つ

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 06:34

k, in my mangas i got, lots of sentances have つ in it, but in some words u dont say the "つ" part? can ne 1 explaine this?.. coz i dunno if i need to read it as: blah blah blah つ blah blah, or leave the つ out?! im lost.. ( i gues its a dumb question but it makes me confused.

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 14:53

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

k, in my mangas i got, lots of sentances have つ in it, but in some words u dont say the "つ" part?

Quoting a sentence or two would be a good start.

David Hallgren · Jul 26, 2004, 15:55

I agree with, PaulTB, a sample would be great. But without that my best guess is that you havn't noticed the size difference of the diffirent つs:
かった (Katta)
かつた (Katsuta, not a real word but I couldn't think of any example with real words) ^^

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 16:09

Originally Posted by David Hallgren

I agree with, PaulTB, a sample would be great. But without that my best guess is that you havn't noticed the size difference of the diffirent つs:
かった (Katta)
かつた (Katsuta, not a real word but I couldn't think of any example with real words) ^^

Ah yes highly likely.

Note also that there is no size difference in the つ's shown in furigana.

e.g.

かつて
勝手に

As an aside I'll note that in classical Japanese there is no difference in size in normal text.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 16:46

sorry, i couldnt write the sentance then.. i didnt tha mangas with me.

ah ****.. i forgot to bring them this time again.. but yeh they is a few sentances, i do see a slicht size difference tho. so if its a small tsu its silent kind of? so i guess i gotta look a bit closer when reading then.. thnx ppls

King of Tokyo · Jul 26, 2004, 17:09

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

sorry, i couldnt write the sentance then.. i didnt tha mangas with me.

ah ****.. i forgot to bring them this time again.. but yeh they is a few sentances, i do see a slicht size difference tho. so if its a small tsu its silent kind of? so i guess i gotta look a bit closer when reading then.. thnx ppls

Well, it's not so much silent, it's just it doubles the proceeding letter.. like David Hallgren showed.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 17:29

hm ic.. thanx..

so, for nissan (the car) you would write: にっさん　？？　（how do u write small symbols on computer? i had to copy and past the small tsu)

Mike Cash · Jul 26, 2004, 18:25

Forgive my normal brusqueness, but it's hard to believe that you have progressed to the level of actually reading stuff without ever having learned about the small "tsu". I'm guessing that you learn almost 100% through self-study and that this was just one of those things that fell through the cracks.

The way you write the small symbols? Try typing "nissan" while in Japanese IME mode. Just as it is there. n-i-s-s-a-n.

I don't know if you're also trying to pick up speaking/listening skills in addition to reading manga, but if you are, then you really need to learn about the small "tsu" and the role it plays in pronunciation. Properly pronouncing what is indicated by the small "tsu" and of elongated vowels tend to be two things that English speakers (at least) brush off and ignore. Which is very unfortunate, since it makes what they are saying very difficult to comprehend sometimes.

Also, if you are unable to recognize the difference in speech, it will cause you all sorts of problems with mishearing things.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 20:39

i basicly been self taught, along with a couple webpages for hiragana and katakana symbol table, a few japanese friends have taugt me some stuff to speek, but learning to read and write, i had basicly no help except from a sh1t loads of practice.. and ofcorse still practice everyday just to learn to read quicker and quicker.. i know jack all kanji, but i dont realy have much time to myself now that im in college, but i get enough practice. when i started reading manga, when i came to words with a small letter next to it i (may not belive me but..) i tried playing around how to say it (at this time i wasnt in college and i didnt know any japanese ppl or had the net or w/e) and eventually when i came to college i made friends with the ESOL students and double checked with them how i was reading was correct. but tsu confused me.. it just didnt sound right after a proper sized symbol.. so i always been stuck on that 1.. cant blame me for not getting it if i wasnt showen how to read it.. :/

but yeh, thnx alot for u ppls help. ^_^

i hope to go to japan after college, and learn more..

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 20:48

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

1.. cant blame me for not getting it if i wasnt showen how to read it.. :/

Yeah you only have your teacher to blame. Oh, wait.

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

i basicly been self taught

You know, you can get text books. In fact I'd expect you can get text books for free from your library.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 20:56

ok, i realy dont mean to sound like an *** now but, im in college, i can barely afford to go to it, my family is poor, its hard for me to learn japanese esp since my college is far in the country (new zealand remember) and it is about a 2 hr drive to the nearest town that has a book shop or a libary.. i use what little kas i got to come here (internet room)and try to learn as much japanese as i can. (not trying to sound like an *** or sumthing) but it is hard having a) not much money b) being far away from any good shops c) not having much time to learn japanese with my studys and d) learning how to do this stuff pretty much by myself.

sorry if it sounds stupid to you ppl, but where im from is hard to get by. and with what little spare time and money i have.. i learn japanese. (go ahead and laugh and think its all bullshit or w/e..)

oops,, kas = kash (cash) :/

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 21:38

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

ok, i realy dont mean to sound like an *** now but, im in college

Your college doesn't have a library? Even when I was back in Comprehensive School you could make book purchase suggestions - they'd probably look favourably on an educational book even if they may not be able to handle inter-library loans. Seriously you should check it out.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 21:42

accucally my school dosnt have a libary, its not like the big flash americian schools or w/e.. its just a small place, the place relys on donations to keep it going, and new buildings...

because of this its expencive, but the qualifications (dunno how to spell) are worth it.

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 21:48

Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru

accucally my school dosnt have a libary

Well what can I say but - That sucks.

I've already given away all my early Japanese text books and dictionaries otherwise I'd offer to send you some.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 26, 2004, 21:50

yeh, like i said, i really am not trying to sound like a dick about it.. but its all truth.. i g2g now ne ways.. cya

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 21:53

This
http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/Download.htm
is about the closest I could find to an actual text book online.

Mike Cash · Jul 26, 2004, 22:04

Do the best you can with whatever resources you can manage to scrounge together, Dan. Everybody is in a different situation when it comes to availability of materials and teachers, and I think it's easy for us to lose sight of that sometimes.

PaulTB · Jul 26, 2004, 22:31

Originally Posted by mikecash

I think it's easy for us to lose sight of that sometimes.

Yeah, frankly I thought New Zealand was better than that.

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 27, 2004, 06:04

yeh it is.. but not in the part im in.. lol.. im from the city origionaly, but my school is in the country.. and thnx for the webpage..

this is pretty good page i think..

Mayuka · Jul 28, 2004, 01:12

Hello, Daniel!

I was more or less in the same predicament as you are before I took a class. (I'm not in college yet.) My local library had a grand total of two books on Japanese, and after working through them, I found that they didn't teach me all that much.

Well, desperate people get resourceful.

I found a lot of places online. I typed them out on another post.

Good luck!

KickAss_Danieru · Jul 28, 2004, 05:16

oo cool.. thnx

... looks like these could help alot..

wow.. especially http://www3.telus.net/public/vua/ . good for remembering the symbols

thnx alot.

Jul 26, 2004, 06:34	#1
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	つ k, in my mangas i got, lots of sentances have つ in it, but in some words u dont say the "つ" part? can ne 1 explaine this?.. coz i dunno if i need to read it as: blah blah blah つ blah blah, or leave the つ out?! im lost.. ( i gues its a dumb question but it makes me confused. __________________ じゃまた、ダニエル

Jul 26, 2004, 14:53	#2
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru k, in my mangas i got, lots of sentances have つ in it, but in some words u dont say the "つ" part? Quoting a sentence or two would be a good start.

Jul 26, 2004, 16:09	#4
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by David Hallgren I agree with, PaulTB, a sample would be great. But without that my best guess is that you havn't noticed the size difference of the diffirent つs: かった (Katta) かつた (Katsuta, not a real word but I couldn't think of any example with real words) ^^ Ah yes highly likely. Note also that there is no size difference in the つ's shown in furigana. e.g. かつて勝手に As an aside I'll note that in classical Japanese there is no difference in size in normal text.

Jul 26, 2004, 17:09	#6
King of Tokyo The Funky Homosapien. Join Date: Dec 7, 2003 Location: Torontokyo, Japanada Age: 6 Posts: 704	Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru sorry, i couldnt write the sentance then.. i didnt tha mangas with me. ah ****.. i forgot to bring them this time again.. but yeh they is a few sentances, i do see a slicht size difference tho. so if its a small tsu its silent kind of? so i guess i gotta look a bit closer when reading then.. thnx ppls Well, it's not so much silent, it's just it doubles the proceeding letter.. like David Hallgren showed. __________________ America, land of opportunity, mirages and camouflages - more than usually Speakin loudly, sayin nothin, you confusin me, you losin me Your game is twisted, want me enlisted - in your usary Foolishly, most men join the ranks cluelessly Buffoonishly accept the deception, believe the perception

Jul 26, 2004, 20:48	#10
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru 1.. cant blame me for not getting it if i wasnt showen how to read it.. :/ Yeah you only have your teacher to blame. Oh, wait. Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru i basicly been self taught You know, you can get text books. In fact I'd expect you can get text books for free from your library.

Jul 26, 2004, 15:55	#3
David Hallgren New comer Join Date: Mar 2, 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 95	I agree with, PaulTB, a sample would be great. But without that my best guess is that you havn't noticed the size difference of the diffirent つs: かった (Katta) かつた (Katsuta, not a real word but I couldn't think of any example with real words) ^^

Jul 26, 2004, 16:46	#5
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	sorry, i couldnt write the sentance then.. i didnt tha mangas with me. ah ****.. i forgot to bring them this time again.. but yeh they is a few sentances, i do see a slicht size difference tho. so if its a small tsu its silent kind of? so i guess i gotta look a bit closer when reading then.. thnx ppls

Jul 26, 2004, 17:29	#7
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	hm ic.. thanx.. so, for nissan (the car) you would write: にっさん　？？　（how do u write small symbols on computer? i had to copy and past the small tsu)

Jul 26, 2004, 18:25	#8
Mike Cash Delusions of Adequacy Join Date: Mar 15, 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 5,417	Forgive my normal brusqueness, but it's hard to believe that you have progressed to the level of actually reading stuff without ever having learned about the small "tsu". I'm guessing that you learn almost 100% through self-study and that this was just one of those things that fell through the cracks. The way you write the small symbols? Try typing "nissan" while in Japanese IME mode. Just as it is there. n-i-s-s-a-n. I don't know if you're also trying to pick up speaking/listening skills in addition to reading manga, but if you are, then you really need to learn about the small "tsu" and the role it plays in pronunciation. Properly pronouncing what is indicated by the small "tsu" and of elongated vowels tend to be two things that English speakers (at least) brush off and ignore. Which is very unfortunate, since it makes what they are saying very difficult to comprehend sometimes. Also, if you are unable to recognize the difference in speech, it will cause you all sorts of problems with mishearing things.

Jul 26, 2004, 20:39	#9
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	i basicly been self taught, along with a couple webpages for hiragana and katakana symbol table, a few japanese friends have taugt me some stuff to speek, but learning to read and write, i had basicly no help except from a sh1t loads of practice.. and ofcorse still practice everyday just to learn to read quicker and quicker.. i know jack all kanji, but i dont realy have much time to myself now that im in college, but i get enough practice. when i started reading manga, when i came to words with a small letter next to it i (may not belive me but..) i tried playing around how to say it (at this time i wasnt in college and i didnt know any japanese ppl or had the net or w/e) and eventually when i came to college i made friends with the ESOL students and double checked with them how i was reading was correct. but tsu confused me.. it just didnt sound right after a proper sized symbol.. so i always been stuck on that 1.. cant blame me for not getting it if i wasnt showen how to read it.. :/ but yeh, thnx alot for u ppls help. ^_^ i hope to go to japan after college, and learn more..

Jul 26, 2004, 20:56	#11
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	ok, i realy dont mean to sound like an * now but, im in college, i can barely afford to go to it, my family is poor, its hard for me to learn japanese esp since my college is far in the country (new zealand remember) and it is about a 2 hr drive to the nearest town that has a book shop or a libary.. i use what little kas i got to come here (internet room)and try to learn as much japanese as i can. (not trying to sound like an * or sumthing) but it is hard having a) not much money b) being far away from any good shops c) not having much time to learn japanese with my studys and d) learning how to do this stuff pretty much by myself. sorry if it sounds stupid to you ppl, but where im from is hard to get by. and with what little spare time and money i have.. i learn japanese. (go ahead and laugh and think its all bullshit or w/e..) oops,, kas = kash (cash) :/

Jul 26, 2004, 21:38	#12
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru ok, i realy dont mean to sound like an *** now but, im in college Your college doesn't have a library? Even when I was back in Comprehensive School you could make book purchase suggestions - they'd probably look favourably on an educational book even if they may not be able to handle inter-library loans. Seriously you should check it out.

Jul 26, 2004, 21:42	#13
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	accucally my school dosnt have a libary, its not like the big flash americian schools or w/e.. its just a small place, the place relys on donations to keep it going, and new buildings... because of this its expencive, but the qualifications (dunno how to spell) are worth it.

Jul 26, 2004, 21:48	#14
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by KickAss_Danieru accucally my school dosnt have a libary Well what can I say but - That sucks. I've already given away all my early Japanese text books and dictionaries otherwise I'd offer to send you some.

Jul 26, 2004, 21:50	#15
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	yeh, like i said, i really am not trying to sound like a dick about it.. but its all truth.. i g2g now ne ways.. cya

Jul 26, 2004, 21:53	#16
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	This http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/Download.htm is about the closest I could find to an actual text book online.

Jul 26, 2004, 22:04	#17
Mike Cash Delusions of Adequacy Join Date: Mar 15, 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 5,417	Do the best you can with whatever resources you can manage to scrounge together, Dan. Everybody is in a different situation when it comes to availability of materials and teachers, and I think it's easy for us to lose sight of that sometimes.

Jul 26, 2004, 22:31	#18
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by mikecash I think it's easy for us to lose sight of that sometimes. Yeah, frankly I thought New Zealand was better than that.

Jul 27, 2004, 06:04	#19
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	yeh it is.. but not in the part im in.. lol.. im from the city origionaly, but my school is in the country.. and thnx for the webpage.. this is pretty good page i think..

Jul 28, 2004, 01:12	#20
Mayuka is it an altoid? Join Date: Jun 26, 2004 Location: Baw-stun Posts: 6	Hello, Daniel! I was more or less in the same predicament as you are before I took a class. (I'm not in college yet.) My local library had a grand total of two books on Japanese, and after working through them, I found that they didn't teach me all that much. Well, desperate people get resourceful. I found a lot of places online. I typed them out on another post. Good luck!

Jul 28, 2004, 05:16	#21
KickAss_Danieru =Danieru= Join Date: May 12, 2004 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 52	oo cool.. thnx ... looks like these could help alot.. wow.. especially http://www3.telus.net/public/vua/ . good for remembering the symbols thnx alot.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode