Transsexual Jesus

[Tsuyoiko]

Christian protesters gathered outside a Glasgow theatre today to protest against a play in which Jesus is portrayed as a transsexual.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8342056.stm

I think art should be controversial. It should aim to do something that hasn't been done before, it should provoke an emotional response and it should make people question their preconceptions. I think this play is true art.

I also think the producers must have realised that Christians would be offended; perhaps they anticipated the publicity resulting from any protest.

The most offensive thing to me personally about the whole story is one of the protesters' banners, which reads: "God: My Son Is Not A Pervert." It shows total ignorance of what a transsexual is, which is the worst kind of prejudice.

What do you think about this story?

[Emoni]

Guesses about what a person who may or may have not existed (this has not been proven), let alone that he was a magical super-being and son of a sky-daddy, doesn't mean anything to me, and I find it hilarious that it does to others who seem to believe that they have some ownership as to what is truth and what is not based on nothing but faith/blind assumption/wishing really hard for something to be true.

[Half-n-Half]

I never understood why people feel the need to defend Jesus's image. Can he not do it himself? Is he so inadequate that he requires his followers to do it for him? Is it even marginally important to a great being such as him?

The quote that really bothered me was, "You can't blaspheme God and use freedom of speech as an excuse for that." Well, sorry, but yes I can. That statement wouldn't make any sense in any context outside of God. "You can't make fun of me and use freedom of speech as an excuse for that (and if you do I'll torture you for eternity)." Is God some angry child that has a temper tantrum anytime someone calls him names or, in this case, portray him as a transsexual? If I can shrug off people calling me names and think nothing of it (and certainly not get the urge to punish that person) why can't almighty God do the same? In his overflowing compassion and words of wisdom such as:

"But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:44,45)

why is God not held to the same standard? I never understood blasphemy being a sin, but then again there isn't much in Christianity I do understand.

[Tsuyoiko]

Assuming for argument's sake that Jesus was a real person, I agree with Half-n-Half's comments about tolerance. I fully expect Christians to be offended by this play, and I support their right to protest against it. However, I'm disappointed, if not surprised, that some of the messages on their banners show ignorance and intolerance.

[Hezam]

First,i belive that Jeusu is a great & respectable prophet and of course he have existed.
the problem is that some people wrote fake stories about him,also those who followed wrong/different way than Jesus's,they confused people who belive in Jesus.So as you see people in this days refused the Church mostly.
I dont understand why some people make fun/jokes of Jesus ! what's the need to it ?
i heared about movie showing Jesus doing sex !!!
on top of that,why the Vatican keep silent !!
even if the time passed,fact is fact,Jesus is existed...
For money they make fun about a great prson ! how nasty.

[Tsuyoiko]

For money they make fun about a great prson ! how nasty.

Like you, I think that Jesus existed, and that he was a great person. My gut reaction was also disgust, but when I read on I overcame it. I don't think this play makes fun of Jesus.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6903784.ece
This article goes into a bit more depth about the playwright's intentions. The play puts Jesus into a modern context that has meaning for the playwright and for the intended audience. Would this play be offensive if Jesus had been portrayed as a black man in 1960s US, or as a religious extremist in the Roman Middle East? ;-)

Having said that, I think it's a bit rich for the playwright to be offended by the protest. She had to have realised that Christians would take offense, and by staging the play in public, she is inviting criticism.

[Hezam]

But what i really dont understnd is why does this woman targeted Jesus ??
Christians & Muslims are the most people in the earth and both respect Jesus.
She risks her life by doing that !! that's weird..that's idiocy !!
There are things people must respect.
Freedom doesnt include such acts like that...
lol how crazy world ! one woman offended %60 or %70 of poeple ...that remind me the Danish who painted Prophet Mohammed !

[RolandtheHeadless]

So how many Christian leaders have called for the murder of the producers and directors of this play?

[pedroami]

Guesses about what a person who may or may have not existed (this has not been proven), let alone that he was a magical super-being and son of a sky-daddy, doesn't mean anything to me, and I find it hilarious that it does to others who seem to believe that they have some ownership as to what is truth and what is not based on nothing but faith/blind assumption/wishing really hard for something to be true.

I never understood why people feel the need to defend Jesus's image. Can he not do it himself? Is he so inadequate that he requires his followers to do it for him? Is it even marginally important to a great being such as him?

First off, the reason why people would defend such an 'entity', 'person' or even 'belief' is irrelevant to the fact that this target is 'Jesus'. I find it to be human nature to defend the reputation that someone holds to high regard. Say for instance, someone important to you - a love of yours, your best friend, a family member, was portrayed in a way that insulted the way you looked at them, of course it would be natural, and no surprise, if you threw a fit about it. Even for views and opinions, favorite movies or music, if anyone attacks something that's important to you then this is the common reaction.

It so happens for these people that they hold their religion/faith to very high regards to them. Why this is is up to each individual, and you can criticize them for believing in their religion if that's what really bothers you. But when it comes to misunderstanding 'why' they would do such a thing, I think its easy to understand when you put yourselves in their own shoes with your own personal situation. That's all-

[Tsuyoiko]

But what i really dont understnd is why does this woman targeted Jesus ??

I think because she's a Christian, so she wanted to explore how her faith interacted with her transsexuality.

First off, the reason why people would defend such an 'entity', 'person' or even 'belief' is irrelevant to the fact that this target is 'Jesus'. I find it to be human nature to defend the reputation that someone holds to high regard. Say for instance, someone important to you - a love of yours, your best friend, a family member, was portrayed in a way that insulted the way you looked at them, of course it would be natural, and no surprise, if you threw a fit about it. Even for views and opinions, favorite movies or music, if anyone attacks something that's important to you then this is the common reaction.

I completely agree that it's unsurprising for Christians to be offended. But it's not clear why it's insulting to portray Jesus as a transsexual. This seems to imply that there's something unacceptable about being a transsexual.

[Derfel]

First,i belive that Jeusu is a great & respectable prophet and of course he have existed.
the problem is that some people wrote fake stories about him,also those who followed wrong/different way than Jesus's,they confused people who belive in Jesus.So as you see people in this days refused the Church mostly.
I dont understand why some people make fun/jokes of Jesus ! what's the need to it ?
i heared about movie showing Jesus doing sex !!!
on top of that,why the Vatican keep silent !!
even if the time passed,fact is fact,Jesus is existed...
For money they make fun about a great prson ! how nasty.

This is not a matter of whether you believe in the existence of Jesus, or his greatness. We do not all believe in his greatness or existence. If you view it from your, or any other individual's point of view, you will struggle to understand the issue in the correct light.

Have you heard of dead baby jokes? They're terrible according to the majority of people, but they're also terribly funny to some people. The play was meant for those who enjoy it, and it also happens to be a trap for those who just have to get involved in matters they've nothing to do with.

Why not make fun of a great person? Does being a great person entitle one to have a shield from all literary abuse? Bollocks.

But what i really dont understnd is why does this woman targeted Jesus ??
Christians & Muslims are the most people in the earth and both respect Jesus.
She risks her life by doing that !! that's weird..that's idiocy !!
There are things people must respect.
Freedom doesnt include such acts like that...
lol how crazy world ! one woman offended %60 or %70 of poeple ...that remind me the Danish who painted Prophet Mohammed !

Why not make fun of Jesus? It's fun, and the reaction is pretty damn hilarious as well.

Christians and Muslims do not enjoy protection from being offended, or anyone else for that matter. And surely, you do notice the bbc.co.uk domain, right? Well, guess what, freedom includes such acts in Scotland. Not so much in England, ever since religious hatred legislation had been passed, but not in Scotland. Frankly, I would amend the legislation in England if it was within my powers. Freedom of speech is a right one holds against the whole world, and if it is 60%-70% of the population of the planet, it shall make no difference.

[RavenRockstar]

I understand why they would be offended, but do they have to form an angry mob to do so?

Have you heard of dead baby jokes? They're terrible according to the majority of people, but they're also terribly funny to some people.
*is a person who finds dead baby jokes hilarious* :blush:

[bakaKanadajin]

"You can't blaspheme God and use freedom of speech as an excuse for that."

Sure I can, I can call God a bloody ********** if I want.
Who the heck do these people think they are?
Christian fundamentalists who are willing to burn the constitution at the expense of their sacred god's image are just as bad as extremists strapping bombs on babies or any other ***-backward group doing any other number or ridiculous things. Makes me sick. I can respect someone with a personal and quietly celebrated religion, hey I myself believe in a god of some kind and expect to not have that view trampled, but my right to believe doesn't supercede anyone elses right not to.

Even more amusing, most people can't even accept the idea that Jesus wasn't white, despite the fact he most likely wasn't. I mean if you can't even accept your God for who he really was what the heck is the point, what is it you're actually protecting?

[Hezam]

"You can't blaspheme God and use freedom of speech as an excuse for that."

Sure I can, I can call God a bloody ********** if I want.
Who the heck do these people think they are?
It depends on what your/my/his God is,and what that God orders poeple to do (Good or Evil acts) so from this point we can judge the God.

Christian fundamentalists who are willing to burn the constitution at the expense of their sacred god's image are just as bad as extremists strapping bombs on babies or any other ***-backward group doing any other number or ridiculous things. Makes me sick. I can respect someone with a personal and quietly celebrated religion, hey I myself believe in a god of some kind and expect to not have that view trampled, but my right to believe doesn't supercede anyone elses right not to.
I completly agree with that,not only Christians,this goes on all religions/Belives.

Even more amusing, most people can't even accept the idea that Jesus wasn't white, despite the fact he most likely wasn't. I mean if you can't even accept your God for who he really was what the heck is the point, what is it you're actually protecting?
Is that true ? are there Christians who dont belive that Jesus was not white ?

[Emoni]

It depends on what your/my/his God is,and what that God orders poeple to do (Good or Evil acts)

I do have to add, that I find it insane that people can take offense to questioning, mocking, or doubting the concept of an invisible super daddy in the sky as if they OWN the very right to the entire intellectual property of the idea.

[Hezam]

I do have to add, that I find it insane that people can take offense to questioning, mocking, or doubting the concept of an invisible super daddy in the sky as if they OWN the very right to the entire intellectual property of the idea.
Anyone has the right to question/doubt in a polite way But not mocking,it's natural to take offense when you see some poeple making fun of your God/Idol/belives.
someone's belives are part of him...so i dont like to see someone making fun of me.^^

[bakaKanadajin]

Anyone has the right to question/doubt in a polite way But not mocking,it's natural to take offense when you see some poeple making fun of your God/Idol/belives.
someone's belives are part of him...so i dont like to see someone making fun of me.^^

Mocking is also acceptable. Anything short of hate-speech is acceptable because the first and foremost inalienable right is the right to speak. If we have to tip-toe around our words to prevent insult to every religious group in the world we have lost what makes us human.

By the way, wasn't it Jesus himself who taught us to turn the other cheek? Christians should just smugly say to themselves 'those people are going to hell, I'm going to heaven', and be happy with their views and MOVE ON.

If the hardcore Christians ahd their way we never woulda had Monty Python for crying out loud.

[nice gaijin]

Everybody has a view or belief or opinion that is ridiculous to someone else; we can't spend our lives insulated from the views of others, because the expression of those views, however ridiculous, should teach us something about our own views and lens through which we see the world. If we can't learn anything from other people (especially those with whom we disagree), we've failed to grow as human beings.

Getting upset about a depiction of a transgender Jesus is a predictable reaction. Has anyone learned anything from it?

If the hardcore Christians ahd their way we never woulda had Monty Python for crying out loud.How timely, I'm going to see John Cleese tonight.

[Tsuyoiko]

Anyone has the right to question/doubt in a polite way But not mocking,it's natural to take offense when you see some poeple making fun of your God/Idol/belives.
someone's belives are part of him...so i dont like to see someone making fun of me.^^
Mocking is also acceptable. Anything short of hate-speech is acceptable because the first and foremost inalienable right is the right to speak. If we have to tip-toe around our words to prevent insult to every religious group in the world we have lost what makes us human.

Taking offense when someone mocks your beliefs is understandable, and I think it's mean-spirited and unkind to mock people's beliefs with no regard for their feelings. However, it's also unfair to take offense without taking the time to examine what a person is trying to say when you think they've mocked your beliefs. Just because you're offended doesn't mean that the intention was to offend you.

Jo Clifford isn't mocking Jesus or Christian beliefs in this play. She's exploring how Jesus' teachings might relate in a particular modern-day setting. Why is it offensive to depict Jesus as a contemporary minority figure?

[Kinsao]

Well I'm a 'Christian' in a manner of speaking ;-) but I'm not offended by this play portraying Jesus as a transsexual.

To me it's more like a 'what if' sort of situation. A play is clearly meant to be work of art and fiction, not fact, so it is not disruptive to anyone's belief system in the same way it would be if, for example, someone found evidence from the past that showed that Jesus *was* a transsexual. (And even in the latter case, how much difference would it make? The teachings remain the same.)

I've not seen the play, but imagine that it can be a 'what if Jesus was a transsexual?' question to challenge our beliefs and think 'if so, what differences would it make, and why?' and examine our own thoughts, attitudes etc. especially towards transsexual people.

I appreciate that there may not be enough evidence to prove that Jesus was a real historical figure (quite apart from my own personal beliefs), but I can only liken it to 'General Custer as a transsexual' or 'Queen Victoria as a transsexual' - i.e. not really that significant, but an interesting basis for a play!

[nice gaijin]

FYI, this type of adaptation is called "theming." I had the opportunity to listen in on a conversation between my brother, who is an actor, and one of his peers over the merits of this methodology in writing plays. One thing they said was that
Themes, like 'Romeo and Juliet' as blacks versus whites--or Puerto Ricans vs. Whites as in West Side Story, or 'Modern day' in the diCaprio film version--are usually nothing more than a clever gimmick: you can appreciate the theme, but it detracts from the play itself.
Having not seen the play we're talking about here I can't say for sure whether depicting Jesus as a transgender person would bring new insight to the character, but at the very least it's an interesting theme.

I completely agree that it's unsurprising for Christians to be offended. But it's not clear why it's insulting to portray Jesus as a transsexual. This seems to imply that there's something unacceptable about being a transsexual. I just wanted to restate this because I think this is the key point to this discussion. Some have said that this play "targets" or "makes fun" of Jesus, but is that really the intention or what is going on here, or is the Christian view of transgender people so skewed that they see any depiction of them as something insulting or to be pitied?