"ni", "he" or "de" ?

[dreamer]

Hi , there's one question I'd like to ask.
I don't understand when people use "ni", "he" or "de" to express a localisation.

I've seen sentences like "asoko ni arimasu" and some other like "tokyo de machimasu" but I4ve rarely seen "he" and don't understand when to use one or another of these 3 words.
Can someone explain it please?

[Kintaro]

(amateur answering)
ni and he have a sense of motion involved. With that out of the way;

Tokyo de machimasu : (he/she/it is) Waiting in Tokyo (for who knows what). The subject in question is not moving at all. It's someplace. Like Terebi de machimasu. Waiting in front of the TV.

Since I am rusty since I do not have a penpal of any kind, I can't give great examples for ni and he (pronounced e, written he). he denotes a current transient state (most of the time, there are exceptions to everything).

Tokyo he ikimasu : I'm going to Tokyo, but more in a "I've left already/I'm on my way to Tokyo" state.

Ni is then usually used to denote that there was a spatial displacement involved, but not in the sense of here and now, but maybe yesterday, or a long time ago...
Asoko ni arimasu : That place exists over there. Spatial displacement/positioning (since Koko ni aru would be no displacement) but no direct act of going somewhere as it is being said. Like asking for directions. They'll tell you where it is, but not necessarily bring you there.

[Glenn]

Here is a detailed explanation of when to use either de or ni (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/message/jpnE6751u2gE4Ns3bes.html).

As for e, it seems to be largely interchangeable with ni of motion (as opposed to existence), although I have heard that ni is more like "to" and e is more like "towards." So both 東京に行きます (toukyou ni ikimasu)and 東京へ行きます (toukyou e ikimasu) mean nearly the same thing.

[Elizabeth]

And here's another (actually two if you count the subthread thread) look at 'e' and 'ni'....

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6508&highlight=letter

[cacawate]

If I remember correctly*, I believe my teacher taught us that when using "ni" and "he" for motion the "ni" is used in a sense that you are going to do something while "he" can mean you are just going.

Toukyou he ikimasu = I will go to Tokyo.
Toukyou ni ikimasu = I will go to Tokyo (to meet my friend; on business; etc.).

-Jeff

*I usually don't

[Elizabeth]

That is one use of "ni," as the reason for an activity, but it isn't the only one.

'Like I'm going to the airport to meet my friend'
Watashi no tomodachi wo mukae ni (not he) Kuukou he (ni、or made) ikimasu.

Otherwise, it seems 'ni' is probably 3-4 x more common for XXX ?? ikimasu without any significant change in meaning.

[dreamer]

Dang it's getting more and mroe complicate :mad:
Anyway thanx for the answer I'll try to find more examples

[Elizabeth]

And to make it even worse 'de' often doesn't correspond to a physical location as it's usual thought of. For instance :

'Kare no tegami de wa.....nihongo wo sukoshii tsukaimashita.' In his letter, he used a little Japanese.

In this case, de instead of ni because the action (writing) isn't dependent on the place....and the place isn't itself acted on by the writing.

[splice]

I don't know... When people try to learn basic points of grammar like this, isn't the best answer obvious? Get a textbook. Learn the language. I've always thought trying to learn japanese from a message board is not a good idea. Fine for clarifications, but trying to figure out how to use de/ni/he from people who are also learning the language? Why not find a teacher or textbook, they're made for that.

I guess I'm just confused about all the "what does kanji X mean", "can you explain this basic grammar point for me", etc. Get a textbook and a dictionary, problem solved. You know, the old saying, "give a man a fish..."? Applies great here too.

Sorry for derailing the thread, I was just wondering.

[dreamer]

Actually I do have a text book, but it's really confused, and my friend who comes from japan couldn't be clearer either ^^'

[splice]

Ah. In those cases, I say just go with it. Some stuff just won't come clear to you until later on, either when reading something else or you'll realize down the line that you know how to use them at that point.

Or, in other words, if a textbook and a Japanese friend can't help you (though a teacher is better), put it aside and go on. You'll get a better feel for Japanese as you go, and at some point the light will come on :) At least, that's the way it happens for me.

[dreamer]

well...If I'm accepted in the University of technology I'm applying next year I'd be able to chose real japanese lessons instead of learning it only through games and animes :D