Dolphins [Archive] - Japan Forum

isanatori

Apr 28, 2004, 06:29

bossel

Apr 28, 2004, 09:33

dolphins are not threatened with extinction.
That's not entirely true. There are different species of dolphins & several are threatened. If I'm correct, the slaughtered dolphins belong to the species Striped Dolphin. According to the Red List of Threatened Species they are still generally abundant but threatened in the North West Pacific & Mediterranean Sea.

From the Red List, http://www.redlist.org/search/details.php?species=20731 :

"Catches of Striped Dolphins in Japan have declined dramatically since the 1950s, and there is clear evidence that this decline is the result of stock depletion by over-hunting (Kasuya 1999). Although abundance estimates For Striped Dolphins in Japanese waters during the 1980s totaled more than half a million (in three areas of concentration) (Miyashita 1993), and catch limits are in force, major problems still remain. More than one population may be involved in the drive and harpoon fisheries, and Striped Dolphins have been completely or nearly eliminated from some areas of past occurrence (Kasuya 1999)."

BTW, animal rights activists have already made & published videos of slaughterhouses in Europe & the US. Being an omnivore myself, I think, that's OK. That way slaughterhouses are forced to treat the animals better than before.

Another BTW, the original link seems to be out-dated. This one is more recent:
http://www.freethedolphins.org/drive_fisheries_10-2003.htm

playaa

Apr 28, 2004, 10:06

I definately think that limits should apply, killing of thousands of extinct dolphins is useless.. and avoidable. People will never learn though. They KNOW without trees and rainforests we will die but do they stop from cutting down high percentages of the rainforests and trees each year? Nope.

mad pierrot

Apr 28, 2004, 16:40

I happen to live in Wakayama and I hear about this debate all the time. And to be fair, I've heard good arguments on both sides. The best I've heard by far has nothing to do with dolphins. Instead, it's about Wakayama's monkeys. The Japanese Macaque populates the mountains in most of the Southern part of the prefecture. No one can argue that these lesser primates aren't as intelligent, if not more, than dolphins. And, in most areas, there is a standing $100 dollar bounty on them. They wreak havoc on local farmer's crops, so they aren't the most popular of animals in Wakayama. In my town, all you have to do is turn their tales into city hall to recieve the cash. Why isn't anyone crying about their slaughter? And as far as I know, no siginificant studies have been made into the size of their population.

Then there is the cultural issue, so on and so forth. I just don't like it when things get out of hand, like the sabotage that happend in Taiji not too long ago. (I'll look for the link.) Hell, if I was living in the states, I would be more concerned with the negative effects of buckthorn on local flora. And it's very easy to do something about. All you need is shears, some time, and to be able to identify it.

That's my rant. Btw, most of the oxygen in out atmosphere ISN'T supplied by the rainforest, or any forest. (But they should still be protected.)

jeisan

Apr 28, 2004, 17:00

They KNOW without trees and rainforests we will die but do they stop from cutting down high percentages of the rainforests and trees each year? Nope.
do you think logging companies (US at least) wouldnt plant more trees after they cut some down? not nesseccarily because they care about forests, but more likely becuase they want to keep making money. i mean they know that without trees they'll be out of business. so in order to keep making money they have to plant more trees. granted they'll still be cut down but its dumb for them not to plant more.

Hell, if I was living in the states, I would be more concerned with the negative effects of buckthorn on local flora.
buckthorn = ryegrass??
well either way we're having a problem with ryegrass here in texas. its cut the wildflower population quite abit over the years, doesnt let them grow.

kirei_na_me

Apr 28, 2004, 19:47

Well, that was posted back in October. That is why it is down now...

I think it was Eternal Wind who dug it up.

playaa

Apr 29, 2004, 02:06

Hm the monkey's bounty sound like the bounty we have here in Louisiana and Mississippi on Cyote's and Wolve's.

bossel

Apr 29, 2004, 04:34

The Japanese Macaque populates the mountains in most of the Southern part of the prefecture. No one can argue that these lesser primates aren't as intelligent, if not more, than dolphins. And, in most areas, there is a standing $100 dollar bounty on them. They wreak havoc on local farmer's crops, so they aren't the most popular of animals in Wakayama. In my town, all you have to do is turn their tales into city hall to recieve the cash. Why isn't anyone crying about their slaughter? And as far as I know, no siginificant studies have been made into the size of their population.
Actually, the Japanese Macaques are on the Red List, also. They have no definite status, though, for there are differences over how endangered they are.

From http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Macaca_fuscata.html :
"In 1990, numbers in the wild were estimated at 35,000 - 50,000 and declining. Today, the Japanese macaque is listed as threatened by the U.S. ESA and the subspecies Macaca fuscata yakui, which is found in Yakushima, Japan, is listed as endangered by the IUCN. The main cause for the decline of the Japanese macaque population has been deforestation. Additionally, there are an estimated 5,000 Japanese macaques captured or shot every year, which happens even though the species is protected by the Japanese government. Japanese macaques have increasingly become agricultural pests and the rights of farmers have taken precedence over laws protecting the macaques that are eating their crops."

As for their intelligence: I think, there are no conclusive comparative studies on intelligence of monkeys & dolphins. It's hard to test a dolphin's intelligence, therefore you just don't know who's more intelligent.

mad pierrot

Apr 29, 2004, 20:37

Damn!

Bizarre that the town promotes the slaughter even though the government protects them.

playaa

Apr 29, 2004, 23:29

Yeah, good example of rules made to be broken... I guess the saying "My rights begin where yours ends" goes with this.

bossel

Nov 23, 2004, 20:52

Maybe another reason not to hunt dolphins:

Dolphins prevent NZ shark attack (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4034383.stm)

thomas

Nov 24, 2004, 00:30

BBC News recently featured an interesting article about Taiji, a small town in Wakayama, renowned for dolphin hunting. The town's official website (http://www.jref.com/cgi-bin/jump.cgi?ID=11984) displays its dolphins proudly and prominently.

"We had come here after an American marine mammal specialist with One Voice, Ric O'Barry, told us about the annual mass slaughter of dolphins in Japan.

It has been going on for 400 years and the process is called "drive hunting". The fishermen surround a pod of dolphins at sea. They lower metal poles into the water and bang them with hammers. The clattering noise carries through the water, and confuses the dolphins' sonar. In their panic, the dolphins are driven into shallow water. Then the killing begins.

There is little finesse about it. The water runs red, as the fishermen use knives and ropes to capture them and hoist their thrashing bodies onto the quayside. From there, they are dragged, many still alive, to the slaughter house, chunks of flesh ripping from them onto the tarmac."
=> Dining with the dolphin hunters (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3956355.stm)

=> Dolphin hunting thrives in Japan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/974656.stm)

That's Japan: on the other hand, a disabled dolphin gets an artifical tail fin, sponsored by a Japanese tyre company

=> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4021993.stm

:souka:

mad pierrot

Nov 25, 2004, 16:04

I should visit Taiji, I live nearby. Anyone know exactly when the dolphin hunt takes place?

bossel

Nov 26, 2004, 00:16

From the BBC article "Dining with...":
"The dolphin hunting season began at the start of October."

But haven't seen an exact date.

earthangel

Feb 9, 2005, 20:36

hello,

i see you all agree to say that the dolphin hunt done by peoples in Taiji disgusts you. i wonder what would happen if an indian was to film the way cows are killed in slaughterhouses, in western countries, or if a muslim was to make a reportage on the slaughter of porks in Europe and America. i guess there would be a feeling of disgust from indians and muslims.

it is very easy to judge other's cultures and ways of living. the guys from sea shepherd are very nice to expose this but they don't try to understand why japanese fishermen kill dolphins for consumption. the objective is clearly to create a strong feeling of disgust in western societies, which might bring new members ... and more probably, funds to their association.

as far as i know about this hunt, having been to Taiji once and being interested in the whaling issue, dolphins are not threatened with extinction.

Isanitori you are right - there is no difference between killing dolphins in Japan and killing cows in the West from the moral perspective. And on both sides of the fence, it is people's lust for the taste of flesh and blatant disregard for the animal who values its life like we value our own. It's all unspeakably horrible for those rare people who have learned to look beyond their own egocentric and anthropocentric conditioning.

Your assumption of the fishermen's motives in killing dolphins to repulse westerners in order to attract more funds is crap. They kill dolphins in order to supply supermarket chains with meat because Japanese people eat tons of fish every day! It's business, bottom line. If they really wanted to repel westerners why are they now surrounding the entire Taiji Bay with giant canopies so nobody can see or photograph the 5hr long killing? Pity for them they can't shut up their screaming.

As far as dolphins being threatened with extinction, at the rate we are going that is coming. With 90% of the big fish from the sea gone, the bell tolls for all marine life. As humans continue to breed more of their kind, all wanting to eat fish every day, it's just a matter of time before everything is gone.

timmid1

Feb 10, 2005, 02:32

I agree that from a moral and ethical point of view there is little difference -- the ethics and morality of taking the life of a sentient being do not depend on the species.

However there are three very big difference between the killing which takes place in slaughterhouses and the slaughter of dolphins in Taiji:
First, in slaughterhouses the killing is supposed to be done humanely, in a way which does not cause unnecessary suffering to the animal. But the dolphins in Taiji are killed by being speared and slashed and left to slowly bleed to death. The dolphins are left to die slowly and painfully from their wounds.
Second, cows are killed to be eaten, but I understand that most dolphin meat is wasted or converted to fertilizer.
Third, although meat is generally not very healthy, dolphin meat is often contaminated and poisonous. Studies in 1999 from Tetsuya Endo, Koichi Haraguchi and Masakatsu Sakata at the University of Hokkaido showed that dolphin meat usually contains levels of mercury, and other heavy metals and PCBs which are dangerous and which will cause brain damage to children and unborn fetuses. Interestingly, in the province of Wakayama, dolphin meat is given to children at school. Has everyone forgotten the tradgedy at Miramata where a whole village was affected by mercury poisoning from contaminated fish?

earthangel

Feb 10, 2005, 20:38

Does anyone know where we can view scenes of the Taiji dolphin slaughter? I know the Japanese Government has made it illegal to videotape now but are there pre-existing tapes that could be viewed?

I'm sure Japanese people would be up in arms if they saw such coverage in much the same way as if that happened here in Australia. After all, dolphinariums are very popular in Japan so there must be a lot of dolphin lovers living in Japan who would be willing to do something about this?

Am I wrong?

mad pierrot

Feb 11, 2005, 11:27

After all, dolphinariums are very popular in Japan so there must be a lot of dolphin lovers living in Japan who would be willing to do something about this?

I didn't know they were popular... In fact, I've never seen one.

I live somewhat near Taiji, and most adults I speak with know about it. They mostly get annoyed by Americans who are overly critical. Most young people I know are either against it or don't care.

Horizon

Aug 27, 2005, 23:23

I happen to live in Wakayama and I hear about this debate all the time. And to be fair, I've heard good arguments on both sides. The best I've heard by far has nothing to do with dolphins. Instead, it's about Wakayama's monkeys. The Japanese Macaque populates the mountains in most of the Southern part of the prefecture. No one can argue that these lesser primates aren't as intelligent, if not more, than dolphins. And, in most areas, there is a standing $100 dollar bounty on them. They wreak havoc on local farmer's crops, so they aren't the most popular of animals in Wakayama. In my town, all you have to do is turn their tales into city hall to recieve the cash. Why isn't anyone crying about their slaughter? And as far as I know, no siginificant studies have been made into the size of their population.

Hmmm...That may just be because the Japanese Macaque are considered as 'pests' I'm assuming, whilst dolphins are not?

It seems to me like most people would cry out in outrage if they saw, say, a dog getting beaten horribly, but wouldn't have much of a problem with rats being poisoned or something similar where they're eating and contaminating food.

It may just be me, but I think alot of people will only be against something if it doesn't benefit them. Take the previous example with the dog and the rat, beating up a dog wouldn't gain anyone money, whilst killing rats that are damaging crops and the likes would for obvious reasons.

The same might possibly be said for the dolphins and the monkies as well. Killing dolphins, especially in such high numbers, wouldn't benefit most people, however, killing those monkies would as they destroy one's property. Not to mention, apparently, you get money for killing them anyway...

Lastly, I'm sorry if that sounded a lot like a song on repeat...:relief:

duff_o_josh

Aug 28, 2005, 03:18

I definately think that limits should apply, killing of thousands of extinct dolphins is useless.. and avoidable.

it is extremely useless if they are already, extinct! :blush: :blush:

Horizon

Aug 28, 2005, 03:19

it is extremely useless if they are already, extinct! :blush: :blush:

Hey...You never know! The Tasmanian Tiger is supposed to be extinct and all afterall and people are still seeing them! And the exact same thing with Elvis too! :p

kokusu

Nov 5, 2005, 23:12

From Denis Leary's "No Cure for Cancer":

http://jorgen.nu/ncfc/06_meat.asp

Hm . . . :?

Jlin

Oct 2, 2006, 22:26

Just this past Sat. I saw a TV program here in Japan where the commercial fisherman hunt sharks because they claim sharks eaten fish that amounts to about 100 million yen a year in revenue. The program shows how they use large hooks with baits to hook in sharks and used long spears to spear them to death before they are dragged up on the boat. The footage is quite grusome and I can't believe they show the entire footage. They largest one they caught was about 4 meters. Well, I didn't get to watch the entire program so I don't know what they do with the sharks, but seems like they will have some use for the sharks because I have seen footage of fisherman(probably Chinese and other nation's) that just drag the sharks up on the deck and cut the fins off and throw the sharks back to the sea. What really disturb me is that they blame sharks for the decline in fish stock and kind of made a fun out of it, the program's host even join in and speared at about 2 or 3 sharks to death. Aren't the fisherman that killed dolphins in Japan also claimed dolphins consumed too much fish? And aren't some sharks already in endengered list and protected? Needless to say this program's protrayal of Japanese fisherman does not help their country's image.

Dudley

Feb 27, 2007, 07:35

It is quite amazing that industrial fishing takes plenty more in bycatch that returns dead to the ocean, so surely there is a need to perhaps look at this issue to why the fish stocks are dwindling.

Yet whales are blamed for this !!

Krill, the mainstay of the Antarctic ecosystem is under pressure from commercial fisheries. Yet I've yet to see Japan give any figures on this.

..... having been to Taiji once and being interested in the whaling issue, dolphins are not threatened with extinction.

However in your profile you say you've not been to Japan !!!

BTW- the figures used for abundance are dated more than fifteen years, while the meat has been shown to be contaminated with mercury, while it is naturally occuring industrial pollution pushes it up to levels that contaminate the meat sold in the stores.

dolphinlover

Apr 29, 2007, 01:17

it is horrible to receive an email showing how the dolphins were killed in japan for the food product!!!
w w w .glumbert.com/media/dolphin
please do not let this happen anymore....are you happy when you eat the dolphin and you knew how they die

Sarapva

Apr 29, 2007, 08:28

dolfinlover - Have you signed the petition to be sent to the Japanese prime minister against the dolphin hunts? This is the link - http://www.petitiononline.com/golfinho/petition.html

There are over 1 million signatures so far!

This has also been discussed in the "What do the Japanese people think of the Taiji dolphin hunts? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29713)" thread.

Dutch Baka

Apr 29, 2007, 09:13

thread merged.......

maushan3

Apr 30, 2007, 09:08

I don't know, are they near extinction? I see them as cute and all, but after all, they are animals and no different than sharks, deer, or cows. So, saying this, I don't think there is a problem in eating them, unless they are nearing extinction.

Mauricio

Sarapva

May 1, 2007, 09:09

I think the argument in this case is the way the dolphins are killed. Apparently, this has been going on for generations in Japan, but seeing how they go about it on video is shocking and heartbreaking. They obviously have no thought to the pain they're causing the dolphins as they slowly butcher them.

I think all animals (cows, pigs, etc.), if they're going to be killed for meat, should be killed as quickly and painlessly as possible, because in this day and age we know animals feel pain. It's possible the Japanese fishermen don't know this, but I think it's worse for the person killing the animal (in a karmic sense) if they do know the animal feels pain and don't do anything to lessen it. I believe that intentionally causing pain to another living being brings back bad karma.

I don't eat any meat or fish anymore because I don't want to support any killing that's done only for profit, with no respect for the animals involved. I also think being vegetarian is healthier. :ramen:

Hiroyuki Nagashima

May 1, 2007, 09:31

[ think all animals (cows, pigs, etc.), if they're going to be killed for meat, should be killed as quickly and painlessly as possible, because in this day and age we know animals feel pain. It's possible the Japanese fishermen don't know this, but I think it's worse for the person killing the animal (in a karmic sense) if theydo know the animal feels pain and don't do anything to lessen it. I believe that intentionally causing pain to another living being brings back bad karma.

Your hope,
A method to kill a dolphin effectively?
A method the same as how to kill this ****?:okashii:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=kfc_cruelty_usa&Player=wm

Sarapva

May 2, 2007, 05:50

There is a new method to killing chickens in slaughterhouses - "Controlled Atmospheric Killing" with carbon monoxide or something, where they're dead before being handled by people. As for killing dolphins, it seems there's got to be a better way besides dragging them live behind trucks and cutting their throats bit by bit so they slowly bleed to death. Shooting them would be quicker and also less work for the people. Ideally, no one would want to kill an animal, though. But since it's done all the time around the world, why not do it quickly?

Sparky

May 11, 2007, 08:00

That same shark killer was on T.V. last week. During a 10 minute episode He speared and killed 5 sharks. Then everyone took pictures along side them at the port. He showed how he single handedly fished them all. The "talents" back at the studio all ooooed and awwed while watching the show ended with all the talents clapping saying "Sugoiiii Ne" (Wow great). Just goes to show you the mind set in Japan. If it's in the ocean its fair game!