How do they treat girls?

[CrystalTear]

I just wanted to know. How are girls in japan treated. :souka: Not just Japanese women but, all women.
if you could tell me. :blush:

[Brooker]

I can't say for sure because I'm not a girl. But one of my former co-workers, an Australian girl, always complained about men talking to her in public or making rude comments. Many of the people who did this were not Japanese, but were other foreigners. She was a very "well endowed" girl and insisted on wearing low v-neck shirts - something sure to turn heads in Japan. Even though she "complained" about it a lot, I suspect that she secretly liked the attention because she talked about it all the time.

[playaa]

Brooker, I really hate people that are like that. They KNOW they are asking for the kind of attention but then complain about it when they recieve it. Thats like dressing as Hitler and walking through a Jewish neighborhood then complaining that you recieved bad attention (if you made it out). It doesnt make sense. Why wear revealing shirts, when you know it brings attention and comments, if you are going to complain about it, Beats me. :D

[orochi]

OP,
You pose a question that is very difficult to answer in short. I am positive there is plenty of literature out there that you could bury yourself in before you start to figure out the whole picture. I have lived in Japan for almost two years now and am still not positive on the role that women play here.
To make a short answer, I would say that women here are definitely not treated as equal as they are treated back home (that's the US for me). Wages for women are lower. You don't see as many female Presidents or CEOs in the business world.
You do see a lot of women on TV, though. Sadly, it is not always in the best light. Women on TV are often presented as eye candy. They offer no real substance to the television show and instead are just there to look cute or pretty. An example of this are foreign language TV shows. There are a wide variety, teaching English, French, Italian, Chinese, German and more to budding Japanese viewers at home. Every one of these shows has the same recipe: a native speaker from said country; an older, educated, usually male speaker of the foreign language; and the young, cute Japanese girl who just can't seem to get this new language down. They wear cute outfits and giggle and jump around. You do the math.
If you start bringing issues such as Japan having the largest "adult products" market in the world, this issue can turn into quite an intense debate. Then there's snack bars and cabaret clubs. The list goes on and on...

[Golgo_13]

If Japanese women are being treated so badly, why don't you see more of them complaining?

[orochi]

If Japanese women are being treated so badly, why don't you see more of them complaining?

What exactly do you mean? What kind of complaining do you mean? Feminist literature, riots on the streets?

There isn't a lot of "complaining" because there have never been very strong or persuasive feminist movements in the country. Unlike a lot of Western countries, the 20th century did not see a move for equality in Japan. While many women are not *happy* with their position, a fair number seem to be at least complacent with their position in society. From a Western viewpoint, women are treated quite badly but to the Japanese, this is just how it has always been. There has never been a great demand for change.

Recently, though, it seems that a lot of women on the individual level do want something to change. A lot of young women spend time overseas as students or on working holiday visas. These women, exposed to communities outside of Japan come back a lot different (if they come back at all). There is also a growing "demand" for foreigner boyfriends/husbands who will treat them as equals and give them an escape out of Japan and its boundaries on women.

There's also the fact that Japanese tend to complain a lot less than other cultures. There's definitely a "grin and bear it" mindset. 我慢！我慢！

[Carolgirl00]

or in other words, in response to 'If Japanese women are being treated so badly, why don't you see more of them complaining?', how can you miss something you've never had? Most of these women have lived in Japan their whole life, so that's all they know. In a way they are 'brainwashed' by their own culture. but then again, all of us are, right?

[neko_girl22]

These women, exposed to communities outside of Japan come back a lot different (if they come back at all). There is also a growing "demand" for foreigner boyfriends/husbands who will treat them as equals and give them an escape out of Japan and its boundaries on women.

There's also the fact that Japanese tend to complain a lot less than other cultures. There's definitely a "grin and bear it" mindset. 我慢！我慢！

While a lot of what you say is true, I feel you are seeing it too much from a western view point. I agree that women have a lot of difficulties in the workplace - but then women didn't have it easy in the west for a long time either. Japanese women need to push for change themselves.
The reason why Japanese girls want foreign boyfriends is not always that they are looking for something "better" but they have been influenced by western media - hollywood movies - and it's is fashionable to be with a tall, blonde, white man. Like a LV bag , it's all the rage :D

[orochi]

While a lot of what you say is true, I feel you are seeing it too much from a western view point.

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to stress the fact that how we view Japanese from outside the culture is very different than how they feel inside their own culture, given history and tradition. Without a feminist movement, many women are content because, like carolgirl00 said, women don't know what they are missing.

Dating Western men because of media brainwashing definitely occurs, but I don't know how prevelant it is compared to more "sincere" relationships. The majority of girls that I have seen in my stay here that are with foreign guys are in that more "sincere" group. A lot of my friends are with Japanese girls for very good reasons besides what the media is telling them (both) to do.

This topic is tricky to talk about without getting caught up in stereotypes and generalizations. Obviously not every Japanese guy treats women badly. In fact, there are plenty of non-Japanese women here who are happily married to Japanese men in equal partnerships. There are also plenty of not so "Prince Charming" foreign men here as well taking advantage of Japanese women.

I do think, though, that in a lot of Western countries, at least the US where I grew up, men are raised to feel like they really have to work hard to earn that girl. You've got to take her out, open doors for her, be a gentlemen, etc. Although I'm sure some of us do it, I think there are far fewer of us non-Japanese guys going out on dates with girls and spending the whole time on our keitai or reading a comic book waiting for the food to arrive (I still get surprised when I see that).

[kirei_na_me]

This was one of those topics I was hoping would lose momentum. It's inviting a plethora of stereotypes and generalizations. You can search this forum over and find many discussions we've already had on this topic. Gosh knows I have no energy left to discuss it...

There are a few of us on this forum who are also married to Japanese men, by the way.

Also, I think Western men sometimes go to Japan thinking they're going to 'save the damsel'(this conversation seems familiar, j)...

[RockLee]

Also, I think Western men sometimes go to Japan thinking they're going to 'save the damsel'(this conversation seems familiar, j)...

This is part true...part false...some ppl make themself believe they are needed because they are kinda obsessed by Japanese woman :D.As are there ppl who just love Asian girls/woman (like me :blush: ) and think about a relationship with a japanese girl in the way of love...If just a matter of choice actually :-)

[KitsuneUdon]

...Also, I think Western men sometimes go to Japan thinking they're going to 'save the damsel'...

:bravo:

Yeah, have you ever read the comic strip "Charisma Man"? It's totally about the overly confident Gaijin coming to Japan and then ending up making a total ASS of himself (at least in the eyes of other Gaijin).

Let me make an anaology with Charisma Man in mind:

Gaijin in Japan are like the old English Safari Hunters, they went to an exotic country (ie. Africa) and simply hunted for trophies. It was all game and very rarely was it taken seriously.

[kirei_na_me]

Heh. Yeah, sounds like a good many who go over there, but I know not all are that way.

Sounds like this "Charisma Man" is worth checking into... :p

Oh, and I've also noticed that it's almost starting to get that way with Western women too. All of these female otaku(for j-music, anime, even history) are starting to want a Japanese boy. Little do they know... :p

And let me say, "just kidding!!!!!!!!!", for anyone who might take offense to that last sentence. Well, kind of.

[EscaFlowne]

right.....

:D

[playaa]

:lol: I am going to be Charisma Man for the 2 weeks I am in Japan! Just Kidding, though I wouldn't mind finding me a hottie over there. Of course I would always rather find kirei! But I didn't say that. :note: :hey: :blush:

[Golgo_13]

While a lot of what you say is true, I feel you are seeing it too much from a western view point. I agree that women have a lot of difficulties in the workplace - but then women didn't have it easy in the west for a long time either. Japanese women need to push for change themselves.
The reason why Japanese girls want foreign boyfriends is not always that they are looking for something "better" but they have been influenced by western media - hollywood movies - and it's is fashionable to be with a tall, blonde, white man. Like a LV bag , it's all the rage :D

Thank you.

The only ones who are bi+ching aren't even Japanese.

How long does it take for people to realize that trying to apply one's own culture and customs on another culture doesn't work.

If you feel so strongly that women in Japan are treated badly (as opposed to women in a middle-eastern country), and you are a female, there's a simple solution: don't go to Japan.

Gee, I don't know how women like nzueda can take it each day in Japan being so used and abused and treated like dog schidt.

[playaa]

Well said Golgo! :p

[kirei_na_me]

Yes, yes, yes. I have to agree with Golgo.

[Golgo_13]

Thanks again!

Of all the female relatives I met during my recent trip to Japan, NOT ONE mentioned anything to the effect that they'd like to live in the U.S. because women are treated better there.



BTW, why is this thread titled "How are GIRLS treated in Japan?"?

Does this literally mean little girls?

Or did the person have so little respect for women that the person refers to them as "girls"? Perhaps the whole discussion should've started there.

[neko_girl22]

Gee, I don't know how women like nzueda can take it each day in Japan being so used and abused and treated like dog schidt.

Yes my Japanese husband treats me terribly! Just yesterday he surprised me with a candlelit dinner, flowers and a gift to celebrate 4 years since we first started dating, and two years since we got engaged.
Really, I don't know how much more of this I can take!! :D

[playaa]

HEHE Nzueda, thats horrible! :giggle:

[Golgo_13]

Ueda-san no Okusan wa omoshiroi na! :D :D :D :D :D

I mean, why even bring up the subject of how women are being treated in Japan--is it such an important issue?--when there are countries in Latin America where men do not get convicted for killing their wives if they caught them cheating on them, or countries in the middle east where women are not allowed to receive education and are required to wear a veil over their faces all the time, or in Africa where little girls' sexual organs are mutilated.

[ashuri2]

Ueda-san no Okusan wa omoshiroi na! :D :D :D :D :D

I mean, why even bring up the subject of how women are being treated in Japan--is it such an important issue?--when there are countries in Latin America where men do not get convicted for killing their wives if they caught them cheating on them, or countries in the middle east where women are not allowed to receive education and are required to wear a veil over their faces all the time, or in Africa where little girls' sexual organs are mutilated.

you're so right! :wave: while we're on it, we could bring up how women are treated in the u.s.,. cause its not as 'perfect' over here as some would make it seem to japan! i see a lot of eye candy on t.v. and other places cleverly disguised as serious shiz, and corporate and scientific america isn't always known for welcoming female colleagues with open arms! i know a lot of guys who treat the girlfriends like shiz! :okashii: compared to those other countries you mentioned, japan might seem like a paradise to those women...

[jolan]

OK, let's talk about what I learned and observed so far...

Common stereotypes: women lose thier job after first birth. Well, it's kinda true, but Japan is also one of the world country where working women is high. Why? Because a lot of women go back to their job, or another one, once children are grew up (elementary school). Finally, Japan is in the top 10 country for working women, the first one is Sweden.

Now, people starts to be aware of a new idea about society. Women will become more and more important, playing a key role in the near future. Japanese population is decreasing, and there will be more retired people than workers soon, so every women will have to work if Japan still wants to remain a leader. Just see now how huge is the number of foreign workers in Japan, and it will go on increasing, because Japan needs a lot, from nurse to take care about elder, to reaserchers... Government is spending a lot to bring people to Japan, the figures will definitely explodes in the future
Women have to deal with this situation now: Japan's future will ask a lot to them, but still, the old Japan is still there: how to explain your stepmother that you have to work rather than taking care of her? Family duty is still an important factor to take into account.

You know what? I thinks it's not that good to be a woman in Japan. Finally I know a very little number of Japanese people above 40 able to cook a single egg. But among young people, everything is changing. According to some friend of mine, Japan was far more open and easy for women in the past, but for roughly 80 years, situation have just getting worse and worse. What factors? Opening to western countries? I think the answer is more complicated... recently in Look Japan magazine of november 2003, you can read an article about a women driving a bus letting her husband taking care of children... The kind of article you would haver read 20 years ago in western europe for example. I don't think it's good to talk about evolution or stuff like this, Japan just follow his own path eventually.
You all know what is Giri don't you? Well I had experienced it in the past, and it's kind of fun just to be there late, doing nothing until late at night, just be ther, to show your boss you're here, than he can count on you. I sometimes phone japanese friends to settle a nomikai or something, but they 're often busy with overtime work! That's kind of funny, because they say they don't work at all!
During wedding ceremony, boss employers are often invited, and of extreme importance. Responsibility for the happiness of the just married couple? Work is an extremely important value in Japan, more important than private circle, family life(some japanese friends seriously thinks it used to be different in the past). But again, we have to be careful with generalization, and keep in mind that Japanese society is a lot diversified. Time and things are changing...

What about going on holiday? What kind of Japanese are you supposed to meet in foreign countries? Young women and retired people. 40 years old male workers don't take any holiday... This is also a stereotype! I met a lot of Japanese male going on holiday with their family... And I'm sure you can meet some 40 years old salary man on holiday in foreign countries...

I go to a lot of restaurant in Japan, and the only one where they first serve girls wasn't a japananese one, but a turkish one. The education is different here, that's for sure. Children's day long used to be called "Boy's day"... Finally, when I meet a Japanese boy holding the door for a girl, it appears he's been living in foreign countries for years!!!
I also attend a sotsugyo shiki, graduation ceremony for elementary school... The first to be rewarded were of course boys of the same class, and then the girls.
I originally came from Strasbourg, France. Among all the Japanese student I meet in France or Germany, almost all are girls! And the boys are studying art, philosophy! Never Science! On the contrary, I meet a lot of Chinese student studying science in Europe...

But don't worry, I also met a lot of japanese boy very kind with girl, doing chores, without having made a ryugakusei in western countries! lol. As I said before, stereotype is dangerous, and Japan is finally a place where you can meet a lot of strongly different people. Custom is not the same everywhere, that's for sure, it doesn't put people in the same box either.

[japandan]

OP,

An example of this are foreign language TV shows. There are a wide variety, teaching English, French, Italian, Chinese, German and more to budding Japanese viewers at home. Every one of these shows has the same recipe: a native speaker from said country; an older, educated, usually male speaker of the foreign language; and the young, cute Japanese girl who just can't seem to get this new language down. They wear cute outfits and giggle and jump around. You do the math.



that is so right :D i've been here just 2 months but its the way, and kind of sums it up (!!) - sorry, generalisations....!

[Elizabeth]

that is so right :D i've been here just 2 months but its the way, and kind of sums it up (!!) - sorry, generalisations....!
It is true in a way, I also have audio tapes for foreign learners where the women can't figure out how to dial a telephone or turn on the water spout correctly but it doesn't prove that they are treated badly per se. There are plenty of shows, esp news and cultural documentaries where they don't cry or giggle and come across very intelligently. A friend even told me once that he prefers working with women software developers (10% of the company workforce) because they were more organized, thorough and conscientious than their male colleagues. :relief:

[kirei_na_me]

I've seen lots of women acting intelligently on Japanese TV.

And haven't you seen plenty of women on American TV who act plenty dingy and silly? As a matter of fact, I think there might be an abundance of those on TV in the U.S. now? :?

[playaa]

I've seen lots of women acting intelligently on Japanese TV.

And haven't you seen plenty of women on American TV who act plenty dingy and silly? As a matter of fact, I think there might be an abundance of those on TV in the U.S. now? :?

HAHA Very true, sometimes the lack of intelligence gets annoying to me.

[Golgo_13]

And haven't you seen plenty of women on American TV who act plenty dingy and silly? As a matter of fact, I think there might be an abundance of those on TV in the U.S. now? :?

First show I thought of was "Three's Company" -- Crissy Snow. :D

I know. I'm old. :(

[kirei_na_me]

No, no! That's exaclty who I thought of! Suzanne Somers!

[Golgo_13]

My, we think alike don't we?

And the daughter on "Married with Children."

BTW, compared to the U.S., there's probably less smut pornography in Japan because of tough pornography laws. The adult film I saw in Japan was blurred out.

[playaa]

Kelly is the daughter, and that is someone I thought of also..

[ashuri2]

the situation about women has a lot of similarites as far as the u.s. and japan are concerned. there's almost no female game show hosts- the women are there to smile and look pretty- and late night talk shows and most of the really serious stuff on the news channels are done by men...toodai motto kurashi. we should look at the situation in our own country before making comments on others- you might find some things are the same!

[Golgo_13]

we should look at the situation in our own country before making comments on others- you might find some things are the same!

Thank you. :bravo:

It also applies to every other discussion that has brought up stereotypes and generalizations.

I didn't find anywhere in Japan a Japanese version of the "Girls Gone Wild" video.

[mdchachi]

Yes my Japanese husband treats me terribly! Just yesterday he surprised me with a candlelit dinner, flowers and a gift to celebrate 4 years since we first started dating, and two years since we got engaged.
Really, I don't know how much more of this I can take!! :D
Wow, what a freak. :bravo:

If he continues to do this sort of thing, say, two years after your first child, I will be truly impressed.

Although I'm sure some of us do it, I think there are far fewer of us non-Japanese guys going out on dates with girls and spending the whole time on our keitai or reading a comic book waiting for the food to arrive (I still get surprised when I see that).
I almost forgot about that. That's true, I can't remember the last time -- if ever -- I've seen a young couple completely ignoring each other while in a restaurant or cafe outside of Japan.

I didn't find anywhere in Japan a Japanese version of the "Girls Gone Wild" video.
Yeah, me neither. All I could find were all those SM videos with girls bound up in leather and chains (with all the naughty bits appropriately blurred of course).

:p

[kirei_na_me]

Wow, what a freak. :bravo:

If he continues to do this sort of thing, say, two years after your first child, I will be truly impressed.

Yes, me too. That will be the test, believe me. :p

I've got a feeling nzueda has a pretty good one, though. :-)

[budd]

i saw some sites in this newsletter i picked up in the airport a while back -- forgive if already posted
http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/cei/AFWJ.html
edit: http://www.afwj.org/
http://www.tokyowithkids.com

[Golgo_13]

i saw some sites in this newsletter i picked up in the airport a while back -- forgive if already posted
http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/cei/AFWJ.html
edit: http://www.afwj.org/
http://www.tokyowithkids.com

I wonder what would happen if there was such a thing as an association of white wives of black males in the U.S.

Or, is there one?

[kirei_na_me]

Probably is.

I'm not a member of afwj. They have all these dues and it's mostly for foreign wives in Japan. I was a member of a few of those and even had my own group at one time, but I'm not into the group thing. I get tired of the know-it-alls and complainers.

[Golgo_13]

Wow, what a freak. :bravo:

If he continues to do this sort of thing, say, two years after your first child, I will be truly impressed.

Most women don't get that at ANY time in their relationship! In the U.S., Japan, Pakistan, or anywhere else.

nzueda,

your hubby (your marriage) is documentary film material! :D

[ashuri2]

Most women don't that at ANY time in their relationship! In the U.S., Japan, Pakistan, or anywhere else.

nzueda,

your hubby (your marriage) is documentary film material! :D

i wish my boyfriend would do such things :( . i haven't even seen my dad do that for my mom :blush: .

[neko_girl22]

Wow, what a freak. :bravo:

If he continues to do this sort of thing, say, two years after your first child, I will be truly impressed.

well actually it seems like we can't have children :kanashii: so perhaps I'll have a never-endingly romantic husband??
I am lucky - but's it's not all candlelit dinners - we have some pretty dramatic heated discussions too!!
oh, but my husband is now putting lunch on the table so I better go.... :D

[mdchachi]

Sorry to hear that (that is, if you're sorry about it).

Take a look at this: http://odsa.com/movies/nocandy.avi

[Golgo_13]

mdchachi,

LMFAO !! at the video. But you gotta admit, when kids are still babies they're sooooo cute.

[mdchachi]

It depends on what you compare them to. For me, pretty much nothing can beat puppies.

[Golgo_13]

You can't breast-feed puppies.

You can watch your babies grow up learning to walk or speak.

but then again, puppies don't grow up to post Japan-bashing comments on J/Ref forum.

[mdchachi]

I thought we were talking about "cuteness". Sure babies beat puppies in several categories but they are certainly NOT cuter. No way.

[kirei_na_me]

They're certainly not cuter than puppies in the first few days or so... :p

[Golgo_13]

I thought we were talking about "cuteness". Sure babies beat puppies in several categories but they are certainly NOT cuter. No way.

You'd say otherwise if they were your own babies.

How can you even compare the two--puppies are not even your own flesh and blood.

[ashuri2]

You'd say otherwise if they were your own babies.

How can you even compare the two--puppies are not even your own flesh and blood.

babies are cuter...you can hug them and squeeze them and kiss their cute little cheeks while puppies can be wild and chew up your shoes. as for overall short-term satisfaction, i'd choose a puppy: less maintenance! :relief:

[yimija]

by kirei_na_me :
Also, I think Western men sometimes go to Japan thinking they're going to 'save the damsel'(this conversation seems familiar, j)...

Is it true ? Well, let's that in Europe (excepted maybe in the nordic countries) woment still have to fight to be recognized. Look at government in everycountry, you dont see that many (if any) women ministers. Politics and "running-the-world-business" seem to be a men's job (LOL!!!)

I AM ALL FOR A MATRIARCHY !!! (lol, of course)

No, but seriously, if only the proportions men/women as it is in the world's population was respected, it would be OK. But somewhere, maybe, perhaps, women dont want it that way ?? Men is supposed to be the dominant one and therefore appropriate himself all (or at least the majority) of the privileges.

Being a woman in a foreign land, I've had some hard time, and it took me twice as much efforts, to prove to this cosmopolitan world in which I evolve that I'm just as good as the best man. Now they know, but what an efforts !

So it's not just in Japan, it' (almost) everywhere. Let's just not stop the "fight".

[Uncle Frank]

[QUOTE=nzueda]well actually it seems like we can't have children

Not having children does leave more time for the couple to do things togeather. Also a little more money to do things togeather.I think about my family name and line dying with me once in a while; but overall not to many regrets on "NO" kids.

Frank

:blush:

[yimija]

yes, I think I know what you mean. the NO kids is a "choice" in an art of living. One can argue that it is selfish.
Another one will say : "Look at what we are preparing for our future generations"
Then considering only these two options (there are many more, I'm sure) we will just take a break and think.

for the moment I'll will go to bed, my eyes are red with unsleepiness. I know, it's only early in the morning but an all night stand that was tiring. I'll come back later....

[neko_girl22]

LOL @ the video!

As for kids I haven't really had time to decide if I am sad or not...... I'm just hoping the hormones don't hit me later ..... I'll probably end up with a house full of puppies and kittens!

Also, I think Western men sometimes go to Japan thinking they're going to 'save the damsel' good point. It's a great ego boost for a lot of them!

[ashuri2]

i remeber when i was younger i never even considered the fact that i might decide to mot have kids...i had this feeling (inherited, i think, from the people around me) that if i didn't have kids i wouldn't leave a legacy or have anyone to remeber me later. lately i've been rethinking such a mindset, but its hard because its just been engraved in me that that was the 'natural' course of things- get married, have kids, get old, have grandkids, force your kids to take care of you in your old age...

[Uncle Frank]

Being a "Big Brother or Sister" or a mentor to a kid is pretty nice. Teaching at Sunday school or youth fellowship
lets you spen time with kids of all ages. Helping out at the local YMCA or YWCA is fun for an active person. And there are different levels of the Scouting program for boys & girls. It's great cause the kids go home to their own homes and leave you in peace at the end of the day!

Frank

:-)

[yimija]

but its hard because its just been engraved in me that that was the 'natural' course of things- get married, have kids, get old, have grandkids, force your kids to take care of you in your old age...[/QUOTE]

you forgot one thing, though, and that is the last part of it : "have kids, get old ... and die
you shouldn't have stopped prematurely...

It's great cause the kids go home to their own homes and leave you in peace at the end of the day


That's the best part of "having" kids, they can go back to their parents at the end of the day... and it still leaves you with a well filled day. I gave some of my time, when I was a student to some disabed kids. Very rewarding sensation. Selfishly without the "burden" of being a parent.

[ippolito]

For my short experience in Japan i saw that women are not involved in important managemant positions in large companies gernerally those manager are japanese men....am I wrong?

Well sorry for for that woman and his husband
Everywere there are good husbands and bad husbands.....
One thing I did not like there the easy way men and women get drunk all together
even between collegues...I personally tooked to the train station a nice jp woman drunk....and a jp man wanted to push me as i was talking with her....and try to help her.....he was drunk so i did not gave him any push or other atemi.....
perhaps is he was still pushing me he would take a judan or jodan mawashi geri
but I treated not to use my technics as I was not in danger
Here in Rome in dinners with collegues we eat a lot....but if one of us get drunk
all look him in a different way like an alcholist....
I saw that in some parties in Uk is the same situation like in Japan my english collegues were drinking so much beer....( I am talking of an official company party)
this happens also in U.s.?
Hello all
Ippolito
?

i remeber when i was younger i never even considered the fact that i might decide to mot have kids...i had this feeling (inherited, i think, from the people around me) that if i didn't have kids i wouldn't leave a legacy or have anyone to remeber me later. lately i've been rethinking such a mindset, but its hard because its just been engraved in me that that was the 'natural' course of things- get married, have kids, get old, have grandkids, force your kids to take care of you in your old age...

I have 4 sons....2 boys and 2 girls the girls are euroasiatics as the mother is korean..and I am caucasian....one is 3 years and is wonderful
the small one is only 20 days old and she looks more oriental.
I think that have sons is the most important reason we are here....
with your sons and your son's sons you will continue to live tranferring
you dna to them....what can I tell you the children is sacrifice......
but I have some old friends without children.....that now feel very alone
and would be younger to have a son...or more than one...but htis is not possible anymore especially for old women....
Hello
Ippolito

[budd]

"I wonder what would happen if there was such a thing as an association of white wives of black males in the U.S.
Or, is there one?"

does the little sister want to join or something?
HOW WOULD I KNOW? and/or WHY would i care?
was this a rhetorical question? or was it a weak sexually-frustrated attempt at race baiting/hidden agenda? given the poster's past history in these forums, i'm tempted to choose the latter. for the most part, all i ever post are answers, or links to answers of the original posters' questions. if somebody is concerned enough to ask a question as op did, perhaps they would benefit from such a site or its links. at least i cared enough to try to help, instead of being just another armchair thread-crapping troll as the direction of this rebuttal
if it was a genuine question, then go here
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en
it took me all of five seconds to find this (http://www.zanamu.com/), other answers can't be much farther along. use those brain cells and synapses for once

thoroughly disgusted and done with this thread

[ashuri2]

:eek: wow! golgo, what did you mean by the post he's referring to? i didn't pay much attention to it, but obviously budd read into it and he sounds pretty pissed...or is it just an overreaction?:worried:

[Golgo_13]

Okay then, how do they treat babies in Japan? :wave: :p :bravo:

[Gaki]

Okay then, how do they treat babies in Japan? :wave: :p :bravo:

They make them do unko suwari and take pics of them. :-) :balloon: :-)

[Golgo_13]

Or dye little kids' hair blond.

[yimija]

Or dye little kids' hair blond.

Yes... this is quite a shame.
Why should western stupidity applies to Asia ?
We all know that European (Caucasian) hair color can vary from red to black, passing through all shades and colors, NATURALLY ! So that it creates envy for some to change colour cans be understandable.
But asians have one and one only natural colour. So why change it ? For adults, it's their choice, but for kids !!!!!!!!

[mdchachi]

Yes... this is quite a shame.
Why should western stupidity applies to Asia ?
We all know that European (Caucasian) hair color can vary from red to black, passing through all shades and colors, NATURALLY ! So that it creates envy for some to change colour cans be understandable.
But asians have one and one only natural colour. So why change it ? For adults, it's their choice, but for kids !!!!!!!!

That's better than poking holes in their ears (or cutting foreskins off their chinchin ;-) -- all common practices in the USA.

[yimija]

That's better than poking holes in their ears (or cutting foreskins off their chinchin ;-) -- all common practices in the USA.

How right you are ! but it's not a practice invented by the US. Poking holes in several places of your body has been a long and extremely old customs in a lot of coutries on all continents. That may explain where the habit of "piercing" comes from, as well as tattoo, too ( I love the sound of it when you say tattoo too..)

In South America, Incas & Mayas had their ears pierced, In Africa they did it on their lips as well insrting a piece of wood, larger and larger as they gres older. It finally came to something as big as a coffee saucer.

In Australia, aborigines have many different practices for body piercing. The Papoos of New Guineas are well known for their "bone-in-the-nose" habits.

So you see, recently no has invented anything... excepted stupidity !

Thanks for your posts mdchachi, it's always a pleasure to read you too.

That's better than poking holes in their ears (or cutting foreskins off their chinchin ;-) -- all common practices in the USA.

I almost forgot to comment on the "cutting foreskin off their chinchin" bit :

Do you know that in some large tribes of Africa, young girls have their clitoris severed before the age of 8 or 10 ? Simply because they shall not enjoy love making. And believe me or not, but those rules have been made by... man !

The worst is that it is spreading and applied within the migrant communities wherever they might have migrated, like for instance in the whole of Europe, or in the US and Canada (yes it's true). Recently a couple has been sent to jail in France for such practice and it's not the first time.

Even modern education has no power on the stupidity, but it's in decrease, they say...

[ippolito]

Hey all do you know why oriental have different eyes and nose respstect to caucasian?
There no prize....I have etalken with many orientals and noone gave me a correct asnwer...I have read the answer in a sceintific magazine.....
hello
Ippolito

[kirei_na_me]

That's better than poking holes in their ears (or cutting foreskins off their chinchin ;-) -- all common practices in the USA.

Yep. I definitely agree with you about that. I don't like the idea of dyeing kids' hair, either. All are pretty selfish.

[yimija]

Hey all do you know why oriental have different eyes and nose respstect to caucasian?
There no prize....I have etalken with many orientals and noone gave me a correct asnwer...I have read the answer in a sceintific magazine.....
hello
Ippolito

Yes of course, everybody knows that, if, for that matter, there is only ONE answer to it.

BUT, I have another one for you Ippolito : Do you know why you, Italians, caucasians and africans, have curly hair and why asians, like me, don't ??

good reading to you...

[chiquiliquis]

wait... is it just asians like you... or does the reason account for curly-haired asians too? Cause, while I have not met many, I have met some very, naturally, curly-haired Japanese people....

:?

[kirei_na_me]

Well, there must surely be some, but it must be very rare. That is why I have been told that kids are picked on horribly if they have naturally curly hair or hair that is naturally brown instead of black over there. My husband told me of a girl who went to his elementary school who had both naturally brown and naturally curly hair, and he told me they made fun of her something awful because her hair wasn't straight and black.

Funny thing is, is that a lot of the girls that made fun of her probably grew up to dye their hair and get permanents.

[ippolito]

wait... is it just asians like you... or does the reason account for curly-haired asians too? Cause, while I have not met many, I have met some very, naturally, curly-haired Japanese people....

:?
I mean the form of their eyes and the small nose....
no i am caucasian and my nose is not small........ah ah

Yes of course, everybody knows that, if, for that matter, there is only ONE answer to it.

BUT, I have another one for you Ippolito : Do you know why you, Italians, caucasians and africans, have curly hair and why asians, like me, don't ??

good reading to you...


no I don't
Ippolito

most of us in the mediterraneum area have dark brown eyes meanwhlie
I have light brown as my father had very light blue eyes and my mother
very dark...so came out a mix......my little girl has oriental eyes with light brown color.....anyway I like jp an kr girls with their natural color of their hairs...the external look is important ....more the internal look
I noted that most of jp doesn't let you understand easly what they think
looking their eyes....and sometime they prefer the silence instead to exlpain
what they feell for you.....simpathy or not.....
This remember me sensei Chuck Norris.....he says in stage and seminars
if you have to speak wll about a person speak....if you have to speak badly
silence.....
I do no know if Norris is known in Japan....he is here and in Us...I met him in Las Vegas for the annual Ufaf seminar....he is a very nice person
Oss

hello all
Ippolito



Well, there must surely be some, but it must be very rare. That is why I have been told that kids are picked on horribly if they have naturally curly hair or hair that is naturally brown instead of black over there. My husband told me of a girl who went to his elementary school who had both naturally brown and naturally curly hair, and he told me they made fun of her something awful because her hair wasn't straight and black.

Funny thing is, is that a lot of the girls that made fun of her probably grew up to dye their hair and get permanents.

[Gaki]

Yes of course, everybody knows that, if, for that matter, there is only ONE answer to it.

BUT, I have another one for you Ippolito : Do you know why you, Italians, caucasians and africans, have curly hair and why asians, like me, don't ??

good reading to you...

One of my Japanese friends has naturally curly hair.
She said that kids made fun of her in school, i think her hair looks nice though.

[kirei_na_me]

I have always wanted naturally curly hair... :( My hair is really straight if I don't get a permanent or curl it with a curling iron or curlers.

[Golgo_13]

Hey all do you know why oriental have different eyes and nose respstect to caucasian?
There no prize....I have etalken with many orientals and noone gave me a correct asnwer...I have read the answer in a sceintific magazine.....
hello
Ippolito

Okay Einstein, tell us the scientific reason why Orientals have different eyes, which some people in East Africa also have.

[ashuri2]

That's better than poking holes in their ears (or cutting foreskins off their chinchin ;-) -- all common practices in the USA.

i thought the purpose of circumsion was to prevent later infections that can result from keeping the foreskin on! :D

[Golgo_13]

i thought the purpose of circumsion was to prevent later infections that can result from keeping the foreskin on! :D

Yes, the custom began 3000 or 4000 years ago in the middle-east when showers weren't widely available .

Today's sanitary habits of the West, the custom is not a medical necessity.

:happy:

But mutilating a little girl makes no sense at all other than assuming complete dominance over her life.

[yimija]

Now there is ONE of the answer given by... whoever. Let's wait and see what else Ippolito has to say :

The face and body of the Mongols result from adaptations to the bitter cold of Siberia. The body, and particularly the head, tends to be round, increasing body volume. The evaporative surface area of the skin is thus reduced relative to body volume, and less heat is lost. The nose is small and less likely to freeze, and the nostrils are narrow, warming the air before it reaches the lungs. Eyes are protected from the cold Siberian air by fatty folds of skin. Racial differences also result from the particular tastes of individuals via sexual selection.

Of course, it does'nt mean this one is the right one LOL LOL LOL (I'm mischievous, you know) :cool:

[yimija]

An answer given by Cecil Adams (quoted)

The question, is what the function is of the "epicanthic fold," the extra flap of skin that gives orientals a sort of double upper eyelid. Anthropologists aren't sure, but their best guess is that it's an adaptation that protects against cold and glare. The theory is that the people who eventually became the Mongoloid race were trapped in Siberia by the glaciers during the last ice age, from 50,000 to 25,000 years ago. During that time, when life was truly survival of the fittest and evolution was rapid, the proto-Mongoloids developed a number of physical traits that helped them cope with the bitter weather. For one thing, their noses became flattened, which minimizes exposure to the elements and thus reduces the risk of frostbite. The nostrils got narrower, enabling inhaled air to be warmed up more efficiently and preventing cold air from reaching the lungs. Their faces gradually became round and flat and lined with fat, which acts as an insulator. The eyelids picked up a layer of fat as well, and I suppose without an epicanthic fold they might be a bit difficult to open and close.

Then again, maybe the whole thing was just an accident. Life is like that sometimes.

Well, you see, it's all a matter of interpratation, but it all comes down to the same thing : Nature will make you adapt, very quickly in any situation...

Now you will read some other places that a large community of black african bushmans (called... the yellow bushmans...!!!) have exactly the same type of eyes features and the never went to Siberia or Mongolia. (Well, who knows....LOL). And then you have some european (rare) with same features and they do not have any asian ancestors. So what ?

And you'll notice that some south americans populations such as Incas and Mayas have also this feature. But them, we know for sure, came from Asia, long before we were born, and were ancestors to the american indians (Sitting Bull & all the others). So what ?

One thing I say : Stay close to utter wonder at what Mother Nature can offer us. Open your eyes wide, no matter they are asian or european eyes, funnily enough, we are bound to see the same thing.

[ippolito]

Yes is the same text I have read in the scientific magazine.....
one strange thing in one of my travels i have spent 2 weeks in Nossy be
a nice little island near the main Madagascar.....there I saw many africans with
oriental eyes is the only place in Africa with this particular ethnic caratteristic.
One question.....can you dinstinguish a korean from a japanese?
I can understand only looking how they dress.....
I am agree that everywere it possible to find very nice people end bad people...
Ippolito
kumbawa kup su nida domo arigato
chinese when come here it is easy to understand as they wear horrible clothes
meanwhile japanese women have sometime very nice dresses....(perhaps they bought in Milan or in Rome)....I saw many jp customers in via condotti near the spanish steps were are Valentino, roberto Cavalli Yves Sanlaurant Bulgari shops

[yimija]

Yes is the same text I have read in the scientific magazine.....
one strange thing in one of my travels i have spent 2 weeks in Nossy be
a nice little island near the main Madagascar.....there I saw many africans with oriental eyes is the only place in Africa with this particular ethnic caratteristic.

Well, as it is written in both articles, the eye protection has been "added" by mother nature to protect from snow glare and brightness. As an Italian, you go to the sea side, maybe in Rimini or other, and... you wear sunglasses to protect you from the sun's reflection off the water. Ok so it's the same for people living in this island, they have probably developped that through the ages. Do you remember the name of the island ? I could probably tell you that there is a remote possibility that they are of asian descent, but I have to know of which island you are talking about.

One question.....can you dinstinguish a korean from a japanese?
I can understand only looking how they dress.....

The answer is : yes, but not really. Explanation : Basically, Asian inhabitants from Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea, are of the very same species. Japanes, since they lived "isolated" on an island for a long time have developped facial bones structures and skin complexion slightly different from the continent. Then same thing happened with korean in a different way. So, at one stage, the were quiet different. You can stil see the difference fairly well today when you compare a "pure bred korean" (I dont like the term, but it's the one that goes along with it...) with a "pure bred japanese". But since Korea was invaded several times by chinese and japanese, the "extra-territorial" breeding has taken it's toll (if I may say so). The more it is easy to travel, the more difficult it will become to tell the difference, in a few generation that is. But today it is still possible. Of course clothes, languages, accents, and comportments can help you a lot.

I am agree that everywere it possible to find very nice people end bad people...
Ippolito
kumbawa kup su nida domo arigato
chinese when come here it is easy to understand as they wear horrible clothes Hold on the ramp Ippolito, in a few years the chinese will be the best clients for all those fancy shops you are talking about. just be patient and, if yo9u are wise, open one of those shop right now, and learn chines. You'll be a rich man within 10 years...

meanwhile japanese women have sometime very nice dresses....(perhaps they bought in Milan or in Rome)....I saw many jp customers in via condotti near the spanish steps were are Valentino, roberto Cavalli Yves Sanlaurant Bulgari shops

have a good day Ippolito san, and say hello to Venezia, the city of my dreams

[ippolito]

Well "Ascate" your english is superb......for a japanese.....
Yes all say that China will grow in the next 10 years a lot...
It is too difficolt for me to learn chinese now....i speak english and spanish
some jp words and korean
I should begin a course in italian in June as to get a diploma to teach italian
itariago to foreigners...I already have a school in partnership ready to start in Sep.
and many contacts with jp an kr comunity as to have some sutdents...
but it is hard for me as 1 month full immersion course and i am not young...anymore
back to school...again ....
Actually I teach air tariff to a pubblic tourism school but never teached to a multietnic group-
Also for me is difficolt to distinguish a german from and english or irish
if they do not say a word....also can make some problems people from Sweden
Danimark or Finland......even can make confusion to identify
Romanian bulgarian albanese polish etc....
Did you study antrophology?
the island is Nossy be is a turistic place in north west of Madagascar the biggest island in Africa.
Also you "Ascate" have a nice day i see Venezia in tv I have been there twice
for some days...but have you been in Rome? As you came in Italy
I will say hello to Venezia.

In that article about eyes is the same explantions more about he nose
as we have a bigger nose generally...is beacuse the great cold in siberia
the caucasian 25000 years ago moving to far east via Siberia they
created natural defences for such cold and windy places
ciao
Ippolito



have a good day Ippolito san, and say hello to Venezia, the city of my dreams

[Golgo_13]

The Ainus of Northern Japan and Sakhalin Islands have/had facial features unlike any other Oriental groups.

Where did they come from?

Getting back on topic --

How do the Ainus treat women?

[yimija]

[QUOTE=ippolito]Well "Ascate" your english is superb......for a japanese.....
Yes all say that China will grow in the next 10 years a lot...
It is too difficolt for me to learn chinese now....i speak english and spanish
some jp words and korean
I should begin a course in italian in June as to get a diploma to teach italian
itariago to foreigners...I already have a school in partnership ready to start in Sep.
and many contacts with jp an kr comunity as to have some sutdents...
but it is hard for me as 1 month full immersion course and i am not young...anymore
back to school...again ....
Actually I teach air tariff to a pubblic tourism school but never teached to a multietnic group-
Also for me is difficolt to distinguish a german from and english or irish
if they do not say a word....also can make some problems people from Sweden
Danimark or Finland......even can make confusion to identify
Romanian bulgarian albanese polish etc....
Did you study antrophology? Oh YES !!!!

the island is Nossy be is a turistic place in north west of Madagascar the biggest island in Africa.
Well, that's it Ippolito, Nosy Be the largest and Nosy Faly are two of the Islands off the north-west coast of Madagascar ( a 3rd one is called Nosy Sainte Marie on the north-east coast). Now the first humans to come to the then deserted area (Madagascar and surroundings) were mostly Africans, coming to the east / south east, and a rather large numbers of Indonesians and Malaysian migrants came to the more northern part of Madagascar. (and now you know why you have seen "asian eyes" over there!!!) All those people arrived between year 0 and 900 of our era, (it's not known precisely but happenend over a rather long period of time) which means more than 1'000 to 2'000 years ago. They were called "Merinas" also known as "Hovas", close parents to the "Bestileos" They had a lot of time to mix, the eye feature stayed and the dark skin stayed. Lovely mix, I must say. And that is what you have seen when you recently travelled over there. You'll find almost the same mix in the Comores, Mayotte and Maritius Islands.
But of course, the same population of Malaysian and Indonesian migrants missed the island of Madagascar and therefore arrived on the African continent as well. So it's not much of a surprise to find "asian eyed" black tribes.

for some days...but have you been in Rome? yes i have and it's a beauty. I'll be back..

[QUOTE=ippolito]Well "Ascate" your english is superb......for a japanese.....dont worry, I'm not only japanese... it'a real "fruit salad" inside little me !!!!! LOL !!!

[ippolito]

Hey "ascate" you are like a book.....you know everything...so I
get you that you study or studied antropology..
you are so clever in all subjects...
I have been in Nossy be as in Mauritius and Sayshelles and phuket
and Maldives ....but my favorite is Rangiroa in the tuamoto islands
french Polinesya....i saw many japanese there is very expensive place
but it is a paradise....I went in a daytour in the Bluelagoon
and there are some small islands without habiatants
and is if i could image what is paradise for catholics i would say
that place where the time was stopped.....
if you wish to see it go in Yahoo and put on searh
Rangiroa pisctures ...or write e for pictures
ippolito1@yahoo.it
i will send some in attach file
In Madagascar I have not seen toll people....
when I went there it was possible to scuba and fishing underwater..
I do not know now.....
have a nice day



[QUOTE=ippolito]Well "Ascate" your english is superb......for a japanese.....
Yes all say that China will grow in the next 10 years a lot...
It is too difficolt for me to learn chinese now....i speak english and spanish
some jp words and korean
I should begin a course in italian in June as to get a diploma to teach italian
itariago to foreigners...I already have a school in partnership ready to start in Sep.
and many contacts with jp an kr comunity as to have some sutdents...
but it is hard for me as 1 month full immersion course and i am not young...anymore
back to school...again ....
Actually I teach air tariff to a pubblic tourism school but never teached to a multietnic group-
Also for me is difficolt to distinguish a german from and english or irish
if they do not say a word....also can make some problems people from Sweden
Danimark or Finland......even can make confusion to identify
Romanian bulgarian albanese polish etc....
Did you study antrophology? Oh YES !!!!

the island is Nossy be is a turistic place in north west of Madagascar the biggest island in Africa.
Well, that's it Ippolito, Nosy Be the largest and Nosy Faly are two of the Islands off the north-west coast of Madagascar ( a 3rd one is called Nosy Sainte Marie on the north-east coast). Now the first humans to come to the then deserted area (Madagascar and surroundings) were mostly Africans, coming to the east / south east, and a rather large numbers of Indonesians and Malaysian migrants came to the more northern part of Madagascar. (and now you know why you have seen "asian eyes" over there!!!) All those people arrived between year 0 and 900 of our era, (it's not known precisely but happenend over a rather long period of time) which means more than 1'000 to 2'000 years ago. They were called "Merinas" also known as "Hovas", close parents to the "Bestileos" They had a lot of time to mix, the eye feature stayed and the dark skin stayed. Lovely mix, I must say. And that is what you have seen when you recently travelled over there. You'll find almost the same mix in the Comores, Mayotte and Maritius Islands.
But of course, the same population of Malaysian and Indonesian migrants missed the island of Madagascar and therefore arrived on the African continent as well. So it's not much of a surprise to find "asian eyed" black tribes.

for some days...but have you been in Rome? yes i have and it's a beauty. I'll be back..

[QUOTE=ippolito]Well "Ascate" your english is superb......for a japanese.....dont worry, I'm not only japanese... it'a real "fruit salad" inside little me !!!!! LOL !!!

[yimija]

[QUOTE=ippolito]Hey "ascate" you are like a book.....you know everything...so I
get you that you study or studied antropology..
you are so clever in all subjects...
I have been in Nossy be as in Mauritius and Sayshelles and phuket
and Maldives ....but my favorite is Rangiroa in the tuamoto islands
french Polinesya....
thank you for the compliment, but it's my job. In fact it's called anthropo-paleontology, and it's also a passion.

Yes I agree, Rangiroa is a great place excepted that it's too close to Mururoa (where the french installed their atomic trial center in 1963) for my liking, We do not know exactly what the real damage will be later. And if one of thos "bottle" crack open, it will be a disaster... Let's pray that it doesnt.

[Lina Inverse]

thank you for the compliment, but it's my job. In fact it's called anthropo-paleontology, and it's also a passion.
That really sounds damn interesting :cool:
I wish I could do something that interesting as well, or at least only half that insteresting :(

[yimija]

That really sounds damn interesting :cool:
I wish I could do something that interesting as well, or at least only half that insteresting :(

Hi sweet Lina Inverse,
Yes it is damn interesting because I wanted it to be like that, and I made it to happend.
I dont really understand why you say that. You seem to be an intelligent, open-minded and YOUNG person, no ? And don't tell me you do not have a passion in your life (apart corn flakes... LOL, it's joke...). I'm sure you have some important interests. So what is stopping you ? If you only "wish" you could do something, it will not work. But if you "WANT" to do something, then it'll be all right, right to the top. Don't look at others, just look at you and be proud of who you are because you are worth it, probably a lot more than you think.

love
Mi-ja

[Golgo_13]

In Japanese schools, kids are never addressed by the teacher by their first names. Kids are always called by their last names. Boys get the suffix "-kun" and girls "-san". The kids themselves call each other by their last names and barely even know what the other kids' first names are. Kids who are bullies call others without the -kun suffix.

When attendance is taken in class, boys' names are read out first, then girls'.

However, when kids in the same neighborhood play with each other (who do not go to school together) might call each other by their first names and add the suffix "-chan".