Where does Japanese History Begin!

[Kjeld]

To get back to the original question, recent research has show there were several inflows of people into Japan. Some of these overlapped, some of them were repeated many many centuries later.

At a time when Indonesia was still connected to the rest of Asia, there was a large inflow of people from there. Most of them arrived via a sea route. Other inflows came through what is now Korea, and North-East Asia. There was actually a time when what has turned into the northern island of Hokkaido was connected with the mainland of Asia. A similar landbridge existed between Asia and the Americas. This allowed peoples to cross into the Americas and eventually move to the most southern tip.

After sealevels rose millions of islands were created, seperating people and thereby allowing them to develop cultures independent of each other. So where do you start Japanese history? If you go back far enough we all come from the orginal Eve somewhere in Africa. This is a history we all share, whether we are aware of it or not.

I guess Japanese 'history' started when the people here began developing cultures sufficiently different from the ones they originated from. When exactly this happened is still an ongoing quest for scientists. In the past few years there have been many surprising finds in Kyushu where a flourishing culture developed at an earlier stage than was believed possible. Unfortunately 20th century development has destroyed most of the escavating sites, and even now only a few are protected for the future.

For more information, check out these links:

Revolution of Ancient History -- http://www.furutasigaku.jp/
The Furuta Historical Science Association considers many Japanese history text books "dishonest". It publishes research papers like The Self-Evident Truth About the Jomon Stones.

Ancient Japan -- http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ANCJAPAN/CONTENTS.HTM
Also mentioned by Mindy in an earlier posting in this thread. From Richard Hooker's World Civilizations series. Amazingly comprehensive site covering Japan from prehistory to 1192. Don't miss this one!

From Hunters to Rice Growers ﾑ Jomon Period -- http://www-history/pre-agri.html
Discusses the life of the Jomon people with graphics of and links to artifacts, with a focus on the diet, hunthing methods, agriculture, and cooking methods.

Early Jomon Hamlet Found -- http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news21.htm
The Japan Times reports on the discoveries of Jomon culture artifacts on the island of Kyushu.

Japan Guide: Early Japan, until 710 -- http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2131.html
Introduces the Jomon, Yayoi, and Yamato cultures of Japan. (aka Schauwecker's Guide to Japan).

Oya Skeleton May be Jomon Period's Oldest -- http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news79.htm
The Japan Times reports discovery of a Jomon skeleton that carbon dating indicates may be as the oldest from the Jomon period.

[thomas]

Thanks for the comprehensive input, Kjeld. Interesting links, I think I'll add some of them to our directory.

[Kjeld]

You're welcome, Thomas.

I often worry I am way too serious for the forum. In Japanese this is called 'shokugyou-byou'. It literally translates as 'occupational disorder', a bad habit induced by ones work. As a journalist I automatically tend to dig for facts. Hopefully some people find this input helpful and interesting.

[thomas]

Hehe, too serious, Kjeld? Not at all.

Facts about Japan, just keep them coming. We are very grateful for quality input such as yours. So your efforts are highly appreciated.

[Kjeld]

Thanks, Thomas.

[shintemaster]

Just on an aside... As far as I understand it Japan only stopped having an Empress after Americans involved in constitutional lego work decided that the Meiji constitutions strictures on this regard ought to be upheld. Quite surprising for such an unpaternal country as America...

[moyashi]

Hi Kjeld,

You too serious? ahh, I thought I was the one with [forum-byo] (byo = sickness)

Let's add a bit to what Kjeld researched for us. Make things a bit more interesting.

There's a legend of the Turtle boy (lol ... I let Thomas do the leg work again dam I'm lazy and forgetful ain't I?) Where a turtle saves a fisherman and takes him to an underwater palace. On returning to Japan, he ends up like thw Western Rip Van Wrinkle; all his friends are dead since he had been gone for so long.

Now, a TV show figured it out that he ended up in part of that Indonesia area that Kjeld mentioned where durng the last ice age, Humaniods retreated. After which, the sea levels rose submerging the area. Apparently stone arches and what remain. During the show, I was thinking Atlantis. I can't remember where I saw it but some news paper I think mentioned that Atlantis might've been in the Indonesia area too.


Interesting shintemaster,
But I think thigns are gonna get interesting in that regard since the the Crown Prince's baby is a girl. The news is still saying that Masako-san is still young enough to try again. The news, also, has brought up many times about the chance of having an Empress if things don't change.

If anything I think that since the Meiji period the movement of the Emperor has quieted down quite a bit. Before emprors would come and go in a few years now they seem more like Kings than men wanting to retire into the mountains and become monks.

hmmm ... I wonder if Aiko's future husband will become Emperor?

[shintemaster]

Yep that should be funny stuff. Here's hoping that they do some creative editing along the lines of the SDF and we can end up with an Empress. Would be VERY interesting as far as concepts of Japan as strongly patriarchal.

[Maciamo]

@when does Japanese history begins

History starts with the writing. Before the writing it is called pre-history. The writing came to Japan from China in the 3rd century. We do have some information about Japan before this through Chinese texts, but Japan was first mentioned in the 1st century AD as the land of Wa. Of course, there were people and maybe kingdoms in Japan long before that, but as no documents exist about them, it is considered as prehistory (a period called "Jomon). Anyway, the arrival of the kanji, coincide approximately with with the unification of Japan (Yamato) around 350, then the import of Buddhism (6th century) with the founding of the first permanent capital, Nara, in 710.

Just a rectification, Jimmu, the mythical first emperor of Japan, reigned from 660 BC, not AD.

@ainu

The pronouciation is neither -new, no really -noo in Japanese. It sounds more like a French "u", like in "deja-vu", but anyway native English speakers can't normally get it right. This "u" also exist in Dutch, German (written with the umlauf that I don't have on my Japanese keyboard and Scandinavic languages. In Oxfordshire, people tend to pronounce the English "oo" and "u" sounds (like in "food" or "new", "pure" and "you") like this "u". Japanese doesn't make the difference between them in writing, but it would be weird to confuse them while speaking. You find the "oo" sound (like in food/too/wood) in words that usually have a two "u" in romaji : koutsuu, taifuu... Most are "on" reading. The others (kun reading and single "u") are pronouce like a French "u" : suru, taberu, muzumuzu, Shinjuku-ku... This includes "ainu".

Japanese can't claim the Ainu because then that would mean ALL their textbooks and history were falsified. It would probably mean having to re-write their legends too. Besides, the Ainu are too hairy for the general Japanese populace.

Why ? Ainu used to lived in Northern Honshu before to be pushed into Hokkaido, while the Japanese (I consider the Ainu as non-Japanese culturally/ethincally) lived in the rest of Japan. There is no conflict. The North of Japan was simply not Japan but the land of the ainus. Americans don't claim having lived in the US for millenia, so why should Japanese claim Northern Japan as historically the same country ? The annexed it and the outnumbered Ainu were either killed or assimilated, exactly like American Indian with Europeans.


@origin of the Japanese people

I have started a new thread on this subject that ought to be further developed.

[moyashi]

hmm ... reread through that part dealing with "u".

I used "eye new" since I speak an American Accent similar to the one you hear on CNN. You might even think of it as "I knew".

I wonder if I'm using the Hokkaido accent here and thereby saying it the way they say it themselves. I have been to Ainu toursit traps and have met Ainu before .... I wonder how the NHK pronuciation would go. Probably like the way maciamo explained it.

@ falisification of history
The Ainu aren't normally recognized as an indigenous people though. The current day Japanese being a part of the Yamato group came later themselves too. While the Jomon Japanese seem to be slightly different from the Ainu and Yamato.

Also, If you read the Meiji Constitution it clearly states that the Japanese comes from 1 straight blood line family. Which is not really true. Many clans placed their grandchildren in place if a boy didn't exist to acceed to the throne so to say.

So, it's like a collective forgetfulness at times in Japan. Many Japanese really don't know at times, either.

It's easy for the foreign to look at the Ainu and say that they are indiginous but the Japanese don't seem to see it that way.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by moyashi

I go through monthly spasm where I have to hear that Japanese intestines are longer than Americans or Eskimos! It's conveniently forgotten that most of Asian is ALSO on a rice diet.

Is this true? If so I'm gonna have a gas whenever the intestine story comes up again

Quite possibly, and with bigger, and longer appendix, too which is supposed to produce cellulose-digesting cellulase. Except the Mongols on horseback. My Mongolian prof. told me that vegetarianism is best avoided for a Mongol as it might cause excessive diarrhea. Therefore they might have relatively short intenstines instead having adapted to long term meat consumption.