Tokyo or Bust!

[TimF]

I have been thinking about moving to Tokyo, Japan but the problem is I dont know alot about the laws and customs there I heard 250,000yen+ was a good paying job but I have no idea what that means the reason I want to go there is because I want to "live" it is a deep emotional thing and I like everthing that comes out of Japan. So if anyone can help me on anything about Japan i would appreaciate it alot. Thanks.

[Mandylion]

Hello TimF and welcome to JREF :-)

To start what skills do you have? The Immigration Office is going to be very interested in what kind of eduction you have. Your profile says you are 18 and want to move to Japan, but if you have a four year college degree, it will be much easier to get a visa and find a job. The market here is pretty tight, so unless you sign up with a organization that doesn't require a college degree, the better educated you can be the better.

In college you can study even more about Japan and open up many more doors (exchange student) and get access to more resources for your trip. Then, if you decide you don't want to go to Japan, you have a college degree to help you find a good job. I know 4 years seems like a long time, but college can be some of the best years of your life. If you don't like it, you can always quit and be no worse off than before.

Also, if you haven't studied Japanese, I would put that at the top of the list.

Also come to Japan as a tourist or, better yet, an exchange student first. Spend some time in Japan before you get your hopes set on moving. There is a lot to love about Japan (as you seem to know) but there is also things that make this very much less than a Utopia. You will either confirm that you want to make a life here, or have a chance to pull out if you decide this is not for you.

You dream is possible and you can make it come true. But give yourself time to learn and think about what you want to do - and never give up!

[Buddha Smoker]

Hi Tim and welcome.

I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish in coming to Japan. It's not easy at first sometimes but then again once you get settled down then you might never leave. After all, that was about 10 years ago for me :D

[ferrariboy]

250,000yen+? You gotta be kidding me! You wouldn't survive on that... especially if you're thinking of the Kanto region and Tokyo... but I can sympathize why you wanna be there. It's a nice place to be, but beware, the stress of working there is unlike anything you will experience. They don't have the highest suicide rates in the world for nothing.

[Buddha Smoker]

250,000yen+? You gotta be kidding me! You wouldn't survive on that... especially if you're thinking of the Kanto region and Tokyo... but I can sympathize why you wanna be there. It's a nice place to be, but beware, the stress of working there is unlike anything you will experience. They don't have the highest suicide rates in the world for nothing.

Well, you could for a month or two but it would be a hard life. :relief:

[Ewok85]

I survived on 7000 a week. Its not hard, you just need to adjust your life accordingly.

[den4]

Mandylion's suggestion is a good way to start off with. Also, if you have the opportunity to live in the Tokyo area, perhaps as an exchange student, you will have a "clearer" view of things than from a tourist's vision....but working in Tokyo is far from pleasant. Unless you enjoy crowds.
The summers are hot, the winters can be cold (no central heating). 250,000 yen is pretty low, but manageable, if you don't mind avoiding most luxury things, like going out drinking, watching movies in theaters, living in the Tokyo area (most likely you'll be living out in the suburbs of Kawasaki, Yokohama, Chiba or some other outskirt area....with an hour's commute to whatever jobsite you're planning to work for (unless you get lucky). Without a 4 year degree, most places will not accept you, but the job visas have gotten easier to get than when I was there....
But, regardless of how much advice you read about here, the best solution is to get yourself over there and see it for yourself. Every person's view of Tokyo is different. Some love it...some hate it....some are indifferent...you'll need to make your own observations....but understand that whatever you do in Japan, it will cost money.... :D

[TimF]

What would be a good wage for me to live comfortably? And how much is rent inTokyo?

[Buddha Smoker]

What would be a good wage for me to live comfortably? And how much is rent inTokyo?

I always say about $3000 dollars or 30,0000 yen is a basic start but comfortably would be a thousand or more on top of that.

Rent really varies but it gets higher the closer to the middle of Tokyo you get.

[TimF]

What would be a decent paying job? (enough for anyone to live comfortably with not finanical worries) Also when someone says a number like 300,000yen is that a month or a year because I am confused about the curency all I know 1 Dollar equals almost 108 yen? What is the best part of Tokyo for me to live in? Sorry for all of the questions but this is stuff I have just been wondering about for along time.Thanks.

[Elizabeth]

おそらく仕事がないと思います。
家賃も食べ物も、アメリカよりずっと高いです。
本当に大変です。お勧めできません。


Until you can understand these and without a university degree or having any connections, I'm sorry to say along with everyone else there is virtually no chance of being able to find a job of any kind, much less a comfortable one.

[TimF]

おそらく仕事がないと思います。
家賃も食べ物も、アメリカよりずっと高いです。
本当に大変です。お勧めできません。


Until you can understand these and without a university degree or having any connections, I'm sorry to say along with everyone else there is virtually no chance of being able to find a job of any kind, much less a comfortable one.

Well I do not plan on moving over there tomorrow I just want some background info first so that I have a better understanding of what I am up against.

[den4]

Ah, but Elizabeth is right...most companies won't give you the time of day unless you have a college degree, and they won't accept you unless you have some measure of understanding nihongo. Best start learning it, with the understanding that you won't truly know how good you understand it until you start living there... :D

[Arc Light]

Suggestion: hit up your local (genuine and authentic) Sushi Bistro, become a regular, (It helps to wear a t-shirt that says "I'm looking for a Japanese girlfriend" in Kanji) and get to know everyone there. That way, when you're ready to go to Japan, they'll set you up with their family!

at least it's working for me... :D

[jaxfu]

Suggestion: hit up your local (genuine and authentic) Sushi Bistro, become a regular, (It helps to wear a t-shirt that says "I'm looking for a Japanese girlfriend" in Kanji) and get to know everyone there. That way, when you're ready to go to Japan, they'll set you up with their family!

at least it's working for me... :D


Tell me, what do Japanese people really think of gaijin wearing those kinds of shirts? Sure, maybe at a party, but I would be embarrassed to wear one in public. Or do I just have no sence of humor?

[budd]

some like it and some [most] don't get the joke and think it's for real.
pretty much applies to any of the [japn lang] shirts on that site [imo].
if the japanese person is living in america (or abroad), they probably will just laugh...
but one or two guys (in japan) will get real upset and want to fight
hope that was enough info

[jaxfu]

some like it and some [most] don't get the joke and think it's for real.
pretty much applies to any of the [japn lang] shirts on that site [imo].
if the japanese person is living in america (or abroad), they probably will just laugh...
but one or two guys (in japan) will get real upset and want to fight
hope that was enough info

Fight? Wow, not good. I suppose there are certain groups (rednecks) in the US who would not like it if you wore a shirt that said "Looking for [ethnic group] girl/boy friend.

Are english expression shirts common? - I saw in an anime a girl wearing a t-shirt that said "for girls" and some other chars wearing shirts with odd letter combos on them. Of course that is anime and not real life.

I think I will get a friend of mine the "looking for japanese boyfriend" shirt. Of course I won稚 tell him it says that :-)

[Elizabeth]

Suggestion: hit up your local (genuine and authentic) Sushi Bistro, become a regular, (It helps to wear a t-shirt that says "I'm looking for a Japanese girlfriend" in Kanji) and get to know everyone there. That way, when you're ready to go to Japan, they'll set you up with their family!

at least it's working for me... :D
What does it say exactly ? Unless it's something really crude like 恋人募集中' I don't necessarily see the harm.... :cool:

[den4]

or something from the www.engrish.com site :D

[Buddha Smoker]

I'm not sure I would wear a shirt like that either.

[Arc Light]

Actually, I rarely wear that shirt. It's now a conversation peice at the restaurant, and when I wear it (which is by request), the new Japanese customers really get a kick out of it, and it helps to break the ice and eliminate shyness. (There's a Japanese-owned synthetic paper plant, YUPO, nearby)

And translated it means "Now accepting applications for Japanese girlfriends." But that's what I've read...I can't read it.

The attached image is what's on the shirt. Check out www.jlist.com

[Buddha Smoker]

Actually, I rarely wear that shirt. It's now a conversation peice at the restaurant, and when I wear it (which is by request), the new Japanese customers really get a kick out of it, and it helps to break the ice and eliminate shyness. (There's a Japanese-owned synthetic paper plant, YUPO, nearby)

And translated it means "Now accepting applications for Japanese girlfriends." But that's what I've read...I can't read it.

The attached image is what's on the shirt. Check out www.jlist.com

That's pretty funny but I still wouldn't wear it though. :D

[jaxfu]

Tim F:

I think it has been stated already, but one can not simply go live in Japan and be able to work without the proper level of education required by law. It is not like the US where one can simply arive and become self supporting rather easily if you have a skill or are willing to do manual labor. (are there many undocumented workers in Japan? In the US it is huge)

You should visit first. Try and save up about $3,000 and go for a week or two and do some traveling around. You will not have the stress of worring about work and will be able to meet and interact with many people and be able to go home and reflect on your visit while in school.

[DoctorP]

Tim F:

I think it has been stated already, but one can not simply go live in Japan and be able to work without the proper level of education required by law. It is not like the US where one can simply arive and become self supporting rather easily if you have a skill or are willing to do manual labor. (are there many undocumented workers in Japan? In the US it is huge)


Most of the undocumented workers are from Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc...and work on farms. Very menial labor and they don't pay well at all. The people working there get room and board and usually send whatever money they make back home to their families. I don't think that as an American you would want to live/work like that. It is no way to see Japan! My mother-in-law made friends with one Thai lady who used to work like that then took her into her home. She lived with her for about 4 years before the lady was deported.

TimF Best bet is like the others said, come over as an exchange student or finish your degree first. Even most of the construction workers here have formal schooling. Not like the states where if you have a strong back you can walk on a site and get a job! :-) In Japan everyone doesn't necessarily have a degree, but after junior high school if they attend high school, it is to learn a particular trade, not just general curriculum.

[Buddha Smoker]

Yeah, I would recommend a visit first, especially if you haven't been. Sometimes people get obsessed with Japan then get disappointed after they get here or have a hard time if they weren't prepared.

[Arc Light]

That's pretty funny but I still wouldn't wear it though. :D
As a disclaimer, I didn't buy that shirt...I probably never would have, even if I had known it existed. My bro-in-law got it for me for Christmas after I had made the comment (jokingly) about making a shirt that said that and wearing it to a Japanese restaurant. Needless to say, I was held to that. And no way would I wear it in Japan! :box:

Anyway, back on topic, while it is true that you can't just go to Japan and get a job working at the local McDonald's, there are one or two ways to go there without having to get Visas, passports, and whatnot. One option is to go to work for the US government as a Federal Employee, working on military equipment. Raytheon, Bell Tech, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, they all send people over there. But...education is required. Another option, and this is just being mentioned in passing, is to join the military. I know of quite a few Marines who got out (discharged) and stayed in Japan, and as far as I know, they're still there. All 4 branches of the US Military have bases there. But in any case, finish your education...Japan isn't going anywhere anytime soon...it will be there when you're ready.

And Jaxfu's suggestion is exactly what I'm planing...save up about $3000 or so, and visit Japan as a tourist. That's the way to go for a first time or 2nd time visitor. Moving there to work requires quite a commitment, and involves alot more than just $3000. That's why I recommended getting to know Japanese people who live close to you. Ask them about life in Japan, without being annoying, and show a genuine interest. Learn the language, the customs and courtesies, and one of them may help you in your quest. In my case, I have lodging taken care of when I go to visit.

Also, get in touch with the Japanese Embassy in your country. They can provide you will valuable information, resources, and travel tools. They can also be one of the most useful resources for help in either visiting or relocating to Japan.

[TimF]

I will go to Tokyo on a visit then. Does anyone know where I can get a good deal on a trip? Where to stay? Or anything like that. What would be the worst time to go because I want to see Tokyo at its worst! So can anyone give me all of the info about this kind of thing. If you can I would appreaciate it. Thanks.

[Knives]

expedia.com usually has good rates or try goin to the airport and try to get a seat for really cheap never hurts to try eh?

[Mandylion]

TimF - Tokyo at its worst will be Tokyo at its most expensive, summer vacation. I think that would be the worst because everyone would be free, everything would be packed, and the summer temperatures would be very hot.

Do you have your heart set on Tokyo? What about other big cities like Kobe, Sapporo, or Osaka?

Lastly, when people are giving you figures of 300,000 (about 2,777 USD) that is for a month. Figures of 3,000,000 and the like would be for a year. However, you still have to think about taxes. 250,000 a month for a job you have no training in (most English conversation teachers in Japan have no formal training) is a really good deal. We don't pay starting teachers in the US that much, and they have been through years and years of school...

Don't come to Japan with a lot of debt, don't paint the town red everynight, learn how to budget and you will get by just fine.

[Elizabeth]

This is some information I received from a friend a while back on average starting salaries (for the entire country?, his company?). Around 2,400,000 Yen for a year after taxes and insurance. He's saying that it may not be too comfortable in Tokyo but if you can get to a more rural area, rents become much cheaper.


新しく社会人なった人の平均月収が２０万円位、ボーナスで年４０万円位
として年収２８０万円。税金や健康保険を引くと手取りで２４０万円位です。
気持ちがいいというのが、どの程度かわかりませんが、とりあえずこの位あれば
なんとかやっていけるのではないでしょうか？
地方へいけば、家賃はぐっと安くなると思います。

[budd]

while at womb, this drunk guy kept running up to me and saying various things, like "awww man! why you wanna wear that shirt?!" and "why you say that?!"
"Somebody is gonna want to fight you blah bla blah"
he was wearing a shirt that said "Get L__d" in the same font and design of Gatorade...
he came running up later that night and said "hey, both me and you got shirts that mean the same thing!" :(

[jaxfu]

while at womb, this drunk guy kept running up to me and saying various things, like "awww man! why you wanna wear that shirt?!" and "why you say that?!"
"Somebody is gonna want to fight you blah bla blah"
he was wearing a shirt that said "Get L__d" in the same font and design of Gatorade...
he came running up later that night and said "hey, both me and you got shirts that mean the same thing!" :(

budd, you meet interesting people. I to hope to get drunk in Japan. :beer:

[den4]

TimF: Best part of Tokyo? I don't think you want to live in Tokyo, at least until you know more about the surrounding area and make sure you can afford to do so :D Unless things have changed, and things change slowly in Japan for things like rules, etc., expect to put out at least 6 months worth of rent money up front, 4 of which ain't coming back, and the other two is iffy at best. Any apartment (apaato) or condo (mansion) you find near the train stations will also be more expensive....get a bike and/or walk at least a good 15-30 minutes from the train station and you may find decent prices, but the 6 month downpayment will still apply...the breakdown is this: 2 months for first and last month's rent payment, 2 months of "gift money" to the landlord (non-negotiable) and 2 months of deposit for cleaning up and damages (non-negotiable, but if you're lucky, you may get some of this back. key point is to make a check list when you move in and make sure the landlord is aware of any damages that he can't charge you for later. May want to make sure the real estate agent that shows you the apartment/condo also knows about it, as a back up witness.)

If you encounter a landlord that doesn't rent out to gaijin (foreigner) then just say thank you and don't make a big scene out of it. Japan has no real law against discrimination against foreigners as such, but the rules are slowly changing. The key factor is this: if you make a scene and complain, then that offers the landlord adequate excuse for not wanting to rent to a foreigner because you are being troublesome. If you are cool and calm, then they can't pin anything against you. Just a friendly bit of advice...as they say in Japan: the nail that sticks out will get pounded down...

salaries are paid only on a monthly basis in most companies in Japan. usually around the 25th...which means you have to budget for an entire month with whatever salary you get...if you overspend, you are up the proverbial creek with no paddles....

how much is enough to live comfortably? that is dependent upon how much you spend on average per month. If you are thrifty, cook for yourself, don't splurge on electronic gadgetry and hi-tech stuff, willing to live conservatively and not over extend yourself, 300,000 is plenty per month....assuming your apartment doesn't cost that much per month.... :D

Learn Japanese but don't depend upon the school based knowledge only....spoken language is much different from text book stuff, and each prefecture has its own dialect...also, if you do get a girlfriend in Japan, have her make sure that she also teaches you the difference between the masculine and feminine usages, or you'll sound like you're gay... :D

and most important of all, you must acknowledge that I know nothing...because I'm the forum's resident Know-it-Nothing....failure to comply will result in no further answering of any future questions :D

den4

I know you know more than I do.... :D

[w1ngzer0]

wow, that website was awsome. The prices aren't bad eather :)

[jaxfu]

Sounds like it would be good to get a roommate to split the living costs with like many do in the US.

[den4]

Be best to make sure your landlord is aware of the fact that that is what you are going to do, then....to avoid problems in the future... :)

[Ishiguro San]

What if you don't have a college degree? A few of us are interested in moving to Japan to get into a film career. Of course, we will visit first before any plans are made. None of us have been to college or are interested in doing so. We are starting to take classes on the japanese language.