Using から

[SnoWhite]

＿＿＿＿から、いきません。
Grammer-wise, what is wrong with りょこうがすきじゃないですから、いきません。:(

[Putrefaction]

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you can have both ja nai and desu. Desu's negative is ja arimasen, the casual being ja nai, so if I'm right on such, the sentence should be:

りょこうがすきじゃないから、いきません。

[Jericho Desu]

Actually I believe you can say じゃないです and I believe you would use は instead of が, so maybe:
りょこうはすきじゃないですから、いきません。

I'm not 100% sure though ( never am :relief: )

[Putrefaction]

Hm, I never seen that (though I'm more of a beginner than you are, haha!).

[Jericho Desu]

じゃないです is obviously more polite than じゃない, but では ありません is more formal I believe.

[ASHIKAGA]

I use ~~じゃないですから　/　~~ではないですから all the time as so many other Japanese natives do. Is it grammatically correct? I cannot say for sure to be honest.
〜〜ではありませんから does sound more "refined", and could be the "correct" way in the strictly grammatical sense, but ~~じゃないですから is so commonly used not just by young folks who don't know better but by everyone. Everyone that I know at least.

I am very interested to know if it is indeed incorrect.

[Putrefaction]

Haha, so I was way wrong and off! I didn't think you could do that...

[SnoWhite]

Thanks for all of your help! I tried りょこうがすきじゃないから、いきません and りょこうはすきじゃないですから、いきません and many others but it's still incorrect.
As for ではないですから and ではありませんから, i haven't learned the では so that shouldn't be it...

[aardwolf]

What is this for?

I would say：
Ｔｒａｖｅｌｉｎｇ(ＯＲ　ｅｑｕｉｖａｌｅｎｔ　ｐｈｒａｓｅ　ｙｏｕ　ａｒｅ　ｓｕｐｐｏｓｅｄ　ｔｏ 　ｕｓｅ．りょこう）　が／は　すきじゃないから、いきません
が／は　好きじゃないので、いきません
が／は　すきではないから、いきません
が／は　すきではないので、いきません


My guess as to whats wrong would be the です in the middle. Its okay to use じゃないです but i would only use at the end of a sentence.
But then again, I'm just as beginner as jericho and putrefaction if not worse.

[undrentide]

What is this for?

I would say：
Ｔｒａｖｅｌｉｎｇ(ＯＲ　ｅｑｕｉｖａｌｅｎｔ　ｐ� �ｒａｓｅ　ｙｏｕ　ａｒｅ　ｓｕｐｐｏｓｅｄ　ｔｏ� @ｕｓｅ．りょこう）　が／は　すきじゃないから、い� ｫません
が／は　好きじゃないので、いきません
が／は　すきではないから、いきません
が／は　すきではないので、いきません


My guess as to whats wrong would be the です in the middle. Its okay to use じゃないです but i would only use at the end of a sentence.
But then again, I'm just as beginner as jericho and putrefaction if not worse.

To me all the above three are fine, and I agree with you about です in the middle of sentence.
Normally です／ます for politeness is used only at the end of the sentence.
It might be more of a question of taste/style, but to me すきじゃないですから sounds awkward...
In this context, I feel ので sounds more appropriate than から.

[Kirakira1232]

I also believe じゃないんでしょうか　or ～ないんでしょうか is a polite way of expressing your opinion if its contrary to something thats previously said. でしょう is a more polite form of です I think.

[Putrefaction]

でしょう according to Genki I means "probably", でしょうか from Genki I means asking a question to get a person's opinion.

Its okay to use じゃないです but i would only use at the end of a sentence.
I'll definitely have to read up on this! I'm still baffled at how you can use both ja nai and desu if ja nai is the short casual of the opposite of desu.

[Elizabeth]

でしょう according to Genki I means "probably", でしょうか from Genki I means asking a question to get a person's opinion.


I'll definitely have to read up on this! I'm still baffled at how you can use both ja nai and desu if ja nai is the short casual of the opposite of desu.
Desu makes the statement less soft and more formal. Ja nai alone is friendly/casual, of course, as a basic contraction of de wa (compare to isn't/is not, etc.). Version janai = slightly more colloquial and common in conversation -- but not such a big worry in terms of sounding rough, impolite or awkward. So the combination of "janai" + desu doesn't end up incorrect at all due a mixing of the formal and informal terms.

Unstable combinations that are to be avoided as unnatural and weird sounding in most situations would be something like "Ja (highly casual) arimasen (ultra formal)"....imho. :-)


In this context, I feel ので sounds more appropriate than から.
For what it's worth, though, I find that I hear both about equally ??? :relief:

[Putrefaction]

So the combination of "janai" + desu doesn't end up incorrect at all due a mixing of the formal and informal terms.

Unstable combinations that are to be avoided as unnatural and weird sounding in most situations would be something like "Ja (highly casual) arimasen (ultra formal)"....imho.

Hmm. Can you do the mixing with more things? The ja arimasen I agree with, it sounds really weird.

[Kirakira1232]

Oh really? I find my Japanese teachers still use ja arimasen. ja I'm told is seen as spoken language whereas de wa is classed as "written" or more formal language. I've even heard things like "ja arimasen desu kedo..." where they mix both masu + desu. But I dont think I've heard a teacher end anything with "Ja arimasen desu." I dont think you can mix two formal forms at the end of the sentence perhaps?

[aardwolf]

Wooooah, i actually got something right :D

じゃありませんdoesnt sound good to me but its how they teach you to say ではない in pimsleurs, and じゃありませんですけど doesnt sound right to me at all, but i dont really know much. >< and you're in japan, so...

I think でしょう　just sounds politer because its so vague.

Is it just me or does anyone like the sound of ですけど? :relief:

[Elizabeth]

Oh really? I find my Japanese teachers still use ja arimasen. ja I'm told is seen as spoken language whereas de wa is classed as "written" or more formal language. I've even heard things like "ja arimasen desu kedo..." where they mix both masu + desu. But I dont think I've heard a teacher end anything with "Ja arimasen desu." I dont think you can mix two formal forms at the end of the sentence perhaps?

There are times to use ja arimsen for sure. From teacher to student, parent to child ?. What I meant was it is sort of "sukoshii kudaketa" -- half friendly, half serious and maybe not as clearly defined as "ja nai" or "de wa nai desu/ arimasen." "Arimasen" desu kedo as a quotative is OK in which "arimasen" was the subject of desu. But tacking on "desu" doesn't add politeness to arimasen and is not anything I've ever heard as acceptable grammatically.

Of course "arimasen deshita" is fine....


Ja nai.
Dewa nai. (written)
Ja nai desu.
Ja arimasen.
Dewa nai desu.
Dewa arimasen.

[Kirakira1232]

Oh yeah I get what you mean now. I definitely wouldnt use Ja arimasen with people i'm familiar with. I can see how its half friendly/unfriendly. I may use it with teachers though. Sometimes if I accidentally slip with ja nai or ~nai instead of arimasen/masen I tack a desu or deshou on the end to make it a bit more polite hahaha.
I was also told ~te itadakemasen deshou ka is super polite but i'm more comfortable with saying ~te itadakenai deshou ka.

[Putrefaction]

Well, I'll be damned... I forgot Genki teaches ja arimasen in the beginning, I'm so used to ja nai I forgot!

http://img191.imageshack.us/i/39426953.jpg/

Though you guys are still confusing the heck out of me with ja arimasen desu, and I'm interrupting your theorizing!

[Kirakira1232]

oh hahaha please dont take too much notice of what I say :P Just continue learning and you'll come to understand eventually :)

[Elizabeth]

I was also told ~te itadakemasen deshou ka is super polite but i'm more comfortable with saying ~te itadakenai deshou ka.
What's the background ? I know a style with some flourish like ~te itadakenai deshou ka should be taken as respectfully polite and it is okay in some situations, but you know it may be offending in others, right ? Hyper polite speech really can be sarcastic, condescending, and actually even rude, although I'm sure your teachers are totally understanding, if not used in the correct context. :blush:

[Kirakira1232]

Oh yeah I know that using polite speech with friends is a big no no lol :) This sort of keigo really is reserved for either company situations or talking with your teachers. A teacher was remarking that if his wife suddenly spoke to him in son keigo and kenjougo he would think that she is very mad with him about something.

Using ultra polite forms of speech places a certain amount of distance between the speaker and the person spoken to so I usually have to remember that casual form is more friendly and approachable but if used in the wrong situations can seem rude. Conversely keigo/kenjougo used in the wrong situations can make you seem distant and somewhat cold?

[Elizabeth]

Oh yeah I know that using polite speech with friends is a big no no lol :) This sort of keigo really is reserved for either company situations or talking with your teachers. A teacher was remarking that if his wife suddenly spoke to him in son keigo and kenjougo he would think that she is very mad with him about something.
Using ultra polite forms of speech places a certain amount of distance between the speaker and the person spoken to so I usually have to remember that casual form is more friendly and approachable but if used in the wrong situations can seem rude. Conversely keigo/kenjougo used in the wrong situations can make you seem distant and somewhat cold?
Not somewhat, it will make you sound like a student complaining about unfair treatment or protesting against something the teacher hasn't done for you if used incorrectly.


これらの話題に目をとおしていただけない（の）でしょうか for example...

Couldn't you please get around to looking over those papers (I gave you?)??? という風に感じね。


敬語はとても奥が深いですね。;-)

[Kirakira1232]

Not somewhat, it will make you sound like a student complaining about unfair treatment or protesting against something the teacher hasn't done for you if used incorrectly.
これらの話題に目をとおしていただけない（の）でしょ うか for example...
Couldn't you please get around to looking over those papers (I gave you?)??? という風に感じね。
敬語はとても奥が深いですね。;-)

あ〜！本当？そんな使い方が分からなかった！先生がす ごく丁寧を使わなくてもいいけど、ただその表現は店員 がよく使うので分からなきゃって。

[Elizabeth]

あ～！本当？そんな使い方が分からなかった！先生がすごく丁寧を使わなくてもいいけど、ただその表現は店員 がよく使うので分からなきゃって。
正確に言うと下記になります。:p

これらの話題に目をとおしていただけないのでしょうか
↑これは抗議 ( この言い方は、目を通してもらってないことに対する抗議です。)


これらの話題に目をとおしていただけないでしょうか
↑これは依頼（ＯＫです）


So, just be careful, OK ?? :wave::relief:

[Kirakira1232]

正確に言うと下記になります。:p

これらの話題に目をとおしていただけないのでしょうか
↑これは抗議 ( この言い方は、目を通してもらってないことに対する抗 議です。)


これらの話題に目をとおしていただけないでしょうか
↑これは依頼（ＯＫです）


So, just be careful, OK ?? :wave::relief:

Kashikomarimashita :blush: