れって / が / せっかく / だけ

[eeky]

Hi,


1. それって、自分のやってることを客観的に見られるって ことじゃない？

My translation: "Can't you look objectively at the things you have done?"

Is それって = それ + って (quoting)? If so, does it mean something like "Speaking of that, ..." or "Regarding that, ..."?


2. 最初は何とも思ってなかったことが、気がついてみたら 、いつのまにか生きがいになってるなんてことさ、よく あるしさ。

My translation: "First, if you try to be aware of all these things you've never thought about, before you know it, there will be (i.e. you will find) lots of things that create a purpose in life."

a) What is the role of が in 思ってなかったことが, and how does it link grammatically to what follows?

b) Does 思ってなかったこと have much of a definite past-tense sense, or is it more or less the same as 思ってないこと? I know that sometimes there is little difference when verbs are modifiers, but I don't know how to tell these cases.


3. まっ、それにさ、せっかく会社やめたんだからさ、この 機会に自分の興味のあること、いろいろためしてみたら ？

My translation: "Also, since you've resigned from your job, why not take this opportunity to try out various things that interest you?"

Does せっかく refer to the fact that the job at the company was hard-won? Or does it mean that the decision to resign was a difficult and lengthy one?


4. 本人と一度話したほうがいいよ。それでも無視し続ける ならしばらくの間だけだと思ってがまんするしかないね 。

My translation: "You should try talking to the person in question sometime. If he still continues to ignore you then you have no choice but to be patient, even if it seems to be taking a long time."

Assuming this is basically correct, what is the purpose of だけ?

[Toritoribe]

1)
Yes, それって is それ + って (quoting).

〜って/というのは、･･･ってこと/ということだ is a structure, meaning "~ means/shows ...".

2)
The first が idicates the subject of （生きがいに）なってる. The core of the sentence is 「〜ことが･･･になる/なってること」（は）よくある（ことだ）.

3)
せっかくis an adverb modifying やめた. Thus, it can't refer to "the job at the company was hard-won".

せっかく会社やめたんだから
since you've resigned from your job with considerable effort,

4)
I don't know the context exactly, but does それでも無視し続けるなら、（無視されるのは/彼と会うのは）しばらくの間だけだと思ってがまんする しかないね make sense?

[Glenn]

Man, I seem to have totally gotten the subject of 無視し続ける wrong. I thought it was the listener, not a third person.

[eeky]

Thanks.

1. So, the speaker is suggesting that a previous statement/fact indicates that the addressee can look at his (= the addressee's) achievements objectively -- is that correct?

4. There is no more context to this, except that it is an example of sentence patterns that can be used to offer help or advice, in this case それでも~なら~ しかない.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are getting at with your suggestion （無視されるのは/彼と会うのは）. My guess is/was that しばらくの間 refers to the length of time that 無視し続ける continues, but I am now confused about whether しばらくの間 means a long time, a short time, or something like "for now" or "for the time being". Maybe I have that part wrong.

Could the whole thing mean: "You should try talking to the person in question sometime. If he still continues to ignore you then you have no choice but to be patient, if only for the time being." だけ = "only" in my translation, with the implication that the addressee will not have to be patient for ever?

[Toritoribe]

1)
The sentence structure is correct, but 自分のやってること seems to mean simply "what you're doing" to me.

2)
So, what is your translation? My previous answer suggests you misinterprited it.

4)
I thought the sentence was a part of the story about 足立 and 石口.

Yes, your interpritations about しばらくの間 and だけ are correct.

[eeky]

1)
The sentence structure is correct, but 自分のやってること seems to mean simply "what you're doing" to me.

Oh yes, for some unaccountable reason I was reading it as past tense (things done in the past).

2)
So, what is your translation? My previous answer suggests you misinterprited it.

Oh, is my original translation of this sentence significantly wrong? I guess, following the sentence more literally, I would say "First, there are many things that you haven't thought about that will, if you try to be aware of them, before you know it, become your purpose in life." Is that OK?

[Toritoribe]

最初は modifies 思ってなかった.
What does 何とも思ってなかった maen?
You seem to be confusing 気がつく with 気をつける.

[Glenn]

最初は何とも思ってなかったことが、気がついてみたら 、いつのまにか生きがいになってるなんてことさ、よく あるしさ。

No. 何とも思わない doesn't mean "not think about", and 気がついてみたら doesn't mean "if/when you try to be aware of". This isn't the ～てみる that gets taught, it's the one that doesn't (in my experience).

12 （補助動詞）動詞の連用形に「て」を添えた形に付く。
②「てみると」「てみたら」「てみれば」などの形で、その結果、ある事実に気づいたり、その条件・立場が認 められたりすることを表す。「踏みこんでみるともぬけのからだった」「親としてみれば、そう言わざるをえな い」
12 (Auxiliary verb) Attaches to the -te form of verbs.
2) In the form of "te miru to", "te mitara", "te mireba", etc., it expresses that one realizes some result or fact, or that a condition or standing/position has been recognized. "When we stepped in we found it to be empty." "It must be said so, as a parent."
見る

I've got to admit, though, that I don't totally understand it and I don't have the most confidence in my translations of the definition and example sentences as a result.

Here's the 和英 entry for it:

10 〔「…してみると」の形で〕
気が付いてみると皆が私を見ていた
When I 「came to [recovered consciousness] I found everyone (was) looking at me.
なぐられた方にしてみると腹が立っただろう
If you put yourself in his place, you will see how angry he was when you struck him.
見る　和英

There doesn't seem to be anything explicitly stating what it means there, and there's certainly no corollary in English, so it's always been fuzzy for me. Maybe that's also why it doesn't get taught.

[Toritoribe]

Yeah, this 〜てみたら is more close to just 〜たら, meaning "when (actually) did, then...", and not a conditional one "if".

Your translation of the definition in the dictionary is correct, as always.

[eeky]

Then I am defeated by sentence (2). Can anyone tell me what the whole thing means?

[Glenn]

If you think of 気がついてみたら as more like 気がついたら it should help that part. And the other part, perhaps it would be better to think of 何とも思わない like 何ともない. You know that one, right?

Your translation of the definition in the dictionary is correct, as always.

Why, thanks! I'm glad to know that. It makes me feel better

[eeky]

With this sentence I am beyond the stage where further clues will help.

[Glenn]

最初は何とも思ってなかったことが、気がついてみたら 、いつのまにか生きがいになってるなんてことさ、よく あるしさ。
It often turns out that things you thought were nothing at the beginning at some point end up becoming your reason for living.

[Mikawa Ossan]

The only thing I would add is that さ、よく あるしさ at the end makes it very conversational in tone. In terms of meaning, you can ignore both さ without changing anything. You can ignore the し without much loss of meaning as well.

[Elizabeth]

最初は何とも思ってなかったことが、気がついてみたら 、いつのまにか生きがいになってるなんてことさ、よく あるしさ。
It often turns out that things you thought were nothing at the beginning at some point end up becoming your reason for living.

The first part could also be translated I think as"thought nothing of" which sort of implies casual acceptance or taking for granted than "thought were nothing" which is more like active disregard but that depends also of course on an actual context necessary to judge the speaker's intent precisely.

[Toritoribe]

2. 最初は何とも思ってなかったことが、気がついてみたら 、いつのまにか生きがいになってるなんてことさ、よく あるしさ。

This し shows that the sentence expresses a reason, as same as 〜から.

生きがいになってるなんてことはよくあるから、、、 (Something obvious from the context is suggested.)

３ （終助詞的に用いて）一つの事実・条件を言いさし、結 論を言外に暗示する意を表す。「旅行はしたいけれども 、暇はない―」「せっかく出場させてもエラーはする―」

し - goo辞書

[eeky]

Belated thanks to everyone ... I get it now!