Couple busters

[thomas]

Need an excuse to get rid of your spouse? Here's a suggestion.

What's Love Got to Do With It?
Japan's 'Couple Busters' Make Breakups Their Business

"The scene: a smoky bar. The woman, Takako -- tall, 24, with all the right moves -- sees her target. She glides in for the pickup: a bump, an "accidental" spilled drink, a flirtatious comment. Soon, she recalls, she is reeling him into bed."

=> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18210-2002Aug30.html

[samuraitora]

what a job to have...LOL

[moyashi]

hehe, such type of minuture version tv shows on tv are very popular right now.

Sounds interesting actually.

[deborah gormley]

Ahhh!! so thats how its done,, lolol:D

its a scandle, hehe, those poor unsuspecting people, but serve's them right for trifleing during marriage,but still, if these ladies (tempest's) are as good as they say, then its the first time man that strays away from his wife that I feel some how sorry for, these ladies apparently know all the right moves and actions to tempt a man, it would take a man a lot of strenght and restraint to say "no" , I dont know about japan but I hear alot of ladies say that a stranger on a dark cold night, with fire and passion in his eyes, could lure them into a comfortable(for the sake of a word hehe)night, a chance to be taken and later maybe regretted, who knows, but all humans weaken at some stage of thier life,and the sad part being its usually with that stranger they will never encounter again, or so they thought!!! lolol:bow:

[moyashi]

I'm paranoid so such a chance real or not would probaly go un-answered by me.

ouch, first time and whamooo ....

[deborah gormley]

yeah me too!
we chose to spend the rest of our natural lives with this one person, and as we all know some kind of complication will come along, but whats important to me is the fact, would I be willing to put any man infront of the lives of both my children?? , do I have the right to deny them both of a full time daddy, take a chance and this is what the stake is, the answer is a definate "NO I DONT BELEIVE THAT ANY PARENT HAS THE RIGHT TO DENY ANY CHILD OF A FULL TIME MOTHER OR FATHER",,, Part time mum or dad, just is not good enought!!!, It is so important to me that my children have a dad that is seen as a unit with mum and not a conflict in life!! I think this is nessasary to enable them to go and have stable relationships of there own, how-ever I will contredict myself and say if a marriage has no love then it has no foundations, a loveless marriage is not a marriage but a mere exsistance of what once was, I would not hesitate to give up a marrige with no foundation, as that would prove more difficult in the paths our children would follow, confusion is not what our children need, stabilty and the willingness to stay together, (threw love)is the key to future.:bow: :bow:

[moyashi]

wow, I was just talking with a friend about this tonight. I thought the same. Children notice that if the parents aren't in love.

I too cannot and wouldn't like to a risk for a temporary pleasure and loose a lifetime of family life ....

too bad that more people don't think like this.

[thomas]

Wise words to which I fully agree. It takes a lot of experience and maturity however to reach such a conclusion.

[deborah gormley]

wow I babbled on abit did'nt I???:sorry:

To a lighter note,, I'm sure we all personally know a person who strayed from home, I wonder if they think is was worth it? or is it now just a memory never to be recalled ever again? or where they caught?? (hehe) I would love to be a fly on the wall when that happened lol,:clap:

Would any-one here consider becomeing a "couple buster" ?:confused: After all I'm sure these stray cats(hehe) have done this thing before thats why the "couple busters" are out there in the shadows, waiting on us all

:happy: :happy:

[moyashi]

dam, that's tough.

Hehe, so Debs? What about you? ;)

[deborah gormley]

I really really could not take up such a post, I would never allow my-self to interfere in a marriage, marriage is blessing,, and its a a difficult blessing at that(hehe), so moyashi "no" I could'nt do it, not even if it was (Nakata) a stranger!! lol:blush:

[Maciamo]

Hiwatashi, 36, married for 11 years and the father of one, said he has developed a "realistic" view of life and love: "When it comes to men and women, I don't know if anybody can say they have never cheated."

85-90% of men go for it, say the other... That comfirms what I always hear about Japanese men. I knew moral, honesty, fidelity and responsabilities were not a strong point of the Japanese, but really, is there anybody who can beat that elsewhere ?

[Maciamo]

Wise words to which I fully agree. It takes a lot of experience and maturity however to reach such a conclusion.

It reminds me the article about Mongoloid brains that take longer to reach maturity. I think we are on the right track - keep analysing this.

[moyashi]

I wonder if this "lack" of fidelity stems from many marriages being "arranged" or "peer pressure" meaning that many women feel that when they close in on 30 they just gotta marry so choose the best resume they can find with the best possible stock portfolio.

I also wonder if it's the way families react to each other and lack of body contact in general. Many Japanese aren't too cuddly and touchy touchy so by having an affair they can meet up with someone who will touch them and stroke them thereby providing body contact that seems to be missing in many everyday lives.

[Olivia]

I agree with moyashi, when he talks about the lack of physical contact. They are, in some way, forbidden to do so in public, so they must kinda look for it with other people, someone they (men, specially) can treat however they want. Probably makes them feel "on command", superior or something...

[thomas]

Originally posted by Maciamo
It reminds me the article about Mongoloid brains that take longer to reach maturity. I think we are on the right track - keep analysing this.

I actually referred to individual maturity, not "racial maturity" (forgive me that horrible term).

@ lack of physical contact

I am quite sure that this is one reason for interpersonal estrangement, not only among married couples. It took a while until my wife got used to my family kissing each other. Japanese obviously don't do that at all, not even if close family members haven't met for years.

[deborah gormley]

@ lack of physical contact,,
I must say that this factor has to be part of the problem, I am from a large family, and when-ever or where-ever we met a brother of ours, its kind of like a tradition to greet each other with a gentle kiss(on the cheek), returning from a hoilday or a stretch of time away at work(over-seas) is used as a family get together, to greet and welcome home family members, neices and nephews are all greeted in the same manner, it must teach us how to interact with people and keep a bond there, :bow:

As for the married couples, well thats strange!! How can two people in a marriage have no contact, I dont mean they have to be all lovey dovey to have contact, I mean a simple jesture of affection, may-be when passing, touch an arm, or shoulder, even a pat on the head(I hate that one hehe)some thing just to unite as a couple, I think these jestures could do a great deal for any relationship,:bow:

[moyashi]

I see virtually no touching anywhere except for the young jr. high schoolers with over reactive hormones who have physical contact 36 hours a day it seems. Some how some time during high school this leans out and as many Japanese get older and older they pull their personal zone closer and closer to themselves.

My wife is still not used to all the touching and gets pissy about it at times and then calls me a woman.

Even in homes husband and wives continue with this personal zone tightly to themselves. I guess the only real place where touching happens is in bed even then I bet it's more of by accident than on purpose. Now, if you don't touch in bed either (lot's of older couples sleep seperately) you start having real problems and therefore the necessity to "let loose" with total strangers.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned somewhere else that the group is number 1 and controls how people react at times too. But if you're outside of the group you can become a complete "a_s" or "pervert" if you wish since there is no one to reprimand your bad behaviour.

I wouldn't go so far as "in command" but it's more of a probability that it is a kind of "freedom".

[thomas]

Originally posted by moyashi
My wife is still not used to all the touching and gets pissy about it at times and then calls me a woman.

Again "same here". I haven't been called "woman" yet, but I always get scolded when I'm in a cuddly mood. I know, social & cultural relativity, blablabla, but I'm asking you, isn't it sad when phyiscal contacts are reduced to only sexual intercourse??

[samuraitora]

Originally posted by moyashi
My wife is still not used to all the touching and gets pissy about it at times and then calls me a woman.

You have no idea how true this is...lol
I think that women actually have a closer bubble when it comes to being touched by others. Whereas with guys, we just don't liked to be touched by other guys, unless they are close to us.

I am a very touchy person. My wife hates that about me, but also says that it is part of my charm...I don't think I will ever understand women...LOL

[moyashi]

Women weren't built to be made understandable by men.

lol ... Japan is really touchy place once they start drinking. It's really weird. Funny thing is that I've been here soooo long that it feels weird getting slapped on the back and what not by drinking buddies ... hmmmm

@ touchy
Jeee, then the get hufffy and puffy when you start looking at other women. Like no duh, strange but I bet men need just as much or if not even more attention than women. Maybe, men are eternal children?

[deborah gormley]

Hmmm,, now that has shed a little more light on this subject,,

So no matter if its woman to man or visa versa, even two same sexs(meant as two close friends) this contact simply does not take place? or if it does its frounded apon?, with the acception of alchol intake! strange to me, but life to a lot of people,
@moyashi
Maybe, men are eternal children? This is so true,, not from a childish point but maybe from a needy point, the need to have affection and reassurance, just like a little boy needs these two aspects and many more from his Mum, hmmm now thats got me thinking!:bow:

@samuraitora
I am a very touchy person ,, me too! and that used to get me into soooo much trouble!;) even while speaking to a cousin or brother, if they had a new girl friend for the night(hehe)and I met them, the girlfriend accused my relative of having me as a girlfriend to! only because of a kiss on the cheek and maybe a bond that could be seen and not defined,

@calls me a woman. ,,
I once said this to husband about 5 years before we where married,while out shopping for clothes, I was a kind of tough, individual, reluctant to show emotion and basically quite selfish, (now I'v matured hehe), the reply I got was a shocker,(please dont try this at home,lol) "well if you acted like a woman then I would'nt have too!" I was so embarrested I threw what ever items I had in my hands at him, the shop assistant's face was a picture, and as I passed her with her mouth wide open in shock, I yelled "and whats your problem mister" (sarcasticily as ever),



:blush: :bluush: I definately was put in my place!:bow: lol

[Olivia]

@
So no matter if its woman to man or visa versa, even two same sexs(meant as two close friends) this contact simply does not take place?

yep... it's really rare for japanese people in general, both men and women, to touch themselves, such a simple kiss on the cheek or a gentle hug (not necessarily a tight one).

in my pont of view, the japanese people hardly ever uses body expression, so i believe it's much more than just touching people as mentioned above, but gestures made during a conversation, for instance. unlike the nihon-jin, the gestures made by a gaijin have a lot of content/meaning; eg for this one, if you 'take off' his/her arms, you're gonna miss some 'share' of the dialogue, because there is so much emotion/feeling/'stuff' comprised. the japanese, on the other side, are very discreet, behaving in a totally different way.

... well, that's what i think and have seen through these years...

@
I wouldn't go so far as "in command" but it's more of a probability that it is a kind of "freedom".

yes, moyashi, i agree with you. on second thought, the 'sensation of freedom' expresses better all these things. i may have gone too far indeed.

[Maciamo]

@moyashi
Even in homes husband and wives continue with this personal zone tightly to themselves. I guess the only real place where touching happens is in bed even then I bet it's more of by accident than on purpose. Now, if you don't touch in bed either (lot's of older couples sleep seperately) you start having real problems and therefore the necessity to "let loose" with total strangers.

My wife used to tell me not to kiss or show too much affection in public, but after long explanation on the Western/Latin way, she is much more open now (except noisy kiss in the train :lol: ). She hardly ever complains about touching at home and often take the initiative (must be her personality, as she needs more touching than the average Japanese).

We have lived in Europe before and she has seen how Latin couple especially kiss all the time in public. In Italy it's common seeing them lying in the parks almost making love in front of everybody. In general, French people give from 1 to 4 kisses on the cheek (depending on the region) when they meet friends (even young men together) or family. Young people would cheek-kiss someone are introduced to as a greeting. You don't need being close friends. Italian, Spanish or Portuguese usually give kiss twice (not always men together though). This display of affection already contrasts with Germanic countries in Europe (including UK). In Belgium and Switzerland where the population is divided between Latin and Germanic speakers (Flemish vs French and Swiss German vs French/Italian), we also notice the same difference. I don't know well Eastern European, but they seem much more reserved and conservative than any Western European about this (except maybe Russians).

@deborah
I must say that this factor has to be part of the problem, I am from a large family, and when-ever or where-ever we met a brother of ours, its kind of like a tradition to greet each other with a gentle kiss(on the cheek), returning from a hoilday or a stretch of time away at work(over-seas) is used as a family get together, to greet and welcome home family members, neices and nephews are all greeted in the same manner, it must teach us how to interact with people and keep a bond there.

So it seems that Celtic people are half-way between Latin and Germanic. Latin would kiss systematically every time they meet a friends. At school the morning they almost line up to cheek-kiss all the people they know. Popular people might greet a hundred people a day like this. The good thing is that you can kiss the girl you fancy everyday and even pretend not to remember having greeted her that day for a second kiss.:p

It's a stark contrast with the Japanese society.

[moyashi]

@ physical greetings

I ran an impromptu greeting test on my students this year.
Cross sample was all girl classes and all boy classes.

I had them say "hello, nice to meet you" with an "American" greeting.

It was great to see how the students would try to greet each other.

It was hilarious, the kids were having fun. Trying out all kinds of greetings that they've imagined or have seen on TV.

The biggest laughs came out when a pair would try the cheek kissing thing.

The target though was the typical 2 pump firm grip business greeting.

@ touching couples
I ran this type of question against my older students. Apparently across 4 generations gaps exist. It seems the youngest generations of todays 20' something had the most American attitudes and thoughts. While all the other older generations were variations of "I know my spouse loves me and that's enough" attitudes.

It was stated that most of this mentality stems back to medieval Japan and where men and women used to live in seperate worlds.

[Olivia]

@ physical greetings
:D
that must have been funny...!
i have a japanese friend who, after getting to know all this western tradition about kisses, always wants to give people three kisses on the cheek. at first, she got confused on the number of kisses (!!!), since she was not used to. but now, she's got the perfect western/latin manners! ;)

[thomas]

In Arab countries men cheek-kiss each other as well. As Maciamo has pointed out, there are regional differences in regard to the number of kisses exchanged. Women and men, on the other hand, would never kiss each other unless they are married or brother and sister.

[Olivia]

@ number of kisses
in brazil, i believe you give three kisses to wish you a marriage, a sort of supersticion.

(you guys know what i've just realized right now? that there's no 'smilie' for kissing! :blush: for instance, on msn messenger you have that (K) which shows you on the screen a lip, meaning a kiss.)

[kinjo]

Interesting. Unfortunately, here in India, kissing is something I see mostly in movies!!
Kissing here couldn't in no way mean a greeting, it cud mean only physical intimacy, love etc, no, not even affection! (but in some special situations, kissing between women may be acceptable as sisterly!)
Damn strange, eh?........But thats the way life runs here and people are real comfortable this way notwithstanding all the rapid westernization thats taken and taking place.

@ lack of physical contact
Funny, but we must be having a very low rate of divorce/breakups compared to the US or Japan here. And physical contact in public is something not seen often. All this notwithstanding the fact that fidelity, responsibility etc etc would be one of the highest across...... So, I wouldn't say lack of physical contact contributes to breakups,not here anyway. Here.there must be innumerable people having affairs but mostly,you would see nothing more than holding hands. Not that its forbidden, just that people don't feel comfortable doing it (say kissing etc) in public. Its too embarrasing.

And same goes for arranged marriages (omiai). I can't give you statistics, but I can confidently say there are atleast five times as many as love marriages as arranged. And again, divorce rate is so low.
The bottomline :- Just the culture and the way people are brought up and the mindset of the society. (which all keep changing rapidly)
Maybe because divorce is still a social stigma that not many couples break up ,and no kissing maybe because people just don't like expressing their love so blatantly.
its funny how every culture is so unique, interesting and funny!

But how I wish I cud be kissing and pecking all day long....LOL....("tonari no shibafu wa suggoku aoi" karasa........)

:happy:

[moyashi]

@ touching and physical contact

Actually I was reffering to that which normally occurs in homes :)

@ in public
In Japan for those over 40, touching in public is like a taboo.

30 somethings is a 50-50 mix. Something done to catch a good hubby then which slowly disappears as the relationship deepens and marriage papers have been signed and long forgotten.

under 20. It's all is fair game it seems. Hormones seem to break public taboos.

[thomas]

Here's more on the original topic:

Private eye business split over wakaresaseya

"Private detective agencies across Japan are rushing to wash their hands of any involvement with the wakaresaseya, or professional relationship destroyers, following a spate of gripes about the practice, the Mainichi has learned. [...]

Wakaresaseya, frequently attractive young people who latch onto an unwanted partner and either prompt them to end the relationship they're in or provide grounds for having it terminated, have apparently existed for decades in Japan, but gained widespread popularity last year following a TV drama that gave a fictional account of a professional relationship breaker."

=> http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/features/0211/11wakare.html

[moyashi]

haha, I saw that drama.
It was pretty good but stupid like most dramas. Interesting though.