islam

[abd alrahman]

Excuse me!!
Would you stop for a moment?!
O...man...Haven't you thought-one day- about yourself ?
Who has made it?
Have you seen a design which hasn't a designer ?!
Have you seen a wonderful,delicate work without a worker ?!
It's you and the whole universe!..
Who has made them all ?!!
You know who ?.. It's "ALLAH",prise be to him.
Just think for a moment.
How are you going to be after death ?!
Can you believe that this exact system of the universe and all of these great creation will end in in nothing...just after death!
Have you thought, for a second, How to save your soul from Allah's punishment?!
Haven't you thought about what is the right religion?!
Read ... and think deeply before you answer..
It is religion of Islam.
It is the religion that Mohammad-peace upon him- the last prophet, had been sent by.
It is the religion that the right Bible- which is not distorted-has preached.
Just have a look at The Bible of (Bernaba).
Don't be emstional.
Be rational and judge..
Just look..listen...compare..and then judge and say your word.
I want to say some facts about ::islamic religion
ok ....islam is fantastic religion,the drop goal is one deity idolism, god idolism,god in Arabic language is allah,and the basic of this religion are mercy , sufferance , forgivingness ,fairness and connection with god without any bulkhead..
islam is not terrorist
The prophet Mouhamad have excellent ethics ,he was beloved from people for more 1400 year and he is beloved from millions of people now,he was frank,honest,merciful and kind...
He do not lie any time,he detest the people hurting,and he admire the others..
most people feel boring for life because they missed this religion, muslims people feel happy , relieving and they do not think to committing suicide...
This religion have many of miracles keeping for ever, this miracles is located in quran (the islamic holy book) and in actions and converses of prophet Mouhamad (the last prophet).
Did you hear about (quran) and encyclopaedia of scientific incapacitation in quran

If you want to know more about islam,you need to look for islamic communities in your country or islamic websites.
I advise you visiting : (islam-guide)website

[Hezam]

Thanks abd alrahman,it's not enough to explain Islam in one page.
Anyone wants to know more about Islam i recomended him to visit this website :
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

and this is a big forum to discuss Islam:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/index.php

I advise everyone who doesn't know about Islam to visit and read the website,there several links on top of the page.

Regards

[Derfel]

I profet of Mighty Spanknwank. Deep thought must take before thinks Spanknwank, for truth says mighty Spanknwank Gad. Life deads hovevever knob live on on laterlife of holy land Wankerpolis. Land of holy Spanknwankses knowb. Dat wer ve waithfll fawk teh hell aff ta.

I could carry on with this rubbish, but thats about the jist of my 'message' here.

The op is full of bollocks and thats that. Any poster that begins a post with a teleological argument needs to be banned.

[Tsuyoiko]

A new twist on spam I guess :okashii:

[Mycernius]

What a piece of fallacious preaching, and stinks of preaching spam, but lets us take this step by step and expose what a peice of delusional BS this really is
Excuse me!!
Would you stop for a moment?!
You sound like one of those damn preachers that stop you in the street or come to my door. not a way to make yourself welcome.
O...man...Haven't you thought-one day- about yourself ?
Every now and then, but it doesn't bother me to much.
Who has made it?
Made what. please be precise. I do, however, know where this line is going.
Have you seen a design which hasn't a designer ?!
here it comes the old everything needs a designer canrad. Well if you wish to use that argument, then what made your magic man? The argument of ID says that something complex needs a designer. Your designer is therefore complex. As it is complex it stand to reason, and your own logic, that it must also have a designer
Have you seen a wonderful,delicate work without a worker ?!
See above
It's you and the whole universe!..
Myself is a product of my parents. Life on this at its current stage is a product of evolution. Life is a product of abiogenesis. The universe is a product of the big bang, which, itself, is a product of itself.
Who has made them all ?!!
No-one
You know who ?.. It's "ALLAH",prise be to him.
Please cite valid sources for this blind assertion
Just think for a moment.
How are you going to be after death ?!
I'm going to be dead. My body will rot and rturn from whence it came. Never know in another million years time the atoms that make up my body could by a million miles from this planet.
Can you believe that this exact system of the universe and all of these great creation will end in in nothing...just after death!
Current theory supports that the universe is currentl expanding and will eventually die in the heat death of the universe. This is observed, unlike a bunch of vacuous pieces of text from an illiterate desert merchant who plagurised the Quran from jewish, christian, greek and pagan beliefs.
Have you thought, for a second, How to save your soul from Allah's punishment?!
You mean your forgiving, all merciful magic man punishes people? Not very good on the forgiving and merciful part is it then. But what should I expect from a man made myth.
Haven't you thought about what is the right religion?!
I'm an atheist, I don't have a religion. I don't need one.
Read ... and think deeply before you answer..
This should be a laugh.
It is religion of Islam.
Oh surprise, surprise, you think that the true religion is islam. Firstly which islam; Shia, Sunni, Sufism, Bahai, Twelvers. Wikipedia mentions about 11 different sects, not including different schools and teachings within them.
Islamic sects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sects).
The Taliban don't even accept shia and sufis as real Islam.
Then there is the question of your culture. You where bought up in an Islamic country and culture. Naturally you have been taught that Islam is the real religion. however if you had been reaised in the Osuthern United Sates you would claim from the top of mountains that Christianity is the true religion. Same if you had been born in a Hindu culture, Hinduism would be the real religion. Your view is assertion and heavily biased. Therefore it is not a valid argument
It is the religion that Mohammad-peace upon him- the last prophet, had been sent by.
Only according to Muslims. the Bahais think it was Baha'u'llah and that god has more prophets to send. Mormons believe that it was Joseph Smith who was sent the real revelation of god. Once again your argument is not valid.
It is the religion that the right Bible- which is not distorted-has preached.
No, the quran is a badly stitched piece of nomadic ramblings of the bible, torah, talmud, greek science and pre-islamic myths that are at times inconsistant with each other, written in a tribal form of a language that wasn't standardised until about 150 years later after mohammad died. If anything the quran is more distorted than the bible.
Just have a look at The Bible of (Bernaba).
I have, plus your book of magic man myths.
Don't be emstional.
Be rational and judge..
Just look..listen...compare..and then judge and say your word.
I want to say some facts about ::islamic religion
ok ....islam is fantastic religion,the drop goal is one deity idolism, god idolism,god in Arabic language is allah,and the basic of this religion are mercy , sufferance , forgivingness ,fairness and connection with god without any bulkhead..
Mercy? and yet the quran calls for the death of non-muslims. It calls on the death of people who become apostate. Where is the forgiveness, the mercy? Only when it suits you. You are like any theist, you cherry pick the good parts and forget the bad.
islam is not terrorist
Tell that to then people who died in 9/11, the Madrid and London bombings, and the continuing killing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Poeple die because of the ideals of Islam.
(I sense no true scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman) fallacy is going to be played here)
The prophet Mouhamad have excellent ethics ,he was beloved from people for more 1400 year and he is beloved from millions of people now,he was frank,honest,merciful and kind...
Plus he was a lair, a warlord, a murderer and married a 6 year old and consummated the marriage when she was 9. He thought he spoke to an invisible magic man and nobody tought to question him. Well some did, but they were soon silenced by his band of deluded followers.
He do not lie any time,he detest the people hurting,and he admire the others..
I take it you don't include the people he and his armies slaughtered because they wouldn't bow down to his new revelation.
most people feel boring for life because they missed this religion, muslims people feel happy , relieving and they do not think to committing suicide...
Except those who do strap bombs on themselves and kill others, including fellow muslims.
This religion have many of miracles keeping for ever, this miracles is located in quran (the islamic holy book) and in actions and converses of prophet Mouhamad (the last prophet).
Blind assertions. Proper, valid, independent sources please on so called miracles.
Did you hear about (quran) and encyclopaedia of scientific incapacitation in quran
Which have been debunked and shown for BS they really are. The quran is not scientic in any way whatsoever. Any science in it comes from greek sources 700 years before Mo was even born.
If you want to know more about islam,you need to look for islamic communities in your country or islamic websites.
I advise you visiting : (islam-guide)website
And finally the spam bit. How about you do some real research and the history of your religion instead of relying on brainwashed faithheads who don't know any better. As bad as creationists using AiG as evidence for their argument.
I am waiting for real evidence, not blind assertion and fallacies that you have presented us with.






I really suspect a drive by and I doubt if we will see this member again.

[Hezam]

You sound like one of those damn preachers that stop you in the street or come to my door. not a way to make yourself welcome.
This is very rude of you,you should not welcome him if you dont want,but you was rude with a new member or guest.

Myself is a product of my parents. Life on this at its current stage is a product of evolution. Life is a product of abiogenesis. The universe is a product of the big bang, which, itself, is a product of itself.
This is what you think,but millions of people dont agree with your opinion.

No-one
like above.

Please cite valid sources for this blind assertion
Taurah,Bible,Quran and All Prophets from Adam to Mohammed Peace upon them.
If you dont belive all the books and Prophets above,can you tell us what valid sources you belive?

Current theory supports that the universe is currentl expanding and will eventually die in the heat death of the universe. This is observed, unlike a bunch of vacuous pieces of text from an illiterate desert merchant who plagurised the Quran from jewish, christian, greek and pagan beliefs.
and you still telling us that you know the Quran ?
Okay read this :

In 1929, in the California Mount Wilson observatory, an American astronomer by the name of Edwin Hubble made one of the greatest discoveries in the history of astronomy. While he observed the stars with a giant telescope, he found out that the light from them was shifted to the red end of the

spectrum and that this shift was more pronounced the further a star was from the earth.
This discovery had an electrifying effect in the world of science, because according to the recognized rules of physics, the spectra of light beams traveling towards the point of observation tend towards violet while the spectra of the light beams moving away from the point of observation tend towards red. During Hubble’s observations, the light from stars was discovered to tend towards red. This meant that they were constantly moving away from us.

Long before, Hubble made another very important discovery: Stars and galaxies moved away not only from us, but also from one another. The only conclusion that could be derived from a universe where everything moves away from everything else is that the universe constantly ‘expands’.

To better understand, the universe can be thought of as the surface of a balloon being blown up. Just as the points on the surface of a balloon move apart from each other as the balloon is inflated, so do the objects in space move apart from each other as the universe keeps expanding.

In fact, this had been theoretically discovered even earlier. Albert Einstein, who is considered the greatest scientist of the century, had concluded after the calculations he made in theoretical physics that the universe could not be static.
However, he had laid his discovery to rest simply not to conflict with the widely recognized static universe model of his time. Later on, Einstein was to identify his act as ‘the greatest mistake of his career’. Subsequently, it became definite by Hubble’s observations that the universe expands.

What importance, then, did the fact that the universe expands have on the existence of the universe? The expansion of the universe implied that if it could travel backwards in time, the universe would prove to have originated from a single point. The calculations showed that this ’single point’ that harbored all the matter of the universe should have ‘zero volume’ and ‘infinite density’. The universe had come about by the explosion of this single point with zero volume. This great explosion that marked the beginning of the universe was named the ‘Big Bang’ and the theory started to be so called.

It has to be stated that ‘zero volume’ is a theoretical expression used for de******ive purposes. Science can define the concept of ‘nothingness’, which is beyond the limits of human comprehension, only by expressing it as a point with zero volume’. In truth, ‘a point with no volume’ means ‘nothingness’. The universe has come into being from nothingness. In other words, it was created.
The Big Bang theory showed that in the beginning all the objects in the universe were of one piece and then were parted. This fact, which was revealed by the Big Bang theory was stated in the Quran 14 centuries ago, when people had a very limited knowledge about the universe; Allaah says (what means): "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" [Quran 21:30]

As stated in the verse, everything, even the ‘heavens and the earth’ that were not yet created, were created with a Big Bang out of a single point, and shaped the present universe by being parted from each other.

When we compare the statements in the verse with the Big Bang theory, we see that they fully agree with each other. However, the Big Bang was introduced as a scientific theory only in the 20th century.

The expansion of the universe is one of the most important pieces of evidence that the universe was created out of nothing. Although this fact was not discovered by science until the 20th century, Allaah has informed us of this reality in the Quran (revealed 1,400 years ago) saying (what means): " And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its expander."[Quran 51: 47]


Oh surprise, surprise,
lol i laugh when i read this.

Firstly which islam; Shia, Sunni, Sufism, Bahai, Twelvers. Wikipedia mentions about 11 different sects, not including different schools and teachings within them.
Yes and this goes to every way,every decision,every points but you know Islam started from Makkah and Quran is in Arabic,people who dont speak Arabic and who dont know what Quran means,they will make many mistakes and wrong ways...

The Taliban don't even accept shia and sufis as real Islam.
like if Taliban is the only Muslims,Did you really read Quran and Sunnah ? or you want Muslims here (Sunnah/Shia/Sufi) argue !! *Divide and conquer* !

plus your book of magic man myths.
Watch your words please!

Only according to Muslims. the Bahais think it was Baha'u'llah and that god has more prophets to send. Mormons believe that it was Joseph Smith who was sent the real revelation of god. Once again your argument is not valid.
And yours too.!

Mercy? and yet the quran calls for the death of non-muslims. It calls on the death of people who become apostate.
Really ! Oh ! OMG !! So i have to kill you then !!
While you know it's not true,why you say that then ?

the quran is a badly stitched piece of nomadic ramblings of the bible, torah, talmud, greek science and pre-islamic myths that are at times inconsistant with each other, written in a tribal form of a language that wasn't standardised until about 150 years later after mohammad died. If anything the quran is more distorted than the bible.
Funny ! very funny !! Who told you that ?
You are very far from the truth....do you think you can make a fake story and people will belive you !

Tell that to then people who died in 9/11, the Madrid and London bombings, and the continuing killing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Poeple die because of the ideals of Islam.
(I sense no true scotsman fallacy is going to be played here)
So All Muslims including me are Terrorists ?
Do you have any idea what the Quran is ? or what Islam is ?
I am disapointed to hear that from you !

Plus he was a lair, a warlord, a murderer and married a 6 year old and consummated the marriage when she was 9. He thought he spoke to an invisible magic man and nobody tought to question him. Well some did, but they were soon silenced by his band of deluded followers.
you did it again ! Who made your rules ? some demons..why dont you ask your self ( why would someone Prevent me to marry a 9 years old girl ? or we should keep silent about that !!
girls here are different,they can handle many works and they can do their work perfectly not like the western girls,they call them kids even if they are 16 years old !!
we are proud of him ( صلى الله عليه وسلم )

I take it you don't include the people he and his armies slaughtered because they wouldn't bow down to his new revelation.
Ignorant.

Except those who do strap bombs on themselves and kill others, including fellow muslims.
that's different,you know why they strap bombs on themselves since your country killed Millions of people around the world.

Blind assertions. Proper, valid, independent sources please on so called miracles.
choose your langauge :
http://www.55a.net

Which have been debunked and shown for BS they really are. The quran is not scientic in any way whatsoever. Any science in it comes from greek sources 700 years before Mo was even born.
See the link above <<

And finally the spam bit. How about you do some real research and the history of your religion instead of relying on brainwashed faithheads who don't know any better. As bad as creationists using AiG as evidence for their argument.
I am waiting for real evidence, not blind assertion and fallacies that you have presented us with.
If it's Spam you should not argue with him,just delete the thread.
for more info see the link above.

I really suspect a drive by and I doubt if we will see this member again.
But you will see me here instead.

He is mistaken,and you too.
He should post a thread to discuss it not to drop and run !!
and you made many mistakes,insult our prophet and religion like a crazy !
I dont want to talk about what the western governments did and also the people there because i have good friends here and i dont want to hurt them....

[RolandtheHeadless]

Mycernius, I'm afraid you just violated the new UN mandate against "defaming religion." http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52P60220090326

"Mercy? and yet the quran calls for the death of non-muslims. It calls on the death of people who become apostate." - Mycernius

This is a very common belief in the US: that the Quran calls for the death of unbelievers. I would like to know the truth about this, with real quotes from the Quran, as I am unfamiliar with that religious text.

[Hezam]

They misunderstand this Ayah :
You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.[Surat Al-Baqarah (Ayah 190 )]
this is one example,if you want more i can help.
The problem in the US is the ignorant,many people told me that,imagine,when i tell them my country is Yemen they say [ where in the world is Yemen ] !!!!!!!!!!!!!
or Saudi Arabia too !

[RolandtheHeadless]

Most Americans now recognize Yemen as the place where the USS Cole was bombed by terrorists. We've also heard that the people responsible were allowed to escape prison with the help of some of their jailers.

It's the Islamic terrorists who are defaming your religion, I'm afraid.

[Derfel]

Oh wait! You meant to UMN? The United Muslim Nations?

Religious defamation ahaha. How can it even be defamatory? The UN are *****s.

[Tsuyoiko]

Just to add a couple of points to Mycernius' comments.

Have you seen a design which hasn't a designer ?!

Aside from the point about who designed the designer, there is a more basic objection. Phrasing it like this begs the question, it's circular, a tautology. No, I haven't seen a design without a designer as it must have one by definition. However, I see no evidence for the claim that the universe is designed.

The prophet Mouhamad have excellent ethics ,he was beloved from people for more 1400 year and he is beloved from millions of people now,he was frank,honest,merciful and kind...

The [insert occupation here] [insert famous guy here] had excellent ethics, he was beloved by people for more than [insert number here] years and he is beloved by millions of people now, he was [insert impressive qualities here].

We can say that of many historical figures, but why's that a reason to worship them? I could make such a statement about Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Saint Francis of Assisi, Florence Nightingale, Gandhi...the list is long.

[bakaKanadajin]

Your God, Allah, is the same as the God of Christianity, as the God of Judaism, as the gods of the Egyptians, and the civilizations before them, your God is nothing more than your cultures representation of the inherent mystery physical life presented and continues to present.

If you can imagine a bunch of people holding onto the same rope, and all claiming their handful was the true handful, and that all the rest of the people were holding 'false' ropes, you'd have a good idea of how ridiculous it is to claim religious superiority.

[Hezam]

It's the Islamic terrorists who are defaming your religion, I'm afraid.
Yes,it's Al-Qaeda.

The [insert occupation here] [insert famous guy here] had excellent ethics, he was beloved by people for more than [insert number here] years and he is beloved by millions of people now, he was [insert impressive qualities here].
Yes,it's like you said,there are many people beloved by millions..etc

We can say that of many historical figures, but why's that a reason to worship them? I could make such a statement about Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Saint Francis of Assisi, Florence Nightingale, Gandhi...the list is long.
We dont worship our prophet !! we respect him as a prophet and messenger from Allah like Jesus and Moses and All the Other Prophets.

Your God, Allah, is the same as the God of Christianity, as the God of Judaism, as the gods of the Egyptians, and the civilizations before them, your God is nothing more than your cultures representation of the inherent mystery physical life presented and continues to present.
It needs along time to explain it...we worship Allah only,not prophets.

If you can imagine a bunch of people holding onto the same rope, and all claiming their handful was the true handful, and that all the rest of the people were holding 'false' ropes, you'd have a good idea of how ridiculous it is to claim religious superiority.
You can say your religion is the true but Do NOT force people to follow your religion or your way...

[Mycernius]

This is very rude of you,you should not welcome him if you dont want,but you was rude with a new member or guest.
He came on to preach a load of religious BS. To have respect he should earn it. This post doesn't earn any respect and therefore he doesn't get any.

This is what you think,but millions of people dont agree with your opinion.
It was not opinion, but sceice fact, unlike the quran and islam which dervive from faith and blind assertion.

Taurah,Bible,Quran and All Prophets from Adam to Mohammed Peace upon them.
The prophets in the torah were all jewish and wrote only for the jews. They were then hijacked by the christians when they added the NT to the OT. They also created Jesus as the Messiah and the incarnation of god itself on earth. Islam then hijacked the jews and jesus and called them all muslims prophets (honest,mthey were really muslims. Yeah, right). Plus all those books were written by ignorant desert nomads who knew nothing of the world. They do not constitute any evidence whatsoever for the existance of your sky daddy. I want real evidence from proper peer reviewed papers. unfortuantely, or rather, fortunately, bronze age scribblings asre not peer reviewed sources but blind assertion by people who didn't know any better.

If you dont belive all the books and Prophets above,can you tell us what valid sources you belive?
Peer reviewed, scientific sources. You know the ones in which people have actually studied the universe and how it works and not the blind assertions of some desert nomands.

and you still telling us that you know the Quran ?
Maybe you ought to do some real reserach oin the origins of the quran and what it is made up of rather than blindly accept what your imans tell you.

Okay read this :
:D:D:D:D
Apologist BS. Trying to fit current science into some verses that are so vague they could mean anything. If the quran is so scientific (BTW the same book that thinks that semen is formed near the kidneys, which, as I pointed out, is what the greeks thought 700 years before the quran) why has it never given us anything new in the world of science, but just happens to agree, vaguely. This same argument is used by christian fundies and is nothing new, plus the bible is 600 years older than the quran, so the bible already beats the quran on that front.

Yes and this goes to every way,every decision,every points but you know Islam started from Makkah and Quran is in Arabic,people who dont speak Arabic and who dont know what Quran means,they will make many mistakes and wrong ways...
BS. Some of these sects where started by arabic speaking people and would argue that they really know the quran and you are wrong.

like if Taliban is the only Muslims,Did you really read Quran and Sunnah ? or you want Muslims here (Sunnah/Shia/Sufi) argue !! *Divide and conquer* !
being used as an example on how islam is divided as chrisyianity and not the unified religion you would have us believe.

Watch your words please!
Why, might I hurt magic mans feelings? Poor deity, maybe it ought to grow up.:okashii:

And yours too.!
Please show how my arguments for that phrase is wrong.

Really ! Oh ! OMG !! So i have to kill you then !!
While you know it's not true,why you say that then ?
http://www.iheu.org/node/1540
http://osdir.com/ml/politics.progressive.news/2006-04/msg00009.html
http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/manussa/tr05manu.htm#ch3b
"Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, 'Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God'; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is a son of God'. Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided!..He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the Guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God be averse from it." (Sura 9:29-33).

"O Prophet! make war on the infidels and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!" (Sura 66:9).
Seems pretty clear to me.

Funny ! very funny !! Who told you that ?
You are very far from the truth....do you think you can make a fake story and people will belive you !
Reading it, comparing it, compreheding it. Study comparative religions and mythologies. Don't take your imans word on it.

So All Muslims including me are Terrorists ?
The ideals used by terrorist are islamic in nature. It is up to the majority of muslims to actively stop or distance themselves from these idiots. Something we see very little of.

you did it again ! Who made your rules ? some demons..why dont you ask your self ( why would someone Prevent me to marry a 9 years old girl ? or we should keep silent about that !!
You really believe that it is prefectly fine to marry and have sex with a 9 year old?
You are not doing yourself any favours with that comment
girls here are different,they can handle many works and they can do their work perfectly not like the western girls,they call them kids even if they are 16 years old !!
BS, they aren't even allowed to date or see men without risk of being beaten by their fathers. Women are treated like second class citizens in Sauid and many other islamic states. All done legally in the eyes of islamic law. So much for religious morals, they are sick and twisted and peverse

we are proud of him ( صلى الله عليه وسلم )
Why? Because he was a warlord that spread islam through the sword, he killed people for not following him,

Ignorant.
I think not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad#Beginnings_of_armed_conflict

that's different,you know why they strap bombs on themselves since your country killed Millions of people around the world.
I am not american, plus are you condioning suicide bombings, the killings of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? You are aware that these suicide bombers are killing innocent muslims, children, women, civilians. you are digging yourself a deep hole here.

choose your langauge :
http://www.55a.net
:D:D:D:D
I ask for evidence and you give me an apologist site. Might as well have put up a link to The Discovery institute of AiG. Full of BS, twisted facts and outright lies.
Once again , independant, verifiable sources, not apologist crap.

But you will see me here instead.
Fair enough

and you made many mistakes,insult our prophet and religion like a crazy !
I have not insulted your prophet, I read his life, his actions and draw some every obvious conclusions. the problem is that your faith and where you live make it very difficult for your to see the bad things he did. You are surrounded by people who will shun you or even worse if you dare even question his life. I am fortunate that I live in a country in which I can read various sources, from fundie muslims to apostate muslims to fundie christians who think that islam, and all other religions, are tools of the devil, and drew conclusions and make a clearand informed discision on islam and Mohammad. Believe me there is sh!t on the net that would make you spit blood if you read it about islam.
[/QUOTE]


Meanwhile for you, if your server lets you see it, and others.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/

[Derfel]

Let me just ask this, if Islam is THE religion, why the hell are Muslim countries so much behind in terms of economy (selling oil, a non-renewable form of energy doesn't amount to economy), human rights and tolerance towards all sorts of things? The forces of evil are stronger or something? Hey, if that is the case, I suggest Muslims join them too, one must be on the winning side after all.

And how about Scandinavian countries? They're about everything Islam condemns, and somehow they're probably the most advanced countries if we concentrate on the well-being of the individual.

HAIL MORAL CORRUPTION, HAIL BLASPHEMY!

[Tsuyoiko]

We dont worship our prophet !! we respect him as a prophet and messenger from Allah like Jesus and Moses and All the Other Prophets.

Semantics. You worship Mohammed in the sense that you respect, honour and pay homage to him. That's a valid use of the word worship.

[Hezam]

quick answers ( DialUp connection x_x )

Let me just ask this, if Islam is THE religion, why the hell are Muslim countries so much behind in terms of economy (selling oil, a non-renewable form of energy doesn't amount to economy), human rights and tolerance towards all sorts of things? The forces of evil are stronger or something? Hey, if that is the case, I suggest Muslims join them too, one must be on the winning side after all.

And how about Scandinavian countries? They're about everything Islam condemns, and somehow they're probably the most advanced countries if we concentrate on the well-being of the individual.

HAIL MORAL CORRUPTION, HAIL BLASPHEMY!
did you forget that the western governments have the upper hand in this age ??
they dont want us to be rich or even strong,they want to keep us rely on what they make and what they give us !

Semantics. You worship Mohammed in the sense that you respect, honour and pay homage to him. That's a valid use of the word worship.
in our language it doesnt mean "worshipping" we dont worship anyone but Allah.

Mycernius,i will answer you soon,it's Eid now ( Fiest ) ...

[Derfel]

quick answers ( DialUp connection x_x )


did you forget that the western governments have the upper hand in this age ??
they dont want us to be rich or even strong,they want to keep us rely on what they make and what they give us !


Aha. So its about governments and not Allah after all. Or do you have an explanation as to why Allah just observes as his chosen people suffer at the hands of heretics?

[Hezam]

this is nothing called "chosen people" or "Sons of God" .it's because Muslims breake some Islam laws,we was told that this case will happen,As you know or maybe you know that if any Muslim country or Especially Arabic country tried to build manufacturers like in the west & Japan,Korea...etc the western Governmets will not keep watching they will accuse them of Terrorism or Arms industry..etc
Also,as you see the Arabic Governments are American agents and Traitors.

[Derfel]

this is nothing called "chosen people" or "Sons of God" .it's because Muslims breake some Islam laws,we was told that this case will happen,As you know or maybe you know that if any Muslim country or Especially Arabic country tried to build manufacturers like in the west & Japan,Korea...etc the western Governmets will not keep watching they will accuse them of Terrorism or Arms industry..etc
Also,as you see the Arabic Governments are American agents and Traitors.


Surely, if Muslims turned all secular and started building economy coupled with human rights reform, the west would just nod. Not much else to do.

[Hezam]

mattaku ! no need to turn secular !! lol

[Hezam]

You know who ?.. It's "ALLAH",prise be to him.
you can say that for people who know who Allah is,not to Budhism or Hindo because they dont know what you are talking about ! though you confuse them instead !!!
Also,you must give proof witch people understand it not just what you belive in !
you posted this thread and disappeared without any proof and without any discussion method !!
This way you Offend Islam or anything you want to tell the others.

Actually you deserve a big ban for that.

back to Mycernius.

It was not opinion, but sceice fact, unlike the quran and islam which dervive from faith and blind assertion.
sceice is not all facts,some sceice is outlook or expectation,and Quran told us many facts proofed by Science. ( Do you need some examples ? ^^ )

The prophets in the torah were all jewish and wrote only for the jews. They were then hijacked by the christians when they added the NT to the OT. They also created Jesus as the Messiah and the incarnation of god itself on earth. Islam then hijacked the jews and jesus and called them all muslims prophets (honest,mthey were really muslims. Yeah, right). Plus all those books were written by ignorant desert nomads who knew nothing of the world. They do not constitute any evidence whatsoever for the existance of your sky daddy. I want real evidence from proper peer reviewed papers. unfortuantely, or rather, fortunately, bronze age scribblings asre not peer reviewed sources but blind assertion by people who didn't know any better.
i know Prophets were send to their people only,but Prophet Mohammed has been sent to All people,Muslim means ( Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.)
so All prophets were like this !! it doesnt mean that they have a sharia like Islam but they share the submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

Peer reviewed, scientific sources. You know the ones in which people have actually studied the universe and how it works and not the blind assertions of some desert nomands.
Can you please give me Universal facts you want me to proof.
It needs search & translation.

Maybe you ought to do some real reserach oin the origins of the quran and what it is made up of rather than blindly accept what your imans tell you.
No need for that,but though i always read and search in the other religions & Science...etc.
And Maybe you need some search in Islam and Sharia and Quran,you need to meet some Muslims to know more about Islam,not from the western websites...

Apologist BS. Trying to fit current science into some verses that are so vague they could mean anything. If the quran is so scientific (BTW the same book that thinks that semen is formed near the kidneys, which, as I pointed out, is what the greeks thought 700 years before the quran) why has it never given us anything new in the world of science, but just happens to agree, vaguely. This same argument is used by christian fundies and is nothing new, plus the bible is 600 years older than the quran, so the bible already beats the quran on that front.
lol Quran agreed with the facts wherever they came from,Bible,same,..etc.
Formative stages of the fetus has been explained in Quran Accurately..i will put it here soon.

BS. Some of these sects where started by arabic speaking people and would argue that they really know the quran and you are wrong.
Do you think the Arabic language is like english or Spanish ? it's very very Very complicated,even those who speak Arabic in streets they dont know many words because we have something called ( Naho ) and ...gosh how can i explain it !! it's like sea !! no limit ..

being used as an example on how islam is divided as chrisyianity and not the unified religion you would have us believe.
But you should go to where Islam started from ( Makkah ),we have one book.

Why, might I hurt magic mans feelings? Poor deity, maybe it ought to grow up.
Why? because it will hurt who disscuss his belives,way,personality with you !!

Please show how my arguments for that phrase is wrong.
Bahais is Bahais not Islam,they have their man,and Muhammed is Islam Prophet.
Bahais are not Muslims at all.

"Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, 'Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God'; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is a son of God'. Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided!..He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the Guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God be averse from it."
can you tell me what does this ayah means :
You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.[Surat Al-Baqarah (Ayah 190 )]
the first Ayah was in the past,in the beggining of Islam when Muslims were weak,but now we work on the second Ayah...

"O Prophet! make war on the infidels and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!" (Sura 66:9).
He did not say ( O Muslims )...
Seems pretty clear to me.
does it seem more clear now ?

Reading it, comparing it, compreheding it. Study comparative religions and mythologies. Don't take your imans word on it.
abd alrahman said the same :
Just look..listen...compare..and then judge and say your word.


The ideals used by terrorist are islamic in nature. It is up to the majority of muslims to actively stop or distance themselves from these idiots. Something we see very little of.
you conside anyone who doesnt agree with you a Terrorist and this is wrong.

You really believe that it is prefectly fine to marry and have sex with a 9 year old?
You are not doing yourself any favours with that comment
It's indeed wrong if it damage the girl or hurt her (sorry for my bad english).
In Islam it's not Halal ( not allowed ) to do anything could hurt someone or something,though we dont marry young girls...Can you make a seach please.

I will answer the rest soon..( time to back from my work ).

i will be happy to recieve any other questions but please make sure you dont hurt or insult any religion.

[Hezam]

continue ...

BS, they aren't even allowed to date or see men without risk of being beaten by their fathers. Women are treated like second class citizens in Sauid and many other islamic states. All done legally in the eyes of islamic law. So much for religious morals, they are sick and twisted and peverse
Yes No dating,but you are mistaken women are not treated like second class citizens,it's culture matter called ( Sharaf ),you can see the women who you want to marry and she can see you !! dont you know that ?
Women are not Goods,there are no bars here or women for sex,you know what...we respect women more than you do.

Why? Because he was a warlord that spread islam through the sword, he killed people for not following him,
Unfortunately,you did not read his Biography,if you did,you won't say that,you depend on what some jewish and jewChristians said about him (صلى الله عليه وسلم ).
Read this link about him:
http://www.rasoulallah.net/

I am not american, plus are you condioning suicide bombings, the killings of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? You are aware that these suicide bombers are killing innocent muslims, children, women, civilians. you are digging yourself a deep hole here.
i meant UK,your country killed millions of people around the world..do you refuse that ?
if America or UK or any country Occupied my country and if i have not any other way to defind my land i will bomb my self on the soldiers.there is a price for the freedom,no one should teach people what they should do..though those innocent muslims or not, children, women, civilians will live a Miserable live under the Occupation. ( Be more realistic ).

I ask for evidence and you give me an apologist site. Might as well have put up a link to The Discovery institute of AiG. Full of BS, twisted facts and outright lies.
Once again , independant, verifiable sources, not apologist crap.
you mean from NASA ?
Did you read the website ?

I have not insulted your prophet, I read his life, his actions and draw some every obvious conclusions. the problem is that your faith and where you live make it very difficult for your to see the bad things he did. You are surrounded by people who will shun you or even worse if you dare even question his life. I am fortunate that I live in a country in which I can read various sources, from fundie muslims to apostate muslims to fundie christians who think that islam, and all other religions, are tools of the devil, and drew conclusions and make a clearand informed discision on islam and Mohammad. Believe me there is sh!t on the net that would make you spit blood if you read it about islam.
where did you read about his life from ? link please ..

Meanwhile for you, if your server lets you see it, and others.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/
Thanks for the link,i will read it soon...

[Danny om]

I`ll keep it short and sweet. Your whole existence was made possible by science (modern medicine). You are communicating to people all over the world using various object and tools through a network made possible by science (computer, internet). You live in a house which is made possible by... er....science (houses don`t build themselves). Well you get the idea! Look, your closed circular view-point will mean that you cannot take a objective and rational look around you. Your argument was dead before you even started it. So do us a favour and stop preaching your stuff if you can`t handle your views being put under the microscope (whoops there's that science again!!!) LOL . The worst form of ignorance is aggressive ignorance.

What does science mean?

Science is a continuing effort to discover and increase human knowledge and understanding through disciplined research. Using controlled methods, scientists collect observable evidence of natural or social phenomena, record measurable data relating to the observations, and analyse this information to construct theoretical explanations of how things work.

Religion does not do this (notice how I did`nt point my finger at just Islam, they are all tools of social control)

[Emoni]

Thanks to Mycernius and Danny om for rebutting this superstitious junk. It's impossible to hold a logical argument with religion but you can at least stop it in its tracks.

Back to the real world, where I've seen no Super Cosmic Sky Daddy as of yet. If I ever do, he has some questions to answer... and I'm sure as hell not going to WORSHIP him!

[Danny om]

Hezam, you seem like a nice kid, but damn boy!!

i meant UK,your country killed millions of people around the world..do you refuse that ?
if America or UK or any country Occupied my country and if i have not any other way to defind my land i will bomb my self on the soldiers.there is a price for the freedom,no one should teach people what they should do..though those innocent muslims or not, children, women, civilians will live a Miserable live under the Occupation. ( Be more realistic ).

The French Resistance would be regarded as terrorists, no doubt about that. But truck bombs outside of market places, mosques and people queueing for work?!?

I never agreed to this filthy war (along with countless others). Cruelty be-gets cruelty.

Resistance to oppression does not come from any religious doctrine, that just creates more death, pain and suffering. It is our human spirit that will set us free.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

Martin Luther King

[Hezam]

Thanks Danny om,
Science is a continuing effort to discover and increase human knowledge and understanding through disciplined research. Using controlled methods, scientists collect observable evidence of natural or social phenomena, record measurable data relating to the observations, and analyse this information to construct theoretical explanations of how things work.
Yes,and this is what Quran orders us to do,Quran explained some facts witch proofed by Science this dyas.
Dont misunderstand Islam,it's not some belives,but also it's not a Science book but it includs Science and facts and belives and social life..etc.

Religion does not do this (notice how I did`nt point my finger at just Islam, they are all tools of social control)
I admire your polite debate and i understand your point,but in some religions the science is Forbidden but in Islam we ordered to search in the space/earth and recognize it.
I dont claim that Islam is a scientific religion but it support the science to find the truth,like NASA and Medical Labs,Inventions..etc.

But truck bombs outside of market places, mosques and people queueing for work?!?
There are crimes and people who do that should be killed or go to Prisons..
If some people missed the real goal of their religion or belives we should not called them in the name of their religion/belives.and we should not blame the whole country for few bad people.

Resistance to oppression does not come from any religious doctrine, that just creates more death, pain and suffering. It is our human spirit that will set us free.
That's true,and i want to add "Islam forbids killing women,children,and innocent people even in war"
Some idiots use their religions to reach their selfish goals.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
I agree with him,but we should hate the evil acts,crimes,all bad things,but we cant judge what is good and what is bad,so this is the hard part.

Thanks Danny om.

[Danny om]

.Your responses has proved my point. Completely in-the-box and unable to let go of the need to rely on your religious doctrine.

[Tsuyoiko]

.Your responses has proved my point. Completely in-the-box and unable to let go of the need to rely on your religious doctrine.

I don't think that's entirely fair. As a committed Muslim, Hezam is bound to view things from the standpoint of his religion, and to filter all his responses through those doctrines. But he's always willing to listen to other points of view and to explain why he thinks as he does.

Your responses (and mine!) show you are unable to let go of the need to rely on science and reason ;-)

[Danny om]

I don't think that's entirely fair. As a committed Muslim, Hezam is bound to view things from the standpoint of his religion, and to filter all his responses through those doctrines. But he's always willing to listen to other points of view and to explain why he thinks as he does.Too true! :blush: I was a little combative. We do all stand on a island of perspective. If you follow my drift. Thanks :)

[Hezam]

Hezam, you seem like a nice kid, but damn boy!!
I did not noticed that in your last reply !!!!! too bad of you !

Your responses has proved my point. Completely in-the-box and unable to let go of the need to rely on your religious doctrine.
I don't think that's entirely fair. As a committed Muslim, Hezam is bound to view things from the standpoint of his religion, and to filter all his responses through those doctrines. But he's always willing to listen to other points of view and to explain why he thinks as he does.
Like Tsuyoiko said,we have to listen to the other points of vew because if we think we are the right side or our point of view is right,this will not help,people is different and people have different points of view...
by the way Tsuyoiko-san,listenning to the other ponit of view is not against my religion so it's okay ^^.

Your responses (and mine!) show you are unable to let go of the need to rely on science and reason
We must depend on science and reason to find the truth not some stories or realigious Theory.
We have been ordered to look at the space/earth/our selves/everythings depending on science and reasons,that's what Quran ordered us,so since the first time Islam started,Muslims beggan that work.

If we made a mistake we should Admit that we did a mistake,not to refuse or Justify it.

Tsuyoiko,you are a very good example in your country...thank you.

[Danny om]

I was refering to this statement;i meant UK,your country killed millions of people around the world..do you refuse that ?
if America or UK or any country Occupied my country and if i have not any other way to defind my land i will bomb my self on the soldiers.there is a price for the freedom,no one should teach people what they should do..though those innocent muslims or not, children, women, civilians will live a Miserable live under the Occupation. ( Be more realistic ).So why are these people planting truck/car/suicide bombs in places so obviously used by ordinary people going about their daily business? As you stated;"Islam forbids killing women,children,and innocent people even in war".

Like Tsuyoiko said,we have to listen to the other points of vew because if we think we are the right side or our point of view is right,this will not help,people is different and people have different points of view...
by the way Tsuyoiko-san,listenning to the other ponit of view is not against my religion so it's okay ^^. I have listened to your point of view and I am just giving you mine.

Also;We must depend on science and reason to find the truth not some stories or realigious Theory.
We have been ordered to look at the space/earth/our selves/everythings depending on science and reasons,that's what Quran ordered us,so since the first time Islam started,Muslims beggan that work. makes no sense. Civilisation and human discovery has been around for thousands of years, WAY before any of these `modern` religions existed (do some research, if you have any doubts). Curiosity can`t be commanded, it is part of the human psyche. The questions; "How does that work?" or "what is that?" is our natural response to something new (just ask any parent or have a conversation with a child).

I don't mean or want to offend anybody with my views/belief/doctrine.....anyway PEACE:balloon:

[Tsuyoiko]

Tsuyoiko,you are a very good example in your country...thank you.

I must say the same about you :-)

[Mycernius]

you can say that for people who know who Allah is,not to Budhism or Hindo because they dont know what you are talking about ! though you confuse them instead !!!
Also,you must give proof witch people understand it not just what you belive in !
you posted this thread and disappeared without any proof and without any discussion method !!
This way you Offend Islam or anything you want to tell the others.
Actually you deserve a big ban for that.
He got his ban, for posting more BS up and preaching. A religious troll not interesting in dialogue, just to spread the word through lies and deception.

sceice is not all facts,some sceice is outlook or expectation,and Quran told us many facts proofed by Science. ( Do you need some examples ? ^^ )
Science in based on facts. Our understanding and research is based on peer reviewed papers. Unlike religion science has no agenda or bias, it just is. Religion, on the other hand, is full of half truths, interpretation, assertions and blantant lying (see Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, Harun Yahya, et al). In no way, ever, is religion or its scripture, science.
All the examples you are going to give me are from apologist sites and liars like Harun Yahya. They are just desperate attempts for the fundies to try and make their books of myths seem credible to the modern world. They fail, big time, because when properly examined from a objective way you will eralise how much BS they make up trying to fit science into scripture. Just to shop how much the Quran is not a scince book I will give you links to christian sites saying making exactly the same claim for the bible, and remember the bible predates the Quran.
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_tbiatos/ (This site just make me sick. Liars for christ)
http://creation.com/but-the-bibles-not-a-science-textbook-is-it

i know Prophets were send to their people only,but Prophet Mohammed has been sent to All people,Muslim means ( Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.)
Even if Allah did reveal itself I would never submit to such a twisted, bi-polar, whimiscal tyrant. I would much rather spend eternity in hell than kow-two to a vainglorious mad god.

so All prophets were like this !! it doesnt mean that they have a sharia like Islam but they share the submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.
The prophets didn't know any different. their world was of superstition, signs and spirits. If someone had a deformed child they would think it was an omen of some kind. I am not about to follow the words written by people who were scared of their own shadow if it fell in a wrong way or sneezed on the wrong day.

No need for that,but though i always read and search in the other religions & Science...etc.
Good, then compare and learn, do not read through the filter of islamic doctrine.

And Maybe you need some search in Islam and Sharia and Quran,you need to meet some Muslims to know more about Islam,not from the western websites...
The UK has muslims in it and I know a few. They do not always hold the same view of islam than you do. Do you know why? Because they have a greater freedom of religious expression than you do. It isn't your fault, but the country you live in. Saudi isn't famous for its freedoms, especially when it comes to other religions and more soto religions not of the Book.

But you should go to where Islam started from ( Makkah ),
I can't. I'm not a Muslim and cannot get near the Kaaba. BTW did you know that when Mohammad first started Islam they used to pray towards Jerusalem? He changed it after being kicked out of Makkah and started his war against them.

we have one book.
So what? So do other religions.

Bahais is Bahais not Islam,they have their man,and Muhammed is Islam Prophet.
Bahais are not Muslims at all.
Bahai is an off shoot of Islam. you might not like it, but facts are facts despite what the imans say. Islam was once considered a heretical sect of christianity. In Dantes' Inferno Mohammad is in hell as a false prophet.
Islam is Bahis parent religion, same as christianity and judaism are Islams and judaism is christianitys.

You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.[Surat Al-Baqarah (Ayah 190 )]
the first Ayah was in the past,in the beggining of Islam when Muslims were weak,but now we work on the second Ayah...
He did not say ( O Muslims )...
does it seem more clear now ?
I am not about to get into a "quote from the Quran to show the good/bad bits" because I know it will be a waste of time. you will continually erfuse to see the bad bits and any really nasty bits yiou will explain away with what the islamic teachers tell y9ou to do. I have seen it too many times with evangelical christians and other muslims on other sites to get into it. The only person who is capable of seeing its bad points is you, and not until you are willing to accept them.

you conside anyone who doesnt agree with you a Terrorist and this is wrong.
You don't agree with me on religion, yet I do not regard you as a terrorist.

It's indeed wrong if it damage the girl or hurt her (sorry for my bad english).
In Islam it's not Halal ( not allowed ) to do anything could hurt someone or something,though we dont marry young girls...Can you make a seach please.
Ask and thou shalt receive.
http://godbegone.blogspot.com/2007/12/forced-child-marriages-of-islam.html
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm
http://infidelsunite.typepad.com/counter_jihad/2009/07/wedding-hell-of-muslim-girls-forced-into-marriage.html

Yes No dating,but you are mistaken women are not treated like second class citizens,it's culture matter called ( Sharaf ),you can see the women who you want to marry and she can see you !! dont you know that ?
Women are not Goods,there are no bars here or women for sex,you know what...we respect women more than you do.
Bollocks. Suadi has one of the worst records for treatment of women.
This is a list of what they really have under islam
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_rights_summary.htm
and compare to how they are treated
First from our dear friends the Taliban via wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
And Saudis traetment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
Your home country, Yemen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Yemen#Women
And Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Iran
It strikes me that these countries are not good muslims. It seems that as soon as Mohammad died that muslims went back to how women were treated before the reforms of Mohammad, in other words like property.

Unfortunately,you did not read his Biography,if you did,you won't say that,you depend on what some jewish and jewChristians said about him (صلى الله عليه وسلم ).
I have read serveral books and articles about him, including Islamic sources, some from ex-muslims. The conclusions can be easily drawn.

you mean from NASA ?
No, from peer reviewed sources.
Did you read the website ?
Yes, and it made me laugh and cry. It was bull of apologist BS. facts are one thing it doesn't have.

where did you read about his life from ? link please ..
Several books and articles online. The main one rom Karen Armstrongs Muhammad, and she is quite nice about him.