Japan stunned by schoolgirl's murder [Archive]

kirei_na_me

Jun 3, 2004, 02:40

TOKYO (Reuters) - A stunned Japan was searching for answers on Wednesday after an 11-year-old schoolgirl killed a classmate by slashing her throat, the latest in a string of violent crimes by children.

Japan, which had long prided itself on being relatively crime-free, has in recent years been confronted by an increasing number of gruesome youth crimes that have prompted it to lower the age of criminal responsibility.

Stunned Japan Agonizes Over Schoolgirl Stabbing (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=24&u=/nm/20040602/wl_nm/crime_japan_schoolgirl_dc_2)

I can't imagine an 11-year-old girl slashing someone's throat and then strolling back into class with blood all over her clothes. :worried: :(

dreamer

Jun 3, 2004, 04:10

Hum...sad indeed...
Either she's from a ninja family or she really hated her classmate (you know: bullying, menacing to tell a secret...). Kids sometimes don't have much self control...

Glenn

Jun 3, 2004, 06:13

Yeah, but even so, by the age of 7 children know that killing is wrong, much less 11.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 3, 2004, 06:59

But, this is the way that Japanese has been slowly turning over the last 10 years and probably longer if you were to look back. The Japanese education system and parents in Japan are getting more relaxed compared to before...so I think that it would be time to crack that whip to get things in order.

Keiichi

Jun 3, 2004, 08:28

I feel pretty bad for the girl's father. Dreams broken so early. :(

Golgo_13

Jun 3, 2004, 09:27

I'm so glad guns are illegal in Japan, and very few people own hunting rifles.

They could have situations similar to Columbine or the other town in the U.S. where some kid opened fire in school.

Keiichi

Jun 3, 2004, 12:08

I'm so glad guns are illegal in Japan, and very few people own hunting rifles.

They could have situations similar to Columbine or the other town in the U.S. where some kid opened fire in school.
Yeah, anyone saw that LAPD Police program thing on.. I think it was Dateline NBC? Southern LA looks like one pretty messed up place. I don't think I'm ever going to go there... :(

Buddha Smoker

Jun 3, 2004, 14:54

dreamer

Jun 3, 2004, 16:57

well...actually guns are just a fast way too kill people but there's still other weapon from katanas and shuriken to a single knife (or even some sharpened chopsticks like I've seen in a J-movie).
However it's hard to understand what a child is thinking sometimes, and since they don't have much control, they're really impulsives even though they know something's forbidden...

Buddha Smoker

Jun 3, 2004, 20:52

there's still other weapon from katanas and shuriken (or even some sharpened chopsticks like I've seen in a J-movie).

But, when is the last time you've seen a Japanese person carry around some of those...maybe the chopsticks but that's for lunch, etc.. :D

I know this topic is serious but I couldn't resist. :wave:

sadakoyamamura

Jun 3, 2004, 21:32

Scary thing to see one of your classmates go berserk without signs. :worried:

What have these kids been watching? :?
There was a group of boys in my place who was also accused of molesting a girl neighbor. Later when they were questioned, they said they saw the act in a movie and got curious...

Maciamo

Jun 3, 2004, 21:33

Yes, I think this is one reason why Japan is so safe.

Buying or carrying guns is also illegal in Europe and most developed countries except the US. But people don't need guns to commit crimes. A knife (or katana for that matter) is enough. Real criminals (mafia, gangs, etc.) can get guns on the black market anyway (and obviously do not care if it's illegal). So I think Japan is safe for other reasons too.

But the US hasn't the 4th highest rate of murder by firearms in the world (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir) for nothing.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 3, 2004, 22:11

Buying or carrying guns is also illegal in Europe and most developed countries except the US. But people don't need guns to commit crimes. A knife (or katana for that matter) is enough. Real criminals (mafia, gangs, etc.) can get guns on the black market anyway (and obviously do not care if it's illegal). So I think Japan is safe for other reasons too.

But the US hasn't the 4th highest rate of murder by firearms in the world (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir) for nothing.

Isn't it weird how Americans are different from everybody? They don't use the Metric system either??

kirei_na_me

Jun 3, 2004, 22:19

And that really bugs me, Smoker! :mad:

So many things bug me about the U.S. Where to begin? I do have to admit that I like my little section of it, though.

dadako

Jun 4, 2004, 02:59

that stats site is amazing.

btw its the poeple not the guns, look at this;
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_adu_pro_cap

but this tells a totally different picture:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri_cap

There is a theory that theres more crime when the summers are hotter, so that debunks these results as being average, as they are from 1999&2000 only.

Lina Inverse

Jun 4, 2004, 03:32

That's quite freaky indeed... I'm sure the little girl wasn't able to overlook the full consequences of her doing.
that stats site is amazing.

btw its the poeple not the guns, look at this;
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_adu_pro_cap

but this tells a totally different picture:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri_cap

There is a theory that theres more crime when the summers are hotter, so that debunks these results as being average, as they are from 1999&2000 only.
That's quite interesting indeed. When we assume the crimes in the US as 100%, then...
- Canada had only 27% of the rape crimes
- Germany has only 8,4% of the rape crimes
- Japan has only 2,5% of the rape crimes

Also interesting, the "Most militaristic" graph:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_cap
US holds the thirs place (after Israel and Singapore). Germany ist 19., and Japan is 27. place.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 4, 2004, 05:11

And that really bugs me, Smoker! :mad:

So many things bug me about the U.S. Where to begin? I do have to admit that I like my little section of it, though.

At least you enjoy your part but I doubt that I ever return. :D I have my slice right here in Japan. :cool:

Keiichi

Jun 4, 2004, 05:16

I agree, US is a bit too different. Perhaps that's just it. It's just a weird different place with different types of people and different metric system from the rest of the world. :D :D

Uncle Frank

Jun 4, 2004, 05:29

The more freedom you get, the more crazies you get?

Frank

:?

Buddha Smoker

Jun 4, 2004, 05:33

The more freedom you get, the more crazies you get?

Frank

:?

I always thought that was part of the problem :?

kirei_na_me

Jun 4, 2004, 05:42

Here's a follow-up:

TOKYO - An 11-year-old girl's admission Thursday that a spat over the Internet provoked her to kill a classmate and a TV program prompted her to use a box-cutter as a weapon had Japanese questioning whether adults were being vigilant enough.

Girl Says Internet Spat Prompted Slaying (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=516&ncid=731&e=3&u=/ap/20040603/ap_on_re_as/japan_girl_stabbed)

Golgo_13

Jun 4, 2004, 05:56

The more freedom you get, the more crazies you get?

Frank

:?

Yes, because some people confuse "freedom" with freedom to do whatever they want.

It all boils down to good parenting.

kirei_na_me

Jun 4, 2004, 06:01

Well, I tend to believe that too, Golgo.

Riven

Jun 4, 2004, 06:25

Golgo_13

Jun 4, 2004, 06:36

I just want to add that this kind of thing doesn't happen in Japan ALL the time.

Kids can be trusted with deadly weapons. :D :sorry:

den4

Jun 4, 2004, 08:03

Seems like most kids I've seen in Japan are too focused on computer games, and that is not likely to be their fault, either, since there are really fewer places for children to play...unlike in other countries. Most cities I've seen in Japan, especially in and around Tokyo, are focused on making larger buildings for the population density, but there are fewer parks, fewer places where children can actually play, unlike 20-30 years ago (from what I've heard, listening to people who are in their 30's and 40's or older), and so the TV or computer has become their playmate...and there is fewer opportunities to interact with other children.
With fewer chances to interact, those kids aren't able to handle situations that ended up in a physical fight, decades ago, and kids just don't understand that killing is not the same as harming or fighting, until it's too late...
Yes, some may say that Columbine kids had plenty of space to play and so on, but, they, too, from my understanding, had severe problems with interpersonal relations with their peers and anybody else.
I don't believe that the computer game industry is at fault, but I do feel that certain kids, who have problems dealing with others, probably need supervision in making sure they understand the fundamentals of what is right or wrong, since I don't think such understandings can or should be taken for granted any more. Common sense is dead for many folks of all ages in this new millennia, and in order to avoid being a victim, people have to be vigilant and keep the hammer next to you just in case you see some psycho go on the rampage.... :(

Riven

Jun 4, 2004, 14:06

Riven put it's throwing axe on his bag, he has to cross a kindergarten on his way home *j/k* :p :balloon:

stephenmunday

Jun 4, 2004, 14:53

I agree with Golgo that this thing does not happen in Japan all the time.

However, it is the tip of the iceberg of a lot of violence that does go on in the schools and is never reported. My wife works in the public schools and knows of a number of fairly serious incidents of violence and damage to property that were not even reported to the school board. My wife was told to make sure she didn't tell any outsiders either. The fact that less serious incidents get covered up gives the false impression that everything is OK until something so big happens that the lid cannot be kept on it and the press / police get involved. In my wife's school district that occured when two boys decided to try to burn down the building containing the gas cansisters next to the school.....

(Fortunately for them they failed)

TZed9

Jun 4, 2004, 21:01

Your freedom finishs where other's one starts.
Too many things that lead this girl to act... but none to focus on.
Reading this thread just stoke me. Impossible for me to start thinking of any cause, I feel too sorry for this girl. She is the only one to blame, but also to feel feel sorry for. (Sorry hard to express properly in my poor english).

Why am I thinking of 'Battle Royale'?

Responsable parenting is key to avoid a child running wild, but the media also must act responsably. However, China's approach to censorship I do not condone.

den4

Jun 4, 2004, 23:08

Last I heard, on the news, that the girl liked to read the Battle Royale manga.....I guess she was one of those easily influenced into thinking that all her antagonistic feelings had to be dealt with extreme violence? Some kids really do need supervision, but how to separate those that are "normal" from those that have potential for going postal? :?
Yeah, yeah....define normal...(probably those kids that are not prone to violence to solve personal issues?)
But, despite the shocking nature of these violent kids, I figure that even if the trend seems to be on the rise (if we are to believe the news), they are also the exception to the standard.....maybe the adults need to find the nails that are sticking way out and find some therapy to hammer them back to normalcy? :?

dreamer

Jun 4, 2004, 23:19

I think japanese scriptwriters should avoid mixing violence and school -.-

den4

Jun 4, 2004, 23:30

Sukeban Deka had high school girl gangs beating up each other, both in manga and in the tv series and films...although it was a good vs bad people theme.....

Be-Bop High School had guy gangs in high school uniforms running around beating each other up all the time in both the manga and films.....

It's only been recently that the news has picked up on kids that are actually so out of tune with reality that they actually commit crimes with no thought to their actions, aside for the want to get revenge for some petty, idiotic slight, that was once limited to fighting, rather than premeditated murder.....

kirei_na_me

Jun 5, 2004, 00:26

Here's an interesting little tidbit.

Get this:

A Japanese minister has been criticised after he linked a murder committed by an 11-year-old schoolgirl to a rise in female assertiveness.

"This seems to show that vigorous women are increasing," said Kiichi Inoue, disaster prevention minister.

Japan killing comments spark row (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3775845.stm)

Elizabeth

Jun 5, 2004, 01:48

It's only been recently that the news has picked up on kids that are actually so out of tune with reality that they actually commit crimes with no thought to their actions, aside for the want to get revenge for some petty, idiotic slight, that was once limited to fighting, rather than premeditated murder.....
Are these psychological aspects ever really played up to any extent in the mainstream media, though? The only angles I usually see are of course the actual facts of the case as uncovered by the detectives & prosecutors, statements by the families involved, apologies, etc. (certainly not much in the way of independent investigative reporting) and for whatever reason detailed accounts of the suspect's demeanor. In this case I believe the girl looked hesitant, smiling slightly but spoke clearly in the appearance with her lawyer.

den4

Jun 5, 2004, 03:02

You're most likely right....
but the gaffes by the politicians remind me of the Incompetence poster at www.despair.com :D

Buddha Smoker

Jun 5, 2004, 17:56

Yes, because some people confuse "freedom" with freedom to do whatever they want.

It all boils down to good parenting.

That's exactly my point about confusing the meaning of freedom.

I agree very much...it's the parenting that did most of this. Japanese parents don't discipline their children sometimes when need be and then it is possible that is leads to this situation.

sadakoyamamura

Jun 5, 2004, 18:21

Seems like most kids I've seen in Japan are too focused on computer games, and that is not likely to be their fault, either, since there are really fewer places for children to play...unlike in other countries...

What have our kids been watching...

Last I heard, on the news, that the girl liked to read the Battle Royale manga.....I guess she was one of those easily influenced into thinking that all her antagonistic feelings had to be dealt with extreme violence?

or reading??? :worried:

It seems that adults have become too busy to supervise the kids. Kids are very impressionable. I remember a local ad campaign with the slogan: What adults do children will follow. How could they know that doing harm to another person is wrong when the value of life was not taught to them. I also agree with den4 that kids who didn't have time to play with their peers would have problems in interpersonal relationships though not necessarily leading to violence and that is spoken from experience. :-)

Buddha Smoker

Jun 5, 2004, 18:30

I wouldn't say there are fewer places to play but they are just not encouraged to play outside like they use to. Electronics have become a way of life...after all....look how many people are using the Internet and alot of them are kids.

Glenn

Jun 5, 2004, 18:34

Sorry if I make light of the situation, but these arguments seem to be cliche. For example, I am seeing the "where did you get this stuff?" "From you, alright? I learned it from watching you." And "it's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your children are?"

Of course, cliches become so for a reason, but these arguments strike me as being trite. Again, sorry to make light of a serious situation. :gomen:

Buddha Smoker

Jun 5, 2004, 18:38

Elizabeth

Jun 5, 2004, 23:30

Seems like most kids I've seen in Japan are too focused on computer games, and that is not likely to be their fault, either, since there are really fewer places for children to play...unlike in other countries. Most cities I've seen in Japan, especially in and around Tokyo, are focused on making larger buildings for the population density, but there are fewer parks, fewer places where children can actually play, unlike 20-30 years ago (from what I've heard, listening to people who are in their 30's and 40's or older), and so the TV or computer has become their playmate...and there is fewer opportunities to interact with other children.
Bullying and social pressure has always been there, but from what I understand the collapse of the economy in 1990 especially seems to have spawned a host of additional problems from divorce to single parent families, domestic violence, drug abuse etc. which the game/cell phone culture has taken advantage of. It's pretty easy to imagine, really, at risk kids in these situations becoming addicted to a messaging keypad with only a handful of icons ('heart' for friendship/love ; 'tears' for angry, etc) to the point of serious reclusive and uncommunicativeness -- even in some cases unwilling to talk to friends on the same train or in the same building or of course only to virtual friends likely to never even meet. :(

Mana

Jun 6, 2004, 13:41

Bullying and social pressure has always been there, but from what I understand the collapse of the economy in 1990 especially seems to have spawned a host of additional problems from divorce to single parent families, domestic violence, drug abuse etc. which the game/cell phone culture has taken advantage of. It's pretty easy to imagine, really, at risk kids in these situations becoming addicted to a messaging keypad with only a handful of icons ('heart' for friendship/love ; 'tears' for angry, etc) to the point of serious reclusive and uncommunicativeness -- even in some cases unwilling to talk to friends on the same train or in the same building or of course only to virtual friends likely to never even meet. :(

i agree with the whole technology bit kids these days are less communicative in person they rather have their feelings expressed with msgs either thru phones or computers
but i also would like to point the finger at the education system for this matter but, i guess i cant blame all faults of juvenile crime to the education system :sorry:

ashuri2

Jun 7, 2004, 15:23

it never occured to me do this sort of thing when i was young for two reasons:
1. i'd have to go to jail with old, hairy scary guys.
2. on power rangers, they told us to never try this at home.
i got teased a lot when younger, but i never retaliated for the (dubious) above reasons and the fact that i was too scared to fight back. who knows what was going through this girl's mind? maybe she saw it as a fight of 'good vs. evil', and acted according to what she saw happen in such situations on t.v? when i was younger, i remeber doing some crazy things based on a weird way of thinking, and i followed t.v. alot despite the fact that i rarely watched it and my parents were strict...unreality is a seductive place to be, and i know i used to have issues wheni was little with seperating fantasy from reality.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 7, 2004, 19:24

2. on power rangers, they told us to never try this at home.

Or G.I.JOE for others..."Now you know, and knowing in half the battle" :D

Ruri-Ruri

Jun 8, 2004, 08:14

What I found disturbing was that the girl planned the murder for a few days before she carried it out - she had time to change her mind. It's so difficult to try and guess why these things happen, there's usually quite a few factors involved and nothing you can just point a finger at.

Yes, because some people confuse "freedom" with freedom to do whatever they want.

It all boils down to good parenting.

I agree about the freedom thing. It can be so scary when someone's impression of 'freedom' becomes morphed. A while back in London some organisation called the 'White Wolves' planted nail bombs in areas where there were many black and gay people (one in a gay bar killed a straight, pregnant woman and her husband). After some of them were caught one member said "I don't like black people, I don't like gay people. It's who I am. I have a right to be myself".

Golgo_13

Jun 8, 2004, 08:33

Had this incident ocurred in the U.S., there would be trial lawyers all over the victims family trying to figure out who to blame and who to sue for millions of $$$ in damages (most likely the school board). I'm pretty sure that will not be the case in Japan.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 8, 2004, 08:43

Lina Inverse

Jun 8, 2004, 10:20

That is so true...can you imagine the coverage it would probably get?
Yes, I can :relief:
I don't think they would sue the school that much, they rather would sue some series the girl used to watch for it and have freaky headlines like,
"Violent cartoon turns innocent girl into a killing machine" :okashii:

Jean-Francois

Jun 8, 2004, 13:28

I don't think they would sue the school that much, they rather would sue some series the girl used to watch for it and have freaky headlines like,
"Violent cartoon turns innocent girl into a killing machine"

It is all because of MONEY!

Under a contingent fee arrangement, many U.S. lawyers would agree to act on the basis that if the client is successful the lawyers will take as a fee a certain percentage of the proceeds of the litigation. That means there is no charge if the client is unsuccessful! A lawyer maybe motivated to take as many cases as possible and will be happy just to win one because a single contingent fee will cover his expenses in all the cases and oftentimes can leave him with a big sum of money. That痴 why there are so many lawyers going after deep pockets like McDonald and GM.

However, in Canada, contingent fee is prohibited in Ontario and Quebec except in the case of class actions, because it encourages unnecessary and even frivolous litigation. And although the Japanese justice system is under heavy American influence, contingent fee arrangement is generally viewed as unethical by lawmakers and the genreal public.

Buddha Smoker

Jun 8, 2004, 15:44

Yes, I can :relief:
I don't think they would sue the school that much, they rather would sue some series the girl used to watch for it and have freaky headlines like,
"Violent cartoon turns innocent girl into a killing machine" :okashii:

I think you are right and then she would get away with it and then they would sensor cartoons even more.. :D

ashuri2

Jun 9, 2004, 14:03

i'm surprised no one's sued cartoon network over dbz yet...

Elizabeth

Jun 9, 2004, 21:52

Last I heard, on the news, that the girl liked to read the Battle Royale manga.
I don't know about her choice in manga, but there was an article in yesterday's paper chronicling the thoughts & writings she'd recorded on a web site and apparently all the classic warning signs (ie two 'sides' to her personality) were there at least from early this year with a clear 'change' in behavior which two working parents didn't have sufficient time to notice....an increasingly isolated life, bullying classmates (knocking heads against the wall, progressing to the point of kicking and punching boys), quitting club activities and former interests to spend chatting, even some incident with a cutter knife in May....:(

Buddha Smoker

Jun 9, 2004, 22:49

i'm surprised no one's sued cartoon network over dbz yet...

Give it time..I'm sure someone will

kirei_na_me

Jun 9, 2004, 23:03

This article mentions Battle Royale:

Schoolgirl killer frequented violent Internet sites (http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20040609p2a00m0dm007000c.html)

den4

Jun 9, 2004, 23:29

another thing that Japan's notorious right now for is being the #1 nation leading in suicide rates :(
In the past, when you had the nationalistic folks running around in suicide rituals as part of their code of honor, I suppose that was one thing, but the folks committing suicide these days, or trying to, like the actor fella that "jumped?" from his "mansion" recently, all seem to have this notion that life is no longer precious. That is sad. Then there are the stupid websites that promote suicides, as if it were some kind of game that some idiot youths are taking to... :(
Kind of hard to imagine somebody who once loved being part of a basketball team, like the 11 year old in this thread, suddenly change towards becoming a rogue killer. Makes me wonder what caused the change, what catalyst caused her to go over the "edge."

Seems like a lot of the kids that are causing these crimes tend to be loners, drop outs, lack social contact with others (all redundant, I know), quiet, shy, good students (as far as the teachers could tell), and never had any prior run ins with the Law. Since most kids never head towards a life of crime, much less commit heinous murder, like it was a game, it'd probably be good for the police, at least, to learn what motivated her to change from being part of a team basketball group and turn towards murder...

at the same time, I guess adults are pretty much in the same boat....aside from the greed factor of many petty thieves, what causes them to do some of their mindbogglingly idiot things, too.... :?

Elizabeth

Jun 9, 2004, 23:58

ashuri2

Jun 10, 2004, 14:08

It isn't much, but this is the most insight I've seen on her reasons for quitting the basketball team (from a classmate's father that Satomi (is that her name?) was forced off by her parents at the point her grades began falling.

「様子が変わったのはミニバスケ部を辞めてから」。ある児童の母親は話す。今年２月のことだ。同級生の父親は「親から成績が下がったら部を辞めさせると厳しく言われていたようだ」と言う。

basketball might have been her only way of releasing the pressure she felt from school and so forth. my counselor advised my parents not to keep me cooped up in the house (and prevenitng me from doing my school clubs), and of course they didn't listen...i won't tell you what the result of that was...but i know how that can feel to be forced of something you might be using to relax and it acutally worsens the situation.
i think i'm taking this whole thing a bit too personally O.o but i'm seeing some between some stuff for her and some stuff i've begun to notice from my own tender years. *that's scary* it makes you wonder how easily any of us at the age might have sucumbed to pressures the way she did. :?

Buddha Smoker

Jun 10, 2004, 14:47

basketball might have been her only way of releasing the pressure she felt from school and so forth. my counselor advised my parents not to keep me cooped up in the house (and prevenitng me from doing my school clubs), and of course they didn't listen...i won't tell you what the result of that was...but i know how that can feel to be forced of something you might be using to relax and it acutally worsens the situation.
i think i'm taking this whole thing a bit too personally O.o but i'm seeing some between some stuff for her and some stuff i've begun to notice from my own tender years. *that's scary* it makes you wonder how easily any of us at the age might have sucumbed to pressures the way she did. :?

Still boils down to parenting...just my opinion.

Elizabeth

Jun 10, 2004, 23:57

Maciamo

Jun 11, 2004, 22:54

Avatars ?

I have just had a 20 minute talk with a Japanese acquaintance about this murder case, and she told me that all Japanese newspapers had mentioned that the girls were using avatars. I really didn't see the connection between avatars and the murder, and still don't after asking all the questions I could to see clearer into this strange relation. Apparently, the two girls were using the Internet and either chatted or used some kind of forums. The problem is that many Japanese cannot differientiate between forum and chat, so I had a hard time understanding the story, as they said "they used avatars to chat" (???). The victim would have written some slightly critical message (such as "you pretend to be a good girl"), which could have provoked the murderous reaction from the other girl (still hard to believe that was the only reason).

Anyway, I asked many times what was the connection between the "avatar" and the crime, but there didn't seem to be any. I am really wondering why Japanese newspapers are explaining so much about avatars if there is no connection to the case. But it seems that they just made a huge offtopic to explain to old people what an avatar is. It's a bit like starting to explain about holy cows when talking about the "Japan vs India" football game. No direct relation to it. That could happen to one newspaper, but apparently most of them (and TV channels ?) talked about that. Could anybody explain that to me ?

I hope it's not just that Japanese journalists are confusing the words "avatar", "chat" and "forum", and making fools of themselves.

kirei_na_me

Jun 11, 2004, 22:59

That's very strange, to say the least, Maciamo.

I guess you all have heard about 'Nevada-tan' (http://www.video-fenky.com/)? Scroll down the page to June 6.

Elizabeth

Jun 12, 2004, 00:19

Well, Asahi at least is using chat explicitly in a somewhat global reference to her postings on a home page (?) in the article I cited earlier.

パソコンが得意で、女児とは「チャット」と呼ばれるＨＰ上の会話や掲示板を楽しんでいた。

　女児は県警に「怜美さんから自分の掲示板に『ぶりっこ』などと書かれたのが嫌だった。ＨＰ上で怜美さんにやめてほしいと書いたが、やめてくれなかった」と話している。５月下旬のことだったという。

　その後、女児は怜美さんが作ったＨＰ上のキャラクターを消すなどしたらしい。事件の２日前、怜美さんはＨＰに書き込んだ。「ドーセアノ人がやってるんだろう。アノ人もこりないねぇ」

　そして６月１日、カッターナイフが惨劇を引き起こした。

　両親は女児の変化に気付かなかったのか。「２人とも仕事を持っていて、『子供と接する機会が足りなかったのだろう』と言っている」。女児の付添人の弁護士は４日、記者会見で説明した。 (06/08 23:48)

Maciamo

Jun 12, 2004, 09:55

パソコンが得意で、女児とは「チャット」と呼ばれるＨＰ上の会話や掲示板を楽しんでいた。

Exactly what I suspected. Japanese have no idea about the Internet.

That sentence translates :

The girl was good at computers and "played" on forums or conversation on homepages called "chat".

That doesn't make any sense and shows the sheer ignorance of the writer about things related to the internet, as well as the misuses of the words "chat" and "HP" (homepage) in Japanese.

First of all, "forum" and "chat" are two clearly different things.

Secondly, "homepage" does not mean "website". I don't know why Japanese insist on using the word "HP" instead of "ウェッブサイト" (uebbusaito). A homepage is either the main index of a website (so never the chat or forum part), or it could be used to refer to a personal website with info about the author (pics, hobbies, diary...).

No wonder I couldnt understand at all what my Japanese friend told me about "using avatars to chat on a homepage", when she probably meant "using avatars to discuss on a forum".

But I guess the word "avatar" has also been abused by Japanese. I know several of them for whom avatar only refers to the "Yahoo Japan Avatars", which are more like a game in which users buy clothes, pets and accesories for their "avatar". It could also be that Japanese use "avatar" in the meaning of "nickname" or "user name" on forums and chat (but what do they call the picture then ?). I still haven't eluded the mystery of these weird Japanese English usages, and it certainly irritates me.

Hachiko

Jun 12, 2004, 10:24

Hum...sad indeed...
Either she's from a ninja family or she really hated her classmate (you know: bullying, menacing to tell a secret...). Kids sometimes don't have much self control...

Real Bout High School...in Real Life! :ninja: :eek:

Keiichi

Jun 12, 2004, 10:54

I was in a chat with some Japanese guy before too about "homepage" also. It was a bit funny. He asked me in Japanese what was my homepage. First, I took it as the definition of "a personal website." So I said (in English) I used to have one, but not anymore. I don't think he understood me and asked me again in a different way, so the way he said it, I'm now thinking he's talking about the opening page, such as when you run a browser. So I now said Yahoo. He then said, "Yahoo?" I was unsure if he was surprised or just repeating what I said. Then I said that "Of course, I didn't make Yahoo" thinking he might have thought that may have been my personal website. I just dropped that convo already without knowing what he really wanted to know... :D :D

stephenmunday

Jun 14, 2004, 10:41

The Chunichi Shimbun on Sunday 13th June was commenting on the change in the "avatar" (whatever it is :) ) the girl was using to represent herself. The points they focused on were that the background to her "avatar" was always night, indicating a negative outlook, and the fact that she changed her avatar about a week before the incident from a cute girl to a weird "pumpkin-head" person. The psychologist analyzing this took this to indicate a major personality shift at this point.

Perhaps it is all guesswork, but it is an interesting analysis.

Elizabeth

Jun 14, 2004, 12:06

Too bad the girl apparently deleted all incriminating exchanges in the last week before the incident between herself and the victim from her (or whoevers) home page bulletin board.

den4

Jun 14, 2004, 13:10

can't they get a warrant or whatever they use in Japan to confiscate and search the computer and do a hard disk reclaim to search for the deleted info? They do that all the time in corporate offices and investigations here....in the US.... :?
I know that in some areas Japan is behind the US in the IT field, but surely not all of their police are idiots the media makes them out to be :?

stephenmunday

Jun 14, 2004, 13:12

Yesterday's Chunichi Shinbun was quoting her posts from May 31st, so that data must still be extant somewhere.

Elizabeth

Jun 14, 2004, 18:30

http://www.asahi.com/special/sasebo/OSK200406100049.html

Does （原文のまま） refer to original text here ? Apparently some of the other HP contents have not been verified, however, and the police are simply relying on the girl's explanation. :?

「ぶりっこ」自分で消去と女児　ＨＰのＩＤ、教え合う？
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

　長崎県佐世保市の大久保小学校で６年御手洗怜美（みたらい・さとみ）さん（１２）がカッターナイフで切られて死亡した事件で、家裁送致された同級生の女児（１１）が、怜美さんのホームページ（ＨＰ）のＩＤとパスワードを「知っていた」と県警に説明していたことが分かった。女児は「怜美さんのＨＰに『ぶりっこ』などと書かれ、この世からいなくなれと思った。『やめて欲しい』と書き込んでも続けたので、自分で消した」と説明しているという。

　県警は、仲間うちでパスワードなどを教え合っていたのではないかと推測しているが、やりとりの内容は女児の説明によるもので、ＨＰ上では確認していない。

　女児はほかに、怜美さんが作ったＨＰ上のキャラクターも消すなどしたらしい。怜美さんは事件の２日前、自分のＨＰに「荒らしにアッタんダ。マァ大体ダレがやってるかワかるケド」「ほっとけばいいや。ネ。ミンナもこういう荒らしについて意見チョーダイ」（原文のまま）と、女児を意識したとみられる書き込みをしていた。

den4

Jun 14, 2004, 23:40

http://www.japantimes.com/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040613a3.htm
father won't read letter by parents of the kid that killed his daughter

Flashjeff

Jun 22, 2004, 06:14

Well, there's been more than plenty of bloodshed on this rock L-O-N-N-N-N-G before the invention of gunpowder. As I recall, Cain wasn't packing a nine when he whacked Abel, violence has been part of the human condition ever since man first walked erect, and that's never going to change. Guns simply expidite the process these days.

Now, as for what happened with that kid, slashing her classmate to death, that just plain defies belief. One would hope that was a freak occurance, that something snapped inside that girl and she lost it, you'd hate to see that become a common occurance. Then no one would be safe in class. Hmm! Sounds like life in American schools!
:shock:

Golgo_13

Jun 22, 2004, 06:19

I got a hold of a copy of the New York Post yesterday so I was reading up on what's been happening in the old Big Apple.

Some teenager stabbed another to death for not sharing with him some juice or soda or something. In the U.S. such incidents are not reported nationwide, and will be forgotten in a few days.

In Japan, such incidents are covered nationally in the media and discussed for days and weeks.

Lina Inverse

Jun 22, 2004, 06:42

Elizabeth

Jun 22, 2004, 09:06

First of all, "forum" and "chat" are two clearly different things.Which even a formal investigation has failed to clarify completely. Although home page to mean web site would still be pretty incredible if 70% of these girls had their own....maybe it's more like just a one page link with their avatar and other essential biographical information. :D

http://www.asahi.com/special/sasebo/JJT200406140003.html

ネット利用する小６～中１女子、７割がＨＰ持つ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
インターネットを利用している１２～１３歳の女子の７割が自分のホームページ（ＨＰ）を持ち、「掲示板への書き込み」「チャット」はともに９割以上が経験していることが１４日までに、インターネット調査サービス「ｉＭｉ（いみ）ネット」（ライフメディア運営）が、長崎県佐世保市の小６女児殺害事件後に実施した調査で分かった。

　調査は、ネットを利用する全国の小学６年と中学１年の女子児童・生徒９４人が対象。ＨＰを持っているのは６９％、掲示板、チャットの経験はともに９４％と大半を占めた。（時事）

Although perhaps they are full-fledged sites.....here's a record of the victim's page as she left it.

http://www.asahi.com/special/sasebo/OSK200406190017.html

Gaki

Jul 5, 2004, 02:46

Arc Light

Jul 5, 2004, 04:08

This could have gone in another forum...not here.

nevermind...forgot to notice where I'm looking. Sorry...

ashuri2

Jul 6, 2004, 01:35

Nevada song:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/zzn/nevada/nevada.mp3

Nevada Flash:
http://www.shrinemaiden.com/SaseboSlasher/CutieNeVaDa.swf

Nevada Fan-Art and Etc..:
http://www.shrinemaiden.com/SaseboSlasher/

Oh yeah should mention if you're easily shocked or disturbed you probably shouldnt look at the fan-art, some of it is pretty graphic and messed up.

O.o *rushes to toilet and throws up* that fan site is pretty sick, this is the last thing that girl would need to see, oh wow....they've made an idol of her, the girl needs help not encouragement or deification. how did you find those sites?

Xkavar

Jul 6, 2004, 16:21

You know, I live in Nevada. An hour's drive from Reno.

I don't know what my feelings are towards this girl. The phrase "going Columbine" comes to mind, where two students also fed up used some guns and explosives to kill some students.

As a political statement, her sweatshirt should have been "Colorado". Or "Iraq".

She's 11. There had to be one hell of a stress factor in her life to consider offing another woman.

I don't know enough still, even after looking through the fan art, to determine... how I should feel. I am indifferent to this right now.

kirei_na_me

Jul 7, 2004, 05:26

NIIGATA -- An 11-year-old elementary school boy who attacked a schoolmate with a knife has been taken into custody, police said.

The sixth-grade student, who has not been named as he is a minor under the Juvenile Law, left his classroom during the lunch break at the Iguri Elementary School in Sanjo, Niigata Prefecture, and entered the next classroom where the other boy was sitting at about 1 p.m.

Knife-wielding boy attacks schoolmate (http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200407/06/20040706p2a00m0dm016001c.html)

NIIGATA, July 6, Kyodo - An 11-year-old boy slashed a 12-year-old schoolmate with a kitchen knife Tuesday in a classroom of an elementary school in Sanjo, Niigata Prefecture, inflicting cuts on his right arm and left hand, police said.
The boy, who was taken into police custody, said the schoolmate had spoken ill of him and had been insulting, according to the police.

11-year-old boy slashes schoolmate with knife in Niigata (http://home.kyodo.co.jp/all/display.jsp?an=20040706241)

den4

Jul 7, 2004, 05:49

kids these days can't take a bit o' name calling..... :(

Elizabeth

Jul 7, 2004, 06:02

From this Asahi article, one slur supposedly was 'Mougure,' implying 'Hey you, you're slightly odd' Anyone know how serious that is? :p

同校の校長らが話を聞いたところ、男子児童は「『もうぐれ』と言われて腹が立った」と話した。「少し変なやつ」といった意味の言葉だという。

cicatriz esp

Sep 2, 2004, 07:34

Any parent who allows a kid younger than 13 on the internet unsupervised is an idiot.

kirei_na_me

Sep 2, 2004, 07:43

Any parent who allows a kid younger than 13 on the internet unsupervised is an idiot.

I agree wholeheartedly.

PopCulturePooka

Sep 2, 2004, 11:34

WHAT THE HELL?

What is with that fan-art bull-sh*t on that site?

Thats the sickest stuff I have ever seen.

ashuri2

Sep 3, 2004, 07:37

WHAT THE HELL?

What is with that fan-art bull-sh*t on that site?

Thats the sickest stuff I have ever seen.

i must admit, it's one of the few times in my life i've almost been physically made sick by pictures... :sick:

babar-san

Sep 19, 2004, 03:12

Isn't it weird how Americans are different from everybody? They don't use the Metric system either??

buhahahahaha!!!!! nope, no metric system:)
and
those are sick pictures based around a very depressing event, not to be glorified by any means.

Gackt_Camui

Dec 26, 2004, 10:20

Stunned Japan Agonizes Over Schoolgirl Stabbing (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=24&u=/nm/20040602/wl_nm/crime_japan_schoolgirl_dc_2)

I can't imagine an 11-year-old girl slashing someone's throat and then strolling back into class with blood all over her clothes. :worried: :(

wow i wish i was that brave when i was that age :smoke:

Any parent who allows a kid younger than 13 on the internet unsupervised is an idiot.

haha thats funny you might as well not have the internet at all

Shin

Dec 26, 2004, 17:57

It's more like a stress...

Being influence by violence overcome one's dankest side..

jerry4

Dec 27, 2004, 11:25

art is very abstract....

zero g

Jan 29, 2005, 18:15

I think she had a reason i bet the girl was pissing her off and she just went postal! I agree though U.S. is one screwed place believe me I live here and I admit it sucks...
because there are so many races here it starts to get confusing which race to take care of and most people get in gangs and shoot people a lot! :souka:

some girl made me mad in my 7th Grade and I threw a pencil in her eye and she started saying I did it on purpose when I did it on accident...
I don't like violence that much when people piss me off I get pissed and yell a lot... I don't like to yell but sometimes people don't listen...

Ma Cherie

Jan 30, 2005, 05:00

Japan has been considered one of the safests places to live and then something like this happens. So Japan is no exception, and it shouldn't be either. Besides, the incident with the 11 year old sounds like a case of bullying to me. And these days bullying has taken on such extreme consequences it's getting to point where kids are turning to violence. I don't think it really matters where you live.