In need of some firsthand information about work conditions in Japan

[Gally]

Hi there, I'm a newbie :). I've introduced myself in the forum about new members.


I'm currently working on a project I have to hand in two weeks about work conditions in Japan. Basically, the goal of this work is comparing a particular point in my culture (I'm a French-speaking Belgian) and in another. I chose work conditions in Japan, well... because I'm a LOT interested in the Japanese culture :happy: . In order to write this kind of essay, I need information from various firsthand sources, thus from people who've lived or currently live in Japan -I am to avoid cultural stereotypes and I'd like to be able to distinguish what is true and what isn't in them since I'll dedicate a section of my work to the analysis of stereotypes. I've prepared a list of questions about various aspects of work conditions in Japan, may I post them here?

[Uncle Frank]

It might be worth going back and reading some of the old posts. There is a ton of subjects that have been talked about in the past . Watch who gives good answers and info and you can send them a private message with your questions as well as post them. Good Luck, there are a lot of smart & helpful people on this forum.

Frank

:bow:

[Iron Chef]

Post away Gally! Myself or one of the others will do our best to answer them for you based on our own experiences.
:)

[Gally]

My, thank you :D. Here is my list of questions. A lot of stereotypes are included in this list, because I would like to know if there is a basis of truth in some of them. I think that most of them are at least exaggerate and that some of them may be completely invented (well, media, overgeneralizations and urban legends are stupid, aren't they?), but I also think some of them may be partly true. I also want to show my classmates that Japan isn't the austere country some of them think it is (wehn I say that I'm fascinated by the Japanese culture and that I love anime, some of my friends loof at me as if I were just mad ^_~). Well, the only way for me to really know is obtaining firsthand accounts from people who live or have lived in Japan. I know my list is long, but some questions are redondant because I'm not sure I expressed them clearly in the first place (English isn't my mother tongue -_-). If you don't want to answer all of them, I'll understand, but if I could at least get short answers to all of them, these pieces of information would be very precious for my work indeed ^^.


-In Japan, is equality promoted or is it important to succeed better than the others in order to "be someone"?

-How is it reflected in the education of children? Is it important for them to obtain the best marks as it is possible? Are they encouraged to be very conformistic, or to develop a strong critical spirit and an ability to take personal decisions? For example, if a teenager or a university student thinks a teacher or professor is wrong, are they allowed to say it? How is a child that doesn't do well at school treated by its parents, the teachers and the other children? About stereotypes, I've heard that, for example, only the best students were allowed to go to prestigious universities like Toudai or the Kyouto imperial university, that there were pretty difficult university entrance examinations and that there existed a strong hierarchy between the holders of a diploma from Toukyou Daigaku etc and people from less good universities. And also that because of social pressure, some teenagers will commit suicide if they fail in an exam. Obvisouly, these are stereotypes, but I wonder what exactly is true or false about them? In other words, what does actually happen in Japanese schools and universities?

-Do colleagues get along well, or do they feel they are in competition with one another? Do they strive to be the first one to get a prestigious position in the hierarchy?

-What about the condition of women? Are they felt to be equal to men? Do they have to work more than men in order to get the same positions? Proportionally to men, do a lot of women occupy leading positions?

-Is the Japanese society very hierarchical? Do the heads of companies generally treat their employees as equal or inferior to them? Do they happen to humiliate their employees? Do they earn a lot more money than them? Do employees take part in the decision processes of their companies, or do the "higher grades of the pyramid" decide for them?

-I've also heard that in Japanese, there are a lot of levels of formality and that the hierarchical relationships between people will always be strongly marked in the vocabulary and formality level used, for example in the way of saying "I" (boku VS ore VS watashi VS watakushi etc) or "you" (kimi VS anata etc etc) and in the use of suffixes like -chan, -san, -kun, -sama and -sensei. What is true and false about what I've just said? Can you give me some examples other than these, and are my examples relevant?

-In Japan, what is the most important between work and leisure? Is work one of the most important values of Japan? Do people have a lot of spare time? Do people "live in order to work" or "work in order to live"? Is work only for earning money, or do people identify with their job? Is it important to have a good job to be respected by other people?

-How are unemployment, sick leaves, part-time work and retirement regarded? Are their seen as normal and matter-of-fact, or are unemployed etc people looked down upon because they are "non-productive"?

-What about strikes and demonstrations? Are they seen as normal or condemned as "disturbing public order"? Do they often happen? What do they look like? What about trade unions? Are there trade unions from various political parties, and if there are, what are the names and "political colours" of the parties and of their corresponding trade unions? Are employees well defended by those trade unions?

-I've heard stereotypes about e.g. salarymen, karoshi and people that withdraw into themselves and refuse to work because of the pressure of heavy work conditions. What is true or false about them? Up to how many hours a week (including overtime hours) do average Japanese employees work? If they have health problem because of karoshi, what are the conditions for them to obtain indemnity? In other words, how is karoshi integrated in the Japanese law? Are Japanese employees badly considered by their employers, the employees and society if they refuse to do overtime hours? Do some employees sometime happen to spend the night at their work place or to work during the week-ends in order to get more work done?


And of course, if any of you wants to know what I think of the work conditions of my own country, I'll do my best to provide precise answers, that's fair enough ^^! Same thing if you want to know more about my piece of work about Japan.

[Gally]

(Sorry for writing a second message, but the first one is already long enough O_o)

Also, if some of you know Japanese movies, books etc that deal with one or several of the aspects I've mentioned (school system, karoshi, condition of women etc), any information would be welcome :).

[George L.]

Those are some excellent questions! I am anxiously awaiting the answers to them... ;)

I have one question to add that might even help you...

- How is unemployment dealt with? Here in the United States they have welfare w/ food stamps etc. Is there a similar system? And are there many homeless people that beg for money on the streets? No matter where you go in the US, there are always beggars who have no where to live and no jobs...what is it like in Japan?

Thanks for the great questions Gally!

:bow:

[Gally]

My, thank you too! Yes, your question IS helpful :).


Also, I forgot to ask about holidays. Do Japanese people have a lot of them? What do they usually use them for?

[Iron Chef]

Good questions Gally, all of them. I am by no means an authority on the subject and I can only speak for myself and my own experiences but I hope my repsonses may be of use to you with your project. I don’t think I answered all of your questions but hopefully some of the other members will chime in.

-In Japan, is equality promoted or is it important to succeed better than the others in order to "be someone"?
-What about the condition of women? Are they felt to be equal to men? Do they have to work more than men in order to get the same positions? Proportionally to men, do a lot of women occupy leading positions?

I decided to lump my response to both of the above questions as they are similar in nature. Re: equality in general, this has been a topic that’s been brought up before in the past. Check out the following link at your leisure (it is the most recent thread on the topic):

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5822

Generally speaking (and from my own personal experiences interacting with Japanese on a daily basis), women tend to be less assertive in the workplace in terms of seizing opportunities for advancement. That’s not to say that all employed women in Japan tend to be demure and timid but rather for many women, work is only a precursor to marriage. I’m sure that such a mindset has slowly started to change within the last decade but career-minded women outside of those employed in traditional capacities are few and far between.

At the public school where I worked while living in Sapporo my first time in Japan, we had 33 teachers with only four of those being female. During my stay there, two of those teachers left their profession entirely to become homemakers after getting married. Another took an extended leave of absence (about a year) after getting pregnant and having her baby but she did eventually return to teaching. Not sure if that example illustrates my point accurately but you get the picture. Interestingly enough, many of the more ambitious career-minded women I had met (college educated, some level of fluency in English, etc.) were more interested in employment opportunities abroad.

-Do colleagues get along well, or do they feel they are in competition with one another? Do they strive to be the first one to get a prestigious position in the hierarchy?

Again, from my experiences I never really encountered much in the way of inter-departmental friction so to speak. Most likely as a result of the inherent cultural differences the Japanese share (group harmony=top priority, etc.), such issues don’t really ever rise to the forefront enough to become a problem (although I am sure they do exist, it’s human nature after all).

Fraternization seems to be generally encouraged as well outside of the workplace after hours and this also lends towards building camaraderie between colleagues I think. I have seen on occasion several of my Japanese peers get particularly nasty with each other after they had a bit too much to drink, but I think that has more to do with their individual character than anything else.

-How are unemployment, sick leaves, part-time work and retirement regarded? Are their seen as normal and matter-of-fact, or are unemployed etc people looked down upon because they are "non-productive"?

Punctuality and showing up to work on a consistent basis are pretty much givens among the Japanese. Anything less is usually frowned upon. The same goes for being unemployed although that’s not to say it’s a social stigma. Such individuals usually live at home with the rest of the family while doing part-time jobs here and there until they can secure more solid long-term employment (kind of like some of my friends here in the U.S. actually 8-p).

-Is the Japanese society very hierarchical? Do the heads of companies generally treat their employees as equal or inferior to them? Do they happen to humiliate their employees? Do they earn a lot more money than them? Do employees take part in the decision processes of their companies, or do the "higher grades of the pyramid" decide for them?

Generally speaking, yes. Most companies or organizations (public, private, and non-profit sectors) still adhere to the traditional top-down hierarchy system with very little decentralization (for the most part). Ideas like participatory management are pretty obscure concepts in Japan. Instead, the Japanese seem to be more in tune with Frederick Taylor’s “One single best way to do any one thing” approach (if you are familiar with that line of thinking) with most of the major decision-making coming from the top down. Company heads tend to be very paternalistic in nature and from my experience have always been approachable. They do not show (at least I never witnessed any) condescension in the way they treat their subordinates or in how responsibilities were delegated.

-In Japan, what is the most important between work and leisure? Is work one of the most important values of Japan? Do people have a lot of spare time? Do people "live in order to work" or "work in order to live"? Is work only for earning money, or do people identify with their job? Is it important to have a good job to be respected by other people?

Work is definitely considered to be an important aspect of Japanese life. That being said, of course the Japanese can and do have an appreciation for the merits of leisure and personal recreation. For families with younger children, much of this revolves around spending as much time together on days off when all members can be together (visiting relatives, shopping, etc.)

Your typical salaryman will put in long hours during the regular workweek while the kids (if in school) will be busy with extracurricular activities like studying English, school clubs, etc. which does not leave them much free time for anything else later in the evening after they have finished their homework, etc. And of course the homemaker is constantly on the go trying to get all the necessary errands/duties done (shopping, doing laundry, preparing meals, etc.) while the husband is off at work and the kids in school. Needless to say, those precious few moments when the entire family can be together and relax in unison are far and few between.

[mad pierrot]

Should the Burakumin (sp?) be brought into this?

[Gally]

Originally posted by Iron Chef
Good questions Gally, all of them. I am by no means an authority on the subject and I can only speak for myself and my own experiences but I hope my repsonses may be of use to you with your project. I don’t think I answered all of your questions but hopefully some of the other members will chime in.

-In Japan, is equality promoted or is it important to succeed better than the others in order to "be someone"?
-What about the condition of women? Are they felt to be equal to men? Do they have to work more than men in order to get the same positions? Proportionally to men, do a lot of women occupy leading positions?

I decided to lump my response to both of the above questions as they are similar in nature. Re: equality in general, this has been a topic that’s been brought up before in the past. Check out the following link at your leisure (it is the most recent thread on the topic):

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5822

Generally speaking (and from my own personal experiences interacting with Japanese on a daily basis), women tend to be less assertive in the workplace in terms of seizing opportunities for advancement. That’s not to say that all employed women in Japan tend to be demure and timid but rather for many women, work is only a precursor to marriage. I’m sure that such a mindset has slowly started to change within the last decade but career-minded women outside of those employed in traditional capacities are few and far between.

At the public school where I worked while living in Sapporo my first time in Japan, we had 33 teachers with only four of those being female. During my stay there, two of those teachers left their profession entirely to become homemakers after getting married. Another took an extended leave of absence (about a year) after getting pregnant and having her baby but she did eventually return to teaching. Not sure if that example illustrates my point accurately but you get the picture. Interestingly enough, many of the more ambitious career-minded women I had met (college educated, some level of fluency in English, etc.) were more interested in employment opportunities abroad.

-Do colleagues get along well, or do they feel they are in competition with one another? Do they strive to be the first one to get a prestigious position in the hierarchy?

Again, from my experiences I never really encountered much in the way of inter-departmental friction so to speak. Most likely as a result of the inherent cultural differences the Japanese share (group harmony=top priority, etc.), such issues don’t really ever rise to the forefront enough to become a problem (although I am sure they do exist, it’s human nature after all).

Fraternization seems to be generally encouraged as well outside of the workplace after hours and this also lends towards building camaraderie between colleagues I think. I have seen on occasion several of my Japanese peers get particularly nasty with each other after they had a bit too much to drink, but I think that has more to do with their individual character than anything else.

-How are unemployment, sick leaves, part-time work and retirement regarded? Are their seen as normal and matter-of-fact, or are unemployed etc people looked down upon because they are "non-productive"?

Punctuality and showing up to work on a consistent basis are pretty much givens among the Japanese. Anything less is usually frowned upon. The same goes for being unemployed although that’s not to say it’s a social stigma. Such individuals usually live at home with the rest of the family while doing part-time jobs here and there until they can secure more solid long-term employment (kind of like some of my friends here in the U.S. actually 8-p).

-Is the Japanese society very hierarchical? Do the heads of companies generally treat their employees as equal or inferior to them? Do they happen to humiliate their employees? Do they earn a lot more money than them? Do employees take part in the decision processes of their companies, or do the "higher grades of the pyramid" decide for them?

Generally speaking, yes. Most companies or organizations (public, private, and non-profit sectors) still adhere to the traditional top-down hierarchy system with very little decentralization (for the most part). Ideas like participatory management are pretty obscure concepts in Japan. Instead, the Japanese seem to be more in tune with Frederick Taylor’s “One single best way to do any one thing” approach (if you are familiar with that line of thinking) with most of the major decision-making coming from the top down. Company heads tend to be very paternalistic in nature and from my experience have always been approachable. They do not show (at least I never witnessed any) condescension in the way they treat their subordinates or in how responsibilities were delegated.

-In Japan, what is the most important between work and leisure? Is work one of the most important values of Japan? Do people have a lot of spare time? Do people "live in order to work" or "work in order to live"? Is work only for earning money, or do people identify with their job? Is it important to have a good job to be respected by other people?

Work is definitely considered to be an important aspect of Japanese life. That being said, of course the Japanese can and do have an appreciation for the merits of leisure and personal recreation. For families with younger children, much of this revolves around spending as much time together on days off when all members can be together (visiting relatives, shopping, etc.)

Your typical salaryman will put in long hours during the regular workweek while the kids (if in school) will be busy with extracurricular activities like studying English, school clubs, etc. which does not leave them much free time for anything else later in the evening after they have finished their homework, etc. And of course the homemaker is constantly on the go trying to get all the necessary errands/duties done (shopping, doing laundry, preparing meals, etc.) while the husband is off at work and the kids in school. Needless to say, those precious few moments when the entire family can be together and relax in unison are far and few between.


Wow, thank you so much, your answers are very valuable and it looks like you spent a lot of time writing them too :D !


I have some questions about what you have said:

-Are there so many female homemakers in Japan? I imagined there were more women doing careers in companies and such.

-"Such individuals usually live at home with the rest of the family while doing part-time jobs here and there until they can secure more solid long-term employment (kind of like some of my friends here in the U.S. actually 8-p)": can they actually find a long-term full-time employment after doing part-time jobs? A female Japanese student of my mother's (my mother teaches French to non-French-speaking people and I was able to talk to this Japanese student for about... two minutes...) told me that young mothers who did part-time work weren't allowed to do full-time work afterwards.

-"Instead, the Japanese seem to be more in tune with Frederick Taylor’s “One single best way to do any one thing” approach (if you are familiar with that line of thinking)": I'm not ^^. Do you mean it is generally believed that it's better if one single person or only the top of the pyramid takes the decisions?


Also, what about holidays? Do Japanese people have a lot of them? When are they? How do they spend them?

[Iron Chef]

-Are there so many female homemakers in Japan? I imagined there were more women doing careers in companies and such.

Yes, many women still resign themselves to being the homemaker full-time after they get married. Some women do both (hold a career while being the homemaker) but by and large, there are very few career-minded women who focus solely on their work.

Re: Frederick Taylor and "Taylorism", Frederick Taylor wrote the principles of scientific management in 1911 which later became known as Taylorism. His own words re: scientific managment can be found here btw:

http://melbecon.unimelb.edu.au/het/taylor/sciman.htm

Basically, Taylorism is the idea that for any single action, there is one single best way to go about accomplishing that action. One should develop a "science" for every job, including rules motion, standardized work implements, and proper working conditions. Next, carefully select workers with the right abilities for the job. Subsequently, carefully train these workers to do the job, and give them proper incentives to cooperate with the job science. And finally, support these workers by planning their work and by smoothing the way as they go about their jobs. In essence that's Taylorism and from my own experiences, many Japanese buy into this model to various degrees.

-"Such individuals usually live at home with the rest of the family while doing part-time jobs here and there until they can secure more solid long-term employment (kind of like some of my friends here in the U.S. actually 8-p)": can they actually find a long-term full-time employment after doing part-time jobs? A female Japanese student of my mother's (my mother teaches French to non-French-speaking people and I was able to talk to this Japanese student for about... two minutes...) told me that young mothers who did part-time work weren't allowed to do full-time work afterwards.

From my understanding this is perfectly normal and there aren't any restrictions against doing so although I could be mistaken. Many young women for instance hold part-time jobs while living at home and simultaneously attending a university for instance. Once they have the proper academic credentials and or qualifications, then it is not uncommon for them to move on to bigger and better things. Part-time jobs are necessary for most young people nowadays in order to supply their lifestyles with the needed cash for clothing, accessories, cars, etc. I am not familiar with any concrete mandates re: young mothers not being allowed to return to work full-time after holding a part-time job but as I have already stated, many women after having children tend to resign themselves to being the homemaker and focus on raising their children.

-Also, what about holidays? Do Japanese people have a lot of them? When are they? How do they spend them?

Yes, the Japanese have many holidays. Nearly all businesses (except necessary or emergency services) close during the New Year's celebration for instance which is from January 1-3. Also important to note is that if a national holiday should fall on a Sunday for instance, the following Monday also becomes a holiday. There are many celbratory festivals throughout the year called "o-matsuri" and they celebrate everything from the changing fo the seasons, to farming (planting and harvesting), to prayers for family health, good fortune, prosperity, and so on and so forth. Some of the holidays the Japanese celebrate are as follows although I am sure I probably missed a few:

O-shogatsu (New Year's
Seijin no Hi (Adult's Day)
Kenkoku Kinenbi (National Foundation Day)
Shunbun no Hi (Vernal Equinox)
Midori no Hi (Arbor Day): This also starts Goruden Uiiku or "Golden Week" which includes three national holidays
Kenpo Kinenbi (Constitution Day)
Kodomo no Hi (Children's Day)
Keiro no Hi ("Respect for the Elderly Day" I guess you would call it...)
Shubun no Hi (Autumnal Equinox): This is usually when families make their annual visits to gravesites of relatives or friends btw.
Taiiku no Hi (Sports Day)
Bunka no Hi (Culture Day)
Kinro Kansha no Hi (Labor Appreciation Day)
Tenno Tanjo no Hi (Emperor's Birthday): Whic happens to be Dec. 23rd btw.
Setsubun (Bean-throwing ritual?)
Hina Matsuri (Doll Festival): Which used to be called Momo no Sekku or the "Festival of Peach Blossoms" on March 3rd.
Hana Matsuri (Buddha's Birthday)
Mei Day (Worker's Day)
Tanabata (Festival of Stars)
O-bon (All Soul's Festival)
Shichi-go-san (Children's Shrine Visiting Day or something like that I think lol)
Omisoka (traditionally New Year's Eve)

[Gally]

Wow, thanks, Iron Chef, precise, patient and detailed as usual ^_____^.


I still have a few questions (well, I've just thought about them):

-Are there long holidays, I mean, for example, two weeks in a row? I've heard some stereotype about completely exhausted people having two weeks of holidays and spending them on the coast in China. Obvisouly, this is only partly true or maybe even completely false.

-Are there a lot of girls in universities, proportionally to boys? Is it still considered (by the average populations, professors etc) strange for girls to go to uni, or has it become the normal way things are?

[Iron Chef]

Golden Week runs the longest (about five consecutive days off I think) and consists of:

April 29
Green Day (Midori no Hi)
May 3
Constitution Day (Kenpo Kinenbi)
May 4
"Between Day" (Kokumin no Kyujitsu)
May 5
Children's Day (Kodomo no Hi)

The Obon week in mid-August and the New year's period are also extended holidays.

Re: the demographic breakdown of gender in universities, I have no real clue as to what those numbers look like although I suspect that women have a slightly higher percentage than men in terms of enrollment.

[Gally]

Wow, thanks again :D! Now I've got a lot to tell in my 15-pages essay :)!

For how much time have you lived in japan, Iron Chef?

[Iron Chef]

Two years, although I am actually moving back next month now that i've finished grad school.
:)

[Gally]

Okay :). Must be great to live in Japan :D!

[mdchachi]

I didn't read Iron Chef's reply yet in order to give you my own opinions without parroting his.

I worked in Japan for almost 6 years but it was at a Japanese branch of an American company so I was never in a "typical" Japanese company.

In Japan, is equality promoted or is it important to succeed better than the others in order to "be someone"?

In general, promoting the individual is discouraged. Excellence is encouraged but it should be excellence of the group. Promotion by individual merit is rare and an idea that is only now starting to take hold.

Read Nakamura's story -- he is the man who performed ground-breaking research into the blue LED and got a bonus of $200 for his trouble.
http://www.japaninc.net/print.php?articleID=53
http://www.fpcj.jp/e/shiryo/jb/0236.html

What about the condition of women? Are they felt to be equal to men? Do they have to work more than men in order to get the same positions? Proportionally to men, do a lot of women occupy leading positions?

My first exposure to a woman "engineer" -- who was supposedly equal to the men we were dealing with -- was that she was the making copies and getting us coffee. Women are very limited in what they can achieve except in the most progressive companies (such as Sony). And even in those companies are still barriers.


-I've also heard that in Japanese, there are a lot of levels of formality and that the hierarchical relationships between people will always be strongly marked in the vocabulary and formality level used, for example in the way of saying "I" (boku VS ore VS watashi VS watakushi etc) or "you" (kimi VS anata etc etc) and in the use of suffixes like -chan, -san, -kun, -sama and -sensei. What is true and false about what I've just said? Can you give me some examples other than these, and are my examples relevant?


This is basically true. Though it's more a level of familiarity than some hard-to-fathom hierarchical thing. For example, I might speak to somebody very politely but as we become friends and get to know each other better, the forms would become more familiar.

More than pronouns or title-suffixes, though, the level of politeness is determined by the grammar and form of the verb used. There is self-deprecating forms for oneself and forms for elevating the stature of others.


-In Japan, what is the most important between work and leisure? Is work one of the most important values of Japan? Do people have a lot of spare time? Do people "live in order to work" or "work in order to live"? Is work only for earning money, or do people identify with their job? Is it important to have a good job to be respected by other people?


In general people have traditionally put work first but that is gradually changing. For working people, spare time is at a premium. Vacations longer than 7-10 days are rare. And even these "long" of vacations are normally taken by young, single people with disposable income and few responsibilities.


-What about strikes and demonstrations? Are they seen as normal or condemned as "disturbing public order"? Do they often happen? What do they look like? What about trade unions? Are there trade unions from various political parties, and if there are, what are the names and "political colours" of the parties and of their corresponding trade unions? Are employees well defended by those trade unions?


Strikes are rare but demonstrations are not uncommon. I think they are largely seen as normal but ineffective. Typically a demonstration will consist of a group of people holding signs and walking through the city and shouting through loudspeakers about their grievances. Political rallies look similar.

If they have health problem because of karoshi, what are the conditions for them to obtain indemnity? In other words, how is karoshi integrated in the Japanese law?

My understanding is that it is quite difficult to get recognition and compensation for karoshi. Only in the most severe cases does the family get compensation.

Are Japanese employees badly considered by their employers, the employees and society if they refuse to do overtime hours? Do some employees sometime happen to spend the night at their work place or to work during the week-ends in order to get more work done?


Refusing the demands of the workplace is likely to cause the employee grief. Working into the night and on weekends is not uncommon at all. Also common in Japan is that employees are expected to transfer to different locations per the company's wishes. Refusing these transfers are difficult and can result in career suicide. Therefore it is not uncommon for the father/husband to leave his family to work in other towns for a couple years at a time.

I hope this helps.

[George L.]

What about my question? :(

[Gally]

Originally posted by mdchachi
I didn't read Iron Chef's reply yet in order to give you my own opinions without parroting his.

I worked in Japan for almost 6 years but it was at a Japanese branch of an American company so I was never in a "typical" Japanese company.



In general, promoting the individual is discouraged. Excellence is encouraged but it should be excellence of the group. Promotion by individual merit is rare and an idea that is only now starting to take hold.

Read Nakamura's story -- he is the man who performed ground-breaking research into the blue LED and got a bonus of $200 for his trouble.
http://www.japaninc.net/print.php?articleID=53
http://www.fpcj.jp/e/shiryo/jb/0236.html



My first exposure to a woman "engineer" -- who was supposedly equal to the men we were dealing with -- was that she was the making copies and getting us coffee. Women are very limited in what they can achieve except in the most progressive companies (such as Sony). And even in those companies are still barriers.



This is basically true. Though it's more a level of familiarity than some hard-to-fathom hierarchical thing. For example, I might speak to somebody very politely but as we become friends and get to know each other better, the forms would become more familiar.

More than pronouns or title-suffixes, though, the level of politeness is determined by the grammar and form of the verb used. There is self-deprecating forms for oneself and forms for elevating the stature of others.



In general people have traditionally put work first but that is gradually changing. For working people, spare time is at a premium. Vacations longer than 7-10 days are rare. And even these "long" of vacations are normally taken by young, single people with disposable income and few responsibilities.



Strikes are rare but demonstrations are not uncommon. I think they are largely seen as normal but ineffective. Typically a demonstration will consist of a group of people holding signs and walking through the city and shouting through loudspeakers about their grievances. Political rallies look similar.



My understanding is that it is quite difficult to get recognition and compensation for karoshi. Only in the most severe cases does the family get compensation.



Refusing the demands of the workplace is likely to cause the employee grief. Working into the night and on weekends is not uncommon at all. Also common in Japan is that employees are expected to transfer to different locations per the company's wishes. Refusing these transfers are difficult and can result in career suicide. Therefore it is not uncommon for the father/husband to leave his family to work in other towns for a couple years at a time.

I hope this helps.


Yes, it does help, it is very helpful indeed and it completes and corroborates Iron Chef's account quite smoothly! Thank you! :happy:

I still have a few little questions:

-about the forms of the verb: like "desu" VS archaic forms like "de gozaru" for "to be" and "-kure" VS "-kudasai" etc for the imperative?

-"There is self-deprecating forms for oneself and forms for elevating the stature of others.": have you got any example?



George L: Sorry, what does "Burakumin" mean ^^?

[George L.]

I didn't mention Burakumin, Mad Pierott did...but Burakumin are a social group which has long been discriminated against. The word burakumin means 'people of the hamlet', a 19th century word used instead of words such as eta ("outcaste") and hinin ("nonhuman"). Discrimination is not legal, but these people are often refused jobs and accommodation. The group's origins are not clear, but in the Edo period they took work nobody else wanted; executions, leather work, and day labor, for example. Today, burakumin struggle to escape from their plight, but experience a familiar cycle: they are hampered because poor living conditions and education prevent them from obtaining good employment and low income leads to the next generation repeating the cycle. The number of burakumin probably ranges between two and three million or about 2% of the population. Although sometimes referred to as outcastes in English, the term is inappropriate because Japanese society was never organized in a manner similar to the caste system in South Asia.

:)

[Gally]

Originally posted by George L.
I didn't mention Burakumin, Mad Pierott did...but Burakumin are a social group which has long been discriminated against. The word burakumin means 'people of the hamlet', a 19th century word used instead of words such as eta ("outcaste") and hinin ("nonhuman"). Discrimination is not legal, but these people are often refused jobs and accommodation. The group's origins are not clear, but in the Edo period they took work nobody else wanted; executions, leather work, and day labor, for example. Today, burakumin struggle to escape from their plight, but experience a familiar cycle: they are hampered because poor living conditions and education prevent them from obtaining good employment and low income leads to the next generation repeating the cycle. The number of burakumin probably ranges between two and three million or about 2% of the population. Although sometimes referred to as outcastes in English, the term is inappropriate because Japanese society was never organized in a manner similar to the caste system in South Asia.

:)


Oops, sorry for confusing, and thankks for the explanation!

About unemployment and beggars, I found on the Internet the (firsthand ^^!) account of an American who had worked in Japan for several years and taken interesting pictures. He said the Japanese government always claimed there was no poverty in Japan, but some of his pictures proved that in e.g. train stations, beggars could be found sleeping at night.

[Golgo_13]

I wrote this as per Gally's request but it's for everyone esle to read as well.

My Experience in a Japanese Primary School :note:

The last school I attended was Takeshiro-Dai Public Primary School in Senboku Newtown in Sakai-city, Osaka-prefecture (about an hour south of the center of the city of Osaka by train). I spent slightly over 3 months as a 6th grader there--from April (when the new school year begins in Japan) to July of 1972. Here's a short summary of that experience, and compared to the public primary school I attended in the U.S. from September of '72 to June of '73 (P.S. 173 in Flushing, Queens, NY).

We went to school 6 days a week. Monday through Friday were full days; Saturday was half a day. Each day was divided up into class periods about 45 minutes long with a short break between classes. Each day we had one period each of mathematics, Japanese, science, social studies, music, art, and physical education (i.e., gym). Civics and home economics were taught once a week each. At the American school, students were at the teacher's mercy as to what subject matters were learned and how much time spent on each.

In science in Japan, kids do hands-on experiments as well as going on field trips to collect plants or insects. In the U.S., science was not taught everyday, and even when it was, it was exclusively from textbooks. Yet, each year kids were expected to produce something for a "science project".

Social studies in Japan also involved field research as well as textbooks. In one project, kids were divided into groups of 6 and assigned to make a street map of the neighborhood. In fact, many other activities are done in these groups called "han" and each gives itself a name like sports teams. In the U.S., social studies meant reading a chapter in a textbook and answering some questions at the end of that chapter.

Music education did not exist in the American public school I attended. In all Japanese schools music is taught from the 1st grade on and consists of more than just singing kiddie songs. Kids are taught how to read musical notes and every kid is given an opportunity to play an instrument, albeit a cheap plastic flute. Musical notes are taught as "do, re, mi, fa, so, etc.", which is immensely easier and more fun for little kids to learn than teaching notes as "C, D, E, F, G, etc." At the higher grades, kids compose and perform their own short musical pieces.

When we had an art class in the U.S. we were basically told to draw, using crayons. In Japan, crayons are used only at the kindergarten level. In primary schools, water color is used to familiarize students in using a brush for painting. Calligraphy of Kanji is also practiced with a brush and black ink. Different painting and drawing techniques are taught. We often went outdoors to paint landscapes.

In the U.S. physical education was non-existent. Gym meant being handed a ball and being told to play dodge ball once a week, or line up and shoot foul shots. In Japan, basic gymnastics and track & field are taught, and all kids are tested extensively in strength, flexibility, agility, and speed, among other qualities. If no appreciable improvements are seen from year to year in strength or speed, a kid might be told to shape up a bit. For class, kids change into standard white training top and shorts. Each spring, a sports day is held on a Sunday (to allow dads to come and watch) and kids are divided into a Red team and a White team and compete in various competitive events, culminating in the tug-of-war.

What am I leaving out? . . . oh yes, lunch! In Japanese schools, lunch is provided for every student (for a monthly fee) and all kids eat the same thing. Eating is done in the classroom instead of in a cafeteria. Each day, a different "han" or group is assigned to go to the kitchen area; carry the food, bowls, plates, and utensils back to the class; and set up a serving line and they serve the other kids. The leader of a han is called the "hanchou" (and this is the origin of the American slang "the head honcho," which was picked up by American GIs from Japanese POWs). Generally, a meal consisted of milk, bread, butter, some type of stew or soup, one vegetable and one fruit. A traditional Japanese fare of rice, miso soup, pickles and fish is never served in a school. No one is allowed to bring their own food from home.

After lunch, the kids get about 30 minutes of free time to do as they please. Many go outside to play on the various jungle gyms or other gymnastics equipment or play tag or dodge ball. However, kids are discouraged from taking naps unless they're feeling ill.

After the recess, the kids don't go right to the next lesson. First, they clean their classroom!!!!!! Yes, they put the seats on the desks and move all the desks back, sweep and mop the floor, and clean the windows. Try making kids do that in the U.S. and the school board gets slapped with a lawsuit from a parent for illegal child labor!

On Saturdays, which ends before lunch, in addition to the major academic subjects taught, the kids hold a class meeting or discussion. The duly-elected class president leads the discussion and the kids talk about any problems within the class, ways to resolve them, or any other appropriate subject matter.

About once a month we had a field trip. The lower grades go to parks or amusement parks, but the higher grades usually went on hikes to the nearest mountains. And for 6th graders only, in May there is an over-night trip to a distant destination. Most schools in the Osaka area send the kids to Ise, a port city in the Mie-prefecture that is famous for a Shinto Shrine and also for the cultured pearls produced there. We got to stay in a Ryokan with an indoor onsen. We saw many Gaijin tourists there and my classmates all yelled out "Haro" to them, whereas I freaked out the Americans with my New York-accented English (for grades 3 and 4 I had lived in New York as well).

Well, that's all I can remember. It was more than 30 years ago. I welcome any questions or comments as always.

[Golgo_13]

Answering Gally's questions from her thread

1. Is it important for them to obtain the best marks as it is possible?

Yes, but effort is more important than good grades. Not everyone is a scientist in Japan and there are many people who are manual laborers, and these people do not unduly put pressure on their kids to get good grades but to just do their best.

2. Are they encouraged to be very conformistic, or to develop a strong critical spirit and an ability to take personal decisions?

Depends on the individual student and his /her family. You cannot generalize.

3. For example, if a teenager or a university student thinks a teacher or professor is wrong, are they allowed to say it?

Yes, as long as it's done politely. I have done it. Politeness to a teacher is more important than pointing out his mistakes.

4. How is a child that doesn't do well at school treated by its parents, the teachers and the other children?

Again, depends on the individual. Some parents might get tutoring for a failing child. Others might tell him to plan to get a job after middle school. Some teachers are supportive while others do not care how a student is performing. Kids don't care about other kids (at least at the primary school level because they don't share report card grades)

5. About stereotypes, I've heard that, for example, only the best students were allowed to go to prestigious universities like Toudai or the Kyouto imperial university, that there were pretty difficult university entrance examinations and that there existed a strong hierarchy between the holders of a diploma from Toukyou Daigaku etc and people from less good universities.

This is NOT a stereotype. It's a fact. Everything else you have here is stereotype. All high schools in Japan have entrance exams, and the elite academies have very difficult tests. It's no different from any other country. My law firm only recruits from Harvard, Columbia, USC and other top law schools. An Oxford University graduate has a better shot at getting a job than someone who graduated from a city college in Brooklyn, NY.

6. And also that because of social pressure, some teenagers will commit suicide if they fail in an exam.

Some might, but not very many. If a student doesn't get into the school of his/her choice, then he/she will settle for the school next level down.

Teen suicide exists in the U.S. as well, but for reasons other than academic achievement.

[Mashu]

Your article is informative but also EXTREMELY bias. I actually find it somewhat offense towards the American education system.

[Iron Chef]

Thread merged...

[nihonjintaylor]

Originally posted by Mashu
Your article is informative but also EXTREMELY bias. I actually find it somewhat offense towards the American education system.

here is something you should read about the American school system..

http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm


about the working...

wow You guys really went in deep.

Me, I have only worked two times in Japan.

Once was at a kingergarten(I also taught private english lessons) and the other time was at a english conversation school.

I don't think the jobs in Japan are differen't than anywhere else, except for the fact that the job is taken more seriously because of the mass number of people and how soon you could be "replaced"

So I always tried to arrive up to an hour early and work about half an hour longer than what I was scheduled for.

other than that... I'm not sure much more that I could add...

Good luck~

[Ghost]

Originally posted by nihonjintaylor
here is something you should read about the American school system..

http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm

Good luck~


I agree, school made me feel more braindead than smart. I only got where I am now cuse I got out and teached my self. The only thing school was good for was lunch and making friends.

[Golgo_13]

Originally posted by Mashu
Your article is informative but also EXTREMELY bias. I actually find it somewhat offense towards the American education system.


It's "biased".


You were educated in the U.S.? I rest my case.


Of course I"m biased!!!! Toward something that gave me a better education. Who wouldn't be? Ask any American family in Japan who sends their kids to Japanese primary school.

I did not compare a Japanese school that I ATTENDED to the ENTIRE AMERICAN EDUCATION SYSTEM, or to the school you may have attended.

I compared it to a New York City public school I ATTENDED. Everything I said is FACT--TRUTH. Though it was about 30 years ago and things may be quite different today, THAT was how I saw it and experienced it. This essay was NOT a comparison of CURRENT education systems in both nations, it was my EXPERIENCE!!!! Did you have reading in school?

There were NO music, art, phys. ed., hands-on science, etc. at the NYC school. In the 6th grade they were teaching math that I 'd learned in the 3rd grade in Japan. If you're so offended by that, why don't you go complain to the New York City Bd. of Ed.? Or start false rumors about Japanese schools you've never even come close to attending?

The truth really hurts, doesn't it?

[Gally]

Thank you all for your answers :D.


Well, we're ALL biased, aren't we? Nobody can claim to be 100% objective, there's nothing wrong with subjectivity since we're only in our own mind (sounds like a crappy pseudo-philosophical truth, but it's pure logic, is it). That's why it's interesting to have several accounts to see if they confirm each other on some points. And there's nothing wrong with showing some critical spirit towards the school system of our own country, on the opposite!

[Golgo_13]

Originally posted by Iron Chef
Thread merged...

Whenever you do that please try to inform the original poster by e-mail so that individual doesn't go insane trying to figure out what happened to the original post.

LIKE I DID! :p :p

Domo

[George L.]

The American education system as a whole is pretty much a joke...if you can't see that then your not really looking...third world contries that have half of what the poorest people in America have and they are still better educated...I wish that I had had the opportunity to study in Japan all through my childhood...I have had 2 foreign exchange students stay w/ me...one Chinese and on Japanese...I was at the same grade level they were at in thier contries. We took several classes together (in math and english), and both of them couldn't believe this was the level we were at...I remember the Chinese exchange student saying to me that she had learned what we were doing in Calculus in 6th grade in China...everyone knows that America has one of the poorest education systems in the world...and just looking at other countries education will prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt! I don't mean to be rude or argumentative in anyway and I hope that I haven't offended you, but that is the cold hard fact no matter how you look at it.

:bow:

[Golgo_13]

George L.,

"third world contries that have half of what the poorest people in America have and they are still better educated..."

I'm with you on that. The average SAT score in the tiny island nation of Barbados in the Caribbean is HIGHER than the average SAT score of high school students in the U.S.

[Mashu]

Originally posted by nihonjintaylor
here is something you should read about the American school system..

http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm


about the working...

wow You guys really went in deep.

Me, I have only worked two times in Japan.

Once was at a kingergarten(I also taught private english lessons) and the other time was at a english conversation school.

I don't think the jobs in Japan are differen't than anywhere else, except for the fact that the job is taken more seriously because of the mass number of people and how soon you could be "replaced"

So I always tried to arrive up to an hour early and work about half an hour longer than what I was scheduled for.

other than that... I'm not sure much more that I could add...

Good luck~ This teacher has an anarchist point of view towards education. He uses evidence from the 1800's and early 1900's to support his reasoning. The examples of self-taught, historical figures are remarkable people and geniuses but they occur extremely rare in society. They are exceptions to 99% of the population. And what is this "teacher's" plans when the majority of Americans become of working age but have very little usable skills. How do you expect them to support America's economy? You do know if people are given the choice they will almost always take the easiest path in life, which includes not going to school. His examples are of when most people worked of farms or did some kind of manual labor. Not the present.

[Mashu]

Originally posted by Golgo_13
It's "biased".


You were educated in the U.S.? I rest my case.


Of course I"m biased!!!! Toward something that gave me a better education. Who wouldn't be? Ask any American family in Japan who sends their kids to Japanese primary school.

I did not compare a Japanese school that I ATTENDED to the ENTIRE AMERICAN EDUCATION SYSTEM, or to the school you may have attended.

I compared it to a New York City public school I ATTENDED. Everything I said is FACT--TRUTH. Though it was about 30 years ago and things may be quite different today, THAT was how I saw it and experienced it. This essay was NOT a comparison of CURRENT education systems in both nations, it was my EXPERIENCE!!!! Did you have reading in school?

There were NO music, art, phys. ed., hands-on science, etc. at the NYC school. In the 6th grade they were teaching math that I 'd learned in the 3rd grade in Japan. If you're so offended by that, why don't you go complain to the New York City Bd. of Ed.? Or start false rumors about Japanese schools you've never even come close to attending?

The truth really hurts, doesn't it? I said the article is biased, not you. I accept everything in your article is factual. I'm just saying the article is poorly written because you provide no comparable evidence. You're comparing apples to oranges. Your article is comparing the best aspect of Japan's education to some of the worst aspect's in America's. The article would be better if you'd compare the best parts of one education to the best parts of another showing how the first's is better. Then you could do this same thing with the worst parts.

By the way, if Japanese schools are so superior to those in America, then you should know that personal attacks make the worst argument.

[kirei_na_me]

I wrote a huge reply to this, but I decided not to post it.

Let's just say that coming from a family of fed-up public school teachers, I know how crooked the American public school system can be. Mind you, not all education in this country is of poor quality. It varies from state to state, county to county, community to community. Inner city schools might not have the support that a small town might have, such as a lack of funding because that funding has to go around to a lot of schools. There are many, many, many factors here.

There are two sides to everything, people. Some might say that the U.S. is too relaxed about schooling, but then I've had Japanese people tell me horror stories of how much pressure they had to deal with daily, because of school. I'm thinking Japan spends more tax money on education in comparison to the U.S. too. Anyone have any statistics?

I just think we need to think about the reasons behind something before we go around throwing insults. There are just so many things that come into play when dealing with this kind of topic.

[Iron Chef]

"Whenever you do that please try to inform the original poster by e-mail so that individual doesn't go insane trying to figure out what happened to the original post."

Sure thing. And maybe next time you'll just tack on your reply to the existing thread instead of starting your own and splintering the discussion.
:)

[Mandylion]

I can only speak from my immediate situation and experience. I am a board of education employee (ie public servant) so my experiences and environment are quite different versus a private corporation. Please keep that in mind as you read. I also paraphrased in the quotes to cut down on the length. Sorry if it makes things hard to follow. My responses were written in response to the full statements.

Originally posted by Gally
-In Japan, is equality promoted or is it important to succeed better than the others in order to "be someone"?

I think that in any corporate structure you are going to have hierarchy and people who want to climb up it. Your job title does help to identify you, and while in the US you might here a "Good morning, Bob. Good morning, Sally." between a boss and her secretary, you will not hear such an informal exchange in a Japanese workplace (discounting the fact that the boss would probably not be female to begin with). However, I think you will find a drive to be promoted in an corporation, Japanese or otherwise.

Originally posted by Gally
--How is it reflected in the education of children? Is it important for them to obtain the best marks as it is possible? Are they encouraged to be very conformistic, or to develop a strong critical spirit and an ability to take personal decisions?... I've heard that, for example, only the best students ... go to prestigious universities ... that there were pretty difficult university entrance examinations... and that there existed a strong hierarchy between the holders of a diploma from Toukyou Daigaku etc and people from less good universities...In other words, what does actually happen in Japanese schools and universities?

I would be pleasantly stunned if a student ever corrected me or challenged my opinions to my face. Expressing my opinion in class, on say the residency tax issue, or child abduction by Japanese nationals, often must be accompanied by the disclaimer "it is important to make up your own mind on the issue, not just listen to me." There is a feeling in education that the only people who get to be creative are the folks who have mastered the art. When you learn by imitation and are graded accordingly, you can't help but become "conformistic." If I spun a big enough tale, I could probably tell them that I ran into Beat Takeshi (a famous comedian) in a bar in Osaka, we painted the town red, and I am going to visit him over spring break. After I got past the initial disbelief, if I really pushed it home, I could use my position to convince them of anything, simply because I carry all the moral authority that comes with a teacher.

I feel it is still very true that the place your diploma came from is as or more important that what you studied when it comes to getting a good job. The pressure is to get into a good school. Once you are there, it is pretty darn hard to flunk out. So pressure to do well on entrance exams is fairly intense. A whole industry has grown to meet this desire, and sure, some kids do commit suicide if they don't get in. I personally have never known anyone to do this, but you hear of it from time to time.

Marks seem to be less important that how you will do on the final test (entrance exams).Grades are less an indicator of potential than a view into how well they paid attention and were able to memorize. Even the kid in one of my classes who sleeps, scores 20% on exams and in general is as thick as a brick will not be held back a year or disciplined because of his/her low grades. I have heard, though not related to him/her directly, that taking such actions against a student would hurt his/her self-esteem. Of course, not much is expected from them, as they can't do well on tests and get into a good school, but neither is he/she being dragged kicking and screaming into special classes to being his/her grades up.


Originally posted by Gally
--Do colleagues get along well, or do they feel they are in competition with one another? Do they strive to be the first one to get a prestigious position in the hierarchy?

Since being a public servant is a bit like being in the military (if you do your time you move up) there is not a lot of pressure to compete with your coworkers. If anything there is competition at a broader level between departments to do a better job than the next office two towns over, but it is far from cut-throat.

Originally posted by Gally
--What about the condition of women? Are they felt to be equal to men? Do they have to work more than men in order to get the same positions? Proportionally to men, do a lot of women occupy leading positions?

Here we get into tricky water culturally and socially. While the standard practice of women leaving their jobs once they get married or have children might seem sexist to western vaules, to the women involved it might not seem that way at all. Being a housewife/mother is a major force in Japanese society and a very respected position. They often control the home, the finances, raise the children, and before a force to be reckoned with. They can set their own schedules to a much greater extent than their husbands and they don't have to put up with all the stuff he goes through at work (drinking to late hours, long, long bouts of "voluntary" overtime etc.) Many women I have spoken to find domestic life to fit them just fine. It is not that they haven¡¯t been out in the world, they have made the choice that they want to stay at home.

What needs to be looked at through a more exacting lens however, are the conditions that surround a woman's choice to leave the workforce. If there is active or subconscious pressure on the part of co-workers and employers to edge the woman out of her position or imply she is a bad wife/mother if she doesn't leave, then red flags should be going up all over the place. However, here we get into the gray areas that often confound cross-cultural analysis. This is when it becomes important to talk directly to the women themselves (both the ones who stayed and the ones who left), or rely on studies that have done so, in forming a picture of women in the Japanese workplace. I will go no further than saying that often when trying to apply western standards to the status of women in the workplace, it becomes a much trickier issue than many would like.

There are plenty of stats out there on women vs. men in the workplace out there (numbers of employment and such) and as I don't have them at hand, I won' comment. In my situation, the women / men balance in terms of employees is balanced quite well as well as at the two schools I visit. One elementary school has a female vice principal, and I am told it is not uncommon to have female principals as well. Both of my immediate bosses have also been women, as well as a female section chief (bucho) before the last standard cycle of departmental transfers.

Originally posted by Gally
--I've also heard that in Japanese, there are a lot of levels of formality and that the hierarchical relationships between people will always be strongly marked in the vocabulary and formality level used. What is true and false about what I've just said?

Your statement is true. Business and social life is usually clearly stated or implied by language and other means of social communication. In my experience people are often clearly aware of the hierarchy around them and where they fit. However, I have read that in the larger corporations, there has been a move away form the use of titles and suffixes on peoples' names to encourage a free exchange of ideas.

Originally posted by Gally
--In Japan, what is the most important between work and leisure? Is work one of the most important values of Japan? ... Is it important to have a good job to be respected by other people?

There is still a strong ethic to put in long hours at work. This is even more so that the economy is depressed. As for working for a sense of identity, "teacher" is a status position in Japan that carries with it social responsibilities beyond the classroom. If this sense of identity transfers into other professions I am in no position to say. I would say there is a normal amount job-identity association in my situation.

Originally posted by Gally
--How are unemployment, sick leaves, part-time work and retirement regarded? Are their seen as normal and matter-of-fact, or are unemployed etc people looked down upon because they are "non-productive"?

People often do not take vacation outside of the normal holidays. Doing so would mean canceling classes or closing up city hall, something the public sector cannot easily do. There are slow times and heavy times when no one takes vacation, and I have never known a public school teacher to take a special holiday unless it is for something like a funeral or wedding (weddings are often at night or on the weekend to accommodate this.) Part-time work and retirement are viewed as normal depending on the stage of life someone is in. I have no experience with unemployed people in Japan, but I think others consider the situations that cost that person their job when making a moral judgment on unemployment.

That said, I have heard of trends with recent graduates from college that they also want a higher quality of life in terms of leisure time and family time when the go looking for a job. This apparently surprises the old-timers and recruiters. Things might be changing. There is certainly more talk these days that time outside of work is important too.

Originally posted by Gally
--What about strikes and demonstrations? ... Do they often happen? What do they look like? What about trade unions? ... what are the names and "political colours" of the parties and of their corresponding trade unions? Are employees well defended by those trade unions?

Unions are often co-opted into the corporate structure when they are at a nascent stage, thus cutting of any real route for strike. I cannot recall a strike in all my time in Japan. The most vocal unions I know of are ones made up by, and mainly for, foreigners (NOVA's comes to mind, I know they have a website). I do not know of any political associations.

Originally posted by Gally
--I've heard stereotypes about e.g. salarymen, karoshi and people that withdraw into themselves and refuse to work because of the pressure of heavy work conditions. ... what are the conditions for them to obtain indemnity? In other words, how is karoshi integrated in the Japanese law? Are Japanese employees badly considered by their employers, the employees and society if they refuse to do overtime hours? Do some employees sometime happen to spend the night at their work place or to work during the week-ends in order to get more work done?


The lower down the ladder you are, the more initial enthusiasm you need to show at work. This means long hours of overtime for which people often won't report. From what I know, the courts have been slow to act in cases when a person or family claims damages against an employer. Also, there is no system of punitive damages in Japan. You can only sue and be awarded an amount in real terms. No multi-million dollar karoshi settlements.
Since I am a contract worker, I do not have to do overtime. In fact they send me home to prevent it. My fiance, on the other hand, is more typical. She will go to work most days around 9 or 10 am and not get back from work until 11pm (early day) or 1 am. The vast majority of this time is overtime, for which she doesn't report on her timecard. No one at her company does. Doing so would be seen as selfish. Even when she gets home she has to get ready for the next day, often not making it to bed until 3am or 4am. If she didn't do overtime, it would reflect poorly on her and her chances for promotion. While she has never spent the night at work, she has gone several weeks working her off-days as well, or doing other things the company has asked her to do. It doesn't help that she is one of only a few employees who can do her type of work (and that she does it so well).

Needless to say, she is quitting in late March. She will have lasted about one year.

Originally posted by Gally
---Are there so many female homemakers in Japan? I imagined there were more women doing careers in companies and such.

All of the married women in my office or that I know have at some point been a housewife. The Japanese corporate structure and environment is not conducive to female executives nor high promotion. The New York Times did a nice article on this. It would be worth your time to check out their online archives. It might cost you a few bucks, but the NYTimes is much more reliable source than this BB www.nytimes.com

Originally posted by Gally
---"can they (housewives) actually find a long-term full-time employment after doing part-time jobs? A female Japanese student and I was able to talk ... for about... two minutes... told me that young mothers who did part-time work weren't allowed to do full-time work afterwards.

"Weren't allowed" is probably wrong. They might meet considerable difficulty. Some of it is structural (it is very hard to find daycare in Japan) and part social. Older moms (who have been moms longer/ have older kids) certainly can go back to work. All of the married women I work with have been stay-at-home moms before, including the vice-principal I mentioned. However, keep in mind I do work in education, a traditional place for women to work, and so the environment might be more accepting that the larger corporate world.

[Mandylion]

Thougth about the e-mail thing, decided not to :)

[mad pierrot]

Education.......has its problems.

I work at 13 schools here in Wakayama, 9 Elementary and 4 Junior Highs. Personally, I'd rather have gone to school here (in Wakayama's countryside) than in Chicago.

FOR EXAMPLE:
All the schools I teach at are small. One of my schools has only 13 students total for all grades 1-6. I've even seen classes with just one student and a teacher! Awesome! I wish I had that. (Of course, this example doesn't apply to any of Japan's urban population.)

That's just me.
(Two pennies drop on a counter.)

[Gally]

Thanks, Mandylion, your account is very valuable as well :D!


Mad pierrot, you work in 13 different schools!? Wow... How are you able to manage that O_o? You must spend a lot of time going from one school to another, mustn't you?

[mad pierrot]

Eh, it ain't so bad.
I'm on a weekly rotational basis. The Board of Education I work for pays a taxi to drive me to all my schools. Which is strange, because some of my school are a half an hour away.....

:p

[Gally]

Wow, it must be very interesting to be allowed to meet so many different people. But tell me, I think your testimony as well would be very useful for my piece of work, since you work at so many different places. Have you noticed some similarities in the work conditions and education system of the 13 schools you worked at?

[Golgo_13]

Originally posted by Iron Chef
And maybe next time you'll just tack on your reply to the existing thread instead of starting your own and splintering the discussion.
:)

Sure thing.

I thought a discussion about Japanese education/schools and responses thereto might merit a separate topic from a discussion about the work place.

[Golgo_13]

Originally posted by mad pierrot
Education.......has its problems.

I work at 13 schools here in Wakayama

When you go into Osaka do you take Nakai trains or JR?

[mad pierrot]

I usually take the JR rapid service from Gobo when I go to Osaka. Man, I wish I lived there... :bawling:

Oh well. Yes, I do notice similarities at all the schools. Basically, I am an employee of my town's Board of Education. They use me in what ever way they see fit. What would you like to know? I am paid well, far better than any normal teacher in Japan would be paid as a first time teacher. Most of what I could tell you would be a little biased, since I am new to the Japanese working world. Golgo_13 where do (or did) you work?

[Golgo_13]

When I lived in Japan I was too young to work

All my working years were spent in NYC and now in LA

[nihonjintaylor]

Originally posted by mad pierrot
Eh, it ain't so bad.
I'm on a weekly rotational basis. The Board of Education I work for pays a taxi to drive me to all my schools. Which is strange, because some of my school are a half an hour away.....

:p

Are you of some great importance there?

Because I was thinking of working at a place where I knew I would have to go around to about 6-7 differen't schools... But I can't drive and my wife is pregnant... so I decided not to apply to the place.

I live in the country so it's not really a matter of walking from the train it's getting from place to place...

and the idea of a taxi never hit me...
so how exactly doest it work? they pay all the taxi fee's or just half and the train fee? or...?

could you go into detail?

[Golgo_13]

Originally posted by Mashu
I'm just saying the article is poorly written because you provide no comparable evidence.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Your article is comparing the best aspect of Japan's education to some of the worst aspect's in America's. The article would be better if you'd compare the best parts of one education to the best parts of another showing how the first's is better.

An essay about one's own personal experience requires no evidence. If I ask you to tell me about your vacation in Europe I don't ask for "comparable evidence."

I did not describe the worst aspect of American education. That was the BEST that NYC public school had to offer (in 1973).

I can't think of anything I liked better about that school than the one in Japan, other than that it was very easy for me to get good grades in the U.S. school.

Contrary to popular belief regarding academic pressures in Japan, I was never stressed out as a 6th grade student in Japan. I always had plenty of time to play with my friends, and my friends were no different. I still studied hard to score high on exams, but in the U.S. I barely cracked a book and still did well.

My cousins always had time for school sports teams. They were perfectly happy to go to average-rated colleges. Academic pressure is not widespread as many Americans are led to believe. Cousins on my redneck side of the family knew they weren't going to college, so they went to vocational high schools.

Not all kids in the U.S. aspire to attend Ivy League colleges. But there are some who do, and put themselves under a lot of pressure to try to get in. It's a personal matter, not societal.

Not THAT much different in Japan.

[mad pierrot]

Golgo, what is your job? Just curious. NYC and LA are some happening places....

About the taxi: Honestly, I'm not aware of the details other than that I don't have to pay anything. The BOE pays for it all. I have a vague idea that for insurance reasons the don't want me driving, but it's just speculation. Considering I live next to a train station and a bus stop transportation has never been an issue for me.

[Golgo_13]

Piero-san,

In my 20s I was a TV talent, actor, comedian, and a romance cover model in NYC.

At the age 30 I suffered from a massive brain tumor and underwent 7 surgeries over a 3 year period. Various facial nerves were damaged on one side of my face so I retired from show business. I began studying Chi Kung to aid in my healing.

I tried teaching math in high school but it was much too stressful and I couldn't make ends meet on the salary.

I answered an ad in "Back Stage", an actors' trade paper for a job as an "evening shift" paralegal at the biggest corporate law firm in NYC (and probably the U.S.). The place was (and still is) so busy they need paralegals in three shifts around the clock.

In 1996 I moved to LA and transferred to the firm's LA office, but a year later left to take a position as a legal proofreader at a different firm, where I remain to this day.

In addition, I have published numerous articles in health & fitness magazines, do some translation work, give Chi Kung healing treatments, and give private lessons in Chi Kung.

Do I like LA or NYC? I can't say. I like both.

[mad pierrot]

Awesome.

I'm just curious; which magazines did you write for? I used to have a ton of Ironman magazines and stuff like that.

[Golgo_13]

"Muscle Mag International", a Cannada-based magazine also available in U.S.

If you're a serious lifter I'll send you copies saved on PDF.

[mad pierrot]

Muscle Mag!
I might even have a few copies somewhere.
Yes, send away. I was into powerlifting for quite some time.

[Golgo_13]

Piero no niichan,

I'll send you one of the following articles to begin with. Choose one:

"Emotions that Strengthen You" (Editorial)

"Psychological Benefits of Intense Training" (Editorial)

"Pre-Exhaustion for Upper Back Thickness" (instructional article)

"A Solo Ascent on Mt. Intensity" (instructional)

Send me your e-mail address via Private Message here. Are there any decent places to train in Japan? Just in case I spend more than a week or so there.

[TuskCracker]

At the public school where I worked while living in Sapporo my first time in Japan, we had 33 teachers with only four of those being female.

In America, in public school most teachers are women (except Physical Ed).

Punctuality and showing up to work on a consistent basis are pretty much givens among the Japanese.

Thats seems to have faded in America. When I worked in the 1970's-1985 it was important. Today in America, especially Hi-tech workers its not so.


Fraternization seems to be generally encouraged as well outside of the workplace after hours and this also lends towards building camaraderie between colleagues I think.

In United States rarely do we really like getting togethor on or own time with people we work with.

Also common in Japan is that employees are expected to transfer to different locations per the company's wishes. Refusing these transfers are difficult and can result in career suicide.

Only senior excutives are expected to transfer at someones whim. The common worker is usually offered a good deal. Many turn it down for family reasons. Thats unless that the job you took told you that transfer was part of the assignment.