Would you rather live in America or Japan?

[SpikeDaCruz]

"Baka! DaiNippon!" Not a difficult choice. :-)

[kireikoori]

I want the best place on the planet to be an animist pagan.
Japan would appear to be better than America to practice Paganism.

[tada]

This would have been a much harder choice before 2001. Now it's too easy.

[kusojiji]

??????????????????????????

[kireikoori]

??????????????????????????
Do I not have my Japanese text activated right?

[tada]

Do I not have my Japanese text activated right?

はい、正しく表示されていません。変更しましょう。

[Karuchan]

very hard choice to me!
Maybe Obama-effect would let me say USA......

[tada]

It's not like the USA will suddenly once again become a great place to live overnight, or even within a year, or a term as he himself said in his acceptance speech.

All I know is that my confidence in the US has reached an all-time low that I never thought it could reach.

[Drew-san]

For now, since I haven't been to Japan I can say Japan. :D

[Chidoriashi]

Not to question your logic there Drew-san, but how can you know that you want to live in Japan over the US if you have not even been here?

For me I could do either, but ultimately I want to go back home to the US, for many reasons, but a big one is that I will never be Japanese...meaning I will always be looked upon and treated as a foreigner.

[Drew-san]

Well, not being there yet I haven't experienced the bad sides. Yet, here I have. The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there. :)

[JerseyBoy]

I decided to pick USA after 1.5 years of stay in Japan. Even though I have a condo here in Tokyo, I am going to rent it out for the long haul. I simply cannot see myself in such a crowded country for the rest of my life. In the hindsight, I regret I came back after many years of stay in USA (but, at the same time, it was good I came back to Japan to realize how I am not really into Japan). If everything goes well, I would be relocating back to the East Coast in a month or two.

[Pachipro]

I decided to pick USA after 1.5 years of stay in Japan. Even though I have a condo here in Tokyo, I am going to rent it out for the long haul. I simply cannot see myself in such a crowded country for the rest of my life. In the hindsight, I regret I came back after many years of stay in USA (but, at the same time, it was good I came back to Japan to realize how I am not really into Japan). If everything goes well, I would be relocating back to the East Coast in a month or two.
I hope you have a good, secure job lined up Jersey Boy as you will be coming to a country that will economically and financially collapse within the next year to 18 months. Unemployment is at an all time high, personal bankruptcies are at an all time high and increasing weekly, firms are laying off by the thousands on a weekly basis and things are just not good here right now. Even my own company, which has never had a lay off in its 76 year history is laying off about 20% this month!

The financial/economic news is dismal and there is absolutely no good news on the horizon. I really don't understand why anyone would want to come to the USA right now. Even Japan announced that they are in a recession yesterday as well as the rest of the world. If I were you I'd stay in Japan if you have secure employment as the unemployment rate is expected to rise above 10% especially if GM and Ford declare bankruptcy. For the moment, at least, the yen is strong vs the US$ and will only get stronger as the US dollar collapses in the near future.

My feeling is the fall will begin in February of 2009 when 4th quarter results are issued which will show the worst quarter in more than 50 years and which will probably take the US stock market to around 5 - 6,000 if not lower further worsening the US economy.

And if anyone thinks that President Obama will save the US from financial collapse they are sadly misled and should be chanting "O baaaaaa ma" as they are sheeple anyway and believe he will save them from collapse when there is no way on God's earth he can do it.

[ArmandV]

Unemployment is not at an "all time high." It is around 6-7% now, whereas, it was 12% under Jimmy Carter.

[Pachipro]

It is at an all time Armand. The US is hiding it with their bogus death/birth models and the fact that they do not include those that have given up finding a job after their unemployment benefits run out. It is all a lie!

The true figure is well above the 7% they want us to believe just as are the figures for inflation, which is actually hovering around 11% and the trade deficit and such. Is it any wonder why the figures are always "revised" the next quarter? If the US were to state the real inflation figures they would have to increase benefits to Social Security recepients by the same amount! Of course they would never tell the truth. C'mon, you are not that naive to believe what is printed in the papers and reported in the press and reported on CNBC are you? One look at your grocery bill compared to last year should tell you that inflation is well above 10%. Mine is and I keep track of it.

Rember the old adage: "Figures lie, and liars figure." It has not changed. You wait and see what the revised figures are next quarter. They will be much higher than what we are being told today as it is the same with everything else the government tells us.

Unemployment is actually higher than it was in the 70's and if the model of the 70's were used as well as for inflation as it was back then, you'd see and understand it. We never had "core inflation" (minus energy and food prices) back then and, if we did, inflation, as well as unemployment would be way lower than what was printed back then.

If one takes "real inflation" into account the average American worker has actually lost ground and makes far less, in real dollars, than he/she did back then. The same holds for unemployment figures.

Inflation and unemployment is what the press and government says it is and sadly, many people beleieve it without doing their own real research for if they did, they would soon discover that it was all a lie and that the figures were much higher than what we were told they were as they are always printed and revised later on. But who notices that? Hardly anyone and that is what "they" are counting on.

[ArmandV]

Where's your proof?

Actually, the addage is, "Figures don't lie, but some liars figure."

[Aurura]

Pachipro san, you live in the US.... are you staying in the US when the collapse comes? With as far down as our country is plummetting and the highly detailed way that you share your knowledge of it all, it seems that you don't really wanna be here.

What would be the best country to live in for the next upcoming years?

I would love to have a long-term (up to a year, perhaps) visit Japan at least once before life is over for me, but U.S is where I was born and raised.
Whether we rise back up from this financial rut or not, we are a country that has a history of knowing how to survive. It may not be the much, but at least it's something. Even if things never get any better, being able to adapt is still possible, isn't it? Even in the slightest bit? Perhaps not *every* citizen would know how to, but at least we as a whole can try to together.

[tada]

I really can't believe people can tell me not to be against working in the US. I have a feeling those people have not been here recently.

[JerseyBoy]

I hope you have a good, secure job lined up Jersey Boy as you will be coming to a country that will economically and financially collapse within the next year to 18 months.
But, is Japan almost in the same boat on that? The Japanese government has been running up the budget deficits for so many years and it could be a prime candidate for bankruptcy. I have started looking in information on the future economic landscape and I noticed there were so many dooms-sayers for USA in the 80's as well when Donald Reagan was doing the spend and borrow policy on the grand scale. But, still USA stands as a sole superpower. If US goes down the tube, I believe Japan follows the same path swiftly as it holds billions of US treasury notes. It would be scary to be on such barren small islands when Japanese' economy and government's finance collapse.

[Uchite]

As a musician, I can say there are even less gigs here in America now. Gigs that you can live off of that is. At least in Japan, people seem to really appreciate true art and culture. Here it is going down the drain more and more. All you have to do is either be a snob, have an attitude, have a huge ego, have a tattoo, have body piercings or be by (or all of the above) to "make it.

In all other endeavors, it seems to be the same way. Look at the unemployment rate. Look at the so called "bail out". Why are all these things happening?

Will Obama really come to the rescue? Change? Yes there will be change alright, but not for the better.

I think some of America's darkest days will be starting only a few months ahead right after Inauguration Day.

Where will all the prisoners at Guantanamo go? Will they be tried on U.S. soil? You betcha! They will be given every right that all Americans have, right to a fair trial, tons of trial lawyers set to make millions. Shoot! Even bin Laden himself will be able to get a fair trial here, make bail and go free to the nearest airport and won't even be searched because that will violate his "civil rights" as deemed by the new color blind (supposed), incoming fairness doctrine endorsing administration.

I think America will be hit and hit hard. The question is not if, but when. I don't want to be here when it happens.

And just watch: The U.S. Government will bail out the lazy workers at GM who have no inclination of doing a proper job with pride of purpose in it, but are only working for and toward punching out the timeclock, the paycheck, retirement and a pension. That is the mentality of the average U.S. worker! No wonder this country is in the trouble it is in!

Take me to Japan anyday over the upcoming future U.S.A.!

[Pachipro]

Where's your proof?
There's plenty out there. Some links:

http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=74332

But the government’s “unemployment rate” statistic is a propaganda device. It does not count as “unemployed” people who are “not in the labor force.” According to economist Richard DuBoff, participation in the labor force by working-age males has been drifting downward for more than 40 years. Therefore, the government’s official “unemployment rate” is an increasingly misleading statistic.

From OpEdNews (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_fol_080408_culinary_accounting_3b.htm) :

Lost jobs in construction and manufacturing seem to be leading the way to the bottom. Let’s apply some Mikeronomics to that problem and see if we can flesh out the reason.

Housing is in the toilet (that’s an economic term), and those people who used to build houses don’t do that anymore. The people who used to manufacture the things to build houses with, don’t do that anymore either. Neither group buys new autos with their unemployment compensation checks…so I guess that about solves the mystery.
The government will come to these same conclusions about 6 months from now.

In March, the U.S. lost 80,000 jobs, but that’s old hat and you heard it on the 6 o’clock News. What you didn’t hear on the local or national or world news was that on average, the U.S. adds 180,000 jobs per month. Want to know why? Because there are on average, 180,000 new job seekers each and every month. Want to know why? Because we believe that growth is good.

But this is not the end of the good news. During the past 90 days, the U.S. has lost 232,000 jobs. That means that each month, 180,000 people entering the job market also failed to find employment, but are not included in the numbers, as they were never employed previously.
The actual real unemployment then, grew by 772,000 in 90 days. They probably just forgot to tell us that on the 6 o’clock news huh?

...........This calculates that best case, 12 months from now, 2,160,000 people will have not found work…but won’t be reported as unemployed!

Another one from the marketoracle (http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4742.html):

Frankly, a 5% unemployment rate lacks statistical credibility and certainly fails to document the pain of America's unemployed. Let's take a closer look at the BLS data:

Since its peak in September 2006, construction employment has fallen by 457,000.

Over the past 12 months, manufacturing employment has declined by 326,000.

Since its peak in March 2007, the retail trade industry has shed 137,000 jobs.

The health care industry has added 365,000 jobs over the past 12 months.

Professional and technical services employment rose by 27,000 in April after showing little change during the first quarter of 2008.

Since October 2007, food services employment growth has declined to an average of 13,000 jobs per month; this compares to an average increase of 28,000 jobs per month for the preceding 12-month period.

Total unemployment increased by 11.6% from 6,532,000 persons in April of 2007 to 7,287,000 persons in April of 2008.

The number of people who lost their job, or were no longer holding a temporary job, increased by 21.0% from April 2007 to April 2008.

The number of people who were told they had permanently lost their job increased by 30.1% during this same period.

From Q1 2006 to Q1 2008, the number of Layoff events has increased by 45.3%.

They increased by 20.6% from Q1 2007 to Q1 2008. There has been a continuing increase in the number of layoff events, and the number of Total Initial Claimants, since August of 2007.

Despite these data points from the BLS report, the BLS claims the Unemployment Rate has increased from only 4.30% in April 2007, to a negligible 4.76% in April of 2008. Does this create a credibility problem?

There's plenty more than where these came from. The fact remains, the governments of all countries, especially Japan, manipulates the unemployment rate in order to show that things are less worse than many perceive until it gets too bad and more people stand up and take notice. It has been going on for many years and will continue to go on until more people become informed as to the daily propaganda they are constantly being fed.

[Pachipro]

Pachipro san, you live in the US.... are you staying in the US when the collapse comes? With as far down as our country is plummetting and the highly detailed way that you share your knowledge of it all, it seems that you don't really wanna be here.
No, I really don't want to be here and I wouldn't be if it weren't for my dog. I know that sounds like a lame excuse, but I explained that elsewhere in another post. Also, my job is recession proof and I enjoy it and it pays well. Even though we will have a 20% layoff in the next two weeks, I will be not be affected because of my seniority. (No we are not a union company). Even if the US economy was doing well, I'd still rather live in Japan as I am very comfortable there and eventually will retire there.

It's just that I hate where my country is headed and the road the elitist bankers are leading us down because they have found cheaper ways to produce goods in China and desire a One World Government. Sadly, many do not see it coming and believe what the mass media tells them as fact without doing any independent research and I hope to spread the truth to any who will listen, but it seems like a useless endeavor most days as most people refuse to believe it. But that's ok as a few are taking notice. However, I feel that when most people do wake up it will be too late.

If the automakers do not receive a bailout, the handwriting will be on the wall as about 3 million will be thrust into unemployment lines and America, as we know it, will die a slow death in the next two years.

[ArmandV]

Pach, ol' buddy, the problem with those items you posted is that while it's true manufacturing has been in a downward sprial for years, those workers who have been affected (before the current mess) went into something else through retraining and moving to other areas.

If they aren't showing up in the unemployment stats, what do you suppose they are doing? Sitting and collecting welfare? No, they are doing something else.

[tada]

Would be interesting to see how a poll posted now would differ from this one, as it's rather old (2004).

[Uchite]

No, I really don't want to be here and I wouldn't be if it weren't for my dog.

I love it! :D :bravo: :beer: :beer: :yeahh: :yeahh: :cool:

I can totally relate! :beer:

[powerman]

Hmm, I can't decide on that one... I'd have to pick both, because I'd want to go between them every year or so :P

[Pachipro]

Pach, ol' buddy, the problem with those items you posted is that while it's true manufacturing has been in a downward sprial for years, those workers who have been affected (before the current mess) went into something else through retraining and moving to other areas.

Maybe some have done some retraining, but the majority have found much lesser paying jobs or have just given up altogether and they are not included in the unemployment stats. Also, those whose benefits have run out are not included either. Therefore there are tens of thousands who are included.

Todays (November 20th) unemployment rate is the highest 4 week moving average in 25 years and now they are saying on the media that unemployment could reach 9 or 10% and some are even mentioning those that have not found new, similar employment and have given up. You watch, the true figures will eventually be let out and many will be shocked to find unemployment double what the government says it is.


If they aren't showing up in the unemployment stats, what do you suppose they are doing? Sitting and collecting welfare? No, they are doing something else.

Does, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Cheese or Pepperoni, sir?" or "Do you need odd jobs done?" sound familiar?

Let me give you an example. I recently hired a layed off union assembly line worker of 25 years with the Peterbuilt Corporation. (Peterbuilt manufactures big trucks). The company went on strike 6 months ago and the company locked them out and has not re-opened. His unemployment benefits ran out as well as his savings. Previously he was making more than $30/hr. He resurfaced my deck and stained it and did some needed painting around the house.

He is begging for "handyman" jobs at $12/hr and HE IS NO LONGER INCLUDED AS UNEMPLOYED and is not part of the statistic that the government puts out as he is "working off the books" so to speak and his benefits have run out! Therefore, he is not included any longer.

I believe there are tens of thousands like him and yes, some are living off of welfare as recent news in the Nashville/national area has reported on. It is bad and getting worse and the true statistics are not being reported for those that have given up and whse benefits have run out.

[ArmandV]

Pach, you don't need to tell me about being "underemployed." I am normally an insurance claims examiner and due to the economic mess, I am working as a security field supervisor. It was either that or starve.

Still, we haven't reached the Carter levels yet.

[Karuchan]

I don't want you to change your mind, but hard times are coming for everyone.

Japanese situation is not so much better than american or european one.

[uchimizu]

I do not know the whole of the US and Japan, but if I have to compare the places I experiences, Tokyo, Kyoto and Atlanta, I certainly would rather live in Japan. I believe some of the things I need as a european (old buildings, very good food, narrow streets) are more present in Japan. I feel Japan is a more creative place.

I found America a quite easy place to live in, and the people are very friendly and welcoming. Though I must say I may miss some "flavour" living in suburban America. Maybe my opinion would be different if I experienced downtown New York or San Francisco.

[hogdriver]

Hmm, I can't decide on that one... I'd have to pick both, because I'd want to go between them every year or so :P

Ditto dude.


HD

[JerseyBoy]

I found America a quite easy place to live in, and the people are very friendly and welcoming. Though I must say I may miss some "flavour" living in suburban America. Maybe my opinion would be different if I experienced downtown New York or San Francisco.
I used to live in both the small town and large metro area (NYC) for many years. The NYC metro region (which includes some parts of NJ and CT) has a totally different atmosphere compared to the country side. It's a tough work environment there; but, I find it more suitable to my characteristics and personalities there.

Two of the things I don't like are the road rages and lack of respect to the personal properties. I cannot remember how many times I flipped the finger each day back then. Also, I was so paranoid about getting a nice car as I was afraid some low-life parks his old beater next to me to leave a dent or scratch on my car. I had a garage; so, I avoided parking my personal car in the crowded parking area.

I am moving back my adopted home state NJ (about 5 miles from GWB) early next month. Good to be back where I belong.

Also, I have a condo here in Tokyo, which I am going to turn into a rental unit. So, I can keep building the equity in Tokyo. In an event I need to come back to Tokyo again, at least I can have a place of my own to live.

[hogdriver]

I ain't into difficult choices...I want BOTH!

[cohen avshalom]

i thinks i prefer to city area,better is the rural village area,will alote of space,for the personal using...


icarus5

[Yan]

If I would be able to find a job and to learn japanese, I'd rather like to live in Japan than in US. Actually I'd rather like to live everywhere except in US.

[cohen avshalom]

yan i thinks australia are the best...


icarus5

[Yan]

yan i thinks australia are the best...
icarus5

Your sentence is funny because I'm actually talking with an australian on MSN!

[cohen avshalom]

yan,to speak with some one from australia this is nice,to enter and live there,that is not so easy...lol

and thank you for answer me,not many did that for my last posting...again lol
icarus5

[zen777]

I always admired Japan for the beautiful places, and i also admired the U.S. becouse of the great casinos that can be found lol =))
If i have to choose i choose Japan;)

[Zulan Grey]

I prefer Japon. USA is not liked by me...
More correting life & more high culture :)

[-ShiroUsagi-]

If I would be able to find a job and to learn japanese, I'd rather like to live in Japan than in US. Actually I'd rather like to live everywhere except in US.

:p I totally agree with Yan on this one! If it was something like canada and japan, I would go for both lol ahaha but seeing its the US... no offence I dont think I would, anyway my opinion plus BC is practically beside Japan :-) Anyway I plan on visiting Japan and then perhaps working there.. I would enjoy the exotic experience lol.:win:

[Incognito69]

I've never lived in America, but I think some parts of America could be nice places for living. Some of my relatives have moved to Canada and life, so far, have been great for them.
But for me, I think I'd prefer Japan. I've lived there for a while and I think Japan is still an Asian country, not too much of a cultural shock for me (asian). Nonetheless, I'd really like to live in America for a while, just to try out the life in America.

[Thuglife]

After 7 years in Japan I'm about ready to head back to Hawaii.

Hawaii >Japan

[JerseyBoy]

After 7 years in Japan I'm about ready to head back to Hawaii.

Hawaii >Japan
Hawaii rules, man!. When I decide to invest in the vacation home, Hawaii would be my top choice. I really enjoyed my stay in O'ahu, Kauaʻi, and Big Island. The beaches were beautiful.

[kusojiji]

After 7 years in Japan I'm about ready to head back to Hawaii.



Didn't you just say in another thread that you've been there for 6 years? Which is it?

[JerseyBoy]

Didn't you just say in another thread that you've been there for 6 years? Which is it?
Possibly because the year just changed from 2008 to 2009?

[kusojiji]

That doesn't add another full year to the total amount.

[Echigo]

This is a tough question as there are things that I love/hate about both. I wish that I could combine all the good elements of the two countries and then live in the one that had the most to offer in the combination.

[Ukonkivi]

Best place in America: Washington.
Or as a continent, not meaning the US, Canada.

But I think I would appreciate Japan the most. It being so much harder to gain acceptance and appreciation of any kind would make me appreciate it more. Whereas in my own country I take it for granted.

Also, I doubt people over here are going to be any nicer to me for being a Japanophile.

[kusojiji]

Washington state, or D.C.?

[Thuglife]

Didn't you just say in another thread that you've been there for 6 years? Which is it?

I forgot it's 2009.

[Ukonkivi]

Washington state, or D.C.?
Washington state. For the temperate rainforests and Shinto shrines.

[gaijinalways]

I still find it odd that some people posting on this thread have lived in neither country. I'd find it diificult to comment on a place to live, especially one I'd never even visited. But I suppose people are entitled to different opinions, it's what makes life interesting.

That being said, I'm not sure which I'll pick for my retirement. Certainly if my wife were to pass away, I would probably leave Japan Since my employment opportunities here are much brighter at the moment, I won't be leaving any time soon.

[alexlovesrock]

thats easy the answer is japan. japan has better food! its expensive though, esp if u are paid in dollars... Us dollar is so weak now!!

[kusojiji]

I still find it odd that some people posting on this thread have lived in neither country.


Actually, that's kind of interesting to see what various preconceptions are out there.

[Echigo]

Maybe some have done some retraining, but the majority have found much lesser paying jobs or have just given up altogether and they are not included in the unemployment stats. Also, those whose benefits have run out are not included either. Therefore there are tens of thousands who are included.

Todays (November 20th) unemployment rate is the highest 4 week moving average in 25 years and now they are saying on the media that unemployment could reach 9 or 10% and some are even mentioning those that have not found new, similar employment and have given up. You watch, the true figures will eventually be let out and many will be shocked to find unemployment double what the government says it is.


Does, "Would you like fries with that?" or "Cheese or Pepperoni, sir?" or "Do you need odd jobs done?" sound familiar?

Let me give you an example. I recently hired a layed off union assembly line worker of 25 years with the Peterbuilt Corporation. (Peterbuilt manufactures big trucks). The company went on strike 6 months ago and the company locked them out and has not re-opened. His unemployment benefits ran out as well as his savings. Previously he was making more than $30/hr. He resurfaced my deck and stained it and did some needed painting around the house.

He is begging for "handyman" jobs at $12/hr and HE IS NO LONGER INCLUDED AS UNEMPLOYED and is not part of the statistic that the government puts out as he is "working off the books" so to speak and his benefits have run out! Therefore, he is not included any longer.

I believe there are tens of thousands like him and yes, some are living off of welfare as recent news in the Nashville/national area has reported on. It is bad and getting worse and the true statistics are not being reported for those that have given up and whse benefits have run out.

I've heard plenty of sad stories like this from the US where workers get the sack with little if any severance or assistance. This is the ultimate outcome though when a country decides to go from a manufacturing to a "service" economy though. Seems that $30/hr isn't really so much either and seems reasonable for that sort of work. When someone in China is making less than $10 per day to do the same work though, the corporations get greedy and move production abroad. They rarely if ever pass those savings along to the end customer though.

My heart goes out to the poor guy trying to make it as a handyman now. Beats working in fast food though I guess.

[gaijinalways]

Unfortunately, it's not just the US, it's also happening in Japan. All those workers being let go at Toyota, Nissan, and Honda are taking home big severance packages. Instead it's more like hello to 'Hello work'.