What is a valid reason not to hunt whales for meat?

[PaulTB]

I'd like to try something a little different. This is NOT about whether you think hunting whales for food is justified or not. This is about which reason for not hunting whales you think is most important and most accurate. e.g. Even if you think whale hunting should occur pick the reason which comes closest to convincing you.

Because whale hunting is cruel and causes excessive suffering
While the following link isn't exactly from a neutral site, most developed countries have regulations in place (and enforced to a greater or lesser extent) to reduce suffering in animals slaughtered for food.
http://www.wdcs.org/dan/publishing.n...256D1F00282A09
Of course whales aren't the only exception. Kosher meat is another hot topic due to this concern.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm
Because whale meat is not healthy to eat
Dangerously high levels of mercury contamination have been very widely found in whale meat.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-mip051903.php
Because whales are cute / beautiful
http://www.sapphirecoast.com.au/whales/default.htm
Because whales are endangered
The population levels of whale species, and what constitutes as 'safe' level are fiercely disputed.
http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm
Note that whales aren't unique in this area, other more endangered species are also eaten - see bush meat.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9812...rica.bushmeat/
One big difference is that the majority of whaling is done by developed countries.
Because whales are intelligent
Intelligence is a tricky one to measure. I, for one, would have little difficulty in saying "earthworm = unintelligent, dolphin = intelligent" but is a blue whale more intelligent than a pig? Should we not be eating pigs because they are intelligent?
http://www.highnorth.no/Library/Myths/br-be-an.htm
Because of something else (please state)

[Sinspawne]

Many species of whale are very endangered.
and i'm sure that if 1 species goes extinct, it would make a hole in the eco system. thus dragging a whole bunch of others with it

[bossel]

Voted for "endangered". But "cruelty" & rather high "intelligence" would count for me as well.

[TwistedMac]

i'm gonna go with endangered... since it's the only one i'd give a **** about..

(i actually made those *'s myself to start off with.. no profanity here, no-sir-ee)

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by TwistedMac

i'm gonna go with endangered... since it's the only one i'd give a **** about..

Well then. See if the Intergalactic Whale Federation let YOU off the planet any time soon!

[TwistedMac]

... you didn't put "to get friendly with the IWF so they'll let you off the planet" up there!

[Sinspawne]

*Warning! very off topic* *and it's just something i remembered*

While i was in the coastguard, I saw a video of some "anti whale hunting" group trying to stop a whale hunt ship by any means.
(it was filmed seperatily onboard both coastguard ship and the anti hunt ship, then edited together)

The coast guard fired a warning shot.

Anti whale hunt ship doesent stop.

Coastguard deploys a water-jet boat, and it drops sound charges in the
water as a further warning.

Anti whale-hunt ship yells over the radio (open channel) that the norwegian coastguard is trying to blow up their ship with explocives, and that they are taking in water!

Coastguard tries to stop them once more by dragging a rope in front of them, to entangle the propellor.

(here it gets idiotic) they avoid the rope, going full speed and rams straight into the side of the coastguards ship, smashing their own bough!
while the coastguard ship is only in need of a fresh coat of paint

Anti whale-hunt ship yells over the radio "mayday mayday" we are going under etc. then limps away from the scene. (coastguard doesent follow them)

(they called mayday and said they were sinking. but appeared in a port hundred of miles away still afloat)


seriously, who on earth can be more dumb than them?!

they even documented every lie, and violation they did on film. it's like witnessing agains yourself in court...

[Xkavar]

If Star Trek IV has taught us anything, it's that you never know what you'll desperately need on this planet. Whales may have some incredible significance to, for example, maintaining the ratio of ocean predators to prey, and if they're hunted indiscriminately something in that system may tip over.

[Golgo_13]

If whales are endangered, the mass hunting by the New England whalers in the 19th century might have contributed to it.

[Xkavar]

Don't forget the 19th century fishing vessels off the coast of Alaska, who were allowed to shoot any whale that interfered with their daily catch.

[digicross]

Several reasons that would made me on not to hunt whales for meat:

- God said so to me on not to eat whale meat. Of course for now, it's open season on whales.

- I have a condition that prohibit me to eat whale meat. Of course currently, it's open season on whales.

- I feel sympathetic toward the whales, though then again if I felt sympathetic to consumeable animals, I probably can't eat any meat from animals. Of course for now, it's open season on whales.

- The whale is a close friend of mine. Of course for now, it's open season on whales.

- I know for sure that the group of whales in front of me is THE last group of whales, I mean that if I'm not starving, I should let them go so that they can breed and their descendants could the potential of my future meal. Of course for now, it's open season on whales.

- I currently I don't want to eat whale meats. Well... Go on whales, be free... for now.

My primary reason is the last. Till I developed some sort of taste for whale meat, I have no interest on hunting those things.


Anyway. I heard that shark fins is quite delicious, maybe that would be the next poll should be "what is a valid reason not to hunt sharks for meat?"

Then again, I also heard that pigs are quite delicious, maybe the next next poll should be "what is a valid reason not to hunt or breed pigs for meat?"


It would be interesting though to have restaraunts named "Willy's", "Jaws", "Babe", and so on.



As for extinct species.

If there's one species extinct, then the whole system will balance itself. The question is, will you like the new balanced system?

If we humankind gone extinct, I'm sure that the whole system will balance itself.

Though so far, it seems that the reason that the nature exist now is for us to use it. Now really, I'm serious, it's as if the true reason that nature exist is so that we can use it. So if we are extinct, then nature basically lost its purpose to exist. So we must use nature, and we should it wisely just like on how we should do things wisely on other things.

Unfortunately, there's a group of people who wished for humankind to be gone for the 'benefit' of nature.

Though 'their' true reason might be because 'they' want the humankind to disappear so that 'they' can use nature only for 'themself'? How greedy, 'they' are trying to eat all the whale meats by 'themself'!



It should be noted that if the whales population in certain places dropped, it might have been not because they were endangered globally, it might have been that they just stop going to some places where they usually hang out. The ocean is a BIG place you know, around 3/4 of the Earth's surface is water.

And it should be noted that there are other reasons other than food on why whales were hunt.

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by digicross

Several reasons that would made me on not to hunt whales for meat: [...]

I hope you enjoy your dolphin mercury burgers then.

[mad pierrot]

I hope you enjoy your dolphin mercury burgers then.

That is the funniest thing I've heard all week.
Btw, I had Whale meat for the first time last night, and it was


TASTY

[Maciamo]

I would have chosen all the poll's option, but as it was only one choice, I went for endangered.

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by Maciamo

I would have chosen all the poll's option, but as it was only one choice, I went for endangered.

Hope you don't eat cod ;-)

[jerry4]

i guess the scientific community provided all the valid reasons one needs....

[duff_o_josh]

nooooo not cod, damn them! its so yummy. why are people against whale hunting, everything goes extinct from natural reasons. humans being a predator can cause extinction and it is natural, ofcourse we should be a bit conservitive with low numbers by why should we stop? its the natural process of evolution.

[Mamoru-kun]

Duff, with all due respect, your last message just made me sick... Fortunately, nobody tried to eat human meat, and say that it's tasty...
If really you -need- to eat meal (as I do), at least, -at least-, don't eat meat from spiecies almost extint, just for your -pleasure-...

[lexico]

Dang, you beat me to it, Mamoru-kun ! No, actually you're quite welcome, and thank you for a kind word for our cousins the whales !

Originally Posted by duff o josh

nooooo not cod, damn them! its so yummy. why are people against whale hunting, everything goes extinct from natural reasons. humans being a predator can cause extinction and it is natural, ofcourse we should be a bit conservitive with low numbers by why should we stop? its the natural process of evolution.

I can understand your lumper logic; it has certain merits that let one see what the splitters are missing. Whether they accept your extended usage or not, or course, is a completely different matter. One of the benefits would be logical consistency; projecting less of unnatural values onto nature that is impersonal by nature. One ideal society that might thrive on your idea would be pre-cultural or primitive societies before there were universally applicable ideas. Another would be anarchy. I could also say a cannibalistic society could accomodate the idea. Let-the-dog-eat-dog; who cares ?

I'd go for intelligence, endangered, cruelty, and food-poisoning, although the best reason should/could be because whales are cute and lovely. The last might be a bit hard because we don't communicate with them daily, but some people can partially decode whale signals. Love for whales, therefore, are more abstract and projecting rather than that of an interactive nature in which two satient beings share perception, ideas and feelings. There was an interesting Star Trek episode about whales crying for help... Perhaps the SETI project can learn a bit from studying whale communication. Yes !

Originally Posted by Sinspawne

a video of some "anti whale hunting" group trying to stop a whale hunt ship by any means.
...
Coastguard deploys a water-jet boat, and it drops sound charges in the
water as a further warning.

The sound charges; are they explosives that resemble a weapon in naval warfare ?

Anti whale-hunt ship yells over the radio (open channel) that the norwegian coastguard is trying to blow up their ship with explosives, and that they are taking in water !

Perhaps in their victimisation-mode of thinking, they really thought they were under genuine attack !

Coastguard tries to stop them once more by dragging a rope in front of them, to entangle the propellor.

Now the "activists" are panicking, o, dear !

(here it gets idiotic) they avoid the rope, going full speed and rams straight into the side of the coastguards ship, smashing their own bough !

We have seen what extremities paranoids would go to, to feel safer !

while the coastguard ship is only in need of a fresh coat of paint

Cruel reality !

Anti whale-hunt ship yells over the radio "mayday mayday" we are going under etc. then limps away from the scene. (coastguard doesent follow them)

This is interesting. In North America, "Mayday" is only used for air disaster, but perhaps "M'aidez" is used for water disasters also ? How about getting caught in a house or car swept away in a flood ? Or being in a bldg. in an earthquake ? Would people use "M'aidez" instead of SOS ?

(they called mayday and said they were sinking. but appeared in a port hundred of miles away still afloat)

That is hilarious !!! Love it !! Hahahaha...

seriously, who on earth can be more dumb than them ?!

If you haven't noticed, the "activist" kind (sorry if anyone did vounteer work as any kind of activist-- just one of my ignorant remarks as many others) aren't really the smartest kind; but they do help preserve a warm, tingling feeling that there is some good in this dog-eat-dog world.

they even documented every lie, and violation they did on film. it's like witnessing agains yourself in court...

I know what you mean; and they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble if they were people who worried about their public image. In fact, what could be better than being in the "victimised-mode" when trying to protect the whales ? Solidarity, my friend, was the key to bringing democracy to Poland. Oh, the memories !

[nurizeko]

If cows were endangered we wouldnt be allowed to hunt and eat them, delicacy smelicacy, whales are endangered and should and are off the menu.

[Mamoru-kun]

If cows were to desapear too, perhaps would it be time to finally create synthetic meat, or whatever it can be, without being forced to kill a living creature (except plants of course. Cut all those green things and trees! There's too much sssspiders there...beuuuuh ). No, seriously, wouldn't it be better (well, at least for our mind and/or soul)?

And amough all the suggestions of this topic (because they are cute, because they are almost instinct, because it's not good meat,...), I'm surprise not to see the most important one (well I mean, for me): because they just are living creatures, like us humans...

[duff_o_josh]

Originally Posted by Mamoru-kun

Duff, with all due respect, your last message just made me sick... Fortunately, nobody tried to eat human meat, and say that it's tasty...
If really you -need- to eat meal (as I do), at least, -at least-, don't eat meat from spiecies almost extint, just for your -pleasure-...

people eat things they like, some like burgers some like pasta some people like whale, maybe insteadof stopping whale hunting they just need to regulate how its done more carefully(i know they are trying). People dont just eat endagered whales, most places that i have been to in japan for whale are these small tiny fish that happen to be a whale? shouldnt i eat fish? people tend to push the extreme to stop people from enjoying something. i was talking with my friend and he said when he was in school and when he was young he had whale all the time, never beef. if one big whale can feed hundreds then so be it. Do you not value Humanity above animosity? sure we are animals, that just what scientist have said due to links through time.

Of course there are other ways....whats better, 100 cows dying, 1000 chickens or one whale? where is the difference?

[Mamoru-kun]

Sorry Duff, I just can't agree with you. Just because of pourcentages: killing one single wale if far more devastating than killing its equivalent mass of cows (even if 100 is perhaps not so far from the truth).

...but perhaps do I react that way because I don't know how tasts a wale (just kidding)

[duff_o_josh]

you also have to remember that most whale that is eaten in japan are small little whales, smaller then a sockeye salmon. Is that a big deal? the thing isnt cute, it doesnt make nuge noises. where is the harm in it?

[Mamoru-kun]

I didn't know that. Do you mean that it is another specie than the big wales we see at television, and that that specie is not endangered? If yes, I really beg you pardon...but if no, if those "small wales" are endangered too, or even worse, if those wales are childs of those big wales we see on television, for me it makes no difference: in a single way, don't touch animals (wether animals or their environment) if they are about to desapear, more especially if it's only for the human's pleasure.