Why Final Fantasy Sucks.

[noyhauser]

Now Im usually not one to try to ruffle feathers or make broad pronouncments, but this time I feel like I have to...

*rant mode... in OVERDRIVE"

I should start off by saying I don't hate ALL final fantasy games, and I've played all of them up to a point. The Final fantasy series used to be synonamous with quality all of them in english for the SNES and I love them all. I just think that since FF7, the game has worn out its story and its like a really bad movie franchise that is trying to suck the money out of people. There has not been new innovation in that game since 7 except for graphics which shouldn't make a game better than another. Every new one is the same old such and such character going to save some small part of his life (friend love interests ect, ect) then gets caught up in some big conspiracy that threatens the world (sound familiar?). There are always summons and magic ect ect. The game hasn't changed in over 5 years and people still buy the product. Thats not to say that it can't be done well. The best game was Final Fantasy tactics, and since then none have equaled. The storyline in that game was amazing and realistic. People actually die in that game, people turn on each other and war is made out to be a very very bad thing. It had huge undertones with Religion (no I mean real religion not like the stuff they tried to put out in FFX) where religious zealotry causes fear bigotry and death. Also in the new games, I just feel like I'm playing a cookie cuttered story with candy apple characters whenever I play anything above FF-7. Its like i'm playing a game of cliches now. Its like its been dumbed down for the level of children. If want a real hero i'll play as Ramza Belouve in tactics ... that was a real heroic character that had HUGE character development. Play Tactics and you will see what I mean.

Also most of the FF line isn't really an RPG. Since the SNES games all FF has become is a storyline that you followed to get to the end of a story. there were always the ultimate combinations. In FF8 you might as well not use anything but summons since they could do 9999 damage which no physical attack could do. yeesh. Play a game like Baldurs Gate and they you will see what a real RPG is like.

well thats the end of my vent. Please come and criticize. I'm just sick and tired about people raving about how Final Fantasy is the greatest thing and how FFX-2 is the only sequal and its going to be great. No its not. I'm done with squaresoft now, all I can see now is them ripping the series for all its worth, not changing it just so they can make as much money off of it as possible.

*rant mode off*

[nikki_the_insane]

I, myself, do not think that Final Fantast is the best game out there, but I don't think it isn't any good. True the game play does not change much through out the series, but you try to come up with something that is new for the game. They stick to a certain type of play throughout all the games for a reason. You can easily learn how to control and edit stats and weapons on characters, so you don't have to spend 4 friggin hours trying to figure out the new battle system. With every game there is a main character, even with FFTactics. With a game that continues on like it does, it's hard to come up with something brand new every time. Sure the plot might be a little the same, but it is still a well done game none the less.

[jeisan]

i agree with noyhauser on this one, the last FF game i played was 8 and i prolly wont play another one. if for no other reason than i hate having to run around in circles in a middle of a field for hours on end just so i can fight a boss. thats not fun or entertaining to me. i just think square should hold up and not develop a new FF every 12 months. they do an exellent job with the chrono series (chrono trigger/cross) and there have been only 2 of those to date, hopefully the 3rd will come out soon.

[noyhauser]

I just think that there has not been anything fresh in the series in the last five years. And its fakeish bubblegummy world it puts together bothers me even more. Its like they have torn the bottom out of the genre. FF tactics was different because it was believable. A family feud, best friends turn enemies. How the story is presented, as a historian revealing the past, and who the real hero of the story was, makes its really engaging. FFT had a similar broad plot as other FF does (I won't tell you who the real villain is but its a HUGE SHOCK), but the way its presented and run makes it utterly different from all the others. FFX for the most part made me want to kill tidus rather than help him.

I keep using FFT because I and most people who played all the FF titles agree it was the best one. It had all the elements of a good RPG, Real customability, Multiple classes and differing strategies. I've seen a 100+ combinations of peoples "Ultimate Group" most of them are different. It also had so much potential in the game that you could go back and play it 3 or 4 times and not get all the secrets. You could even get cloud in the game.

I guess Im just bitter that the series has gone so downhill. I would do anything for them to publish a new version of FFT, that used updated graphics and made another wicked storyline for it. But alas it was too out there and didn't sell like the manufactured goodness of FFX, so I will never see that wish completed.

[m477]

I thought FFX was actually pretty good. Of course, FF7 didn't really bring anything new to the series either, mainly better graphics and such...

[jeisan]

some of the reasons i like chrono cross so much: there were crazy twists and turns in the plot, the multiple endings, the 40 playable characters, being able to see enemies on the game so you could avoid a fight if you wanted or just run right into them and since there was a cap on the amount you could level up between boss battles this put an end to the tedium of running around in circles for hours just so that you are strong enough to beat said boss. you were always strong enough, you just had to figure out the right way to beat them. there is also no way to get and see everything on one go through the branching storyline.

[Marc]

I had never thought about it before, but you have a point noyhauser. There were no real improvements or changes after FF7. I also think FFT is the best one. I'd also like to add another Square title: Vagrant Story.
People usually claim that its battle system is complex but I think it's neat. It gives you so much freedom and so many choices that makes you wanna play again and again.

[cathy]

I personal, never liked FF games. I installed many times the FF7 and FF8, but i just can`t get to like to go on.

Lots of gamers must like the FF7, course i am selling them like crazy. And, my prices are very steep $ 130.00 to $ 150.00. still i cant buy them fast anough to put up for sale. As soon i have one up for sale, the same day is sold. The FF8 is also hot game to sale. Now, i am talking the one for the PC. I never try to sell for other system. It might be very cheep, though.

[Luxpyre]

I like FF because they have good stoylines and are always very well made games. The battle system overall has not changed much, but it does fluctuate from game to game. The series has followed the same almost genre of story with the super bad guy threat to all existance in some way that has to be stopped by our band of stallwart heros for most iterations, but FFX actually was different from the old mold and that is it's strongest point. The battle system did not change much, but the storyline is one of the most original in the series.

[Luxpyre]

Having said all that, I also wanted to say that FFT's story line was awesome as was Xenogears but I can't stand the strategy gameplay! The only way I got anywhere near the end of the game before I just turned it off and never touched it again was by cheating. I realize most people think the gameplay was awesome but not me. Oh no...not me...shudder. Nothing is good like a fun and original idea that is well developed and then presented well in a game. Like Ico. I couldn't get enough of that game.

[jeisan]

yeah ico. i dig that game its really cheap right now, like $7.00

[x2468]

i'll play FF once it comes out on Xbox, till then square can go suck a nut. :)

[lineartube]

lol the reason why I didn't got a Xbox WAS because it doesn't have Final Fantasy. :D

[lita hayata]

somebody's already said - "it's the games that make the console, not the bits". that's ok, i think. snes was great even without sonic. playstation was great even without link. and final fantasy series have a part in that triumph. but i played FFX to the end - and it's really bad. i do concur with noyhauser: tactics IS the best one. FFIX is a cute thing still, but don't go with the following - it's just fmv.

[aaron]

Bad mouthing final fantasy. Over the years that I have played the games on PSX and PS2 they have gotten better. So if you have to bad mouth it, you have to go through me!!!!

[EscaFlowne]

AND ME! I love FF but certain one's are lacking.

[Eternal Wind]

I only love FFX(everything),FFVIII(storyline) and FFVII(everything)

[dreamer]

HUm...It's true that I stopped since FFVIII for I dunno which reason...

[noyhauser]

Bad mouthing final fantasy. Over the years that I have played the games on PSX and PS2 they have gotten better. So if you have to bad mouth it, you have to go through me!!!!


Im sorry the games are crap. the ONLY thing that has gotten better is the graphics and thats it.

NO innovation in Gameplay (in many cases a regression)
NO Improvement in storyline
NO (or very little) character development

I've been playing RPGs since NES came out. I've seen some bad ones, and some great ones.... however most of the ones out now aren't anybetter than FF2 in most respects except graphics. The latests ones out are pretty lame. Go Play Chrono Trigger, now THAT was a wicked RPG... most of the others since then have paled in comparison.

[Eternal Wind]

Now now...different ppl has a different view on games,no need to get nasty all over,ya? peace!

[TwistedMac]

right.. im just gonna go ahead and say i think FF has a sweet taste and it hasnt been letting fans down since #7 at all.. FF10 ahd an amazing storyline IMHO.

my 2 sen

[aaron]

Hey Twisted Mac, where did you get that clip from? Just wondering.

[Gaki]

Square need to make a new version of Bahamut Lagoon, i've been waiting about 6 years.

(-_-; )

[Winter]

Here is the reality; FF series of old catered to gamers. FF series of recent caters to teenyboppers.

The girlies of the game world.

Plain and simple.

[TwistedMac]

Hey Twisted Mac, where did you get that clip from? Just wondering.

The clip is from Azumanga Daioh (best anime ever) and i got it from TyPe-ZeRo (another user on this forum)...
he's the guy with the caboose (from red vs blue) avatar. :wave:

Here is the reality; FF series of old catered to gamers. FF series of recent caters to teenyboppers.

The girlies of the game world.

Plain and simple.
i beg to differ... that sounds mostly like an "i heard them before they got famous" comment.. personally i think that's just BS.. but maybe that's just me..

[jeisan]

i beg to differ... that sounds mostly like an "i heard them before they got famous" comment.. personally i think that's just BS.. but maybe that's just me..
ill disagree with that. becuase the same gamers who enjoyed FF2 dont like FFX they havent changed, the games have, therefore the games are indeed catered to a different audience otherewise all the old school gamers would still like them. the older games had something these new ones didnt. i would rather think square is just slipping but i think they are just more interested in selling the game than making it good. FF has sold out.

[Winter]

i beg to differ... that sounds mostly like an "i heard them before they got famous" comment.. personally i think that's just BS.. but maybe that's just me..


Its not just you. The teenies I just mentioned agree with you, so you arent the only one who is wrong.

FF after 6 was different, and you cant argue that. It obviously...well, not obviously, but it did cater to a different audience. 8 and beyond had a centralized hottie character. And the people surrounding them had that same physical appeal, that draws the attention of the newer fans its catoring to, the teenies.

Where as the older ones, since they couldnt make them look like all that and a bag of grits, had to focus more on story developement, and character developement, which shouldnt surprise you that the characters of yore, while being two dimensional graphically, still had more dimensions than their recent counterparts.

Deny that all you want, its the truth.

[kirei_na_me]

I have to agree with jeisan and Winter. I'm not going to elaborate, but I'm an old school gamer(pre-NES and a girl...heh) and I appreciate the older games much more. It's something about the simplicity of them that makes them complex, if that makes any sense.

Where as the older ones, since they couldnt make them look like all that and a bag of grits, had to focus more on story developement, and character developement, which shouldnt surprise you that the characters of yore, while being two dimensional graphically, still had more dimensions than their recent counterparts.

Yeah, that's what I mean. :-)

[dreamer]

Lol I dunno...I've played FFXI and it roxes , although the server lags a lot -_-
I think that what made me stop was the fact that the last FF weren't released on PC and i'm lazy to switch the psx/ps2 on :p

[TwistedMac]

Its not just you. The teenies I just mentioned agree with you, so you arent the only one who is wrong.

right, disagree with you and i'm automatically wrong, nice to know, next time before i have an opinion i'll check with you to see if i have the right one.

I still call BS. the storylines are as developed as ever, with only a few exceptions (like FF9.. dunno what that was all about...)

Try playing the old games again, you'll see the old memories of a golden age long since passed are subjective as hell.. the games are never as brilliant as we remember them (not to say the games aren't good, hell they're still a good play today, and that says alot about a game.. they're just not in the "fantastic" group anymore)

and don't try to say you're oldschool and therefore know better than me..
(not saying you did, just saw it started to lean that way)

i got an atari 2600jr when it was state of the art, i was programming bouncing balls on my c64 and i had my fair share of l33t warez for the amiga 500.

ofcourse i got a nes when that came out in europe and when my dad pre-ordered my snes for me was one of my happiest days.

I'm not saying the old games were bad.. they were fantastic.. i'm just saying the new games are good too.. and not just in some sort of teeniebopper way. The storylines are brilliant, like a great movie and the characters look better (what, they should be ashamed of that?)

If you think everything beyond 6 sucks, i'm guessing you haven't really played much beyond that..

you can have your opinion, and i'll have mine.. don't fuggin tell me my opinion is wrong, please.

[Elgin]

FFX-2 is like a girl's slumber party. Its really boring, I hate the fighting mode, I'm left confused on scenes that are supposed to be funny, it gives me no desire to continue.

[Gaki]

RPGs these days lack any real challenge, I still havent collected all of the abilities for Gau (and two of the other characters whose names i've forgotten) in FF6 and this is over 6/7 years from the original time FF6 was released.

[Winter]

right, disagree with you and i'm automatically wrong, nice to know, next time before i have an opinion i'll check with you to see if i have the right one.

I still call BS. the storylines are as developed as ever, with only a few exceptions (like FF9.. dunno what that was all about...)

Try playing the old games again, you'll see the old memories of a golden age long since passed are subjective as hell.. the games are never as brilliant as we remember them (not to say the games aren't good, hell they're still a good play today, and that says alot about a game.. they're just not in the "fantastic" group anymore)

and don't try to say you're oldschool and therefore know better than me..
(not saying you did, just saw it started to lean that way)

i got an atari 2600jr when it was state of the art, i was programming bouncing balls on my c64 and i had my fair share of l33t warez for the amiga 500.

ofcourse i got a nes when that came out in europe and when my dad pre-ordered my snes for me was one of my happiest days.

I'm not saying the old games were bad.. they were fantastic.. i'm just saying the new games are good too.. and not just in some sort of teeniebopper way. The storylines are brilliant, like a great movie and the characters look better (what, they should be ashamed of that?)

If you think everything beyond 6 sucks, i'm guessing you haven't really played much beyond that..

you can have your opinion, and i'll have mine.. don't fuggin tell me my opinion is wrong, please.

Wow, looks like I touched a nerve. I'd apologize if I cared, but since I dont, I wont.

And you're still wrong.

[dreamer]

RPGs these days lack any real challenge, I still havent collected all of the abilities for Gau (and two of the other characters whose names i've forgotten) in FF6 and this is over 6/7 years from the original time FF6 was released.
Have you collected all the ennemy's skills from FF7? :D

[MShingen]

The enemy skills for FF7 are very much easier to collect as compared to FF6.

The previous FF series are very much better as compared to now.... Especially FF5 and 6! FF7 is still quite fun despite of the squarish graphics. But FF8 onwards, it is only really focusing on the graphics and the sound effects. The game system was really sucks. FF9 was nothing better. FF10 was still quite fun. FFX-2's system was still acceptable but the plot sucks. Let us hope for yhe better in FF12.

[evasuka]

There Is A Needing To Go Back To The Original Stuff

[goggles]

Just think of FF7 as another SNES incarnation but 3D. That's why it blew everyone away. The movie is probably gonna suck heaps of money from people. Why? The fanbase is huge. And Square-Enix probably knows that. I don't think they're doing this CG movie for tangible benefits only.

What really sucks about FF now? Quite a few things.
-summon animations take an eternity
-magic spell animations take an eternity
those two points above say one thing: time wasting

Here's another; I live in Australia. Australia get's PAL games. PAL games are 25fps. The games are F'KIN slow. FF8, 9, 10 all released at 25fps. How long is it gonna take for Square-Enix to fix this?! It's also no wonder piracy is so big in Australia, and the 25fps gameplay is the very reason for it.

[MShingen]

Goggles, at your place, is it possible to get NTSC set and NTSC games and you use a NTSC to PAL converter to plug into TV so that you can play games at NTSC speed but on your PAL TV? That should solve the problem of the 25fps speed.

[Buddha Smoker]

I don't think FF7 was bad....it was more of a ground-breaker for the new stuff. I personally don't care for the newer games. I think the FF games on Snes were alot better at least story wise.... I liked FF7 because it was a bit more mysterious. That's my two yen.

[ashuri2]

hmm..i already said this in another thread, but it needs saying again: ffX sucked, and i'm not randomly saying it, i played it for a long time, got sick of it's pointless storyline that was, and i quote myself, 'a clean soap opera with a generous helping of teen angst', and i'm gonna add unreality in there. ffvii actually had a point, and it was realistic in its stotyline (i like how the main character went insane for a while). and my opinion isn't based on 'the golden days' nostalgia cause even though i've been gaming for a while, i just started getting into ff stuff. after ffx, i was about to storm off in disgust, but then a friend loaned me ffvii and now it's true love...i'm gonna go play ffviii next, so, i have no opinion on that. ffx-2? can someone say bubblegum? that is not a serious RPG, the people up at that place made it to try to lighten the tone of the ever-so-boring and depressed ffx, and it's kinda obvious. i mean, come on, costume changes!?!? original, i guess, but it kinda smacks of, 'let's play dress-up'! 'i'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world/i'm made of plastic, isn't life fantastic!/you can comb my hair, and dress me anywhere...' i think it's sad that i can go and play a game 7 years after it comes out and find it much better than it's later siblings.

[Wakaranai]

What are your views on the FF games.

My views are that the games need to be getting back to their roots.
Less SiFi and more Fantasy. Old School FF was the best. FF 1-5

Dont get me wrong not all SiFi FF games are bad. FF 6 AKA FF3 In the States was the best FF game and It had some SiFi in it. FF7 was great to. But FF8 was bad FF9 was ok. FFX and FFX-2 this is a bad idea. FF should never have any sequels this is a bad bad idea. Sequels lead to a downfall. 007 has never had any Sequels and that is what made it so great.

My views on FF is of the old school. When I see a FF game is should remind me of (D&D) Dungeons and Dragons. And not Alternity.
Alternity was a SiFi RPG made by Wizards of the Cost. It was a flopp. :balloon:

[ashuri2]

.........
i think there's thread where this exact thing was talked over, and i'm to lazy repeat myself. but basically, i think the series has indeed fallen in quality, but not necessarily along the lines of old school, new school...more like a slow, decaying, progressive decline...

[Buddha Smoker]

This thread and the other should be merged....

MODERATOR.... help please...:D

[jeisan]

merged...

wakaranai, you might wanna read this thread from the begining.

[Buddha Smoker]

merged...

wakaranai, you might wanna read this thread from the begining.

thank you very much. :cool:

[Arekkusu]

I'd like to say one thing:

I've read that a few hate FF7 for personal reasons but some people(not just here but all over) who say it sucks story and graphic wise has to relize this:

FF7 is a older game.
At the time Square was just starting to transfer to a higher level of gaming aka the Playstation.
At the time period(what around '96-'97 right?) the game was great.
For it's time it rocked.
The story was entertaining, and the graphics were great again for it's time.
People compare it and judge it on game views of today. Yes the graphics blow because they are what? 6-7 years old?
Indeed compared to other RPGs now it may look like garbage, but go back 6-7 years and remember when people bought it for the first time. I remember renting it non-stop because it was a rocking game for it's time and I loved it. Then the word came out for FF8 and I was going crazy. Gotta have gotta have type crazy, but why? Because at the time those games were rocking, and now they are "old school".

What I am saying really is now they may suck yes, but remember back when we didn't have the great amount of graphic/storyline games this is what we had to entertain ourselfs for hours.

Now for FFX and FFX-2..I mean they were "ok" I think. Nice graphics, and the storyline..was eh "ok" again, but FFX I thought could have been longer, and I never really bothered to finish FFX-2..sidequests=over and over=annoying a bit.
---------------
I love playing FF11 online.
It's just a way for me to engage with other FF players and get away from my stressful life for a few hours.
---------------
FF12 looks like it should be a fun game, but we will have to wait and see.^^

[Buddha Smoker]

I'd like to say one thing:

I've read that a few hate FF7 for personal reasons but some people(not just here but all over) who say it sucks story and graphic wise has to relize this:

FF7 is a older game.
At the time Square was just starting to transfer to a higher level of gaming aka the Playstation.
At the time period(what around '96-'97 right?) the game was great.
For it's time it rocked.
The story was entertaining, and the graphics were great again for it's time.
People compare it and judge it on game views of today. Yes the graphics blow because they are what? 6-7 years old?
Indeed compared to other RPGs now it may look like garbage, but go back 6-7 years and remember when people bought it for the first time. I remember renting it non-stop because it was a rocking game for it's time and I loved it. Then the word came out for FF8 and I was going crazy. Gotta have gotta have type crazy, but why? Because at the time those games were rocking, and now they are "old school".

What I am saying really is now they may suck yes, but remember back when we didn't have the great amount of graphic/storyline games this is what we had to entertain ourselfs for hours.

Now for FFX and FFX-2..I mean they were "ok" I think. Nice graphics, and the storyline..was eh "ok" again, but FFX I thought could have been longer, and I never really bothered to finish FFX-2..sidequests=over and over=annoying a bit.
---------------
I love playing FF11 online.
It's just a way for me to engage with other FF players and get away from my stressful life for a few hours.
---------------
FF12 looks like it should be a fun game, but we will have to wait and see.^^

Good points but that is why I always refer to it as a founder in the Final Fantasy series. Also, for playability (spell?) then FF3 (or 6 in Japan) and FF7 offer alot especially in storylines but that is just my opinion.

[Arekkusu]

I must agree.
I just found FF7 a fun game.
I beat it 4-5 times and I'm playing it all over again.
It's just fun!*lol*

[Lina Inverse]

RPGs these days lack any real challenge, I still havent collected all of the abilities for Gau (and two of the other characters whose names i've forgotten) in FF6 and this is over 6/7 years from the original time FF6 was released.
Indeed. It should be about 10 years now, I think.
Have you got yet a complete list of the items you can battle for in the arena? Or how about Gogos imitations or Relms sketch attack?
While FF7 was a small revolution graphics-wise at that time, story- and gameplay-wise it clearly went downhill from FF6. This trend continued with FF8, which had even better graphics and even worse story and gameplay. FF9 was somewhat different, and from FFX on, it got a little better again, but not too much.

[Buddha Smoker]

Indeed. It should be about 10 years now, I think.
Have you got yet a complete list of the items you can battle for in the arena? Or how about Gogos imitations or Relms sketch attack?
While FF7 was a small revolution graphics-wise at that time, story- and gameplay-wise it clearly went downhill from FF6. This trend continued with FF8, which had even better graphics and even worse story and gameplay. FF9 was somewhat different, and from FFX on, it got a little better again, but not too much.

I stopped after FF8...I just couldn't take it after that....it FF8 was bad but it looks to have gotten worse after that.

[ashuri2]

i'm playing ffviii now and the storyline isn't coming together for me. there are some nifty parts/scenes, like when squall goes through the emergency exit and fights the soldier in the air, but i feel like i'm missing something. even though i knew squall and rinoa fall in love, it kinda seems to happen all of a sudden, and the story takes some twists even i raise some eyebrows on. it's kinda hard to follow the story when it makes no sense, like when squall walks off with rinoa in a coma and then everyone else comes along, leaving the battle-torn garden defenseless without any of its leaders, and some stuff just seems stupid...it's interesting, but....

[Buddha Smoker]

i'm playing ffviii now and the storyline isn't coming together for me. there are some nifty parts/scenes, like when squall goes through the emergency exit and fights the soldier in the air, but i feel like i'm missing something. even though i knew squall and rinoa fall in love, it kinda seems to happen all of a sudden, and the story takes some twists even i raise some eyebrows on. it's kinda hard to follow the story when it makes no sense, like when squall walks off with rinoa in a coma and then everyone else comes along, leaving the battle-torn garden defenseless without any of its leaders, and some stuff just seems stupid...it's interesting, but....

That's exactly why I didn't like it...it's really attractive to the eye but when you go into admire the details then it just seems not to be there..know what I mean?

[goggles]

Oi oi oi. Give square a break will ya lol. FFVIII was the first in the series to under go such changes and also square's first proper attempt at mixing love in to the equation.

A lot of criticism of FF8 i hear is that "FF8 is all show, no gameplay/story" or something on the lines of that. I think we say that because we start the habit of comparing, coz i hear/see people whip in any of the 2D FFs and say "FF1-6 was all gameplay/story and graphics has nothing to do with it" - well of course, the graphics today are superior so you'd say FF1-6 (just pick any) has no eye-candy.

So hey, i guess all we can do is move with the times and the direction square wants to take. You can only be in the limelight for so long.

I found FF8 not too great either but it still deserves some credit i guess. Give it a try but if you don't like it then it can't be helped i guess which is fine. Peace.

[Buddha Smoker]

Oi oi oi. Give square a break will ya lol. FFVIII was the first in the series to under go such changes and also square's first proper attempt at mixing love in to the equation.

A lot of criticism of FF8 i hear is that "FF8 is all show, no gameplay/story" or something on the lines of that. I think we say that because we start the habit of comparing, coz i hear/see people whip in any of the 2D FFs and say "FF1-6 was all gameplay/story and graphics has nothing to do with it" - well of course, the graphics today are superior so you'd say FF1-6 (just pick any) has no eye-candy.

So hey, i guess all we can do is move with the times and the direction square wants to take. You can only be in the limelight for so long.

I found FF8 not too great either but it still deserves some credit i guess. Give it a try but if you don't like it then it can't be helped i guess which is fine. Peace.

I think Square is just starting to put things out to make money off the Final Fantasy name but like they say...to each their own.

[ashuri2]

Oi oi oi. Give square a break will ya lol. FFVIII was the first in the series to under go such changes and also square's first proper attempt at mixing love in to the equation.

A lot of criticism of FF8 i hear is that "FF8 is all show, no gameplay/story" or something on the lines of that. I think we say that because we start the habit of comparing, coz i hear/see people whip in any of the 2D FFs and say "FF1-6 was all gameplay/story and graphics has nothing to do with it" - well of course, the graphics today are superior so you'd say FF1-6 (just pick any) has no eye-candy.

So hey, i guess all we can do is move with the times and the direction square wants to take. You can only be in the limelight for so long.

I found FF8 not too great either but it still deserves some credit i guess. Give it a try but if you don't like it then it can't be helped i guess which is fine. Peace.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying ff8 sucks (i'm still playing it, unlike ffx), i'm just saying it tends to take some liberty with the storyline that completely throws me for a loop. now, they had some love going on in ff7 with the whole undeclared love triangle between tifa and aeris and cloud, but it fit in the storyline and made the story better. in this one, it just makes me go, 'huh? wtf?'

[Areku]

I don't agree with you.

First of all, let me say that ALL games have gone downhill. I have several consoles, psx, ps2, gc, pc, gba, and the one I play most? PSX. Also, Megadrive/SNES. They simply don't make them how they used to, which is inevitable. Back then ideas were fresh, and now they're not, they just have better graphics to compensate. It's the same with movies. Most these days just sell on the effects/actors.

My favourite FF is 7. Sure, ff5, 6 were good, but FF7 also had a very good plot, involving characters, deep storyline but it also had amazing graphics which easily gave it the edge. It was the first 3d FF and it was fantastic.
I don't see the big problem with the plot. I think it's better than VI's. Avalanche, the Shinra, Sephiroth. It's a great plot! Combined with the graphics and the near-perfect battle system and huge amount of hidden stuff, it's easily the best Final Fantasy ever made.

Next we had FF8. The graphics were only marginally better than 7, but the characters were quite different, the plot was more adult and it had a whole new land.

I didn't like 9 so much, but that's not to say it 'sucks'. It had beautiful graphics and a cool set of characters, whole new weapon/magic system.

FF10 I don't consider an RPG. It's more an Adventure game, because it's so linear.

I don't see how you can complain about them being similiar...they're FINAL FANTASY games. Are you gonna complain that Gran Turismo 4 is too much like Gran Turismo 3? The FF legacy has several things consistent throughout the series, we're assured of a well written plot/dialogue, lots of cool monsters, a good battlesystem, cool summons, lots and lots of secrets, and good FMVs. They're all set in different worlds with just vague references to the others. Basically, it does what it says on the tin!

If you're a fan of rpg's, then 99% chance they won't 'suck'.

[Buddha Smoker]

After all, everybody has a different taste in what they like :wave:

[ashuri2]

lol...at this rate final fantasy will never die...they'll just keep making them, and one day our great-great grandchildren will be arguing the same thing. <it's a vicious cycle>.

[Buddha Smoker]

lol...at this rate final fantasy will never die...they'll just keep making them, and one day our great-great grandchildren will be arguing the same thing. <it's a vicious cycle>.

I have a feeling your right...now I remember Final Fantasy 25 and it was way better than FF 33.6. I mean come-on what were they thinking. I can imagine it already. :D

[goggles]

FF10 I don't consider an RPG. It's more an Adventure game, because it's so linear.


Linearity is just a feature of a game, it doesn't detract from the fact that FFX or any other RPG can't be considered as an RPG right?

[Areku]

Well...a very important aspect of an RPG for me, is that you are free to go places in a flexible fashion, and have some kind of traversable world map.

FF10 doesn't give you much scope to drift from the plot, for example in FF7 and 8, there's lots of other villages/locations/things you can goto/do without advancing the main plot, whereas in FF10 you're more pushed into doing things. Also the game areas are linear, more like an adventure game. There's a path(s) and you have to stick to it. In other FF games, it's usually a fully walkable map and areas. FF10 felt like 'go to this place, do that, go to another place, do that' etc.

I suppose technically it's an rpg, but to me it has too many adventure elements to be considered a true rpg.

[goggles]

When a game is too non-linear, i have this feeling of being lost in the game lol because there are so many things you can do in a non-linear game you get stuck thinking what to do.

As for linear games like FFX, you don't feel lost but you feel constricted so both elements have their pros and cons.

Maybe Square were betting on good story telling to compensate the non-linearity?

[Buddha Smoker]

Linearity is just a feature of a game, it doesn't detract from the fact that FFX or any other RPG can't be considered as an RPG right?

I agree. After all, Final Fantasy Tactics was a really awesome game that didn't get much advertisement or talk enough. I think it was an excellant game with a unique style and a pretty good story-line too. I especially liked the Cloud character and hidden sword plus all the job classes.

[JDubG]

I love the Final Fantasy series. And I cannot wait until Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children comes out!

[Buddha Smoker]

My interests are peeked too. I'm curious to see what it looks like in the final form.

[Roots]

ill disagree with that. becuase the same gamers who enjoyed FF2 dont like FFX they havent changed, the games have, therefore the games are indeed catered to a different audience otherewise all the old school gamers would still like them. the older games had something these new ones didnt. i would rather think square is just slipping but i think they are just more interested in selling the game than making it good. FF has sold out.

Amen to that! :cool: I still like FF games enough to play them, but my enjoyment of FF games is declining. I didn't like anything about the 12 hours or so I played FFX-2, and I haven't gotten FFXI for fear of becoming addicted and wasting too much time and money. :relief: I agree with your opinion that Square(-Enix) is more concerned about selling the game than making it good.

Personally my favorite RPGs are all from the SNES era. FFIV, FFVI, Chrono Trigger, there were so many gems! I miss them so much. :( Recently though I started my own RPG project (points to sig) and so far it looks really promising. Check it out if you're interested! :wave:

[TimF]

The clip is from Azumanga Daioh (best anime ever) and i got it from TyPe-ZeRo (another user on this forum)...
he's the guy with the caboose (from red vs blue) avatar. :wave:


i beg to differ... that sounds mostly like an "i heard them before they got famous" comment.. personally i think that's just BS.. but maybe that's just me..

I agree. They will be making these games for a long time so all you whiners better just buck up and kiss it!

[metronova823]

the only ff games for me are FFVII and FFX

[Chiaki_Kuriyama_Fan]

to the OP im a ff fanboy and i say screwww you muddafooker!

[ashuri2]

O_O wow, that was intense...

[enix_fan]

i'm a ff fan (ff7, ff8, and ff9,...that's pretty much it and tactics) this title really offends me and I'm not gonna argue or side just letting ya know...

[isayhello]

The FF games don't suck! The best games ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *overly excited*

[Doc]

The FF games don't suck! The best games ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *overly excited*

You meant to say Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VII are the best games ever made. :okashii:

Doc:ramen:

[isayhello]

VI isn't that good. But VII is, I guess. I love X though, even though it's simple and liear, the characters are sooo good !!! (with japanese voicing, that is)

[ashuri2]

the english so annoying, its one of the reasons why i got so annoyed at X that i stopped playing!

[isayhello]

The english IS annoying, but the japanese voices are cool. The english voicing is just stupid, and the voice actors aren't even good.. They're only good for a laugh! :lol:

[Doc]

Depends on the voice actors too. If you ever dis David Hayter, you will die a slow painful death. :box:

Doc:ramen::happy:

[isayhello]

I'm not gonna dis David Hayter.. He's cool. I was talking more about.. ahem, YUNA's english voice character... man, she sucked. But I DON'T care cause Yuna's kawaii and Rikku too!! (Is obsessed with FFX)

[Doc]

I'm not gonna dis David Hayter.. He's cool. I was talking more about.. ahem, YUNA's english voice character... man, she sucked. But I DON'T care cause Yuna's kawaii and Rikku too!! (Is obsessed with FFX)

That's good.:cool: David Hayter is one of the very few voice actors that a really respect in the VA industry. Simply put, the man IS Solid Snake. David Hayter, Steve Blum (David Lucis), Hiliary Haag, Greg Aries, and only a few other choice English voice actors are the only ones that I like. Other than that, bring on the Japanese VAs!:-) BTW, I hated the English voice work on FFX too.:-)

Doc:ramen::happy:

[digicross]

Personally, I'm not really into R.P.G., I just prefer to play games that I like. So... I don't think that I will like games that some people refer to as R.P.G..

Though technically, since many if not most games kinda enable you to role playing into someone or something, they too can be consider as R.P.G..

Gran Turismo or Need for Speed in a kind of way is an R.P.G. too.

What ever.

From what I experienced from the average typical Japanese console R.P.G. is this, it's kind a cross between a manga, an animation, one of those choose your own adventure book, many other things, and of course, a game. In other words, the game is a bonus. And even if there's a game, it's more in the style of an adventure game (story oriented) than an R.P.G. (battle stats and all that).

It would be interesting if a game is played out like an animated T.V. series, even with an opening animation and ending animation (around one and half minutes of animation) in the style of an animated T.V. series, with the animations and maybe also the songs changes as you progress in the game, just like an animated T.V. series when its story progress or at least when the T.V. series gets older.


Of course, if you want to delve into online R.P.G. especially Massive Multiplayers Online Role Playing Game, then I suggest moving to South Korea.



Well... Back to Final Fantasy.

I don't know.

Some says that everything post Final Fantasy VII are lousy.

Others says everything post Final Fantasy VI are lousy.

Though I would say that Final Fantasy VII kinda benefit for it being a slim version of Final Fantasy VI, only what happen if you made a slim version of Final Fantasy VI for the Sony PlayStation. Content is enough to be fulfiling, simple and slim enough to play without too much content, and eye candy enough to watch. Basically, this is where past, present, and future of the Final Fantasy line cross path, Final Fantasy 101? Though there's a small Final Fantasy VI demo for the S.G.I. platform, if there's a Nintendo 64's Final Fantasy VI, it probably will look like that.

Anyway. Back to lousy.

Some others say everything post Final Fantasy III are lousy.

Hmmm... I think that I see the trend here would be, faster hardware, lousier games? What happen if a Final Fantasy game is developed for the Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1? That is considered the birthplace of the first video game ("SpaceWar").


Final Fantasy X is in an odd spot, is the first main Final Fantasy game to feature a 'talky' feature, nice enough if you got the the right voice acting. Unfortunately, Japanese game and animation conversion dub aren't known for finding the right voice for their North American version, nor sounding quite pleasant. I mean that people are already complaining on how some things that don't translate quite well, now they are using voices? Maybe they should have just use voice actings for battle scenes only?

Final Fantasy XI is an oddball, personally they should have called Final Fantasy Online or something like that. I don't know why they decided to use the next number sequence instead of the word "Online". Considering that previous Final Fantasy games aren't online networkable, I think that Final Fantasy XI deserve a class of its own.


Anyway. I think that each game and each things do offer something different that some people like.

But all I can say is that, Final Fantasy VII is the BEST and the WORST Final Fantasy game I ever played in recent history, due the part that, Final Fantasy VII is the only Final Fantasy game I ever played so far I remember.

I don't play Final Fantasy VIII, since it don't interest me due to the style of the character design, if it's just the gameplay scenes, it's okay, but it's the F.M.V. that bugged me. This pretty much leave Advent Children also undesireable to me since it shares more similiar character design to Final Fantasy VIII rather Final Fantasy VII. And I pretty much don't pay attention of the video game industry after Final Fantasy VIII, which would explain me not knowing that Final Fantasy IX ever existed until I saw Final Fantasy X. Final Fantasy IX seems to be pretty nice though, and also Final Fantasy X is much better looking than Final Fantasy VIII (somehow Tidus seems to be better visually presented than Squall).


Will there be a Final Fantasy XIII?

Well... Unless Square-Enix think that 13 is a lucky number, they probably will prefer to do Final Fantasy VII: (insert subtitle here).

If they wise, they should discard the whole Advent Children storyline and instead done a fresh start with the epilogue of Final Fantasy VII. That they can have BOTH a SEQUEL and a totally NEW game and story.

I still wonder on why they didn't choose Final Fantasy VIII instead for Advent Children, why make Cloud looks Squall-ish when you instead can just use Squall. The proper character for the proper role. Cloud the geek boy, Squall the bad boy.

Then again, I don't understand either on why they use Sakamoto Maaya as the voice for Aerith in Kingdom Hearts. Why choose a voice actress that is much better suited for let say, Tifa or Lucrecia or Shera (or maybe even Tina or Celes or Rosa), why not just use either one of these character instead? Then again, Kingdom Aerith probably acted different than Final Fantasy VII's Aerith. Like one person said, in Kingdom Hearts, Donald Duck probably took his medication (since he isn't as ill tempered as usual), then Aerith in Kingdom Hearts probably is already medicated, rehabilitated, and finished her therapy.

And yes, I do also think that Mandy Moore is much better for the role Tifa or Lucrecia or Shera (or maybe even Tina or Celes or Rosa). Heck, when I first saw and hear Mandy sang, I immediately think that she would fit quite nicely voicing for Tifa, and they cast her as Aerith? Then again, this is Kingdom Hearts, not Final Fantasy VII.

Final Fantasy VII's Aerith is fast talking and have a hard time stop talking (Cloud have a hard time of trying to talk when she is talking), vibrant and active (not necessary athletic, tomboy-ish maybe), capable of girlish voice (somewhere between pre-teen and teen), and so on.

Maybe Mitsuishi Kotono (Usagi in Sailor Moon, Misato in Evangelion, Asuka in Cyber Formula, and so on) might be suitable, though it's just one of the many candidates.

As for the North American candidate. No, haven't got the slightest idea, maybe it would be much better if they just pick a junior high school girl or even an elementary school girl for it.

That's the problem with the conversion to the North American version, the voice selection might change.

Though this problem would pretty much explained on why the North American version of Final Fantasy X sound the way it is.

Though that still wouldn't explained on how Final Fantasy VII got choosen as the base for Advent Children and how Sakamoto Maaya voiced for Aerith in Kingdom Hearts.



As for game developers and publishers selling games.

I think that it's more into the term of propaganda rather than profit, much like the movie industry. As matter in fact, the whole entertainment sectors seems to be isn't aiming at profit at all. A large amount of money spent for the unknown, that doesn't make any business sense at all.

Though this would explain on why recent games (and also recent movies) have different content than older ones. And on why ancient video games (a.k.a. "SpaceWar", one of the first video games) have almost no content at all (it was made and distributed by a bunch of computer geeks who had too much time on the Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1).



Speaking of R.P.G., have anyone here plays the recent incarnation of SEGA's Shinning R.P.G. series?


Shining Tears seems to be made for fans that are into video games, manga, and animated stuff.

It's obvious with its hand drawn animated characters, the style of the character design, super deformed gameplay characters, a lot of animated scenes, and also with Hayashibara Megumi (famous for voicing many animated characters, like Blossom in the Japanese version of the Power Puff Girls) voicing for Blanc Neige ("white snow" in French) and Hoshino Souichiro (recently famous for his role as Kira Yamato in Kidou Senshi Gundam SEED and currently voicing for chaos in Xenosaga) voicing for Xion.

The whole storyline seems to be a ballad sang by a wandering ballad singer (he's in the logo of Shining Tears).

There's no way of getting killed in the game, you just fail the mission and return back to the tarven.

The two rings affect the Light and Dark of Shion, he weared an unremoveable ring, while his partner wear the other ring.

When Xion is partnered with a good girl (or boy), he turns into a bad boy. While if Xion is partnered with a bad girl (or boy), he turns into a good boy.

And of course, there are multiple endings since that there are multiple choices of partners, that will depend on how you treat your partners.

Though if I was Xion, I would want to get ALL of the four girls (Elwing, Ryuna, Blanc, and Mao)! Why not? WordsWorth allowed an ending for all of the girls in one scene, though it's more of a dramatic scene than a romantic scene. I wonder if Shining Tears allowed this kind of ending.


Shining Force Neo seems to be a recent incarnation of the Shining Force game.

The characters are animated in traditionally hand drawn fashion in many of the animated scenes, though some scenes feature the characters as 3D models, and of course the gameplay is in 3D and used 3D models.

Judging on the storyline and character design, I think that they're aftering the mid teens market.



Anyway. If I want something in an R.P.G., it probably will have the followings:

- Customizeable character battle statistic.

Any person, can do anything, provide you have the materials and do the training.

There. The lead character can use a staff, magic, a katana blade, and so on. While the sidekick can use a big sword or what ever. Anything the player told them to do. Cloud Strife can use a Gunblade, Squall Leonhart can use the Buster Sword, what ever.

The only difference the characters made would be only storyline wise. Not to mention that it will be quite handy if the storyline demand a character to be temporary or permanent out of the story.

It would also be interesting that each time a new character is introduced, new type of weapons and fighting skills are added according to the abilities and skills of the character.

I think that Final Fantasy V once try something like this with its job system? And Final Fantasy Tactics also do the same?


- Customizeable character's appearance.

It would be interesting if the appearances changes, Ragnarok Online was interesting in that you can do many interesting things with the characters, but in the same time, can still kept the look and the style of the characters intact.

But then again, if the appearances are allowed to look so different, it might end up looking like the Sims.

And there are reasons on why animated characters usually wear a single type of cloth or shown with a limited type of clothings.

One is limited resources (though Mokona of Clamp sure designs a lot of clothes for Sakura's battle outfits in "Card Captor Sakura"), the other is that the cloth is often reflect the person's identity, personality, and story. Watch out for The Pink Menace!

Of course, nothing is as hilarious or maybe weird as dressing a young man as a young woman.


- No cash! No turning the characters into a warehouse to store lots of items! No crazy experience points and level building!

If I was told to search for the mystical legendary weapon and armor in a quest, fine.

If I was told to gather a certain amount of cash to get a better weapon and armor, think again.

If I got a weapon and armor that developed along with the character, fine, I would only need to concentrate on the characters then. Why not just use living things as weapons and armors, it would be much easier that way, similiar to Final Fantasy VIII's Guardian system and maybe also Final Fantasy VI's magic system?

You learn to use the resources that are available, not to amount the resources into an unmanageable amount. Unless of course, it's a tactical strategy war game, then you would want all the resources you can get.


- A diary! A Captain's log! A personal organizer! What ever!

So you know on what has just happened and what will happen next.

That way you know what to do next and what not to do next.

This should solve the whole linear and non-linear things.

Besides, many animated T.V. series usually do recap on last week's episode, either by showing part of the previous episode or narrating what happened in the previous episodes.

Heck, I don't mind if there's a P.D.A. that said "Kill a dragon at friday, rest at saturday, save a village at sunday, go to the moon at monday...."


- A under 30 seconds battle, and preferably a 5 minutes maximum.

There's a reason on why commercials are usually 30 seconds or less, and there's a reason on why a presentation usually only last around 5 minutes or less.

[Chiaki_Kuriyama_Fan]

him...:: ignores above poster because i don't like his tone :: anyway about david hayter, he is solid snake, i think the japanese voice doesnt suit the american face...but its my opinion.....viva la hy-ter!

[forkagentsmith]

The FF games don't suck! The best games ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *overly excited*
agreed completely
except i am going to agree in proper english