My Rant for this Forum.

[noyhauser]

Okay,its taken me this long to build up enough steam to write this, but its finally happened. This is a evil evil rant, and most likely people's feelings will get hurt. And it is not aimed at all people here, there are a few people with some intelligence... but they are few and far between.

I watch Anime, I have since I was 4 Years old and I'm 22 now. I watch it casually and am not a major otaku in the best sense of the world. Often I get tapes, dvds ect from my family in Japan, often I just rent or borrow a copy of something from a friend or store. Anime does not consume my life, but I do watch a lot of it for fun and to listen to japanese.

That said I think I have a fair place to judge a bit on anime and the discussion that goes on here. Let me explain. First I am going to make some general observations.

#1 The level of true anime discussion on this board is appaling. I'm sorry but it has to be said. I could go on and post big writeups about general themes in Anime, stuff like film studies of anime (is Spike from Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III incarnate??). But I won't, because there isn't anime discussion on here. All I see is :
Ohhh I like Inuyaha, oooh Onegai teacher is cool, Chii is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cute.

Have some bleeding discussion on here please..


#3 Watching poorly dubbed versions of Japanese Anime is not watching anime. Inuyasha is a second rate anime series in Japan, no matter how you cut it. Its story line is marginal and its art ain't much better. Dubbing it is horrendous, and more or less stripps of any claim to be a good anime series.

Ruruoni Kenshin on the other hand is very good in Japan, up until the end of the Kyoto arc It is one of the only series I own in full. BUT .What they did to the series when they brought it over and called it Samurai X was a discrace...

#3 OOOH GUNDAM....
Gundam Wing and ZZ are honsetly two of the worst series in the franchise, but that aint saying much about the rest of it anyways because it aint much better. Actually to be honest I can't even watch wing without pulling out a bucket and puking. The first series 0079 Uc in 1979 was revolutionary, yes. But since then its gone down hilll BIG TIME. You want to see a amazing series, go watch Macross, which is pretty well some of the most thought out and beautiful anime ever done, and features far more character development and believabilty than Gundam ever will. Actually Macross pretty well is considered the epitome of smart science fiction, only evangaleon (with its dark religious message) comes close and that was done by the same guy.

#4 Spirited Away is not Miyazaki's best film. Even he acknowelges this. Go watch My Friend Totoro, Porco Rosso, City in the Sky LAputa or the greatest one, Nausicaa. Miyazaki actually did two volumes of manga for Nausicaa... he didn't do anything for Spirited away. Nausicaa was sooo deep and intresting, I forgot about Spirited Away 30 minutes after I stopped watching it.

Onegai Teacher and Chobits are okay animes but nothing spectacular. And honestly they are Shounen series, really intended for young guys to watch... not Shoujo for girls. Most of the characters are mindless cardboard figures that are made to look overtly sexual. Chobits COULD of been amazing, except that all the interesting stuff happened in the last 3 episodes and ruined the whole series. Thats not suprising coming from CLAMP, an ex Hentai company. Most of the time I'd rather put in a rerun episode of Doredmon and have that entertain me than some sublimely sexual series like chobits.


What I am getting at is that most anime that we see in North America is the worst kind, stuff that marketers think are the easiest for north americans to understand and watch. The reaaaaaally good stuff never will see the light of day. What I would like people to do is to watch more anime that is not from the brutal mainstream here in north america. I know it may be tough, and a lot of you are young, but trust me it is worth it. IT will often blow your mind away with things you never could imagine possible. When I first watched Nausicaa I was dumbfounded for a week straight.

My guess is though that this thread will get buried pretty quick by the same mindless crap that I am rallying against... ironic somewhat.

[Ghost]

Finnaly someone mentions macross, though it was pulled off air before i really got into it, but hey if you want good topics just post them. Ill post in yours if i know what your talking about(dont get much anime here).

BTW: What you opinion on Betterman?

[kirei_na_me]

Excellent post, noyhauser.

[noyhauser]

I said I watch a lot, not all anime. Whats your general opinion? Should I go pick it up, or get it from Japan?

Macross is difficult to get in North america because of Harmony gold, which made Robotech. Robotech got the licence in the early 1980s for macross and butchered it with two other unrelated series (southern cross and genesis climber Mosepedia) to create the robotech saga. Since then they have been killing imports of new macross stuff because they say they have copyright over them, even though their original contract was for the first series. It is one of the best series out there (in my opinion) because it had a realistic portrail of war, where characters died, but also had a wicked love triange in each one. Minmay, Misa Hayase, and Hikaru Icjijo was wicked. Having ridiculously cool tranforming mecha always helps as well...

Im more of an oldschool anime lover... anything from the late 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s i love. Thats why macross, Bubblegum Crisis, patlabor,. wings of homeasie, Captain Harlock, Conan boy of the future (which may be my favorite pieces of work that Miyazaki ever did), and a whole bunch of other stuff are my favorite series. Oh yeah can't forget Doredamon.

[noyhauser]

Oh I can't forget Lupin.... who can forget lupin?

[Hachiko]

Great post, noyhauser. :cool:

[Eternal Wind]

I agree with u that the early anime are indeed better than nowadays with all those crappy animes which are some sort of a replica of old anime like dual copying eva etc.Patlabor and u're under arrest are my fav too,but eva is still my best!:)

[noyhauser]

raph Xephon... Like CMON RIPOFF. Watched two episodes in Japan, did not afterwards

The only thing about EVA that bothered me was that it seemed to be just Godzilla with a message.... granted thats a cool concept, but its not all that ground breaking.

Cowboybebop seemed too much like the classic Lupin III for my liking. Except the mechanical design, concept drawings and animation were amazing.
On that topic... is there anybody Cooler than Lupin? Has a samurai and a gangster as sidekicks, as well as always having a majorly hot girl as a damsel, antaganoist, partner or love interest. Always has the coolest heists in mind....

[lineartube]

If you liked Macross, you will probably like Macross Zero. What I've seen of the serie made me enjoyed it very much and the soundtrack is quite good also. I haven't seen that much CGI since Blue Submarine nｺ6, which btw I think it was an underated mini-serie. A lot of people like to trash it, but I kind of enjoyed the post-apocalypse/The Island of Dr. Moreau atmosphere.

My first contacts with Japanese animation were done through TV, with Future Boy Conan, and my frist movie was Nausicaa, so its hard to judge Myiazaki, since I love all of his work. I recently saw Porco Ross and I enjoyed it a lot. It is unusual even for a Anime movie.

As for Lupin III versus Cowboy Bebop, I would say that Lupin had more gags into it, while Spike & Co. have this sort of "touch of death" sign hanging on the characters, since episode one. Lupin was amazing for its time, but Spike is a more evolved, seasoned serie that took good lessons from the past. I was a bit disapointed about the realtionship between Spike and Vicious wasn't more explored, but I think that in the end, it worked quite nice.

About Evangelion, what strucked me about it, was this angst, that seemed to follow every single character in the serie. I never saw it as Gojira-style serie, though the fight scenes were cool but the tension, the traumas displayed in every character give it a more humane feeling, and sometimes it touched too deep, whith some of its adult topics, like redemption, religion, existencialism and whatnot, so people may have strong reactions to it. I'liked the ending episode. Most of my friends just said "WTF just happened?".

:)

[noyhauser]

I'd agree with all you have said, LT. I've watched M-0. Its okay, but Macross plus still takes the cake. Plus just had unbelievable characters. I've said this before and I'll say it again Goa Guld Bowman is one of the most developed characters in Anime history for a movie. He first comes off as some evil antagonist, but in truth we see his story and his deep honor... and then he realizes the error of his ways... and well then there is the end.... (don't want to spoil it)

As for the CG debate... I'm am personally against it. Cell animation still has so many properties that make it far more attractive as a medium than CG. I don't mind meshing the two, but its gotta be well done. Yukikaze is a series that uses it decently well, but Macross zero has some really jarring scenes where the CG animation just doesnt work well.

I'll completely agree with what you said about Cowboy/lupin, except that I know that they have different moods underpinning the world. I would never claim it was a rip off (that would be just ignorant). I'm just saying that much of the design and character themes are derived from Lupin, more so than others. You could even make a social commentary that they are both the same type of anime just that they reflect the sign of the times. in the early 1980s the country was on an upward swing so the mood was bright, hence bright lupin. by 1994~1998 the mood in Japan is dark from recession, so the mood in CB is dark.

[Winter]

Preach on Noyhauser. Preach on.

[Shadow]

Okay okay, i've been away for a long time from this forum due to work; but it's good to see some good ol' posts from Noyhauser.

1) I totally agree with you on the thoughtless anime posts. "xxx is sooooooooooo cute" or "i like to watch xxx, it sux but it's funny and the guy is charming" or "yes, ha ha ha..." as posts are not even discussions. Geez, put some thought into it!

2) Macross is also my all time fav anime if u check up on some of the old posts we have going on in here. I'm going to import the entire TV series (from Animego) soon; just need to find some spare time. The TV series is absolutely the best, it's a revolutionary sci-fi with very original storyline and romance. Macross II - Lovers again was acceptable although most of my friends hated it. Macross Plus has pretty cool airplanes in the VF21 or the YF19 but i didn't like the storyline. Macross 7 is totally crap as the music band theory in the story is fairly cheesy and isn't interesting enough as the other series. Macross Zero? I've watched up to the 3rd episode and so far so good; the CGs are done realistically and the story is also interesting (in times like this where almost all ideas have been exhausted).

3) The old Gundam series was done pretty well, especially the older ones such as 0079, MS08, Z Gundam. I agree with you again on this one; Gundam Wing, ZZ, V gundams are made just to earn some fast bucks from viewers. Can you imagine the scenes in Gundam Wing being reused over and over again? geez.

4) I disagree with you on the RahXephon series as I find that series stunningly beautiful. Many people compare it with Evangelion and says it is a ripoff. I'll say that it was that Eva was "meant to be". It doesn't has a shallow "kill-everything you see" anime like Gundam, and not as deep as Eva; but it is certainly one of the best anime I have watched of all times. (and yes, i've watched really really much anime)
- First off, the storyline. The idea of a "wall of time" (Tokyo Jupiter) and the fact that Kamina was an experimental human for the Mulian race was damn original.
- The animation is amazing, not like cheesy low production animation that we see on YTV. The shear details in the background are also done perfectly, I had to watch a third time to catch all the things going on in the background; the imagery is just plain beautiful. If you don'y pay attention to it; you may lose valuable parts of the story.
- The characters fit in together nicely in the end and everything makes sense (if you think about it). Kamina; the main character of the show actually evolves throughout the series; not like some shallow one-dimensional characters in newer anime who jsut blows everything apart. The other characters are memorable too, Quon and Reika are the most interesting of the bunch. Even minor characters such as the ships' crew seem to have their own unique personalities.
- And finally, the bgm and the music is also catchy and soothing to the mind which i really enjoyed as well.
I'll give it a 10/10 no questions asked on this series from Bones.

[noyhauser]

Macross 7 is totally crap as the music band theory in the story is fairly cheesy and isn't interesting enough as the other series.


whoah woah woah. Macross 7 actually is one of the deepest of the MAcross series, it just doesn't connect the dots for you as easy as other series. I'm going to post this post I did a few months ago on a Macross website, I think it whould explain things kinda nicely, but watch out, its kinda out of context... as it is a reply.

so here goes.

Its funny because Macross 7 went over pretty well in Japan. I think its because it was designed to focus on the characters rather than the Mecha( thats what Macross Plus was for) and this doesn't go over well with people who don't like much of wider Japanese anime. I'll qualify that because that is a generalization, but for the most part it does hold true. Macross 7 is a manga series however you cut it, which for the most part focuses on people, not mecha. Look at the longest running Manga strip, its are about police officers and their lives and not about big bad mechas blowing things up. It doesn't have great animation because you can't have good character development over 4 supurbly animated 30 minute OAVs, but you can over a 40 episode season with eh level animation. The reason why there is footage and music repeats because it was assumed that viewers don't remember exactly what happend a week ago, and would like to hear Tosugeki Love heart again because its a catchy track. It also cuts down on the cost as well because series animes are expensive to make and Kawamori blew the budget on Plus.(plus was the most expensive Japanese animation at the time)

I would hazard a guess that most people haven't watched one of the more popular japanese television series because most of them aren't brought to North America. They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders; its about lower middle class people living their lives in england. Would a show like that make it over in North America? hell no. The same thing happens with macross 7. You can say its terrible series but most japanese would disagree with you.

Also the plot isn't that bad. Alot of the show focuses on Pacifism versus militarism, which isn't a terribly big thing in the US but it is VERY relevant to Japanese culture. There are huge battles going on today on should Japan continue to maintain a pacifist policy or should it rearm the JSDF. The whole storyline is about that. Basara believes there is another way to settle the differences rather than fighting and his beliefs save macross 7 fleet. He wins over Gamlin, about episode 27, who figures out that fighting isn't the only way to solve things. He later wins over the Protodevilin through music. Thats what Kawamori was getting at. I personally like the music (I have a MD with only macross 7 tracks, and I still have "My Friends" on my playlist), but I was raised up with Japanese culture, so thats probably why. Macross is probably most people's first foray into Japanese pop, and they hate it. Great it isn't nirvana and it doesn't pretend to be. You don't like it, fine, but other people do.

I'll give that the first 15+ episodes were not that great but thats because most of you are watching it consecutively as it wasn't inteded to be watched. Man if I watched 20 episodes of a syndicated television show consecutively I'd hate it too. Most people watched an episode week after week. So the first 3 months of it was to get people accustomed to the show. You think that sucked? Well watch Ruruoni Kenshin which is considered one of the best japanese series that was produced right at the same time. First 20 episodes of the Tokyo Arc is fillers and repeat just like Macross. then Comes the Kyoto arc which closely follow the manga, and is reaaaaaaally good, just like how Macross 7 resolves itself.

I really think that most of the criticism laid at Macross 7 isn't fair, and I really wish people would just #$@# up about it. great you don't like it but saying its the most terrible Macross series isn't fair. I really disliked the person who put up the poll last week about your favorite series and left out Mac7. It had a lot of interesting parts to it and just because "the animation sucked" or "basara was an idiot" doesn't justify anything in my mind. It was never designed to be like Macross plus, and if it was made in 1981 people would probably say that it was better than the original macross. Just because SDF Macross was the first doesn't make it a sacred cow. For a Japanese series its fairly good, its not the greatest but still good.

[noyhauser]

as for Rah, I saw two episodes and then read a bit about it. It was then I walked away. It gets the comment "Evangeleon Lite" and from what I have read and seen, for good reason. Rah was done by the same studio that did cowboy bebop so its not suprising that they do have excellent animation. But excellent animation does not cover for being a rip off. The SUPER deep undertones of Evangeleon are not replicated in rah, and it is intended as a parody of sorts. I'm not saying its crap, not at all, just that its not that great either. Copying things isn't bad, Macross is the best example to Gundam, but it seems to me that Rah just ripped off too much and little plot differences do not justify a film being that exceptional. That said I probably will watch the whole series some time in the future so what the hell am I talking about

[lineartube]

Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks that I have ever heard, and I enjoyed the story too. The dynamics between the trio Isamu-Guld-Myung and the coming into conscience by Sharon Apple, makes a great story. I won't add anything more than what you said about M+.

About the CGI, though in M0 they are blatantly displayed, what about Ghost In The Shell: The Stand Alone Complex? There is a lot of CGI in it though it isn't very perceivable. Only when there are cars, tanks or more commonly, the Fuchikomas running around that it shows off. As for the serie in itself, well... it lives a lot of the manga and the previous movie, though it is set on a alternative universe. I didn't liked the movie much, because I was expecting something better than the cramming of 9 manga chapters in about one and a half hour of anime. I know that the adaptations always suffer, but what I enjoyed in the manga serie was the political intrigue and some controversial stuff, like some references to AI rights that I've seen beautifully portrayed in the sci-fi world (Do Robots dream of Electric sheep, some of the work by Asimov and so on), anti-terrorist war, government ghost-dubbing facilities (brainwashing todays youth into tomorrow productive citizens), to name a few. The sub-plot about the puppeteer is slow to evolve and it only culminates into the 3 last chapters. I guess that at some point, the argument writters focused only on the sub-plot just to save at least an extra hour of movie. For me, what ruined this movie was the first 2-3 minutes where we see a sexy half-naked cyborg doing a jump into the void. They were appealing to my libido and if I wanted that, I would prefer watching Urotsukidoji. At least I wouldn't be disapointed.

:)

Right now, the only series I am looking for to see, is the rest of the Macross Zero, and... Slayers. I've only seen a Slayers movie and what I saw, I liked it.

As for Macross 7, I've never seen it.

[Ghost]

Here is a thought, start a thread about it.

[neptunemoon]

I didnt know that clamp was an X hentai company. That would explain alot. You know what I dont like is when people like an anime just because it looks good. An anime can have the best CG but the content is crap. I'm not a big fan of CG myself unless its for background purposes. Cell animation has always been good for me it still looks beautiful and amazing.

[Shadow]

They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders...


Mmm... maybe I should give Macross 7 another shot as I only went through the first 10 episodes and read about it on animation forums which didn't have good reviews for it. As I was saying in my last post, character development is sure important, and most newer anime only has one-dimensional characters such as Candidate of goddess and XTv as very obvious examples. I know this doesn't relate to the topic, but Babylon 5 is one of the best sci-fi there is in television series....


Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks that I have ever heard, and I enjoyed the story too. The dynamics between the trio Isamu-Guld-Myung and the coming into conscience by Sharon Apple, makes a great story.


I can't agree more with you that Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks, especially with the 'Voices' tune. I don't know, maybe I just didn't like the story since there were incidences of rape and buddies-turned-nemesis over small incidences...

As for GITS, i only watched 2-3 episodes on it and the rest are still sitting on my shelf... so i can't really say anything about it yet....

Right now i'm watching Wolf's Rain, Gundam Seed which seems to be an "ok" series so far; and of course, I'm highly anticipating the next release of Macross Zero...

:)

[noyhauser]

But Guld didn't rape her... honest to god. HE kinda got enraged, ripped Myung's dress then saw himself in the mirror. Guld in the end was the most honorable man in the whole series, and he proved it by sacrificing himself for his friends (in one of the greatest anime scenes ever.). ... here goes the synopsis of my favorite anime scene.....

Guld transforms to battroid and starts blocking shots with the pinpoint barrier... but the ghost knocks him out by blowing all his limbs offf...as the YF-21 falls, you rotate to gulds face and he gives a little smirk.... you know right then and there that guld is about to trash ghost . What the ghost doesn;t know is that the YF-21 is not an ordinary Valkrie, and he has some tricks up his sleeve... Guld then blows off the destroyed limbs and cuts the limiter. From then on the ghost and guld push them selves to the limit and guld proves that man is still greater than machine. He performs the Ultimate sacrifce for his friends, absolutely torturing himself for them. The last thing you see of guld is another little smirk...

(this was a drunken write up by me last night... pleasue excuse the unabashed love of Macross Plus)


Macross has about the best music in anime as well. Information High from Macross plus, Do you remember love from MAcross Do you remember love, and my favorite,"My friends" from macross 7. (download it )By far the best music of any anime series.

The first 10 episodes of macross 7 is just fillers... you gotta go to like the 26+ episodes and then you will be hooked.

[mad pierrot]

This might not be the place for it, but does anyone know anything about the sequel to Ghost in the Shell?

I keep seeing posters for a movie called "Innocence" and a friend tells me this is the next Ghost in the Shell movie.

Is this BS?

[lineartube]

It's true. Check it at Production I.G. (http://64.41.72.200/IG/English/101/~/Innocence/). It's the same guys behind the TV serie and the first movie, Jin-Roh, Patlabor, and weirdly enough, the anime scenes of Kill Bill vol. I.

[nikki_the_insane]

Regardless of what's been said, I still love Inuyasha and it is one of my favorites. It isn't because it is so commercialized and over shown on Adult Swim. It's pretty original, unless maybe there is another anime I haven't seen that's similar. The dubbed is crap, they've taken the characters and... errrg, the dialogue! I watched subtittled versions of the first two movies and I learned a bunch of stuff that they had taken out with the dubbed.

I agree with you about watching dubbed. It isn't truely watching anime if you watch the dubbed, but myself and many others don't have the money to go by subtitled versions of everything, which bites arse because I don't get a chance to watch all the animes that they haven't commercialized here in America.

I also hate the mindless banter of more than several of my fellow members."I loooooooooove Chi she is soooooo cute! :3 <3!" Yes, I admit, I've probably done that before, but not recently. Yes, Chi is cute, but you don't watch the show just because of Chi or at least I hope you don't. You watch anime because the plot has something different then most and it speaks to you. Yeah, plots can speak to you.

If you want to see real exceptional anime that gets you thinking there is a channel on Dish Network Satelite called TechTV. It shows science-ficition animes late at nights on there Anime Unleashed show thing. Serial Experiment Lain, Banner of the Stars, Betterman and Duel just to name a few. Go watch them... they're worth it...

[noyhauser]

ITs not that hard though. Most places like blockbuster rent decent movies and can order in ones they don't have. Fansubbers are another option, you can download fansubbed movies off the net. I know I know there are legality issues but fansubbers don't work on films that have north american distribution rights, and I have never heard of a fansubber being prosecuted for their activities. Without them these films would never be seen in North America, so I think that they are a good thing.

[Fireka]

okay i didnt rea dall the post just the first one, im new here so..yea hi. I agree on a lot of stuff just said. Not all but alot. The lack of real discussion is disappointing on alot of forums ive seen, thats why im here.

First if i spell stuff wrong dont tackle it, im deslixic and it ticks me off, lol, there I said it.

Seocnd, I write in a lot of genres, anime doesnt consume my life either but i love all literature and so i like to read manga and watch anime as literature and not smut. However just like every other format, for everyone one good one theres 12 bad.

Third, iv'e seen all the films you just mentioned. Spirited Away is my favorite. Your wrong. lol.

And finnaly, opinions can very from person to person, i wouldn't count someone out just because they like Gundam (personally, i loved GGundam, the other seires did nothing for me).

[Fireka]

okay so more typos than i wanted, blah! its 1:30 in the morning!

[noyhauser]

You can use the difference of opinon card, but when a movie is widely panned as crap, its crap.

Spirited was the most mindless Miyazaki film of them all, with the exception of Porco Rosso but he intended it to be thay way.. and really I enjoyed more. It had nowhere close to the depth that Nausicaa or Monoke had, none of the great sequences like Porco or Laputa, or the heartwarming tale like Totoro. Its just not as good.

For Japanese anime the sad fact of life is that north america gets the worst run of Japanese films ever because the best ones aren;t shown, because they are consdered too violent or un-translatable. Why the Hell is G Gundam and Gundam Wing the series brought over? War in the Pocket and 0079 are considered the best of the series. I don''t count people out because of Gundam... hell 0079 is one of the first series I ever watched. What I do get pissed about is people who think Wing is a good series. Its pure utter crap.
es, Chi is cute, but you don't watch the show just because of Chi or at least I hope you don't. You watch anime because the plot has something different then most and it speaks to you. Yeah, plots can speak to you.

No but the plot sucked too... if the series doesn't go anywhere for 12 episodes then cram the rest of the plot development into 3 episodes, thats just a terrible show.

One Show I really liked is this little known one called Blackjack. Its about this doctor who is shunned by the medical community but can heal almost anybody... for a million dollars. ITs a pretty cool collection of OAVs... if you can get your hands on it.

Not to change topics again, but I think that anime adaptations of mangas actually come out better. Animators love it because they get storyboards and can read the whole plot so they are able to do far more than a regular anime. Look at the Kyoto Arc of Ruruoni Kenshin... Its a direct copy of the manga and honestly, its amazing, they got everything right, it had the dark moods and tones, the feeling was there.

[Fireka]

i agree with most of that. But i think youd agree with me in how i look at manga, we will get to that latter. May i please defend GGundam.

I was skeptical at first but really, all art is in the eye of the beholder. The martial arts theme and the do the impossible for love really turned me on to it. Also, if you actually take a martial art theres a lot of hidden symbolism i think a lot of people missed.

[MShingen]

Originally posted by noyhauser
For Japanese anime the sad fact of life is that north america gets the worst run of Japanese films ever because the best ones aren;t shown, because they are consdered too violent or un-translatable. Why the Hell is G Gundam and Gundam Wing the series brought over? War in the Pocket and 0079 are considered the best of the series. I don''t count people out because of Gundam... hell 0079 is one of the first series I ever watched. What I do get pissed about is people who think Wing is a good series. Its pure utter crap.


I am a Gundam fan and I agree with you that Gundam Wing is crap! I have not watch G Gundam yet and will not give any comments on that. But I have watch Gundam Seed, initially I felt that it was a good piece of work. It was getting more and more exciting from the beginning to the middle of the series. However, reaching the ending part where Kira just got Freedom Gundam, the series becomes nonsense and lousy. Most of the time Kira is doing nothing but CRYING! I have never seen an anime with so much of the main character CRYING! So weak! The ending sucks.

Still the old series like One Year War, 8th MS Team, Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory, Zeta Gundam and War in the pocket is superb.

[Eternal Wind]

Originally posted by MShingen
I am a Gundam fan and I agree with you that Gundam Wing is crap! I have not watch G Gundam yet and will not give any comments on that. But I have watch Gundam Seed, initially I felt that it was a good piece of work. It was getting more and more exciting from the beginning to the middle of the series. However, reaching the ending part where Kira just got Freedom Gundam, the series becomes nonsense and lousy. Most of the time Kira is doing nothing but CRYING! I have never seen an anime with so much of the main character CRYING! So weak! The ending sucks.

Still the old series like One Year War, 8th MS Team, Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory, Zeta Gundam and War in the pocket is superb. I agree with u for some part but with characters crying is good,cause it shows more realism if it is reality,furtermore they're still teens in Gseed

[MShingen]

In the One Year War, Amuro Ray can also be consider as a teen, but the crying scenes are very little as compared to Seed. Too much crying makes the anime horid. Also, from the last few episodes of Seed, it is like the producer is rushing for the anime to end:eek: :eek: Don't know how to describe it in detail but...... it gives people the feeling that due to certain reasons, the story must cut off quickly....

[noyhauser]

I see someone posted another love in thread on gundam in anime and manga.. yet again, nobody posts anything substantive... except "yah cool I love it"

Im not going away people, I've been on this board for longer than most of you and I'm completely obstinate when it comes to my views. I'm making sure that this thread is going to be at the top of this forum until people start wisening up.


So let me revise my earlier post MOST gundam series are crap. Almost every one has something wrong with it that detracts from the movie.. Counterattack of Char just didn't make sense. F-91 should have been a full series condensed into 2 hours. I think it was ZZ that went over the top about being a dark series killing off all its characters. To be honest I believe the WHOLE Series to be a consumer rip off that relies on marketing and its position as the first great big robot show to be so popular. Very few actually have a meaningful deep story, and most just rely on Cool new gundam effect combined with hot new character effect to keep people buying the product.

Armored Trooper Votoms... NOW THAT was a cool series.

[budd]

"Armored Trooper Votoms... NOW THAT was a cool series."
seen Armor Hunter Mellowlink? it's tite too, set in the same universe
i agree with most of the rant? good luck, it's the same or worse over in jpop
hey, they gotta start somewhere
they'll learn one day maybe :)

[noyhauser]

I haven't... its difficult to get the series over here. Got a copy for me budd?

Something tells me though I am fighting a losing battle... but I have always been a ****** for the underdog.

[Fireka]

im the underdog! im begging you educate my ignorant mind!

no sarcasim really, i want the good stuff, no more cheap crap, tell me theres a world out there full of works as astounding as Akira or then some!

[Eternal Wind]

Maison Ikkoku touches me deeply with it's story line and great characters and i can say it is one of the best anime i have seen

[mad pierrot]

Thank you Lineartube.
I look forward to seeing it.
It's just going to be a bit hard with NO SUBTITLES!

[MShingen]

Originally posted by Fireka
im the underdog! im begging you educate my ignorant mind!

no sarcasim really, i want the good stuff, no more cheap crap, tell me theres a world out there full of works as astounding as Akira or then some!

Friend, so may I know what good stuff can you introduce us in this thread?

[Fireka]

I can't most likely, i know what i think is good but i may just be scrathing the surface. I'm a writer with a huge handicap (deslixia) but iv'e never let it stop me, and i love all literature. I'm working on my own Manga now, i don't think it's crap, but i guess i'll know upon it's release. I just liek reading Manga and analizing it like i do all other works of literature. Just like every other format, i find that for every one good one theres twelve bad.

Akira of course is genius, I thought Cowboybebop was one of the better ones to be brought here publically and dubed if you like Film Oir. I like BlackJack to. I had personal connections to GGundam which is why i liked it. I don't know why really, but im starting to get attached to InitialD, FLCL has always been a favorite, and one other work none of you will find. I know another hopefull Managka like me whose releasing a work called 'Crater'. Look for it when it comes, its genius.

[noyhauser]

I'll post tommorrow some times...

[lineartube]

Originally posted by mad pierrot
Thank you Lineartube.
I look forward to seeing it.
It's just going to be a bit hard with NO SUBTITLES!

GITS: Innocence is scheduled to be released in Mars 04, and get this, one of the co-productors is Studio Ghibli. Even Disney gets a slice of the credits, though I'm not sure what is their exact roll in it. I hope it is only International distribution, since the Japanese market is covered by TOHO. If I see Batou or Kusanagi dancing around with a duck and a mouse with no trousers on, I might have to throw my TV out the window, in an insane rage.

Why do you want to see it without subtitles? :)

[budd]

probably because of the long wait otherwise?

anyway, i got mellowlink on fansub _VHS_, lemme think about it

but then again, i din't think the japn verz of gundam wing was that bad
but this was when i was broke, and i liked the music because it reminded me of "playstation style" music -- i couldn't afford a playstation
i like stuff that gives me some insight of japanese culture
the light bulb comes on
like heavy metal l-gaim, birdy the mighty, yawara, maison ikkoku
legend of galatic heroes was just plain good, trying to depict people from other nations, etc

"Without them these films would never be seen in North America, so I think that they are a good thing."
american companies wouldn't know what was good if it wasn't for the fansubbers
that goes for the manga translers also

[TyPe-ZeRo]

Wow Noyhauser, I fully understand where your going, I know I know theres a lot of people who think Inu Yasha, Gundam Wing, and anything else that plays on Cartoon Network is just played out. Not only that, American dubbing sucks. Think of it like never eating ice cream, then have someone explain to you the texture and taste of it. There are MANY flavors, and you can only TRULY experience it when you do it yourself. Same goes with anime, but for some learning Japanese and then watching it without subtitles would be great, also learning languages is an excellent thing to do! I myself don't know that much Japanese, so in my situation I am pretty much forced to watch subtitle or the horrible horrible crap Cartoon Network allows Adult Swim to air...

Now again to the played out animes. There are HUNDREDS of anime out there, go watch some, Hell the first true anime i've seen was Love Hina, I was infatuated with it, then I saw Evangelion and I loved that too, I still do! But that didn't prevent me to continue my quest for good anime!

My opinion is get cable/dsl and download underground anime thats not licensed in the U.S., but a BETTER and LEGAL way to do this and I highly endorse/suggest is to BUY the DVD's/VCD's, support the people whom give us the oppurtinity to experience their wonderful art!

[noyhauser]

Good animes..... its really up to taste.

Its difficult to say what I like is something you are going to like. I've got weeeird tastes. Then again I see anime like any other television programs, so I can have eclectic tastes. For some reason I like BlackJack alot... which is a really good series of movies. Its premise was good enough to draw me in (its about a doctor). It was also based on a manga by Tezuka Osamu, who we should all know is the father of japanese animation and manga. Somebody on another thread talked about slam dunk... I think thats a decent series from what I have seen.

One of my favorites is Umi Ga Kikoeru... or I can hear the sea. Its a ghibli affiliate. no action or big events, its about a love triangle between two friends and how they deal with it when they return for a reunion. Its exceptionally hard to find and only an hour long.

To be honest ANY Studio ghibili film is a must see. If you haven't seen Nausicaa and/or Laputa, you are missing out.

The Wings of Honneamise... gainiax's first film... its a virtual standalone great anime. Probably some of the best animation not just technically but also conceptually. The world itself is an alternate universe very similar to our own 1940s/50s. But things are just designed that slight bit differently that you notice the change. Like coins that are metal rods, rather than discs or language or signs or trains. But Gainiax did this because it says, no matter how things look differently, humans are all the same underneath. Its about this world's first attempt to launch a human into space. It kinda gets preachy through the middle, but some of the scenes are spectacular, as well as the story.

Wings can only be eclipsed by one movie... so utterly shattering that I couldn't watch or read anything for the next few days... Hotaru No Haka (grave of fireflies). Heartbreaking and poignant... it may be one of the deepest films you will ever watch. actually Its so good that I would warn people from watching it. Its not the violence or anything likethat, it will just ruin your day.

On the lighter side, Ah megamisama (ah my goddess) is really the precursor series to a lot of the stuff like Chobits and Onegai Sensei. Yes there are other simpler series out there before, but AM was the first to make the animation suit it, keep the episode count low and semi serious comedy. And no matter what you say Bellandy is the original super goddess of anime.

An even better series is Lupin III. Its about the grandson of the famous theif Arsean Lupin, and his capers to steal stuff. There are five elements in every episode and movie. Lupin, the comedic main character, jigen his mafioso american cigarette smoking sidekick, Goemon greatest japanese swordsman ever, Hot Girl theif/antagonist (usually Mine Fujiko) that lupin drools over that will proabably get his loot half the time when he is drooling over him that Jigen always dislikes, Evil Manichal individual like goldfinger, and Inspector Zenigata Keibu, who has devoted his life to capturing lupin, always Lupin outsmarts him.

Now I'm going to state that a lot of animes I have seen and have NO CLUE WHAT THE NAME IS. There is one I have seen in Japan, its kinda like aliens, but in the end only two people survive when they take a shuttle down, and the station explodes when one of the main characters lights his lighter in the H2 room. Somebody tell me what the name of this movie is...

On similar lines, I think I have seen gasakari... I was reading anime lists when writing this thread, and I read its synopsis... I remember watching a series exactly like it.

There are so many other animes that I could say, but I'll leave it at that. I hope this helps

[noyhauser]

bumpbity bump bump

[Shadow]

Okay, having ordered the original AnimEgo Macross TV series last month; i am deeping in shock that even a 1984 title can be so well written (yes yes, of course i have watched it during my youth, but having rewatched the full 36 chapters again, i just had to brag about it...) ;) I guess Noyhauser, Lineartube and I have listed enough good points about the Macross series already, but i must say that the character development and interaction are top notch! I can say that 90% of the more current anime releases are not even worth mentioning about. (Trust me, i've watched and collected many many titles)

Anyways, after spending a good chunk of money on the DVD set, now i'm really tempted in getting a VF1J or VF1S collectible. I've been searching though the net for a long time looking for good deals, but still it is going to cost me another bigger chunk of cash if I decide to get it. (http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?YMT00026

Not sure if there's any hardcore collectible fans out there like me; but I'm planning on getting the 1/48 Valkryie from Yamato (it stands 11" tall in batledroid mode!). Unlike the 1/60 Valk that costs much lesser, it features more in depth details and a *perfect* transformation (from fighter-gerwalk-battledroid mode). Any suggestions as to where I can get a better deal? (I need to get it in Toronto; sadly, that means that I will need to pay additional shipping and duty fees if I decide to import it into Canada) :rolleyes:

[noyhauser]

not really... I'd look into www.hlj.com they often have good deals.

I build the Hasegawa 1/72 scale models personally. I love building them since I was a child and Hasegawa always made top notch WW2 fighters (best detail and quality). It says a lot about MAcross's' mechanical designs when a hardcore realist model company like hasegawa deems them worthy.

Macross is really a series apart from all others.

[nikki_the_insane]

My opinion is get cable/dsl and download underground anime thats not licensed in the U.S., but a BETTER and LEGAL way to do this and I highly endorse/suggest is to BUY the DVD's/VCD's, support the people whom give us the oppurtinity to experience their wonderful art!

Yeah, go buy the DVDs. As long as they aren't bootlegs, you'll be supporting the people who made our wonderful 'drool worthy' animes. :cool:

[X-Japan-FanGrl]

Excellent post, noyhauser.


agreed :mad: :mad:

[noyhauser]

This thread needs a bump. Its an impossible fight, but I am determined to change people's minds about this. If I can get to at least one person, then I have done something correctly.

[TakaraNeko]

Heya noyhauser :wave:

Nice to see a decent tread posted :cool:

I'm glad to find someone who also thinks that the 'Samurai X' extensions of Rurouni Kension were (to put it simply) crap :buuh:
I really can't understand what was going trough the Samurai X creators' minds when they put together thoughs horrible horrible horrible pieces of junk :bawling:
I totally do not believe that if things were to truely follow the ways the charaters developed in the Rurouni Kension arcs (personality-wise/emotionally etc) that Kenshin would have done what he did and turned out the way he did in the 'Reflections' crapity crap crap :box: Stupid character warping samurai x. Kenshin would not have left willfully & Kaoru would not have been a personality-less sack of potatoes.
Anyways....if people actually watched the Rurouni Kenshin anime series properly...they would notice:

1. Kenshin only leaves his new friends when he absolutely has no other choice.....guilt of the past has little to do with it. If anything the guilt would make him stay with his friends so he wouldn't have to purposely hurt anyone

2. Kenshin now repents for his past by protecting thoughs weaker than him...thoughs that he cares for. (I remember him saying something about how he didn't need to wonder around protecting everone he came across to repent.....as long as he can save and protect one person, he is staying true to himself and honouring thoughs lives that he took in cold blood (repenting)....Koaru) therefore no 'Rurouni Kenshin Takes A Chinese Holiday & Dies From The Oh-So-Predicatable Deadly Diesease' horror

3. Well Bahh!!....samurai x just sucks...and if i continued with the faults and errors then you'd end up having to read a 550 page novel lenght post :eek:


Something more positive now:

Yes...I agree that Black Jack is goooood :cool: :bravo: Yay for Black Jack :happy:

Ookay....i should leave things at that then :relief: :blush:

Buhbuy :balloon:

[noyhauser]

The ONLY way that Kenshin would have ended up the way he did was if he didn't learn his succession technique and learned to value his life, and the ones of others. After that point you see Kenshin completely change, he understands that he himself is important. The Reflections didn't understand that. IF you saw the last manga you would understand that Kenshin was not destined to live a life of pain, but one of happiness and hope. Actually tommorrow I'll post the last 4 pages of it, just to show how Kenshin ended of, rather than the crap that reflections was.

[TakaraNeko]

Thanks noyhauser :happy:

I've only been able to see the rurouni kenshin anime.....haven't read the manga :(

I appreciate you posting the last 4 pages of the kenshin manga. I'll feel much better knowing how Kenshin's life was really ment to go. :? :relief:
......stupid 'reflections' :smash: .....thats better :-) ....all smashed to bits...no more reflections. :giggle:

Hehe..anyways

Buhbuy :balloon:

[budd]

pioneer put out an new lupin dvd with the choro-q car
i wanted to get it, but it added over $10 to the price...

[Dutch Baka]

wow, this is almost the same that I am thinking about the Music section haha.

Good post, to bad you aren't around anymore... snif.