesn't suggest any additional information, I suppose in English as well there may be some ambiguity between "but" or "and." But as a clear and decisive yet still subtle attempt at a conclusion to a discussion of Yokota's intelligence, the use of "and" in this case shows the speaker's resolution in coming to her defense a tinge more strongly than "but," which could still give an impression of lagging behind Tani, in my opinion.

Yes you are exactly right.

谷は頭がいいが、横田も悪くない。
This is an ambiguous sentence and it is meant to be so.

横田も悪くない
He is not bad, then is he good?<==No one saying he is good

谷は頭がいいが, 横田もいい。
I guess some people say like this but frankly speaking, sound a little silly.

谷は頭がいいが、横田も悪くない。
Speaker's intention is not to put down Yokota while not deny or admit that Tani is the most intelligent guy and yet the speaker clearly does not want to disagree with the person who said something like Tani is the best.

In other words, the speaker is mildly refusing to compare between the two people or to provide any onion. Certainly not everyone is capable of using language like this, at least I can't, so there are cases that people just making grammatical errors or not thinking what he/she is saying but it also could be a guise.
There is no way to tell if the speaker is even refusing to provide his/her opinion unless we dare to ask rudely that what her/his intended to say

By the way, I like reading you post Elizabeth-san, there is always a new ward to learn and it really helps my vocabulary building:D