Why does Japan suck so much?

[senseiman]

What do you think is the suckiest thing about Japan?

I just got back from a trip to Takamatsu, and it has got me into one of my "I want to trash talk Japan" moods, so I don't necessarily mean for this thread to be taken seriously. Just a way to let off steam.

The reason my trip got me into such a mood relates to what I think to be the suckiest thing about Japan. The tourist brochures for Kagawa prefecture paint the picture of a beautiful quiet seaside prefecture full of pretty shrines and nice mountains. As with every other tourist brochure I've read in Japan, it is complete bulls--t. Maybe 50 years ago that description would have fit, but today the prefecture is wall to wall factories, pachinko parlors, massive concrete public works projects and polluted, ugly waterways. The mountains are being levelled in order to make landfill for land reclamation projects that will, in turn, destroy what little remains of the natural waterfront. In any event, you couldn't see the mountains even if they weren't being systematically destroyed, because all the factories, high rise apartments, big box stores and pachinko parlors totally obscure the view.

The whole place is a complete travesty and yet the only thing I could think of was "well at least its not as bad as where I live." Which is true, my town has all the same crap, only more of it. It is so depressing to think that such a twisted ugly place would actually be a releif from the much more severe twisted ugly place that I live in.

That is what I think is the suckiest thing about Japan. Anyone else?

[den4]

Suckiness is in the eye of the beholder.....

I don't care for all the industrialness of Tokyo, but I know several million peepo live there out of preference, too.... :D
Well, a few million would live elsewhere, I know, if they had a choice....but it's all a matter of perspective.... LOL

What I disliked in Japan were the bicycle brakes that squealed alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllll the way down the hills...and are designed to squeal, according to one Bridgestone engineer that designs bike brakes.... :(

[Tiger]

Why does senseiman suck so much?

Perhaps this would also make an interesting debate.

Sure you say "don't take this thread too seriously" - but if you read your threads, all you ever seem to do is trash Japan. Your tone and the way you phrase things is frequently rude and insensitive, and hiding behind "humor" or "letting off steam" is no defense, especially if you offend people in the process.

Perhaps you could learn a little tact, sensitivity and maturity in future and not just fire off comment after comment about everything you hate about Japan. I'm sure you'd soon get pissed if all I did was write about how much I dislike your home country (wherever it is). If you dislike it so much, why the hell are you even here?

Tiger

[budd]

hahaha, i watched nie under 7 this weekend too...

[noyhauser]

Well Im sure this is going to start a flame war, but I think I need to say this.

Sometimes people have different opinions to yourself Tiger. I will be the first to say that I don't always agree with Senseiman, and I have had some viscious debates with him on a variety of subjects. But he does raise some valid points about japan and japanese culture that may be painful to hear but must be said none the less. Although I'd disagree with him about Kyoto being a concrete jungle the rest of Japan is, and saying that it isn''t a lie. There is a cultural aloofness in japan that disturbs me some times. Reading Ken Umerdruia's posts (http://forum.japanreference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=861) make me sick to my stomach, not because they prove me wrong, but because I cannot believe that a person is able to hold such completely purposterous views about history. I will say that there are great parts to Japan, I am the last child of my Japanese side of the family and I take my responsibilities seriously as carrying on their name. There are parts of Japan that I do love very much, but there are ugly sides of it as well. The same goes for the country of my birth and Senseiman's, Canada. And you know what? Senseiman has said somethings about Canada's less attractive attributes, and they too are true.

If you can't stand hearing bad things about japan, I suggest you try to argue his point rather than attacking him as a person. Get used to the fact that Japan isn't a perfect place in this world, because no place is.

[budd]

some people sure do complain a lot though too :)
i myself have a vendetta with Japanese dryers, but i'm trying to overcome it through better wardrobe planning

[senseiman]

Relax, Tiger. Didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. Perhaps a thread about how much I suck would be interesting, I freely admit that I suck a lot.

For the record, not all of my posts have been derogative of Japan. I did start the 'worst tourist attractions in Japan' thread, which was mostly meant to be funny. But I also balanced it with a 'best tourist attractions in Japan' thread where I tried to get people talking about the nicer things in Japan.

I suppose on balance though, the majority of what I've written here has been critical of Japan. I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive, I just find that using more direct language makes for more interesting debates. If I had made the title of this thread "Things about Japan that are not quite perfect", it would have been more polite but no one would have read it.

At any rate, if you'd care to direct my attention to which of my posts you find most objectionable, I'd be happy to discuss them with you. Despite my sometimes abrassive manner, I'm not just flinging around wild, false allegations here, I stand by everything that I have written.

As Noyhauser points out, I'm equally willing to 'talk trash' about my home country, Canada. I call a spade a spade. If I don't like something, then I'll talk about it. Perhaps I stress the negative here because in real life I can't really talk about these issues because I don't want to offend anyone. This is an English message board frequented mainly by non-Japanese who (with the exception of you) generally aren't offended by criticism of Japan.

And for the record, I don't hate Japan. I've lived here for several years and am married to a Japanese. Japan has a fascinating and ancient culture with which my newbie home country pales in comparison. But I do hate the fact that Japan's culture goes almost completely unappreciated in the modern Japanese world. Just yesterday I was in Nara, which is my favorite city in Japan. One thing I like about Nara is its station, which is a quaint little historical building that is designed to somewhat resemble a temple. Compared to Kyoto's massive steel and glass station, I've always felt that Nara's was much more welcoming and had a lot of character. But when I went yesterday, I was almost moved to tears to find that Nara station was in the process of being demolished. This lovely old building being wiped out because some city politician was embarrased by how old it was. I think that really sucks, and I'm sure not going to apologize to you for thinking that way.

[CGPGroup]

well maybe you need to take a trip to Jamaica, that should relieve your stress.

[senseiman]

Jamaica? Sounds cool, I probably do need a break!

[Uncle Frank]

People who hold all the things that upset them inside and never complain end up going on shooting sprees like irate postal workers.

Frank

[Tiger]

My main points were fairly simple.

If my friend needed to lose a few pounds and asked me if I thought he/she was overweight, I wouldn't say "Why the heck are you so fat?". I'd choose something will a little more tact

Ditto the title of this thread.

Furthermore, trashing one's own country or culture bears absolutely no relation to trashing someone elses. In the same way, that's why Jewish people can tell Jewish jokes, black people can make jokes about black culture etc. but if you're not in that segment of the population it's considered offensive. When you start to talk about someone elses culture or nation, it helps to at least have a little respect.

Finally, I didn't at any time say I disagreed with the point senseiman was making. I totally accept that people have differing views about Japan, large parts of which are indeed not particularly attractive. The issue was about the tone of the commentary (and if I may say so, the general tone of a number of other comments he has made), not its overall content.

In a nutshell, I guess maybe I value eloquent and intelligently considered arguments over blunt and rather obtuse "it's crap" style postings. Anyone can say something is crap. But then everyone's entitled to their opinion at the end of the day.

Tiger

[Swifty]

In the Words of a Great Man I knew a while back

:clap: :victory: :clap: LOVE AND PEACE!!!!! :clap: :victory: :clap:

Vash The Stampede ^_^

Relax guys

this is becoming a bigger issue then it needs to be

so just chill

:p

[budd]

it's good to have a dialogue about it though
edit: and that IS a really insulting topic title regardless

[Yoshihara]

The bottom line is: __________________________________________________ __________

yep, just like that. :)


We all have our own minds, think differently, and have different motivations. If everyone were alike, it would be boring. I like the differences and encourage opinions. Plus, it gives you a chance to see if you can overwhelm someone and win with your point of view.....heh heh heh.

Love, peace, and soul!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noyhauser]

Originally posted by Tiger
My main points were fairly simple.

If my friend needed to lose a few pounds and asked me if I thought he/she was overweight, I wouldn't say "Why the heck are you so fat?". I'd choose something will a little more tact



This is a country not a person. People won't read something that goes against their views unless it is incisive enough to get their attention by pissing them off. Unfortunately it seems that you didn't even bother reading his article, rather just took exception to his tone.

Originally posted by Tiger


Ditto the title of this thread.

Furthermore, trashing one's own country or culture bears absolutely no relation to trashing someone elses. In the same way, that's why Jewish people can tell Jewish jokes, black people can make jokes about black culture etc. but if you're not in that segment of the population it's considered offensive. When you start to talk about someone elses culture or nation, it helps to at least have a little respect.

Finally, I didn't at any time say I disagreed with the point senseiman was making. I totally accept that people have differing views about Japan, large parts of which are indeed not particularly attractive. The issue was about the tone of the commentary (and if I may say so, the general tone of a number of other comments he has made), not its overall content.

In a nutshell, I guess maybe I value eloquent and intelligently considered arguments over blunt and rather obtuse "it's crap" style postings. Anyone can say something is crap. But then everyone's entitled to their opinion at the end of the day.

Tiger

I think Senesiman has full licence to argue with the features of Japan. He's lived there for quite a significant time and is by no means a outsider looking in. And if you say he an outsider then you prove some of the worst parts of Japanese culture, Xenophobia. what he is saying is the truth. This isn't a guy who just walked off a plane and said you guys are backwards. He has assimilated into your culture, even marrying a Japanese woman and then criticized it.

And talking about eloquence, Senseiman has a load of it. I'd have problems if he just said it was crap and not backed it up. But if you read, he put nearly 400 words of why he thought Japan sucks. To be honest I thought his two posts here were far more eloquent than your ranting why his original post was off. Maybe he could of chosen a little less contraversial topic headline, sure, but he backed it up and he has a full right to his opinion.

[ghettocities]

;)







Because I wash "DOWN THERE." That's why.


Josh

http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com

[senseiman]

Tiger-

You are totally misconstruing what I wrote. At no point in this or any other thread have I attacked Japanese culture. I think my original post made it quite clear that I was criticizing certain aspects of modern Japan (environmental degradation and urban sprawl) that have nothing to do with culture. I would never criticize something that was based on a cultural difference like, say the practice of taking off of shoes before entering a house because of course that would be childish. But most Japanese would probably agree that the lack of a clean environment is a major problem and that it does suck. That is totally different from criticizing someone's culture.

Secondly, as Noyhauser has pointed out (thank you!), I have lived in Japan for some time and am about as assimilated into the society as a foreigner can get. Your argument is that because I was not born here, I have no right to criticize things. That is absolute nonsense. I live in this society and the issues that I criticize have a direct bearing on my personal life. Despite my being of a different ethnic background, I feel I have just as much a right to speak my mind as anyone else does. If a Japanese person living in Canada complained about Canada, I sure as hell wouldn't tell them to get out of the country like you told me to do.

And don't you dare try taking the moral high ground on this one. You might have found my original post offensive, but as Noyhauser points out it wasn't directed at any individual, I was talking about a country. Your post, on the other hand was a deliberate personal attack on me. You say you value eloquent and intelligent arguments? Go take a look at every post I have written here and you will see that unlike you I have never flamed anyone on this board.

I made it quite clear in my original post that I didn't mean for it to be taken seriously, though you seem to have some sort of conspiracy theory about my true motives or something. Let me re-iterate: I do not think Japan sucks. I think that the aspects of Japan that I have outlined above suck, and you seem to concede the point. I deliberately adopted a provocative tone in the hopes of stirring debate about the issue. If you really were personally insulted by my tone (and I highly doubt you were), then I apologize. But if you disagree with my tone so much, then why did you adopt it yourself in your posts against me? Trying to prove your point? Well, you would have done better responding in that civil manner that you purport to value rather than hurling the mud back at me.

[senseiman]

Budd-

Sorry about the topic title. Didn't mean any offense, though in retrospect I can see that it was a bad idea.

[budd]

don't apologize to me :) not my country... much thanks for the thought :)

[bz_jpn]

The Nara station was determined to be preserved thanks to citizen's group.

http://www1.kcn.ne.jp/~c1424/nara_station/index.html

[budd]

hey, thanks for the info! どうもありがとうございます！

[senseiman]

I wish that they were succesful, but when I visited Nara on Monday the station was almost half destroyed. It absolutely disgusted me. That is an interesting site though, I wish they had more luck in fighting to preserve the building.

[Uncle Frank]

Here in Portland, Maine during the early 60's they tore down a beautiful old train station for a really bad shopping center. Almost no business opened there has succeeded; almost like the site is cursed!
People became so upset about it, a preservation group was formed to prevent it from happening again. Now days an historic building owner can't change a thing without permission. If an old building has to be gotton out of the way, it has to be hauled off and set up else wheres.

Frank

[Swifty]

That sounds like something that happened here ^_^

AMC theaters was building a 24 near a very historic spot for my town
(I dont know what happened there lol, but its historic)

so when you see this theater RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE

is this OLD house with bricked closed windows and no door lol

its kinda funny ^_^

[Glenski]

senseiman,
Are you criticizing the industrialization and urban sprawl, or are you just upset over the fact that the brochures of Takamatsu weren't as 100% perfectly pristine as they showed? If it's the latter, you were being unrealistic, as every brochure from every country's tourist attractions lies. How else are they going to attract tourists?

[budd]

walmart is just jacking up everything over here. them, kmart and target
they all should be class-action sued :(

[waverider]

Well, for my first post to this newly found forum, I might as well state some things that I dislike about Japan. Might as well start off with a bang, eh? ;)

Okay - Japanese drivers. They take 2 years of courses, pay a huge sum of money and still can't drive worth a crap. I live way up north in Aomori Prefecture so I guess it's what you would consider 'the country.' There are a lot of backroads and small highways that have no shoulder, are fairly crowded and aren't well maintained. I still do not understand the fascination with stopping in the middle of a road to check a map or take a cellphone call or even to run out of your car to the nearest soda machine for a refreshment. How hard can it be to pull off into a driveway or sideroad, or heaven forbid, a parking lot? We get a lot of snow up here in the winter and I think you can understand that people doing this makes for some very hazardous driving conditions.

Another thing - what's with not using your blinker until you have already started to make the turn? I'm pretty sure they are in the vehicle to be used as a warning to drivers behind you.

I also love how a red light is pretty much ignored until it's been red for a good 5 seconds or so. Yellow lights? What are those for? I don't know how many times I've had to slam on my brakes while proceeding through an intersection because a car or two are still going through the red light adjacent to me.

Okay, that's enough on driving. I have much more though. Just gotta keep thinking, drive defensively, drive defensively........

I think my biggest irk over here is how the beaches are treated. They are virtual garbage dumps and it sickens me everytime I head to my local beach to surf to see what new stuff has been deposited overnight. The fishermen treat the ocean as a dump and just throw their garbage overboard all of the time. This just doesn't seem to mesh with how the Japanese project themselves as an environmentally friendly culture.

Well, that's probably enough for now. I look forward to getting in here more and seeing what others have to say about this country and learning what I can. I can't believe I've been here for two years and have never seen this site!

So, a big Hello to everyone!

[senseiman]

Glenski -
Yeah, its the industrial and urban sprawl that bothers me the most. I've long since given up any hope of finding an honest tourist brochure.
Not that I expect all the natural environment and traditional houses to be preserved, but I do wish they would do something to regulate what gets built and where.

Budd -
Walmart just entered the Japanese market through a tie-in with a Japanese retailer. So we can probably expect more big ugly box stores and more streets full of family owned shops being turned into ghost towns. Very depressing thought.

Waverider-
Welcome to the board. I know what you mean about the beaches here, aren't they the worst? If they aren't covered in concrete they are covered in garbage. If they aren't covered in garbage, they are covered inconcrete. Its a no win situation.

[Shinmeiryu]

Originally posted by senseiman

Budd -
Walmart just entered the Japanese market through a tie-in with a Japanese retailer. So we can probably expect more big ugly box stores and more streets full of family owned shops being turned into ghost towns. Very depressing thought.

Walmart's spreading in Japan now? Oh boy...

Enough with the jack-of-all trades outlets already.

[Mopman]

Originally posted by budd
walmart is just jacking up everything over here. them, kmart and target
they all should be class-action sued :(





WOW! That could not have been said better.:cool: